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CNN Saturday Morning Table for Five. Recent Polling Shows Elon Musk Unpopular with American Public Due to Perceived Missteps of Department of Government Efficiency; President Trump Criticizes Judge for Issuing Injunction Related to Deportation of Immigrants; Split in Democratic Party Causing Controversy over Party Leadership; Research Shows Democrats Did Not Reach Americans Who Get News from TikTok in Last Election; Pentagon Effort to Purge Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Programs Removed Information about Jackie Robinson; U.S. Falls to Its Lowest Spot of 24th on World Happiness Report. Aired 10- 11a ET

Aired March 22, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:44]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, Donald Trump may not be rolling back the welcome mat for Elon Musk, but Americans are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What Elon Musk is doing and how we can stop them.

PHILLIP: Plus, the president looks to flip the scales of justice in MAGA's favor.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This judge is a Democrat activist.

PHILLIP: A new conspiracy launches a new war on judges.

Also, if Democrats want you to choose their fighter, will it float like a butterfly?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We live in a purple state, and I'm a pragmatist.

PHILLIP: Or sting like a bee.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, (D-NY): We need a Democratic Party that fights harder for us, too.

PHILLIP: And sports and politics once again mix.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That history cannot be erased.

PHILLIP: After a baseball hero gets benched in the Pentagon's diversity purge. Here in the studio, Melik Abdul, Jay Michaelson, Alyssa Farah Griffin,

and George Wallace. It's the weekend. Join the conversation at the "TABLE FOR FIVE".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Good morning. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America is talking about.

Donald Trump's X-man, is he wearing out his welcome? More polling shows this week that Elon Musk is underwater with Americans. Tesla stock continues to plunge, leading one of his investors to call for his ouster. Tesla vehicles are being vandalized and set on fire. Judges continue to reverse his firings or block DOGE from getting access to sensitive information of Americans. And Democrats, they're smelling blood. For instance, in a state Supreme Court race in Wisconsin, the Democrats are making Musk the boogeyman in ads, not Trump. And the theme of these popular events starring AOC and Bernie Sanders is fighting the oligarchs, and they're talking, obviously, about Elon Musk.

Alyssa, it seems pretty clear at this point that Musk is perhaps the most unpopular thing, maybe second only to tariffs, that Donald Trump is doing right now.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Elon Musk's popularity is certainly lagging Donald Trump's. Donald Trump still has tremendous support within the Republican Party, despite the fact that the cost of living isn't going down, high prices, and the pushback around tariffs. And I have predicted this for a long time. Elon Musk is not going to have a long time in the Trump administration. Mark my words on this, because he will end up being a drag on Donald Trump's approval.

And right now, we're in this place where there's a lot of fear over DOGE cuts. What is being cut? Is it just waste, fraud and abuse, or is it actual services people rely on? And come a couple of months from now, if suddenly people aren't getting services they expect or Social Security checks are delayed, or you're having to line up physically at an office that's going to come, that's going to come home to roost, and Elon is going to take the fall.

PHILLIP: Yes. Your thoughts?

GEORGE WALLACE, COMEDIAN: I like this lady. I like the way she talks. She's talking about Elon Musk and Social Security. Now you're getting into my territory. Now do I -- I can't cuss on this show, but you start taking my money, you're going to hear not only me, the Republicans are going to be cussing. You cannot take our money back. You know, we worked for this money. We put this money in the bank for us, for our social living right now. And that's very important to us. Don't touch our Social Security money. And I think the Republicans are going to --

PHILLIP: Yes, that and the veterans, right?

WALLACE: And the veterans.

PHILLIP: Those are the two issues where they've been pretty callous with the cuts, and then have tried to claim that they're not doing what they're doing.

The other interesting thing, I mean, Trump today, they're all focusing on the vandalism, which is abhorrent, right? Like people should not be burning cars of any kind. Now, the Trump administration is taking this personally. I mean, listen to Donald Trump in the Oval Office saying essentially that this is worse, this is the worst thing that he's heard of since January 6th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: When I looked at those showrooms burning and those cars, not one or two like seven, eight, ten, burning, exploding all over the place. These are terrorists. You didn't have that on January 6th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: I'm sorry. I shouldn't --

PHILLIP: Really.

WALLACE: I shouldn't be laughing.

PHILLIP: January 6th.

MELIK ABDUL, MEMBER BLACK AMERICANS FOR TRUMP COALITION: Look, so what better way to start the morning than, Saturday morning than with George.

(LAUGHTER)

ABDUL: What better way to start it? But to your point, though, so I am one of those.

[10:05:00]

We need, everybody needs to be able to denounce these type of attacks on Tesla dealerships, the harassment that people who own Teslas, like all of that stuff, it should be condemned. There shouldn't be any wiggle room about that. I am less concerned, though, about Tesla stocks. You know, that's just me. And I know a lot of people are more concerned about that. I'm not.

PHILLIP: Including the commerce secretary.

ABDUL: Including the commerce secretary. But I think that, of course, you know, this is Donald Trump's guy, you know, so now everybody, you know, many Republicans and conservatives who weren't exactly E.V. friendly are now E.V. friendly.

WALLACE: Friendly, yes. ABDUL: But I did want to say, to just piggyback off of what Alyssa

was saying is that, and I've also said that Elon Musk would be a problem, not just for Donald Trump, though, but for the Republican Party. And I think that we're seeing this now. And this isn't the first set of polls that have shown that Elon Musk, Elon Musk's popularity is going down. But I was looking at FOX News did a poll today of the top five administration proposals. None of them are about efficiency when it comes to DOGE. So even with FOX News --

PHILLIP: Yes, and in that same FOX poll this week, they asked, how concerned are you that not enough thought and planning has gone into government spending cuts? Sixty-five percent say they are concerned. Americans don't want bloated government. They actually don't mind cuts, but they don't think that these are being done in a way that is coherent and rational.

JAY MICHAELSON, SUBSTACK AUTHOR, "BOTH/AND WITH JAY MICHAELSON": This could have been the biggest win for the Trump administration, because nobody likes the size of government and government inefficiency. But, you know, Donald Trump's great gift is empathy. He is able to somehow tap in emotionally to his supporters. And Elon Musk has said that empathy is a bug in civilization, and we shouldn't have it. I mean, this is the least empathetic, compassionate -- he's not quite a public official, but public person who has been in government that I can remember. And, you know, since I don't support a lot of the policies that he's actually pushing forward, I'm delighted. This is exactly the wrong face of government reform.

ABDUL: And can I just say just quickly, just because Alyssa, you talked about he won't be around long, I just want to remind everybody, as a special government employee, he has 130 days to serve within a calendar year. I've said many times before, I think that after the 130 days, Elon Musk will be gone.

MICHAELSON: It is a convenient out, right? We know that Trump doesn't care a lot about the niceties of the law. He could just go over it if he wants. But I agree, this is a perfect way for him to get out.

PHILLIP: Musk has also forced Trump into some boxes. He started talking about impeaching the judges for saying -- the chief justice to put out a statement saying, this is not how you disagree with something that happens in the courts. He, this week, reportedly was supposed to get a briefing at the Pentagon department about China. Trump then had to say that it would be inappropriate for him to do that, and perhaps they scrapped the plans. So there are a lot of ways that Musk is inserting himself in the Trump administration, trying to throw his weight around, and then Trump has to clean up.

GRIFFIN: Yes, he's gotten over his skis. And listen, Donald Trump is somebody with main character energy. He does not want someone else who is overstepping him, who is trying to outshine him, who is trying to step into the role that he has. And I worked at the Pentagon in the first Trump administration. The notion that a special government employee, never mind his defense contracts, would be briefed on war plans to China, these are the most sensitive plans. We have them. We wouldn't even publicly acknowledge that we have plans in case something were to happen with China. That is ridiculous. And I think how quickly the Trump White House, they called Hegseth in, they pushed back on it, shows that they recognized that was a massive overstep. Whether it took place or not, I don't know. But I will say that Eric Schmitt was on that byline, the most plugged in Pentagon reporter at "The New York Times," who definitely was getting that from somewhere senior.

PHILLIP: Yes. George, do you think that this is fair game for the butt of jokes from Democrats? I mean, we saw that with the late night hosts and Tim Walz, the former V.P. nominee for the Democrats. They're joking about the downfall of Tesla and that stock and Elon.

WALLACE: I'm sorry, I'm laughing already. Of course, it's a joke. You know, I'm losing money in Tesla, by the way, OK. But I don't care.

PHILLIP: I mean, honestly, virtually every American, if you are invested in the stock market, you're probably losing. If you have a mutual fund, you're losing money on Tesla --

MICHAELSON: But $112 billion, which is how much Elon has lost, I'll take that loss. If I can afford to lose $112 billion, I'm doing all right.

WALLACE: Thats pretty good, right?

MICHAELSON: Yes.

WALLACE: Well, I'm not losing that much, but I'm losing a lot. So we got to get this --

PHILLIP: Probably should still hold on to your stock. Who knows? Stocks go up. They go down.

Coming up next for us, MAGA launches a new war on judges and creates a conspiracy.

Plus, is the Democratic Party having its Tea Party moment? Why the old guard may not be able to ignore AOC and Bernie Sanders much longer.

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[10:14:31]

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't know who the judge is, but he's a radical left. He was Obama appointed. And he actually said we shouldn't be able to take criminals, killers, murderers. Horrible. The worst people, gang members, gang leaders, that we shouldn't be allowed to take them out of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Donald Trump has been impeached twice, and now that he and Elon Musk want the judges who disagree with them to join the club. In fact, Musk is throwing his cash to lawmakers who support that stance. [10:15:00]

Now, the sin that was committed this week, well, Judge James Boasberg wants answers about whether the administration willfully defied his order to turn around deportation flights. But according to the attorney general.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: What I will tell you is this judge has no right to ask those questions. The judge had no business, no power to do what he did. They're meddling in foreign affairs. They're meddling in our government. And the question should be, why is the judge trying to protect terrorists who have invaded our country over American citizens?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: But it's sensible to get answers, since the administration won't reveal who the alleged gang members even are, or what they allegedly did, and what led to their deportations. When it comes to the judge himself, MAGA can't say what his high crime and misdemeanor even is. And their attacks are earning a rare rebuke from the chief justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: The chief justice said more than two centuries we understood that essentially impeachment was for very rare circumstances and not an appropriate response to rulings you disagree with. What's your reaction to the courts stepping in to make a statement here? They didn't make a statement when Joe Biden decided to forgive all those student loans.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: He didn't mention my name in the statement. I just saw it quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Well, that was his response earlier this week. And then by the end of the week, he got a little bit more explicit. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: We can't let a judge say that he wants -- he didn't run for president. We just can't let that happen. It would be so bad for our country. I won on the basis of getting criminals out of our country. You can't stop that with a judge sitting behind a bench that has no idea what goes on, who happens to be a radical left lunatic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Jay, in a way, I'm not surprised by Trump making those comments. I'm actually a little bit more surprised by Pam Bondi and that response. The judge has no right to rule on the law?

MICHAELSON: It's outrageous. I think that's one of the most shameful things an attorney general has ever said in the history of this country. And that's a high bar. That was absolutely repellent, and it should be condemned across the aisle. First of all, the attorney general is not Donald Trump's personal lawyer. This is what people were afraid of. It's now happened. Donald Trump has turned the Department of Justice into his own personal law firm, which is outrageous.

Second, a Harvard law professor visiting Harvard law school this year, judicial review, foundation of our democracy. This is the very basis of what it means to have a constitutional democracy. And so, I don't expect Donald Trump has read the Constitution, but to have any member of the bar say that it's not within the legitimate purview of a judge to review an executive action, that would be grounds for disbarment. That is an outrageous statement. And I cannot condemn it enough.

And what's most disappointing, I think, is that there are moderate voices who are not yet rising up to object to this total distortion of our constitutional system.

PHILLIP: The idea, I think, that they're putting forward here is that they don't have to follow the law when it comes to immigration. They don't have to give anybody due process. They don't have to listen to judges, and they can just arbitrarily classify anything that they label as immigration, as a national security concern. And then they've got carte blanche. Is that really what kind of country we're living in now?

ABDUL: In part. I think that -- I was listening to Jonathan Turley earlier today, and he was talking about some of the concerns that, for instance, Justice Kagan has expressed had expressed about these lower court rulings and whether or not they were able to usurp executive authority. It was an interesting conversation.

What I'm concerned about, what concerns me when it comes to, for instance, this, what, 1917, 98, whatever this law alien, I can't even think of the name of it at this point. Just had a brain freeze on that. But what concerns me is that when the government says, without having to, without proving anything at this point, or they're using some obscure law to go after people, and it seems like more so retribution than anything else. I remember during the January 6th day, the obstruction of official proceeding charge that many January Sixers were charged with, and the courts had to come back and say, well, no, that was about destruction of documents and stuff.

So I'm concerned, because I haven't heard from the administration, the evidence to in some people, at least the accusations are, is that some of those people were not members of the gang. So you have to be concerned about that from the government perspective.

PHILLIP: One of those, one of those people was apparently a soccer player who was tortured by the Maduro regime in Venezuela, was legally here on an asylum claim, and then was deported because he had a tattoo for a football team on his arm. [10:20:04]

GRIFFIN: Right, it seemed like the Trump administration wanted to lean into something that is popular and that they're on the right side of the American public is, which is deporting criminals who are here illegally. Thats something the majority of the public supports. But it turns out, as we get more information about who was actually deported, there were a lot of people who fell through the cracks. And the conditions that they're now in because they're off U.S. soil and our ability to bring them back is somewhat restricted, are terrible.

And its un-American. But what I would say is this, my one caution is Trump is going right up to the line of violating the courts, of directly saying were not going to be following your rulings. But DOJ is engaging, and I think people like Chuck Schumer and others are saying right now, we are in a constitutional crisis, you risk becoming the boy who cried wolf. There will likely be a moment that Donald Trump, black and white, clearly oversteps that line. And no one's going to need to tell you. You're going to need to know. And I imagine the Supremes are going to weigh in in a more heavy-handed way. But I do worry about this any time that he's kind of pushing back or using this language he does, it's a constitutional crisis. It starts to fall on deaf ears.

MICHAELSON: It's also, I agree with that. And the term "constitutional crisis" is now being drained of meaning because the other side is using it. So the other side is saying, well, these judges are creating a constitutional crisis.

And I agree. And my most optimistic scenario is that a lot of folks who we sort of who, a lot of people on the left would like to have entered the fight already are waiting. Exactly as you said. They're sort of waiting for that line to be crossed. Maybe its Donald Trump disobeying a Supreme Court ruling, perhaps on birthright citizenship, for example. And then I think we will see former presidents, I think we'll see the Mitch McConnell of the world. I think we'll see, there were a number of Republicans in the House who said, no, this is not -- we're not going to sign up for impeachment for this, because that's not how the system works. And I agree. I mean, I think it's like five minutes to midnight, but it's not midnight yet.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: Nobody I think, actually, nobody understands what constitutional crisis means. So for that reason alone, you might leave that alone.

Just one last thing to point out. All of a sudden, Republicans in particular are concerned about courts putting down injunctions. But Stephen Miller when Biden was president, was boasting about injunctions stopping Biden policies. Biden is violating a judicial injunction for a federal court. There's a whole list of tweets from him heralding the courts for stopping Joe Biden. And now that the shoe is on the other foot, they are taking a completely different stance.

WALLACE: And everything is OK now. So it's different. Did all three, all four of you study political science? Because the way you guys talk. Now, I'm from the everyday. I'm an everyday guy in America, OK? This is just flat out hatred that Trump is promoting here. That's all it is. Everything he does --

ABDUL: Me?

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE: Yes, because you, I don't know whether you're a Republican or what.

ABDUL: I am.

WALLACE: You are?

ABDUL: I am.

WALLACE: Really, good to meet you.

ABDUL: Well, I can't reach all the way over there.

WALLACE: Thats my point. I don't need to shake your hand.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: Coming up next, while Democrats try to find out their next move as a party in the Trump era, they're being shown two very different paths, two different lawmakers are giving them options here. We'll debate which path the party should take next.

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[10:27:20]

PHILLIP: Welcome back. Liberals are lost, but whose map will bring them back? While the party elders twist in the wind after the voting with Republicans, there are two schools of thought now about what to do now. Could you, should you be a leftist and a brawler or a pragmatic moderate? The pitch from the brawlers is this -- it's drawing big crowds all over the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, (D-NY): This isn't just about Republicans. We need a Democratic Party that fights harder for us, too. I want you to look at every level of office around and support brawlers who fight, because those are the ones who can actually win against Republicans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: At the other end of the spectrum are the moderates. They think that full time activism is no way to win back votes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't do what she does because we live in a purple state, and I'm a pragmatist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: That is a very interesting contrast. Since a new report from the Democratic Research Group now shows Kamala Harris and Democrats lost ground with young and disengaged voters thanks in part to TikTok. Why? Well, the platform amplified populist and male-centric messaging throughout the campaign.

A lot going on here for the Democratic Party, but it's really important, because do they take the AOC-Bernie Sanders route, which drew 15,000 people on like a Friday afternoon, or do they go with, you know, Elissa Slotkin, who I'm not sure most Americans would even know her name, but she won in a purple state in a very tough year for Democrats in the Senate.

ABDUL: So I think it was in "The New York Times." And that may, may have been Ezra. I can't remember who it was, but there was a poll that young 18 to 24 year old men are 20 percent more likely to vote Republican than 18, I think 18 year old women.

PHILLIP: Right. Trump basically narrowly won young men, which is unheard of, right, it's unheard of in politics not to --

ABDUL: What I see happening with the Democratic Party is similar to, and I'll just say, similar to what happened in the Republican Party post George W. Bush. Throughout Barack Obama's administration, George Bush wasn't the galvanizing figure for Republicans. It was during the Tea Party era. And I think that the Democratic Party is in that, in a similar wilderness, and they may need -- because Barack Obama was a movement candidate. You may not like Donald Trump. Donald Trump is a movement candidate. And the Democrats, I don't know if people at this point want pragmatism.

[10:30:02]

Everybody should, you know, everybody should want that. But I'm not sure if the Democratic Party wants that. They want a brawler. And you, and moderates don't brawl, if that makes sense.

GRIFFIN: But moderates win.

PHILLIP: George, I am curious of your take on this. Just, you know, you described yourself as a sort of everyman, but what do you think is the solution here? Is it somebody who is allowed fighter, or somebody who is just head down, get the work done in Washington, don't make a lot of noise?

WALLACE: Somebody that's honest and really know what you're doing. And let's say a new Barack Obama or somebody with that type movement, somebody with that type of personality.

PHILLIP: A charismatic person.

WALLACE: A charismatic person like George Wallace.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: He launched his campaign here on this show.

WALLACE: If I want to run, if I want to run for president, the problem is I probably would win because you just want to do what the people want. You want all of this crazy stuff, the hate. That's the worst thing you could do, hate and discriminatory practices. Let's get rid of that. Let's take care of the people. And that's why comedians like the prime minister of Ukraine, he's a comedian, I think all countries should, comedians should be because you know you're going to take care of the people. Comedians are some of the smartest people in the world.

PHILLIP: Donald Trump is a kind of comedian in his own right. I mean, he is --

WALLACE: Who?

PHILLIP: Donald Trump. He likes --

WALLACE: Donald Trump is not a comedian. Donald Trump, let me tell you what Donald Trump is. Donald Trump is a BS-er, OK. You know why I know he's a BS-er? That's what I do. I specialize in it. All BS-ers know each other, OK. I'm talking to you, Melik. All BS-ers know each other. You know, we don't know each other, but we know each other, you know?

(LAUGHTER)

See, I'm a New Yorker. All New Yorkers know a BS-er. We know this stuff. You know, that's what, that's what we do. Ask a comedian, 98 percent of the comedians are against Trump because they don't want that, all that hatred that --

PHILLIP: They love to hate him because they love to make jokes about him.

I want to spend a second, though, on TikTok because this is really important. Look at this data from -- this is David Shor's Blue Rose Research. The voters who got their news from TikTok had the biggest swing from Biden in 2020 to away from Harris in 2024, meaning they moved toward Trump, more than voters who got their news from us in broadcast, or from local TV or from Facebook. What is it about TikTok that is having an effect here? And are Democrats dropping the ball in engaging with the people who are getting their news from those platforms?

GRIFFIN: I mean, you reach voters where they are, and I think that there was an overemphasis on more traditional media. And Donald Trump, I said it about a year out from the campaign, this is going to come down to the new media wars and who reaches more people in new media. And he played it smart. He did not the way he ran in 2016 call in to "Morning Joe" every day and play the cable news circles. He was going places, Theo Von, I didn't know who he was, but millions and millions of men listen to him. And I would say this. I think Democrats need to hone around a message.

I think part of why they're in the wilderness is Donald Trump, despite being the president, is seen as anti-establishment. He runs against something. He wants to shake up Washington. That was always what liberals were. Thats always what progressives were. You were protesting Vietnam. You were the civil rights movement. They need to find where they're fighting for the people and not just defending the status quo, because no one likes the status quo.

PHILLIP: I think that's exactly right. And there's a fixation with the politics of the past. They want to only talk about unions and like the structures of government, but they're not talking about the people who don't identify with those structures.

MICHAELSON: I think that's right. I also, I wonder, though, if there's like a correlation without causation on the TikTok thing. I mean, there was, first of all, Kamala Harris did try to go on some of these podcasts, and people like Joe rogan said no.

PHILLIP: Yes, but she played it really safe.

MICHAELSON: That's fine. Look, I don't know, I mean, we could really blame Joe Biden for staying in the race at all, right? We could have had a Democratic primary last year. And we could have actually vetted these candidates on this basis. Instead, we did it with two weeks before the with the convention. So, you know, we could basically play that.

But I don't think that there's -- I think some of the issues around TikTok are really issues around the meaning crisis, the masculinity crisis, the economic crisis broadly, not in like the details which Democrats love to talk about, but just in general. We can make fun of the price of eggs, but the reality is that that impacts a lot of people.

I mean, what Bernie was able to do, and I'm not sure AOC is able to do it. What Bernie was able to do when he ran was tap into that economic resentment and actually have solutions that would have helped, right? So the Democrats have a lot of solutions that would have helped, right? But they didn't tap into the resentment. Donald Trump is a master of tapping into the resentment, but his solutions are only going to make things worse. The tax cuts for the rich, right, the tariffs, et cetera. So it's that magic Venn diagram of can you tap into that anger and also connect it to solutions that would really work. And I actually, I'm not optimistic that were going to have a fair election in 2026. But if we do, I'm pretty optimistic that the Democrats will have a good year.

WALLACE: All right.

PHILLIP: All right, we'll see how that goes, everyone.

We've all heard the phrase stick to sports, but when does politics talk become sports talk?

[10:35:2] And who gets to decide that? We'll debate next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: The Trump administration's move fast and break things mantra went afoul this week. The Pentagon's effort to purge all things DEI included the deletion of a baseball hero and service member, Jackie Robinson.

[10:40:00]

So how did this happen? To find all things linked to diversity, military units were told to use search keywords like "racism," "ethnicity," "history," "first values," "justice," and "respect." Robinson's honor page was restored only after a series of attempts to explain why it was purged in the first place, but by then the damage was already done.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MINA KIMES, HOST AND ANALYST, ESPN: Jackie Robinson was known for many things, but above all, first and foremost, it was his ongoing courage in the face of racial discrimination. In fact, in addition to crossing the color barrier in baseball, he served in a segregated unit in the Army, and in one instance, refused to move to the back of the bus, was arrested, and acquitted. That matters. That history cannot be erased.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: She's right about that. Mina Kimes's words prompted one of her former colleagues, Robert Griffin III, to say this, "Sports shows on TV should be about sports, not politics." Here we go again. I mean, it is politics. Jackie Robinson, he's a political figure. Why? Because racism made him political. He could have just been an athlete, but he had to fight for his rights in this country. And then he became an activist. George?

WALLACE: Muhammad Ali also.

PHILLIP: Yes.

WALLACE: Great guy, great, once again, with love, how he promoted love. I'm always going to go to love, promoting love. But what has happened now in this whole administration, just everybody hate, hate, hate, hate. That's what we got to get rid of.

PHILLIP: They're saying that it's A.I., that they that they use some search words. But even the --

GRIFFIN: The choice of words, though.

PHILLIP: The prompts are what I don't understand. Why are you searching for history to find DEI?

WALLACE: Right? GRIFFIN: Can I just say, like, having worked at the Pentagon, one of

the things that, whether you were a civilian or military people were most proud of is that we have the most diverse force in history. We saw that as a strength. We saw we had more women recruits. So that then you would step into this role where you're told to delete things from our history. And they've also gotten rid of some significant moments, like the Enola Gay that they ended up deleting because of, presumably, the word "Gay" came up.

(LAUGHTER)

GRIFFIN: In this case, I'm generally of the mind. I don't need celebrities weighing in on politics. I don't need athletes. But the story, he is not a significant figure if not for the fact that he's the first black man to play Major League Baseball. Like the race, the politics, and the sports are all part of the story, and the idea that you can't talk about that on ESPN would be absurd.

ABDUL: And he was gifted. I mean, that is another thing. He was qualified to be exactly where he was, but he was prevented because of his race. And I think this is -- and I've asked myself over and over again, why is it that when we have these conversations about what's happening in government, DEI going too far, that they seem to be pretty much limited to the Pentagon? We aren't hearing these stories at other agencies. Not that it isn't happening, but it's because of Pete Hegseth and this anti-DEI --

PHILLIP: He has an expansive view of what DEI is. And it includes any accomplishment of women, people of color, anything that, I guess, is historical in nature.

MICHAELSON: If you look at who was purged and who is left literally the pictures on the wall, it's like the movie "Do the Right Thing." Like, there's only white men left on the wall, right? And that's outrageous. But it is Pete Hegseth, and I do wonder about American military preparedness when our secretary of defense is so myopically focused on this one issue.

But I would say it's not only the Department of Defense. In Idaho, a teacher had a banner in her classroom saying, everyone is welcome, and she's been ordered to take that down. And that's still happening.

PHILLIP: Because they said it was an opinion of hers that everyone is welcome.

MICHAELSON: Everyone is welcome. My daughter is a first grader. I hope that everybody is welcome in her first grade class.

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE: She's still in court on that.

MICHAELSON: I don't know. She might get sued. So I do think there is this kind of strain, there's a vibe shift as well as these policies. And we need to not go along with this vibe shift, right. The idea that every -- I mean, we can have a conversation about DEI initiatives. We can have a conversation about Affirmative Action. I'm not saying those are off the table, but to simply erase history almost literally, that's outrageous.

PHILLIP: It certainly is.

Coming up next for us, though, are you feeling sad lately? Well, you're not alone. Why the U.S. just hit its lowest ever position on the world happiness report. Yikes. We'll tell you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:49:02]

PHILLIP: If you're happy and you know it, you may be more alone than you think.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: The U.S. is falling to its lowest spot ever on the world happiness report, 24 out of 147 nations.

MICHAELSON: I'm surprised we're ahead of Belize.

PHILLIP: And 24th, maybe that's not as bad as it could be. And it's down more than a dozen spots, though. That's the real key thing here. The criteria measures everything from caring and kindness for others to how many people are eating alone and how many would return a lost wallet. And yes, one factor cited is the rise of political polarization.

Well, as someone who actually enjoys eating alone from time to time.

WALLACE: OK.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: They didn't survey me. But one in four Americans reported eating all meals alone the previous day. That is a 53 percent increase since 2003. It is kind of sad.

GRIFFIN: I mean, listen, there are trends of less human connectivity due to social media and the digital age. But I have to say one thing in defense of America, because I feel like any time we're in a politically polarized moment, people are like, I want to move to Europe. I want to do x, y, and z.

[10:50:02]

We are still the greatest nation on earth in terms of you can jump from one socioeconomic class in your lifetime to another in a way that's nonexistent in a lot of the world. We also aren't a purely homogeneous country. We are a diverse nation racially, ethnically, socioeconomically, religiously. But that comes with challenges. That comes with a lot of infighting, a lot of sometimes hate and bigotry that we see. But I still would choose to live here over anywhere else on earth. PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, look, just to underscore what you're saying,

the Nordic countries are really topping the happiness list, OK? Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, the Netherlands, they are very happy, but they are very happy probably because they don't actually have as much opportunity as you do. But they don't have as much diversity. They don't have as many things to sort out amongst themselves.

ABDUL: No, that's true. And, you know, to piggyback, I'm always, I'm piggybacking off of Alyssa again. But yes, I mean, this idea that, you know, a lot of people say it's so much better in other -- now, Europe is great. Like it is.

PHILLIP: It's beautiful. It's beautiful.

ABDUL: Whether or not you want --

PHILLIP: But economic mobility?

ABDUL: Yes. And there's so many other challenges. And it's so ironic that a number of those, I would love to look at the numbers to see what is the actual diversity in some of these places, because I think that is something that complicates it. And this whole, I think we moved one point from last year, I think last year we were 23, number 23 or something like that. This type of stuff, yes, sure. You know, it's a fun story, but at the end of the day I would much rather live in America than anyplace else in the world.

MICHAELSON: I'll be the Debbie Downer on this.

ABDUL: Be the Debbie Downer.

MICHAELSON: As a rabbi, I mean, I sort of see a lot of people with, who are intense, intense spiritual crisis right now.

WALLACE: You're a rabbi?

MICHAELSON: That too. And I think, I think we really should take the meaning crisis really seriously. It's the meaning crisis, it's the loneliness crisis, it's the masculinity crisis. It's also a spiritual crisis. You know, I think on the left, a lot of folks thought that, oh, great, religion is terrible. We're going to get rid of religion. We'll be in a brave new world. Well, what happened was a lot of people really had their lives and their communities centered on religious institutions, and nothing has really filled that gap except for the likes of Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate.

And so in in some parts of the more conservative right, there's a real embrace of religion, but that's also leaving a lot of people behind in terms of how, who's excluded from that. And this crisis, I think shifted the election in 2024. It's pervasive. And the numbers, when you look at rates of suicidality among 18 to 25, they're off the charts.

PHILLIP: And anxiety and depression and all of that stuff. I mean, the lack of community is a big part of it here. Maybe also, George, we just need more comedy.

WALLACE: Well, let me tell -- oh, no, you didn't say that. For the man that's in the happy business, let me tell you this. America started being unhappy 15 years ago. And what happened to this country 15 years ago? Who is in charge of this? Who is the president of this country right now? I'm blaming him for all of the hatred in America. I'm blaming him for people feeling sad, not as happy as they should be.

PHILLIP: Well, we also went through a great recession, so that didn't --

ABDUL: And COVID.

PHILLIP: Lots of stuff has happened.

WALLACE: OK, you mentioned COVID. Go to the same guy. Thank you.

PHILLIP: All right, guys, coming up next, the panel is going to give us their unpopular opinions, what they are not afraid to say out loud.

But first, a programing note. Get the inside story on Twitter with an all new episode of "Breaking the Bird." It airs tomorrow night, 10:00 p.m., only on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:58:13]

PHILLIP: We are back, and it's time for your unpopular opinions. You each have 30 seconds to tell us yours. Alyssa, you're up.

GRIFFIN: OK, so Chuck Schumer is getting a lot of flak for keeping the government open. I actually completely agree with him that he did, but I'm surprised that Hakeem Jefferies is getting by unscathed. He was technically outmaneuvered by Mike Johnson. He thought for sure that there would be some Republican defections and this bill would not get through the House. And so he made no effort to create noise for the Republicans he could have pulled off. I would have been talking to Andy Biggs, Chip Roy. I would have been on TV saying, you guys all committed to never support a CR. And he didn't. He really thought the votes were going to be there. And then is publicly kind of creating distance and criticizing Chuck Schumer. He is not proving to be Nancy Pelosi at this time. They need someone more strategic as the leader.

PHILLIP: Interesting.

WALLACE: And you did it in less than 30. You did it 28. Now, I'm going to try to do this in less than the 30 seconds. I already wasted 10 of my seconds. But listen to me, when I'm in charge of this country, I told you I was running for president, right? I'm talking real fast, because Chick-fil-A is going to be open on Sunday. I don't give a damn, I don't give a damn, Chick-fil-A is going to be open on Sunday, OK? You know how much chicken you can sell on a Sunday? Everybody wants a chicken on a Sunday. If Jesus wants --

PHILLIP: If Chick-fil-A were open on a Sunday, it would be game over.

WALLACE: You took two of my seconds.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: I'm sorry, but it's true.

OK. All right, Jay?

MICHAELSON: Here's my appeal to Elon Musk. Shut down the TSA. Get rid of it. This is ridiculous. I fly all the time for work. I don't have to take my shoes off because I'm in the I surrender all of my privacy rights to the government program. But this is security theater. It has been shown time and again not to work. I don't think anything will really get me to support Donald Trump, but if he gets rid of the TSA.

PHILLIP: That might be the most popular thing he ever does if he got rid of TSA.

Go ahead, Melik.

ABDUL: Let me clear my throat. For everybody out there, this is what I need you to know. Sugar belongs in Kool-Aid, but never grits.

WALLACE: Say that again. Say it again. You need to go to jail. Don't put sugar in grits. Don't do it.

ABDUL: It don't belong.

PHILLIP: He stole 10 of your seconds.

WALLACE: Mississippi in Georgia.

PHILLIP: All right, I agree with you all. That's 100 percent accurate.

Everyone, thank you very, very much. And thank you for watching "TABLE FOR FIVE". You can catch me every weeknight, 10:00 p.m. eastern with our News Night Roundtable, and anytime on your favorite social media platforms, X, Instagram TikTok, Bluesky, you name it.

But in the meantime, CNN's coverage continues right now.