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CNN Live Event/Special

Former President Jimmy Carter To Be Honored At State Funeral. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 09, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Room as Donald Trump after this day.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So the reality is Jimmy Carter lived to be 100. You saw in the picture before, the vice presidents were laughing. They were catching up. One of the things we'll see today is just the dynamics between the president's club, between the vice president's club.

And I'm told the seating chart changed a couple of times. But last I heard, Vice President Pence is sitting right behind President Elect and former President Donald Trump. So, so those dynamics will be interesting.

The other thing that we're going to see are a lot of children and grandchildren of a former president. So in addition to the Clintons, Chelsea Clinton will be there, former President LBJ, Johnson's daughters will be there, President Truman's, there's Eisenhower. So it really is one of those rare times when everybody comes together.

We just go back to the age and outliving most of his people. So that the inner circle for Jimmy Carter was Jody Powell, his White House press secretary, Hamilton Jordan, his chief of staff, Pat Caddell, his pollster.

Jimmy Carter outlived all of them. But there will be, I'm told today, the following people from the Carter administration. Joseph Califano, 93 years old, who is Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare, Andrew Young, who is the former Ambassador to the U.N., '93. And Judge William Webster, who Jimmy Carter -- Judge Webster is about to turn 101. And I spoke to Judge Webster and his wife Linda this past week. They told me two interesting stories.

One, we should all keep in mind that Jimmy Carter, the Democrat, picked Judge Webster, the Republican, to be head of the FBI, knowing that Webster the Republican would go on for a 10 year service. It was a, you know, Jimmy Carter thought the man was right for the job. It wasn't about politics.

And Linda Webster also told me one of their favorite stories is that Jimmy Carter never interfered with what Judge Webster did. He always worked through the Attorney General. He believed the FBI should be separate. And except once. Once President Carter, they don't know why, called then-FBI Director Judge Webster to ask about something out West. And the FBI director said, if we can, we'll do it. And Jimmy Carter said, understood, you know, hands off.

Very different from today, where Christopher Wray is going to be resigning so that Donald Trump can appoint his own FBI director.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think about the century of Jimmy Carter and the century of American life. And it strikes me, I mean, even watching all the people gathered in that room, that you can only look at the presidency of Jimmy Carter as just one chapter.

And honestly, a relatively small chapter in this man's enormous life and the impact that he had on these institutions. Hearing Jamie talk about his respect for the independence of the FBI, seeing Hunter Biden on the screen and some of those folks that we've just been discussing.

You know, the independence of the FBI at that point was still a relatively new phenomenon. So it was so important for him to take those ideas and to hold fast to them so that they could become a part of the American system for decades after that. Now we're in another era. Perhaps all of that is being revisited.

But one of the things about Jimmy Carter's legacy throughout all of these things, whether it's how he governed, how he thought about American energy, how he thought about the future, how he thought about the importance of science and engineering and future proofing this country, he saw beyond his four-year term. And then he ended up living to see years that most American presidents never see. So it's an incredible thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One thing --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: We were just listening to -- in the National Cathedral, the song Wind Beneath My Wings, popularized by Bette Midler from 1982. We're told that the song reminded Jimmy Carter, reminded the former president of his wife, Rosalynn Carter. And as we've been discussing for several days now, when you are a former president, every three months you have to go over plans for your funeral.

[09:35:07]

There is a Vice President-elect J.D. Vance and his wife Usha and at least one of their children. But in any case, this is something that Vice President-elect Vance and President-elect Trump and others are going to have to do as well. This is just part of being an American president. You have to make plans for your funeral, as macabre (ph) as that might seem. George H.W. Bush once said that you get used to it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every three months.

TAPPER: Every three months.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was reviewing it. TAPPER: Yes. Every three months they come to you. And check out the

seating chart. There is one of our some of the Supreme Court justices. Let's go to John Berman up in the air.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much, Jake. You know, we're watching to the motorcade carrying the casket with Jimmy Carter traveling from the U.S. Capitol to the National Cathedral. Somewhat symbolic journey, right? Because the U.S. Capitol, the kind of place where maybe Jimmy Carter was never quite as comfortable, but the National Cathedral, that's a different story.

Kai Bird, you know, biographer for Jimmy Carter, faith not just central definitional to Jimmy Carter.

KAI BIRD, AUTHOR, "THE OUTLIER: THE UNFINISHED PRESIDENCY OF JIMMY CARTER": Yes, he was a Southern Baptist, a born again Southern Baptist who was he took his religiosity very seriously. And he was always an outlier, an outsider running against Washington. But central was his morals.

And I think in retrospect we have to understand that he obviously was one of the most decent men to have occupied the White House, but also the hardest working and probably the most intelligent president in the 20th century.

So well read and he took his faith so seriously that he would ignore the political consequences of many of his political decisions. He would try to just do the right thing.

BERMAN: Secret Service code name was Deacon. That gives you a sense of just how central faith was. And the motorcade pulling in right now to the National Cathedral on stage, were told Tricia Yearwood and Garth Brooks will be performing. They were close to the Carter family. I don't know if any of you have seen the CNN documentary Rock and Roll President, but music, such a central part of Jimmy Carter's life and presidency.

I don't think the Allman brothers would be there today, but they obviously were big in his campaign as well.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN HOST: Connect those two ideas when he made one of his, one of the speeches as candidates that drew him into national prominence. He cited Bob Dylan and Reinhold Naber as his two biggest influences. A Christian theologian who is one of the more influential on the progressive left, Martin Luther King, et cetera. We're going to hear elements of that ideology.

BERMAN: Let's go to Kaitlan Collins is at the cathedral where the motorcade is just arriving.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. John Berman, obviously you can see here President Carter's casket has just arrived at the National Cathedral. It is -- we're looking at it. It's right over my left shoulder from where we're sitting here. Obviously a solemn moment here. And the U.S. Coast Guard band is gathered outside as they prepare to

bring his casket inside where all of the former presidents have gathered as you saw them sitting amongst the pews, you know, and just the moments here of what you can't miss are how much this person, this life that we're about to hear eulogized has shaped Washington and shaped the presidency.

I was thinking about that just looking at Vice President-elect J.D. Vance sitting there with his wife, Usha. Carter changed what his job is going to look like in a few weeks from now in a fundamental way, from putting his office into the West Wing to bringing the vice president into critical briefings on things like arms control that he couldn't believe they were left out of before.

I mean, he was a one term president, but he had such a lasting legacy. And I think that is something that will pertain to so many of the figures that you see in there as they are prepared bearing to take his casket out of here to bring it inside, up those steps. And then his funeral here at the National Cathedral will begin. John.

BERMAN: Paul bearers, the honorary Paul Bammers (ph), all members of his family, grandchildren. He has so many. And were talking about the role of faith in Jimmy Carter's life and it was central to his marriage as well, his 77-year marriage to Rosalynn, who passed away two years ago. And they were both such major figures in their own church community in Georgia.

KATE ANDERSEN BROWER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, absolutely. I mean, talking to people down in Plains, they would do anything for the Carters. And you think about their life of adventure that they really lived together. Rosalynn liked to joke they had an involuntary retirement after they lost the election.

[09:40:02]

And then the fact that, you know, here they were married in 1946, right after World War II. They lived in Virginia, Hawaii, Connecticut. And then they go back to Plains, and he begins a political career. That she is a key partner to him. You know, she makes speeches around the country. She introduces Jimmy Carter, who was an unknown at the time. She helps introduce him to the country. And I don't believe that he could have done it without her.

BERMAN: And she said cabinet meetings. She was such a central figure in every aspect of his life, both in the faith community and in the political community as well.

We're joined now by renowned president photographer David Kennerly. He's photographed 11 presidents, including Jimmy Carter. It's an honor to speak with you, sir. I will note Jimmy Carter himself did not have an official White House photographer.

But the first time I Carter stepped into The White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, was during the transition, after he'd beaten Gerald Ford. He was there at Ford's invitation, and you were literally in that room snapping pictures. Talk to us about what that moment was like.

DAVID HUME KENNERLY, PRESIDENTIAL PHOTOGRAPHER: That was, as you say, the first time that Carter had been in the White House. I was astonished when I found that this is the moment where Ford reaches over and said, I haven't really congratulated you on becoming president. And Ford was incredibly gracious and offered Carter his private office right next to the Oval Office.

And that's how Gerald Ford was. I mean, he was very sad that he lost the election. I think the staff was even sadder. I know I was. But the two of them really hit it off. And Ford had an exemplary transition, unlike some other recent presidents or president.

BERMAN: Looking at live pictures right now from the National Cathedral where the living presidents are gathered. We haven't seen them yet inside, although we have seen all the living vice presidents waiting for the arrival of the cascading Jimmy Carter.

But you photographed yourself these ceremonies in the past, including the Funeral for George H.W. Bush, where Carter was. What was that like? What is that like for you when you see all these people in one place?

KENNERLY: Yes, this is the ford funeral in 2007, on January 2nd. And you have President Bush, his dad, senior, and then Clinton and Carter there, along with their wives and Nancy Reagan on the right, as you can see. But that's from my spot, right in front of all these people.

And I was there as the official Ford photographer, and I covered all of the funeral. That was a really hard one for me. I remember when the music started, I really started crying. And it was a hard thing. Anybody knew the President Ford and Susan Ford is there also today. Felt that way.

And just to be. And watch the casket and hear the singing and being in the National Cathedral where my son Byron was baptized. And it was all very emotional for me.

BERMAN: An emotional time and such a tight bond between those two former presidents, Ford and Carter. David Kennerly, as I said, in honor of to speak with you, and I'm here with Tim Naftali, you noted were talking before about the fact that Carter did not speak at the National Cathedral at the official Washington ceremony for Gerald Ford's passing. But maybe even more poignant, he spoke at the private ceremony back in Grand Rapids.

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: He spoke at the private ceremony, and it was a beautiful eulogy. Carter teared up at the end when he described Ford as a healer. He also talked about the love that developed between both couples. And this emerged from, as David just discussed, what was a bitter political fight.

But their relationship flowered on a plane on Air Force One, coming back from Anwar Sadat's funeral. He'd been assassinated largely for his efforts to bring peace to the Middle East. He'd been assassinated in 1981. And Ford and Carter realized they were with Nixon. But Nixon, as was his want, went off in his own direction, left them alone, and they realized they had hours together.

So they started talking and they started bonding over how difficult it was to raise money for their presidential libraries. And before the trip ended, they were -- they had been professional allies.

Carter had invited Ford into the White House during his presidency.

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He had relied on Ford to lobby for the Panama Canal treaties among Republican senators. But they became friends. And that friendship was clear from what Jimmy Carter said in 2007.

One more point. Just before Ford died, one of his last conversation with Jimmy Carter, he called Carter to ask him, would you give the eulogy at my funeral? Carter was surprised and said, only if you'll let me -- if you'll give you the eulogy at my funeral, if I go first.

And so what we're seeing today is closure. It's a promise that Ford made to Carter and Carter made to Ford. And Carter, of course, outlived Ford. So we're going to see that today.

BERMAN: Very, very moving examples of friendship and I think of grace as we watch the motorcade carrying Jimmy Carter arrive at the National Cathedral. Let's go back to Jake in Washington.

TAPPER: Thanks so much, John. Yes, we're watching this very moving moment. It only happens every few years, and it is macabre (ph) to think about the fact that we will be doing it again sometime in the not too distant future, hopefully not soon for one of the gentlemen sitting in the pews. We are reflecting on the life of Jimmy Carter, the life he led and his continued activism.

And John King, one of the reasons why I think there is such an outpouring of love and respect for Jimmy Carter from all political corners, left, right, center, and also the apolitical, is because he continued to try to -- there is some of the world leaders that you see, Justin Trudeau, perhaps most notable in that pew, not having a particularly good week. Prime Minister Trudeau.

But one of the things that's so notable, John King, is how much he continued to stay active, both in personal charitable works like Habitat for Humanity, building homes for people who need homes, but also continued diplomatic missions abroad.

KING: Consistent character, faith driven. Abby mentioned this earlier. You could make a very strong argument that the Carter post presidency in some ways was as important, if not more important, than the Carter presidency. Speaking his mind, not afraid to speak his mind.

One of the reasons he was always an outsider in the President's club is he thought those who came after him were not as willing to speak out for human rights, to speak up for civil rights, to make hard decisions and to stay with them.

So you see here at home, Habitat for Humanity, building homes for people who don't have them, building homes for people who don't have the means doing it quietly. Carter would go to these building sites, and it wasn't that. Where's the media? Why am I not on Television, it was, let's help people.

You see what's happening in Venezuela just today. If Jimmy Carter were president, I think we would have a louder voice from the White House about a man who stole an election. And so the dignity of the man, the character of the man, whether it was at his projects here at home and his projects around the world. And you hear each of these presidential historians, people like Anita and Tim talk about, he would pick up the phone as a post president. Can I help something? Can I help Nelson Mandela? Can I help a poor person in Georgia or anywhere else in the United States of America?

And he viewed those people as equals. I think that's the gift of Jimmy Carter. Nelson Mandela needed a hand, I'll give it to you. A poor person, didn't have a house, needs a hand, I'll give it to you. Just the character of the man, the humility of the man, the decency of the man. Again you trace arc of history, character traits that are sadly often lacking in this town these days.

TAPPER: Let's bring in a longtime friend of former President Carter, Jill Stuckey. Jill is superintendent of the Jimmy Carter National Historical Park in Plains, Georgia, has knew the Carters for 30 years.

Ms. Stuckey, thanks for joining us. You have had the privilege, the honor of having Saturday night dinners with Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter. I'm sure countless memories. What do you want the world to remember today about not just the 39th president of the United States, about not just perhaps the most consequential former president in the history of this country, but your friend, your friend Jimmy Carter? What do you want people to know?

JILL STUCKEY, FRIEND OF JIMMY AND ROSALYNN CARTER: So many emotions are going through me today and I just want people to do more research, love people to come to Jimmy Carter National Historical Park and learn about President Carter, Governor Carter, world Leader Carter and the Carter Center. Just -- they packed so many things into their 77 and a half years of marriage and President Carter's hundred year life.

[09:50:00]

I'm sure you had dozens of conversations with President Carter over the years about his thoughts on world events and world leaders in today's politics. Did he ever say anything to you about how he hoped his legacy would be remembered?

STUCKEY: You know, one time I asked him about that. Somebody was doing some fact checking and he just looked at me. He said, you know more about me than I do. Just handle it. You know, that didn't concern him. What concerned him was the president helping people just as much as he could. He really didn't waste any time thinking about after he was gone. He lived for the moment.

TAPPER: President Carter, of course, was known to have a fairly simple life at his home in Plains, Georgia. And, you know, we had some people on the panel a couple days ago who served in his White House with him, in his administration with him, and talked about how he kind of had to be convinced that it was important for Americans to hear Hale to the Chief played. Whenever he walked into a room, he was uncomfortable with it.

How comfortable do you think he would be with all the pomp and circumstance today? Did he come to make peace with it?

STUCKEY: I think so. But as you mentioned a little earlier, he didn't want to talk about the funeral. It, again, wasn't something he felt comfortable at all discussing. He'd rather discuss who he could help today. You know, a latrine he could dig in a poor country, eradicating, eliminating diseases. That's what he cared about.

TAPPER: We see President-elect Trump and First Lady Melania Trump at the National Cathedral right now. We have seen, I think this is the first president that we've seen come into the room. We are still waiting, of course, for Bush and Clinton and Obama as well. There is Donald Trump and Mike Pence, Al Gore, the former Vice president. Pence and Trump. It's the first time they've seen each other since January 2021.

A lot of tension between the two then and it didn't look particularly warm just now. One might observe. In any case, this is the first president of many that we're expecting. Of course, we expect President Biden to deliver eulogy.

President Biden, back when he was a senator, he and Jimmy Carter shared a political advisor, Pat Caddell and Pat Caddell. There's former President Obama walking in. First Lady Michelle Obama is not going to be with him today, but here he is joining the club, saying hello to Mike Pence's, saying hello the Mike Pence's wife Karen, saying hello to Al Gore. We did not see a greeting of or by President Trump. There he is saying hi to Marilyn Quayle. Well (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did shake.

TAPPER: He did shake. Okay. I couldn't see it from the angle. I was at Obama and Trump sitting next to each other, talking to each other there. But President Obama did say hello to Marilyn Quayle and former Vice President Dan Quayle.

GANGEL: Wow. That's such an image, though.

TAPPER: That is an image.

GANGEL: That's good.

TAPPER: I mean, you know, you don't see -- it's always striking whenever you see any of these people who were political opponents. Although Obama and Trump never ran against each other. Here's George W. Bush and First Lady Laura Bush. Interesting how Barack Obama stood up to let them through again, saying hello to the former vice presidents, Al Gore, Mike Pence, George W. Bush.

GANGEL: I may have missed it, Jake, but I do not think former President Bush or Laura Bush shook hands.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They walked right past the Trumps.

GANGEL: I would walk right back. I would find that very surprising if they didn't. Maybe we didn't see that.

TAPPER: We might not have seen it.

GANGEL: Yes.

TAPPER: The angle keeps shifting back and forth.

GANGEL: Right. Right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Might still happen.

TAPPER: But you see Barack Obama and Donald Trump having what seems like friendly chitchat. There's former President Bill Clinton with First Lady and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton walking around on the other side.

It's, of course, the closest to the seats, but also avoids the potential awkwardness of a moment between the Trumps and the Clintons that might not be as warm as the ones she's having with the fourth former vice president. Let's go to Kaitlan Collins, who's outside the cathedral.

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COLLINS: I mean, Jake, to be able to hear those conversations that are happening, these are just moments that you don't see hardly ever. And just to go back to that moment where Trump walked into the room and shook hands with Mike Pence, that is the first interaction that those two have had. They have not even been in the same room in four years.

I called to just double check that this morning with a few aides of both of theirs. And it just was a moment to see them come and shake hands with one another. And Jeff, obviously, to see this moment. Jeff, you covered President Obama to see the two of them speaking to one another, seated next to one another, which I don't think they have been at one of these funerals or gatherings where they've been in the same room before.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: They have not. It truly is extraordinary. The last time most of them were in the same room was in 2018 at the funeral of George H.W. Bush. President Trump was in office then. One person missing from, and this is Michelle Obama. I'm told by her advisers that she had a scheduling conflict. She's actually still in Hawaii from an extended holiday vacation. So she's missing there.

But if you look from these presidencies, they are linked one to another. That's how it works. Of course, the -- and Hillary Clinton, seeing her there. Jimmy Carter, as you remember, Kasie, we covered the Bernie Sanders campaign. Jimmy Carter supported him over her. So there are so many rifts between and rivalries between these former

presidents. But today, for at least you can see them, there is comedy and somewhat of a camaraderie.

KASIE HUNT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're united in a unique way now that they have all won the right to be a part of the fraternity. But as you point out, they are, before arriving to the Oval Office, fierce rivals with those. And in the case of the way our politics has played out in recent decades, you have seen members of the same families running for president.

You know, two Bushes serving as president of the United States, obviously, one Clinton serving, the other running. And this extended conversation between Donald Trump and Barack Obama, just so fascinating, especially when you think about how some of the things that Donald Trump said and did while Obama was president, while your point is taken, they didn't run against each other. It was so incredibly personal.

ZELENY: He claimed he wasn't an American citizen.

HUNT: And of course, as --

COLLINS: One here comes in the room, Vice President Harris and Doug Emhoff also entering the room. Harris is right behind President Biden in her motorcade. So obviously we should expect to see him soon as well.

And as we know, we're thinking as Gerald Ford's son is going to be reading his words, his eulogy for President Carter here. I was thinking this morning about how Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter both, in a way, had President Nixon to thank for coming into office.

And to look at this rare club here known as the President's Club. So many of the trajectories of their presidencies is what led their successor to then get into office with Biden and Trump, and to see this moment as Trump and Obama are continuing that conversation.

And with second gentleman Doug emhoff there, Vice President Harris there. Jake, the only person we are waiting on is President Biden himself.

TAPPER: That's right. And you know, it is tempting to try to read into what is going on in terms of who stood up for whom and who said hello to whom and who walked over to whom and who did not. We should also remember that this is a funeral and people are, generally speaking, trying to behave in a somber and appropriate tone. For evidence of that, just look at the normally backslapping, garrulous Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, both of whom are fairly restrained. It is a funeral of a member of their club, the President's Club.

That said, can't be easy for people in that group who have heard nasty things said about them by one or another of the people present, whether somebody is saying that Donald Trump is an existential threat to democracy or some of the more vicious things said about Barack Obama and where he was born and on. But it is a funeral, and it is a moment where people try to put aside such grievances for the larger purpose. Anita?

ANITA MCBRIDE, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO LAURA BUSH: I think you make a good point there, Jake, but it conjured up a memory that I have from Bush 41's funeral when all the former presidents, for whom there's families, everybody, were seated. George W. Bush was one of the last people to come in the room before the sitting president, of course, and he went and shook every single person's hand of his former club, former first ladies.

And again, it does -- yes, this is a reverent moment, of course, but it does take a person of character to sort of change that tone.

BASH: I just want to it's not happening right now, but I just want to emphasize that until 30 seconds ago, Donald. Trump was talking to Barack Obama.

MCBRIDE: Barack Obama.

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