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Sources: Trump Could Announce Some Key Admin Picks Within Days; Trump Wins WH; GOP Takes Senate; House Still Up For Grabs; CNN Exit Poll: Trump Won Among Male Voters Under 30. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 06, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You and I walked to Andrew --
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yea.
GUPTA: -- Wakefield many, many years ago. He was the first person to really raise that. It's been debunked. But, he continues to bring this up. We don't know what causes autism. But, we know the vaccines don't, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, appreciate it.
The Trump transition already starting to take shape. Our coverage continues just ahead.
The nation's capital now on the brink of the second Trump presidency, a new era of uncertainty and dramatically changing priorities at the highest levels of power. This is CNN's coverage of Election Night in America Continued. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Tonight, Donald Trump's transition team is beginning to set up shop for the President-elect's return to the White House four years after he left in defeat and in the view of his opponents in disgrace. The political landscape historically changed overnight by Mr. Trump's overwhelming electoral victory that expanded the number of red states and broke through the Democrats' blue wall. Mr. Trump is celebrating his success, as Vice President. Kamala Harris has now officially conceded the election after their deeply divisive and unpredictable campaign.
Kaitlan Collins is anchored in West Palm Beach, Florida for us tonight. So, let's talk about the transition process. What are you hearing, Kaitlan?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Anderson, something that happened in 2016 is the Trump team didn't feel quite ready to go on day one, remember some of those earliest executive orders, including his travel ban, faced big legal challenges in the courts and often sloppy rollout processes. I'm told that they're going to try to change that this time around. And right now, they have already drafted executive orders and certain policies that they want to implement on day one, as well as reversals of regulations that have been put in place by the Biden administration.
We kind of saw that happening to a degree. When Biden first took office, he was reversing a lot of the work that Donald Trump did by executive order. Expect to see that on day one of a second Trump term. And of course, the question is, who is doing that for him, Anderson? And when it comes to staffing, as you just referenced, yes, there are already thousands of people lined up for potential jobs. The question is, who Trump picks for those positions?
And right now, just to give you a sense of how much the jockeying is already underway, Palm Beach is teaming tonight with potential Trump staffers who are here, who -- a lot of them were here last night at his election night party, either at Mar-a-Lago or at the Convention Center, and changed or delayed their travel plans after last night's victory, and decided to stick around, because that's how quickly they believe he can make these decisions.
And Kristen Holmes is here with me. I'm hearing that Trump could be making some of these decisions within days. We could see some of these high-level positions that obviously will have a big influence on what his term looks like, and just the process and the way that they're approaching this with.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And some of these people have actually already sat down with Howard Lutnick and Linda McMahon to have conversations about what they would be interested, and these are people who've been --
COLLINS: The co-chairs.
HOLMES: -- yes, the co-chairs of the transition team, what position they might be interested in, and that has not been relayed to Trump until today, because Trump did not really want to be part of taking seriously any kind of transition because of the fact that he is so superstitious.
But, you want to talk about one position in particular that I think will likely be one of the most important positions in this administration, which is Attorney General, one of the things that we talked about, and you talk about drafting those executive orders and what Donald Trump wants to do on day one. The other thing that he had wanted to do for quite some time is yield enormous amount of executive power, and in doing that, that would mean taking the Justice Department, which is under the executive branch, but technically has operated historically as an independent entity, and moving it underneath the executive so that he would have so much more power. That means that one of the most critical jobs in this administration will be attorney general, because that person will work hand in hand with Donald Trump.
But, some of the names that we're hearing floated for attorney general are Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, for example, Senator Mike Lee is on there, Mark Paoletta, Matt Whitaker, a former Trump attorney. These are people whose names are being floated right now. The other part of why this is so critical, that person is likely going to be responsible for getting rid of or getting -- releasing those cases against him, particularly that January 6 case that they want to get rid of.
COLLINS: Yeah, and Mike Lee was actually at the Mar-a-Lago watch party last night. We saw him there. And when it comes to Attorney General, J.D. Vance said something that really struck me about six weeks ago. He said it might even be a more important position than the Vice President, which is obviously a heartbeat away from the presidency. He was saying that's how they're viewing that role in terms of the importance they're talking about. He viewed it as a more important and prominent position than his own. And Donald Trump's first attorney general, Alabama's Senator Jeff Sessions that he took from the Senate and put in that position, he was so angered by him in his decisions that it is certainly something that Trump obviously is going to give a lot of thought to.
HOLMES: And Bill Barr. I mean, he -- one of his biggest regrets, he has said, was bringing Bill Barr into the administration, who obviously turned on him after January -- after -- not January 6, after he was election -- denying the election in 2020, and Bill Barr --
COLLINS: Yeah.
HOLMES: -- said it was because he was lying. But, I mean, this is something he is putting a lot of consideration into.
COLLINS: Yeah. Of course, Bill Barr then, obviously, criticized him and then --
HOLMES: Right.
COLLINS: -- voted for him, ultimately. Anderson --
HOLMES: Right.
COLLINS: -- just to give you a little bit of a preview into what is ahead here for this transition.
[21:05:00]
COOPER: Yeah. Kaitlan, thanks very much. Kristen as well.
Back with the team here in New York.
David Urban, it is interesting how many people sort of cycle out of Donald Trump's orbit and then sort of come back into it. I mean, there're -- something happens and --
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You're never dead in Trump world.
COOPER: Yeah. It's a really interesting. I mean, Steve Bannon, it seems like has come and gone, Bill Barr, these others.
URBAN: Yeah. I mean, it's just -- look, the good thing is the President doesn't hold a grudge, I guess.
COOPER: How different do you think the setup of his administration is going to be this time compared to last time?
URBAN: Look, I think it will start out much stronger this time than the last time. Last time, as Alyssa was talking about earlier, there was a lot of chaos in the beginning, a lot of sniping, a lot of back biting, you remember a lot of leaking --
COOPER: Leaking.
URBAN: -- a lot of leaking in the beginning. And this campaign, as Ax and others have noted, was run completely professionally, no leaking, very tight. And I would suspect that that kind of operation will move now into the White House, as some of this campaign team moves in the White House. If Susie Wiles is the Chief of Staff, I would not suspect there will be any leaks, or they will be --
COOPER: They will be --
URBAN: -- exiled. She is a no nonsense person, and they -- and this team is a cohesive team. You have to not like each other to start leaking, right? And that's where the (inaudible) leaks. You have competing camps and factions and somebody trying to gain an advantage over others. The campaign team got along very well. They knew the order. Nobody was trying to kill each other. No one was trying to get ahead. No one was fighting for headlines. Nobody was in the -- nobody was getting more Twitter followers or social media addicts. And so, they're behind the scenes, low profile, but very effective.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm sorry. Let's -- but let's be clear, the biggest leaker is Donald Trump himself. So, there is a limit to what you can control.
But, I just want to say something about the conversation we just heard about the Attorney General's Office, because one of the big concerns, our government functions because of the -- of norms and the integrity of people in these positions, not to abuse these positions. And one of Trump's frustrations, as has been reported, was that these attorneys general acted as sort of guardrails and told him what he couldn't do. We keep hearing. Well, he didn't go after his political enemies, not for lack of trying. There were people who tried to -- who -- there were people who said, no, you can't do that. So, Attorney General, the people who run the regulatory agencies and so on.
This could really change how the government works and put in the President the leverage to not only punish his enemies, but to pressure people and bring them to heel, and it really bears watching.
COOPER: And then if -- I mean, if both houses of Congress are -- can -- are in Republican control, the idea of oversight or investigations of the administration, that's unlikely.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. I think it would actually far -- be far more likely that you'd have a Republican House investigating adversaries of Donald Trump's in that scenario, which is very likely. But, a number of the people who are floated are former colleagues of mine, people I worked with in the first Trump term. And there is some names that stand out, someone like a Mark Paoletta, a very serious attorney and he is close with Clarence Thomas, clerked for him. He was counsel to Mike Pence, but also stayed very close to Donald Trump. Ric Grenell, somebody who has been considered both UN and Secretary of State.
They're people who may be highly partisan, but they've worked in White Houses before. They've worked in agencies, and there'll be an ability to actually just start on day one. I don't think people properly appreciate how much the first six months of the Trump administration was like, oh, where is the bathroom? Where do you sit? Where do you do this? And that's not there. There are plans ready to go. There are people ready to staff it. I'm surprised there is not more sitting elected officials. I thought Haggerty's name has been mentioned, but I would have thought there will be more from the Senate and Congress.
URBAN: You will see some more House members and people -- as things progress forward, there are a lot of House members that like to be in high --
COOPER: Out of the House?
URBAN: -- high-level positions, right? Like, if you're the UN Ambassador, right, that's a great gig, or Ambassador of NATO, Ambassador --
AXELROD: Are you applying right now?
URBAN: No, no, but these are good jobs, right? And there are a lot of House members that would say, like, look, I'd love to be Secretary of the Navy or Secretary of the Army. So, there are great jobs that the government needs to be filled and keep people who are incredibly capable, and they're Trump loyalists.
AXELROD: Ken Paxton, who was mentioned there, the Attorney General of Texas, is a guy who himself has had a series of legal problems. He was the guy also who put the attorney generals together to try and overturn the election in Pennsylvania in 2020.
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think --
AXELROD: That's not --
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: I'd keep --
URBAN: I'm not sure Ken Paxton is on the short list.
GRIFFIN: No. And I think you've got to keep your eyes on the national security space. That's always been what my concern has been, who is going to actually be running the national security apparatus of the American government in a second Trump term? It's almost always been nonpartisan, people who are career people like Gina Haspel. That's not what we saw listed there. They do have to get through some confirmations, but --
JONES: But, I think Gina said that the people doing the picking matter a lot as well. And when you have people like Tulsi Gabbard, who is a friend of mine, but her view of Ukraine is not the view that I have.
[21:10:00]
You got a lot of people who are going to be picked because they're going to be willing to do something that I think will shock a lot of Americans in the national security context, abandoning a democracy against Russia. That's on the table.
The other thing is, I don't think we should whistle past the graveyard here. I think what David Axelrod is saying, it should be taken very seriously by everybody listening. A lot of people don't understand there is a reason that we do things a certain way in this country. There is a reason that you do not have the Department of Justice, the top cops in the country sitting directly under the President of the United States, doing whatever he says. There is a reason you want the top cops to be separate so that they can enforce the law. They can -- I mean, they can prosecute fairly.
What -- the very thing that Donald Trump was accusing Biden of, that he had weaponized the Department of Justice, that he was sicking (ph) the federal cops on people, is what Donald Trump actually wants to do. In fact, if Biden was somebody who was doing that, I'm sure his own son wouldn't have been prosecuted by his own DoJ. And so, Biden, for whatever you think about what happened with the prosecution of Donald Trump, there was a firewall there between Biden and those cops. That may go away. We have never lived in that country.
In fact, the reason that we have these norms is because Richard Nixon actually abused those things, and America learned a very, very tough lesson. So, I think it's very important. It's good for us to understand that the balls and the strikes, but the game is changing.
GRIFFIN: Yeah.
JONES: The game is changing under Donald Trump conceivably.
URBAN: Well, let's just wait and see. I'm not so -- let's not go swing too wide here.
JONES: Sure.
GRIFFIN: I saw a few attorneys general come and go.
URBAN: Interestingly, there is also, who is the FBI director, right? Some of these -- these are very big jobs and very big positions. And so, Ax, to your point, there are, Alyssa points out correctly, John Ratcliffe and others, Paoletta. These are serious adults, people who know the Constitution of the United States and --
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: I would like to be surprised on the high side, honestly, as an American.
(CROSSTALK) AXELROD: I would be like to be surprised on the high side. But, given what Donald Trump has said, and given what we know he has said privately, this bears watching.
URBAN: I don't disagree with you on your side. I think it's -- from your perspective, I think that -- this is what all -- this is what oversight is about, generally, right in the House, and the Congress has oversight of very many things.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: But, this is my point. Look, right now, I mean -- I just -- here is the scary part. This is what people -- you're doing, I think, a very good job of making sure people say it calm, but their people are not calm. And people not calm, they are not calm because Donald Trump was not calm for a long time on the campaign trail, saying stuff that was scary, and now you're looking at possible one-party rule with no checks and balances, and then President that sounds like he wants to use the DoJ in a bad way.
URBAN: Yeah. And I would hope that the DoJ is used to get plenty of bad guys. Listen, we've got so many things to do accomplish in our country to make it better, right? There is enough -- we're talking about deporting illegal immigrants, right? These illegal immigrants across the border. They are criminal aliens. We talked about this before. The Obama administration did a great job on it. I like to say Trump administration deport the 350,000 --
COOPER: One of the things you were saying, though, in the last couple weeks, well, unlike RFK Jr., was, well, look, he is not going to get a -- he is not going to be Secretary of HHS, because he has never passed confirmation. He could pass confirmation now.
URBAN: Yeah. I mean, he could, but I don't think he is going to be the Secretary of HHS. I just don't think he is -- I don't think he is -- listen, I don't think RFK Jr. wants to be the Secretary of HHS. It's -- it is an incredibly --
JONES: Yeah.
URBAN: -- nuts and bolts kind of job. I think he'd rather be kind of a czar, healthcare czar, that he gets to sit over lots of things and talk about vaccines, talk about childhood diabetes, talk about healthcare spending. As Sanjay Gupta pointed out, we spend the most of healthcare any -- of any country in the world and have the worst results.
COOPER: For any country?
URBAN: I mean, there are certain things that actually work again too.
GRIFFIN: But, what it is worth of, West Wing advisors to Donald Trump, in many ways, are as powerful as some cabinet secretaries. It's the person who is the last person in his ear who can get certain things in front of him.
COOPER: Yeah.
GRIFFIN: So, kind of having this floating, undefined role working maybe --
COOPER: Even scarier.
GRIFFIN: -- in the President's ear without the oversight of the Senate and confirmation.
URBAN: But, it's harder to move the levers, right? You're not --
GRIFFIN: Not necessarily.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: All right. Still ahead, much more of our special coverage of Election Night in America Continued. Joining us next is Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace. We will get her thoughts on what's ahead.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back to our special coverage of Election Night in America Continued. Tonight, Donald Trump's once unthinkable comeback is shaking up the entire American political landscape.
CNN's David Chalian is joining us again with more on our exit polling. And David, so interesting what happened in this election. You have more information about male voters and how they really were key to propelling Trump to victory. Tell us more.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: There is no doubt about it, Jake. You heard a lot about the manosphere, the way Trump was messaging throughout the campaign. It was a direct appeal to male voters, and it paid off. Trump gets 55 percent of male voters in this election to Harris' 42 percent. The gender gap, when you talk about it, hit that 13-point advantage, swamped the eight-point advantage Harris had with women. So, the gender gap played to Trump's advantage. Look among young voters, 18 young male voters, 18 to 29-year-old men, Trump wins them here by two points in this election, 49 percent to 47 percent. Biden won them by double digits just four years ago. Trump flipped it around now, winning young male voters.
Take a look here at the Latino vote among men. Male Latino voters, Trump gets 55 percent of that vote. Harris, 43 percent. That 12-point Trump advantage, four years ago, Jake, this category was a 23-point advantage for Biden. It's a 35-point swing with Latino men to Trump from Biden four years ago. And black men performed roughly where they were four years ago. Harris wins 77 percent of black men, Trump 21 percent, a slightly narrower margin than existed with black men between Trump and Biden four years ago, Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Interesting stuff. Thanks so much, David.
[21:20:00]
Joining us now, Republican congresswoman Nancy Mace of South Carolina. First of all, congresswoman, congratulations on your reelection. I want to ask you about those numbers that you just saw, Trump winning men under 30-years-old. Based on your time out on the stomp and your time campaigning in South Carolina and your district, what is the reason do you think behind that flip for men under 30?
REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Well, I think attacking male voters. I mean, we saw that on the campaign trail by some on the far left, and I think he gave them a voice. But, the other thing about the gender gap this year too, because I read CNN before I came on your show, Jake, tonight, was that while Kamala won women this year, she won women at a smaller, more tighter margin than was anticipated as well. And so, there is a different gender gap, I guess, so to speak. But, we have to work as Republicans to win women voters over the next time around as well.
TAPPER: One of President-elect Trump's top priorities, he says, is deporting all undocumented immigrants, not just those who have committed violent crimes, but everyone who is here illegally. We don't even know how many people that is. It might be 20 million, 25 million. Do you support that? Should the Trump administration deport every undocumented immigrant in the country?
MACE: Well, in fact, I have a bill, Jake, that we passed out of the House with over support, with over 50 Democrats, the Violence Against Women by Illegal Aliens Act. I do support the deportation of those who are here illegally. And more importantly, we need to have some way to incentivize legal immigration. My district and my state, we need workers here on visas, but we want them to come here legally. And so, how do we move forward, and how do we do that and incentivize legal immigration? And that's going to be the big question too.
But, I'd like to start with deporting those who are the most violent criminals, those who are raping people or their pedophiles or murderers, those should be the first ones to go. And let's figure out a way how we incentivize people to come here legally.
TAPPER: So -- no. I'm not going to debate you on the issue of the violent people, obviously out, but what about the people who are here illegally? And they are the ones doing -- working in kitchens and restaurants, and they're housekeepers. They're doing landscaping. They are otherwise peaceful contributors to society. They pay their taxes, even, etcetera, etcetera. Do they just get rounded up and deported? Is there -- you talk about legal immigration for individuals. Do they have to go back and then -- go back to their home country and then come back into the United States? How is it going to work? Because obviously we know 20 million, 25 million people, that's a lot of people, and it will have an impact on the economy.
Just explain to me how you envision it working, and whether Congress, assuming the Republicans keep control, will support a move to deport all of them. MACE: Right. Well, I'm not going to speak for President Trump on how
he wants to do it. But, I will say this. Yes, we need workers in this country. But, our visa program is broken. We have these arbitrary caps on H-1B and H-2B visas. My district relies on seasonal workers from other countries, but we have these arbitrary caps that limit the number of workers we can bring in. And they're seasonal. They come here for three months, six months, nine months. They go home. They reapply again. That system is broken. We need to fix that system and allow more workers to get on the worker visa program and come here legally, work, reapply as needed, however that program works.
With the deportation, I'm going to tell you, I mean, Trump not only won the Electoral College, he won the popular vote so far, as we can see, and it looks like most Americans are OK with the policy of deporting those who are here illegally. Get in line like everyone else who came here legally, do it the right way, and let's get it done. I mean, that's what the most people in this country want. Immigration was on the ballot. Women's issues were on the ballot this year, and they overwhelmingly chose Trump.
TAPPER: We did see abortion-related referenda pass in multiple states, including red states like Missouri and Montana and Arizona, supporting abortion rights, access to abortion. Where do you see that issue going? There are obviously Republicans in the House, Republicans in the Senate, that are going to continue to push for a national ban of some sort, even if it is at 15 weeks, 16 weeks. Do you think that that should go forward?
MACE: I don't see that on the immediate agenda at all, and the states that -- this is a state's rights issue in the states that are putting abortion as a ballot referendum statewide. That's the right move. I've supported that move. I would support it in South Carolina. But, there is a lot of common ground on other issues related to women. As Trump has said, he put it in the Republican Party platform this summer, he wants to protect women's access to IVF. Everyone in this country supports IVF. So, let's start there. Let's also find a way to protect women who are victims of rape or girls who are victims of incest.
[21:25:00]
Let's protect access to contraception and birth control, all those things that the vast majority of Americans, 99.9 percent of us agree on. That's where we need to start. That's what the mandate, I believe, is. And you've seen that in red states where people support abortion who are pro-choice.
And so, we really have to read the room as Republicans and find a way to balance our beliefs and believing in life, but also women's rights, because women care about it, and it's an issue that I've campaigned on. I've worked really hard on this. I have numerous bills that protect women's rights, both at the state and federal level, and that is a body of work that we as Republicans should encourage and work on. And I will be there standing in the brink, trying to make sure that we do right by women. It's my job. It's what voters asked me and elected me to do, and I will be right there with them. TAPPER: And what will you do if there is a move on when it comes to
the mailing or shipment of abortion medication, mifepristone? There are those, as you know, who want to invoke the Comstock Act to make it illegal to mail it. Would you support that? Will a Republican Congress --
MACE: Right.
TAPPER: -- support that?
MACE: Well, I spoke out against the Texas cases of mifepristone and also Trisomy 18, because I believe those rulings in court were unconstitutional. It is the law of the land. It's approved by the FDA. You don't have to agree with the FDA, but that's what the FDA decided and approved, just like the Alabama ruling, I was one of the first Republicans to speak out against that. The same thing with the Arizona abortion ruling from 1860 something. There are some laws out there that are archaic, and we want to make sure that we're not running down that rabbit hole. And I'm going to support women through and through, as I always have in my time in Congress.
TAPPER: All right. Congresswoman Nancy Mace, good to see you, and congratulations again. Thanks so much for being with us this evening.
MACE: Yes, sir.
TAPPER: Just ahead, Donald Trump is the first convicted felon ever elected President of the United States. Does his return to the White House mean all his legal troubles will disappear? And should people get rid of the check this box if you're a convicted felon from all job applications from now on?
Stay with us.
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TAPPER: And we're back with more of our special live coverage of Donald Trump's historic victory. The former President already surpassing the necessary 270 electoral votes, with just two more states still waiting to be projected, Arizona and Nevada. We do expect he will probably win those. But, I don't want to get ahead of myself. A big question yet to be answered with Donald Trump's election, what happens to his criminal and civil cases?
Let's bring in CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid. Paula, in just 20 days, the President-elect is due to be sentenced for those 34 felonies he was convicted of in the New York hush money cover-up case. You have some new reporting on that.
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I'm told that his legal team is going to try to make sure that sentencing never happens. As we know, their usual strategy is always to just try to get things delayed. But, here they're going to argue to the judge that the sentencing should never happen, because now that Trump is President-elect, they will say that he is entitled to the same constitutional protections as a sitting President, and should be protected from state actors, and in this case, state prosecutors.
Now, the judge overseeing that case, Judge Juan Merchan, he has given himself a deadline of November 12 to decide if the conviction against Trump should be tossed, based on the Supreme Court's recent ruling on immunity. If he tosses the conviction, there will be no sentencing. But, if that sentencing continues to go forward, this is the argument that the Trump team is going to make.
TAPPER: Paula, let's turn to the federal cases against Trump in Washington, D.C., and in Florida. What do you know about the next steps that Special Counsel Jack Smith intends to take?
REID: So, I've learned from my sources that today Jack Smith was actually talking to top leaders at the Justice Department about how to wind down both of these cases. I'm told that these conversations will continue for a few days. They are looking at Justice Department memos about how you can indict or prosecute a sitting President, trying to figure out how that applies to a President-elect. But, I'm told there is a lot to work through here. Of course, Trump was charged along with co-defendants. There is also questions about the future of the Special Counsel's Office.
But, based on my reporting, we should expect in the coming weeks that the Special Counsel's Office will try to wind down these cases, so Trump won't have to have his Justice Department fire Jack Smith, as he has threatened to do. But, I also want to remind people, Jack Smith has an obligation to submit a report, detailing all of his findings to the Attorney General, and we expect that the Attorney General will make that public, as he has done with other special counsel reports during his term.
TAPPER: All right, Paula. Thanks so much.
Let's go back to the panel here. Laura Coates is joining us. Is there any world in which any of these cases against Donald Trump could be picked up again in four years, the case in Georgia, or the two Jack Smith cases?
LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: I don't see a world where it is unless that world is somewhere other than Earth, and we all move ourselves there. But --
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: It's possible.
COATES: -- I think -- we're in a different reality these days. But, I think people are asking that question, because technically, you could try to toll something and say, well, look, if you're the President of the United States, you can't be encumbered by different litigation and beyond, although the Paula Reid case -- also Paula from back when the Clinton days, did tell us that --
TAPPER: Paula Jones. COATES: -- that Paula Jones, not Paula Reid, could tell us that you
actually can, in fact, be able to have a case about a President if it's not conduct during office for civil matters. But, I think there is very unlikely any world where we're going to have an instance where these will be told for a period of four years.
The question everyone is asking right now is about the sentencing date of this New York case. He is a 34-time convicted felon. The voters did not think that was sufficient in many ways to say which is qualifying for him. But, now the judge has a choice. Can you actually sentence him for all practical reasons? Can you give him a prison sentence? I doubt it. He is a President. You have a supremacy clause where you're going to have the state court try to interrupt someone's ability to take the office. But also you have other options available to you, probation, a non-actual prison sentence. But, you also have that Supreme Court case that said, well, how about immunity?
The judge has already said he has an internal deadline of November 12 to say, tell me if I should even be able to go forward with this action in and of itself because of it.
[21:35:00]
There is a lot of different moving parts that suggest that Trump will be Teflon done in the end.
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Jake, can I make two quick points?
TAPPER: Yeah. Yeah.
WALLACE: One -- excuse me, Donald Trump talked a lot about two tiers of justice in this country. If there is any indication of the two tiers of justice, it's what we've seen here, and the ability for -- it's true of any rich person with good lawyers, but especially Donald Trump to delay these cases. Three of the four cases probably will never be heard, and part of that is because of the way Trump's lawyers were able to work the system.
The other point I'd make is the Attorney General, Merrick Garland, he didn't bring the case on election interference or his Special Counsel Jack Smith until two and a half years after it happened. It wasn't until August of 2023. And I think a lot of people are going to say, why did it take so long? Why did it take two and a half years for him to bring the case about what happened on January 6th?
BASH: Going back to your first point, it's not just that it's two tiers of justice. It's -- let's just take a step back to the whole goal of the presidential run, initially wasn't just that he wanted to prove he wasn't a loser and maybe be President again. It was to get to this point where we are right now to totally avoid all of these prosecutions, all of the questions and federal charges having to do with January 6th, classified documents. That was part of the run. And --
WALLACE: It was classic get out of jail free card.
BASH: In fact, guess what? Here we are. It's happening.
WALLACE: Right.
COATES: It's working. And it might actually be part of the gamble that some who have been charged with January 6-related crimes are convicted. The Stewart Rhodes of the world, the Enrique Tarrio of the world, who thought maybe if I can hold my ground long enough that Donald Trump would ultimately pardon me. You've got --
BASH: And he said he will.
COATES: He said he will. He said if you're innocent, he might. There people who are already in the court this week who said, I want to delay my sentencing a little bit more because I think they might be --
TAPPER: You're talking about the January -- just to be clear here, you're talking about the January 6 rioters.
COATES: Yes.
TAPPER: Many of them have been convicted.
COATES: Hundreds.
TAPPER: Hundreds of them have been convicted. Do we really think that he is going to just blanket pardon all of them? I can certainly understand some of the people, some of the more celebrated cases, of the grandma who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, etcetera. But, some of those people violently assaulted police officers. Some of them caused grievous, long-term injury, if not worse, to police officers. We really think Donald Trump is going to pardon them?
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COATES: I think it's possible. He has said, if you're innocent, I will pardon. Now, he might have his own decision of what, in fact, innocence looks like, but he has his own definition for a lot of things, and frankly, it's been part of a -- part of the campaign promise he has made. Talking about Stewart Rhodes, I think it's, what, 22 years, (inaudible) years, if I'm not mistaken, the time they're actually intending to serve in prison. He very well could make a statement about this.
But, one case, I think, is very ironic that he really can't get out from under, that's the exonerated five defamation lawsuit they recently filed against him for his statements at the recent debate against Kamala Harris. We made a statement that they had, in fact, killed someone. They did not, or that they had --
TAPPER: Is that Central Park Five or the Exonerated Five?
COATES: That Exonerated Five --
TAPPER: Yeah.
COATES: -- in this instance, and a defamation case, one involving conduct outside of office, is not one in which he could escape having to deal with. And so, it's ironic that the very case that many people pointed to Donald Trump about as an illustration of his views on black men, on these men, young boys in particular, could be the one that has the longest staying power in the end.
TAPPER: Well, I just one last quick question, and I must ask you, Dana, yes or no, Joe Biden is going to pardon Hunter?
BASH: I don't know. I mean, it's a good question. I don't know. I'm out of the prediction business.
WALLACE: I know what I'll do. I would pardon them.
TAPPER: Yeah.
WALLACE: Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
BASH: What he or should he are different questions.
COATES: Well, Donald Trump told Howard -- I mean, in Hugh Hewitt an interview last week that he would contemplate pardoning Hunter Biden. Can you imagine being beholden to him if you're Joe Biden? I think not.
TAPPER: Very interesting. But, you think he would -- do you think he will, though? I know you're saying, if it was your son, you would.
WALLACE: He has said he wouldn't, but that was before he dropped out of the race. I was going to say, what you've got for lunch (ph)?
TAPPER: All right. Coming up next, legendary journalist Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein weigh in on Donald Trump's political comeback and what his reelection means for the future of democracy in America. Stay with us.
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[21:40:00]
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COOPER: And welcome back. Election Night in America Continued. The first Trump term was rife with scandals and controversies and leaks. Well, a second administration staffed with loyalists have similar levels of chaos. That remains to be seen.
Here now are two legendary journalists, best known for breaking the Watergate scandal that ultimately led to the resignation of former President Richard Nixon, Bob Woodward, the author of the new book "War", and Carl Bernstein, author of "Chasing History".
Bob, let me start with you. You've interviewed Trump at least 20 times, and I know recently you said that the former President is far worse than Richard Nixon. Obviously, a majority of voters were not concerned. I'm wondering what you thought last night as you watched results come in. What do you think of where we're at right now?
BOB WOODWARD, AUTHOR, "THE TRUMP TAPES", & ASSOCIATE EDITOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, it's the functioning of democracy. So, he is President-elect. There are lots of things to watch in what will be the new Trump administration. I just want to cite one of them, and that is the relationship Trump has with Putin, the Russian leader. I talked a couple of months ago to Dan Coats, the former Director of National Intelligence under Trump, and I said, what's going on in this relationship between Trump and Putin, and Dan Coats said it's almost it's so close it seems like it might be blackmail.
[21:45:00]
CIA Director Bill Burns said Putin manipulates. He is professionally trained to do that. Putin has got a plan just to be -- just to do this exactly when Trump and it's what he did when Trump was in office previously, and he is planning again at playing Trump. So, there is much to watch, particularly in that relationship.
COOPER: Carl, obviously, the -- whatever problems, the transition had the first time around for the -- in the new Trump administration, it seems like they've thought those out. They've learned from mistakes, and this will be far more, maybe perhaps at least, it seems like it may be more efficient in the transition with no -- if they have the Senate, if they have the House, obviously the Supreme Court. What do you make of what this administration might be like?
CARL BERNSTEIN, AUTHOR, "CHASING HISTORY", & JOURNALIST: Well, you've correctly pointed out that he has -- Trump now has institutional memory and knows how to use the levers of the presidency fairly effectively. But, the real question is a philosophical, moral, constitutional and legal one, and that is, how is he going to use the immense powers of the President of the United States?
He is someone whose life has been spent in retribution, seeking grievances, to get attention to himself, to get his position favored through these grievances, going after his enemies. This was a campaign for President that was about enemies he has threatened, that he wants to bring to heal and in the courtrooms what he calls the enemies from within, including the press, including members of the military who were his Chiefs of Staff, etcetera. The question is, he has this tremendous mandate to do good. He has been elected by this incredible margin, and let's hope that there are two Donald Trumps that he will use these enormous powers in a constitutional way.
I don't have any illusions about what it is he seeks to do in terms of his policies, but there are ways to do it legally. And in his first term, he went the other way. And so, I think the hope has to be that somehow, maybe in his early days here, he will read the Constitution of the United States and use it to help attain his goals.
COOPER: Bob, in your career or in all your time in Washington, has there ever been any kind of situation similar to where we are now?
WOODWARD: Well, the concentration of power in the presidency is absolutely astonishing. We've never had a President in the modern era that's come back. He -- Carl is right. He said and promised that he is going to settle scores. He has alienated lots of people in the national security establishment. You could name the generals and the defense secretaries and the secretaries of state who worked under him, who actually didn't even want Trump on the ballot. So, there is lots of suspicion in our business, the media. There is going to be lots of watching. There is incredible constitutional authority that a President has, and every step is going to be observed and monitored as it should.
But, Carl is right. Is there a Trump who will look at this as an opportunity to do good? When he was President the first time, he did and he absolutely flubbed the Coronavirus. He had the information. He could have saved all kinds of lives. He could have been the leader that in 2020 that was reelected because he was the hero to save lives. Instead, he kept waving it away and saying, oh, it's going to go away. It's not a problem.
The last conversation I had with him on July 20th, 2020, I asked him, what are you going to do?
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What are you going to do? What is your plan? Incredibly, he said, oh, don't worry. I'll have a plan in 106 days. 106 days was the election.
COOPER: Yeah.
WOODWARD: He was worried about the election, not saving the lives of people in his country.
COOPER: Yeah. Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, I appreciate you being with us tonight. Thank you.
Coming up next, the education divide that helped decide the presidential election. We're digging deeper into the exit polls and the keys to Donald Trump's victory.
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JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Welcome back. We are following historic developments unfolding here in the United States of America. This is Election Night in America Continued. Right now, Donald Trump is preparing for his return to the White House after beating Vice President Kamala Harris in a race unlike any in previous U.S. history.
Let's check back in with CNN's David Chalian. And David, you've been coming through our exit poll data. What can you tell us about the education divide in this election and how it shaped the race?
CHALIAN: Jake, you and I have talked about this at length. This is the dividing line of American politics, the education divide.
[21:55:00]
That's sort of how we sort ourselves politically these days. Look here among white voters with a college degree. White college graduates, they make up about a third of the electorate. Kamala Harris wins them 52 percent to Trump's 45 percent. Biden won these voters by three points four years ago. She expands that. This was her one area of growth, basically, to a seven-point advantage. Look at white non- college. This is the Trump base. This is about the same, 66 percent for Trump, 32 percent for Harris, four years ago, but he grew the share. The Trump turnout was on the rise. And so, they make up 39 percent of the electorate this time.
Now I want to take a look at voters of color who have a college degree. 65 percent go for Harris. 32 percent go for Trump. That is a 33-point advantage. Four years ago, Biden won the group by 43 points. So, this is part of Harris' diminishment with some voters of color. And if you look at voters of color without a college degree, we see a similar trend. Here, Harris wins them by 30 points, 64 percent to 34 percent. They make up 19 percent of the electorate. But, that 30-point gap, well, that was 46 points advantage for Biden four years ago.
So, John, you see that Biden's big advantages with some of these categories. Harris still wins them. She won them by less.
KING: She won them by less, and Trump expanded some of his opportunities with different groups.
Let's come in at the magic wand, and just show how this plays out at the map. You're looking at the state of the race where it is right now from a red/blue state perspective. But, let's just bring into the conversation, we will bring this out here, touch it again and come back out. So, now you're looking at the deeper the purple, the more people without a college education live in that part of the country, right? So, you see the deep shades of purple. If it's white, it's a higher rate of education. If it's purple, it's a lower.
So, let's just use battleground Pennsylvania as an example. Now you see this deep purple right across there, right? So, let's just draw it out. Let's just draw this out. Let me just go around here, come down to the southern border of the state. You come on back. It's a little rough, but I'm roughly tracing the deepest of the purple, right? So, why am I doing that? Now, we'll turn this off. OK. There is your non- college here, highest percentage of non-college educated voters in that swath right there. OK? Turn this off. Look at it. That's the Trump base, as David just laid out. It's like clockwork. If you find those voters on the map demographically, it's going to be Trump red. That's a huge source of turnout for him and the like.
So, let's bring it back out. Let me turn this off. We'll bring this back out and show you this again. This is non-college educated. We'll come back out. And again, you talk about what David just talked about, the inroads, right? So, you get into some of the cities and it's not as pronounced, right? Let's come over here to Wayne County, Michigan. You bring this up. Come on up here for me and bring this up. Detroit, not quite as purple as what you saw -- just saw in those rural areas of Pennsylvania, but it is. You do have, again, a higher population, a significant population, non-college educated. Why am I showing you this? Because let's go -- let's take a look at this now. Donald Trump gets 33 percent of the vote in Wayne County. That's
Detroit, Wayne, Michigan. The suburbs around it. Dearborn and Hamtramck are there. He gets up to 34 percent there. If you come back, I think it's a little bit higher. You say, Oh, that's not much. No, in a battleground state, that makes the difference.
One other key point, David noted, if you come to the suburbs, this is where you see it. I was just showing you in Pennsylvania, the idea of the non-college educated voters. Well, let's just look at Pennsylvania, right? If you look at Pennsylvania as a state, one of the reasons it's a battleground state, the battleground states tend to hug the national average. About 43 percent of Americans have a college degree. About 57 percent have no college degree. They hug the national average. But, now you see some of the diversity within the state. Watch the graph as I go. I was just down here in those counties that Trump was winning. You see what happens? The percentage of college degrees go way down, right, in the area of the Trump base.
So, let's bring this back out. That's statewide again, right? Watch the number. This is no college degree. That's college degree. Then you come in to the more affluent suburbs. Let's pick Montgomery County. You see the percentage of the college degrees dump -- jump out. Non- college degrees goes back. What happens? Biden won it big. Harris won it big. So, it is - -education is now the biggest dividing line in American politics, and you can look at the demographics, look at what the Census Bureau tells you who lives there, and then look and it'll be red or blue. It's -- Jake, it's almost automatic.
TAPPER: Fascinating stuff. And our --
The race for the White House is decided, and Donald J. Trump is getting an astounding second act in American politics, raising urgent questions about what lies ahead for the nation, for better or for worse. This is CNN's coverage of Election Night in America Continued. I'm Jake Tapper. Less than 24 hours after Donald Trump's paradigm shattering victory, both parties are assessing the historic consequences for the American people and for American democracy. We're getting new insights into how Mr. Trump so soundly defeated Vice President Kamala Harris, the mandate Republicans are now claiming, and the hand wringing and second guessing within the Democratic Party.
