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Senior Adviser: Trump's Mindset Today Is "Pure Vindication"; Soon: Congress Certifies Trump's Election Victory. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 06, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This time in the aftermath of January 6, 2021, Congress have to substantially raise the threshold. Now one-fifth of the House and one-fifth of the Senate need to agree to have a vote to overturn any of the states that certified electoral results.

That is simply not going to happen here, as both sides want to demonstrate that a return to normalcy of sorts after what happened four years ago, and also legislative action to prevent anything from happening like we saw last time. And don't expect Kamala Harris to do anything other than certify those electoral results, even as difficult as it undoubtedly will be for her. Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: That's right. I was told by a source familiar with her thinking. Jake, I'm going to throw back to you that she is stealing herself for this moment where she is going to be presiding over her own loss. Thank you, Manu. Jake, back to you.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: All right. On this January 6, president-elect Trump is at Mar-a-Lago in Florida on the brink of his return to the White House. CNN's Jeff Zeleny is in West Palm Beach, Florida. Jeff, what do we know about president-elect Trump's mindset on this day that holds so much significance for his political fate past and present?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Jake, we do know that president-elect Donald Trump is it Mar-a-Lago, as you said, and he is expected to be watching these events unfold. Talking to one senior adviser, they describe his mindset. They characterize this as pure vindication, pointing out the number of electoral votes. 312 that he won to Kamala Harris's 226.

That is the mindset going into the president-elect, as he is just two weeks away in this hour from becoming the 47th president. He's already been working at a breakneck pace to fill his government. Of course, the confirmation hearings will be forthcoming in the Senate. But Jake, it is a remarkable turnaround.

What was a deep political liability, a deep political wound has become a strength and a political asset, largely through whitewashing of history. But looking at a Truth Social post this morning that the president-elect posted. It was an image from four years ago of his supporters on the National Mall as he addressed them on the ellipse. That is what he posted this morning.

So that is a sense. There is no, obviously, sense of acknowledging the true events of four years ago. He is looking forward. He had a radio interview with Hugh Hewitt this morning, also making that point very clear. He says there is no resistance that there was eight years ago. People are more with him.

Jake, there is a different feel. There is no question here, but we're not expecting to hear from the president-elect that today. We're likely told he will speak tomorrow, but there's no doubt he's watching. And again, pure vindication, I'm told, is his mindset.

TAPPER: Jeff Zeleny at Mar-a-Lago, thank you so much. And let's bring in my panel. And you know, it's really difficult to think about the majesty of this day without reflecting upon what happened four years ago. Jeff talked about whitewashing.

I want to run a little clip from four years ago, which really required no great precision by me, but it was ongoing when it was very -- and very easy to predict. If we can run that clip, this is four years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I want people to remember how they feel watching these images of the United States Capitol being taken over, and this -- these clear acts of sedition and violence and terrorism by Trump supporters, because there's going to be an attempt to whitewash and pretend this didn't happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: There's going to be an attempt to whitewash and pretend this didn't happen. And in fact, there was, and for millions of Americans, it worked.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It was very successful. I think anyone would argue. If you're a critic of Trump's or if you're a fan of his, and I was thinking, you know, as you look at the contrast of four years ago, and today it really could not be clearer, especially how Trump himself and those around him view it.

And you know, I was there covering the White House that day. Talking to people who worked there, who were calling, who were horrified by what they were watching. A lot of them resigned that day and said that, you know, they never be in his orbit again. Many of them are trying to get back into it right now, as he's preparing to be --

TAPPER: Betsy DeVos, for example.

COLLINS: For example, the cabinet secretary who resigned and has been around trumpet fundraising meetings recently, but also Trump himself. You know, obviously that day, he resisted saying anything about it. He resisted coming out and telling people to go home, calling them peaceful protesters, until the, you know, his daughter Ivanka Trump stepped in. But look at what he did this past weekend at Mar-a-Lago. He held a screening of a documentary focused on John Eastman, who of course, was the famous attorney who urged Vice President Mike Pence, saying that he did have the legal authority to stop the certification of Joe Biden's win --

TAPPER: Which he was wrong.

COLLINS: Which he was wrong, but Trump held a screening this weekend, praising him, saying that he was correct, which obviously he wasn't. He lost his law license over that. He's been charged criminally over that. But it just speaks to how Trump is viewing this now as he's preparing to be back on those steps, in the images you were just showing in a matter of weeks from now.

[12:05:00]

TAPPER: Yeah. And people died that day, four Trump supporters died, a police officer named Brian Sicknick after being violently confronted by the mob died. Other police officers died by suicide after the trauma of the day. You talked to Gladys Sicknick, Brian Sicknick's mother.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Brian's mother. Yeah. she -- I said, how are you doing? And understandably, she said, I'm a mess today. And it is very hard for her to see Donald Trump reelected, coming into power. Of course, she lost her son, but she said to me, "nothing will bring back Brian or the others who helped defend democracy that day, not to mention all the cops who were hurt."

I think it's important just to keep in mind, today is going to be surreal. Four years ago, is surreal. But today is going to be surreal for a lot of politicians. For Nancy Pelosi, for all of the leadership who were evacuated that day, for Liz Cheney, who in effect left her party became vice chair of the January 6 committee, for Mitch McConnell, you know, so much has changed.

But I think we should also take a moment to remember what the Capitol Hill police, the D.C. Metropolitan Police, other members of law enforcement who all came from the Justice Department, DEA, ATF to try to help that day.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think, look -- I think it's important to celebrate the normal of today that this is going to play out the way it was supposed to play out four years ago, the way it's supposed to play out every four years. This is supposed to be America's example to the world, the peaceful transfer of power that didn't happen four years ago.

And you're right about the whitewashing. You were right that day, and you are right now that it continues. It didn't just happen throughout the campaign. It will continue throughout the next four years of the Trump presidency.

So, whether you voted for Donald Trump or not, celebrate today, but to the points just made, don't forget what happened four years ago. It's one of the darkest, most ominous, embarrassing days in American history. In America's role, as it likes to say, is the beacon of democracy in the world.

We have a lot to talk about today, right? We'll talk about in two weeks, when Donald Trump comes back to comes back to office. Some people are excited by that. Other people are repulsed by that. Today was a day that, you know, we've been doing this a long time. All of us at this table didn't actually get much attention until four years ago because it was so routine.

TAPPER: Yeah.

KING: It was quick news coverage, not daily news coverage, not your whole team deployed, not worried about security, not eyes on everybody and everything. I was just flying home from a vacation, and they were checking IDs at the gates of flights to come to D.C. because of January 6. That only happened right after 9/11, if you remember, you know.

So that's the -- we just live in a different world now. Hopefully at the end of this day, we will say it went well. It went smoothly. It went the way it was supposed to go. But to the idea of the whitewashing and the forgetting for those police officers and those who were hurt, those who are still hurt and suffering from that. And many who will be there today, doing their jobs, who were there four years ago because they're career members of the force.

They will be there, imagine being in their boots today, standing there today, having been there four years ago. And you know, we expect, and we pray it goes well. But that has to be a pretty to go back to the word surreal, a surreal day to be a member of law enforcement in Washington, D.C., who was there four years ago, standing there right now, thinking, here we go.

TAPPER: And Kaitlan, I mean, there was a purpose to the whitewashing. The purpose was to get Donald Trump back into the White House. If you look at approval ratings for Donald Trump in January 2021, he had a 36 percent -- Trump favorability at 34 percent approval rating, and at the time of the election, that's a 48 percent approval rating. Still not a majority, but enough for a presidential win.

COLLINS: And also, I can't overstate how -- for like -- how just that period right after January 6 and what Trump's orbit looks like will shape what his second term looks like. And this is something that's really important for everyone to watch, in terms of who's around Trump and how the kind of axis of influence around him has shifted, because he was -- he was abandoned by a lot of Republicans, a lot of his own staffers and employees in the days after that.

And he had a very small circle around him that traveled with him to Mar-a-Lago, that stayed in touch with him. And a lot of those people have become some of his closest advisers that are still helping make key decisions about who's going to be in-charge of key agencies and critical roles in this incoming administration. And that period has really changed his view of this and what that's going to look like. But in terms of the whitewashing and the purpose of it, you know, one thing that he always said to his attorneys over the last few years as he was being indicted for his attempts to overturn the election was, you know, if he could just stay out of jail long enough, they could just delay things long enough that he would win and that he would be back and here he is. And the other key thing to remember is he's more emboldened now, probably than he's ever been since the 2016 win.

[12:10:00]

TAPPER: With your guardrails, an important point, because the people who went down to Mar-a-Lago with him were people who unlike then Speaker Kevin McCarthy, unlike then Republican Leader Mitch McConnell thought January 6 was just fine. Thought it was just fine what happened that day and those are the people who now have his ear the most.

Still ahead, as we await the final certification of president-elect Trump's victory, we're going to talk more about the impact of that attack on the Capitol four years ago. Key Republican member of the former January 6 House committee joins us next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Members of the new 119th Congress are making their way through a snowstorm to Capitol Hill, where they'll formally certify the results of the 2024 presidential election ahead of Donald Trump's inauguration two weeks from now. Welcome back to our special coverage.

This date, January 6, will forever be associated with the unprecedented attack on the U.S. Capitol four years ago. CNN's Tom Foreman reminds us, it wasn't always that way.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): It was never supposed to be like this. Congressional certification of the vote for president is typically a short official affair, largely ceremonial. It was that way when George W. Bush won, when Barack Obama won, when Donald Trump won the first time. It started that way just after 1 pm on January 6, 2021, and the process should be like that this year.

The votes are brought in. The joint meeting of Congress is called to order. Then in alphabetical order, the electoral results from each state are reported and added up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joseph R. Biden Jr.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three votes. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Six votes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine votes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seven votes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 55 votes.

FOREMAN (voiceover): And when it is done, the winning presidential and vice-presidential candidates are declared. Only in 2021, it didn't go like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's have trial by combat.

FOREMAN (voiceover): Even before lawmakers convened then President Donald Trump was whipping a rally of his supporters into a frenzy.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL- ELECT: We fight like hell, and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

FOREMAN (voiceover): When many marched on the Capitol, all hell broke loose. Police were attacked, windows smashed, officers injured. By 2:30 the chambers were being evacuated and lawmakers rushed to safe hiding places. Among them Trump's running mate, Vice President Mike Pence, who refused Trump's calls to stop the certification amid unfounded allegations of voter fraud.

The rioter was shot and killed by a police officer. The chambers were overrun. Interlopers filled the halls and ransacked offices. Trump's allies pleaded for him to speak up, and he finally did after more than three hours.

TRUMP: We had an election that was stolen from us. You have to go home now. We have to have peace.

FOREMAN (voiceover): By 8 pm the Capitol was secure again.

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES: Those who wreaked havoc in our Capitol today, you did not win.

FOREMAN (voiceover): And lawmakers who never abandoned the building entirely returned to their work. At nearly four in the morning, incoming President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris were certified.

PENCE: Joseph R. Biden Jr. of the state of Delaware has received 306 votes.

FOREMAN (voiceover): As the official and legal winners. Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: That's how we remember the day now, question is, will history remember it that way four or 40 years from now? Congressman Kinzinger, you were -- you were in the House. You actually tweeted at 4:30 pm, four years ago on this day, you tweeted, this is a coup attempt. Do you think that history will remember this the way it actually happened?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, I do. I do. Look, we're in this emotion, you know, Donald Trump got defeated. He convinced. I mean, look, he convinced his base that he -- that election was stolen from them. And that for four years, built this, like, intense anger where they truly believe this deep state, you know, garbage was happening.

He's going to be president now for four years. He's going to own everything that happens in the economy, everything that happens in the world, and that like -- excitement that like we've been robbed, will wear off, and history has this amazing ability to accurately reflect the happenings of that day.

And so, while maybe today, it's kind of surreal that we're here four years later after that and putting Donald Trump back in the presidency. History will not be kind to him. And I'm glad you brought up my tweet, because I actually had this ready to go.

Speaker Johnson tweeted this on January 6, 2021, I unambiguously condemn in the strongest possible terms, any and all forms of violent protests. Any individual who committed violence today should be prosecuted the fullest extent of the law. It goes on for a whole other thing.

And now that's going to be a question when Donald Trump gets into office and decides, does he want to prosecute the people that looked into what happened on January 6 and embarrassed him? And does he want to pardon the people that actually did what Speaker Johnson just four years ago, said they should be prosecuted.

COOPER: I mean, this is remarkable. I mean, if you think for four years ago, back on this day, the idea that the former president, not only would become a president again, but would be able to convince so many people that, you know, I mean, he kept repeating, it's a day of love and that's the line he'll use moving forward.

[12:20:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, it actually is not surprising that Trump was able to do that because the very fact that January 6 happened in the first place is evidence of Trump's political power. Those people were there because of him.

You saw in that video that you just played, he said, the election was stolen from us. He said that even as people were breaking into the Capitol, Trump never backed down from the fundamental lie that was at the heart of January 6, and he still does not to this day.

So, January 6, I think, is a symptom of a broader problem, which is that there are millions of people in this country who are willing to believe anything that Trump says, even if it's a blatant, provable lie. And for the Congress, I think the members, some of whom are in the chamber today -- will be in the chamber today, the members who back Trump up, who continue to try to gaslight the country about what happened that day, who insisted this was predominantly peaceful, when we all saw with our own eyes, what happened, those people are still in power.

And I think that the next four years is going to be heavily influenced by their attempts, both in terms of rhetoric and in terms of official actions, because there's a lot that they want to do in Congress to try to codify this idea that January 6 was not violent.

All of their words and their actions will probably be pushing toward that, and we should be aware of that and guard against it, because for the rest of us who live in the real world, we saw what happened on January 6.

We see the charges, hundreds of people charged with violent offenses that that is the truth. Those are the facts. And even a Congress who might attempt to try to put out some kind of statement that says that this was a peaceful day, that's not going to change what we all know happened.

COOPER: Alisyn, you've talked about the geo, you know, Democrats and Republicans kind of living in two different worlds or realities when it comes to January 6.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. Well, I remember, I was working on the Biden transition that day. We were preparing to roll out the Secretary of Education. Earlier that morning, people in the Democratic Party were celebrating because we had won Georgia. You know, for the first time, there was so much happening in our democracy that made Democrats on that day proud, until what happened on the lips and then on to the Capitol.

It also was a reminder. Look, Donald Trump won the election. He's going to be inaugurated on the 20th, and there is still half of this country that did not want him to be elected. And he chose, on this day, four years ago, to show a picture, the pretext to January 6, of him convening people.

There was an opportunity, yet again, for him to be a leader today and say, let's -- that was a bad day in our history, and take some ownership, but there's not. And so, I think it is responsibility of all of us sitting here at the table, not to forget, not to let our children forget, not so that we can remain a divided country, but so that we can try and work to something like that to never happen again.

COOPER: Scott?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. I think it will be remembered, but I don't think it's going to be remembered singularly. I think it's going to be remembered in the context of the last eight years, four years of Trump, four years of Biden. I mean, the fact is, it happened. It was a terrible day, violence, political violence should never be condoned. And then we lived through four years of Biden's presidency, and the American people went scrambling back to Donald Trump. They chose to analyze two presidencies, which included one day and a whole bunch of other policy decisions, and they went back to Trump.

The other thing about this day and about this election that I think is noteworthy and actually positive is this. It's not been since 1988 that Democrats have not challenged a Republican win on the floor of the House when trying to count the votes.

I've never had an election in my adult professional career in which both sides basically accepted it without too much grumbling. Obviously, 104 Democrats didn't accept Bush. There were Republicans who didn't accept Obama. We know Democrats still think Russia stole the election in '16. We know what happened in 2020.

This time around, it seems to me that most people have basically accepted the results of the election. Also, the electoral reform count act passed in 2022, clarifying that the vice president as only has ministerial duty. So that's going to go off without a hitch today. It feels like maybe we've gotten off the slippery slope of one side or the other, not accepting the outcome of an election. So, in its totality, over the last quarter century, I tend to think that's a good thing.

(CROSSTALK)

KINZINGER: Well, I was just going to say, you know, look, I get it, and I agree that in the long run, I think the days of, you know, January 6 riots are probably going to be over. We did a great thing with the electoral count act reform, but we have to be very careful. We can't put Democrats, and I was against them doing it when they did it, obviously, against Democrats opposing the election. We can't put that on the same level what happened on January 6.

[12:25:00]

It's one thing for a few people to say, we're going to vote against certification of this election. Once it would have hit critical mass in the Democrats, I'm pretty sure if it would have hit critical mass, the leadership would have come out and said, no, we can't do this.

Instead, Republican leadership like Kevin McCarthy shocked us all on January 1, on a phone call, when he said he as well, is going to object to the certification of this election. And when he did that, that's when I predicted that day, there'll be violence on the sixth because you're convincing half of the country an election was stolen.

And by the way, Scott, if I believed an election was stolen, I would have been on the steps of the Capitol that day because we're a country that believes we should have a voice heard, and that's the danger of terrible leadership and convincing people of life.

COOPER: Straight ahead, we're going to return to the spot where Capitol security was breached four years ago to find a very different scene. And will there be any unexpected objections as Congress certifies president-elect Trump's electoral win. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:00]