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CNN Live Event/Special
Sources: Shooter Was Outside Trump Rally Venue. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 13, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: But the Secret Service did shoot and killed the shooter who was outside it of the venue. And it answers some of the questions and the concerns that you've heard on our air in the last hour is, obviously, everybody who goes into that venue, Anderson, has to go through a magnetometer. So, this person clearly didn't do that. They were able to fire a shot or a multiple shots according to Secret Service from outside of the venue.
[21:00:06]
Again, that's part of this investigation that is now stretching obviously with the FBI, the Secret Service, ATF, everybody is now investigating this.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yeah. Evan, thanks very much. We're going to continue checking with you. We have some new video of the motorcade leaving -- before I do that, I just want to reset where we are at the top of the hour and is about 9:00 here on the East Coast.
Donald Trump is safe, is said to be fine. He has put out a statement.
I want to show you the video, which we have been analyzing and watching. This occurred around 6:15 p.m. in Butler County in Pennsylvania. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's a little bit old, that chart. That chart's a couple of months old. And if you want to really see something that said, take a look what happened --
(GUNSHOTS)
(INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
SECRET SERVICE: Are we good?
Shooter's down. We're good to move.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Let me get my shoes. Let me get my shoes.
(INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Wait.
(INAUDIBLE)
(CHANTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: As I said, former President Trump has put out a statement saying, I want to thank the United States Secret Service and all the law enforcement for the rapid response and the shooting that just took place in Butler, Pennsylvania. Most importantly, I want to extend my condolences to the family of the person at the rally who was killed, and also to the family of another person that was badly injured.
It is incredible that such an act could take place in our country. Nothing is known at this time about the shooter who is now dead. I was shot with the bullet that pierced the upper part in my right ear. I knew immediately that something was wrong and that I heard whizzing sound shots and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin. Much bleeding took place. So I realized then what was happening.
God bless America, he wrote.
CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is a trauma neurosurgeon. He joins us now.
Sanjay, obviously, I mean, if the bullet pierced the upper part of his ear, that is extraordinarily close to a shot that could have killed him.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. No doubt. And even though it appears that it was mostly the year and the soft tissue around the ear, you know, when you're in the hospital after something like this, you have to sort of evaluate the possibility that they may have still caused a skull fracture or something else, significant blow to that part of the head.
Looks like he's doing fine and I think it's been about three hours now since the shooting. We haven't heard anything more from the medical officials, so that obviously is good news.
When you watch that Anderson, a couple of things. First of all, after you hear the bangs and the president, the former president raises his hand to his ear. He then seems to go down on his own. That was one important thing. He's covered up by the agents there who are protecting him, but also probably doing a little bit of what is called the secondary evaluation, making sure or trying to the determinant least at that point if there are any other injuries.
We see what we see. But it doesn't mean that something else couldn't have happened as well in a situation like that. The president stands up, he's raising his right hand. He seems to be
walking on his own. Again, surrounded by the Secret Service agents, but walking on his own -- those are all very important signs.
But from a medical standpoint, from a trauma standpoint, getting a full evaluation still.
[21:05:04]
You don't know what you don't know in these situations. Sometimes people can have injuries that are unrecognized at that point. And by the way, besides the former president, people at the rally as well, you can have people who are walking wounded, may not actually fully recognize that they have been injured. So that -- those evaluations need to take place.
But I think now, given that its been again around just under three hours, that if there had been any other secondary injuries are unrecognized injuries from the scene, they should have -- they would have likely found those by now, X-rays, perhaps a CT Scan, really examining the president all over to make sure again, there wasn't another injury from -- you know, whether it was bullet or secondary projectiles, whatever it may have been, that probably would've all happened by now Anderson, if again, we don't know the extent of how much -- where in the ER and things like that, it is it possible that would require would that just heal on its own, would require some sort of follow up, you know, cosmetic surgery.
It may, you know, I was looking at some those images and they're kind of -- I mean, they're disturbing to look at, those close-up images, you can get a sense of the trajectory of the projectile, stitches that would be necessary, what did it do to his inner ear, would it cause problems longer-term with hearing, things like that, balance difficulties. We don't know.
I think the biggest thing at this point is trying to figure out, was there any other secondary, more dramatic or significant injury? Hopefully not. But that's I think the main thing.
But my guess is there will probably be follow up necessary, if for nothing else, just for the cosmetic injury to the ear. But again, this can be very serious. I mean, there could be a skull fracture underneath that injury. There could be damage to the year itself, the inner ear.
So they -- they may have evaluated a lot of that already you can do those sorts of evaluations pretty quickly, but it's got to be complete. You can't just go based on what you see here. You have to sort of, you know, do a full evaluation to make sure you're not missing something here. That's something the patient, in this case, the former president, may not even recognize themselves in these sort of -- with all the sort of -- all that's happening in that moment, there's things that can be missed and that's why the medical team has to be so thorough.
COOPER: Yeah, Sanjay, I appreciate it. Thank you. I want to go back to Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Yeah. Let's not forget that Trump is in his late 70s right now and he's an elderly man that could have an impact on his recovery from all of this as well.
Anderson, thank you very much.
We have some new video just coming into CNN right now. I'm going to show it to our viewers. Video of a motorcade leaving Butler Memorial Hospital where the former president who has cared for, we do not know if he was in it.
CNN's Betsy Klein is on the scene for us over there.
What are you learning, Betsy?
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Wolf, we are outside Butler Memorial Hospital. That's about seven miles away from the site where this rally was, where former President Donald Trump was shot about, and about ten minutes ago, 8:54 p.m., there had been road closures here and there was significant motorcade activity. We saw about 30 vehicles that included an ambulance, multiple motorcycles, multiple SUVs, law enforcement vehicles.
We do not know if former President Trump was in that motorcade, but what we do know is that the significant police presence that has been on site for the last few hours outside of this hospital. And the tactical teams, local law enforcement tactical teams are now gone.
And now notably, this movement happen moments after Trump posted on Truth Social, saying he was shot in with a bullet that pierce the upper part of my right year. He said he knew immediately that something was its wrong. He heard a whizzing sound shots and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin. He said much bleeding took place and then he realized what was happening.
And when we saw with that video of the former president being shot as he was speaking, it was shocking. But what wasn't shocking is what Secret Service did in the immediate aftermath immediately getting him to safety.
The U.S. Secret Service trains and prepares for this exact type of scenario. And about seven days in advance of any movement of a Secret Service protectee, whether that's a president or a former president, first lady, Secret Service teams get there in advance and they plan for this exact type of thing. They know exactly where the nearest trauma center is, where the nearest hospital and know the exact motorcade route to that hospital.
So they are prepared for this type of scenario and this is what we believe to have seen playing out right here.
BLITZER: Yeah, thank God for the U.S. Secret Service. They do amazing, amazing work protecting presidents, former presidents, and all sorts of other individuals as well. Betsy Klein, thank you very much for that.
Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: Yeah, Wolf.
CNN's Alayna Treene was at the rally. She's still outside the rally site and joins us now with some new information.
[21:10:01]
Alayna, talk about anything you've newly learned and then I want to talk about what you saw at the time.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Anderson, right now, we are outside where it currently in front of an area. You can see behind me there's a very heavy police presence around this area. We walked over here from the rally location.
This is building behind me is just outside where the rally was and we came over because we noticed this very massive police presence. I counted at least a dozen police cars, one ambulance, some of the police cars were with the sheriff's office, some were with state troopers.
I spoke to one off for certain asked him what was the focus. Why is the police so heavily focused on this area? They would not tell me the exact reasoning. And so, we're standing by here to see what exactly is happening here.
And then for your question, Anderson, just about the rally, I've spoken with many people. We were inside, but I've spoken with mentally attendees who were inside as well. All of them telling me how shaken up they are, how harrowing that experience was.
It was very chaotic inside the venue at the time, I can tell you. It was very unclear what was happening. Donald Trump has just a few minutes into his remarks when we started to hear loud banging from the right side of the stage. And that's when everyone was told to get down. People were screaming.
I know you have some video of that, but -- very, very scary experience and also just to -- I forgot something want to share with you. So we know from three sources that the shooter was from outside of the venue, and so we're kind of scoping out the scene outside of the perimeter of the rally to figure out as much so we can -- Anderson.
COOPER: Do you have a sense of how far the location where the shooter was -- was from the stage itself at this point?
TREENE: It's hard to say. I've spoken with many people who are on the ground who told me that they had witnessed Donald Trump and his team have very heavy Secret Service at every single rally, there were snipers that I saw myself on top of a red building inside the perimeter of where the venue was. The people that I've spoken with said they'd seen some of the snipers pointing their guns outside of the rally. So again, we know that the shooter was from outside. It's very clear how far.
We're trying to get as much information as we can. Part of that's why part of why were looking at every area that has such a heavy police presence, like the one behind me, but were still getting those details, Anderson, I'll try to bring them to you as we learn more.
COOPER: All right. Alayna Treene, thank you.
Evan Perez has some new reporting, in the number of wounded understand, which has now grown.
Evan, what have you learned?
PEREZ: Right, Anderson. Well, in addition to the additional person, the person who was -- who was killed, there were two people who are -- who have suffered injuries as a result of this incident. So, obviously, now, that is part of this investigation, one of the things that you see happening behind the scene, behind where Alayna was standing is the Secret Service, the FBI, the other law enforcement agencies are now going about doing the crime scene work, the work trying to gather whatever evidence they can.
That appears to be the building from where the shots were fired. There are photos that are circulating that appear to show a body on top of a roof. Again, that matches what the Secret Service has said in their statements, just in the last few minutes saying that a person fired multiple shots at the former president from a location that is from a raise location outside of the venue where the rally was happening. Again, that seems to match what Alayna is watching right there behind her. So that's what we know at this hour. Anderson,
The other thing that I think this raises obviously, is the ongoing investigation. They're going to -- they know exactly who this person is by that by now and they're going to do the necessary work to figure out everything about that person's background, to find out any political beliefs, obviously, any anything that could explain the motivations given the fact that we do not have a suspect alive now at this point according to the Secret Service.
So, now, the work is going to be done the hard way, Anderson, which is to gather evidence from that person's background.
COOPER: So, Evan, just briefly, just clarify, it's one -- on rally killed, and now you've learned two -- have others have been wounded. That's correct?
PEREZ: We're wounded. That's according to the Secret Service statement.
COOPER: So, none of that includes the gunman himself.
PEREZ: Right, exactly. The gunman was a separate person who's been killed by the Secret Service. COOPER: All right. Evan Perez, thank you.
John Miller has new reporting about the shooter. Let's go to him.
John, what have you learned?
John Miller, can you hear me?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I can hear you, Anderson.
[21:15:00]
What we're learning now from law -- you can hear me, all right?
COOPER: Yes, now. Go ahead.
MILLER: What we're hearing from law enforcement sources now is that an individual was seen walking through the field by people who were outside the rally.
People outside the rally couldn't see, but they could hear. So they had gathered in this field --
COOPER: We're having trouble --
MILLER: They see him on the roof.
COOPER: John, we'll talk to you. We'll talk to him shortly.
Tim Naftali, you're joining us here in New York, presidential historian.
Obviously, this is not something there was the attack on Steve Scalise. We have seen obviously a number of threats that has been intercepted by law enforcement over the years, but probably not since Ronald Reagan at the presidential level, has this appeared.
TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Not since Ronald Reagan, but I want to read you something that I think is as powerful today as it was the first time it was written. Tonight, this nation faces once again the consequences of lawlessness, hatred, and unreasoned in its midst. It would be wrong. It would be self deceptive to ignore the connection between that lawlessness and hatred and this act of violence.
That was Lyndon Johnson in June of 1968.
A few years later, another presidential candidate was attacked. In 1972, George Wallace was gunned down. He survived, but he was paralyzed.
We have had very violent political contests before, and it's something we ought to remember. We are capable of this as a nation. The people who do it, of course, are outliers, but they are a product of the extremism and the anger and the hatred that sometime pulses through our elections.
So, tonight is a terrible reminder of another period in our history. But it's something that seems to be bred in the bone and I can understand Scott's anger and sadness. I feel it, too. I feel it for everyone. I feel it for everyone in our country because the gunman attacked democracy.
When you use a gun to eliminate a choice for the American people, you are shooting democracy. You are playing god. And this is not the first time it has been done in our history. I hope it's the last but one cannot say, but it is one of those moments when we are reminded that our democracy is fragile, and that we as a people need to come together, understand that our past has been violent, and recognize that we have to stand up now and try to end the violence. This is a wakeup call.
COOPER: Also joining us is CNN senior political commentator David Axelrod.
David, your thoughts?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: -- agree more with what Tim just said. You know, I lived through as a young guy. I remember very clearly that era of violence and assassination in this country, and it was stunning then.
We haven't really experienced at much yet, but we lately, but we have experienced political violence of different sort, not an assassination attempt of a president or a presidential candidate, but others.
And we do need to take this as a inflection point where we ask ourselves, is this where we want to go, where we don't settle our differences peacefully, where we settle them through violence? You know, our system is set up so that we debate our differences and we sell them at the polling place. That's how it should be. That's how democracy function.
And so we don't know what motivated this shooter yet, and we shouldn't jump to conclusions. John Hinckley, who shot Ronald Reagan was disturbed and this seems like a more sophisticated attempt.
But the other element of this in addition to how close we came to an assassination of the candidate here were the people who were attending this rally. You know, my initiation into politics was at a political tickle rally when I was 5-years-old. John F. Kennedy campaigning in my in my housing development in New York City and that's what inspired me to politics.
Never would have occurred to me or the folks, or my folks, or the people who took me and that somehow that was a dangerous place to be.
[21:20:05]
And so, it's profoundly sad. I mean, whatever you think of what was -- what the president -- the former president said that rally or what -- you know, what brought people there and so on, that is -- that is not a place where people who bring their children should feel unsafe.
So I think it's a -- this is a bracing moment for our country and hopefully a moment for reflection where everybody kind of pulls back from the abyss so that we don't see this as a recurring event.
COOPER: David, from the president United States, Joe Biden, has -- we're told that campaign has stopping TV ads for the time being. I mean, the convention -- the Republican convention is supposed to begin on Monday. Unclear if this will impact that one way or for the other, and I guess impossible at this point to, you know, where the campaigns go. What does the tone and the tenor shift?
Obviously, there's going to be, you know, a lot of finger pointing, a lot of vitriol, and I'm not sure any sign that that will end.
AXELROD: No. I mean, there's so much at stake in this -- in any elections, certainly in this election, and it's been a pretty bitter election to start with. And I don't know actually where it goes from here, Anderson. I mean, eventually, the campaign will resume.
But the fact that this happened on the doorstep of a convention has to change the nature of that convention in some way. You know, the fact that -- I mean, I'm sure the president, assuming that he is up to attending and I assume he will be will be greeted, you know, as a kind of martyr of this event, you know, and it will -- I think there'll be -- it'll be -- it could be angrier or it could be more somber.
But it's certainly not going to be the same.
COOPER: CNN senior political commentator, David Axelrod, presidential historian Tim Naftali, thank you.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Anderson, I want to go to CNN's Randi Kaye. She's just outside of Trump Tower in Manhattan in New York right now.
What are you seeing there, Randi?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, that attempt on the former president's life may have happened in Pennsylvania, but it is reverberating waiting here in New York City. We are outside Trump tower where there is an increased police presence.
Of course, there was always a police presence here at Trump Tower because the former president does come here from time to time. But if you take a look behind me here, there's about eight or eight to ten police officers here, heavily armed police officers.
We are told that this is out of an abundance of caution. There was a small crowd gathering here as well, pretty peaceful, some supporters, others just coming here to see what is going on.
But we understand from the spokesperson for the New York City mayor, Mayor Eric Adams, that the mayor has been briefed on the situation, that he is praying for the safety of the former president, but out of an abundance of caution, as I said, they have increased police patrols here at Trump Tower and elsewhere around the city that.
Those other areas include 40 Wall Street, also Foley Square, which is also known as Federal Plaza. That's an area where a lot of people tend to come and protest. That was the area for occupy Wall Street years ago. But and then, of course, City Hall is also under an increase presence of police officers, tonight, again, out of an abundance of caution, but they do want to make sure that it remains peaceful and that this remains safe for all -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Randi, thank you very much.
Out of an abundance of caution, I'm sure there's going to be increased security. All over the place, not just at Trump rallies, but at Biden rallies and elsewhere as well. And let's not forget this Republican convention is supposed to begin Monday, Monday in Milwaukee. The Democratic convention, a couple of weeks later in August in Chicago.
Security was already very, very intense for both of these conventions. But guess what? It's about to get even stronger right now.
Let's bring back CNN's John Miller.
John, give us a sense of what's going on right now from a security perspective, because this investigation into what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania, just three hours or so ago is only just beginning.
MILLER: Well, that's right, Wolf. And what they are -- as the story has developing, what I'm getting from my law enforcement sources is that people saw this individual with camouflage pants walking through the field with a rifle. They saw him again on the rooftop of this one story low, low building.
This is outside the rally, outside the fence. You couldn't see into the rally from the ground, but its possible that from his elevated position, he could see into the rally.
[21:25:02]
From there, it appears at some point either stood up where he knelt, are became visible to take those shots.
On the audio, we hear those two or three shots pop, pop, and then there is a second and a and-a-half and then you hear five to seven shots, which apparently is the counter sniper team from for the Secret Service, taking him out.
Now, Wolf, as was already pointed out, were too early into this to peel back those layers, but the obvious questions now are, how did an individual walked through the fields outside the rally? Was that posted? Did police become aware of its presence and when he got to that roof, why was he or was he spotted by the other counter sniper team? Is there some confusion as to because he was dressed in camouflage and carrying a long gun, whether or not he was with local law enforcement or another team. We won't know that for some time, but we do know he got that elevated position. He fired presumably at former President Donald Trump, killing one individual in the audience, critically wounding two others.
And as you see, President Trump's wound -- is that a graze wound that crossed over the top of his ear, is it a ricochet or a fragment of a long before bullets that hit something else and struck him above the year, that's something that well know from the medical people later.
These things can be confusion. You remember, Wolf, when Ronald Reagan was shot, they threw him into the presidential limousine as the assassin was attempting to shoot him. And it wasn't shot by the assassin's bullet. He was hit by a ricochet of the assassin's bullet off the bulletproof doors. So they'll have to sort through that.
What we do know is he was conscious, he was alert, he was speaking, he was interacting with the agencies, as Sanjay said they could tell he was not in critical condition in that moment. And what happens then, Wolf, is the presidential motorcade is stacked to wait, one, there's the long motorcade, that can be 30, some odd vehicles. And two, there's the short motorcade.
That's what you're looking at right now. He's going into that, which is the escort cars, the president's vehicle, the follow-up car, the counter assault team that travels with him, the people who carry the football and the communications. It's a much shorter motorcade because they are getting out of dodge. They're getting to that hospital as rapidly as possible. They want to get him evaluated and the rest of the presidential package catches up later. And that's what we saw today as that group of cars was arriving at the hospital to get him immediately evaluated.
Now, the question is who is this suspect? First question is, do they know is he carrying ID? Hasn't been verified? If he wasn't, have they done the live scan fingerprints? Do they have that ID? If they do, are they moving towards that residents for the search warrants?
There are scores of things that are happening in the background right now.
BLITZER: One -- one quick question before I let you go, John, and you used to work at the NYPD, so you've seen these kinds of incidents, shooting incidents during the course of your career? In his statement, Donald Trump just said and I'm quoting him now, I was shot with a bullet, pierced the upper part of my right ear.
Now, if someone is shot with a bullet that pierces the upper part of your right ear, wouldn't that bullet also continue onto someone's skull and create much more day, a much more dangerous situation?
MILLER: So that's a great question, Wolf, and, you know what the intent of a shooter with a rifle and attempted assassination is to get that bullet to go into the head and across.
What may have happened here is that either the way the former president turned or the angle that shooter had on that shot, it may have just graze the outside, piercing the skin, and carrying on.
What's going to be really interesting -- and this is how were going to know whether it was hit by ricochet or a fragment, or a graze wound is what did they recover from that wound? Is there a piece of a metal jacket from around that was fired that they have that they took out of the president where that cut is above the ear, or did the projectile continue on? That's why they cleared that area.
And they did that at the expense of there were literally hundreds and hundreds of eyewitnesses that they want to interview. But they also wanted to reserve that that crime scene and get those ballistics and connected to that weapon, and get all the evidence they could.
BLITZER: Yeah. Good point indeed, a lot of investigation will be needed.
[21:30:03]
And Trump added that he immediately felt that the bullet ripping through the skin, much bleeding took place. So I realized then what was happening.
I mean, a lot of -- a lot of bleeding, the bullet ripping through the skin could have been god forbid, a lot worse. Indeed, John Miller, thank you very much.
Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: Wolf, thanks.
It is about 9:30 p.m. here on the East Coast. This occurred around 615 p.m. in Butler, Pennsylvania.
If you're just joining us, I'm going to be playing the -- what the former president's, how this began, the foreign president making remarks shortly into the beginning of this campaign appearance. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's a little bit old, that chart. That chart's a couple of months old. And if you want to really see something that said, take a look what happened --
(GUNSHOTS)
(INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
SECRET SERVICE: Are we good?
Shooter's down. We're good to move.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Let me get my shoes. Let me get my shoes.
(INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Wait.
(INAUDIBLE)
(CHANTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: CNN primetime anchors Kaitlan Collins and Abby Phillip are here with me.
Kaitlan, I know you've been talking to sources.
What's the latest you're hearing?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE: The entire campaign apparatus is just deeply rattled. A lot of people have not been able had to have a chance to speak with the former president directly. A few of them have, obviously, we heard from him himself, but even his children just a few brief moments on the phone with him. We've heard from most of them so far, all obviously, still processing this.
I mean, obviously, every president is hyper aware of their security and their surroundings ever since what happened to President Reagan. And also JFK, Donald Trump himself is also one of those. I mean, I've been to dozens of these rallies.
This is outside obviously, the security perimeter is different, but you go through Secret Service security to go into any rally like this. You go through a magnetometer. You have that instance.
I should note what I'm hearing from a lot of them its questions about the security here and what happened and how something like this could happen because it does seem on thinkable I think.
And the House Oversight Chair James Comer just put out a statement saying that he has reached out to Secret Service director. He is requesting briefings. We are going to see action on Capitol Hill as a result of this, even though we are very much still learning so much of this.
But I also spoke with people who were there. I'm not going to say the name of one of the people always on the phone with just because they had to get off very quickly. So I don't want to disclose our identity, but they were right up there near the front when this happened and they said you could see Trump react as obviously as he says, now, it was a bullet grazed his ear and you can hear the panic in his voice in those first few moments and the audio where he said, let me get my shoes, let me get my shoes. And then he's whisked off stage.
He pumped his fist as you can see here in this photo right now, I was told that as he was taken down into the motorcade before he was taken to the hospital there in Butler, Pennsylvania. He pumped his fist again and had this defiant stance reacting in the moment to what happened. He has left the hospital, but a lot of people obviously are still just trying to get in touch with him, and to talk to him in the aftermath of this.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Yeah. I mean, it is inconceivable that something like this could have happened. I mean, I've covered President Obama, President Trump, candidates, even at outdoor rallies.
[21:35:01]
In fact, especially at outdoor rallies, the kind of security that they would have the perimeter, not just where people are going, but all the buildings surrounding it.
There's a reason that that whole apparatus is supposed to extend even beyond just the rally itself. And it's because of this country's long dark history with exactly this scenario.
COOPER: They have counter snipers who are with binoculars scanning all others --
PHILLIP: Scanning all over, usually on top of those very buildings and so I mean, this is not unfortunately, as Tim said, not a new scenario for this country. In fact, it is a scenario that's played out too many times in this country. And the Secret Service is deeply aware of that every single time that a protectee is comes even close to an incident like this. It's something the thing that sets off an incredible amount of soul searching within the organization. And I'm sure this one will, too, but for the country tonight.
You know, I think so many people on -- it doesn't matter where you are in the political spectrum, I'm hearing from them obviously tonight. People are stunned and they're worried. They're worried about what is going to happen in this country.
We still have some four months before the end of this election. And this is occurring before a major political event. There is a lot of fear in the country right now about what this portends and also what it says about where we are.
COOPER: And you think, I mean, it's -- you know, there's Reagan, but Steve Scalise or Nancy Pelosi --
PHILLIP: Yeah, Gabby Giffords, who put a statement tonight as well.
COOPER: Gabby Giffords as well.
PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, we've seen these incidents before, but there's something, Anderson, particular about it happening in the context of a presidential campaign. It's a sign, as President Biden said tonight, of a sickness in the contrary that someone thought to take a step to alter or affect the outcome of a presidential election with an act like this, and for the people who are watching tonight, who are wondering what this means -- I mean, they are right to wonder because I think we all have to be prepared for a lot of chaos ahead. But I also think it's a moment for the country to decide right now
what kind of country we live in and whether or not this is the kind of thing that is going to really change how we conduct ourselves. I mean, I think it is still within the power of if you patriotic citizens in this country to push back against this kind of darkness.
COLLINS: And just on the security aspect of this, there were counter snipers there. You can see them in videos because there is a building behind. Obviously, this is -- he's in Butler County. This is deep Trump country, but there's a building that you can see that was behind where Trump is out on the stage. You can see it in the photos the people who were there took in the videos that they took.
You see the counter snipers on there. You can see them anytime Trump is somewhere, you often see them. I think also the question and what were hearing tonight, you've mentioned the Republican convention that is starting in Milwaukee on Monday, where Trump and many of his surrogates were slated to travel to as soon as tomorrow, we are told it is still expected to go before and well see if that changes as the as the night progresses and as this investigation is getting underway.
But security was already an issue there. The footprint, the RNC wanted it to be wider than what it was. I do think this is only going to make it and the Democratic Convention in Chicago and a month from now, only even more intense as they're learning more about this.
COOPER: I do -- to the point where we have new video and it's from a BBC interview with a man who claimed to be an eyewitness, who was also outside the perimeter of this. We cannot independently verify his account of what we think it's important to see.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We noticed the guy crawling -- arm, you know, bear crawling up the roof of the building beside us, 50 -- 50 feet away from us. So we're standing there, you know, we're pointing were pointing that two guy crawling up the roof.
REPORTER: And he had a gun, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a rifle. We can clearly see him with a rifle. Absolutely.
We're pointing at him. The police are down, running around on the ground were like, hey man, this guy on the roof for the rifle and the police were like, huh, what, you know, like -- like they didn't know what was going on, you know, we're like, hey, right here on the roof, we can see it from right here. We see them, you know, he's -- he's crawling.
And next thing you know, I'm like, I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, why is Trump still speaking? Why have they not pulled him off the stage? I'm standing there pointing at him for 2, 3 minutes. Secret Service is looking at us from the top of the barn. I'm pointing
that that roof just standing there like this and next thing you know five shots ring out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I want to bring in our John Miller as well.
John, I'm sure you've seen that that interview. What do you make of it? Clearly, if -- I mean, it raises certainly a lot of questions.
MILLER: Serious questions, and it's consistent with what police have been getting in their interviews with people who saw this guy across the field and climb this roof.
[21:40:08]
But the question it raises is he saying -- they're pointing him out to the police, and the police are -- I guess he's not clear about how they're reacting, but he said they're running around. Are they communicating with others to say, who is that on the roof?
He says they are pointing to the Secret Service guys on the next roof and pointing to this roof and saying, do you see this guy? And that's going to be all that communication about who is this individual is. Its law enforcement or is it someone else? If its law enforcement they should already know that which has got to be setting off alarms.
And in a very short time between him being spotted up there on the roof with the rifle and the incident, there's going to be an extraordinarily, excruciatingly detailed examination about who knew what, how was this communicated and who determined to take what action or not take what action as they sorted out who this person was before he opened fire. At which point, they took immediate action.
But this is going to be deeply examined for a long time.
COOPER: John, you were talking about the number of shots and that's sort of the grouping of them. It seemed to me that there were sort of three separate -- there was an initial few than there were -- there were another several, and then there was it seemed to me there was a third which seemed louder and produce more screams from somebody in the crowd. And that seemed to be off to the left of the former president.
Is that your understanding as well, because you had said that you thought the second grouping was the counter snipers hitting the shooter, it seems to me that there was a sort of a single shot later on, but maybe I'm wrong.
MILLER: Well, all I've gone by as the audio I've heard since this deal had been played on our air, but what you hear is two to three shots in rapid succession. It is likely that that is the shooter from the roof and then you hear a five to seven shots in more rapid succession from multiple weapons being fired at the same time. It is likely that that is the counter sniper team's response. That said, you can only glean so much from sound and we don't have the
requisite pictures of either side of that, at least not yet.
COOPER: All right. John, thank you. We'll check in with you.
Wolf, let's go back to you.
BLITZER: All right, Anderson.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny has new reporting in how this will change potentially next week's Republican convention in Milwaukee, and indeed the rest of the campaign.
What are you learning?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, talking to Republican officials tonight. They say the convention is proceeding as planned on Monday. In fact, just a few moments ago, a statement plus sent out from the top senior advisors to the Trump campaign. Let me read a part of that.
It says: President Trump looks forward to joining you all in Milwaukee as we proceed with our convention to nominate him to serve as the 47th president of the United States. As our party's nominee, President Trump will continue to share his vision to make America great again. That assigned by Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita, as well as the chairman of the Republican National Committee.
So, Wolf, the convention is on, but this will be no ordinary convention. This is no ordinary moment in our political discourse here, 115 days remain until the end of this campaign, and they are entirely different now than we thought just a few hours ago.
A few examples are these, the Biden campaign has suspended its advertising. They are not advertising in Pennsylvania or other battleground states. The president, of course, we saw earlier tonight saying that this type of political violence has no place.
Former presidents have weighed in. We've heard from a former President George W. Bush, former President Barack Obama all saying that -- with President Bush calling it a cowardly attack, President Obama's, and that there's no place for this type of violence in American politics.
So, Wolf, we have now, we never know what presidential campaigns will be about. They changed throughout the course of the campaigns. Now, violence and this will be a central part of the conversation here.
But Republicans gather in Milwaukee on Monday to nominate Donald Trump. We do not know exactly when he will be traveling there. He was scheduled to go tomorrow. That schedule could change. We shall see.
He also has the biggest decision yet of his campaign to announce his vice presidential running mate. We expect that to happen on Monday, if not before then.
So, Wolf, this certainly changes the presidential campaign in front of us tonight. But the Republican convention is still going on, on Monday.
BLITZER: And, Jeff, on that point, I think it's significant what the Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas says -- just said in a statement, remember the Secret Service is part of the Department of Homeland Security.
[21:45:02]
Among other things, Mayorkas says this: We are engaged with President Biden, former President Trump and their campaigns and are taking every possible measure to ensure their safety and security. Maintaining the security of the presidential candidates and their campaign events is one of our department's most vital priorities.
So I assume if this Republican convention begins on Monday is planned, security which already had been anticipated as being extraordinary, will be beefed up even more so, right?
ZELENY: There's no question about it, Wolf, I mean, that's already is a major security event. Protests have been one thing that was discussed. Now, of course, the safety and security of the attendees will be front and center.
The U.S. Secret Service has been on the scene in Milwaukee for a weeks and months, planning this, but this takes on an extraordinarily new level. And, Wolf, if we all know Secret Service agents, we've covered the White House and talking with one former one this evening, this is something that is their biggest fear. They take their jobs so seriously, Republican or Democrat, it does not matter. You elect, we protect, that is their motto.
So, certainly, every agent, every member of that agency is taking this very seriously tonight, but there's no question that convention in Milwaukee will be highly, highly secure, Wolf.
BLITZER: As will the Democratic Convention in Chicago in August, a few weeks later, all of us who have been White House correspondents work closely with the Secret Service and we are always so impressed by what they're doing, trying to protect the president, and the first family indeed, and other officials who work at the White House as well. We're all grateful to the U.S. Secret Service.
Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: Wolf, thanks.
Pennsylvania Congressman Daniel Meuser joins me now. He was in the front row at the rally today.
Congressman, thank you for being with us. I'm so sorry we are talking in these circumstances.
Can you talk about what you experienced, what you saw, when you knew something was wrong?
Congressman -- REP. DANIEL MEUSER (R-PA): I'm okay.
COOPER: Yeah. Congressman, can you hear me? It's Anderson Cooper.
Okay. We'll probably -- we're having trouble making connection will try to get back in touch with the congressman very, very shortly.
Tim Naftali, presidential historian, is here with me in New York.
Again, I mean, from a -- again, we don't know how this impacts things moving forward.
NAFTALI: No, we don't. None of the major players in this story know how it will impact things going forward.
COOPER: And how they plan to talk about it --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: -- or not.
NAFTALI: What I -- I hope I'm speaking on behalf of many people what I desperately hope for is that we stopped talking about vengeance in any form, of any kind, by anyone. Our language -- this campaign has been -- the language has been tough and extreme, and I think to move the country in a healthy direction, we have to keep talking about how political violence as unacceptable and that we have crossed a line.
Some mad person crossed a line and we want to go back and so that's what I look for.
In -- when this has happened before in our history, that is the way we have responded as a people. We have -- we've talked about how this was wrong. This we are better than this. We have talked -- we asked ourselves, is there a sickness?
This is -- this is how we deal with these issues time and again, and I expect it to be the same this time. It's really important that -- that the president -- first of all, that President Trump fully recover and that both conventions provide an opportunity for healing.
Of course, they're going to push for their own candidate because that's the way we are. We're competitive people, and that's how a democracy should work. But there should be an element at both conventions, a reminder that our country sometimes takes the wrong turn. And we have a history of violence and we don't want to see it again.
COOPER: Pennsylvania Congressman Daniel Meuser is back with us. As I said before, he was in the front row at the rally today.
Congressman, I appreciate you joining us. I'm sorry to these circumstances.
Can you talk about what you saw -- what you -- when you realized things were going, what had happened? MEUSER: Yeah. Thanks, Anderson.
Yeah, it started out like a regular rally. President -- former President Trump came in and took pictures and spent a little bit of time. He came out, he was speaking no longer than six or seven minutes, and next thing, you know, there was -- there was rapid-fire. It was pretty obvious after second or third gunshot what was happening, particularly, I turned around to see where it was coming from.
[21:50:10]
And then I my eyes fixated on the president saw him grabbed his ear and then and then hit the deck, grabbed the side of his head. It was sort of zero at the time and then the Secret Service came in, did their thing, Pennsylvania state police were all over the same, pandemonium broke out. People were crying, they were worried about the president. They weren't sure if the shooter was still firing because there were a couple of added shots when the Secret Service is up there.
So it was quite -- it was quite a scene.
COOPER: Did -- were you aware that we now we know one person in the crowd was killed, two others were wounded. We don't know the extent of those of those wounds. Were you aware of that others in the crowd had been hit?
MEUSER: Yes, yes. One was not far from me where I was sitting. I was in the front row with Dave McCormick and Mike Kelly to the right of the stage. And the individual who was fatally shot and killed was no more than 20 feet behind us.
And so, yeah, everybody started at least screaming, asked me for a medic. And honestly, it was a bloody scene.
COOPER: How long -- what happened afterward? Once the former president was got into the vehicle, what -- what happened then?
MEUSER: Well, it was a little bit little chaotic. The Secret Service was saying tell everybody to get down. They were -- they were on the move, they were protecting the president.
They were looking for the shooter or if there was another shooter because as it turned out, I think you've seen that the shooter on the roof was taken out pretty quickly by the -- by Secret Service right after we heard the final shots. So thank God for that. But we weren't sure if there were others.
I mean, when you hear gunfire like that, it sounds like you don't know where it's coming from? So it was -- it was -- a lot of people were very panicked. But fortunately, they settled down after a little while, particularly when President Trump honestly stood up and gave a thumbs up that kind of calm the crowd a little bit.
COOPER: The -- it seems that the shooter was on the top of a roof, not in the perimeter that the secured perimeter, but just outside, but obviously, a lot of questions about why he wasn't seen there was a eyewitness who was interviewed by the BBC who said that that person then had seen him crawl up the building, was pointing to him for several minutes, trying to alert people to his presence.
What questions do you have at this point? What -- I mean should -- the convention it seems is going to move forward, going to begin on Monday as planned.
MEUSER: Yeah, yeah. And on that situation, I'm not sure about any of that. I heard some of that too. Obviously, somebody took films and somebody said, hey, I saw an individual on the roof. I'm not sure if they informed police or they think was notified there. So, we'll see what happens then.
Yeah. President Trumps already put out that he's going to be at the convention. He's on his way, I think back to Bedminster. And did hear motorcade left the hospital that he was taken to.
And thank God, I mean, you know, he was within a quarter of an inch probably of a being assassinated.
COOPER: Yeah. It's incredible. I mean, if it was the bullet grazed, the top of his ear you know, quarter of an inch in any in the wrong direction could have been could have been fatal.
Congressman, I do appreciate your time tonight. I'm sorry for what you and everybody there went through and glad -- glad that the former president is as well and moving forward. Thank you so much.
MEUSER: Thanks, Anderson. Yeah, thanks for your concern. Thanks for the civility and we really we got to remove the hostility. I think everybody agrees -- this is you need to cool things down.
COOPER: Yeah. Let's hope. Thank you, Congressman.
Wolf?
BLITZER: Clearly, the rhetoric on both sides has to calm down.
Anderson, I want to bring in Evan Perez right now.
Evan, you got some new reporting about what the congressman just mentioned, where the shooter was located. Give us the information that you're getting.
PEREZ: Right, Wolf. We know is the location where you saw Alayna Treene reporting just a little while ago, that's the location -- that's the building to the right of where the former president to his right, whether former president when he was standing, that's the building where law enforcement the shooter was firing those multiple shots at the Secret Service says were fired toward the former president.
Now, we have video that we can share, that we can show from somebody who was at the scene there and was taking video of -- okay. I'm told that were about to get that in there.
[21:55:08]
But there's video, Wolf, that shows the top of that the rooftop of that building. That's where the alleged shooter the suspected shooter is believed to have fired multiple shots that went toward the former president in the stage there. Again this is, you know, there's varying estimates out there. But it looks very, very close, right outside the venue would have been right outside where the Secret Service does screening for anyone who goes inside the rally.
So again, we're talking probably the distance of about a football field and a half from where the alleged shooter -- the suspected shooter was on that rooftop. And where it appears that's where the people who were attending the rally could clearly see the body of that person down after the counter snipers from the Secret Service immediately took action and shot and killed him.
So that's what we believe. That's what law enforcement at this point believes. That's what the order of events. That's where the alleged shooter -- the suspected shooter was standing or was firing from. Again, very short distance, very close distance to the venue where the former president was speaking for just about six or seven minutes.
Now, that raises some very, very, very big questions, of course, for the Secret Service -- okay. We now I'm told we can show this video now again, shot by one of the attendees at the rally.
You can see the person there on the rooftop this is after the Secret Service at appears has already shot and killed this person. They're down on that rooftop. That's where Alayna Treene is seeing that huge, huge police presence, right now.
There's every law enforcement agency that you can imagine, is that that scene trying to collect some of the evidence. She saw as well -- Alayna also saw an ambulance there. So it appears again as part of the crime scene investigation. All of that is being done as we speak, Wolf.
And so, what we see there in that video is the moments after the counter snipers from the Secret Service take action and take out the alleged shooter, the suspected shooter, who is again who again is firing from that elevated position, that rooftop that is just outside of where the rally was taking place. Again, not a very, very short, not long distance at all, and it will raise some very important questions for the Secret Service and the protocols that were taken that were being taken before this rally.
We -- we've been to all of these events, Wolf, and we know -- we've always seen Secret Service, local, SWAT teams secure every elevated position that could possibly be where someone could take a shot at the person who is being protected.
And so the question will, that will emanate from this today? Is what, was done to try to secure those positions that are outside of the rally -- Wolf. BLITZER: Yeah, because normally, you would think that they would be watching an elevated spot like that but sadly, the clearly someone miss that spot right there in the shooter shot those bullets.
PEREZ: Wolf, I will say, real quick, one last thing I will say. I mean, there is from additional video that is out there that shows the Secret Service. They are also at an elevated position, so they clearly had visibility and could take that person out quickly once they fired those shots.
I mean, they acted extremely quickly. So they did the right thing once those shots were fired. Obviously, they acted obviously after the shots were fired already, Wolf.
BLITZER: And very quickly, Evan, do we have any sense at all given the distance from that elevated rooftop over to where the former president was speaking, what kind of weapon was used to fire those bullets?
PEREZ: Again, we only know from some of the eyewitnesses who've told police that they believe it was a -- was a rifle, a long rifle. We don't know what kind of rifle and that's something that -- you have ATF there at the scene. They're going to be doing a trace wolf of that firearm to see where it was fired -- where it was purchased, whether this person bought it, who bought it, and where -- you know, how long ago that happened -- again, as part of this investigation that is now ongoing.
BLITZER: Our Alayna Treene is on the scene for us. Evan standby, we'll get back to you. She's getting more information.
What else are you learning, Alayna?
TREENE: Well, Wolf, I'm told -- I actually just spoke with a police officer who is on the scene here tonight. They say that this building behind me is the one where the shooter was on the roof here behind me, I know that Evan's law enforcement sources have confirmed that as well.
Now, to the left of that building from my location actually on the stage, it was to the right of Donald Trump's right shoulder, over Trump's right shoulder. That is where the shots were coming from.
