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CNN Live Event/Special

The State Funeral Of President Jimmy Carter. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired January 07, 2025 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: And people don't necessarily remember or weren't around during those 442 days of the hostage crisis. Every night, Ted Koppel on "Nightline" would have day 30, day 40. But let's listen in right now. This is a moving moment.

(STATE FUNERAL CEREMONY)

[16:30:52]

BLITZER: Jamie, as we're waiting for them to remove the casket and begin the process going up those Capitol rotunda stairs, finish your thought on what you wanted to say about the hostages.

We're going through another hostage crisis right now as well. But this was way back when American diplomats and others were taken hostage by Iranians in Tehran and held hostage for 442 days.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really did overwhelm his that part of his presidency. At the end and was part of the reason, probably, that he lost to Ronald Reagan.

I think what we're seeing here right now is that they're preparing the casket to be carried up the steps of the Capitol, Wolf, if we just, want to watch the moment.

BLITZER: So they'll be removing the casket momentarily and beginning the process of going up those Capitol rotunda stairs into the Capitol rotunda, where the body will lie in state and where this program will actually take place very, very soon. And I'm just looking at the rundown for the program.

You know, Kaitlan, very, very moving. Not just the military bands, but the eulogies and the actual service that will take place.

COLLINS: And you're also just seeing today the culmination of, you know, these places that were so formative to Jimmy Carter's life, from Plains, Georgia, to Annapolis, Maryland, to here in Washington, D.C.

And you know, his time at the United States Naval Academy, where -- where he was from 1943 to 1946. You know, this moment for him to leave Georgia and to leave the South. And he talked about later how that shaped, shaped him in life, leaving the family farm and having that that moment and that experience.

Same for Rosalynn, who obviously grew up right nearby him. His mom was actually the midwife when she was born, and he was just a baby at the time.

But then obviously his time here in Washington and just seeing, you know, those moments that shaped someone who left the office at a relatively young age. When we look at it, when we look at it now and went on to -- to have those decades of service and life afterward and to have so much of his family from Plains here.

GANGEL: You know, to talk about public service and Jimmy Carter, I was speaking to one of his former Secret Service agents, and they told me a story that was actually quite recent. They were at church with former President Carter, and he looked up at his Secret Service agent, someone who had been with him for a while. And he said to the agent, I hope I've done enough. This is at the very end of his life.

And the Secret Service agent said to him, you have, sir. But that was so important in everything he did.

BLITZER: And we see all the American flags, indeed all the flags, the state flags, other flags around the U.S. Capitol at half staff in honor of the 39th president of the United States.

Erin, go ahead. I know you're going to pick up our coverage.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Yes. And as were you know, obviously, the caisson and the procession moving to where you are, Wolf, we are going to be hearing in just a few moments, Audie, when this today's service begins, the chaplain of the U.S. Senate will speak. We're going to hear from Senator John Thune, majority leader of the U.S. Senate. We're going to hear from Speaker Mike Johnson.

They're going to talk about Jimmy Carter and this somber moment that is going to be very bipartisan, but also in the context of Trump, you know, who -- who obviously, he has said -- he's been talking about the Panama Canal. He has made his comments.

What do they say in this moment?

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that ideally, and we've talked about this, I think during the break is you have some moments that are above partisan politics. And I think this would really showcase that if that's what we see, because Carter had been a punch-line for so many Republican politicians for so long and continued to be, you know, as they talked about Joe Biden.

[16:35:10]

So expecting them to here, talking about him and really giving him the honor that is due as president, not just as what I would call global citizen.

BURNETT: I mean, it -- it is, Kate. Obviously, the context here is the harsh words that Jimmy Carter had in his final years for Trump, a no love lost there. Although in recent days, Trump has been gracious, of course, he is going to be attending the funeral, but you -- when you speak in these moments and you are John Thune or you are Mike Johnson, you also have that audience of one. KATE ANDERSEN BROWER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, I mean, they have to be, I

think, incredibly respectful in these remarks. And they -- I think it's we've been talking a bit about how President Carter issued, you know, a lot of the formalities and the pomp and circumstance. But I think he wanted people to be watching this. He wanted to get this respect that he felt he didn't always get as a one term president.

I know Rosalynn said it was the biggest regret of her life that he wasn't reelected. And so I think that these politicians that are speaking today should really go out of their way to -- to try to bring the country together in this moment, in this rare moment where there's so much division.

Mike Johnson, you know, I think should do a can easily. I mean, there's so many things to choose from to praise Jimmy Carter about that are not purely political.

BURNETT: And you talk about how he eschewed so much of the pomp and circumstance, and yet he wanted people to watch this, that he -- that, that, that he felt acutely that only being a one term president and how he was judged for that.

The actual formal ways in which we are seeing that in these moments here, that caisson, as we are watching and approach the Capitol, Tim, you have talked about when Carter planned this funeral and he did plan this funeral that LBJ was the last person to have had his hearse transferred by a caisson. It was not what was done. And then, subsequent to that, only Reagan. Ford chose not to. H.W. Bush chose not to.

Carter actually chose the pomp and circumstance here.

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Yes. And I think it's important to keep in mind that this is the first time in over 20 years that Washington and us, and those outside of Washington have seen this procession with a caisson. As you mentioned, both Gerald Ford and George H.W. Bush decided they did not want this pomp and circumstance.

And we can speculate as to why Carter -- President Carter did. But I think there are two reasons. One, as Kate mentioned, as Kai mentioned, I think that though he didn't like things like hail to the chief because it made him think of the imperial presidency, it made him think of Richard Nixon.

BURNETT: Nixon.

NAFTALI: This is something that -- this is a -- this particular ritual started with Abraham Lincoln. And then for -- for Jimmy Carter, searingly, searingly, it's associated with JFK.

And so I think for him, this is part of how a country remembers a fallen commander in chief. And number two, as we watched the procession, for those of us old enough to remember watching Jimmy Carter's inauguration, it in many ways evoked that inauguration.

Had he gone to the -- had he gone to the laying in state in a hearse, it would have been over in minutes. Instead, we watched a slow procession exactly as it was in 1977. Carter, in a sense, is returning to that moment of possibility, in the case of his presidency and in this case, evoking the best part of his presidency.

BURNETT: And we did hear -- also, you talk about the caisson. We did hear "Hail to the Chief". He also chose that for the naval memorial.

NAFTALI: I think Rosalynn and Kate may know this. I believe it's Rosalynn Carter -- Rosalynn Carter, who said to him, you've got to have that. You can't strip this office of all --

BROWER: So, so smart. I mean, she was a better politician than he was in many ways.

NAFTALI: And the -- and the other thing is he -- he used to carry his suitcases when he would come off of Air Force -- Air Force One. He stopped doing that. He recognized that many Americans still wanted their president to be larger than life. And that was stripping it too close to the bone.

So he was trying to find that balance. After Richard Nixon's imperial presidency and wasn't easy to do.

BURNETT: We are in these final moments, waiting, and obviously, they're running a few moments behind. But that casket will be brought in to lie in state in the Capitol, and the service will begin where we will hear from the vice president, the majority leader, the house speaker.

Kai, it -- obviously, if you had gone by hearse, this would have happened in just a few moments. Part of the choice of a caisson, and Carter would have, of course, been very aware of this was to give time, to have time to think, time to consider, time for people to watch this time to discuss.

[16:40:11]

KAI BIRD, AUTHOR, "OUTLIER: THE UNFINISHED PRESIDENCY OF JIMMY CARTER": Yes, absolutely. And I think he also, Jimmy had a respect for tradition. He disliked pomp. He disliked the imperial presidency.

But I think you're right, Tim. He -- you know, this caisson journey is reminiscent of Lincoln. And as a southern man, he is trying to -- he's very much aware of that history. He's very much aware that the South was defeated and occupied and that there are limits to America's power.

Also, it's -- I think its important to remember that it was Jimmy Carter who brought the resolute desk out of the warehouses from the Archives and put it in the Oval Office. The desk that that John F. Kennedy had used, and it is the desk that has been used by every president since.

So, there's a real evidence that he had a respect for tradition. And, so I'm not surprised by the caisson. ANDERSEN BROWER: There's a great quote from his inauguration where he

quotes his teacher from Plains, Julia Coleman, who he quoted quite often, and he said, you must accommodate changing times, but cling to unchanging principles. And those unchanging principles are honesty. You know, things that we don't see much in our politics today.

So I think this is a moment for us to be nostalgic about someone who could never win in today's America.

CORNISH: And there's so much of his Washington that is gone. We've spent a lot of time talking today about the ways he was rejected by Washington or was an outsider.

Well, guess what? There is no big, powerful newspaper person you need to impress anymore. There is no salon you need to go to, to solve it all.

You heard the president-elect this morning calling Mar-a-Lago the winter White House and going into its history with Carter selling the building because it had once been held by the U.S. government. So he has he outlasted a lot of those rivals. Tip O'Neill -- there can't be a House speaker like Tip O'Neill anymore. There isn't an Edward Kennedy level senator anymore.

So I think that things have changed so profoundly. And in the end, like his legacy does speak louder than some of those opponents did at that time. I think that's sort of the most generous way I can say it, you know, in this moment.

BURNETT: And, Tim, that we all do, and maybe, Kate, you're using the word nostalgic, but we all do cling, in a sense, to the pomp and circumstance. People -- people we want this. This is part of what defines a moment and defines a shared experience that we all have.

NAFTALI: Yes. And the framers, debated amongst themselves about sort of the powers of this person. And there were some that said, we don't want a king. But then they found that some in America wanted an elected king.

They wanted someone bigger and bolder than us. So we -- but we are contradictory as Americans. Sometimes we want a president. We can have beer with, and sometimes we want a president that we can that aloof and that we can look at and say he's the -- and someday -- she's the best of us.

BURNETT: Yeah.

NAFTALI: We're not sure of it.

One thing we know for sure is that we don't want our president to be a source of -- of embarrassment, because that the president is our bald eagle. And so, so there's this incredible balance must be struck. And Jimmy Carter was very interesting because he tried to strike the balance not always successfully. And then Ronald Reagan comes in and has a totally different model.

BURNETT: Oh, right, with the -- with the stardom and the -- and that charisma.

All right, Jake, let's send it to you as we await, of course, the hearse to be brought into the capital for the ceremony.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. And we'll keep an eye on that. And the moment it happens. We'll start talking about that. They are waiting right now for any number of logistical issues to come into place.

I do want to touch base just because it's so seldom that we have actual witnesses to history sitting at the panel to talk about things that others in our political world are discussing, I do want to talk about the Panama Canal. Here's the family of the -- of Jimmy Carter walking out right now.

They are -- this is maybe the. Is this the pallbearers, I believe, or just at least members of the family are walking in and this is the -- as we've discussed with Anita McBride earlier, this is the east side of the Capitol where President Carter wanted to be brought in.

Is there a significance to the fact that he wanted the east side? Because he talked about Reagan, wanted the west side because it faces California. Gerald Ford wanted to walk through the House chamber because he had been a minority leader of the House.

ANITA MCBRIDE, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO LAURA BUSH: There is some symbolism of where they're brought in. But also, let's remember to the west front, it's totally under construction now, or preparation --

TAPPER: OK.

MCBRIDE: -- for the inauguration. And that might be the real reason why he's coming up the east plaza rather than the west.

[16:45:05]

TAPPER: I do want to talk about Panama, but one other thing I want to talk about to our experts here from the -- from the Carter White House, is his friendship with the man he defeated.

And I mentioned earlier how -- well, it's been mentioned. Jimmy Carter, at the age of 100, outlived almost everybody. He outlived his vice president, whose son, Ted Mondale, is going to be reading the eulogy. And he outlived the man he defeated and became good friends with Gerald Ford, whose son, Steven, is going to read the eulogy for Gerald Ford.

STUART EIZENSTAT, AUTHOR, "PRESIDENT CARTER: THE WHITE HOUSE YEARS": So there's a beautiful story about this. They fought a very bitter presidential campaign. It was decided by a half of 1 percent. And they went to Golda Meir's funeral together on what would have been Air Force One. And for 12 hours sat next to each other, and they really bonded.

Now, interestingly, Ford told me that Nixon was on the other side of the aisle and for that whole 12 hours never said a word. But they bonded and they went to each other's libraries, and they committed themselves to give eulogies at each others funeral.

And then I got Jim Cannon, who was Ford's domestic advisor, and we created in 1988, a bipartisan commission that they both chair to give advice to whoever wanted in 1988, which was George H.W. Bush. We went once to Atlanta. We went to beaver creek. It was beautiful to see, Jake, the relationship they had.

TAPPER: Amazing. And we'll come back to that in a second.

We're expecting the 21-gun salute to start any second. Let's listen in.

(STATE FUNERAL CEREMONY)

TAPPER: Family of President Carter is coming out now. There's his son Chip is coming out with his -- with his brood. Other members, Jimmy Carter and Rosalynn Carter had four children. All of them are with us today, and all of them are at the Capitol.

And there are a total of 22 grandchildren and great grandchildren. Chip Carter, giving the eulogy at the memorial over the weekend. His son Jack, Jimmy Carter's son Jack is there.

Obviously, when you live to be 100, your sons and daughters may be in their 60s and 70s when they come to your funeral.

Jeff Carter is there. The president's adult son, Amy Carter, president's adult daughter, who famously went to public school when she came here as a child in grade school, when the Carters moved to Washington in 1977.

(STATE FUNERAL CEREMONY)

[16:56:50]

TAPPER: We are waiting for the casket containing former President Carter to enter the Capitol rotunda, where he will lie in state and be honored by well-wishers, both official and unofficial, from the public.

We have seen a couple members of -- surviving members of the Carter cabinet while we have been watching the proceedings. We saw the former treasury secretary, Michael Blumenthal, and the former health, education and welfare secretary. That was the name of the -- of the office at the time, Joseph Califano. That is where his casket will lie in state.

We've seen a number of these proceedings over the last 20 years. There is the former speaker. There are Supreme Court Justices Kavanaugh and Kagan, as well as the chief justice of the United States, John Roberts.

You see, the secretary of defense, Lloyd Austin, there behind them. And now members of the Carter family are walking into the rotunda to honor their father, grandfather and great grandfather. Stu Eizenstat, while you're here, what's going through your mind? As

somebody who worked for President Carter? I mean, you obviously knew this day would come sometime.

EIZENSTAT: I mean, what goes through their mind as he taught us how to live a life of purpose, a life of faith, and he taught us how to, I think to die at peace with himself.

But it also is important that we not only look at his post-presidency, but we recognize that he was, my mind, one of the most effective and successful presidents for one term to accomplish so much domestically and in foreign affairs, which have lasted, whether its the panama canal, the Middle East peace process, so much that he did really is still here.

The China normalization, the collapse of the Soviet Union was due in part to his soft power of using human rights, but also he was the one that reversed the post-Vietnam defense decline. And all the weapons systems which President Reagan had -- he stalled it.

So I think it's a legacy that needs to be looked at. It's time to redeem his presidency.

TAPPER: Jim Fallows, you as his chief speechwriter. Obviously, you knew this day would come. I don't know if you knew that he was going to live to be 100, but what's going through your mind as we see the bipartisan nature of the memorials to him? As we as we see this field of U.S. senators, Democrats and Republicans is something that has struck me since his death, an outpouring on social media of not just President Bush, et cetera, not just President Trump, but far right wing commentators talking about how Jimmy Carter, while they disagreed with him, was a man who lived a purposeful life, a man of deep faith, really striking.

JAMES FALLOWS, FORMER CHIEF SPEECH WRITER FOR PRESIDENT CARTER: I think I remember on the campaign trail, as do I must, his 52nd birthday, just before he first won the presidency. I thought, how can anybody be that old?