Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Event/Special

Congress Certifies Presidential Election. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 06, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:02]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And what is it like seeing President Trump being -- his election being certified exactly four years later?

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Well, Jake, thanks for having me.

About this time four years ago, as you said, there was a lot of noise outside the Capitol, but I don't think anybody was anticipating the riots that would occur about 90 minutes later.

When the Secret Service first evacuated, took him off the Senate floor to his ceremonial office, which is right off the Senate floor in the Capitol. And he stayed there for a while, and there were efforts by the Secret Service at that time to evacuate him. And he was clear to say, I'm not going to leave the Capitol.

But at some point, the lead Secret Service agent, Tim, came to us and said, look, that's a glass door, and we can't protect you here any longer. We need to move out of this location. And that's when they took this down to the loading dock underneath the Capitol.

And we remained there for the rest of the afternoon.

TAPPER: Were you aware at the time of the chance of hanging Mike Pence? Is that something that you knew about?

SHORT: No, no, honestly not.

I mean, we could hear a chants, but there was nothing that really was drawing our attention to the specific "Hang Mike Pence" until later we saw documentaries and coverage of it. I think, honestly, in those days, there was a lot of commotion, a lot that had to happen. And I think the vice president was quick once we'd been taken to the basement to call McCarthy, to call McConnell, call Pelosi, and Schumer and make sure we were all committed to getting back in that night and completing the business of the American people.

And then there were obviously calls he had to General Milley and to others about securing the Capitol, and, obviously, knew it was with Capitol Police. And so there wasn't a lot of time for reflection. There was a job to do, and that's what we were focused on.

TAPPER: Right now, you're looking at images from the floor of the House of Representatives. Members of the House and Senate are gathering in what is -- and there is the speaker, Mike Johnson, and Vice President Kamala Harris.

It's obviously a bipartisan or even nonpartisan event, where the leaders of this country come together to count the electoral votes. There's Ted Cruz, a senator from Texas, who was one of the many individuals who helped cause what happened four years ago by putting forward the falsehood that the vice president could somehow do something to stop the electoral count.

There's Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries with Katherine Clark, his number two.

What are your thoughts as you watch this in action, Kaitlan?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Ted Cruz obviously was the first senator to object. And, obviously, just looking back on this, what the vice president maintained at the time, as Marc knows well, is that he did not have the power to block the certification this day four years ago.

TAPPER: And he didn't.

COLLINS: What we have seen is the electoral count that was passed reaffirming that interpretation of the law, so people like John Eastman, who Pence later referred to as a crackpot of attorneys, that Trump was listening to at the time could not make that argument.

But also it changed the threshold for how many people have to object to lead to that moment. So, even if we were in the exact same situation as four years ago, had this law been passed, the threshold would have had to have been much higher than what it was four years ago for that to actually happen.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Marc Short, are you able to look at Ted Cruz without thinking about January 6?

SHORT: Sure, Jake, because, honestly, I think that what Ted Cruz is doing was advocating whether -- I may not agree that there was evidence of any sort of theft in that election, but it is their right to raise an objection. That's different than coming forward with the suggestion that the vice president has this unilateral authority to reject certificates and change the outcome of the election.

And so, even though they passed the new legislation in 2022, I think the vice president's role has been pretty much black and white clear for 250 years of our republic. So I don't think there was really that much question of what the vice president's role was on that day, and that's the same role vice presidents have executed since the beginning of our republic.

TAPPER: And can you imagine, by the way, just for people who aren't old enough to remember, in 2001 -- we showed the images of Al Gore. That was a very close election, came down to one state, 537 votes. George W. Bush won. I'm not suggesting anything other than George W. Bush won, but there were a lot of people that wondered about what had happened in Florida and the counting of the ballots and there was a recount and on and on and on.

If Vice President Gore had done what Republicans wanted Vice President Pence to do, it would have caused complete and utter chaos. It would have been a constitutional crisis, and he did not do it.

SHORT: I think one of the points that, honestly, Vice President Pence made was, those of you who are advocating that this extraordinary authority belongs to the vice president are not going to want that authority to be bestowed upon Kamala Harris four years from now.

And here we are. I mean, of course, it was -- it was always illogical to suggest that you can reject what the states have decided and empower one person to decide which electorates he's going to accept and reject.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But that's the politics versus principle that you're seeing in these images on the floor as well.

Adam Kinzinger is on our set in New York. He's not in Congress anymore because he's homeless in his own party. Liz Cheney is not in Congress anymore because she's homeless in her own party.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: There's the good old cancel culture.

KING: Yes, Mike Pence, a prominent conservative in the House of Representatives, then the governor of a Midwestern state, Indiana, the vice president of the United States, a proud -- you can disagree with his politics if you want, but a proud Christian, mainstream, Chamber of Commerce conservative, is home in Indiana today because he is homeless in his own party because of Donald Trump's takeover.

[13:05:15]

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: More than even being homeless, he's not the vice president to Donald Trump this time around.

TAPPER: Right.

GANGEL: Marc, just to go back to four years ago, Vice President Pence would not get in the car. And he's quoted in saying: "I'm not getting in the car. I trust you, Tim," that was the head of his Secret Service detail, "but you're not driving the car. If I get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off. I'm not getting in the car."

We have talked about this over the years and you have said that he didn't want the image of the detail going, but also...

TAPPER: There's the vice president-elect, by the way, J.D. Vance. Sorry. GANGEL: But in talking to Secret Service sources, I was told, look,

he didn't want to go back to the White House. That wouldn't have been a good place, and he was concerned that they wouldn't bring him back to the Capitol. Is that fair?

SHORT: I think that's fair, Jamie. I think that Tim was a great Secret Service lead, but, as you said, Mike looked at it and said, look, you're not driving the car. If I get in that car, you can take off.

And they had been clear to say, look, their job was to protect the principal, was to protect the vice president, and they had a pathway out, and they wanted to go.

But I think, as you said, the vice president felt like, look, that would be a terrible image for the world to see, is to see a 15-car motorcade fleeing the Capitol in this moment.

And so he was determined to stay there, and I think there was a lot to do about a commitment to get back in that night, because, initially, Capitol Police told us it would be days before we could reconvene, because they said, we can't come through and can confirm that there weren't devices left behind. And so it's going to take us days to clear out the Capitol.

And Pence was committed to saying, we're going to get back in tonight and finish the work of the American people.

COLLINS: Have you talked to Pence in the last few days? How's he reflecting on a day like today?

SHORT: I think he looks back on it, Kaitlan, and hopes that today is a day that we can look in, and history will begin to say, it actually was a triumph that our system worked, that there's so much that's focused on the...

COLLINS: But only because of people like him, and there are now people in his place that have said they will not do what he did.

SHORT: Well, I appreciate that, Kaitlan, but I think that, fortunately, there are a lot of checks and balances in our system, and I think that they carried the day that day, and I think that there are enough people who have stood on principle.

TAPPER: Let's listen in. Vice President Harris is calling for order.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Pursuant to the Constitution and laws of the United States, the Senate and House of Representatives are meeting in joint session to verify the certificates and count the votes of the electors of the several states for president and vice president of the United States.

After ascertainment has been had that the certificates are authentic and correct in form, the tellers will count and make a list of the votes cast by the electors of the several states. The tellers on the part of the two houses will take their places at the clerk's desk. ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: So, Vice President Harris has just

directed the tellers to take their places at the desk in front of the speaker's podium.

Check in with Dana Bash who is on Capitol Hill -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: You know, I just think it's so important to reflect on what we are seeing right now.

We talked at the beginning about this complex being fortified, but it's being fortified despite the fact that this is peaceful.

HARRIS: ... objection, the tellers will dispense with reading formal portions of the certificates. After ascertaining that the certificates are regular in form and authentic, the tellers will announce the votes cast by the electors for each state beginning with Alabama.

Senator Fischer.

SEN. DEB FISCHER (R-NE): Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Alabama seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received nine votes for president, and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received nine votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

REP. BRYAN STEIL (R-WI): Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Alaska seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received three votes for president and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received three votes for vice president.

[13:10:16]

(APPLAUSE)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Arizona seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received 11 votes for president and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received 11 votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

REP. JOE MORELLE (D-NY): Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Arkansas seems to be regular in form and authentic and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received six votes for president and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received six votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

FISCHER: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote..

COOPER: Business, what's happening right now, the tellers alternate reporting on the authenticity and the proper form of each of the certificates and the number of votes designated for president and vice president, and each teller records the results on a paper tally sheet.

And at the end of that, reading all results from all 50 states and D.C., the tellers then compare the results on their four tally sheets and all sign all four tally sheets. Then the vice president announces the result totals and announces the election president and vice president.

So they are going to be reading through each 50 state and the District of Columbia. So we will continue to monitor that and then continue with the proceedings.

Dana Bash, you were talking from your vantage point on Capitol Hill.

BASH: Yes, Anderson, I was just talking about this, the scene, which is, of course, part of the Constitution.

And it is, of course, something that we have seen, for the most part, at least in over 100, maybe 150 years, work without much disruption until four years ago. But the reality is how it feels up on Capitol Hill is that there is this tremendous security this year because of four years ago.

This place is fortified. And yet it is fortified despite the fact that a lot of the people who supported the insurrection that happened four years ago are now in charge, not just in Congress, in the Senate and the House, but, of course, coming back to the White House.

And they are in charge because the voters are putting them there. And I think that that is such a -- we have been talking about the contrast all morning and four years ago and what we're seeing now, but it's also a contrast in what people like Kamala Harris, who is standing there as we speak certifying her loss in the 2024 election, argued to the voters.

The voters heard her. The voters heard Joe Biden before her about how dangerous Donald Trump was to democracy, about what happened in this building four years ago, and they made a decision to put him back in the White House and to put Republicans back in sweeping control of Congress.

And I don't -- I think it's important not to lose sight of that dynamic as we speak.

COOPER: Scott Jennings.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think what Dana just said is so important. In light of all the rhetoric and things we're going to hear people say today, is that ultimately it was the American people that got to decide ultimately how we feel collectively as a country about January the 6th.

And already today, we have heard some people in other venues say extraordinarily unhinged and vile things, comparing January 6 to the Holocaust, to slavery, to World War II. I think we need to arrange our feelings and control ourselves accordingly here and not go off the deep end.

It was not a good day. Political violence cannot be condoned. But we can also be measured in how we view it in light of the rest of American and world history. What's happening today is ultimately a good thing because both parties for the first time in my adult life are accepting the results of an election.

[13:15:01]

And that is ultimately putting this country on the right track. So, I just think people ought to really take stock of our feelings and not get out over our skis too much today and minimizing other world events and comparing them to January the 6th.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Just a quick point. Both parties have always accepted the presidential election until one four years ago.

JENNINGS: False. They have not. They have not. They have not.

KINZINGER: No, Scott, members of some of the Democratic Party...

(CROSSTALK)

KINZINGER: Yes, I agree with that. But, say, in the party, I have never seen the speaker or the leader of the Democrats of the House of Representatives object to a presidential election.

There is a massive difference, and don't try to put these on the same thing. I agree they shouldn't have done it. But to say it's the same as what happened on January 6...

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: You admit they objected.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think, though, that I think that this is why we are where we are in this country is I think we're drawing false parallels to things that are happening in history.

Look, in 2000, that was the first election. I was in Ohio, the place, the ground zero people were questioning. It was the first election I ever got to vote in. I was greatly disappointed and I thought what happened in Florida with hanging chads was wrong. But I didn't storm the Capitol, because I was an adult that accepted the results of the election and the will of the people, whether I thought that some things had gone a little awry.

That's not what happened on January 6. And I don't think it's fair to draw the parallels that it was. I also think that showing this is really important. I used to be a former schoolteacher. And I think that we are in a moment right now in our country where information is being disseminated in ways where we do sometimes draw false parallels.

And so showing what actually happens, showing the checks and balances and explaining why January 6 is not the same as when other times in history people have asked questions about the election is really important for this upcoming generation that may have questions about the fragility of our democracy.

COOPER: Let's just listen in.

FISCHER: And J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received six votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

STEIL: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the Commonwealth of Kentucky seems to be regular in and authentic. It appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received eight votes for president and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received eight votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

KLOBUCHAR: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Louisiana seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received eight votes for president and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received eight votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

MORELLE: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Maine seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Kamala D. Harris of the state of California received three votes for president, and Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received one vote for president, and Tim Walz of the state of Minnesota received three votes for vice president, and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received one vote for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

FISCHER: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Maryland seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Kamala D. Harris of the state of California received 10 votes for president, and Tim Walz of the state of Minnesota received 10 votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

STEIL: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Kamala D. Harris of the state of California received 11 votes for president, and Tim Walz of the state of Minnesota received 11 votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

KLOBUCHAR: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Michigan seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received 15 votes for president, and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received 15 votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

KLOBUCHAR: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Minnesota seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom the Kamala D. Harris of the state of California received 10 votes for president and Tim Walz of the state of Minnesota received 10 votes for vice president.

[13:20:18]

(APPLAUSE)

FISCHER: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Mississippi seems to be regular in and authentic, and it appears therefrom the Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received six votes for president and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received six votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

STEIL: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Missouri seems to be regular in and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received 10 votes for president and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received 10 votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

KLOBUCHAR: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Montana seems to be regular in and authentic and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received four votes for president and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received four votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

FISCHER: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Nebraska seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received four votes for president, and Kamala D. Harris of the state of California received one vote for president, and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received four votes for vice president, and Tim Walz of the state of Minnesota received one vote for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

FISCHER: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Nevada seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received six votes for president, and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received six votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

STEIL: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of New Hampshire seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Kamala D. Harris of the state of California received four votes for president and Tim Walz of the state of Minnesota received four votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

KLOBUCHAR: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of New Jersey seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Kamala D. Harris of the state of California received 14 votes for president, and Tim Walz of the state of Minnesota received 14 votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

MORELLE: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of New Mexico seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Kamala D. Harris of the state of California received five votes for president and Tim Walz of the state of Minnesota received five votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

MORELLE: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of New York seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Kamala D. Harris of the state of California received 28 votes for president and Tim Walz of the state of Minnesota received 28 votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

STEIL: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of North Carolina seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received 16 votes for president and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received 16 votes for vice president.

[13:25:00]

(APPLAUSE)

KLOBUCHAR: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of North Dakota seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received three votes for president and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received three votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)

MORELLE: Madam President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Ohio seems to be regular in form and authentic. And it appears therefrom that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received 17 votes for president and J.D. Vance of the state of Ohio received 17 votes for vice president.

(CHEERING)

FISCHER: Madam President...

COOPER: Results from Ohio there, obviously a state for J.D. Vance.

Back with the team here in New York, and we continue to watch what is going on to the county of the ballot for each of the states.

Congressman, you were there four years ago. Is it odd watching this?

KINZINGER: It is.

Well, the funny thing is, we were kind of talking offline here. I go -- I was present for '12, '16, and then '20, obviously, that thing. And, usually, like, this is a nonevent. I mean, I would go, kind of show up. They'd open the session. Half the time, I'd go back to my office because you don't even need to be on the floor.

And this is over in an hour. And that's how it should be. This is great that it's happening this way. But, for me, it's surreal because, like, my attention what January 6 is obviously has been colored by what January 6 was four years ago, that I forgot how quick this actually happens and how really perfunctory it actually is.

So this is a good thing today. Again, the new incoming president will make the decision whether he wants to move on from January 6 or not. I'm fine whatever he decides. I think the country would be better off if he did. But, yes, it's good to see this happen today.

COOPER: Do you think January 6, I mean, years from now, is a date that will live in infamy, to use the phrase used for other events? I'm not comparing it at all to the...

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think we live in split-screen America. I think, for some of the country, it will and it'll be remembered. I think, otherwise, it'll fall to the history books.

And the reality is this. Most of the country did care. It rubbed them the wrong way. They didn't like it. That showed up consistently in polling. But it just didn't rank in the top issues at the end of the day. And I think this was such a historic and wild election cycle. And so many other dynamics entered the last four years that, in many ways, the events of January 6 were eclipsed.

And there's a certain privilege involved. I acknowledge it with myself in being able to say, well, I'm a voter against January 6. I'm voting this way because that day crossed the boundaries for me. But if you feel like the cost of living is too high, the border hasn't been secure, groceries cost too much, and you think that a different candidate, you think Donald Trump's better on that, then that's who you're going to vote for.

And we saw that. I mean, we were covered the Republican National Committee. That was the direction this was all going. Then Joe Biden gets out of the race and opens up a complete new dynamic. But it will honestly end up being for many people a footnote in the history book. ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: And, to your point, I mean, when you talk to

voters, they do not like January 6. They don't like Trump's role in it. I don't think that the fact that actually Trump was reelected and that Republicans were -- held onto power in the House and gained power in the Senate, I don't think that diminishes what happened and how terrible that day was at all.

But this country also has a long history of, frankly, anti-incumbency, being driven by economic forces. And that's exactly what this last election was. Americans voted for the other party to be in power because of their dissatisfaction with the status quo of their daily lives.

That was a trend that happened here in the United States. It actually happened all over the world in this past year. And we don't -- I don't think we should take that and say, well, they didn't care about January 6. Ask them. They did. The question is the policy direction for the next four years. Did they want it to be the Democratic Party or the Republican Party?

I think they spoke pretty loudly that they wanted it to be the Republican Party in this last election.

JENNINGS: I think Abby is exactly right. It's possible for voters to take in lots of different information, whether it's about what they saw on January 6 or then what they lived through for the next four years and then synthesize all of that and make decisions.

Ultimately, the Democrats in this election put all their eggs or most of their eggs in the January 6 basket and Republicans put all their eggs into the future, that we can control the economy and get things back in order in your life.

COOPER: I just want to point out that president-elect Trump just went over the 270 votes needed to win.

Let's listen.

FISHER: ... received six votes for vice president.

(APPLAUSE)