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CNN Live Event/Special

President Trump Attends Congressional Luncheon; Biden Issues Preemptive Pardons for Gen. Milley, Dr. Fauci, and the Members and Staff of Jan. 6 CMTE; Trump's Pick for FBI Director Speaks to DC Arena Crowd; Soon: Trump Participates in First Honors Ceremony; Soon: President Trump Heads to Arena to Address Supporters. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 20, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: ... because this is, again, the working-class coalition that got Donald Trump elected. There is a big ...

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST, "OUTFRONT": Yes.

HUNT: ... difference between how many of Donald Trump's supporters live and how these billionaires live their lives. And, of course, Trump has let them in to the very center of the government, and we really saw that ...

BURNETT: Right.

HUNT: ... on display today.

BURNETT: And sitting today, Kasie, with the family.

HUNT: Yes.

BURNETT: With the family. It wasn't just even president. It was when you think about how many elected officials weren't able to fit in that room, but you have Mark Zuckerberg and ...

HUNT: Oh, Jared Kushner walking by shaking hands with each of those CEOs, I thought that was remarkable.

BURNETT: It was remarkable. It was a remarkable moment. And I agree with you. I've never seen anything like it. It is worth dwelling on it, because it is going to be something that becomes definitional for what this administration actually is.

Now, we do expect, when Trump gets here, he is going to be sitting on the red desk behind me that you can see in the distance, and he's going to sign about 200 executive orders. That's what they've been saying here. Well, already we know that he is going to be starting with pardons. And I want to talk about that.

He has issued - Trump has said he's going to be pardoning nonviolent offenders, commuting the sentence of violent offenders involved with January 6th. And it came immediately on the heels of Joe Biden's decision to enter - issue multiple preemptive pardons before leaving office today.

And now former president was trying to shield those, he said, who could face revenge from the Trump administration. And on that list of preemptive pardons was the former Republican congressman, Adam Kinzinger. You know him, of course. He was a member of the January 6th committee. He joins me now on the phone.

So former Congressman Kinzinger, I appreciate your time.

There's a lot I want to ask you about, but can I first just start with you being on the January 6 Select Committee. Did you have any idea that this preemptive pardon was coming or did you just find out about it today?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I didn't. And I just found out about it. I, you know, I've been very clear I don't - I'm not seeking it out. I don't want one. And actually, I did the cardinal sin of actually trying to sleep in today and woke up to my phone being blown up and, you know, and I saw this.

And so this pardon isn't one that you necessarily have to accept or reject because it's just a broad pardon to the January 6 committee members. And I think the sad thing for me is that, you know, look, we're - the pardon was put out not because we broke the law, but because we enforced it, because we did what we were asked to do by the House of Representatives and we got people answers.

And, you know, look, let's be clear with what's coming. Donald Trump didn't hide it. He's been very clear what he wants to do, and America voted for that, so here we are.

BURNETT: Here we are. And as we look at the flag flying over the Capitol and over the White House, they are now, of course, flying full-mast because of the executive order, right? And this would be a day - it was at half-mast at the beginning of the day because of Jimmy Carter's death. That has been changed by executive order happened immediately, Congressman.

We have seen dramatic changes already in these first hours, and that's before these anticipated up to 200 executive orders possibly are signed in the Capitol Arena where I am in just moments. But when the President spoke, he talked about you and your former colleague, Congressman Liz Cheney, getting these pardons specifically. And I'm - I don't know if you have heard the exact words, someone may have sent you a quote, but because I know you were trying to sleep in, Congressman, let me just play for you what the President said about you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Why are we helping some of the people - why are we helping Liz Cheney? I mean, Liz Cheney is a disaster. She's a crying lunatic and Crying Adam Kinzinger. He's a super crier. I never saw the guy not crying. He's always crying. I look at him - and I remember years ago, he was actually on my side, and then one day, you know, when you don't want to kill people in wars, they turn against you. Liz Cheney hated the concept of not going to war with everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So he calls you a super crier. I mean, what does that say to you about where we are?

KINZINGER: Well, first of all, I didn't sleep that late. It was like eight o'clock. So, but no - the - look, I mean, this is just - this is what we're going to expect for four years. It's just childish, right? We literally did our job and we embarrassed him. We showed that four 187 minutes he sat on his butt while his people tried to overthrow the government and that embarrassed him, you know?

The idea of saying that, you know, we're out there begging for a war - I mean, I'm a veteran, for God's sakes. I, you know, I'm in the military, for God's sakes. That's a silly, silly accusation. But that's what he does. I mean, again, it's going to be four years of making up stuff, exaggerating and punching down.

This should be a day - this is the crazy thing - this should be a day of celebration for Donald Trump. He should be standing up there unifying. I saw one of your commentators, I won't call out by name, saying that, you know, it was great to watch Donald Trump say these things in front of Joe Biden. Like what kind of vengeance? What kind of sore - sore winner are you? You won. Celebrate that. Put a vision out for people instead of continuing to look back and punch down. But again, this is, I think, the thing that unifies this movement and now they got to govern.

[15:05:01]

BURNETT: So, you know, Adam Schiff, Sen. Schiff, had served with you on the January 6th committee, Congressman. His comment on this was he was concerned about the precedent - that former President Biden is now set by setting - issuing these preemptive pardons. He found that concerning and he did not think they were necessary.

Do you share that concern that this has actually now set a precedent and a precedent that is not a precedent for the rule of law and an independent Justice Department?

KINZINGER: Not necessarily. Look, I do agree that it was unnecessary because we are protected by speech and debate, even if you think we did anything wrong, which, of course, we didn't. But then you have to litigate that through the courts.

I don't know if this is precedent setting or not. I mean, Donald Trump's threats are precedent setting, the threats to go after people that did their job basically as they were directed to from the House of Representatives. Let's keep in mind that even Kevin McCarthy put members on this committee. He then pulled him off later ...

BURNETT: Yep.

KINZINGER: But he put members on this committee. He recognized the legitimacy of it. So, look, what Donald Trump is doing is unprecedented. And, you know, I hope we can get back to normal in four years. We'll see.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Congressman, I appreciate your time. Congressman Adam Kinzinger ...

KINZINGER: You bet.

BURNETT: ... received that preemptive pardon from former President Joe Biden earlier today.

Kash Patel is still speaking. Let's just listen to him for a moment here on the stage at Capitol Arena.

KASH PATEL: We are going to put the men and women of America first. So listen, there's just one thing left to do. We all got work to do. We've got the greatest president, the greatest vice president in the history of the world. And so I just need you all to do a little bit more. Every time you see a law enforcement officer, every time you see a veteran, every time you see a teacher, shake their hand, give them a little bit of your time, because they're giving us all of our time. And don't forget to enjoy the ride, ladies and gentlemen.

God bless America. God bless these United States of America. God bless every one of you. I'm living the American dream. My name is Kash Patel and I ain't going anywhere. Let's go to work.

BURNETT: Kash Patel, director - FBI director nominee, speaking here at the Capitol Arena, standing ovation there, Kasie. And a nominee that seems likely to go through.

HUNT: At this point, he absolutely does. Of course, he has a hearing to get through as well. But, you know, I have to tell you, Erin, I'm just struck sitting here listening to this parade of Trump supporters who are taking the stage campaign-style on President Trump's day one.

BURNETT: Yes.

HUNT: I mean, how long did it take to go from the stately hall of the Capitol and the shared American tradition of the peaceful transfer of power and that moment where we're all supposed to think about all of the things that pull us together to this moment here, where we are right back ...

BURNETT: Yes.

HUNT: ... at a Trump rally, we are right back on the campaign trail ...

BURNETT: Yes.

HUNT: ... and getting a glimpse of how they are going to govern.

BURNETT: Yes, this is a campaign rally. And it's a campaign rally sort of at a DEFCON level, but it is right back into that.

HUNT: It's a campaign rally with power. They have power, right? They are reveling in the power that they have won. It's power (INAUDIBLE) ...

BURNETT: Yes, you just hear him yelling, we're back. You can see Dan Scavino, who had run social media, the Twitter account for the President, these chants. This is what we're hearing. Everyone - to give everyone a sense of it, this is what it's like in this room. And it can maybe feel quiet when you're watching your TV and watching a pomp and circumstance, as you were saying, Kasie, of a luncheon.

HUNT: Right.

BURNETT: Or something like that. This is what the President is coming to in just a few moments. Dan Scavino is speaking here. As he does, let's bring in our chief legal analyst, Laura Coates.

And Laura, so as Kasie and I are sitting here, we're all - we're just talking. We're looking at the desk. There's going to be up to 200 executive orders signed. Already, though, we know about these pardons and commutations for people involved with January 6. Do we have all the details on that yet?

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: We do not yet. Of course, he has not been specific about the level of pardons, what type of behavior is going to be targeted in terms of who to give the pardons to or commutations.=

But I want to go back to what Adam Kinzinger had to say. Remember, one of the most important things he said was, if I choose to accept the pardon from the preemptive side of former President Joe Biden, they actually are not required to accept a pardon from even a president of the United States. There's no legal deadline to accept or to decline one as well. And there's a good reason for this.

There's a lot to consider when you get a pardon. You no longer have the benefit of being able to plead the Fifth, saying, I can't testify because I face criminal prosecution. That means they can now get information gathering in the congressional setting, in the civil context as well ...

BURNETT: Yes.

COATES: ... without a fear of prosecution.

[15:10:00]

And for many of the people who have been trying to get information from January 6 committee members or members of former President Biden's family and the like, they want that fact finding mission. And so now that particular tool in the - on the quiver of somebody who did not have the pardon or is not available. But I am really struck by what you guys are seeing back there, just the people who are being praised and beyond. That desk is getting ready to have pardons for January 6th offenders.

And remember, we're talking a lot of people who entered that Capitol. Will Trump give a sort of sweeping pardon? Will he be specific? What does violence mean? How about people who were conspiratorial and planning? It's a huge question.

HUNT: You're right, Laura, it is a huge question. And I mean, one of the things I'm wondering about as we, you know, get to the details here, Erin, is what's going to happen for - for example, she mentions people that planned what happened on January 6th, Stewart Rhodes, the leaders of the Proud Boys, the white supremacist groups that were there at the Capitol.

And you know, I have to say, too, Erin, big picture. I can't help but think about, I mean, the last inauguration I covered, I was standing on the West Front of the Capitol watching as Joe Biden was about to get inaugurated and Donald Trump's helicopter flew over our heads, right? And many of the people in that crowd, I was there, many of our CNN colleagues were there on January 6th, that was just weeks in the rearview mirror, right?

Those Capitol police officers, many of them were still grappling with, and we lost a number of brave Capitol police officers in the wake of that rally because of just how difficult it was for them. In fact, I was supposed to talk with an officer who was there on that day on my show tomorrow morning, was told, you know what? Actually, watching the events today was too emotional for him to feel like he could come on with us ...

BURNETT: To even be able to come out and speak.

HUNT: ... in the morning to talk about it. Because, now - I never could have, in that moment, conceived of what we would see today, that not just would Trump be coming back into office.

BURNETT: Yes.

HUNT: But that those people who were beating and bear spraying those police officers off the gates of the Capitol might be not having to be held accountable for that.

BURNETT: Yes. I mean, and you have now, Laura, these preemptive pardons that Joe Biden has put, these blanket preemptive pardons. You heard Adam Kinzinger, maybe it made people sort of chuckle, perhaps, he said he slept in this morning and his phone blew up saying, oh - with the pardon.

But, you know, he was concurring with Adam Schiff and saying we didn't - this wasn't necessary. Adam Schiff is concerned about the precedent that this sets, which is against everything that Joe Biden says that he is doing the pardons to protect. So was this a good thing?

COATES: I mean, you have a stigma associated with people who either plead guilty or people who take a plea or people who get some sort of immunity, let alone someone with a pardon, because there is a court of public opinion that's going to scrutinize and read into every single thing. I don't care how often the President writes into his statement surrounding the pardon to try to dissuade people from having that assumption. People often still have that assumption.

But here's the problem, in our American system, frankly, it's not the favorite pastime, that's baseball. It's litigation. And it's very, very costly and time consuming. You could ultimately be exonerated, as Biden indicated, and still have to go through the process of defending oneself with lawyers who charge every six minutes.

So, he's thinking about that aspect as well. But at the end of the day - and getting a pardon, and if you accept it - if you choose to accept it, does not absolve you from having the responsibility to have to still appear, perhaps, before a congressional committee. And you heard Trump in his, what, number one or two or three of his inaugural addresses today, about the weaponization of government that he perceived at the DOJ level.

So clearly, it's still very much on the brain. You heard Pam Bondi just last week talk about this issue as well. And so, perhaps, it's prudent to address the elephant in the room that is, they are still vulnerable to, if not prosecution, certainly political persecution.

HUNT: And can I also ...

BURNETT: All right. Yes, go ahead, Kasie.

HUNT: Can I also just say that you're talking about political persecution, Laura. The politics here are such, and I've heard from a number of sources today ...

BURNETT: Yes.

HUNT: Democrats are quite frankly surprised, flabbergasted, blown away by the preemptive pardons of his family members that we saw come out at the very end ...

BURNETT: Yep.

HUNT: ... right before Donald Trump was ...

BURNETT: His brother.

HUNT: ... about to be sworn in and Joe Biden was going to lose that pardon power. That - the Hunter Biden pardon, many of my sources felt, already made it easier, less politically painful for Donald Trump to pardon all of these January 6th rioters, to use that pardon power in a way that could hurt him. Doing this with his own family at this 11th hour is clearly, at least in the minds of the Democrats I'm talking to ...

BURNETT: Yes.

HUNT: ... going to make it even harder to criticize Donald Trump for using the pardon power because of what Joe Biden did on his way out the door.

[15:15:03]

BURNETT: And what - yes, and we'll see what it means when it comes to the Trump family. I mean, this whole issue of precedent, it can very quickly boomerang. All right. Let's go to Jeff Zeleny because he's here with us at the Capitol One Arena with Kasie and myself. And Jeff, I Know, as we are watching these speeches all building up to the big act, which will be the president coming over here for a parade, executive orders, I know you've got some reporting on new appointments at the Justice Department when we talk about all these pardons. What have you found out?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORREPONDENT: Erin, we do. In the opening hours of the new Trump administration, he is making moves, we were told, that will apply to the Justice Department. Of course, his attorney general nominee, Pam Bondi, is still going through the confirmation process. So we are learning this afternoon that he is going to appoint James McHenry as the acting attorney general.

Of course, James McHenry served in the first Trump administration. He oversaw, effectively, the nation's immigration legal system, the court system. So, he will be the acting attorney general until at which point Pam Bondi is confirmed. Now, there was a vote scheduled, possibly Republicans hope for one this week. There was a question if Democrats would try and delay that vote. We will see how that goes in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Of course, her confirmation hearing was last week. And everyone, to a person, Democrats and Republicans, all agree she's qualified for the job and believe she will indeed be confirmed for the job. But for the moment, the acting attorney general is James McHenry. And a former personal lawyer for the President is also going to be the deputy acting attorney general.

So those are just some of the moves that President Trump is making this afternoon. And as he makes his way here to the Capitol One Arena, where we are, he in fact will be driving effectively by the Justice Department, by the FBI. And we just saw Kash Patel here, as you were talking, talking about those law enforcement officials saying people should thank them.

Well, that is certainly an open question, because the - some of the executive orders, the pardons that President Trump expects to sign are for those January 6th defendants, as you and Kasie have been talking about. You can see the desk behind us, as you've been saying. And some of those executive orders are likely to pertain to that.

So for now, at least, even as President Trump is at the lunch at the Capitol, his administration is already at work forming his Justice Department. Erin?

BURNETT: All right. Jeff and I - and just so we can get the shot up while Jeff and I are sitting here, that aerial shot does show you behind the dais there - I'm sorry, in front of the dais, the red desk. And that is the desk where, as President Trump ...

ZELENY: Right.

BURNETT: ... was delivering his inaugural address, they came out, put those extra seals on it, as he is now the president, and they do anticipate the signings to happen there.

And if you are looking for a place to have the visuals and the audio of celebration at signing executive orders about things like gender or the border, this is the place to do it. And, you know, unexpected - thrown at them - unexpected decision about the weather, and certainly President Trump is turning it to what he does best, which is a show, and that is what we are going to have right here at the Capitol Arena.

Stay with us to see how inaugural planners do pull off a parade inside this arena with that viewing dais, and what President Trump says to this crowd once he gets here. We do anticipate he will speak, and we are standing by for him to sign off on those day one slew of orders and actions. We'll be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:49]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": And welcome back to our continuing coverage of the President's inauguration. President Trump will soon take part in an honors ceremony at the U.S. Capitol. Inauguration events are running off schedule after the President went off script. We're breaking down everything that President Trump has said and done so far in his first few hours back in power.

I want to turn to Lauren Fox at the Emancipation Hall. Lauren, talk about the honors ceremony that's coming up soon.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Right behind me, they are already preparing. Troops are already in formation representing the six branches of the military, from the Army to the Marines to the Navy, the Air Force, the Space Force, as well as the Coast Guard. They're already lined up in six individual groups behind me.

Then, in the middle of them is the Army - is the Honor Guard, where they will be preparing also. They are represented, again, by each of the six branches of the military. Now, once the President and the First Lady enter this room, enter the stage, then they will begin this ceremony. Once that happens, then they will play "Hail to the Chief" by the Army Band.

After that, the President will be informed that the troops are ready for inspection. He will proceed off of the stage and participate in that inspection. And then at the very end of it, he'll go back onto the stage.

We expect that this process would only take a couple of minutes, but like you noted, Anderson, things have been running a little bit off schedule here at the U.S. Capitol.

I do want to point out just the striking difference between this moment and four years ago, because where I am standing right now is where after January 6th, four years ago, you saw the National Guard troops sleeping on the floor of this very hall for weeks after that attack. So just a really stark difference between this moment and four years ago, Anderson.

COOPER: Thanks very much. I want to bring in CNN's Phil Mattingly, who's standing by in our newsroom. He's been reviewing some of the key issues that President Trump raised in his speech. One, the Panama Canal. Phil, what stood out to you?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT & ANCHOR: Yes, Anderson, I think what's so striking is we have seen a number of statements from leaders. And on some level, they're kind of formulaic at this point. Everyone, friend or foe or somewhere in the middle, is kind of congratulating the President, wishing him good luck. Even Justin Trudeau of Canada, who has been challenged by President Trump, mocked on some level as well, has issued a statement saying that while he wants to work together, it is an important relationship and he wishes him the best.

One president has not, and that is the president of Panama, Jose Raul Mulino, putting out a statement in response to this from President Trump. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have been treated very badly from this foolish gift that should have never been made. And Panama's promise to us has been broken. The purpose of our deal and the spirit of our treaty has been totally violated. American ships are being severely overcharged and not treated fairly in any way, shape or form.

[15:25:07]

And that includes the United States Navy. And above all, China is operating the Panama Canal, and we didn't give it to China.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, Anderson, President Mulino, in a statement saying nothing about the working relationship or congratulating the President. He says explicitly that he rejects in its entirety the words of President Donald Trump. And that is a repeat of what he said shortly after President Trump started tweeting about this or posting on social media about this issue and then addressing it again in a press conference.

And the reason why this stood out to me is because we were just down in Panama. The individual who's holding the camera right now, Andrew Smith, was my photojournalist down there. And we were down there for five or six days talking to Panamanian officials, government officials, former government officials and Panama Canal authority officials. The authority is not commenting on what we heard from President Trump.

But if you take a look here, I was actually going back through the video that we took, that Andrew Smith took, that's the deputy administrator walking through and what she did and what we also heard from officials throughout the course of our travels down there. And we witnessed ourselves, as we went to the canal, the Chinese government, the Chinese Communist Party, not running the canal, not operating it.

There are no signs and no evidence that the U.S. is being disproportionately harmed by any rate increases. Rates certainly have gone up over the course of the last several years, but they have not been any different than the rates that other flagged countries have gotten. The U.S. Navy, same situation that they're dealing with.

And so the issues that you heard President Trump lay out in that speech very specifically are issues that on their face are not accurate. And what we found throughout the course of our travels down in Panama and in talking to officials at the Panama Canal, Anderson, was a combination of frustration and confusion. They were hopeful that once President Trump took office, perhaps the rhetoric would shift, the hyperbole would shift, and there would be some type of engagement.

They figured he wanted something. They just didn't know exactly what it was. And I think what you saw today and with this response that we've gotten from President Mulino is a recognition that this wasn't necessarily trying to lobby for something else. This wasn't an effort to have an angle to these issues. He means very clearly - he was reading from his prepared remarks when he made the Panama Canal - an issue here.

Now, I do want to say we heard from Sen. Marco Rubio, the President's pick to be his nominee for secretary of state, who made clear what are widespread concerns about Beijing's influence in Latin America, specifically as it pertains to the Panama Canal, two Hong Kong-based subsidiaries, ports that operate at both ends of the canal. Those are real concerns. The interesting thing, though, Anderson, Mulino has been very clear he wants to help President Trump on the issue he cares most about, immigration and the Darien Gap. We'll see how this goes forward. But certainly, certainly not what Panamanian officials wanted to hear.

COOPER: Yes. Phil Mattingly, thanks very much.

A lot to talk about with the team here in the D.C. bureau.

Michael Smerconish, what stands out to you here?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, SMERCONISH: A reminder to me that we tend - I tend to be focused on the domestic implications of what has just transpired, wondering about the executive orders, most of which are concerning domestic policy, but the world is watching. It's a reminder of the stakes in Panama, the stakes in the Middle East, the stakes, not the least of which being in Ukraine.

COOPER: David Chalian, I mean, the - it is just remarkable the change that we have seen just in the last couple of hours, I mean, from the old to the new, which is also the old.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, it's an instantaneous change. And the change isn't necessarily new, but it's such a dramatic change because of what Trump has promised. And I, you know, I think we're all eagerly awaiting the signing of these orders and seeing like what is in this initial slide. We've learned in covering Donald Trump, he loves to flood the zone. And so - I mean, just think about what we've covered already, right? I mean, you just talked to Phil about Panama Canal, we've done immigration, the economy. We - it's all over the map. He loves to flood the zone.

I think we have to make sure that we're looking at what are the things that are going to impact the lives of Americans immediately and separate that out from some of the stuff that may be a little bit more rhetorical in nature. And I think it's going to take us time to sift through just on day one, what those actions are.

COOPER: Well, Ashley, one thing to sign executive orders. I mean, obviously, there will be legal challenges to many of them, many of them won't stand. But it is part of it is, you know, signing it in front of all your fans in an - in a stadium.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

COOPER: It's giving them what they voted.

ALLISON: It's the red meat. And it is a performance that Donald Trump is so good at. He is a reality TV executive producer and celebrity.

The thing that also is extremely important is that he says things, though, that are not accurate and are not true. Phil Mattingly just debunked a lot of things. Daniel Dale earlier said the things that he said in the speech.

And so in this moment, when he presents as if 20,000 people represent all of America, it does not. What is not - in that arena is only half of America, 52 percent of America.

[15:29:59]

He will say things and people will begin to assume because he has Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg sitting - holding court with him, that everything that comes out of his mouth is accurate ...