Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Event/Special

FBI Chief: Trump Shooter Researched Details On JFK Assassination; Soon: Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu To Adress Congress; Rep. Mark Pocan (D-IL) Discusses Benjamin Netanyahu's Speech Before Congress, Democrat Protest of Speech; Protesters Gather In DC Ahead Of Netanyahu's Speech. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired July 24, 2024 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Are really what investigators are leaning on to try to understand why the shooter took those shots on July 13th.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: And, Zach, we also learned more about the drone that the shooter actually flew the day of the shooting. What did he say?

COHEN: Yes, the shooter not only doing research ahead of time, but also doing a lot of logistical planning, and bringing a drone to the day -- or to the rally on the day that he attended it.

And it's amazing because Wray says that it appears that the drone was not only flown two hours before Donald Trump took the stage, but that it was in the air for 11 minutes.

Take a listen to how he described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: Around 3:50 p.m., 4:00, in that window on the day of the shooting, that the shooter was flying the drone around the area.

(CROSSTALK)

WRAY: Well, I'11 -- let me be clear when I say the area. Not over the stage and that part of the area itself. But I would say about 200 yards, give or take, away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So, we've previously reported that the shooter also visited the rally site before the day of the shooting. And it's clear that he did do a lot of prep work ahead of showing up on that day and firing those shots.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: How did they not see a drone that is up there so close for 11 minutes? COHEN: Once security -- the security plan is already in place by the time that drone was in the air so it's raising even more questions for sure.

BLITZER: It's really scary stuff, indeed. And clearly, this guy had obvious intention of what he wanted to do.

Zach Cohen, thank you very much.

BASH: Thank you.

And minutes from now, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will address lawmakers on Capitol Hill. We already see tensions running high in and around the capital.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:35:18]

BLITZER: Looking at live pictures coming in from the floor of the Congress right now. And moments from now, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will address a joint meeting of Congress to try to shore up U.S. support for Israel's fight against Hamas in Gaza.

BASH: So much at stake here with this really important critical and controversial speech.

Joining us now to talk about that is our own Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS."

BLITZER: Fareed, put this moment into some greater context for all of us. Netanyahu's unpopularity at home in Israel, the enormous Palestinian suffering in Gaza, and the U.S. optimism, about a possible ceasefire deal.

How is the prime minister going to balance all of this when he speaks to lawmakers in the next few minutes, who are deeply divided over Israel's war in Gaza.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS": You have characterized it exactly right, Wolf. It is a controversial speech at a controversial time.

And the best way I can put it in context is to quote Ehud Barak, a former prime minister of Israel, predecessor of Bibi Netanyahu, also from the right side of the political spectrum.

Who said Bibi Netanyahu is doing the speech for two reasons, both of which are highly political.

One is to shore up his own position at home where, as you say, he is not only unpopular but there is a growing movement on the right from people like Naftali Bennett to replace him. The second is to embarrass President Biden at a time that President Biden is pressing him to accept a ceasefire deal, to change the military strategy in Gaza, which many people regard as having been counterproductive.

So the reality is he is doing it at a time that's fraught both for him at home, he's also causing controversy and causing divisions in Washington.

But Benjamin Netanyahu has always played the card of what -- what will help him in the short term survive and thrive. It's worth trying because, you know, you never know. You live for the next day.

BASH: Yes, certainly does help explain his longevity in his position.

Fareed, you know, you have to remember that he was invited by the Republican House speaker, Mike Johnson. And then the invitation was later signed onto by Democratic leaders. They weren't very happy about it, pretty clearly, but they did it.

Given that, and also, I just want you to weigh in on what we've heard from our reporter out on the streets with some people protesting outside, talking about the need for a ceasefire, talking about the need for a partner, a negotiating partner that will bring peace and bring a sort of civilized society, if you will, into Gaza.

Can you just talk about the reality there? Because that might be missing here in this discussion. Hamas is still a terror organization, is in charge of Gaza.

So what needs to happen and what does the prime minister need to say today to acknowledge that that is something that he would like to have if he actually might address that?

ZAKARIA: You're exactly right. Hamas is still the only power outside of the Israeli army in Gaza. But, you know, let's be honest, Gaza is mostly destroyed, 70 percent of the buildings, all schools, all hospitals. So it's kind of a hellscape.

And the question is, what can you do now to try to construct a political authority that will marginalize Hamas? Because if you don't want Hamas in Gaza, bombing another 20 percent of the buildings isn't the answer.

The answer is finding another political authority that will have some legitimacy, that will be able to take control.

And this is the argument that many American military experts have been making about Israel's strategy.

That Israel is, by using the enormous amount of force it is in a somewhat indiscriminate manner, it is losing the opportunity to create some degree of safety and protection for the population and then provide some kind of alternate political authority.

Because if you don't have Hamas running Gaza -- Gaza, who's going to run it? Either Israel has to re-occupy Gaza, which is something it has not wanted to do, or you have to find some kind of Palestinian authority, or you have to find an Arab force.

[13:40:01]

Well, none of those seem likely in a situation where Gaza, as I said, a hellscape. This is why General Petraeus has been arguing for a different strategy, much more targeted, much more isolated toward Hamas, rather than broadly destroying Gaza itself.

BLITZER: And very soon we'll be hearing, Fareed, directly from the prime minister. And presumably, he'll be addressing those very sensitive issues in his remarks. Let's see if he does.

Fareed Zakaria, thank you very, very much.

And still ahead, as we mentioned, nearly 50 members of Congress will not attend the speech by the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. We'll be speaking with one of them. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to our special coverage. We're standing by to hear from the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He's about to address a joint meeting of the U.S. Congress.

Dozens of lawmakers, though, are actually boycotting this event, including our next guest, Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan of Wisconsin. He's the former chair of the House Progressive Caucus.

Congressman, why have you decided to boycott the Israeli prime minister's address to Congress?

REP. MARK POCAN (D-IL): Well, first, I don't think it's appropriate, Wolf, to have the prime minister here. He's got work to do in Israel right now.

I spent an hour this morning with hostage member's families, talking about what has happened. They're not happy he's here. They think he should be back home trying to negotiate the deal that President Biden has proposed to have a ceasefire and to return the hostages.

And instead, he is on a public relations and political campaign here in the United States. And I think that's what this is. It's about public relations and politics, not about trying to get those hostages returned and to have a ceasefire and to stop the deaths that are occurring there.

[13:45:12]

BLITZER: So what's your message, Congressman, to your Democratic colleagues, the lawmakers who will be in the room listening to the speech and believe it's necessary to show support to a key U.S. ally, namely Israel?

POCAN: Yes, I think there's a number of different reasons why people are there.

I just hope that we hold the prime minister accountable. Because what he has done -- I mean, the international courts are trying to get an arrest warrant for war crimes, right? This is hardly your normal visit of a world leader.

And I think what's happened is a horrific attack on October 7th by a terrorist group, Hamas. But the response has been almost equally horrific, 40,000 people almost, 70 percent women and children killed.

This is not a response to Hamas. This is a collective punishment of Gazans, of Palestinians in Gaza. And that's wrong. And that's not going to bring about peace. And that's certainly, right now, not returning the hostages.

So I just think Benjamin Netanyahu has got his own agenda and it's not the agenda of the people who I talk to in either Israel or Palestine.

BLITZER: As you know, the vice president, Kamala Harris, who is also president of the Senate under the Constitution, will not be presiding over this speech. She won't be there.

But she and President Biden are still expected to meet with Netanyahu during his visit here in Washington. Do you support their handling of this very delicate situation?

POCAN: Yes. I mean, obviously, this week has been a very busy week for the vice president. I don't think anyone expected that she would necessarily be here.

But I think what's important is how we all talk about this. Because Benjamin Netanyahu, again, is not here, I think, to try to win U.S. support or do anything. He's here to take care of himself, which is, quite honestly, what Benjamin Netanyahu does best.

I even -- I really wish that we would listen to the vast majority of people in Israel and Palestine who just want peace. The longstanding U.S. position has been a two-states solution. Netanyahu does not support that.

And I don't, you know, really think that this is a good idea to have him here today, especially as international courts are literally really trying to get arrest warrants for war crimes. It's a very, very mixed message.

BLITZER: You think that Netanyahu has committed war crimes?

POCAN: I do. In fact, if he had -- if the international courts had gotten that arrest warrant, I had offered to deliver it on the floor to him.

I really think what he's done in killing so many women and children in an over response, this is not bringing peace about in the region. This is about taking care of Netanyahu. And I'm way over that. BLITZER: On the domestic political front -- I don't know if you saw our brand-new CNN poll just released last hour, which shows the vice president, Kamala Harris, within the margin of error in a match show up with Donald Trump, higher numbers than President Biden's numbers against Trump before he left the race.

So what do you think she needs to do now to build on that political go momentum?

POCAN: Yes. Just keep being her. I am so excited. She was in Wisconsin yesterday. We had 3,000 people in less than 24 hours showed up in Milwaukee. She did an amazing job.

And I think people, you know, watched that debate and didn't like either candidate, right? They thought they both were -- it was kind of like watching a black-and-white rerun.

Well, now they've got a spin off with someone with energy, with an agenda that the American people want. They don't have to just vote for the same old. They now have this other opportunity.

And I think you're going to see those polls keep going in the right direction for Kamala Harris.

BLITZER: Congressman Mark Pocan, thank you so much for joining us. We'll continue this conversation down the road.

But right now I want to go to CNN's Brian Todd.

Brian, I understand you're covering these protests here in Washington. There's been some sort of confrontation?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. This has escalated in the last few minutes here at the corner of Louisiana Avenue and Constitution Avenue.

The protesters came up to this line of police wanting to march up Constitution Avenue a short time ago. The police have blocked them. And then there was just yelling and confrontations between the protesters and police.

The police started spraying pepper spray and other things at the protesters. They fired at least one flash bang to try to get them to disperse. And it was very, very tense here just a moment ago.

We can show you -- we can train our cameras in and you can see the police have donned gas masks and helmets. It was very, very tense here just a short time ago. It's tamped down a little bit now.

But you can tell there is still tension here as we try to get closer to the line. And there are still some protesters yelling at police, including this gentleman right in front of us.

Now, a lot of the protesters have now turned and gone back up kind of this way as you can see my hands I'm pointing. They are now marching up Louisiana Avenue, more toward Union Station. But you know, again, this was peaceful up until this moment. But it just turned a little bit tense here, Wolf. It's dispersing a little bit here as I speak with more protests starting to march a little bit towards Union Station.

But pretty tense confrontation here just a short time ago.

[13:50:04]

BLITZER: And the protesters that you're covering over there, Brian, these are protesters protesting Netanyahu's invitation to come to Washington and address Congress, right?

TODD: That is correct. Wolf. That is the overwhelming majority. Pretty much all of these protesters, they are protesting against Prime Minister Netanyahu's visit.

They are very angry that he's seen here. This is one of those moments where they really palpably showed their anger and their frustration.

I mean, a lot of them we're saying that the police are denying him their First Amendment rights to march a little bit more toward the capital, where we know the capital and its very close environs have been cordoned off, fenced off.

That we could see when they we're marching up here that they we're not going to be able to get past this point. And they got a little frustrated with that. Hence, the confrontation a short time ago.

But now they're kind of turned and are marching a little bit further away from the capital towards Union Station.

BLITZER: All right, Brian Todd, we'll be in touch with you. Thank you very, very much.

And we'll be right back with more news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to our special coverage of this Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's address to Congress. Dana Bash is here alongside me. We're watching all of this unfold.

Any moment now, Prime Minister Netanyahu will be delivering remarks as he looks to try to boost U.S. support for the Israeli war in Gaza.

[13:55:04]

Dozens have Democrats, though, are expected to skip this speech and boycott his presence here in Washington.

I want to bring in our panel of experts.

And, Barak Ravid, let me start with you. You've been doing a lot of reporting on this.

What about the tone and message we should all anticipate hearing from the prime minister?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Wolf, we all remember that, back in 2015, Netanyahu came for a very similar speech, but he came to go straight against President Obama at the time in his efforts to get a nuclear deal with Iran.

Now, Netanyahu is coming with a slightly different tone. His people say he's not going to be confrontational with Democrats or with President Biden and that his message will be bipartisan.

I'm -- you know, I'm a bit skeptical --

(LAUGHTER)

RAVID: -- but, you know, let's see.

BASH: That's shocking that you're skeptical.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: You know, and back then, the invitation, as you said, was maybe to kind of push back -- that's probably a nice way to say it -- against the Democratic president, Barak Obama.

Now, this is an invitation that came first from the Republican House speaker, David, and I don't think it is a coincidence that that invitation came as the Democrats we're as divided as they've ever been on the question of Israel and how it is prosecuting the war.

So I think -- we've talked a lot about the Netanyahu politics of this and how he tries to insert himself and tries to help himself at home with his politics, but also help himself here with the election politics.

But I think we can't forget that it's the Republicans who are playing that up as well.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, they are. But let's also remember that Chuck Schumer joined in the invitation after calling for Netanyahu to leave office. It tells you just how --

BASH: But he did it very belatedly.

SANGER: Yes. Quite belatedly.

(CROSSTALK)

SANGER: But at least it has the patina of a bipartisan invitation, which the 2015 did not.

Let's also just backup to remember that the advice that Netanyahu gave the U.S. during the 2015 speech turned out to be pretty backward. He said, don't do this deal --

BLITZER: Around the -- (CROSSTALK)

SANGER: Around the Iran nuclear deal. Obama ignored him. An overran Congress did do the deal. The Iranians were contained for three years.

And then President Trump, who hated the deal from the start, partly because it was an Obama deal -- he never really articulated what his objections where -- but he pulled out of it.

And today, we have a bigger Iranian nuclear threat in the midst of everything else we're dealing with than we've ever had before.

BLITZER: It's true. You know, and I've covered -- Barak, I'm anxious to get your thoughts -- U.S.-Israeli relations for a long time. I don't remember a time when I've seen such a serious strain, a rupture in this U.S.-Israeli relationship.

RAVID: I mean, think about it. You have 10,000 or 20,000 people outside of the capitol demonstrating against the Israeli prime minister. I don't think we've ever seen such a thing.

Inside the speech itself, I think between 80 to maybe a hundred Democrats are not showing up. That's -- if you compare it to 2015, we see that there is an escalation in deterioration.

And I think a lot of -- a lot of Israelis are also very much concerned about what the results of this speech will be.

BLITZER: And, you know, it's interesting, David, and I want to get your thoughts on this as well. A lot of Israelis are blaming Netanyahu for this deterioration, this confrontation right now in the U.S.- Israeli relationship.

SANGER: Well, that's right. And the relationship with President Biden has been very contentious.

But I think the most interesting thing to look for as a result is, does Netanyahu try to go reach out to Democrats, to those who say that Israel has ignored the repeated warnings not to use weaponry that would have lot of civilian casualties?

Or does he just go right past that and say, give us what we need. And remember, he knows he's going to Mar-a-Lago on Friday.

BASH: Yes.

And, Jamie Gangel, look, he has been around for a very long time --

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BASH: -- for a reason. He was educated at MIT here in the United States. He speaks English with almost no accent.

BLITZER: He grew up --

(CROSSTALK) BASH: He grew up in Philadelphia. That might be why.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: Although there is a bit of an accent.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: That's another conversation.

My point is, is that he is very politically astute when it comes to how to frame arguments in the United States. He's no dummy. He knows how people feel about him, particularly those in the Democratic Party.

[13:59:55]

So the stakes are incredibly high for him when it comes to his twin goals. Number one, he wants to stay in power. But number two, he wants to make sure that the United States doesn't stop. Not that it won't stop the support of the state of Israel anytime soon.