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CNN Live Event/Special
Soon: Pope Francis' Funeral Mass At The Vatican; Now: Crowds Gather For Pope Francis' Funeral Mass; World Leaders And Monarchs Gather For Pope's Funeral. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired April 26, 2025 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And a live look over Vatican City, St. Peter's Square, where hundreds of thousands are preparing to say a final goodbye to Pope Francis. Hello, and welcome to our viewers across the United States and around the world. I'm Anderson Cooper, live from just outside of St. Peter's Basilica on the square, on this historic and moving day, the funeral of Pope Francis.
Behind me, St. Peter's Basilica where Pope Francis' body is now lying ready for the funeral. In less than an hour, his coffin will be carried out of the Basilica and into the square where a funeral mass will be held. Millions of people around the world will be watching this moment to honor a man who spent his life and his papacy reaching out to marginalized communities. Right now, tens of thousands of people, young and old, are gathering here in St. Peter's Square and in surrounding streets to be part of this extraordinary moment.
St. Peter's is also filled with members of international press corps from all around the world, members of the church, royalty, more than 50 distinguished world leaders, including U.S. President Donald Trump, First Lady Melania Trump, former President Joe Biden, former First Lady Jill Biden. Melania Trump and the Bidens are Catholics. French President Emmanuel Macron and British Prime Minister Keir Starmer expected to be here along with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. 10 monarchies will also be represented at the funeral, including the United Kingdom. Prince William will be here in place of his father, King Charles.
Shortly, we'll see the Pope's coffin carried out of St. Peter's Basilica and into the square for the funeral mass. After mass, in a break from tradition, Pope Francis' body will be taken in a procession out of Vatican City and into Rome. The procession will cross the Tiber River and travel past the Castel Sant'Angelo, continuing through the heart of Rome, as tens of thousands of people line the streets. Later, his coffin will pass by the Roman Forum and the Colosseum, before taking a sharp turn and arriving to the Pope's final resting place, the beautiful Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore. The Basilica is known to be a place that was very special to the pontiff. Pope Francis will be the first Pope in more than 120 years not buried inside St. Peter's Basilica. CNN's Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward is with me on
this glorious morning in Vatican City, and CNN Vatican Correspondent Christopher Lamb joins us as well, and I want to start with both of you.
Clarissa, you have been out in these crowds. We have been here now for hours watching the tens of thousands of people come in. It is an extraordinary mix of people from all over the world.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And you know what's so extraordinary, Anderson? How young the people are. This is a Pope who managed to capture the imagination of young people. I was talking to a couple of girls in their late teens who had sleeping bags, who had been here since four in the morning, others arriving at two in the morning, I should add.
COOPER: And I should point out, it's not young people who are glumly here with their parents.
WARD: No.
COOPER: It's young people who are here in large groups of other young people. And there is an excitement to be here.
WARD: There is an excitement. There is a sense of witnessing history, and there is a deep sense of wanting to pay tribute to a truly extraordinary Pope.
COOPER: And Christopher Lamb, I mean, you have covered this Pope. You must have seen these kind of crowds in a lot of places Pope Francis went.
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Oh yes, and particularly young people. In Portugal, at World Youth Day a couple of years ago, there were huge numbers there. Pope Francis was able to connect with people, particularly young people. You always find the right words at the right moment. He also had a great sense of humor and ability to not take himself too seriously. And also, I remember the trip, the last big trip he did in 2024 to the Far East. He went to the furthest places that a Pope had ever gone, to Papua New Guinea and East Timor, for a mass that was one of the biggest gatherings in the country. Half the country were there. So, it's not surprising that there are big numbers here.
COOPER: Let's talk about what our viewers can expect to see in the next hour or two. The funeral mass begins in about an hour.
LAMB: That's right, and it's going to start with the procession of the bishops and the cardinals, and we already see some of them filing out. There is obviously huge numbers.
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COOPER: They'll be filing out from St. Peter's.
LAMB: They're filing out from St. Peter's, and it's done in a sort of last shall be first order, so that the most junior come out first and then right at the end, the more senior cardinals, and finally, Cardinal Battista Re, the Dean of the College of Cardinals, will be celebrating the mass. We're also going to have a moment where Pope Francis' coffin is going to be brought out by pole bearers in front of the altar and a Book of the Gospels will be placed on the coffin. It's a very powerful symbol, because, of course, the Gospels are the account of the life of Jesus Christ and the teachings which Pope Francis sought to follow.
COOPER: The coffin has been sealed, and I just want to show our viewers some of what we saw yesterday that took place inside St. Peter's Basilica. As you know, Pope Francis has been lying in state for three days. All of us were able to go in with everybody else. This was the ceiling of his casket. Let's just listen.
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COOPER: Several possessions were placed inside the coffin, including Rogito, which is a brief summary of the Pope's life. It's written out, and it's quite long, but I just want to read you a small excerpt. It said, he was a simple and much loved pastor in his Archdiocese, traveling everywhere, even by subway and bus. He lived in an apartment and prepared his own dinner because he felt himself one of the people. Then, as you see, the casket was closed and sealed.
It's an extraordinary thing. I love when I read that, just how sort of the very simple description of this man who wanted to live a very simple life.
WARD: And I think it's so interesting because the Pope had made and prepared all these accommodations in advance of his death to simplify this whole process. For example, previous popes have been buried in three coffins, nested with each other -- within each other. This Pope buried in a single wooden coffin with a zinc lining. But, at the same time, being here today, Anderson, despite these efforts to simplify, despite this strong message, this powerful message of humility, you can see this is going to be an extraordinary, sumptuous display of pageantry that is centuries old.
LAMB: Yes. I mean, it's going to follow the established pattern of a Catholic mass with, of course, the elements for a deceased Pope. And we're going to see readings that reflect the Catholic understanding, the belief of the ministry of the Pope, which Catholics believe goes right back to the scriptures where St. Peter being the first Pope. We're going to see, I think, some very moving moments when people reflect, when Cardinal Re reflects on Pope Francis' life.
And of course, I think what is truly going to be really historic is that procession from St. Peter's to the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore.
COOPER: Because -- I mean, in our lifetime, we have never seen a Pope being -- who has died, being moved from St. Peter's Basilica outside of Vatican City, to be buried outside of Vatican City, and have this processional through the streets of Rome --
LAMB: Yes.
COOPER: -- and have it be televised, and it has never been seen before.
LAMB: Exactly, but also powerfully symbolic, because Pope Francis' final journey will be to leave the Vatican. As Pope, he liked to leave the Vatican. He was a missionary Pope in many ways, and he was also a Pope who didn't like to be controlled or scripted by the Vatican. He was a Pope who always wanted to go out to the peripheries and the margin. So, I think that decision by him leaves a very powerful message to be buried in Santa Maria Maggiore.
COOPER: I want to check in with our Ben Wedeman, who is in the crowd, as we have been all morning long, and there is such excitement there. Ben, talk about what you are seeing, what you are hearing from the people around you.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, earlier, Anderson, you and Clarissa were talking about the young people who have come out. And just look at this. This is crowds of young Italian students. We spoke to some of them from southern Italy. They said that they had spent the night sleeping in sleeping bags in a church, and had come here very early to get a good crowd.
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What an appeal Pope Francis had to the young people, but also to others.
We're joined by two people here. Why is it important for you to be here today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we come to pay respects to the late Pope, but also to look ahead to the future, the future of the Catholic Church, and it's so amazing to see all these people here from all nations at a time when we're facing so much conflict in the world, and everybody is here getting on, making room for everybody else to celebrate and mark this incredible occasion.
WEDEMAN: And Gene (ph), why was Pope Francis important?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not especially religious, but he seems to have been such a humble person who looked after the poor and actually lived for Christian beliefs. He didn't go in for all the pomp and circumstance. He wants a humble -- he wanted a humble funeral. He wanted his last resting place to be in a more humble place than here. And I think that's why we're here to celebrate him today.
WEDEMAN: All right. Thank you very much. Back to you, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Ben, we'll be checking with you throughout the crowd.
I just want to quickly bring in Father Edward Beck, a Roman Catholic priest and author as well. Father Beck, what are your thoughts on what we are about to witness on this glorious morning here in Vatican City? REV. EDWARD BECK, ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST, & CNN RELIGION CONTRIBUTOR:
Well, it was interesting to me what Clarissa was saying. Yes. This is going to be a little simpler than usual, because Pope Francis has requested that. However, what we will see will be extraordinary, because this rite of Christian burial, especially for a Pope, with all that are assembled, you can't help but include the pageantry that we are going to see. And yet, what we're going to see is the testimony of a man who lived a life that was truly remarkable. And I think probably in his homily, Cardinal Battista Re will talk about that.
But, I think to see all of these people assembled for this man, and especially the young people, as you mentioned, now, in fairness, the young people also have traveled there because it was supposed to be the canonization of Carlo Acutis, and that got canceled because of, of course, the death of the Pope. So, they really won the lottery by being able to be in Rome, and now get to witness something even more extraordinary, and then eventually we'll have the canonization of Carlos.
But, to see all of the varied ethnic groups and all of the various religions, and we'll see the Eastern European religions, the Orthodox, the Ukrainian religions, represented, this is a Pope who reached out to all of those different faith traditions. The prayers of the faithful that we will hear will be in so many different languages, because this is a Pope that went globally to far-flung countries around the globe to visit them, and that will be included in this liturgy. So, there will be hallmarks of the Pope's character in this liturgy, but it will also be rather extraordinary when you see the pageantry that will be involved in it.
COOPER: Yeah, centuries old, and of course, the Pope visited many countries that other popes had never been to before. The funeral from Pope Francis will begin in less than an hour.
Coming up, we'll take a look at the Pope's missions all throughout the world, including Africa, and talk with one of the priests who worked with him to make that happen, and more from the people assembled here right now. We'll be right back.
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COOPER: And welcome back to Vatican City on this extraordinary moment. You're going to be witnessing something truly historic and visually just stunning and moving. You're looking live at St. Peter's Square, where world leaders are starting to arrive, taking their seats ahead of the funeral mass of Pope Francis. Behind them, tens of thousands of people of all ages who are packed into the square to be part of this historic occasion. But, it's not just Vatican City where mourners are expected to turn out today, in the streets of Rome, in Buenos Aires, where Pope Francis was born and raised and carried out most of his ministry. He a priest, a bishop, a cardinal, where we have seen an outpouring of emotion. CNN Senior Correspondent David Culver joins us now live from Buenos
Aires. David, you've been in Argentina now for days, talking to the people who knew him, people who loved him. What have you been witnessing?
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: You're going to hear the sounds of some of those folks, Anderson. As we're walking and talking here, you can actually hear some of the drumming that's going on. There is a youth group that's in the arches behind me there. This is the Plaza de Mayo, and it's torrential rain here this morning, but it's starting to trail off, and they expect the Plaza de Mayo to be filled with thousands, potentially, of people, and this is a significant area, in part because of what's behind me here, the cathedral.
So, the main event here isn't necessarily the funeral mass, though they're hoping to be able to livestream the funeral mass. It's going to be the mass that's going to be held at the cathedral, and then they've got large screens set up.
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They've got security barricades, everything prepared for what will be a gathering of folks from this city, from the outside provinces, are going to be brought in to partake in what is going to be a celebration of one of their own, Pope Francis, before he was Pope Francis, of course. I mean, he wrote about Argentina, even though he never was able to come back and visit as Pope, in his book "Hope". I mean, he said this is a place that he continues to feel the same great, profound love. He says it's the people that he prayed for every single day, the people that formed him, that trained him, that offered him to others, my people, he would call the folks here.
And there -- I thought there might be maybe some folks who would say, oh, they were hopeful that he would come back, that he would maybe get a chance to visit as pontiff. And yet, that didn't happen. But, people don't seem resentful.
COOPER: Yeah.
CULVER: And I found that striking, because most of those folks you find in the villas (ph), we spent some time there over the past few days, the villas are these very simple, humble neighborhoods, some say dangerous at times, but they have lower resources, and yet the folks there have a deep faith, and they said he was still present in their lives, and they spoke about him so calmly and casually, as though he was a dear friend, because he was there so often as Cardinal Archbishop here. He spent from 1998 to 2013 here at the seat of the Archdiocese, the cathedral, and you can see all around they've actually even got some Vatican flags that they have put out now. You're starting to hear more of the drumming around me.
But, it's notable that when he was here as Archbishop --
COOPER: Yeah. CULVER: -- he thought he'd come back when he went to the Conclave in 2013. He even bought a return ticket for March 23rd. Of course, March 13th of 2013 was the day that he became pontiff. And in this moment, it seems to be a place that he is obviously going to be remembered and loved, and it's going to play out throughout the day.
COOPER: Yeah. David Culver, thanks very much, from Buenos Aires.
Joining me now is Father Orobator. He is the Dean of the Jesuit School of Theology of Santa Clara University in California. Father, thank you so much for being with us on this morning. You met with Pope Francis a number of times, including the remarkable meeting in war-ravaged South Sudan. I'm wondering what you are reflecting on, on this morning.
REV. AGBONKHIANMEGHE E. OROBATOR, S.J., DEAN, JESUIT SCHOOL OF THEOLOGY, SANTA CLARA UNIVERSITY: Well, I'm reflecting on just the experience in 2019 when he brought the leaders of South Sudan, who were really a (inaudible) throat trying to kill one another, and brought them to his residence for a retreat, for a time of prayer, of listening and dialog. And you could see that, as they came into that presence, gradually, just the tension, the (inaudible) knees just evaporated in the presence of Pope Francis, and he could see that he was deeply committed to this cause. And for two and a half days, he opened his home, his private chapel, his dining room to these leaders from South Sudan to try to encourage them to make peace.
And for me, I'm just -- I remain impacted by just the very strong symbolism that happened at the end of that retreat, when everybody gathered, Francis went off script. This script we had for him was that he would give an exhortation to the people who were gathered for the retreat, hand out a Bible, and before we knew it, he broke off script, shuffled with difficulty to each one of the leaders, knelt down at their feet, bent over and kissed each one of them, kissed their feet. And he could tell just the reaction from the leaders.
The President, Salva Kiir, he was literally trembling. His arch rival, Riek Machar, tried to prevent the Pope from doing this, and Francis said, allow me, allow me, and the other Vice President, Rebecca, she was bathed in tears just at this moment, and when Pope Francis got up, breathing with lot of effort, the first thing that the President said, Salva Kiir, was, I promise you, we will make peace. And at that moment, he could tell the impact that Francis had in making the world a better place and how he did it with so much humility.
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For me, I would never forget that moment.
COOPER: Is today a sad day for you, or given your faith, given the -- what Francis said about what he believes comes next, a new beginning, he called it, is this a sad day?
OROBATOR, S.J.: It is a sad day. It's a mix of emotions. I feel particularly personally saddened by his loss, because he was a gift to humanity. He was a man who had a big heart for the world, who felt the pain of the world, who felt the joy of the world, who felt the sorrow and the hurt of the world. And he carried that with him. Whether it was about migrants or refugees, victims of war, he carried it in his heart. And I feel sad. It's a loss for us, because he was a gift to humanity. A humble man.
I can see you showing some photos of our time at the Vatican. He is looking at me and I'm looking at him. And when you see that photo, it was really about him, the humility, because I had just said to him --
COOPER: Yeah.
OROBATOR, S.J.: -- we had this retreat, and we are happy that you will come to us. And he is looking at me, and I'm looking at him, and I'm saying, what -- did I say something wrong? And then Francis says, may I go on? He is asking me permission to speak. It was the humility of the man, and I feel deeply, deeply saddened by his loss. He is a gift to humanity.
COOPER: Yeah. Well, Father, thank you so much for being with us on this morning. There is so much we will be watching in the next hour and the hours ahead. I appreciate you being with us.
Just in, we're seeing our first images of former President Biden arriving at the funeral along with former first lady Jill Biden. President Biden was only the second Catholic President in the U.S. after John F. Kennedy. In just minutes, the coffin of Pope Francis will be carried out of St. Peter's Basilica into the square when the funeral mass will begin. Coming up, we'll take a look at other leaders from around the world who traveled to Vatican City to be part of the final moments to celebrate the life of Pope Francis.
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COOPER: And we are back for CNN's special coverage of the funeral of Pope Francis. We are just minutes away from seeing the coffin of St. Francis -- of Pope Francis being brought out into St. Peter's Square. There is a live shot inside the Basilica, and we're also seeing an increasing number of world leaders, monarchs and others, arriving here. We saw former President Biden, former first lady Jill Biden, a moment ago.
A lot to get you on here with CNN's Clarissa Ward and Senior Vatican Correspondent Christopher Lamb.
Christopher, you were pointing out, I mean, it was less than a week ago that you saw -- you were here in this square with Pope Francis a lot.
LAMB: Yes. I was standing just there. Although it was less than a week ago, it feels a lot longer, but I was there in the square to witness the Pope's last appearance amongst the people in the square, and it was clear at that point that he wasn't well. He wasn't able to engage with people, but he wanted to push himself right to the end to be able to meet with the people one last time. It was extraordinary, and the reaction from the crowd was electric when he came out.
COOPER: And we know now, Clarissa, he said to his nurse, who has been with him for years, who he relied on, trusted, he said, I want to go to the square. Do you think I can do it?
WARD: Do you think I can manage it? I think it was so important for him to have one more opportunity to really connect with those crowds who were waiting, who were watching, who were already elated just to hear him deliver the blessing. He didn't have enough strength to read out the full Urbi et Orbi, but he did deliver the blessing at the beginning of it, and then surprised the crowd with this extraordinary moving around in the popemobile. He had been told, because clearly immunocompromised, not to engage at close quarters with people. He didn't care. He stopped. He blessed. He took time.
And I think many people will speculate that he understood that these would be among his final moments, and he really wanted to make that happen.
COOPER: And he said to his nurse, thank you for helping me --
LAMB: Yeah.
COOPER: -- return to the square.
LAMB: I mean, covering the Pope close there, I used to watch him during the big liturgies in the Vatican, and sometimes he would look like he was almost falling asleep. He was really sometimes looking like he was a bit fed up. But, when he got into the square with the people, he would come alive. He was always amongst the people that he was most animated. So, it was really fitting that he did that one last time.
COOPER: There is former President Biden, former first lady Jill Biden as well.
LAMB: Meloni.
COOPER: What are we going to see, Christopher, when the ceremony begins?
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LAMB: So, in a few minutes, we're going to see the coffin of Pope Francis brought out into the square. They'll be brought by the Gentleman of His Holiness, the sort of officials who work in the papal apartments, and then the procession of bishops and cardinals, of course, many cardinals here in Rome, with the Conclave approaching, they're going to process out in order of seniority to the most junior first and then the most senior cardinals, and the last person will be the presider of the mass, Celebrite (ph) Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, the Dean of the College of Cardinals. Those who've watched Conclave, the movie, will know the Dean plays an important role in these papal transition and funeral moments.
COOPER: There is a helicopter circling over the head. WARD: A lot of helicopters, and that's because we're talking about an extraordinary amount of dignitaries, of monarchs. I believe it is 12 reigning monarchs. Prince William stepping in for King Charles. There are 55 heads of state. There are delegations from 130 different countries, and 4,000 international journalists have been accredited for this event. You can just imagine the logistics, the security of trying to organize all of that.
And yet, I have to say, I think we've all found, it feels incredibly orderly.
COOPER: It does.
WARD: It feels incredibly calm. And I think everybody here understands it doesn't matter if you're a king or a queen or a prince or a President, this is about taking a moment to really witness history and pay tribute to an extraordinary leader.
LAMB: And papal funerals bring together heads of state and world is like no other event.
COOPER: And religious leaders from many different faiths.
LAMB: Absolutely. I mean, Francis was a Pope, not just for Catholics. He built bridges with the Muslim world. He was the first Pope to go to Iraq. The first Pope to go to the Arabian Peninsula.
COOPER: President Trump inside of St. Peter's Basilica, with first lady Melania Trump, in front of the coffin of Pope Francis. Melania Trump, we should point out, is Catholic, as were the Bidens.
LAMB: Yes. Melania Trump, I remember when she visited with Pope -- sorry, when she visited Pope Francis with President Trump, Pope Francis made a little sort of jokey remark to President Trump in front of Melania saying, what are you feeding him? And it sounded like pizza, but actually he was saying potica, which is a Slovenian cake. So, he was -- Pope Francis was quite warm to Melania Trump when President Trump visited that time.
COOPER: But, you were saying about --
LAMB: Yeah.
COOPER: -- religious leaders from all over, that it's not just Roman Catholic religious leaders.
LAMB: That's right. I met the Imam last night. He has traveled from the U.S. to be here, who knew Pope Francis in Argentina. Francis had a great connection with other -- leaders of other faiths, particularly Muslim leaders. He signed a famous document called the Human Fraternity Document with the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar in the UAE. That was a historic moment. He wanted religious faith to collaborate for peace. He was really a kind of religious statesman, in that sense. He believed in the power of religions working together for a better world. And I think that is being recognized here at the funeral with the leaders of other faiths and Imams to being here to pay their respect to Francis.
COOPER: We saw this extraordinary procession bringing Pope Francis from his residence, the Casa Santa Marta, which is about a 10-minute walk or so away from here. The other day, you and I were together watching that live. It was remarkable to see this procession through the streets of Vatican City.
LAMB: It was amazing. I mean, really, has that ever been seen before? I don't think so, because no Pope has lived in Santa Marta and then being taken through St. Peter's in that way. It was incredibly --
COOPER: Italy's President is now inside the basilica in front of Pope Francis' casket. And this is the first day that the basilica has not been open to the public. The last three days it has been open to the public, all of us were -- had the opportunity to walk in with everybody else, and it was really extraordinary to see -- a lot of people had their phones out, but as you -- as they -- as you got closer to the casket, you were told to put down your phone and there were so many people who were able to, particularly a number of nuns who knew the Pope, were able to kind of stand aside, kneel and pray and we're given time in front of the casket.
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WARD: Well, saw that iconic image of one of the nuns who literally stopped in her tracks and stood there, just clearly moved. We saw a number of people on their knees praying. We saw children who had been hoisted on their father's shoulders, kind of clamoring to be a part of this, to get a glimpse of this. 250,000 people filed through during that three-day period to pay their respects. An estimated 250,000 people will be here today, and then a further up to one million people who will be lining the streets of Rome to witness, again, another historic, perhaps not a first, because I believe the last Pope to be buried in the basilica Santa Maria Maggiore was about --
LAMB: 300 years.
WARD: -- 300 years ago. Thank you.
COOPER: We're going to take a quick break. I want to get our break in because we want -- we're going to have very limited commercial interruptions in the hours ahead during the service, and we're also not going to be talking all throughout the service. If you are watching at home, we want you to experience what it's like inside the basilica during and here in the square as much as possible without us. We'll be talking, kind of explain some things when they're going on, but we want you to feel and hear the sights, the sounds, as everybody else here will as well. So, we're back with CNN's special coverage in a moment.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Welcome back to CNN's special coverage of the funeral of Pope
Francis. We're just minutes away from seeing the coffin of Pope Francis brought out of St. Peter's Basilica. You can hear the bells. Let's just pause and listen. People are gathering, coming in. We're seeing former President Biden, President Donald Trump, First Lady Melania Trump here as well, monarchs from all over the world.
I want to quickly go to our Ben Wedeman, who is in the crowd with some of the tens of thousands of people who are here. Ben, what are you seeing?
WEDEMAN: What we're seeing, Anderson, is that there has been a massive turnout for this funeral. We were here at 04:30 in the morning. People were already approaching St. Peter's Square. Of course, they weren't let in until six o'clock in the morning. That's almost three hours. Once the police opened the barriers, people just ran up the long boulevard Via della Conciliazione to get as close as possible to the square.
And what we're seeing around us, there is large groups of Italian students who have come here, people from really all over the world. We've spoken to people from Indonesia, the United States, the Philippines, France, sort of just coming from everywhere. I was here in 2005 for the funeral of John Paul II. And what we're seeing is that the crowd here is much more diverse than back then, when it seemed like busloads and busloads of people came from Poland, which was, of course, was the birth place of John Paul II. Here today, what we're seeing is really diverse group of people, all of them coming to pay homage to Pope Francis.
COOPER: You see France's President Emmanuel Macron, the First Lady, paying their respects in front of Pope Francis's casket.
Christiane Amanpour is also joining us at this hour. Christiane, we're seeing so many world leaders inside the basilica right now paying their final respects to the Pope.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Exactly, Anderson. It is extraordinary that a Catholic Pope can bring so many diverse world leaders and so many diverse religious figures. No other major religious leader gets this kind of a funeral and this kind of reaction.
You and I covered the 2005 funeral of John Paul II, which was huge. Afterwards, they told us 300,000 people were there. President George Bush was U.S. President at that time. And now you've got the whole new generation of leaders with all sorts of new problems. If it was the Iraq war back then that was causing a lot of anxiety, now it is the Ukraine war, it is the situation in the Middle East, all of which Pope Francis has weighed in on. He helped a lot in the humanitarian appeals for Ukraine. He helped a lot trying to get the kidnapped children back from Ukraine that Russia had kidnapped. One of his last calls was for peace in the Middle East before he died.
He also was -- you talked about -- I know Chris talked about how he was so close to the Muslim faith and also to the Jewish faith. [03:50:00]
I remember interviewing Rabbi Abraham Skorka, who was Pope Francis' very useful friend back in Argentina. Eventually, they both wrote a book. And I spoke to Skorka about six months after Francis was made Pope, and he said to me back then, that's in 2013, he said, look, this Pope will be a door. He'll be a door between what we have now and what will come forth. He won't be the great reformer, maybe, and it may never happen even in his papacy, but it opened the door. And as we all know, he was much more progressive on many, many issues than the previous Pope. And Skorka also said, his great sort of ministry revolved around his ability to smile and to laugh. He was one of the really major smiley, laughy folks, and not just for the sake of smiling, but because that was something that gave him hope and that made people understand that he was sort of on their side.
And we all know that he really ministered. He put his ministry where his heart and his mind and his soul was. He really lived with the dispossessed. Those were his main constituents. Apparently, some homeless, some former prisoners, will have some kind of role in today's ceremony. So, I think he was, in that case, a real sort of bridge builder. And as Skorka said, Rabbi Skorka, a door to the future, as everybody wonders who will come next.
COOPER: Yeah. Christiane, we'll talk with you throughout the hours ahead. We are going to be commercial-free for the next two hours, I want to point that out, so that we're not interrupting anything. We want everybody who is watching right now to experience this, as people in the square are experiencing it.
It seems like now, Clarissa, perhaps the time now for world leaders inside maybe has stopped, and it seems like they're going to get ready to start at any moment.
WARD: Doesn't it just feel as though a hush?
COOPER: In fact, let's look -- let's just stop and listen to the square, because there is this hush, as Clarissa said, that just has sort of descended. Let's listen in.
There is this sense, I think, of anticipation about what is about to begin. And I think everybody here knows the historic nature of this moment, the religious significance of this moment. There are still some members of royal families who are in. We saw it while Christiane was talking, Prince William as well as Britain's Prime Minister Keir Starmer.
WARD: Just extraordinary, Anderson, to be able to hear the seagulls. Just then, 250,000 people here, and a hush falls across the crowd, and you can hear the seagulls.
And what is so astonishing, you have all these world leaders, all these monarchs, all these dignitaries, you also have, according to the Vatican, groups of poor people who are sitting right there in the square, almost next to these dignitaries, which, again, really speaks to the papacy of Pope Francis, who was all about the equalization of ordinary people, the poor, the marginalized.
LAMB: He said very early on, I want a poor church for the poor. That was that manifesto. It's not difficult to see that in this last accompaniment of Pope Francis, that is, the poorest who will be there with him right at the end. That's, I think, very poignant in terms of the message.
COOPER: In terms of the -- let's talk a little bit about, we're seeing Prince William there, the service, but let's talk about the beginning of the service. What our viewers should expect?
LAMB: Well, at the beginning of the service, we're going to see the, first of all, the casket of Pope Francis brought out. And then, after the procession, the Dean of the College of Cardinals, Cardinal Re will incense the altar. Now, the incense is basically a symbol of prayer. In the Psalms, it says, let my prayer rise before you like incense. And so, it is to try and gather people in prayer for this liturgical celebration. The coffin will be incensed. The altar will be incensed.
[03:55:00]
And then we begin with the opening prayers and readings for this funeral mass.
WARD: Can I ask a question as well?
COOPER: Prime Minister Keir Starmer.
WARD: Christopher, I'm just wondering, what is the most sacred part of this service that we're going to see?
LAMB: The most sacred part will come at the consecration of the bread and wine into the body of Jesus Christ. So, that will be a very profound and sacred moment, as it is at every mass, as it is as it is at every mass. I think we're also going to see some powerful, sacred moments when we see coffin being brought in, and when we hear the chanting and the prayers that are going to be said throughout this service. The Gospel readings are going to focus on the mandate that Jesus Christ gave to Peter, who Catholics believe is the first Pope. And we'll hear in the readings, how Jesus says to Peter, feed my sheep, be a shepherd, and that, of course, is what Francis sought to be as Pope. Catholics see the Pope as the Chief Shepherd of the Church.
WARD: It's extraordinary aerial shot there where you can see, not just the scores of crowds, but also how impeccably organized and orderly this whole procedure has been, and it has taken an enormous amount of volunteers, ambulance workers, municipal workers, to try to ensure that every last detail of this is seamless, is orderly, and is fitting for this extraordinary moment that we all have the privilege of being here to witness and to share with our viewers all around the world.
COOPER: We're seeing the King of Jordan as well.
I want to bring in Katie McGrady, host of SiriusXM's Catholic channel. Katie, what are you going to be looking for in the minutes and hours ahead?
KATIE PREJEAN MCGRADY, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: I'm most especially curious to see, I think, how the crowds really respond. When the coffin is brought out, I wonder if there might be some spontaneous moments of applause, especially from the young people. We saw that when they brought his body from the Casa Santa Marta over to St. Peter's Basilica, the crowd applauded, not out of irreverence, but out of gratitude. And so, I wonder if we might see that.
I'm also going to very closely watch the cardinals as they come out. They are burying. They are saying goodbye to the pontiff, the Pope, but many of them knew him very well. They were close collaborators. They spent time with him. Cardinal Re is in his 90s, and he is burying a Pope younger than him. I mean, I think that that's significant. That shows that these men all worked together for many years, and now they're bidding farewell to their friend. And so, personally, I'll be paying attention to how they are praying their way through this funeral, and I think it will be fascinating to see.
COOPER: And Christopher, to Katie's point on the cardinals, the majority of these cardinals have been appointed by this Pope.
LAMB: Well, yes, the majority of the voting cardinals who will take part in the Conclave have been appointed by Pope Francis, many of them coming from parts of the world that have never had cardinals before. I think of places like Tonga, Haiti, Central Africa, Mongolia. France has really internationalized the College of Cardinals to reflect the global Catholic Church, the shift in access of the Catholic Church, access to away from Europe to global south, and I think that is -- that will be on display when we see the cardinals coming in.
COOPER: And it's so remarkable for that, again, that we have not seen before, that people in Rome have an opportunity, people who didn't want to wait in line and try to get up so early and deal with hundreds of thousands of people getting into the square, have the opportunity to line streets in Rome and get a glimpse of Pope Francis' cascade and this funeral procession.
LAMB: Of course, the Pope's first title is Bishop of Rome, and that's where the idea of the Pope being a universal leader of the church comes from. So, he is first and foremost the Bishop of Rome. He took that very seriously. So, that connection with the Roman people was very important for Francis, and seeing that with this procession, we will see that.
COOPER: We're seeing leaders from indigenous groups, from a number of places around the world as well. This was a Pope who reached out to so many different people.
