Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Event/Special
Trump Appears at GOP's Convention on Second Night; Internal Dem Polls Have Biden Losing Ground to Trump in 14 Key States; Biden: 'Reluctant to Walk Away from Race'; Madeline Brame Speaks about Her Son's Death in a New York Stabbing; U.S. Received Intel of Iranian Plot to Assassinate Trump. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired July 17, 2024 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[00:00:55]
LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Laura Coates, and we're live from the CNN Grill in Milwaukee. We're on night two of the Republican National Convention.
And, you know, if there was an unofficial theme tonight, it's certainly foes apparently can become your best friends and critics, well, they can become your champions. It's not your father's flip- flop, though, it's political evolution.
Donald Trump appearing for the second straight night, just three days after surviving an assassination attempt and sitting next to his now announced running mate, Senator J.D. Vance. But the headlines, they belong to his former rivals, and rivals certainly was the right word. Just a few months or years ago, they took to the stage to now sing his praises, including four, count them, four of his previous primary opponents.
And two of them he battled in the past just, what, six months? And their tunes, they certainly have changed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): This man is a pathological liar. He doesn't know the difference between truth and lies.
God bless Donald J. Trump. The country is less safe. But here's the good news we can fix it, and when Donald Trump is president, we will fix it.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): We will not allow the party of Lincoln and Reagan to fall into the hands of a con artist.
By giving voice to everyday Americans, President Trump has not just transformed our party, he has inspired a movement.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: I don't think Donald Trump ultimately can win an election.
My fellow Republicans, let's send Joe Biden back to his basement and let's send Donald Trump back to the White House.
NIKKI HALEY (R), FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR: He is unhinged. He is more diminished than he was. Just like Joe Biden is more diminished than what he was. We have to see this for what it is.
I'll start by making one thing perfectly clear. Donald Trump has my strong endorsement. Period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Joining me now, David Polyansky, Ashley Allison, Tara Palmeri, and Mark Preston.
OK. First of all, I need a neck brace because I have a little bit of whiplash from standing back and forth. I know people can evolve. They can change their mind. Everyone is entitled to their epiphany. But this is pretty significant to have this happen right now. I mean, you've got Nikki Haley, you've got Ron DeSantis endorsing him fully. I mean, this was a very contentious primary.
Were you convinced? Will the voters be convinced by the speeches tonight?
DAVID POLYANSKY, CHIEF STRATEGY OFFICER, AXADVOCACY: Absolutely. Look, tonight was about unity and that's what was delivered here. You saw I think five of President Trump's -- former president Trump's primary opponents from 2016 and this cycle. And look, I mean, whiplash is part of politics. You saw the takedown that Vice President Harris had on President Biden during their primary.
And frankly, I think all the Democrat House members who are pushing letters in Washington that have asked President Biden to step down are going to be in the convention probably in Chicago in a couple of weeks, cheering him on. That's just politics. But what I think we saw tonight was a united front from conservatives. And they came from all directions. Foreign policy to domestic policy, to immigration and everything in between.
And I think the stage is set for Donald Trump to grow into the fall now, with the full backing of the entirety of the party, which is something that his opponent doesn't have today.
COATES: You know, you mentioned the idea of mentioning Kamala Harris and we are all remembering that. This little girl with me comment and everything else that happened. And of course her statements to him providing a number of things. But this felt qualitatively different to me in terms of the times the criticism that they gave Donald Trump versus what they gave to Biden. Is it for you?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. They were calling Donald Trump a con artist, a liar. That's different than having a policy distinction, which Kamala Harris had with Joe Biden on the presidential stage.
POLYANSKY: I'm not sure that was --
COATES: You don't that --
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, it was a little bit more than politics.
[00:05:01]
POLYANSKY: Saying hurtful and that he was a part of two racist U.S. senators isn't policy. That's pretty, that's actually as personal as you can get.
ALLISON: Nonetheless, tonight, tonight, you saw --
TARA PALMERI, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: This is why we love you, Ashley.
ALLISON: I mean, I didn't have to say it. They said it. Con artist. Liar. Diminished. And then -- there's a song by Deborah Cox said, we can't be friends if we can't be lovers. And tonight, Nikki Haley -- well, Vivek was always over there, but Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis, you name it, became Donald Trump's lovers and they don't want to just be his friend. They want to be in love with Donald Trump so they have a future in the Republican Party.
I think it is politics, but I think that's what the American public are sick of. They're sick of it on the Democratic side and they're sick of it on the Republican side. They want people to be genuine. And I just don't feel like tonight we saw people who really are genuine. You don't switch -- and also, like, Nikki Haley wasn't saying this four years ago. She said four months ago.
PRESTON: Don't go into politics if you're looking for genuine people because you're not going to find them. It's just the reality. We were talking about this earlier. A friend of mine and myself were talking about this earlier and we were just talking about politics in general, and where we are now in this, in this strange environment. And people might go into politics with all the greatest intentions. You come to Washington and it does become very, very corrupt.
COATES: But what are the voters make of that? I mean, that's the part of it, right? You want voters to consistently vote for the candidate you tell them. But then there's an inconsistent message, and again, everyone has had their epiphany. But politics makes you feel heavy a lot of times, right? You make you think to yourself, well, hold on, who do I believe and will you have that same opinion tomorrow?
PALMERI: This is what goes back to the whole idea that the voters are just feeling gaslit right now, right? So you've got these people that have been on the campaign trail vicious. This has been particularly brutal last primary. Donald Trump did not think that any of these people deserve to be primarying him at all. He went and called Ron DeSantis De-Sanctimonious. He had to have an -- there had to be an intervention, a brokered intervention for the two men to sit down together just a month ago so that this could be a moment of unity.
So that Ron DeSantis could have a primetime speaking spot, so that he could go out and campaign for him. Literally as of Thursday, I wrote a column and I reached out to Nikki Haley's people, she was waiting for an invite, but she was not going to ask for one. So we're talking about just a few days ago --
COATES: Oh, is that where we are?
PALMERI: Yes. That's two days ago.
(CROSSTALK)
PALMERI: This has been -- the whole thing has changed. So, I mean, it's very brutal and yes, I think people feel gaslit and I think on the other side as well where people have come out and said, OK, you know, Joe Biden, he is in great health. The guy can run, he can kick, he can -- you know, and then you see a totally different person on the debate stage. What is real? What is true? Do you hate this man? Is this man in, you know, is this man in good physical and mental shape? They're tired of being lied to and that's why they don't trust the government and that's why conspiracy theories are just going wild right now.
COATES: Well, you know, you make a good point in terms of -- we know we're at the Republican National Convention so people who are here are already all in on this ticket, right? We're pretty clear on that.
PALMERI: Right.
COATES: But all of the politicians are trying to appeal to the undecided and those who are trying to --
POLYANSKY: That's right.
COATES: Granted. So when you're talking about the people who've spoken tonight, did they convince those undecided voters?
POLYANSKY: Well, I think there's another part of tonight that I think we can all appreciate in this business. This wasn't just about the '24 election. This was in fact the start of the '28 election that we saw tonight.
COATES: Is that why Nikki Haley said immediately, just so we're clear, I'm paraphrasing here, I support him?
POLYANSKY: Well, look, they're going to support the nominee. The folks that were on the debate stage just go around signed the pledge and committed to support the nominee. And you have to do it. You have to prove that commitment to the voters, to the party. That is the commitment you made to be on that stage into every primary voter that participate in the process.
But make no mistake. There were a lot of speeches tonight that were the start of the '28 race and so this isn't going to be a slam dunk for, you know, Senator Vance and probably Vice President Vance. We saw a whole group of folks that are probably going to be on the ballot against him.
PRESTON: Two things can be true in this, right? There is unity in the Republican Party. Are they besties? Not a chance.
POLYANSKY: That's right.
PRESTON: But do they have this common goal of trying to have Joe Biden serve one term? Absolutely. And what David said is absolutely right as well because they had their own personal interest at heart. If any one of them came out and did what Ted Cruz had done eight years ago, eight years ago?
COATES: Yes. Eight years ago.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESTON: My god, he said eight years ago.
COATES: We're doing math at midnight. This is CNN.
PRESTON: I know, crazy. So seven years ago, I was never good at math. But seriously, if that would have happened, they probably wouldn't have gotten out of that arena tonight.
ALLISON: Yes.
PRESTON: I mean, that's where the party has moved so far into Donald Trump's corner that if you want to be part of the party, you better be part Trump's.
COATES: Mitch McConnell was booed. You reminded us yesterday, right?
[00:10:01]
ALLISON: So, on Sunday, many of us were doing television and we've used the word that we have used tonight and it was unity. I felt like tonight we're talking about a different kind of unity. Tonight we're talking about unifying the Republican Party. We're no longer talking about unifying the country after tonight's speeches. It was -- there were speeches to like red meat to the base, attacking immigrants, the culture wars.
And I think that's the skepticism, back to Tara's point, that voters are having. It's like, you show us one thing and then you do something else. And it makes me worried not that people won't show up and vote because of who is on the top of the ticket, but because people are losing faith in our institutions, in our parties. And so we have that to really be true with the words that we're saying.
Look, if on Sunday you don't want unity, just say you don't. I mean, just be honest with me. Let me know what I'm working with so I know how to engage you. But to put a 24-hour facade on that we want to bring this country together, and then tonight to hear what Sarah Huckabee Sanders is saying, I'm like, that's not the unity I'm looking for.
POLYANSKY: It wasn't their job. It will be the president's -- former president's job on Thursday to do that. And I think if we're all sitting here, or some of us are sitting here on Thursday night, I think that's going to be a fair critique.
COATES: Let me tell you this on this very point because Chris Christie actually wrote an op-ed in "The New York Times" today addressing what you've just raised, calling the moment an opportunity to rein in some of the worst rhetoric, rhetorical impulse to the Republican Party. He wrote this, "Mr. Trump can demonstrate the will to change not just how we speak to one another but also how we act. This moment can confirm that our country is greater than any political party, but only if we work for it."
Well, we're going to hear from the president -- former president on Thursday. Have Republicans met the moment given what Ashley is talking about? This 24-hour seems to dissipate already.
PRESTON: Well, let me just say this about unity. I think there's a lot of talk -- we've had this talk about unity. It's not about the Republican Party agreeing with the Democratic Party. It's about whether or not Donald Trump can just rein himself in. That's where the unity starts. It's not about unifying the whole country. It's --
COATES: That's a whole different definition of unity, right?
PRESTON: Well, I'm sorry, but that's the reality. I mean, it's can Donald Trump go out there -- can Donald Trump go out there and not give into his greatest demons, which is just to let it all loose and allow J.D. to do that for him, to allow some of these other surrogates to do that for him? That's going to be a win of unity for Republicans.
PALMERI: I've got to say he seems sedated to me. Just seeing him in the stands. You know, he didn't come out. He went on -- he was on a stage on Monday, he didn't speak. I have never seen Donald Trump walk up to a stage and not say a word. I know there's a big moment on Thursday, but there was no real fanfare around the announcement of the VP. He put it out on Truth Social, and he made us wait a long time for it.
Granted it was probably going to leak once they told, you know, Doug Burgum and Marco Rubio that they were out, but still, I mean, he seemed sedated. His Truth Socials, I don't follow them day-to-day, but they haven't been quite as vicious. And yes, maybe he has his football for now and he's trying to meet the moment, and thinks that he can expand his voters, his base. But he maybe doesn't think he needs to be attacking when he's this far up in the polls.
COATES: Sedated or strategic?
POLYANSKY: Strategic for sure. Look, I think we're all going to be surprised by what we see on Thursday night. I think, not just the politics of the moment, but the moment that happened to him has to change him first. I mean, that was as close as you can get in a circumstance like that. And I think that puts a lot of things in perspective. And I think whether you're a candidate or just a human being, it's going to color the way you view things. Policy, politics, your personal well-being and your personal life.
And so I think on Thursday night, you're going to see that come out and I think we're going to see the type of unifying speech that the party and frankly the country is looking forward.
COATES: You know, we're talking -- I'm sorry. I will (INAUDIBLE) you up, Ashley. We're talking a lot about unity and the role of a vice president. But first ladies have often played a role as well in being a front-looking person for a campaign. We know that Melania Trump in the past has played a very key role in his initial 2016 campaign and trying to redirect the conversation surrounding the "Access Hollywood" tape and locker room talk.
We're learning tonight that Melania Trump, the former first lady, will be in attendance on Thursday as well, and we know that she has spoken in the past. I wonder what role you think that Melania Trump could possibly play in this particular convention?
ALLISON: Whatever Melania wants to play at this point.
PALMERI: Be best.
(LAUGHTER)
ALLISON: You know what I mean? Like where has she been? This is her husband. I mean, she put out a really good statement the other day, but she has been a ghost. You know, like so if she wants to speak, I'm sure they would give her a platform, but she doesn't seem to want to be particularly engaged with this campaign and quite honestly the candidate.
COATES: What do you -- how do you see it?
PRESTON: I -- look, I'm of the belief that I don't care what she does, meaning if he wants to run for president, it doesn't mean that she has to go along for the ride.
[00:15:05]
I mean, clearly they haven't -- they have some kind of arrangement worked out and I don't understand nor do I want to understand. But I'm sure that you wouldn't understand the relationship that I have with my wife and I don't know.
COATES: You want to talk more about it right now?
ALLISON: I know. Tell us more.
PRESTON: Well, OK. Well --
(CROSSTALK)
PALMERI: You know, I --
PRESTON: This is really frustrating sometimes. No. No, no, but honestly --
COATES: Just fold the clothes and put them away, Mark Preston. That's it.
PRESTON: Easy. Get dinner on the table.
COATES: Do it. Do it.
PRESTON: No. I mean, look.
POLYANSKY: He's not going home tonight.
ALLISON: I know.
PRESTON: I'm just not going home. I'm in Milwaukee. But regardless, I think 10 years ago, it's an issue. I think in 2024, people's private lives, I don't think people care. I really don't.
PALMERI: Yes. I --
PRESTON: It's fun to talk about, but.
PALMERI: I have some reporting, too, that Melania has thought about not taking a real like official type of role in the White House. It's like she's kind of thinking about doing more of a hybrid and staying in Florida and spending a little bit less time. But, you know, that obviously opens up a vacuum for the first daughter, Ivanka, but yes, I mean, listen. It's his second term. He's not going to serve after that.
There's no need to really keep up appearances. She had her anti- bullying initiative, be best, every time she's gone out there, she'd been mocked. Why would she do it again?
COATES: A very important point. We'll continue. Everyone, please stand by. And up next, Chris Christie, who we talked about, is also weighing in on Trump's VP pick. Hear why he thinks the selection of J.D. Vance is a mistake.
Plus there's news tonight about Donald Trump's opponent. There is a revolt happening behind the scenes among Democrats as some in the party continue to want President Biden out. And disturbing new details tonight about Trump's would-be assassin and what his plans were the day after that shooting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:20:52]
COATES: Tonight there's news on the other side of the aisle. As Republicans celebrating their candidate at convention, Democrats apparently still aren't sure if the president should be their candidate. And new tonight, Jake Tapper is reporting on some polling from the firm Blue Labs, funded by some Democratic donors, that show post-debate President Biden is losing ground to Donald Trump in 14 key states across the country, including the five that Biden flipped against him in 2020.
I'm talking about Arizona and Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, where we are right now. But in addition, he has also post- debate vulnerable in Colorado, Minnesota, Maine, New Mexico, Virginia, and New Hampshire. The data also found four Democrats outpaced President Biden in a matchup with Donald Trump in battleground states. We see them right there. None of whom are the vice president of the United States, Kamala Harris, according to his data. Now those Democrats are Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, Maryland Governor Wes Moore, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, and Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer.
And this is where the Democratic Party apparently is right now and it appears to be a big scramble and we are, what, about 110 days away from the presidential election? A little over a month away from the Democratic convention. And tonight the president made it clear that once again, he is not planning to go anywhere.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Quite frankly, I think the only thing age brings a little bit of wisdom and I think I've demonstrated that I know how to get things done for the country in spite of the fact they told me we couldn't get it done but there's more to do. And I'm reluctant to walk away from that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, you know what, half of my panel is back and I've added other people as well. We got CNN's Harry Enten and pollster Frank Luntz is also here as well.
This is pretty significant news. I mean, here we are in Milwaukee right now where people are celebrating the complete now Republican ticket. Democrats are still talking about the post-debate aftermath and this new polling about 14 states, including five that he previous flipped. This is very dangerous for Democrats.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA CORRESPONDENT: None of this is surprising. I mean, you look at the internal polling that was out a few weeks ago. It showed the exact same thing. Joe Biden's position is garbage. I mean, that is really what it comes down to. His approval rating is south of 40 percent. Donald Trump is putting states on the board that have no business being on the board.
And it's not just in the private polling, right? It's in the public polling as well. I mean, we have seen consistently throughout this year, Sienna College put out numbers from New York in which the race is single digits, a state that Joe Biden won by over 20 points last time around. Virginia, we just had a "New York Times"-Sienna College poll that had that race below single digits. A state that Joe Biden won last time around by 10 points.
It's not much of a surprise that the internal polling is matching what we're honestly seeing in a lot of the public polling as well. And it's not so surprising we're seeing it when Joe Biden's approval rating is the worst for any president at this point since George Herbert Walker Bush back in 1992.
COATES: Well, Fred, what's the why? Is this age? Is this something else? And why also aren't we seeing Kamala Harris, the vice president of the United States, in one of those slots as somebody who could outpace Donald Trump?
FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER AND COMMUNICATION STRATEGIST: Well, in fact, the key to me is not what the overall numbers are because that's just intent. What matters is intensity. Are you a supporter or an actual voter? And the biggest change since you and I last talked, it's only a week ago.
COATES: Right.
LUNTZ: Is that Donald Trump's supporters, every one of them is going to the polls. Joe Biden's supporters, they are alienated, they're disappointed. Trump's voters are activated. And this convention, the level of intensity, and I've been doing this now for 35 years. I have never seen a level of intensity like it is right now.
The Republican Party normally tears itself apart at conventions like this. It's the Democrats who's doing it. Republicans are unified. And so you can even see a bigger swing on election day than what these polls are showing.
[00:25:03]
COATES: You know, Democrats, in talking to voters, are frustrated by these ongoing conversations. They're hearing it and they're saying either let it go or get in front of a camera and tell me how you really feel, right? You've asked for a chance to lead, different, you know, members of Congress, but I'm only hearing about what's happening behind the scenes. That could lead possibly to a couch vote.
ALLISON: To quote another great R&B female singer.
COATES: I'm here for it. Let's do it.
ALLISON: India Arie says get it together. OK? So, Dems, we don't have a lot of time. The graphic that you showed earlier in the segment was the up and coming bench of the Democratic Party. What would have been a fine graphic to put up. In 2023 when Democrats should have been having this conversation. And quite frankly, Joe Biden's approval rating wasn't great then either. So the scenario hasn't really shifted that much.
I guess I just wonder why now? I respect the people and I've been saying this. I respect the people who are concerned because they are concerned with the fact that Donald Trump can win. But here's the deal. I've been working on campaigns for 20 years now. I know I don't look it, but I have. OK.
ENTEN: You look fantastic.
COATES: That's the whole --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: OK. OK. I have, though. And the reality is, is that at some point you have to go full throttle and we're losing our opportunity to go full throttle. And you know why people will sit home met at the couch? If they continue to see that people on your own party don't think you should get off the couch and go vote. And that's what Democrats are portraying right now.
COATES: Is that what we're seeing in terms of -- we're talking about unity. I mean, are Republicans saying themselves, I got a (INAUDIBLE) analysis. I'm going to go all in because I might be able to see a vulnerability?
POLYANSKY: Well, again, you couldn't paint a sharper contrast today. You had Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Vivek, the whole crew coming out and talking about their support for Donald Trump tonight and entire arena cheering. And frankly, the entire Republican electorate cheering at home. In contrast, you had House Democrats circulating a letter to ask the incumbent, sitting Democrat president to drop out of the race. And that's been going on for three weeks for Democrats.
So, look, Joe Biden was at a deficit heading into the debate.
ENTEN: There you go.
POLYANSKY: He left the debate in a terrible position and frankly what happened over the weekend we really won't know -- I'll leave it to you guys -- for a few more days.
ENTEN: Look, the greatest mystery to me is not that Joe Biden is trailing now and that Democrats are saying maybe he should get out of the race. The biggest mystery to me is why were they not saying this a year ago? His numbers were weak, weak, weak in 2023. There were many Democrats who were very lukewarm in the polling on him staying in the race, running for another term. Most Americans thought he was too old to be an effective president a year ago.
COATES: But the answer the question, why do you think it is? Is it matter that people have plenty time to course correct or his statement has been he was the one to beat Donald Trump? Why don't you think they --
ENTEN: Why weren't Democrats --
COATES: Yes.
ENTEN: It's probably because he was the incumbent president. He runs the Democratic Party for better or for worse, and they, in my opinion, had this belief somehow that even though he wasn't going out and doing the Super Bowl interview, that's the biggest gimme. That is the biggest gimme and he didn't do it.
A lot of folks should have said at that point, hmm, why is he not doing that interview? And in fact, they weren't willing to do anything about it.
LUNTZ: He said it. He actually said it in closed doors, House meetings, Senate meetings. They told me, and the problem was the administration would sit on them. They would get punished for their -- for bringing this up that the decision was made to circle the tent, circle the wagons, and that was a very bad decision. And I know I was speaking to some of them as recently as 60 days ago and I was told shut up, it's done. He's going to be the candidate.
And when you got that White House pressure, you have to understand how bad it gets if you challenge Trump, you die. If you challenge Joe Biden, you die. And they decided to put their own careers ahead of understanding that the public across the country was turning against Biden. In the end, there was no courage. There is no willingness to sacrifice. And that's why they're in this situation they're in now.
COATES: I want to go back one second. Because I am still curious, Frank, as to why -- I mean, Vice President Kamala Harris is Vice President Kamala Harris, and normally people look at a vice president as a kind of heir apparent in an incumbent situation. She's not on this list for some reason. If Biden were to not be the top of the ticket, she still has the delegates as being a part of the Biden- Harris ticket.
What would happen if she was on the top? Where do the polling suggest then?
LUNTZ: It does. It suggests that she's at least as good a candidate as Joe Biden, which is a complete change. By the way, from six months ago, from three months ago, Harris was the worst polling vice president at the beginning of this year. She has really increased her credibility, really increased her level of support behind her. And Joe Biden could have gotten credit if he had said the person I chose for vice president is now ready to step up and fill my shoes. They would have embraced her, but he didn't.
[00:30:21]
HARRY ENTEN, SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST, CNN POLITICS: You got it exactly right, Frank.
You know, I remember doing a segment with you where I said Vice President Harris was the worst polling vice president since Dan Quayle back in 1992.
But now if you look at the polling, again, it's not just the private polling, which of course, is very important, but it's also the public polling, as well.
You look at those "New York Times"/Sienna College polls. She does better in Virginia than Joe Biden, who's doing considerably worse there. And she does better in Pennsylvania, which of course, is a state, the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, if Joe Biden, the Democrats don't win there, they're simply not going to win the presidency.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I have a little bit on Kamala here. But you guys finish.
DAVID POLYANSKY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Now that's a great point. I think we have to look and be reminded of who initiated that polling. It was donors. The donors that put that polling forward are trying to drive their own agenda. And clearly, they, for one reason or another, they want to move past
this entire administration. I don't think that's where the polling's at today. I tend to agree.
I think if they made a substitution, and Kamala Harris was on the ticket, you've got a puncher's chance at that point.
I don't -- as I said last night, I don't think they do with Joe Biden. But clearly, some of the donor community on your side doesn't want to see her in that position.
ALLISON: So, I think there's a little bit more complicated nuance happening in this conversation that's beyond polling.
One, 14 million voters did go out and say that they wanted Joe Biden to be their nominee.
LUNTZ: True.
ALLISON: So, we can't just talk about wanting to embrace democracy and save democracy, and then you disenfranchise 14 million voters.
The other thing, though, is that a lot of people who are -- and I love the vice president, and I will support her as a black woman, as an excellent vice president, as an excellent senator, as an excellent attorney general.
But a lot of the people who are now calling for her ascension were the same people throwing darts at her --
ENTEN: That's right.
ALLISON: -- when she got into office.
And so it's not that I don't believe in people's redemptive ability, but I'm like suspect on people who, four days ago were saying crucify him, crucify him, and then the next day they're not.
So, I just -- I just think that there's --
LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, but that's -- that's the theme of this RNC night. What do you mean? Did you miss the memo? That's what's going on tonight. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
ALLISON: And I think that's why, when you talk to some voters, particularly black voters, there's a question mark, too.
And I said this a couple of nights ago, you'll have to look at who is calling for Joe Biden to step down, and it is not the base of the party.
ENTEN: True.
ALLISON: And it's not the people that you're worried are going to be couch voters. It or -- it's the people who are maybe the double- haters. And if you put your whole campaign bet -- if you bet on double-haters, I think that's a winning [SIC] -- losing strategy. I do.
LUNTZ: Here's the consequence right now, which did not exist as recently as seven days ago. You could see Donald Trump getting elected, the Republicans taking the Senate, and the Republicans taking the House. That was not really under discussion as recently as a week ago. And the donors are looking at this, and they are freaking out.
POLYANSKY: And Frank, can I just -- in addition to that, it's not just taking the Senate and the House. It's putting states into play.
COATES: Yes.
POLYANSKY: As Harry talked about at the beginning, New Mexico, Minnesota, Virginia, holy cow. I mean, it's --
ENTEN: It's -- it's --
COATES: What -- what are these hands motions you're doing right now? What is happening? Oh, OK.
ENTEN: It's about widening out that Senate majority instead of getting a Senate majority of a seat or two, it's maybe five, six. It's about talking about 2026, 2028, ensuring these safe majorities, building them out. This is what we're talking about.
And the other thing I should note in this entire conversation, what Joe Biden perhaps should do electorally to help Democrats have the best chance in November is a separate discussion of what he will necessarily do.
You're 100 percent right. He's got the delegates. The Democratic voters have spoken. That is a very different discussion about what is necessarily best for Democrats to put their best foot forward.
COATES: Well, you know what, everyone? There is the polls, and then there are the polling actual locations in November. Everyone, thank you so much. We'll see what happens.
Next, tonight's RNC focus was on crime in this country. And my next guest, she spoke about her personal experience. I'll talk with Madeline Brame next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:38:37]
COATES: Well, we are back at the CNN Grill right here in Milwaukee. I'm now down -- joined by Madeline Brame. She spoke tonight in a powerful speech at the RNC.
In 2018, her son, Hason Correa, was stabbed to death in New York. She's been speaking out against the prosecutors, who she says, and she blames for the defendant's light sentences, including Alvin Bragg.
I know that this was your beloved child, and of course, mother to mother, I was just heartbroken to hear you speak from the heart about the impact this had on your life.
And I know millions of people were leaning in throughout your entire speech.
BRAME: Yes.
COATES: And I just -- I wonder what was so important that you want the American people to take away from what you had to say to them?
BRAME: First of all, thank you so much for having me.
Second of all, the second picture that you have of the soldier, that's of my youngest son, Ayumi, who is currently 82nd Airborne paratrooper.
So, the first picture that you are showing is of Sergeant Hason, the one who was murdered, all right?
That's my youngest baby, who is not -- he's alive.
COATES: Thank God.
BRAME: OK. He's alive. Thank God for that.
COATES: -- for that. Thank God.
BRAME: Yes. So, the takeaway --
COATES: I'm sorry if that picture was shown and not in the way that we were expected to do.
BRAME: Yes.
COATES: But I am grateful so that you are a mother of two --
BRAME: Yes, two.
COATES: -- people who have served honorably. Thank you.
BRAME: You're welcome. Thank you so much. It's an -- it's an honor and a privilege to have sons that, you know, are not falling through the cracks of systems, that they are actually -- have the mindset to want to do something productive and positive with their life, to get out of the hood, you know, both of them born and raised in the South Bronx.
[00:40:18]
And they graduated high school. And they said, Mom, I'm going into the Army. You know? And so that's -- that's what they did, you know.
COATES: And it's so important thing. My husband's from the Bronx, as well.
BRAME: OK.
COATES: I find kinship in that and thinking about it. But I do wonder, I mean, the frustration that you expressed. And the
night's theme was about crime. I mean, the frustration that you expressed, particularly with respect to the prosecutors --
BRAME: Yes.
COATES: -- in this matter. That was so impactful for people. Tell me why that part of it was so important for you to share.
BRAME: Well, you know, because in the beginning of the case, we had old-school prosecutors. You know, in New York at that time, the district attorney was -- was Cyrus Vance, and we had old-school ADA's who prepared this case and put this case together, built this strong trial-ready murder case against all four of these individuals. The entire murder was captured on video. So there's no mistaking in what they did and their part that they played, all right?
All four were in -- you know, in custody.
COATES: Yes.
BRAME: You know, first-degree gang assault, second-degree murder. All four. Never any plea deals, never any bargains, never any offers on the table. Nothing.
Soon as Alvin Bragg came into office, the -- and he was handed that case, the entire case fell apart. All right? It unraveled. Two of them, dropped completely gang assault and murder charges against two of them, right?
If one is guilty of murdering my son, all four were guilty of murdering my son.
How he was able to slice that, slice and dice that, and dismiss those murdering gang assault charges against two and not against all four, you know, or convict two and not convict all four, I don't know how we did it, except for prosecutorial misconduct. All I can think of.
COATES: You -- you attribute this to why you are now supporting Trump. Were you always a supporter of him, as somebody who --
BRAME: No. No.
COATES: -- would be able to (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? This is what changed your mind?
BRAME: Yes. I'm 40-year, 40, 45-year Democrat, loyal. Voting Democrat because I'm black, you know? Not any real reason. You know, not any real reason. That there was no particular reason, what they do with our community. You know, nothing.
But we didn't -- I didn't look at it as being anything wrong with it. It was normal, all right, until my son was murdered, and the entire Democratic and progressive apparatus of New York City ostracized me, because my son was stabbed to death and not shot to death. OK? So, they made a difference. COATES: But what was the difference between it? I mean, he still was passed.
BRAME: The difference was, because the narrative was gun violence, OK? Credible messengers. Valus interruptus (ph), Moms Demand Action. You know, change your gun laws.
All the money was being flooded into gun violence initiatives, all right? So, there was no -- there was no, you know, avenue. There was no voice for me to talk about the knife violence.
You know, my son was killed by stabbing. He wasn't shot to death. So, they made a difference in that.
You know, even Moms Demand Action.
COATES: Didn't come back to you?
BRAME: No. They made a difference in it. You know, and it's like that's when the Republicans picked up the story. You know, and they embraced me. And they gave me a platform, from Lee Zeldin to Rudy Giuliani, to John Catsimatidis, to all those -- all those Republicans, all right, who had media outlets. FOX News all them guys. Newsmax, all those guys. They embraced me.
You know, I went out with them, you know, and let me tell my story. They let me tell my story. That's how it got out there. That's how Trump got wind of the story.
COATES: And in turn, that has motivated your decision now.
BRAME: Exactly.
COATES: Now, you mentioned -- I've been a prosecutor, and I don't know all that went into decisions of whether to prosecute and why to not do it in the way you spoke about.
And certainly, I feel the weight of any accusation of misconduct, but I also feel the weight of a mother who loves her son.
BRAME: Yes.
COATES: And certainly would want justice for him. I thank you for joining us.
BRAME: Absolutely, you know. And there are -- there are hundreds and thousands of mothers just like me in New York City, all across the country, big cities, that are not getting any justice or closure for the murders of their boys.
COATES: And you think Trump would change that?
BRAME: I think that Trump would be -- would do what he needs to do to restore law and order.
COATES: How so? [00:45:00]
BRAME: By changing the policies, all right? Changing the policies that -- he had the criminal justice reform policies in place when he was in office.
Biden came and undid those policies, all right?
And then, we have the bare (ph) reform policies that were put in place in cities like New York and Chicago what removed discretion from judges; where it -- prosecutors, you know, were no longer prosecuting crime; where they were just letting people go, you know, like the revolving door.
Instead of sending people to jail, they were, you know, just releasing them straight from precincts.
Don't get mee wrong. Don't get me wrong now. All right? Not everybody belongs in jail. People with drug and alcohol problems, where their -- their crime is driven by their addiction, all right? They need to be in a long-term in-patient drug treatment facilities.
COATES: I was going to say --
BRAME: Yes.
COATES: -- there's a very broad stroke, a brush to paint. The idea of, I think you're alluding to so-called progressive prosecutors in matters of this.
BRAME: Yes.
COATES: And there are different ways in which to approach and attack different crimes.
But certainly, the point is not lost on people in that there needs to be a recognition of what has happened to people like your son --
BRAME: Yes.
COATES: -- and families like yours. And I -- I'm so sorry that are meeting this way.
BRAME: Thank you.
COATES: But I'm very glad to have an opportunity to understand your position better. Thank you.
BRAME: Exactly. And you know, murder. There should be no plea bargains in a murder. Somebody's charged with murder and you got the -- they have the evidence to prove that that person is guilty of that, that should be life without the possibility of parole.
It's done in states all over the country. Why is it not done in New York? COATES: Well, certainly, if the prosecution has proved their burden,
which I know due process is important to all of us, then indeed, the sentencing should reflect the crime.
Thank you so much, ma'am.
BRAME: Exactly. You're welcome.
COATES: Thank you.
Well, tonight, new reporting on the moment that law enforcement saw the gunman who tried to shoot Donald Trump, watching them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:50:53]
COATES: While the investigation into Saturday's shooting at the Trump rally intensifies tonight, new CNN exclusive reporting: Secret Service had actually increased security around former President Trump in the recent weeks.
You may be asking why? Well, multiple people briefed on the matter are telling CNN it's because of intelligence on an Iranian plot to try to assassinate him.
For more, I want to bring in CNN national security analyst and former director of national intelligence, James Clapper.
Director Clapper, thank you for joining me. I do wonder, what is your reaction to this intelligence we're finding about, that Iran had a plot to assassinate Trump?
JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Laura, there's been a general threat posed by the Iranians ever since General Qassem Soleimani, who was the commander of the Republican Guard Corps in Iran in 2020.
So, since then, the Iranians have posed a threat to the -- a general threat, not only to former President Trump but to other officials in the Trump administration, notably national security advisor John Bolton and former secretaries of state, both of -- both of those still -- and they still both get protection -- detail protection.
So, this threat, and it's -- you know, there's no detail about it in public. And of course, the questions that come to mind are, was this a specific threat that's current? Was it corroborated? What is the reliability of the threat -- of the -- of the source? And we don't know the answers to all those questions.
So, to use a cliche, an abundance of caution. The intelligence community -- and I would imagine that meant CIA -- passed a warning to the Secret Service, just to be sure.
Now, what's interesting about this, and unfortunate, is if there was heightened alert, more resources, whatever applied because of the Iranian threat, it makes what occurred at Butler on Saturday even more inexplicable.
COATES: It's such an important point that you raise, because if there is this heightened security, and this predated -- the intelligence predating what happened on Saturday, I can't help but wonder. All of us are scratching our heads to think that this has happened.
Why do you think the Secret Service still ended up with such -- what can be described as a major security lapse, to have this grave threat to a former president?
CLAPPER: Well, first, I -- I have a great respect for and admiration for the Secret Service. They have a really tough job, and we saw the bravery of the special agents right on live television Saturday evening.
But what -- this obviously needs a pretty quick investigation.
What I do wonder about -- and I'm not an -- not expert here, but I do wonder about what was the division of effort between the Secret Service itself and the local police, meaning the Pennsylvania state troopers and any local -- local police that were involved?
And it is disturbing that people saw the gunman almost two minutes before he took -- he took his shots, and nothing happened. So that has to be wrung out, and we've got to learn a lesson from that real quick.
COATES: I've got to tell you something, but there is still an ongoing investigation of what has taken place. And of course, Congress is champing at the bit to have investigatory hearings and beyond, to flush this out.
But it's also a concern of the FBI and the DHS. They're warning of possible retaliatory attacks or even copycats after an assassination attempt.
[00:55:04]
What concerns you, thinking about what has happened, from your perspective in your former role?
CLAPPER: Well, obviously, and I've raised this point before, one of the first things that the intelligence community would be concerned about is, is there a possible foreign connection here? Some foreign nexus?
It doesn't appear there was, but that -- that certainly is a concern. And then, in turn --
COATES: Director, hold on.
CLAPPER: -- does this mean --
COATES: Does that -- excuse me, does that change the inquiry, if it's a domestic versus -- if they're investigating as a domestic? Does it change the way that you navigate the investigation, if you think it is strictly domestic? CLAPPER: Well -- well, that's what I don't know.
And of course, the thing that you do concern yourself about, and you wonder about, is that foreign inspiration for a U.S. -- U.S. person in the United States to take some action, by way of, as you suggested, a copycat operation.
And you know, and the question is, is this going to inspire others domestically, either -- either as lone wolves, or inspired by some foreign entity to take a similar action?
So, the Secret Service -- and they know this, obviously. They're kind of on the spot right now.
COATES: Indeed, they are. Director Clapper, thank you so much for your insight this evening. So invaluable to hear from you. Thank you.
CLAPPER: Thanks, Laura.
COATES: Well, we'll have more on day two of the Republican National Convention right here in Milwaukee. That's all coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
