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Interview With Ehud Barak, Former Prime Minister Of Israel: Benjamin Netanyahu's Speech To Congress And Israel's Deep Divide With America And Isolation Around The World; Biden To Speak To Americans For First Time About Exiting 2024 Race; Protesters Gather In DC For Netanyahu Speech; Interview With Sen. John Thune (R-SD): Reaction To Prime Minister Netanyahu's Remarks To Congress. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired July 24, 2024 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

EHUD BARAK, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: ... think that he's patiently unfit to keep leading us into the new chapter.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: So, Prime Minister Barak, you believe the current Prime Minister Netanyahu is responsible for the failure of the Israeli military, the Israeli intelligence community, back on October 7th, which resulted in Hamas going into Israel and killing all those Israelis?

BARAK: For sure not. He's not responsible for the failure of intelligence to give an early warning the last night. But he was warned by the same intelligence service for months that what he called judicial reform and barely ended up to be judicial coup d'etat.

And the way he runs the state of Israel together with two messianic races, Jewish supremacy that wants to turn into fire the whole Middle East, not just the conflict between us and the Palestinians, that this leads to apparent and immediate risk to our security. He was warned once and again, once and again. He ignored it.

He is the father of the bizarre idea that Hamas is an asset and the Palestinian Authority is a liability, rather the other way around. He mentioned FDR. If FDR would have been the financier of Admiral Yamamoto, he might be blamed for Pearl Harbor, but he was not, of course. Netanyahu reached the point where he paid protection money through Qatar in cash, $1.5 dollars. Half of them were found in the tunnels, in the personal weapons of Hamas. And he ignited a war, a Tritian war with the North. He caused 150,000 Israelis, both in the South and in the North, to leave for nine months their own homes.

He created a huge divide in spite of all his calls for working together with America. He made this deep divide with America, and Israel became isolated all around the world, a new wave of anti- Semitism. It all started with his fake idea.

He has the bizarre idea that we can have a breakthrough toward Saudi Arabia and the Muslim world while keep ignoring the Palestinian issue, and that you can navigate Israel in a tough neighborhood like the Middle East, you know, and it's a really tough neighborhood, without ever making a decision. He suffered from a strategic paralyze from day one, generals from within the cabinet, the Gantz and Ayman Odeh, political leaders now, but former chief of staff said he could never reach any strategic resolution.

BLITZER: Prime Minister Barak, let me interrupt for a moment. One final question. I know you got to go.

Are you among those Israelis who think that Prime Minister Netanyahu really doesn't want a deal with Hamas, a deal that would result in all the hostages being allowed to come home?

BARAK: No, I'm confident that deep in his soul he wants to see them released, but it contradicts his interest as a political player, and he's blackmailed by these two racist machinists, Ben-Gvir and Smotrich. Even today, Smotrich climbed to the Temple Mount to create certain provocation. Netanyahu yields to his weaknesses, and when he faces a choice between these hostages who are still alive, less than half of them are still alive, and the need to release them, and his personal interest to stay in power, because he genuinely believes that he saved all of us, when we strongly believe that he's totally unfit to continue in power.

So when he faced those choices, he always, once and again, decides for his personal fate and longevity of the government, rather than the urgent need to save those hostages before they will come back in.

BLITZER: So, I just want to be precise.

BARAK: In fact, one, Wolf, let me make one short remark. President Biden, from day one, proposed what Netanyahu considers now, after so much damage caused to Israel. He said from day one, join us in an alliance of moderate Sunni autocrats in the region.

We will deploy vis-a-vis the Iranians, the proxies, and backed by Russia or probably China. We will be together. We could see the potential of such an alliance in the night of Misha, mid-April, and that's exactly what should have been done nine months ago.

[15:35:03]

It's unforgivable forever to Netanyahu that he hesitated, dragged it all along, and might come to it back after nine months ago. It's unforgivable forever to Netanyahu that he hesitated, dragged it all along, and might come to it back after all this damage without being able to bring to life and to correct the damages he caused. That's why he had to leave power rather than to make speeches in the Congress.

BLITZER: So what I hear you saying, correct me if I'm wrong, Prime Minister Barak, what you're saying is that Prime Minister Netanyahu is more interested in staying in political power than he is in ending this conflict in Gaza and seeing those hostages come home. Is that right?

BARAK: Exactly. You made it better than I could.

BLITZER: Ehud Barak, the former Prime Minister of Israel, thanks so much for joining us on this important day, and we'll be right back with more news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:35]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Tonight, the president will give a primetime speech, delivering his first public remarks about his decision to drop out of the race and pass the torch to Vice President Kamala Harris. Here's what White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre, previewing his speech, just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Tonight, the president will discuss his historic decision to put the country above all else, and about the inflection point we face as a country in this moment. This is one of those rare moments in history when the decisions we make now will determine the future of our nation. America must choose between moving forward or backward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: CNN Special Correspondent Jamie Gangel is joining us right now. What do you expect to hear from President Biden tonight?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that just as his press secretary said, this is a speech for history. It's also a speech that President Biden wished he didn't have to be giving. It was very hard for him to get here.

He fought it for a long time. But now, once he made the decision, the accolades came in. And I think that he also understands how it has changed the dynamics of this race, how dramatically it has infused it with energy.

And it's also left former President Trump having to really scramble to change his strategy. But Joe Biden has been in public office for most of his life. And I think he will be looking back at this from the historic perspective.

BLITZER: So he gives this primetime Oval Office address to the nation and indeed to the world later tonight. And then tomorrow, he meets with Prime Minister Netanyahu. Give us your sense -- I know you're doing a lot of reporting on this. What's at stake during that meeting tomorrow?

GANGEL: So I think there's a tremendous amount at stake because he only has, President Biden only has a few more months in office. And he desperately wants a deal for what's been going on with Israel and the Middle East. It's actually going to be an interesting 48 hours because he will meet with Netanyahu. Vice President Kamala Harris will meet. I would like to be a fly on that wall to see how. And she has a lot to negotiate because of the election coming up in November in states like Michigan.

And then on Friday, Netanyahu goes to Donald Trump. And as we saw in the speech, a lot of his speech was saying thank you to Donald Trump. He's hedging his bets on what happens in November.

BASH: Also trying to, as you said, I will tell the world in a text to me trying to make up with Donald Trump because they had a bit of a rift. We also have with us here the CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, Jonathan Greenblatt.

Jonathan, you came from this address. You were in the hall in the House chamber. What was your impression of the speech knowing that he had multiple audiences there?

JONATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: Yes, it was pretty extraordinary, Dana. I mean, to be there in the chamber watching Prime Minister Netanyahu deliver those remarks, there were a few things that stood out for me.

Number one, it was a unity message. Like literally you had Democrats and Republicans standing up and applauding. I thought there was going to be lots of empty seats. There simply weren't. It was a pretty full house.

And he complimented President Biden and praised him, as Jamie said. And he complimented President Trump for the Abraham Accords. So he was sort of finding a way to praise both sides. That's number one.

Number two, he talked about anti-Semitism. He talked about what's happening on our college campuses, what's happening in the streets, and how that is not just about protesting policies of the government. You're seeing people going after Zionists and Jews. And literally while he was speaking outside the Capitol, you had people burning American flags in front of Union Station.

I saw signs as I came over here to the studio, people saying things like any resistance is justified. I mean, comparing that -- those kind of -- that kind of language, when you think about the babies who were burned and the women who were raped. So he talked about that. That was important.

And then thirdly, I think he laid out a path forward. He talked about hostages and needs to get them home.

[15:45:00]

And he talked about what a future could look like for Israel and a demilitarized Gaza, like a vision of peace. That to me was really quite welcome.

BLITZER: But there were a lot of Democrats -- dozens of Democrats boycotted the speech, didn't show up a lot of those seats where the Democrats would have been seated, where congressional staffers just showing up and sitting there.

GREENBLATT: You know, there may have been some empties, but I watched Hakeem Jeffries stand and applaud. I watched Chuck Schumer stand and applaud. I watched almost every Democratic senator stand and applaud.

So I hear what you're saying. But I got to say, I saw unity in that room. I saw him try to appeal to both sides. And I saw people from both parties respond.

BASH: What you do at the ADL is try to stamp out hate.

GREENBLATT: Of course.

BASH: Anti-Semitism, hate against Islamophobia, racism, all of it.

How do you think that Netanyahu's attempt to do that in his speech is going to play? I mean, I was getting a text from one American Jew who said, OK, it's fine to call people useful idiots, but how about like a slight nod to people who are genuinely upset about what's happening in Gaza? And understanding that you're also seeing the signs that you just described, which is just plain hate.

GREENBLATT: Totally. And he talked about the director of national intelligence acknowledging a few weeks ago that Iran is involved in these protests, something we've been seeing at ADL for a long time.

But he did something very interesting, Dana. Before the speech really got started, he called out some of the folks that he had brought over as part of his delegation, including, for example, a Bedouin soldier, which was interesting, because I think most Americans don't realize there are Israeli Muslims in the IDF.

And then he had an Ethiopian Israeli soldier who ran eight miles on October the 7th. So I point this out because he demonstrated the diversity of Israeli society. I think you pointed this out earlier in a way that surprised a lot of people.

He could have come with just decorated Jewish veterans. He didn't do that. He brought a more diverse delegation. And I think that sends a message.

GANGEL: I just to push back just a little bit about, about all the unity. You know, several Israelis from both sides of the aisle were texting me during the speech. And what I heard from them is that that was, in effect, a very celebratory speech that really does not fit and that there is an alternate reality on the ground that's going on both in Gaza and in Israel.

As we know, in the north, 60,000 plus Israelis are displaced. There has been an extraordinary impact on the economy. And then, of course, there is the devastating reality of the number of deaths in Gaza, Palestinians, the humanitarian disaster.

So he had a welcome audience there today, but he did ignore what I'm hearing from Israelis is a very dire reality on the ground.

GREENBLATT: Look, there is no question that that is an incredibly difficult situation. And every civilian life lost is a tragedy. Every Palestinian woman or child who was killed inadvertently, no matter what the IDF tries to do, that is a tragedy. We should mourn every one of those deaths.

But he talked about, for example, the dire situation in Gaza and how they're trying to bring in supplies. He talked about the situation in the north, like you're pointing out, and the need to bring those people back to their homes, 60 or 80,000 Israelis.

And he talked about the need to bring the hostages home. I know at ADL, again, we're folks fighting aid here at home, but we all wear the dog tags because we want these civilians, these innocent people back, including, by the way, dozens of them. I think maybe it's eight Americans at this point.

So I think he tried to address that, Jamie. But look, if you've lost a child, if you're I think about my friends, the Polins, I was with the Neutras before we came on. Their sons are both held in Gaza.

I can't even begin to grasp the unspeakable pain they deal with every day. We have got to get those kids home. So I hope they get a deal very fast so we can see Omer and we can see Hersh back home safe and sound and all the hostages once and for all.

BLITZER: So there's a deal that will bring those hostages home as quickly as possible. Jonathan Greenblatt, thanks very much. Jamie, thanks to you as well.

I want to go CNN's Miguel Marquez. He's been covering the demonstrators out there in the streets of Washington. Jamie, give us a sense of what's been going on.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lots and lots of demonstrators and protesters throughout the Capitol, around the Capitol building. But I want to show you, it's all in here at Union Station. This is the remnants of one U.S. flag that was burned here. Over in the distance there, you can see the ashes there. That's the remnants of another flag.

I want to show you sort of the bell over here, though, the Liberty, the copy of the Liberty Bell that's out in front of the station. That's been covered in graffiti. And then the Columbus Memorial has also been covered in graffiti here.

[15:50:00]

And Jonathan, if you could show all three U.S. flags on the three flagpoles. Massive flagpoles out in front of Union Station have been pulled down and Palestinian flags have been put up in their place. Most of the protesters, there's a few dozen, maybe 100 or so still gathered here. Most of the protesters have left. But you can see the number of police officers in front of Union Station. And I'm looking over across the way here, and there are lots of police with shields now and heavy vehicles.

So it looks like most of the protesters are leaving and police will come back in and bring this place back to order -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Miguel, let's hope it's peaceful over there. Miguel Marquez reporting for us. Thanks very much -- Dana.

BASH: Thank you so much. And with us now is Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota. Senator, thank you so much for being here. Really great to see you and to have you here. First, generally speaking, your reaction to Prime Minister Netanyahu's remarks?

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Strong speech. And as is usually the case with the prime minister, very well articulated. And I thought he hit all the right points, Dana.

I think the one thing that he needs to do for people in this country and for that matter, people all around the world is connect the dots back to Iran. And the fact that Israel is the only thing standing between Iran and the United States, which they consider to be the great Satan. And so Iran is behind all the malign activities in that region, whether it's Hezbollah in the north or the Houthis in Yemen or Hamas right there in the Gaza Strip.

But I thought he was really effective in that in particular and also articulating a vision of what it could like -- could look like in the future if you had an integrated Middle East and a de-radicalized, de- militarized Gaza. And that, of course, means that you've got to get rid and eliminate Hamas.

BASH: I want to get back to what you were just talking about. I'm back to the prime minister's speech in a second. I'm not sure if you were able to hear our reporter, Miguel Marquez, who was talking about the protesters outside.

Specifically, he was reporting on and showing the American flag being lowered, the Palestinian flag being raised. We even saw some red triangles. We're showing it now.

I don't know if you can see it, but we even saw some red triangles on some of the statues. What's your reaction to that?

THUNE: Well, I think it's disgraceful. It's shameful and the kind of thing that we shouldn't see in this country. But again, as the prime minister pointed out today, a lot of these activities that are happening here in the United States, Iran is behind them.

They are trying to create tumult and instability and chaos and fueling all these protests and the violence, particularly the anti-Semitic violence in this country. That's Iranian activity. That's why they have to be stopped.

That's why it's so important that we continue to support Israel, including, as the prime minister said, give us the tools faster and we will finish the job. They've got to get this thing over with and send a clear statement to the world that this kind of behavior and the kind of thing that we're seeing right here in the U.S. and right here in this city today just can't be tolerated.

BASH: Senator, one of Prime Minister Netanyahu's predecessors, Ehud Barak, who we understand and we should tell our viewers who might not know, is not from the same party as Prime Minister Netanyahu. But nonetheless, he's somebody who has been intimately involved in trying to get to peace. He almost got there when Bill Clinton had him and Yasser Arafat in 2000 here in the United States.

He said very, very strongly and very clearly to Wolf that he does not believe that Prime Minister Netanyahu actually wants to end the war because it would mean the end of his own political viability at home. And that might even mean that hostages stay longer. Are you concerned about, I mean, you're a politician, you understand what's going on in Israel.

Are you concerned about the notion that Bibi Netanyahu isn't trying as hard as he can to get this deal because of his own concerns about his own future?

THUNE: I don't think that. I've met with him in Israel. I've met with Ehud Barak in Israel previously as well. And obviously they have political differences there.

But those aside, my sense coming out of this was is he is desperate to end this because this is putting the lives of Israeli citizens at risk every single day. And he talked about in the north where Hezbollah is threatening Israeli homes and citizens there.

And they're just surrounded on every side. He wants to end this. What happens politically in Israel after this, I don't think anybody can really speculate about that at the moment.

But the one thing that's clear right now, and that is there are still a lot of hostages there, including American hostages, that we need to get freed and released. And Hamas could do that tomorrow. This could end tomorrow.

[15:55:00]

But this ends when the Hamas, as a terrorist threat on Israel's border, is eliminated. And then there is a much brighter, more prosperous, stable, secure future for the people of Gaza and for that entire region. But the terrorism has to end. And Iran is behind it and he did a really good job of connecting those dots today.

BASH: Senator John Thune of South Dakota, thank you so much for being here, sir.

THUNE: Thanks, Dana. Good to be with you.

BASH: And we'll be back in just a few minutes. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Got some breaking news we're following. The Democratic National Committee has just approved nomination rules after President Joe Biden exited the race. Under the new rules, candidates have until this coming Saturday evening to declare their candidacy.

[16:00:00]

They have to then submit signatures from at least 300 delegates with no more than 50 from the same state. Electronic voting starts just days later on August 1st and will wrap up by August 7th, in time to avoid potential ballot litigation in Ohio.

So far, Vice President Kamala Harris is the only nominee to reach this threshold.

And to our viewers, thanks very much for watching our special coverage. I'm Wolf Blitzer, alongside Dana Bash. Always a pleasure, Dana, to work with you. I'll be back 6 p.m. Eastern in the Situation Room. Stay with us.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.