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Harris, Trump Fight Through Final Campaign Hours; Economy Most Important Issue To 2024 Presidential Vote; Harris and Trump Deliver Final Pitches to U.S. Voters; Celebrities Make Final Push for Harris and Trump; Potential Foreign Policy Changes for Incoming President. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired November 05, 2024 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:01:05]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and thank you so much for joining us for our special coverage. I'm Jessica Dean live in Washington.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Boris Sanchez. The first votes on Election Day have now been cast and counted in a small New Hampshire village in a private home. And in the hours ahead, voters across the United States will do the same. They'll head to polls to make their voices heard.

DEAN: Nearly 80 million Americans have already cast their ballots for the next president thanks to early voting. And now comes down today. Both candidates making their final pitches to voters in the crucial battleground states of Pennsylvania and Michigan. And their closing arguments, really like the candidates themselves, could not be more different.

SANCHEZ: Democratic nominee Kamala Harris held her last rally of the campaign in Philadelphia just a short time ago. She told voters that they have the momentum and urge supporters to finish how they started, with optimism, energy and joy, saying that they will make the difference in this election.

DEAN: Meantime, her opponent, former President Donald Trump, has been delivering his final pitch to voters at a Michigan rally where he focused on immigration, the economy, and again pushed unfounded claims of cheating on this election eve and technically election eve, and technically election day here on the East Coast.

He also urged the crowd to get out and vote. The final push by both candidates coming as the last CNN Poll of Polls before Election day shows. You see it there, no clear leader. Joining us now here in Washington, CNN senior White House producer Betsy Klein.

Betsy, tell us what the candidates have been saying in this final push.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOSUE PRODUCER: Well, just really an intentional shift from Vice President Kamala Harris as she makes her closing argument in these final days. She has stopped referring to former President Trump by name. Sources tell us that is as she is trying to cast a tone of optimism and hope.

Now she is trying to place herself as a fresh start, a new way forward. We'll see what the voters say about that when they go to cast their ballots. But her message is one really focused on issues like the Affordable Care Act, protecting that, abortion, reproductive rights, affordable housing, and also really making a dig at former President Trump on the issue of Puerto Rico, saying she supports Puerto Ricans. A dig there, but really a message of unity in Philadelphia just moments ago. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: America is ready for a fresh start, ready for a new way forward where we see our fellow American not as an enemy, but as a neighbor. And we are ready for a president who knows that the true measure of a leader is not based on who you beat down, but based on who you lift up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLEIN: And of course, the Harris team is focused on expanding their coalition. And we saw that today as she had that star studded rally in Philadelphia, but also as she joined progressive Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on the campaign trail in Pennsylvania. And also we saw Congressman Liz Cheney, the conservative on The View on Harris behalf today.

Now, former President Donald Trump, meanwhile, really a darkening of rhetoric in his final days. He has sown fresh doubt in election integrity, kind of new unfounded claims of cheating by Democrats. He has aired grievances, including at Michelle Obama and Nancy Pelosi. He has said he shouldn't have left the White house after the 2020 election.

And also that violent rhetoric we saw aimed at reporters and some of his more salient issues, what his campaign believes are winning, like immigration and the economy. But overall, really dark message from former President Trump. Take a look.

[01:05:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Over the past four years, Americans have suffered one catastrophic failure, betrayal and humiliation after another. Kamala has delivered soaring prices and true economic anguish at home, war and chaos abroad and a nation destroying invasion on our southern border, invasion of some of the greatest criminals in the world that are pouring into our country. And we're not going to take that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KLEIN: Now, Trump's allies and advisors have implored him to stay on message in these closing days, but really he turned to the Reagan playbook, asking voters to consider, are you better off now than you were four years ago?

DEAN: All right, Betsy Klein, thank you so much for that reporting. We appreciate it. Let's bring in our panel now. We have Democratic strategist Meghan Hayes, former Georgia Lieutenant Governor Geoff Duncan.

SANCHEZ: We also have CNN's Stephen Collinson, Sophia Kai from Axios, and Lance Trover, former spokesperson for Doug Burgum's 2024 presidential campaign. Thank you all for being with us.

Jeff, to you first. I'm curious to get your thoughts on what you think regarding Donald Trump's closing message. As we heard from Betsy, there's sort of a darkening of the rhetoric.

GEOFF DUNCAN, FORMER GEORGIA LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: Yes, no, there's a stark difference between the two campaigns as they kind of both land the planes here. I mean, she's obviously showing hope and promise and really trying to be in a forward looking direction. And Donald Trump is doubling down on anger and chaos.

I think you're watching even his last comments just a few minutes ago, him talking about layering in more and more sowing seeds of doubt about the integrity, election integrity. So look, I think it's going to come back. I mean, personally, I think it comes back to bite him, how he's landed this.

And I just don't think Americans, especially those undecideds, I mean, he's making it easy for the undecideds. If you're sitting there undecided and you want to -- you want anger and chaos, then you've got your candidate and he's making that very clear. I just don't think undecideds are sitting in that spot or else they'd already be there.

DEAN: Yes. Lance, I'm curious what your take is on what Geoff is saying just about his closing message and his thoughts on undecided voters, persuadable voters at this point.

LANCE TROVER, FORMER SPOKESPERSON FOR DOUG BURGUM'S 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well, look, there's a lot of things Donald Trump says on a daily basis that I don't agree with and don't care for. But I think when it comes to the issues of immigration, cost of living. I mean, he's kind of reflecting the mood of the country. We have 75 percent, sometimes 70, 75 percent of this country who thinks we're headed on the wrong track, and that's largely because of the immigration issue and the cost of living issues.

So, yes, he sometimes speaks in some dark terms, but I think he's also reflecting the mood of the country. When you say that 70 percent of this country thinks we're heading in the wrong direction. That tells you they're not happy at all. And so a lot of times he's just reflecting what they're saying.

SANCHEZ: That question, Meghan, of the country not being headed in the right direction in polling, to a degree, it's somewhat deceptive because some folks might think, you know, Donald Trump might win the election, and they may see that as the country heading in the wrong direction.

But generally, you could make the case that because of inflation and some of the other issues, there is sort of a shadow hanging over this administration, and you see it in Joe Biden's unpopularity. So for Harris, the big challenge for her has been trying to distance herself from Biden while touting his accomplishments. Now that we're at Election Day, how do you think she's been able to do that?

MEGHAN HAYES, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think she's had to walk a really fine line. Right. She's had to walk a fine line of distancing herself while owning the accomplishments, but also pointing out what Donald Trump is and the chaos that he is and then also showing people how she wants to move forward.

And I think she's done a really good job of saying, this is what the economy we got. This is where we are. This is what we did to fix it. There's still more to go. We understand that this is not acceptable for everyone, and we are still working to do it. And she was laying out her policies, and I think she has done that in the last couple of weeks. I mean, she's only been a candidate for 100 days or so.

So I think, you know, she's walked a really fine line and ran a really great campaign, and she has not had very many missteps. And you have to give that to her.

DEAN: So you say, you remind us it's only been 100 days, Stephen, this election season, it feels like with each passing election, the stakes are just are heightened and the drama is heightened. This we have -- we had the president or President Biden stepping out. We've had two assassination attempts against former President Trump. You had Kamala Harris stepping in and putting together this campaign in about 100 days. Zooming out for a minute. This has been a lot for Americans.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: True extraordinary election season. I mean, you see some of those things once, you know, in a lifetime, a president stepping down and not going for reelection, like Lyndon Johnson, assassination attempts that we saw in the 60s and with Ronald Reagan when he was president.

It's all come together. But what is really interesting to me is that all of those things, all of that churn and tumult hasn't really changed the election, which two years ago was pretty much a neck and neck struggle between the Democrats and Republicans.

[01:10:00]

We've got a different Democratic candidate who basically united the party and brought it back to parity. But the election isn't going to solve anything because it's going to be 50-50. Half the country is going to think their candidate, if Trump loses, was cheated out of it. Half the country is going to dread what, you know, Trump's going to do if Harris loses. And elections years ago used to be seen as a way to at least temporarily solve things. This election I don't think is going to do any of that.

SANCHEZ: There is one thing that it may sort of solve, and it's crazy that it doesn't get mentioned. We have to take a step back and acknowledge that it's crazy that it doesn't get mentioned with all the unprecedented stuff that we're seeing. And that's Donald Trump's legal woes.

DEAN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Because this. I don't think we've ever seen a president with as much riding on an election, Sophia. Because if he wins, essentially all those cases go away. If he loses, he's looking at a potential sentencing after being convicted in that New York hush money trial within weeks of Election Day.

SOPHIA CAI, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, AXIOS: Yes. And he still has to show up. I think this is also what's animating why he is so anxious. He knows what's at stake. You know, I've been hearing from people who are close to him who say that as election day gets near, he's peppering them with questions, calling them up at all hours of the day before he starts his day or after he ends, asking, how am I doing? What do the polls say? Do they think that they're going to win? I mean, this is someone who privately, behind all of the bluster, knows everything that's at stake.

DUNCAN: Yes. Donald Trump could have the best November of his life and win the election, or the worst, to be sentenced and have to, you know, proceed to jail.

SANCHEZ: I mean, there's a wide spectrum between those two outcomes.

DEAN: That's true.

SANCHEZ: Because obviously this is only the first case that's been adjudicated. There are others out there. You have the federal cases. You have the state one in Georgia. And I'm wondering, Lance, for Republicans, does that at all work into the calculus of the motivation to vote for Trump?

Obviously, when we were looking at the primaries, he had been trailing for some time. I'm talking, you know, after midterms, when polls were taken. He was trailing Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, for example. But it was soon after some of these charges came down that we saw things flip.

I wonder, this close to election day, If those charges, if the cases that he's faced and now the conviction, is that still motivating factor for some Republican voters?

TROVER: Well, I was working on that presidential race, if you recall, for Governor Doug Burgum, and I remember when those indictments came down and you saw his poll numbers, Trump's poll numbers skyrocket, as you noted.

And yes, it's interesting to me, we haven't heard a lot about that in the, over the course of the last several months, it seems to have faded into the background. And if we look at the polling, I mean, the seven states which are kind of the deciding factors here, I mean, we're within a half a point.

And so I don't think it's anything that seems to be factoring into the motivations of voters. If anything, if we look at the polling, the number one issue is cost of living. The number two is immigration and abortion there on after. You really don't see these legal issues coming and rising up.

Yes. Is this a -- this is going to be a big deal for him, win or lose. But it's obviously, it does not seem to be factoring into the minds of voters right now.

DEAN: Yes, it is striking, Geoff. I remember I was covering the Republican primary, I was covering Ron DeSantis, and I can't tell you how many times I heard this theory of the case that when Trump is convicted, that's when voters are going to drop him. And like they're worried we're going to need an alternative. And quite the opposite happened. He ended up getting the nomination.

But it is kind of striking that has been the fact that he is convicted of crimes and then has all this outstanding legal trouble has been just kind of, it's just kind of over here to the side.

DUNCAN: Yes. And for me, I think that really just tells you where the Republican Party is right now. Right. And if our litmus test for all of these things that have mattered for 100 years, character, track record. But now I think there's just this division. The Republicans that are embarrassed by Donald Trump and the Republicans that are just seem to embrace Donald Trump.

I mean, I'm embarrassed to walk into a room full of women and try to explain the Republican Party. I'm embarrassed to walk into a room full of military veterans and explain the Republican Party or foreign leaders. I mean, I'm just embarrassed. And that's really what I've seen on the campaign trail is those Republicans that are flocking even in these 80, 20, 70, 30 districts, all throughout Pennsylvania, when they show up and they're like, look, I'm embarrassed, too.

We've got to have a new way forward. And there's some that are not. They're drawn towards this cult figure, and no matter what he does or says, it's okay. And that's the dividend.

SANCHEZ: Geoff, Meghan, Stephen, Sophia and Lance, of course, if we can't forget, is not in the studio with us, but with us in spirit. Please stand by for more discussion. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with you in just a few moments. Stay with CNN.

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[01:18:45]

DEAN: Well, most Americans will say that the economy is their top issue on election day. A Gallup poll released in early October finding a majority of Americans believe Donald Trump and Kamala Harris's positions on the economy are, quote, extremely important and how they influence their vote.

SANCHEZ: But the latest polling shows some voters have lost confidence in Donald Trump's economic plan. This is the latest New York Times Siena poll, and it shows Trump leading Harris by six points, seven points lower than where that figure was in September.

Let's discuss with CNN global economic analyst Rana Faroohar, who joins us live. She's also the global business columnist and associate editor for the Financial Times. Rana, thank you so much for staying up late with us. We very much appreciate you.

What do you think, economic challenges or what economic challenges are voters most concerned about heading into the election? Because as we've noted over and over, inflation, as a number appears to be going down, but prices for everyday items have stayed relatively high.

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Yes, absolutely. You just hit it on the head, really. What voters care about is cost of living. A lot of people feel that they've been in a cost of living crisis over the last few years.

[01:20:00]

So as you say, inflation, just as a metric, has been going down over the last few months and frankly is lower than I would have thought that it would be, given all the headwinds that we've seen the last few years, from trade wars to the pandemic to energy issues, logistical issues in the Middle East. But a lot of people feel this in their pocketbook. You know, this is about food, this is about rent, this is about auto insurance. These are the things that really hit people hard.

And so when you have, say, a double digit increase in the course of three years, even when that number is starting to go down, it takes a while. It's a lagging indicator for people to really feel, oh, OK, the situation is changing, is getting better, and my cost of living is coming down. So I think that felt experience is really what you're getting at here.

DEAN: Yes, and I want to ask you too, because for months, economists have been warning that the former president's plans for trillions of dollars in tax cuts and these sweeping tariffs that he talks about a lot could really have a negative impact on the economy. Help us understand that.

FOROOHAR: Yes, for sure. I mean, if Donald Trump were to be elected and put into place what he said he would do, which is not just massive tariffs on China, but on all countries, that would be an enormous tax on the U.S. consumer. And I think that's a pretty simple message.

Democrats have really been hitting that home. I think most people understand that 100 percent tariffs are just not what is needed to bolster an economy. They would be highly inflationary. It's a picture that we really haven't ever seen, certainly since the 19th century.

And so I think people have kind of, you know, gotten that picture and said, hey, this is not what we're looking for. OK? Tariffs, maybe as a targeted tool if we're trying to deal with Chinese dumping in steel or in electric vehicles, but not as an economic strategy. And I think that's really why you're beginning to see a lot of voters and a lot of business people frankly question Trump's economic plan.

SANCHEZ: Rana, I'm curious what you make of Harris's economic vision, because she has put out plans for different subsets of folks, but more broadly, she talks about, for example, $25,000 for first time home buyers, guaranteed loans for new businesses. She's also talked about fighting price gouging. Critics have pointed to that, for instance, and called it price controls, arguing that it's not exactly realistic.

How realistic would her plans be for the U.S. economy? I've heard some folks say that they might cause more harm than good. Can you sort of handicap her plan for us?

FOROOHAR: Sure, absolutely. I think that the big line Kamala Harris has had to straddle is how close is she going to stick to the Biden White House and what they did, Bidenomics, if you will, which has become a little bit of a word that Democrats don't love. And how much is she going to go her own way? And I think that she's trying to really straddle that.

You can see it in her advisors, frankly, about half of which are, you know, folks that would have worked, say in the Biden White House, Obama, maybe Clinton, years. Others are more her own tight circle. I think that what you're going to see is Harris taking certain parts of the Biden plan. For example, the idea that workers need to make more money. We can't just have an asset based economy.

You know, you need to bring down the cost of living for average people. That's what things like her housing plan are about. That's what things like the child tax credits are about. I think you're going to see her kind of taking some of these more populist approaches from the Biden administration and making them her own, focusing on issues that she really cares about. Children, families, racial justice, inequality. These are things that she really, as a prosecutor, as someone throughout her whole career has thought about.

And so you're seeing a little bit of a grab bag, I will say, so far in terms of what those policies will be. She's not coming out like Biden did at the very beginning of his tenure and say, hey, I'm about workers. This is about work, not wealth.

Kamala Harris is more about straddling line between dynamics and between something new, talking about innovation, talking about freedom, you know, freedom from regulation in some cases. You know, she is really kind of taking a big mix of policies from a lot of different places.

And you know, that has been a criticism, I would say during the campaign that, well, what is Kamalanomics, you know, what are we really getting? And we don't have 100 percent clear vision, but we can say that she's going to be focused on family, she's going to be focused on children, and she's certainly going to be focused on the housing market, which is aside from inflation, where a lot of pain still is in the economy.

SANCHEZ: Rana Faroohar, appreciate the analysis. Thanks so much for joining us.

FOROOHAR: Thank you.

[01:25:05]

SANCHEZ: These two candidates have been on a collision course, trying even in these final hours to scrape up every last vote from the states where they could matter most.

DEAN: We have a lot to discuss and we will do that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:29:22]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: The presidential hopefuls have been delivering their closing arguments now that the race is truly winding down.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And close to 80 million ballots have been cast early this year but tens of millions of American voters will be waking up in the coming hours and heading to the polls now that it is officially Election Day.

Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Trump spent much of their last full day of campaigning in critical battleground states, making their final pitches to voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are optimistic and we are excited about what we can do together. And we know it is time for a new generation of leadership in America.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: My message to you and to all Americans tonight is very simple, we do not have to live this way. We don't have to live this way. We are not living good.

Four years, what did they do that was good? Can you name one thing? I said to a group of people -- I said to a group of people what have they done. Everything is a disaster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Meanwhile the very first votes have been cast and counted in a tiny township in New Hampshire called Dixville Notch.

That is where we find our Gary Tuchman who is live with the results. Gary, six voters in Dixville Notch and the outcome is almost too on the nose.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Jessica and Boris. You know, every single person who lives in the village of Dixville Notch, New Hampshire was invited to come to this living room in this house because this has officially become a voting precinct tonight.

Dixville notch, since 1960 for 64 years has had midnight voting on Election Day. The first in the nation placed to have voting on Election Day and the first results that we learned.

So there are six residents, they were all invited to be here. Two married couples so four, another man and a woman -- three men and three women and what was the results of the vote.

Well, for president of the United States -- Harris, three; Trump, three. Talk about a close election. We've been talking about it for weeks and weeks that the polls that's so close -- this is literally 50 percent for each.

By the way, this is an interesting aside, for governor, the Democrat got one, the Republican got 5. So the Republican won the governor's race. For representative in Congress, the Democrat got 4, the Republican got two; the Democrat on the congressional race.

So there's a lot of ticket splitting and a tie. But what happened here in this little (INAUDIBLE) where the voting was, the booths over here, three voting booths with the American flag, the six voters, two shifts of three walked in.

I don't know if you can see inside here. They had the ballots in here, pencils, to show (ph) up their ballots, they then dropped their ballots inside this box. This box has been used since 1980 when Ronald Reagan ran against Jimmy Carter and it was locked.

The moderator of the town showed the box being empty before the vote started. People put their votes in. When they took them, they saw that it was still empty.

A representative from the attorney-general's office of New Hampshire was here to make sure everything was done hunky-dory and it was.

And then they counted the votes here and ultimately the votes went on that board. The sign up here, that says "Dixville Notch, New Hampshire", that's been used since the 1960s since they began this.

In 1960, it was John F. Kennedy against Richard Nixon. John F. Kennedy got zero votes, Richard Nixon got nine votes in that election. Indeed Nixon won New Hampshire but John F. Kennedy won the presidency.

So is this vote conclusive today? Well we know it's not going to end up an exact tie. But that is what happened here -- three, three.

Back to you guys.

SANCHEZ: It should not have ended any other way but in a tie given just how close this election has been.

Gary, I'm surprised you didn't mention the three-time world champion player that led the ceremony and playing the National Anthem at the beginning. That was quite a moment.

TUCHMAN: Can I show you real quickly. Come here, accordion player. Yes, real quick, real quick. What's your name again?

CORY PESATURO, WORLD CHAMPION ACCORDION PLAYER: Cory Pesaturo.

TUCHMAN: Cory is here, he is here. He's watching our live -- and this is his accordion right here. Do we have 30 seconds, you guys.

DEAN: We have 30 seconds.

TUCHMAN: How long will it take to wind it up.

PESATURO: A couple of seconds.

TUCHMAN: Ok. Wind it up.

DEAN: Don't -- don't worry.

TUCHMAN: Ok. Cory Pesaturo. Ok, we have like 30 seconds for you.

DEAN: World champion.

TUCHMAN: Does it really only take a couple of seconds to wind it up?

PESATURO: This is brand-new. The new (INAUDIBLE) accordion.

TUCHMAN: Anyway, yes. Cory played the National Anthem at 11:58 before Election Day as a prelude and we all were very patriotic and listened to it. Is it ready to go?

PESATURO: Almost. I wish we would have talked about this.

TUCHMAN: Yes. We could tell. We did not plan this. But because you mentioned this Boris in our talk there.

PESATURO: Did you want the National Anthem or --

TUCHMAN: Just anything you can think of.

(CROSSTALKING)

TUCHMAN: Think after the ball game.

PESATURO: I don't know.

TUCHMAN: God Bless America.

That is Cory Pesaturo. He's won the championship. He's a global champion of accordion playing three times in a row. It has been a pleasure doing this live shot for both of you.

It's patriotic and an interesting night for me.

SANCHEZ: He led off the night and he closed the night for us. Gary, thank you so much. [01:34:50]

SANCHEZ: Our thanks to Cory, three-time world champion accordion player, a patriot as we can see.

Thank you so much for the reporting Gary.

Let's bring it back into our panel -- Meghan, Geoff, Stephen, Sophia, Lance -- all back with us.

I'm not sure what to say after the accordion player because that was majestic.

DEAN: I also have the idea as you turn on the TV at 1:34 --

(CROSSTALKING)

SANCHEZ: You're not expecting an accordion concert.

DEAN: Yes. And it's free. We're full of surprises tonight.

SANCHEZ: Only in America, right.

Stephen, to you, I'm curious given the historic nature of this election, seeing Dixville Notch tied three to three. Not really an indicator of where the general election is going to wind up. But speaks to just how divided the country is.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, definitely. I think Gary was telling us earlier there were four Republicans and two undeclared voters, right. So one voter must have voted for Kamala Harris. One of those Republicans must have voted for the vice president so maybe you want to look --

DEAN: And three women, three men.

(CROSSTALKING)

COLLINSON: Right. So who knows what that tells us, probably nothing but --

(CROSSTALKING)

COLLINSON: But it should be -- but at least we are talking about results, right? We don't need to talk about necessarily the polls anymore or the punditry or the spin.

And there's so many quiet moving actually when elections take place, you get through all of this period of all the rituals of the campaign, and now it is down to voters.

And voters tomorrow or today, they're going to be asked whether they want a presidency the likes of which we haven't seen in the modern age.

Donald Trump is making no secret of the presidency he wants to have. He wants to be a strongman. He wants to use the institution of government to go after his enemies.

And that is a very serious question that voters can vote for or against. There are millions of voters that are attracted by that vision that Donald Trump has.

Millions will try to use the, you know, traditions of democracy to thwart that. So -- you know, we can joke about Dixville Notch. It is in a small indicative of the massive election that's going to happen tomorrow -- I mean today.

DEAN: That's so true. And you know, what else I think is interesting is what's really -- to kind of continue on your thought, a beautiful thing is to watch these Americans vote. And they do the whole process and they read out all the votes and it is as transparent as it can possibly be.

And Geoff, I know that your home state of Georgia, ground zero for what the former president tried to do last time in trying to overturn the results of the election.

And there is a lot of concern from a lot of -- from people on all sides about what might transpire if there are a number of days between when we vote and when we know who the president will be. The disinformation that could spread.

You know, election officials are now not just responsible for having to put on a solid election and a safe and secure election but also combat disinformation.

GEOFF DUNCAN (R), FORMER LT. GOV OF GEORGIA: I think the biggest story out of Dixville Notch is that there's no reports of voter fraud.

DEAN: Yes. No.

DUNCAN: Unless maybe there's a late breaking story that Gary is going to tell us about us.

But no, this is a serious issue and look, from my perspective, pushing back immediately after the 2020 election, when the just completely false narrative started to showed up and watching this play out over the last four years.

But I think the most troubling part of this was the last few months, the intentional effort to sow additional seeds of doubt -- intentionally, right.

It's in the state election board that you guys have covered so well and watching all of that get turned back by the Supreme Court in Georgia. But there was intentional efforts to sow seeds of doubt even up to the --

(CROSSTALKING)

DEAN: You're talking about the repeated hand counting --

(CROSSTALKING) DUNCAN: Yes, like they wanted to just totally -- they wanted to take the election process back 200 years just to be able to create doubt, right. That was the whole plan.

And then listening to comments by Donald Trump currently, they're sowing seeds of doubt. It's like if he doesn't win, the only excuse he's going to give is that he lost by fraud. It is troubling.

And we're only as good as what we believe. And so watching these people go full hook, line and sinker for this I mean I heard some troubling reports from some random person earlier in the week where they said, you know, what will you do if Kamala Harris wins. Well, I'll complain of fraud, there's no way Donald Trump loses.

Like what? Of course, there's a chance he can lose. Every poll says that it's a 50-50 split.

SANCHEZ: Well, there's one poll in particular that got a lot of attention this weekend coming out of Iowa.

And Sophia I'm curious to get your thoughts on how that landed inside Trump world because our reporting is that it was like a gut punch that the poll showed that in Iowa, Kamala Harris had a lead and that she was leading 20 points above Trump with women voters. This, as you point out is a relatively reliable poll that has shown to be accurate over the years.

SOPHIA CAI, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, AXIOS: Yes. So Iowa is a red state and I think it really did not land well with Trump himself that he could potentially lose this red state.

[01:39:47]

CAI: And I think the extra sore spot is what it said with voters is that one of the reasons why this poll says what it says, is that women, especially Independent women, older women were breaking for Harris.

And Trump since the start of his campaign has known that women and also the issue of abortion was a bad issue for him. And that is why you had people like Kellyanne Conway trying to advise Republicans to be better on this issue.

And you had Trump -- you know, Melania Trump came out pretty recently saying that she was pro-choice. That is not an accident. And Trump a couple of days ago who said he was going to be a protector of women whether they liked it or not.

That could have landed in either way for women who are listening. But I think you know, if you're Trump you know that this is something that everybody will be watching. Not just in Iowa but how women vote in swing states across the country.

DEAN: Yes. And I think if you look kind of beneath that -- Iowa is a red state but what is driving Harris there are these Independent women, women over the age of 65 that were not just breaking kind of away like in really big numbers.

And it starts to ask the question, is abortion being undercounted in terms of fueling female voters.

And Stephen, I know you have some thoughts on that.

COLLINSON: Well, they have the six-week abortion ban that was passed there.

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DEAN: Right. That went in effect in July. Yes.

COLLINSON: As far as the polls is concerned, say it's out by the margin of error and Trump wins by about 2 percent, that is still a big result for Harris in Iowa given what it was last time, 9 percent or something that Trump won it by.

And that might suggest trends that are taking place in Iowa also taking place in Wisconsin. I think Iowa especially is interesting because there was a strong pool of Nikki Haley supporters around Des Moines, I spoke to quite a lot of them in the primary campaign.

Some of them said that they would break back to Trump if she didn't win. But there were significant numbers that said they would never vote for Trump and they wished they could vote for a female candidate. Some of them were even Hillary Clinton voters who've now kind of moved for Republicans as that state has moved to the right.

So I think the -- whether the numbers are right, the movement in that poll and what it says about women voters is quite plausible.

DUNCAN: I think that poll speaks a lot to the whisper caucus as I call it. These are Republicans that quietly come up to you and say, hey I'm with you. You know, thanks for doing the right thing. I'm going to do the same thing you're doing.

I think that poll really shows or speaks to kind of at this late moment in time. We flush them out and now instead of whispering, they've got to go in and vote and they are voting for Kamala.

SANCHEZ: Lance, what concerns would you say Republicans have. How would you describe the level of concern among Republicans for that so- called whisper caucus.

LANCE TROVER, FORMER SPOKESPERSON, BURGUM 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Look guys, I mean as somebody who has done a plethora of campaigns throughout that career, I'm going to let you in on a secret that pollsters don't like to talk about, and campaigns certainly don't ever advertise.

And that is there are outlier polls that go on all the time throughout campaigns. And having been on campaigns where an outlier poll comes your way, it is jarring. So I certainly understand what Sophia said. It's a jarring moment. But when you are on these campaigns, the critical thing you need to do

is say, does this match the data that we have internally in our campaign? Does it match previous elections?

And if you look at the same time, Emerson came out with a poll showing Donald Trump up 10 points. I'm not saying there is not some movement in there that we might want to take a look at.

But I think if you're a campaign you look at those previous data points to see if it matches where things have been and where the trajectory has been going. And my guess is this is a true outlier.

SANCHEZ: Meghan, last word to you whether it's on this, the accordion player -- whatever you want.

MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: So I think it is an outlier poll and I don't think that Kamala Harris is going to win Iowa, I do think it is showing movement with women over 65 who remember a time when Roe was not the law of the land. And they remember not having those reproductive freedoms.

And I do think that's really important. I do think we should be watching other red states as those returns come in early. And seeing if that trend is in Kansas and Nebraska because I think will be able to tell us what's happening in Michigan and Wisconsin.

So where it is an outlier and I don't think she will win, I do think there is movement with these women who are 65 and older.

DEAN: Ok. All right. Panel, thank you to all of you.

Hang tight, we have more to talk about because we have more time to talk about this.

SANCHEZ: Seemingly endless time in these late hours.

One of the biggest names in entertainment are showing their support for Harris and Trump hours before the polls open today.

DEAN: Ahead, what role, if any, star power can play in these closing hours of this race.

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SANCHEZ: Vice President Kamala Harris is spending the final hours of her campaign in the must-win state of Pennsylvania and she brought with her some serious star power.

Oprah Winfrey and Lady Gaga among others joining her on her final stop of the night in Philly.

DEAN: Meanwhile Trump's team celebrating what it's touting as a major election eve win. Popular podcaster Joe Rogan officially endorsed Trump late Monday, that endorsement coming weeks after his interview with Trump on his podcast, "The Joe Rogan Experience".

SANCHEZ: And so how will all of this play out once the polls open?

DEAN: Well for more on that we are joined by CNN's chief media analyst Brian Stelter. Brian, you've got all the answers. How is this -- what is going to happen?

I know you've been talking to a lot of journalists in battleground states across the country. How are they saying all of this is landing with voters?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Well first of all, it's just so good to be here, right.

DEAN: Yes.

STELTER: You know, we're finally at this point. Let's just -- let's just enjoy the release of the moment that finally the votes can actually be counted.

It is interesting that Joe Rogan news because we have seen so many celebrities lineup behind Harris. Many of them warning about threats to democracy. Oprah Winfrey tonight said to rally goers in Philly, if you don't vote this time you may not be able to vote again at all -- some very dark rhetoric.

But it is a reaction to Donald Trump's dark rhetoric. I've been watching his rally in Grand Rapids early this morning, the casual nature of his lies is what is so revealing. And he is able to do it because he is the biggest celebrity of all.

[01:49:52]

STELTER: You know, no celebrity endorsement matters as much as Trump's own celebrity star power. And that is what is really striking in these final -- these final hours.

In talking with journalists in swing states -- editors, people who are running the news coverage in places like Arizona and Michigan -- I hear about a lot of fear and fatigue among voters but also, you know, some angst and some anxiety and excitement about democracy.

I've been really struck in these interviews from editors talking about how to put the pieces back together, you know.

Because elections sometimes break communities apart. That's certainly the case in this election, right.

Neighbors can't talk to neighbors, husbands and wives voting differently. There is a lot broken by this election and frankly by the Trump era.

The harder part is about how to fix it. How do we put pieces back together. And honestly that is the harder part that starts tomorrow.

SANCHEZ: Yes, it is hard work ahead. Brian Stelter, thank you so much.

DEAN: And whether it's Kamala Harris or Donald Trump, the outcome of the election will have major ramifications around the world.

Both candidates, of course, have very different approaches to foreign policy and could reshape international perception around these things for better or for worse.

SANCHEZ: The major international issues include Russia's war in Ukraine and the complicated U.S. relationship with China.

Immigration obviously also a hot button issue as well as the war between Israel and Hamas and potentially a broader escalation in the Middle East.

Joining us now is Francis Fukuyama a professor of political science and senior fellow at Stanford University, Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies.

Francis, thank you so much for being with us. You recently wrote for Prospect that if Donald Trump wins, quote, "the future of democratic institutions and the larger liberal international order are at issue". Why do you see it that way?

FRANCIS FUKUYAMA, FREEMAN SPOGLI INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL STUDIES, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: He is both a perfectionist and an isolationist. He does not like alliances, he doesn't like mutual support among democracies.

His economic policy is basically economic war against everybody. Not just ideological enemies but allies as well. And so I think that it signifies a very profound change in the kind of order that we have been building since 1945.

DEAN: And most global leaders are quick to say that they would work with whomever wins the Oval Office. But are they vying for specific candidates behind the scenes?

FUKUYAMA: Yes. I think that they all have to say that they want to work with whoever is elected because they don't want to get on the wrong side of Donald Trump.

But I think that any ally that depends on the United States for security like the NATO allies, like Japan, like Korea, are really scared of what is in store for them because Trump has said very openly that he doesn't like alliances. He thinks that allies take advantage of the United States and it is not clear that he will be there for them if there is a big showdown, let's say between Taiwan and China, or you know, further attacks by Russia on some NATO allies.

SANCHEZ: Professor, I want to ask about something Trump said during a speech earlier tonight in Grand Rapids. He was talking about foreign leaders wanting to call someone and speak to someone in the United States. He sort of tried to make the argument that they could not rely on the

current administration between President Biden and Vice President Harris. He said who is Xi Jinping of China going to call and he suggested that they might call him.

And it strikes me that it comes after these reports that Trump has had conversations with Vladimir Putin since he left office. I'm wondering what you make of that relationship in particular and also his relationship with Xi Jinping.

FUKUYAMA: Well, the relationship between Trump and Putin is very, very troubling because Putin is a dictator. He's launched one of the biggest aggressive wars since 1945 and Trump yet seems to admire him and does not like Zelenskyy, particularly because of his, you know, refusal to help him and that has led to the first impeachment.

And I think Putin main hope for actually winning against Ukraine is to have Trump elected and then to have Trump cut military assistance to that country.

With Xi, it's a little bit different because I think that Trump gets domestic credit for being anti-Chinese but on the other hand he seems to admire Xi Jinping. He admires China, he does not admire democratic leaders. He thinks that Xi is very strong and he thinks that Xi may be able to cut a deal with him.

[01:54:49]

FUKUYAMA: And so it is a little bit more complicated a relationship. It's not quite the bromance that he has with Vladimir Putin.

DEAN: It is interesting too because you think about China, Iran, and Russia really and their kind of alignment with one another and where the U.S. and its allies are. Of course, what we are doing with helping Ukraine, Israel, our allies around the world.

What do you make -- obviously these two candidates have very different views on a lot of that, right. Donald Trump has not been very clear at all on if he would want to continue supporting Ukraine in its fight against Russia. What do you make of all of that?

FUKUYAMA: I think it weakens us tremendously. You know, we're seeing the emergence of a non-democratic or anti-democratic alliance between North Korea, Iran, China and Russia. The North Korean troops as we speak are fighting in Ukraine.

And the only way that we can defeat this kind of alliance is to keep our traditional allies in a system of mutual support and that is what NATO is really all about.

Trump thinks in purely transactional economic terms, that somehow they are not paying their dues. They are maybe -- (INAUDIBLE) everybody acts out of self-interest.

But he really does not appreciate the value of having that, a world- wide alliance and he is just as willing to offend one of those allies with a dictatorship. And so that weakens the United States overall.

SANCHEZ: Francis Fukuyama, appreciate you sharing your perspective with us. Thanks for joining us.

FUKUYAMA: Thank you, very much.

SANCHEZ: Still plenty more news to come. Stay with CNN. We're going to be back in just a few minutes to talk all the latest on this first -- very first few hours of Election Day.

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