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CNN Live Event/Special

Presidential Aircraft Arrives At Joint Base Andrews; Arrival Ceremony For President Jimmy Carter; Today, Carter To Be Honored At The U.S. Capitol; Presidential Hearse Departs For Navy Memorial; Sir Richard Branson, Founding Member, The Elders, Discusses President Carter's Legacy. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired January 07, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

KATE ANDERSON BROWER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR & AUTHOR: And I got to meet them and witness some of their interaction, and it was just a normal kind of authentic, true love for each other.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: And, Tim, obviously, and your kind of looking at this as a historian, a presidential historian, the casket is about to be removed from this Special Mission, of course, 39, Jimmy Carter's remains being received by his family as we're watching this somber moment.

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, what we're going to see is precision. And that is a reminder of the fact that the United States military is responsible for the -- with the family, the planning and the implementation of the funeral.

The military district of Washington, one of our 19 -- one of the 19 military commands of the United States Army, is responsible for everything that you're watching, from this moment until Carter is laid to rest in Plains.

So if you sense military precision, that's because they're doing their job. And this is their goodbye to a commander-in-chief.

So this reminds us all of the multiple responsibilities of the president. They are not just a political leader. They're not just the head of civil government. They're the commander-in-chief.

This is the commander-in-chief part of the goodbye.

BURNETT: That goes from president to president.

NAFTALI: Yes.

BURNETT: And, you know, as, of course, he's going to be -- his casket will be taken down the streets of Washington, Kai.

We were talking about the other time that he would have done that. Of course, his own inauguration. And he did something at that time -- you and I were both there, actually. I was a babe in arms. I was a bicentennial baby. KAI BIRD, AUTHOR: I was a little older.

BURNETT: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BURNETT: But -- but you were a young man. You -- you speak about Jimmy Carter doing something in that day of getting out and walking, which we've seen Trump do. We'll see if he does that again. And Obama did.

But that was something that Jimmy Carter was the one who really essentially started.

BIRD: Yes, I was 25 or so. And suddenly, his limousine stopped and he popped out and everyone was shocked. I was -- I had managed to find a little perch on a fountain overlooking Pennsylvania Avenue. So I witnessed his walk down with Rosalynn and -- and Amy, his young daughter.

And it was it was a scene. It was an extraordinary -- but it was also classic Jimmy Carter. He was trying to send a message symbolically, of the common man of simplicity and democracy.

And that's -- you know, that's who he was. He -- he was -- he wanted -- he wanted to get away from the notion of the imperial presidency that we had seen with Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson and Ike.

BURNETT: You know, Audie, though, you talk about being an outlier and an outsider, which he truly was, and never wanted to be anything else.

Of course, you look at now, at this moment that we're in, the juxtaposition, it's hard to ignore it of Trump, who has also positioned himself to be that. But it couldn't be more different of a human being.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. And I mean, Kai can speak to this as well. He was shaped so much by the moments that the country, the paroxysms that the U.S. had gone through prior to that point.

Stepping outside of that limousine isn't just about him. It's about Kennedy, right, and an assassination attempt and the trauma of that nation.

There are so many things that Carter did in his approach that we're in direct response to the struggles that the nation was having.

And you mentioned that inaugural speech, and I really like this line, "We've learned that more is not necessarily better, that even our great nation has it's -- has recognized it's limits, for better or worse."

Because we know Americans do not like to be told about their limits. And he really suffered for that. This is the kind of way he approached the job. And even today, I think, in planning the funeral, it's not just about

what he didn't want. It was about not self-indulgence. I think he had, especially as a born again Christian, that sense of humility is built into your internal system.

And so it's not that you don't want to be honored. It's that this idea that it shouldn't be overdoing it. So, you know, not treating yourself like a king, especially if you are someone who has a faith in in Jesus Christ as your king, right? You have a sort of separate idea of these things.

And I'm going to be fascinated, honestly, by every hymn choice today because I think he's, as usual, going to be sending more messages to us.

BURNETT: Which, of course, and we said planning back to 1986.

Wolf Blitzer, you, of course, covered him and know, you know, all of this so intimately.

A man who would say, put on a sweater instead of turn up the thermostat and echoes of all of our own parents, probably, in time.

But, you know, Wolf, for you sitting watching this, you remember being there outside the White House and covering President Carter.

[14:35:05]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: I certainly do. And I remember, just a few years ago, going down to Plains, Georgia, and being with him. He was already in hospice care, but he was still very alert, still very much involved.

And I know that if he we're watching this right now, he'd probably say, you know, we don't need all these fancy things going on right now. I'm just a simple kind of guy. But he's the former president.

Jamie Gangel is with me. Kaitlan Collins is with me.

Kaitlan, I know that Jimmy Carter himself was deeply involved in preparing for all of this.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, he was. And, Wolf, you know, it's so striking. We've talked about his faith and obviously his time in the in the presidency. But, you know, he's landing at Joint Base Andrews here before he's about to lie in state here at the capital.

Jimmy Carter, you know, was one of the few presidents who served in the military. He was the only Annapolis grad, and he actually wanted a career in the Navy. That's what he was initially seeking. He and Rosalynn moved to Annapolis. She was very happy with life there.

I became a bit of a Jimmy Carter obsessive in recent years. And in reading about their time in Annapolis and what it meant for him, and he wanted to be an engineering officer on a submarine. That was his big dream. And then his father died unexpectedly, and he had to go back home to

Plains. And upon returning for the funeral, obviously, realized he could no longer stay in Annapolis, that he had to come back home and tend to family matters.

And he brought Rosalynn back with him. But as you famously read in his book, it was -- a book about him, it was a decision that Jimmy Carter made alone. And she was so upset about it because Rosalynn Carter really enjoyed living in Annapolis. She didn't speak to him for the whole drive back to Plains, Georgia, actually.

(LAUGHTER)

COLLINS: And, you know, it's such a telling moment because of what he was -- he was initially hoping his life to be like.

But it was that return to Plains that got him into politics, and that is what ultimately propelled him to run for governor of Georgia and then ultimately for the president of the United States.

And it just obviously has shaped so much of American history that still has ramifications for the presidencies that we cover today. And I thought that was such a fascinating part of his story of looking into that and seeing the life that Jimmy Carter envisioned for himself.

And ultimately, what President Carter went on -- went on to be, and obviously how he also viewed the military when he was in office and service members.

And so to see this as he's now returning to Washington, a place that he did not really enjoy that much and was never a man of Washington.

He didn't enjoy the backroom deal making, the -- the comfy relationships, the horse trading that accompanies so much of Washington relationships, as you know, Wolf, from covering the White House.

He didn't love that. He was part of it. He said later that it not having that political capital actually might have cost him. But that was not really the way he operated.

BLITZER: And we're looking at these live pictures from Joint Base Andrews.

You know, Jamie, when he was president of the United States, it wasn't called Joint Base Andrews. It was called Andrews Air Force base because Air Force personnel were based there.

But over the years, personnel from the Army and the Navy and the Marine Corps have been based at Joint Base Andrews. That's why it's now called Joint Base Andrews.

And on that point, as a graduate of the Naval Academy -- and now we're beginning to see the casket emerging right there. This is a very somber moment indeed. And that casket will come down here at Joint Base Andrews.

And where we are up on Capitol Hill, it will eventually be brought and will lie in state, and people will be able to come in and pay their respects.

Let's listen in to -- to this right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MILITARY OFFICER: (INAUDIBLE) Present arms.

(MUSIC)

(21-GUN SALUTE)

[14:40:00]

(21-GUN SALUTE)

(MUSIC)

BLITZER: You just heard the 21-gun salute, the traditional 21-gun salute.

Now, the U.S. Air Force band will play "Abide with Me" in honor of the 39th president of the United States.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MILITARY OFFICER: Forward march.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MILITARY OFFICER: (INAUDIBLE)

BLITZER: The motorcade shortly will be leaving Joint Base Andrews, heading over to the U.S. Navy Memorial, not far from where we are. We're here at the U.S. Capitol, where eventually it will wind up and people will be able to come and pay their respects as the body lie in state.

Jamie, we're watching all of this unfold. And I know you've, over the years, had a chance to speak with several Secret Service agents who worked closely protecting the 39th president of the United States.

And many of them are now coming back to honor him right now, because a lot of them became good friends.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. So we're seeing the military here at this part. But you can't forget that Jimmy Carter was a protectee for 48 years.

And some of the Secret Service agents have told me stories that have never been shared publicly before. Obviously, their first job is to protect the president, the former president.

But over the years, these personal relationships do grow, so much so that one agent who had been with him for many years then retired, actually as part of a special program, was allowed to come back and serve him because he wanted to be with President Carter in the final years.

And then another story that -- I don't want to get anyone in trouble here. But personal relationships do really grow.

[14:45:03]

And in his final years, President Carter, when he wasn't feeling well, he wouldn't always like to eat. And it turned out that one of the things he loved was blueberry pancakes.

And one of his Secret Service agents, who I promised to protect his identity, would actually sometimes at two in the morning, make him blueberry pancakes.

And we're going to see them. We saw some of the former agents and -- and present detail as honorary pallbearers down in Georgia. We're going to see them throughout these days.

And they will be with him, his detail will be with him till the very end when he's laid to rest.

BLITZER: And people don't necessarily realize that a president of the United States gets Secret Service protection even after leaving office --

GANGEL: Right.

BLITZER: -- for the rest of his or her life down the road.

GANGEL: Correct. Correct.

And so I --

BLITZER: The family, by the way, getting into the motorcade right now, and they'll be beginning the journey to Washington. Joint Base Andrews is right outside of Washington, in suburban Maryland.

But it's a short drive, not too far, maybe 20 minutes or so. That motorcade will arrive here at the U.S. Capitol, but it will make a stop at the U.S. Navy Memorial first.

COLLINS: And I was just thinking, is, you know, he's coming here back to Washington, a place that he obviously only spent four years as president before returning home, where so much of his legacy was also created, and where that Secret Service protection went on to follow him.

I think "The Washington Post," when they profiled the Carters recently, famously noted that the Secret Service vehicles outside their home actually cost more than their home in Plains, Georgia, that they lived in.

But -- but thinking about how he reshaped parts of -- of the presidency and the White House that are still in effect today, including the vice presidency.

I mean, he fundamentally altered the role of the vice president in simple ways at times. But also other major ones, by -- by putting an office inside the West Wing for the vice president. They weren't in the West Wing before.

And also including them in major conversations about issues like nuclear arms control. He couldn't believe that vice presidents before had been left out of the loop for issues like that. And he put them inside the West Wing to keep them -- you know, affecting the chain of command.

He had all of these -- these changes that he made when he came into the office that are still going to be something that will affect Senator J.D. Vance when he becomes vice president 13 days from now.

And so he may have been president for only one term, but he had these long-standing changes that you still see in the presidency today.

GANGEL: Just quickly, Wolf, you know, we've talked about that. This is a lot of pomp and circumstance. He is having a -- you know, a formal presidential, you know, week-long celebration of his life.

And he was -- as we've noted, he didn't like a lot of those things. He didn't want "Hail to the Chief." He did not famously have a White House photographer, a chief White House photographer.

But I'm told that over years as he made decisions about preparations for this funeral, he understood that it was about the office as well as the man. And --

BLITZER: Looks like that motorcade is beginning.

And, Jake -- Jake Tapper's with us, of course, as well. Jake's in the studio where it's very warm.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Not so warm -- warm out here up on Capitol Hill, Jake.

But the Carter family is there and all the kids. The grandchildren, the nieces and nephews there. They've all gathered to pay their respect and to honor the 39th president of the United States.

It'll be a very, very moving, emotional ceremony. I'm sure in the eulogies that we'll be hearing will be very powerful as well, Jake?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Indeed, Wolf. And we are looking forward to hearing those when the funeral, the memorial service takes place on Thursday.

John King, Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump could not be more different personally. And we don't have to delineate all the reasons. They're pretty obvious.

But they both are the outsiders to -- to a degree that -- that I don't think you can consider any other president, even Barack Obama, who had an outsider status but quickly became an insider enthusiastically, one might even observe.

Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump both sent to Washington to shake things up.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Outsiders who came to Washington after election seasons in which Washington said they didn't belong and they couldn't win, and that they were almost fools to run and try.

In Donald Trump's case, he took over the Republican Party. It was a hostile takeover of the Republican party.

In Jimmy Carter's case, he was a southern governor. He was a Democrat. He was a member of the party, but he was not a member of its Washington establishment or it's big political and money establishment.

Both of them came to Washington because the American people we're disgusted with what was happening in this town, and decided they wanted something very different.

[14:50:03]

Now - now they are very different men, in terms of personal character, in terms of how they conduct themselves. But, yes, they are a reminder that this town is often wrong about what's happening out in the real America, and that be -- you can shock the system sometimes and come to this town.

Generationally, incredibly different. You know, we watched Donald Trump, the president-elect, on television today calling on some members of the mainstream media but also calling several times on members of his MAGA media.

Jimmy Carter was actually the first president of the cable age, but only for six months. CNN started in June of 1980, and it was just CNN in those days.

And Stuart and Anita may know better than me what the president thought of the changes in the technology and the changes in the media business and how all these things happen.

But our politics are very different in the cable age, now the digital age, now the streaming age than they we're in the, you know, late '70s and early '80s.

And that there are some -- there are some benefits of that. And I think we all see every day there are some huge, huge, huge detriments. I would argue, curses.

STUART EIZENSTAT, FORMER CHIEF WHITE HOUSE DOMESTIC POLICY ADVISER, CARTER ADMINISTRATION: But there's one other big difference, if I may mention, and that is Trump truly transformed the Republican party. He changed it from being an internationalist, strong defense, small government, free trade party into a protectionist, nationalist, isolationist party.

Jimmy Carter, on the other hand, was unable to change his party. He was, in a sense, the first new Democrat. He paved the way for Obama and Clinton being moderate on fiscal policy, human rights, internationalist.

But the party split. Ted Kennedy ran against him and split the party. He was never able to get the liberal interest group wing of the party together, whereas Trump has been able to unite the party behind him.

TAPPER: Interesting. Interesting insight.

Let's bring in Sir Richard Branson. He was a founding member with President Carter of a group called The Elders. That's a group of independent global leaders who work together for peace, justice and human rights.

Sir Branson, thanks for joining us.

So you've said that President Carter was one of the guiding lights of your life. Tell us more about that. How did he impact you?

SIR RICHARD BRANSON, FOUNDING MEMBER, THE ELDERS: Well, he's impacted many people. But about 20 years ago, I was fortunate enough to be sitting with Nelson Mandela and Archbishop Tutu, and they decided they wanted to set up a group of 12 global elders, six women, six men, who had high moral authority.

And -- and as they were going through the list, Nelson Mandela's face lit up with a massive smile when he saw Jimmy Carter's name.

And he said, basically that, you know, this man stands for human rights. And no matter how unpopular some of his stances are, he's always -- always stood for human rights. And that -- that Jimmy had to be one of the very first -- first to those Elders.

And -- and, since then, Jimmy and I - sorry -- Jimmy Carter agreed to become one of The Elders, and he's diligently served until he was 90 when -- when, you know, he finally, finally retired.

And said that, you know, those 20 years were -- with The Elders were some of the most important of his life.

And in that time, he went to places that most people don't go to, to South Sudan, to Darfur, to Palestine, to North Korea, to -- you know, he traveled -- he traveled extensively around the world. And, you know, at a time when he was -- he was no longer a young man.

And he was out on the streets in -- in Darfur and South Sudan and making speeches, marching, marching for peace. And he was relentless and just -- just the most extraordinary, extraordinary individual.

TAPPER: When you first pitched the idea of The Elders to President Carter, I'm told he said, quote, "I appreciate your intentions, but I just don't see how this is going to work." But then he talked to Archbishop Tutu and came back to you with a

draft of the core principles and values of The Elders. Take us back to that moment. And how did that -- how did that become how did that define your relationship with him from then on?

BRANSON: So Peter Gabriel, the artist, and myself, had Archbishop Tutu and President Carter and others to Necker Island.

And we were discussing whether or not the world needed a group of people who we're no longer involved in party politics, but who could speak out on global issues, climate change, could -- could try to work behind the scenes on trying to resolve conflicts.

[14:55:06]

And initially, Jimmy Carter was skeptical. You know, he knew that Nelson Mandela very much wanted him to be part of The Elders alongside Kofi Annan and Mary Robinson and others.

But you know, he decided that he could change the approach slightly, and he and Archbishop Tutu sat under a palm tree. They -- they drafted a wonderful statement, sort of setting out what The Elders mission should be.

And, and he then worked diligently for 20 years and making -- making it become a reality and trying to make sure that The Elders really work behind the scenes and made a very, very big difference in the world, which -- which they did.

And amusingly, Archbishop Tutu was president and, you know, was chairman of The Elders for a while. And he -- he liked to get up a little bit later and say his prayers.

And President Carter always wanted to be -- start the meetings at 7:00 in the morning. And they had friendly banter about -- about that. I think on that one, there was a compromise, and I think we started the meetings at 8:00 in the morning.

TAPPER: We're going to hear so much about President Carter as a peacemaker, as a as a hero, as an icon. I wonder if you would just indulge us for a second on what he was like to -- to have as a friend, somebody you knew personally.

What's a memory you have of him that that you'll -- that you think about when you think of him? One that -- one that really tells you not just what he meant to the world, but what he meant to you as a person.

BRANSON: So I think there's -- there's always enormous amounts of praise given to people who die for -- you know, the month after they die. And -- and with President -- you know, and often it's not necessarily justified.

And I think that all -- all the -- all the time I spent with President Carter -- and you know, he -- he would always listen and care to -- you know, in Egypt, he would he would, he would listen to people, you know, from the students.

And he would ask them questions rather than just imposing his ideas on the students.

And, I mean, there was one -- one student who turned, you know, why do we - why -- why do politicians feel we need borders? You know, this is one, one world.

And -- and, you know -- and I think his response was that he actually agreed -- agreed with him, that, you know, that this is one wonderful world that should be shared by -- shared by all. But he was a wonderful, wonderful listener.

And I think the -- you know, that that was, you know, one of the great -- you know, great -- you know, the great talents of President Carter. And I think if you're going to be an elder, you must be a great listener.

TAPPER: Amazing. Thank you so much, Sir Richard Branson. Really appreciate you joining us. And condolences on the loss of your friend.

BRANSON: Thank you.

TAPPER: One of the things that's so interesting, Stuart, I would like to go to you first is, is people are going to discuss Jimmy Carter as a president. And well do that today, tomorrow, the next day.

But I think there's really no doubt that in the modern era, at least, or in the last century, he's the best ex-president we've ever had.

I can't think of a president, a former president, who has done more to live selflessly and remain trying to make an impact and eschew the billions of dollars that await any former president at the other end of it.

EIZENSTAT: He made a decision that was very fundamental, and that is not to serve on any corporate boards, not to take any speaking fees, to make his money from his books.

The second was to start the Carter Center. And this was really fundamental to getting him out of a difficult situation when he lost. He was a young man. What does he do for the rest of his life?

And so he decided to take many of the things, human rights, democracy, prevention, the environment, and bring them into the Carter Center and then become a protagonist for that.

So he monitored 100 elections. He got Noriega in Nicaragua to accept that he was defeated. He went on peacekeeping missions. President Clinton sent him into Haiti in 1994 with Sam Nunn and Colin Powell to convince the military dictator to leave.

He cured two African diseases --

TAPPER: Guinea worm.

EIZENSTAT: -- guinea worm, and which is a terrible disease, and River Blindness. And he was a constant promoter of human rights.

[14:59:57]

So he really carried those issues that he hadn't been able to fully finish with a second term into a unique center.

Now, other presidents, President George W. Bush, Bill Clinton have tried to go --