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Trump Tells CNN He Called GOP Holdouts Ahead Of Speaker Vote; Soon: House Votes For Speaker As Johnson Rights To Keep Job; Burchett Says Some In GOP Are Still No On Johnson For Speaker. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 03, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But making it clear that there was no one waiting in the wings, at least in his mind, to be speaker, and that he thought that Johnson was going to be successful today.

Now, I did ask him about our reporting that he had been calling these holdouts, and he confirmed that he had, including speaking to representative Chip Roy. On that, specifically, he said he believed that Chip Roy would do the right thing for the country. Obviously, Jake, we are going to have to wait and see how that aligns with Chip Roy believes is right for the country and what Donald Trump believes is right for the country.

But he also insisted -- he wasn't telling the holdouts anything. He was just saying, telling them that this would be a good add to the win that they had in the presidential election. A big, beautiful exclamation point is how he put it. So, obviously very Trump rhetoric right there, but he said he's going to be watching all of this unfold. He's very interested in how the votes go down, and that he's going to be spending the day looking at this to see how exactly this plays out.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. We just saw Chip Roy on the floor there -- and there that's Jamie Raskin. There's Chip Roy. Congressman from Texas on the phone, leaving the floor of the House of representatives to take this phone call. Who knows, perhaps, from somebody whose last name is Trump.

And Chip Roy, Dana Bash, very sincere, very earnest believer in the fact that the United States spends too much money compared to how much money it takes in from taxes, and that this deficit and debt problem is one that needs drastic measures as soon as possible. He's very sincere about that, Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: No question about it. He is a holdover from what was the tea party, which is what ushered in the House Republican majority, what now almost 15 years ago. So, I want to bring in my esteemed colleagues here, David Chalian and Kasie Hunt. Nice to see you. We're so excited. This is always an exciting day.

I want to pick up on what Kristen was reporting about from her conversation with Donald Trump. And that is the approach that I am told by a senior House Republican source, Mike Johnson is taking. And that is -- that quote today will either go smoothly or set up a showdown with the House Freedom Caucus versus MAGA.

Johnson is Trump's pick for Trump's agenda. It's one in the same. So that, you know, the House Freedom Caucus is another way of talking about what Jake was just talking about, of course, which is the people who are fundamental on spending, on debt, on deficit. Now there are other agenda items that they have but that is the core of their mission.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF & POLITICAL DIRECTOR: And many of them put in a letter so that Speaker Johnson could see plainly what their areas of concern are about his leadership to date, and a lot of it has to do with spending. You saw just pictures there as Speaker Johnson working the floor as he is still trying to make sure all the votes are in place for him. And you don't usually get to see all of this, right?

This is Chip Roy getting up and taking a phone call in the back of the chamber. We only get to see that because Congress hasn't formally convened yet and been sworn in, and the normal rules of what we get to see on the House floor apply.

But you are right. This is a -- this is a moment for this Republican Party, for this speaker to navigate this historic narrow majority, at a time when Donald Trump believes he's sweeping in with a decisive victory in the presidential election, and it could be a bit of a speed bump right out of the gate here as he's preparing to take over full Republican control of Washington and act an agenda. He's not looking for speed bumps, and that's why he's working the phones.

KASIE HUNT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, we can see -- as you know, we can literally see him doing this. And it strikes me that, I mean, Dana, when you and I -- I mean, you had been covering the Hill for a long time when I started covering it. And the House of Representatives was like, predictable, right? It wasn't like an interesting -- everybody wanted to cover the Senate. You knew the outcome was going to be pre-ordained in the House.

And usually when you go to the floor, you have the votes. It is worth, I think, stepping back and understanding how remarkable it is that Mike Johnson doesn't know if he's going to have the votes to be speaker on this first ballot.

BASH: But I -- that's such an important point Kasie, and that my understanding in talking to House leadership sources and members as well is a big reason why Mike Johnson is trying to kind of lay down the gauntlet today and not make what a lot of people thought was a mistake that Kevin McCarthy made when he was so desperate to get that speaker's gavel, which is to cut deals.

Because his belief is that if you cut deals with Chip Roy or others who are holdouts now, not only will it be hard to keep those deals, which is what Kevin McCarthy found with spending. But more importantly, it sets a tone that the speaker is not fully in charge. CHALIAN: One Republican said it to me as it's like handing the speakers gavel to all these individual members that -- and the point is to maintain the power in the speaker's gavel. So yes, it does complicate that, and Kevin McCarthy learned that really quickly. Obviously, Johnson wants to set the tone. I take your sources. It's not clear if he's totally in control and able to do that. And that's the value of what makes everything unpredictable now, of course, a one seat majority.

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I mean, I remember, a year ago, I was in Iowa, New Hampshire, with you guys following at certain points. Tom Massie, one of the definitive, and Chip Roy, they were the DeSantis' road show. They were not on board with Donald Trump and his reelection campaign. So, these are people who are used to being outside where the majority of Republicans are right, Dana.

BASH: Before you come in Kasie, I just want to tell our viewers what's happening on the floor. There is going to be a prayer. There might have already been a prayer, and then there's going to be a quorum call to literally take the role of people, to make sure that everybody is there as they get ready to do the business of what we've been talking about, which won't start until one o'clock eastern.

But as we're looking at this, there you see Nancy Pelosi, Jake mentioned that earlier, who is recovering from a broken hip, talking to Hakeem Jeffries and Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Hakeem Jeffries, of course, the current House Democratic leader.

I'm not sure if we see it there, but we certainly saw some shots before the reminder that there - -this is a family affair. This is a time when -- because the House is elected every two years, it's not just the members who have worked their behinds off. It's their families who have been a part of, in most cases, the effort to get them elected.

And I was talking to one member who this -- for whom this will be the third swearing in, who was so frustrated, or, I would say, frustrated slash, hopeful that, because the first time was COVID, so their family couldn't come. Last time, the family ended up just going home because it took so many days to get a speaker, they weren't even sworn in.

So, the hope is that these family members who are there will not have to wait and wait and wait in order to see their loved ones sworn in --

HUNT: Because the speaker has to be selected before the entire Congress can be put into power. No, that's absolutely true. And I was reminded of the families when we were walking through here, it's totally crowded.

BASH: Oh, he already looks tired.

HUNT: He does. He does, in fact. I mean, Dana, I think one of the things too, that's worth pointing out, and Patrick McHenry, who's, you know, exiting the stage, leaving the Congress close with Kevin McCarthy, was obviously the person who served in the interim there for a little while.

He noted something that, you know, I think has been one of the driving forces behind the change that I've certainly seen in this institution, which is the incentives are totally different than what they used to be. It used to be that playing the inside game was the best way to make a difference. Was the best way to become well known. It was building relationships inside the House, inside the Congress, working the hallways and the phones.

And now it's much more an outside game, right? It's a game for attention. It's a game to kind of grab the headlines, at least. That's how a lot of these newer members see it. And each cycle, we have seen more of the kind of serious institutionalists leave the stage. And that's part of why, no matter what happens today, if Johnson gets this gavel, it's just the first of -- I don't know how many times we may be sitting here, wondering if he can get it done.

BASH: You mentioned Patrick McHenry. He is actually going to be sitting with our colleague, Jake later in the hour. I want to go back to Jake now, and I know you have other colleagues there who have information they want to give us.

TAPPER: So, one of the things that's so interesting about what's going on and all of the unknowns is we do not know how many members of Congress are there right now, and that will, of course, determine how many votes determine who is the speaker of the House. If all 435 members of the House were there, then 218 is the number.

We don't know that right now. They're going to have to take what's called a quorum call to see how many members are there. Let's go to Phil Mattingly right now. He's at the Magic Wall. So, Phil, walk us through the speaker vote and also why Speaker Johnson has such a small window for success here.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Let's start with that small window, Jake. Obviously, we have been talking about the balance of power. Coming out of the November elections, Republicans won 220 seats and Democrats won 215. We know Matt Gaetz had resigned. He had been the attorney general selection for the president-elect. He pulled out of that effort and said he's not going to come back. So that would make it 219 to 215.

For context, we keep talking about how razor thin the margin is, how narrow this majority is. The last time the majority was this small was 1917, that's how long it's been, more than a hundred years. It is a very, very thin margin. So, what's actually going to happen today, where we're going to see how that margin actually plays out for Speaker Mike Johnson.

Dana was just talking about call to order by the Clerk of the House. We've seen that following the chapter in prayer. Then the clerk would call for the electoral confirmations, then a quorum call to make sure that get a number of people that are actually there. What we're actually leading to now, and it will include nomination speeches for Hakeem Jeffries and for Mike Johnson is to the roll call vote.

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Now, anybody who watches the House closely and everybody should, it's a wonderful institution, would know that usually House members, they vote electronically. They put cards in. That's how the votes come up. This is different. This will be done by voice vote. Every single member will be called out by name.

They will be able to announce who they support for speaker of the House. They can technically vote for anybody. They don't have to vote for Mike Johnson or Hakeem Jeffries. They can put any name out there that they want. They also could decide to vote or to say that they're voting present or not vote at all.

So, the winner, who will win the speaker of the House race, it'll be the person with the majority of the votes cast by a candidate name. So, what do we know about that right now? If Matt Gaetz does not show up, which is our understanding going into the day, always got to be a little careful about that.

We know there's 434 members that are supposed to be here. Whether or not that happens is still an open question. We're getting a sense of that of the quorum call, that would mean Mike Johnson would need 218 votes in order to win the speakership.

Now, here's where it gets difficult because this is very, very tough math. We expect all Democrats to vote for Hakeem Jeffries. This is a party line vote. Almost always is. So, if you have 215 Democrats that are all going to vote for Hakeem Jeffries, and you know that you have 219 Republicans expected to be present, and Mike Johnson needs 218 Republicans to become speaker of the House. That means he can lose a grand total of one vote.

And here's where it gets even more complicated. Who are we watching for throughout the course of this day? Well, we know one individual, one member of Congress, Thomas Massie, has already said definitively he's a no vote. That means Mike Johnson cannot lose any more if every single member votes for somebody.

Now it's worth noting. Greg Steube just told our colleagues he will be supporting Mike Johnson. But if you look at this dozen plus members, Eli Crane also saying he will support Johnson. So, this list is starting to get smaller.

What's interesting about this list is this roll call will be called out Jake alphabetically, which means before you even get to Massie, you'll see Andy Biggs, Lauren Boebert, Tim Burchett, Eric Burlison, Michael Cloud, Andrew Clyde, we know Crane is going to vote for Johnson, Andy Harris.

You will have a very good sense, very early on. If Mike Johnson has problems worth noting, even though recent history says multiple rounds of speaker fights, seems like it's the norm. It's actually not. Manu alluded to this earlier. Before Kevin McCarthy, back in the last Congress, there had not been a multiple round speaker fight since 1923, a hundred years. We'll see if we continue with what's been recent precedent. If we go back to the norm, which is one round new speaker of the House, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Phil Mattingly, thanks so much. And if you're looking at these images on the floor of the House, and you're wondering, boy, these seem new. We don't see images like this. That's right, you don't. Normally, the C-SPAN cameras are kept under very strict lock and key and controlled by the speaker as to what images they can get. Usually, you just see images like that one right there, and a couple other close ups of people who are speaking. You don't see the candid shots of people in the audience, but we don't have a speaker right now.

So, there you go. There is Congresswoman, former speaker, Nancy Pelosi, back from her recovery after breaking her hip overseas, being greeted by colleagues who are excited to see her, and that's normally the kind of thing we don't get to see. You can see it if you're like in the visitor gallery in the House, but you don't get to see it on your C-SPAN cameras. It's one of the reasons why I do like this day as the elected speaker because more transparency the better as far as I'm concerned.

We have with us as Dana Bash mentioned, a former speaker of sorts for 23 days -- for 23 days during the last Congress, Congressman Patrick McHenry of the great state of North Carolina, filled in as speaker. He was not elected per se, so he does get a portrait, but I'm told it was a very small portrait on the halls of Congress and he's here today. Thank you so much for being here. Good to see you. I'm going to call you Mr. Speaker, if that's OK with you? Is it?

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY (R-NC): that's fine. I was a committee chair, and I actually sought that. I didn't really seek the speakership.

TAPPER: So, you did not seek the speakership?

MCHENRY: And after the experience, you understand why people don't seek the speakership.

TAPPER: Yeah. Some people have greatness thrust upon them. So, you've been through several these votes before. We're not going to -- we're not going to know what happens until the voting actually starts. What -- do you have a prediction? Do you think he's going to get it on the first vote?

MCHENRY: Wel, first of all -- yeah, I think -- I think Mike Johnson gets the speakership on the first ballot, first round of ballots. We will know the first announcement will be the definitive one. That's my view of the day and that's my prediction.

But what is different about opening day is you said this. You don't know who's here. So, do we have 435 members? Is someone ill. When Speaker Pelosi came back to the speakership for her fourth and final term, who had COVID. Did they have special provision so they could be there? And she did provide special provision for members who did have active COVID then. We found out afterwards.

So, all those things you find out after the fact. We have people that have illnesses in the family. So, all the stuff you have to find out in live time, that's one. Two, the whip traditionally does the work of knowing what the House floor vote is. In this setting, they do the bed check to make sure that members are there.

[12:15:00]

The speaker has to do this vote on their own because whoever -- whoever becomes speaker, they have to actually put that coalition together for them as a very bespoke process that is usually done behind closed doors. And then the final thing is this, you come in to the House floor some members for the first time, right? What you're seeing right now is Speaker Johnson and former speaker the state House of North Carolina, Tim Moore taking a picture.

TAPPER: OK.

MCHENRY: They're taking a picture. It is a -- it's an eventful day for most new members.

TAPPER: It's their first day of school, really.

MCHENRY: First day of school.

TAPPER: Yeah.

MCHENRY: And you're taking pictures with the teacher. You're not going to do that in the last day of school, or certainly like not the second day of school. But you walk on the House floor and the lights are brighter. The place feels different. People have their family there. There's more press there than you're likely going to see at a two-year time outside of the State of the Union.

So, you have to see the speaker vote in live time to see what people will really do. People will say things as reporters know, behind closed doors and about their bravery, but if they have to step out in front of the cameras, they will say something different and do something different. Members are no different than people -- the populace, some better, some worse, but they're no different than every member of society.

TAPPER: And there's a former speaker Pelosi right there, giving a thumbs up. There's a sense of on the first day of the new Congress, there's a sense of optimism, of hope, what everything that can be achieved, what might be achieved, et cetera. Is that inclined that feeling is that inclined to help the speaker win on the first ballot?

Or, well -- because I'm just thinking there might be some House Freedom Caucus members, Chip Roy, one that comes to mind from Texas, who think, will we finally have control of the House, the Senate and the White House at the same time. And this -- and with such a narrow majority, I have more power than I've ever had in my life, and I can really force these spending reductions the way I want to. So, it could work the other way too.

MCHENRY: It could be, but on opening day, what you're trying to do is get the process right, the rules right. The rules package was decided by the majority party before this opening day. That's already done. So, members that want to hold out to do that, they have to drag along all the other Republican colleagues to their whim and wish, they're not going to likely get that.

Second process. What is our goal setting? How are we going to -- what do we do first? What do we do second? What's in the first reconciliation bill? What's in the second reconciliation bill? Those types of things are goal setting that should be done between the election day and the first speaker vote.

What we saw two years ago with Speaker McCarthy's vote is some people want to do it live and wanted to have maximum leverage there, with the only Republican intent, with the Democratic Senate, Democrat president, Speaker McCarthy had -- truly had to do that vote on his own. Mike Johnson doesn't have to do this vote on his own.

TAPPER: Yeah. And the rules that Speaker McCarthy agreed to in order to get the speakership were the ones that ultimately paved the road for his demise, right? Because it was any one member of the House can cause or can raise a motion to vacate to get rid of the speaker and he agreed to that, to get the speakership. And then Matt Gaetz did it to him not long after. Is this rules package does not have that or does it?

MCHENRY: It does not have that. It has a different threshold that the speaker negotiated with members of the Republican Party, and that is a nine votes motion to vacate. Now for the totality of the history of the House, there's only been a two-year time where we had this rule. Speaker Pelosi negotiated this and said, you have to have the majority party, have a majority vote to unseat the speaker of the House.

I think that makes a lot of sense. That's what parliamentary democracies do. That was smart negotiating, and she was adept negotiator on that. We did not have that point of leverage. She did that with a Democratic president in the White House. Speaker McCarthy didn't have that leverage with the Democratic president in the White House and being a Republican.

TAPPER: Yeah, all right. Thank you so much. We're going to keep coming back to you and we got a lot of other people here on the panel to talk more. We're keeping an eye on the House floor, of course, as we get closer to the actual vote for speaker the House. We're standing by for updates on all the wrangling behind the scenes. Does Mike Johnson have the votes he need to become speaker? Our special coverage continues after we squeeze in this quickly.

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[12:20:00]

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BASH: And we're back with our special coverage from Capitol Hill. The new Congress is in session and the House is moving toward a critical vote on whether or not Mike Johnson will be reelected as its speaker. It is not certain how that vote will go. Even with Johnson's endorsement, really important endorsement from president-elect Donald Trump.

I want to turn to Lauren Fox right here on Capitol Hill. Lauren, I know you have been talking to members, including key holdouts, people who have not yet decided whether they will vote for Mike Johnson. What are they telling you?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So, a few pieces of good news. If you're Mike Johnson going into this vote in just a couple of minutes, you're starting to hear from some of those holdouts. Eli Crane is saying that he is now going to be backing Johnson on the floor. We also know representative Steube is going to be backing Johnson.

And just a couple of minutes ago, I talked to Representative Rich McCormick, who told me he was undecided until this morning, but he has ultimately gotten assurances that he needed from the speaker and Trump's team that they are going to be pursuing major legislation in one big package that is making him feel comfortable. So that's some good news for Speaker Mike Johnson.

[12:25:00]

But on the other side of that, there's still a lot of uncertainty because he can only afford to lose one Republican. We know Thomas Massie is already going to be voting against him. And this is what Representative Tim Burchett, another holdout, told me just moments ago.

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REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): It doesn't really matter what I'm going to do. I think you'll see some members pass, and then we'll go into another round. That's what I think. And then we'll do it from there. If somebody passes, and Massie votes no, and Democrats don't vote for him, Johnson then -- we're back at round two. And I think that's what's getting ready to happen.

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FOX: And of course, that's his prediction, Dana, but he's really close to a lot of these conservative members. He has a lot of conversations with these folks. And again, because Johnson has just this narrow majority, and there's still holdouts who are demanding things from him, I think it's still possible that this goes multiple rounds, Dana.

BASH: Yeah. That conversation that you just had, Lauren, is so key, as you said, that member is -- has not yet said whether he's going to vote yes or no for Johnson. But the fact that he is having conversations with those who are still on the fence and that is his prediction really is telling. Thank you for that, Lauren.

I want to go over to Manu Raju, who of course, is also on Capitol Hill. Manu, what's the speaker saying right now?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Actually, he just sent a message to those very holdouts about some of the concerns that they have raised, mainly about government spending and how to they wanted some commitments on how Johnson would legislate under single party rule, and he tries to go in their direction.

The question is, will that be enough to win them over? He put on a lengthy post on that. Just moments ago, saying that as the speaker, he would commit to create a working group, he said, of independent experts looking potential waste in government spending.

He also talked about trying to task that working which will create audits of federal agencies. He talked about using the House committees, the existing House committees to indicate take what he calls, quote, aggressive reviews, to expose what he calls irresponsible or illegal practices of federal agencies.

Whether this goes long far enough, remains to be seen. This vote, of course, is going to happen on the House floor in just a matter of minutes, but some of those members who have held out for their support, including Congressman Chip Roy. You guys have been talking about others as well, have demanded that Johnson agree to changes over what they call structural reforms to the institution to go do oversight of the federal government, of federal agencies.

Will that be enough to win them over? That's going to be a big question. But no doubt about, this is all part of Johnson's efforts to try to win over those holdouts at this key moment, given that he has no margin for error. Dana.

BASH: All right, Manu, thank you so much for that reporting. Really interesting. He's saying that he's not doing individual deals, but that tweet sounds like an attempt at a bit of a concession. Whether or not, as you said, it's going to play. That's the question right now.

We're going to stick in a quick break as we watch and wait for the vote for House speaker to get under way. That's going to happen really soon after the nominating speeches. We'll carry it all live. Just ahead how president-elect Trump's agenda and even his inauguration could be put at risk if today's vote turns into a day's long brawl, never mind the certification of his presidency. We'll be right back.

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