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CNN Live Event/Special
CNN Town Hall: Senator Bernie Sanders. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 09, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right, Brad, Van, I thank you both very much.
It's a very good preview of what we're about to see over the course of the next hour, this special event, CNN's town hall with Senator Bernie Sanders moderated by Anderson begins right now.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN MODERATOR: And good evening. We are live from the nation's capital, where we just witnessed a historically tumultuous day for the United States economy.
Welcome to CNN's town hall with independent Senator Bernie Sanders. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Since taking office, President Donald Trump has waged a sweeping effort to reshape the federal government, America's role in the world, and the global economy.
Many Democrats have been frustrated by their party's efforts to counter the president's agenda and regroup after their losses in November.
Tonight, as President Trump approaches 100 days in office, we're talking with one of the country's highest profile progressive leaders, Senator Bernie Sanders, who's been on a nationwide tour talking with voters about his ideas for the path forward.
We've assembled a group of voters, mostly Democrats and independents, also some Republicans who have questions for Senator Sanders about the direction of the country.
To find our questioners, we reached out to political and business groups, universities and other civic organizations.
Tonight's participants will be asking their own questions, selected by CNN, to cover a variety of topics. You may -- you may see them holding a piece of paper that has their question on it. It's a question they have come up with. It has not been edited in any way by CNN.
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.
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COOPER: It's good to see you. Thanks for being here.
We -- we got a lot of questions on tariffs. And I'm going to get to one from the audience in just a moment. But I do want to start off, President Trump just put a 90-day pause on a new round of sweeping tariffs. He's keeping --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Okay. Before we get to that --
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: -- because I know tariffs are on everybody's mind, I think we all want this to be a serious discussion about some of the most important issues facing America.
And as you indicated, I've been running all over the country. And what I hope we can do tonight is do something pretty radical. That is, tell the truth.
It's a radical idea here in Washington, D.C., and that is to really take a look together, all of us together, no matter what your political point of view may be about, what is, in fact, going on in this country today.
And as you indicated, I have been running all over the country. And I got to tell you that there is a lot of anxiety out there. There's a lot of fear.
People in the richest country in the history of the world are wondering why 60 percent of our people are living paycheck to paycheck.
All of you guys know what paycheck to paycheck is?
All right. You know, I grew up in a family that was living paycheck to paycheck. And one of the manifestations of living paycheck to paycheck is working class people in America now live six years shorter lives than the rich.
Anyone have an idea why that is?
Hungry, poverty and what else? Stress.
When you are living paycheck to paycheck and you're wondering whether you can pay the rent, whether you can provide get your kid to a doctor when you need to, that eats away at your mind and it eats away at your body, and you die younger.
And what I have seen, Anderson, all over this country is people living under incredible stress, wondering why in the richest country in the world, they can't afford health care, they can't afford child care, why the cost of housing is soaring.
And in the midst of all of that, while 60 percent of our people are living paycheck to paycheck, why is it that three people on top now own more wealth than the bottom half of American society? And you got some zillionaire named Mr. Musk going all over Washington, D.C. dismantling Social Security and the Veterans Administration.
So those are some of the issues on people's minds.
COOPER: We've got a lot of questions. We've got a lot of questions about that.
And talk about stress, there's obviously been a lot of stress just related to these tariffs and people's retirement accounts, if they're lucky enough to have money saved up for retirements.
He's -- the president is keeping a 10 percent tariff on most countries, 25 percent on some goods from Canada and Mexico, 125 percent now on China.
Has all of this chaos permanently damaged our economy, our reputation in the world?
SANDERS: Look, I live in Burlington, Vermont. So, you all (ph) come up and visit us sometimes. We're a great city, a great state.
I live 50 miles away from the Canadian border. Throughout the history of the United States and Canada, we have had a very warm, positive relations. They are our neighbors. They are our friends.
And right now, I got to tell you that in Canada, when you have a president of the United States who goes out of his way to insult the prime minister, he calls him governor. Oh, by the way, you're a Canadian. We're going to make you the 51st state. Canadians who I love. They're great people. They're not coming into Vermont anymore. They're coming into America. They're boycotting American goods, similar to our friends in Mexico and all over the world. These are allies. We fought World War II. We defeated Nazism fighting with our friends in UK and France throughout Europe. And now they're saying, what in God's name is going on with the United States of America?
So the idea that this nation, which all of us want to see is -- what a Ronald Reagan calls the city on the mountain.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Shining city on a hill.
SANDERS: City on a hill. Close. All right. I don't quote Reagan all that often. But you know, we want to be a model to the world. We want people to look at us and say, we want to be like the United States, not oh, God, United States. What are they doing?
COOPER: Let's get to our first question. This is Nate Gueltzau, legal administrative specialist, the Department of Justice from Burke, Virginia. He's a Republican. Nate, welcome.
NATE GUELTZAU, JUSTICE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE: Thank you. Senator Sanders, you have consistently opposed trade agreements like NAFTA and the Trans-Pacific Partnership, citing their detrimental effects on American workers. Recently, President Trump imposed broad reciprocal tariffs on numerous countries, leading to significant market disruptions and international backlash. How do you assess the effectiveness of such tariff strategies in protecting American jobs and what alternative measures would you advocate to ensure fair trade without escalating global trade tension?
SANDERS: Thanks a lot, Nate. And Nate is quite right. Not only did I vote against a Clinton inspired NAFTA and PNTR with China, I helped lead the effort against it. And I think you know why, what I saw and wanted to prevent was the decimation of communities all over this country where working people had decent jobs, often with unions in a factory. And what these trade agreements, in essence, said to Corporate America, hey, no problem, you can throw American workers out on the street. You can go to Mexico; you can go to China and hire people for pennies an hour.
And I thought that that was a horrible idea. It was a horrible idea. It resulted in the loss of thousands and thousands of factories in America, the loss of millions of jobs. So to answer Nate's question, look, what I think is, tariffs used selectively are a good idea if they're going to protect the American jobs, but to arbitrarily, out of nowhere, come up with a tariff that they can't even justify or explain to virtually every country on Earth is absolutely counterproductive.
COOPER: Those tariffs are aimed at part and the President talks about bringing manufacturing jobs to America. The White House talked about iPhones being made here in America. Some economists have said that it would cost thousands of extra dollars to buy an iPhone. Is that realistic?
SANDERS: I think probably -- I don't know the answer to that, but what I do know is the immediate harm is going to be very significant, and it is going to -- I was just in Target the other day of buying something, and I looked around there, virtually all of those products sold in stores like Target are going to see significant increases in prices if Trump gets his way with tariffs, that's going to hurt working people a whole lot.
COOPER: This is Marge Watchorn, a manager at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. She has worked with the federal government for 30 years. Thank you for your service.
SANDERS: Thanks.
COOPER: Marge is a Democrat from Ellicott City, Maryland. Marge.
MARGE WATCHORN, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID SERVICES EMPLOYEE: Senator, what would you say to federal employees who are concerned about the careless workforce cuts being effectuated by Elon Musk and DOGE.
SANDERS: I want to say two things about that. First of all, thank you and your colleagues for your years of service. The vast majority of federal employees are trying their best to do the jobs that have to be done to protect the American people, and I thank you all very much for that.
The idea that Mr. Musk goes around and with a chainsaw, that is his metaphor, a chainsaw, slashing jobs all over the place, telling people based on nothing that they have poor performance records, throwing them out into the street is outrageous, but I want to say something else above and beyond and by the way, I'm just on the floor a few hours ago, they have decided in their brilliance and I suspect this is a Musk initiative to lay off --they have a proposal to lay off 83,000 workers at the Veterans Administration. Got that?
So we made a commitment to the men and women who put their lives on the line that we were going to provide them with the best quality health care that we could and generally speaking, I know in my state, veterans are very proud of the health care they get it. River Junction Vermont, and that's true in many places in this country, but arbitrarily throwing 83,000 workers in the Veterans Administration, lowering the quality of care for our veterans, delaying the kind of -- the time in which they're going to get their benefits is a total outrage.
I want to add one point to that. I want everybody to think about this. Most people -- we have millions of federal employees. Most people are not federal employees. And I think many people are saying, wow, that's outrageous. I really feel for these federal employees thrown out on the street.
But I want you to think about this. If Musk can do this to federal employees, some of whom are in unions, some of whom work for years, what do you think he's going to be doing when artificial intelligence and robotics comes for your job? Guess what? The job you have today ain't going to be here in 10 or 15 years.
And you think Musk and his friends are saying, oh, my goodness, how do we protect American workers from the explosion in technology that we're seeing? They don't give a damn about you. If this is what they could do to federal employees, think about what they could do to people in the private sector.
So, bottom line there is, I am not a Luddite. I think technology has many positive things to say. But we have got to understand that new technology, A.I., robotics, has got to work for working people, not just for the billionaires and Mr. Musk.
COOPER: They -- there's a lot of talk about -- from the DOGE team about or from Elon Musk about waste, fraud, and abuse...
SANDERS: Yes.
COOPER: ... and what they're finding.
Have you seen much evidence of waste, fraud, and abuse? Because what they put on their wall of receipts, some of the top items, the biggest savings they allege to have implemented turned out to be mistakes or just lies.
SANDERS: Look, am I going to sit here and tell anybody in America that the United States government doesn't have a bureaucracy and there isn't waste? Of course there is.
And do we all -- you're Republican, conservative, progressive. I was mayor of the city of Burlington. One of the things I'm proud of is, we saved money. We made the city more efficient. People pay taxes,they want to make sure their money goes to where it's supposed to go. We can do better than we're doing right now.
COOPER: Is there a contribution Elon Musk could make to the federal government that you would be...
SANDERS: I don't -- I think his name -- I don't think he can do it.
But do I think, as a nation, as a Congress, as an administration, we got to sit down and say, how do we make -- break through the bureaucracy and make the government more efficient? Yes.
But I want to give you one example. And this worries me a whole lot. Trump gets up in his State of the Union, and all of you -- many of you have heard it, and he says, oh, my goodness, millions and millions of senior citizens, 150 years age, 200 years of age. Remember that? Oh, they're all getting Social Security benefits.
It's a lie, a total, absolute lie. I mean, according to the new guy who is going to become the Social Security administrator, Trump's own appointee, well over 99 percent of the benefits owed to people on Social Security were earned by the people on Social Security. It's just another lie.
So, a lot of what they're doing is -- am I going to tell you the Veterans Administration is the most efficient organization in the world? No, it's not. But you don't simply, with a chain saw, if you like, get rid of 83,000 people, then say, oh, it's not going to impact the quality of care that our veterans receive.
COOPER: I want you to meet Yasmine Chestnut, a student at Howard University and a Democrat.
Yasmine, welcome.
YASMINE CHESTNUT, COLLEGE STUDENT, HOWARD UNIVERSITY: Aside from Senator Booker, who broke the filibuster record, what are the elected Democratic officials proactively doing to ensure that Trump's agenda is not being completed, besides holding up signs during President Trump's congressional address and attending rallies?
SANDERS: Well, look, there are within the Democratic Caucus -- I am an independent, and I'm very proud of the fact that I'm the longest- serving independent in the history of the United States.
I caucus with the Democrats, and I always have. And within the Democratic Caucus in the House and the Senate, you have people with different political persuasions. There are some of us who, from day one, have understood that we have got to stand up and rally the American people to fight against this horrendous agenda, which, at the end of the day, is really significantly about giving massive tax breaks to the top 1 percent, all right?
So what Trump and the Republicans are saying is, hey, let's cut Medicaid by some $880 billion, and let's use those savings to give tax breaks to the very wealthiest people in this country.
So, to answer your question, Yasmine, there are some people, I think -- what I have been trying to do, what I think the best solution is, and I'm working with people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and others -- is to rally the American people to tell their members of Congress, guess what? You want to get reelected, you're not going to vote to give tax breaks to billionaires and cut programs that working-class people need.
COOPER: You have talked about concerns about a kleptocracy in the United States.
This morning, President Trump posted on social media that it was -- quote -- "a great time to buy stocks." A few hours later, he announced a pause on tariffs, which sent the markets skyrocketing.
Your colleague Senator Adam Schiff says Congress should investigate whether Trump and his inner circle engaged in insider trading. Do you agree?
SANDERS: I noticed that, and that's just one of another outrageous things. Imagine. do I have -- I don't know for a fact, but would I be surprised if there are people who hours before knew exactly what Trump was going to do in rescinding his tariff proposals, understanding that the stock market would soar and you make huge amounts of money? Well, I'd be shocked if we learned about that in the days to come. No, I would not.
COOPER: Does that announcement that he gave, gave cover to anybody who did buy stocks?
SANDERS: Well, what it does do, look, if you know, two hours earlier that the stock markets going to go, what are you going to do? You're going to buy a hell of a lot of stock. You're going to invest in the stock market. But it's not only that. I mean, you've got a president of the United States who is now working to give government cover to crypto and who now -- whose family is involved in crypto, makes money by selling coins, crypto coins.
Anybody can contribute, which is a direct line to the president. So, you know, I have serious problems about all that.
COOPER: This is Jazzmyne Townsend. She's currently D.C.'s Teacher of the Year and is one of the four finalists to be National Teacher of the Year. Congratulations.
SANDERS: Congratulations.
COOPER: She's a Democrat from Hyattsville, Maryland. Jazzmyne.
JAZZMYNE TOWNSEND, TEACHER: Senator, there's been a recent movement to minimize or erase the identities, experiences and histories of diverse individuals and communities. Given these efforts, what specific legislative measures, reforms, and actions can we as educators advocate for to promote the inclusion of diverse perspectives and histories within academic curriculum?
SANDERS: Look, I happen to believe that if we are going to do what we have to do, we have to understand history. We have to understand how we got to where we are today. I believe that very strongly, and there are some aspects of American history that we should be enormously proud of. There are some aspects, like in every other country on earth, we should not be proud of. But to try to push slavery or racism or homophobia or sexism under the rug and say they never happened is a disservice to the kids of this country.
All right. If we go forward, we've got to know our own history, our strengths, our weaknesses. So again, I think you have the right, I want educators in this country to be able to educate our kids about all aspects of American society, not just the positive aspects.
COOPER: Some of the specific examples are quite remarkable. The National Park Service, the Pentagon at times have scrubbed their Web sites of references to Harriet Tubman, Jackie Robinson, the Tuskegee Airmen. At one point, the DOD took down pictures of the Enola Gay because it had the word gay in it.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Yes. I mean, can you imagine how crazy that? You know, Enola Gay was the plane that dropped the A-bomb, and the word gay was there they erased it.
COOPER: Some of these moves have been reversed, but President Trump is also now going after the Smithsonian, accusing them of, quote, "divisive, race-centered ideology." Do you think the administration is trying to whitewash American history?
SANDERS: Of course they are. I mean, that's what I just mentioned right now.
Look, to be a strong nation, we have to be a well-educated nation. And to be a well-educated nation, we have to face the truth. And the truth is, as much as Americans, we should be extraordinarily proud of. You know, I've been -- when I give speeches, I now, I should have studied this harder when I was in the sixth grade. But you got people back in the 1790s who wrote the Constitution. You know what? That was an extraordinary document for the 1790s. Talk about separation of powers, which Trump is trying to do away with.
So there's so much in our history that we can be proud of. But like every other country, Anderson, there's a lot in our history that we should not be proud of, that we should learn from. You know, slavery and racism and sexism and homophobia. All right. That's nothing to be proud of. But we learn from those things. We overcome them.
So do I think what he is trying to do is to say, oh, all things were wonderful, we're always the greatest country on earth? Yes, that's the kind of direction he's going to.
COOPER: This is Elizabeth McInturff, an attorney here in D.C. She's a Democrat. Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH MCINTURFF, ATTORNEY: Thank you. President Trump has been publicly attacking private law firms, namely those that have historically represented the Democratic Party, Hillary Clinton, or have pursued lawsuits into him or investigations against him, including into January 6th.
What should Congress be doing to protect the legal profession's independence from political retaliation?
SANDERS: OK. Well, thank you for that question. And it's something I am very, very concerned about. So let's take a deep breath and try to see where we are. And I talked a little bit about economics. We're in an economy where working families are struggling while the very rich get richer. But what Trump is doing right now, and I would hope very much that my Republican colleagues and Republicans all over this country understand it.
You know, men and women put their lives on the line and they fought and sometimes died to defend democracy.
And democracy means you can disagree with me.
I'll give you one example what's going on in this country? You correct me if I'm wrong here, Anderson.
Trump -- I'm going to get to the law firms in a moment. Trump, in his movement toward authoritarianism -- authoritarianism, is attacking -- he's suing -- sued ABC. Sued Meta. Suing CBS.
He is now investigating PBS and NPR.
He has called this station illegal, correct?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN MODERATOR: I'm not sure about the illegal part, but I --
SANDERS: It is. Yes, and MSNBC illegal.
You're now, by the way, in Trump's world, you are in an illegal network.
What is all that about?
Now, getting back to the issue of law firms -- in America, what we have is a system of justice which says that you are entitled, basically entitled, constitutionally entitled to a legal defense. The idea that the president of the United States would threaten and harass attorneys and law firms that defended people he did not like is a major step forward toward authoritarianism.
And by the way, some of these big law firms, was it Paul Weiss was one of them? One of the biggest caved in.
We look to these law firms who have hundreds of well-paid lawyers to defend the Constitution, to defend the rule of law. And these guys, big law firms who often, by the way, defended Democrats, they were more interested in getting millions of dollars from their lobbying or whatever the hell they do in Washington, D.C., making huge amounts of money than standing tall and defending the Constitution.
They should be ashamed of themselves. And when Trump is out of office and others gain power, I hope we do not forget the cowardice, not only of these law firms, but by the way, you got major universities like Harvard and Columbia. These are some of the great universities in the world.
And yet, out of fear of losing their grants -- and I understand that. They've got a lot of money there -- they are willing to change their curriculum to bow down before Trump.
You add all of that together: the attack on the attack on law firms, you have Trump, for the first time in history, saying to a judge, oh, you ruled against me. I don't like the decision you rendered. We're going to impeach you.
That's not America. What our Constitution is about is the separation of power -- executive, judiciary, legislative, an independent judiciary. You don't threaten and intimidate judges because they rule against you. That is a movement toward authoritarianism.
And I would hope very much that not only Democrats and independents, but my Republican colleagues, we could disagree on all the issues. But for God's sake, let us not become an authoritarian country where one guy, one guy, assumes all of the power. That is not what people fought and died to create in this country.
COOPER: If somebody gets fired from their job at a federal agency in Washington, tries to get a law firm in Washington to represent them, what law firm is going to take that risk if they know there's a president who's willing to go after them and destroy their business with all their corporate clients?
SANDERS: You got it. I mean, it is --
COOP0ER: The universities -- I just want to put some numbers to what you're talking about, because the administration canceled $400 million of funding to Columbia, froze $790 million to Northwestern, $1 billion to Cornell. The universities say this is going to threaten lifesaving -- lifesaving studies, research on significant things, even significant to national defense.
Former President Obama said last week, the university should stand up even if they lose the money.
What do you think they should do?
SANDERS: So I just said --
COOPER: Stand up?
SANDERS: He's right.
Look, what is the function of higher education? What's the function of education in general? It's to try to pursue the truth. Now, your truth may be different from my truth. But that's what the function of a higher education is. So to give -- to tell their students, oh, by the way, we're going to cave in to an authoritarian-type president in order to protect our money is a gross mistake and disservice, and a very bad lesson, I think, to teach their students.
So what worries me -- I am seeing major media corporations like ABC, like Meta, are caving in and reaching settlements.
They have -- CBS offended the president because they did an interview with Kamala Harris that he didn't like.
COOPER: Really?
SANDERS: No kidding. You've done interviews with me that I didn't like. I didn't quite sue you, you know?
But that kind of intimidation of media, of judges, of universities, I hope the American people wake up and demand. Or whatever your point of view, I don't care what your point of view is on this or that issue. This is deeper than that.
This is whether or not we remain a free society where people -- what? If they're going to threaten to sue you? Are you going to have people on your show who are going to be in disagreement with Trump? Or do we now all bow down to our new king, President Trump? That is not the kind of nation that I think we want to become.
COOPER: We'll be right back with more from Senator Bernie Sanders.
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COOPER: And welcome back to the CNN live Town Hall with Senator Bernie Sanders.
I want you to meet Omar Lazo. He's a small business owner whose family established one of the first Salvadoran restaurants in Montgomery County, Maryland. He's also president of the local Latino Democratic club.
Omar, welcome.
OMAR LAZO, RESTAURANT OWNER: Thank you. Thank you, Anderson.
Senator Sanders, many Latino voters felt deeply disenfranchised during the last election, and that's part of why we saw such a noticeable shift from Democrat to Republican in our communities. There's a growing sense that the Democratic Party isn't truly showing up for us.
Immigrant families, documented and undocumented, are being told to trust the system, but we keep seeing the system fail us time and time again. And, worse, we're told to stay quiet, to not draw attention,because even the people telling us to believe in the system admit that they can't protect us if someone decides to use it against us.
How can we be expected to believe in that contradiction? What will the Democratic Party do concretely to show our communities that we're not just political pawns, but people worth fighting for?
SANDERS: Well, I think, a couple of things.
Number one, many Democrats believe, as I do, in the need for comprehensive immigration reform. Now, Mr. Trump has this brilliant idea that he wants to throw, I don't know, what, did he start off with 20 million people out of the country who are undocumented?
It's a brilliant idea which would cause a massive depression the day that he did it, because you wouldn't have anybody picking the crops, working in meatpacking plants, or building homes, or whatever. So what we need to do is to develop comprehensive immigration reform, which, among many other things, means that, if you're a little kid, and you came to this country at 1 or 2, we're going to give you a path toward citizenship.
We need guest-worker programs to legalize people who are in this country. The other thing that I would say in terms of the Latino community is, in fact, most Latinos are working-class people. And, like all Americans, they understand that our health care system is broken.
They understand that our wages for working-class people are too low. Just yesterday, we had a press conference to say that it's important to raise the $7.25 minimum wage to a living wage, in my view, $17 an hour.
So I think both issues. I think we have got to understand that we need comprehensive immigration reform, protect people who are in this country legally, who are lawfully -- who are who are in this country who are obeying the law, and give them a path toward citizenship.
That's, to me, very important.
COOPER: I want to ask you about some of the things we have seen happening with international students in this country.
The Trump administration has been revoking the visas of some international college students, even arresting some of them. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says no one has the right to a visa and says it's -- quote -- "lunacy" to let them come here and, in his words, be disruptive and undermine our universities.
Is that lunacy to you?
SANDERS: No, I think what Marco is saying is lunacy.
Some of you may have seen there was a young woman at Tufts University, I believe, Turkish, from Turkey. I think she's working on a Ph.D. She gets out. She's walking the street. Suddenly, an unmarked car comes. Guys in plainclothes grab her, throw her into an unmarked car and take her away to a detention center someplace, taking place in the United States of America in the state of Massachusetts.
COOPER: I believe she was in Vermont for a night and then is now in, I think, Louisiana.
SANDERS: Yes, that's where they're trying her.
But the idea that this could happen -- if you think that somebody is doing something illegal, there's a process that you go through. You don't throw them into an unmarked car.
And in terms of our relationship to the world, what students -- do we want international students to come to America? Of course we do. That enhances the learning experience for American students. And do you think that, all over the world, people say, geez, I don't want to go to America?
And, by the way, the crime of this young Turkish woman was that she wrote, I think, co-authored an op-ed being critical, as I am, of the horrific role that the Netanyahu government is playing in destroying the people in Gaza. I don't know that that is a crime.
She's entitled -- when you're in this country, you're entitled to freedom of speech. So all of that worries me very, very much.
COOPER: This is Grace Copps, a student at George -- Georgetown University. She's a Democrat originally from New York.
Grace.
GRACE COPPS, COLLEGE STUDENT, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Good evening, Senator Sanders.
My question is as follows. How can the United States go about repairing our relationship with allies like Canada after the second Trump administration?
SANDERS: Well, I think there's going to have to be acknowledgment that what we stand for as a country is not to be the bully of the world. Again, as I mentioned earlier, the idea that you insult the prime minister, that you tell Canada they're going to become our 51st state, that you tell the people in Denmark, oh, by the way, we're taking Greenland away from you, this is outrageous.
And what I would like us to be is a leader of the world based on our democracy as a model, based on our compassion, based on our work to fight climate change and help people all over the world, transfer away from fossil fuel to sustainable energy so that we can save the planet. So that's a little bit.
COOPER: Let me just ask you, in terms of relationships, if the end result or the result in the next 90 days of these tariffs that the president has put on is lowering of tariffs by other nations against the U.S., will it have been worth it if this brings them to the negotiating table?
SANDERS: Nothing is worth. -- look, the isolation. How is it worth it? What is worth it when you have people that have been our neighbors and allies and friends for almost 200 years in Canada now distrusting the United States? Our friends in the U.K. throughout Europe distrusting the United States?
We are becoming isolated from the rest of the world. So there's very little that I can see that would make it worth that.
COOPER: By the way, Grace's question was about what happens after Trump finishes his second term.
SANDERS: But we got a lot of repair work to do.
COOPER: But you know what he said about a third term. Do you do you think he's serious?
SANDERS: Yes, I do. I mean, I think you have somebody whose main function, what he wants is power and wealth for his oligarch friends. So nothing would surprise me about Trump.
COOPER: I want you to meet Jiyon Chatterjee. He's a student at Georgetown University, originally from New York. He's a Democrat.
Jiyon, welcome.
JIYON CHATTERJEE, COLLEGE STUDENT: Hi, Senator Sanders. Senator, for many years, your theory of power has rested on a critique of oligarchy. But in the past few years, around the world, the rise of populist right-wing leaders has seemed even more closely related to a loss of faith in institutions, loss of faith in the media, in public health authorities and judiciaries. And of course, as you've mentioned, in Democratic political bodies.
Is a singular focus on oligarchy sufficient to address the skepticism in democratic institutions that has driven many Americans and people around the world to the far right?
SANDERS: That's a great question. Thanks. Look --
COOPER: See? American universities.
SANDERS: There you go.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Here's what I think. I don't think that Donald Trump was elected president because he went around the country telling folks that he was going to give massive tax breaks to billionaires and cut Medicaid, or that he was going to eviscerate the Social Security administration or throw out 83,000 workers off of the Veterans Administration, or that he was going to cut Medicaid. That's not why he was elected president.
He was elected president, I think, because many, many millions of people are looking at the economic and political system in America and understand that it is not working for them. Right? You tell them to go out and vote and they go out and vote. And what happens? Over the last 52 years, the average American worker in inflation accounted for dollars is earning less than he or she did 52 years ago.
And there's been a massive transfer of wealth during that period to the top 1 percent. Oh, go out and vote. Go out and vote for this candidate or that candidate. Really? Who cares? What does it matter? The rich get richer. I am struggling. Richest country in the world, 60 percent living paycheck to paycheck.
Now tied to that, and this is an issue that we have to talk about tonight. And I'd love people's feelings about it. And we don't talk about it in media and we don't talk about it in Congress very much, is when you talk about people losing faith in the American political system, it's justified because you have a corrupt campaign finance system. So you get one vote and you get one vote, and Elon Musk can spend $270 million to help elect Donald Trump to become president, and then his reward is he becomes the most powerful person in government.
And it's not just Republicans. You've got Democratic billionaires heavily influencing what goes on in the Democratic Party. As I mentioned earlier, I feel very strongly that the United States government should not give another nickel to the Netanyahu extremist government that has killed 50,000 people in Gaza, wounded over 110,000 people.
All right. That's my view. You may disagree with me, but you got AIPAC telling any Democrat who stands up to Netanyahu, guess what, we're going to primary you. We're going to spend millions of dollars to defeat you.
So, does it sound like we're living in a democracy when Musk can intimidate any Republican, "You stand up to me. We're going to primary you. We're going to defeat you"?
We've got a corrupt campaign finance system influencing both political parties.
So, the average American says, yeah, I got one vote, and Musk can spend hundreds of millions of dollars. Is that a democracy? Why should I vote?
And then Trump comes along and says, the whole system is broken. And I'm going to -- I'm going to annihilate the whole system.
Well, the system is broken. Our healthcare system is broken -- no question about it. Our childcare system is broken. Our housing system is broken. Our campaign finance system is broken.
Both political parties are dominated by big money interests. So, people have a right to be angry.
But our answer is to improve the situation, to create a vibrant democracy. To get big money out of the political process is an enormously important thing.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN MODERATOR: We'll be right back with more from Senator Bernie Sanders.
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COOPER: And welcome back to our live CNN town hall.
We're back with Senator Bernie Sanders.
I want to introduce Grace Thomas. She's a local civil rights attorney. She's a Democrat.
Grace?
GRACE THOMAS, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: They/them pronouns, actually. Thank you.
COOPER: Oh.
THOMAS: Good evening, Senator Sanders.
Polling and turnout data indicate that men of all racial demographics are turning away from the Democratic Party. But of course, white men, in particular, do not feel that the DNC's messaging targets them in the issues that they care about.
Should progressive campaigns craft policies and messaging to better- encapsulate these voters? And if the answer is yes, how do they do so without abandoning marginalized voters of color and gender?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): OK. Thank you for the question, Grace.
Look, this is, it is no great secret that in America, people have strongly different points of view, right? On abortion, for example, I believe very much that women have a right to control their own bodies. People disagree with me. I believe that we've got to combat homophobia. I believe in gay marriage. My state helped led way on that. Not everybody agrees with me. I believe that we got to end all forms of bigotry, et cetera, et cetera. Not everybody agrees with me.
But you know what, Grace? On many economic issues, there is widespread agreement. And the failure of the Democratic Party, in my view, has been, they have not been aggressive in standing up to powerful corporate interests, in laying out an agenda, and implementing an agenda that speaks to the needs of the working-class.
All right, I'm going to ask you guys a question. He's asking me questions all night. I'm going to ask you a question. All right.
Raise your hand if you think that the American health care system is working.
Raise your hand if you think the American health care system is not working.
All right, let me rephrase the question. (LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Raise your hand if you think the American health care system is working well.
Anderson, how many people are raising their hands?
COOPER: None.
SANDERS: Raise your hand if you think the American health care system is broken. Raise your hand.
COOPER: Majority. Everyone.
SANDERS: Not a majority. Reaching (ph) anyone.
COOPER: Everyone, pretty much.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: And that is--
COOPER: I couldn't see behind that guy, but.
SANDERS: And that is -- all right. Question again. How many nations, wealthy nations in the world, do not guarantee health care to all people as the human right? Anybody know the answer?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
SANDERS: Which country?
AUDIENCE: United States.
SANDERS: No, you're not going to hear much about that on corporate television. You're not going to hear much about that in the United States Congress.
We are the only major country on Earth that doesn't guarantee health care to all people. 85 million of us are uninsured or under-insured. 60,000 die each year because we can't get to a doctor on time. That's the bad news.
You know what the good news is? The insurance companies are making tens of billions of dollars every year, denying you coverage. The drug companies charge us the highest prices of the world for prescription drugs.
So how does it happen that in the wealthiest country in the history of the world, we're spending twice as much per capita as the people in other countries, and yet we have one of the worst outcomes, health care outcomes of any country on Earth? And it gets back to money in politics and the domination of big money, in this case, insurance companies, drug companies, over the Republican and Democratic members (ph).
COOPER: I want to try to get some more of our audience questions. Joel--
SANDERS: I know you do.
COOPER: I know.
SANDERS: But I want to talk about--
COOPER: I know.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: No, I want to -- you know, sometimes these issues, about health care, about income and wealth inequality, are not talked about in the corporate media, and it's time that we did talk about them.
That's why the question a moment ago, why are people losing faith in the American system? We don't talk about it on CNN. We don't talk about it in Congress. It's because they understand that a handful of billionaires exert enormous influence. And that has got to change.
So when I'm running around the country, with Alexandria and other people, what we are trying to do is demand that working-class people begin to stand up and fight for their rights.
There is no reason we should be the only major country not to have health care, not to have paid family and medical leave, et cetera, et cetera, why we have the highest rate of childhood poverty almost any major country, 22 percent of our seniors living up $15,000 a year. Anybody here think that makes sense?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SANDERS: All right, it doesn't. Like, you got to get CNN to talk about these issues. You got to get your members of Congress to talk about these issues.
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COOPER: We're literally talking about it right now.
SANDERS: Yes, but I'm forcing you to talk about it, Anderson.
COOPER: This is Joel -- we invited you. This is Joel Pritikin. He's a student at American University, originally from Venice, California. He's President of the College Republicans. Joel.
SANDERS: Hey, Joel.
JOEL PRITIKIN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN UNIV. COLLEGE REPUBLICANS: Hi, Bernie. I wanted to give you kind of a softball question. Who on the other side have you worked the best with, as a senator?
SANDERS: I've worked with a couple of people. And it's funny. I'll give you an example.
Rand Paul is kind of a maverick on the Republican side. But Rand worries very much about authoritarianism. And so he and I have worked on some of those issues.
Mike Lee and I have worked on trying to make sure that Congress, not the President, has the power to declare to -- the constitutional power to declare war. I have worked with Roger Marshall from Kansas on trying to expand community health centers.
So, there are Republicans that I admire and work with. We disagree on a whole lot of issues, but we do try on occasion to come together for the American people.
COOPER: This is Danny Steele. He's the co-president of Howard University College Democrats, currently interning on Capitol Hill, originally from Southeastern Massachusetts.
Danny, welcome.
SANDERS: Hey, Danny.
DANNY STEELE, CO-PRESIDENT, HOWARD UNIVERSITY COLLEGE DEMOCRATS: Senator Sanders, considering the resurgence of extremist ideologies and political polarization today, how does your family's experience during the Holocaust influenced your approach to combating these contemporary challenges?
SANDERS: Thank you very much for that question.
Nobody knows what makes us tick, right? Why are we the people that we are all? Who knows? But I think, when I think back on my life and my childhood, there were two factors that influenced the politics that I have today, Anderson.
One of them is that I grew up in a working-class home. We lived in a rent-controlled apartment, and lack of money. We weren't poor. We always had enough to eat and all that, but we struggled, like so many families. And I have never forgotten that. So that's one factor in my life.
The other factor is, I can remember as a kid growing up in Brooklyn, New York, walking through the Kings Highway neighborhood and seeing people with tattoos on their arms. And these are people who were in concentration camps, Jewish people -- it was a Jewish neighborhood -- people in concentration camps.
And I read the books and saw the picture books. It broke my heart as a Jewish kid to know that six million people were slaughtered by some lunatic for big lies and horrible conspiracy theories that people, desperate people, bought into.
So, as a young person, I became aware of what racism, whether it was racism against Jewish people or black people or Latino people, gay people. It's not what this country should be about. And it could have horrific -- well, it has had. We know what slavery is done. We know what the Holocaust is done.
And our job is to do what Dr. King talked about. We judge people not by the color of their skin or their religion, but who they are as human beings. And we have got to fight this extremist idea to divide us up, somebody's gay and somebody's this and somebody's that, and you were born someplace else.
We are all human beings. And we all have the same needs, that we all want the best for our kids, want kids to get a good education and good health care, to breathe clean air, not to deal with climate change and so forth. We have got to reinforce the belief that we are a common worldwide humanity. We don't have to hate China. We don't have to hate other people.
Let's figure out a way to work together. And, by the way, if we don't figure that out globally, climate change is going to destroy this planet. Climate change is not an American issue. It's not a Chinese issue. It's a global issue. We have got to work together. The scientists tell us more pandemics may likely come. We can't combat those just in America. We have got to work globally.
So the goal has got to be is to break down these -- these barriers that separate us as human beings, come together as Americans and come together globally as human beings.
COOPER: I interviewed a 93-year-old Auschwitz survivor. Her name is Irene Weiss. She lives not far from here. She's still alive. Her family was, most of them, all killed.
The night before she and her family were sent to Auschwitz, her whole village, all the Jews were sent to Auschwitz, her neighbors came to her door. Her high school principal came to her door and demanded her family's possessions, because they knew they were being sent to the concentration -- it wasn't strangers who came to her door.
It was her neighbors and her high school principal. I have never forgotten...
(CROSSTALK)
SANDERS: Look, I -- horrible.
I went back to the town in Poland. My wife and I went back there -- and it was 10, 15 years ago -- with my brother and his wife, small town, very poor. People then, when my father was growing up, were very poor. And antisemitism was rampant.
And they took us -- the mayor, who was very kind, very nice guy in that town, took us to a mound. It's like a small hill. And that was where the Nazis dumped hundreds and hundreds of Jewish people who they had killed.
So, look, when we talk about our own history of slavery and all that, you got a global history, a world history. This is the year 2025, and we have got to do the best we can to eliminate war. I mean, I worry about what's going on in Ukraine, what's going on in Gaza, all over the world.
We have got to deal with climate change. And the way to do that is not to expel foreign students from American universities, to figure out a way that we -- to increase student exchanges, international exchanges. Bottom line, either we are one world, one people, or we're not.
COOPER: We will have more from Senator Bernie Sanders in a moment.
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COOPER: And welcome back to our CNN town hall with Senator Bernie Sanders. We have time for another question. This is Sterling McDowell, a student at Georgetown University, originally from Sulfur Springs, Texas. She's a Democrat.
Sterling, welcome.
STERLING MCDOWELL, COLLEGE STUDENT: Senator, what advice do you have for young organizers and students like me who feel disillusioned by electoral politics? As a person who grew up in rural Texas, I believe in the power of grassroots campaigns and funding. In your point of view, what is the most effective way for young people to organize in 2025?
SANDERS: Well, first of all, it is terribly important that young people understand what the stakes are. If we don't change the economy around your generation may well have a lower standard of living than your parents. You're going to have to deal with the ravages of climate change and an economy that is not working for you.
So young people have got to understand that the electoral way is one important way that they can make change.
What does that mean? It means get involve in grassroots organizing. That means holding your member of Congress accountable. You have the power to say to him or her, guess what, we're doing a town meeting, and we want to make sure that you're not going to vote for tax breaks for the rich and cut Medicaid. And if you don't come, we're holding that meeting anyhow. And if you really don't come and you vote the wrong way, guess what, we are going to defeat you.
My experience is that while there are divisions in this country, absolutely the overwhelming majority of people want to create an America where we have an economy and a government that works for all. I don't care if you're a conservative Republican or a progressive like I am. Most people don't think it's appropriate that so few people have so much economic and political power.
Most people do not think that it is right that we give tax breaks to billionaires and lay off 83,000 workers at the Veterans Administration, or that we decimate the Social Security Administration. So what I would say to young people and all people, go outside your zone of comfort. It's easy to talk to people who agree with you every day, but you're going to have to listen to other people who may disagree with you.
Maybe they disagree with you on abortion or gay rights or whatever it may be. Sit down and talk to them. I've been to every state in this country, and what inspires me is the knowledge that our people, by and large, are decent human beings who want the best for their kids. And our job is to bring people together around an agenda that works for all of us, and to bring people together to oppose this horrific drift toward oligarchy and authoritarianism that we are seeing right now.
COOPER: Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you very much.
SANDERS: Thank you all.
COOPER: Appreciate it.
(APPLAUSE)
COOPER: And thank you for our audience right here in the studio. Be sure to join us tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. Eastern for "AMERICA ASKS CONGRESS, A CNN TOWNHALL." It's anchored by Jake Tapper and Kaitlan Collins. They'll be joined by four swing district representatives who will take questions from their constituents.
"NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
Senator, thank you.
SANDERS: Thank you.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
