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CNN Live Event/Special
242 Passengers And Crew Aboard Crashed Air India Jet. Aired 6- 7a ET
Aired June 12, 2025 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: You'll have the NTSB. The plane was going to the United Kingdom, therefore you will have the AAIB, the Air Accident Investigation Board, which is part -- which is the U.S. equivalent of the NTSB. They will be a party to the investigation.
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN ANCHOR: Right.
QUEST: Air India will be, of course.
SANDOVAL: Right.
QUEST: But the investigation will be led by the Indian authorities because this has happened on Indian soil.
SANDOVAL: Right. CNN's Richard Quest with some reporting and insight on this air tragedy unfolding right now in the western Indian city of Ahmedabad, 242 people aboard an airline are involved in an incident. Much more after this break. You're watching CNN's Breaking News coverage.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: It's Thursday, June 12th, and here's what's happening right now on CNN This Morning.
Breaking news out of India. A passenger jet bound for London has crashed. New details just coming in.
Plus, tensions flare as protests spread across the U.S. A curfew in place for two cities with the national card deployed to another state.
Then, anxious moments in the Middle East. The U.S. pulling personnel out of the region as President Trump urges Israel to take it down a notch.
It's 6:00 a.m. here on the East Coast. Here is a live look at New York City. Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for waking up with me and bring you this breaking news.
Out of India this morning, where authorities there say a passenger plane has crashed at an airboard -- at an airport in Ahmedabad. This video shows heavy black smoke near the airport. Air India has confirmed that it was one of its planes that was traveling to London. We're going to bring in now CNN's Salma Abdelaziz. Salma, what details have you learned so far? SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We just received word that there were 242 passengers and crew on board that flight, 242 souls. And when, of course, you look at these images, Audie, that we are looking at of this thick black smoke pluming from the site of the accident of emergency crews rushing to that scene, it is very difficult to imagine if any of those 242 souls have survived this crash, which happened less than a minute after takeoff.
Only 625 feet of those 242 people on board, 169 are Indian nationals, 53 are British nationals, one Canadian national and seven are Portuguese nationals. That's according to an Air India statement. The airliner has also set up an emergency services center to provide support to the families and to provide support to those emergency crews on the ground.
We've also heard from India's civil aviation minister who says he is doing his utmost to provide whatever is needed for those rescue workers on the ground. But you look at those scenes again, the charred buildings, the crowds, the residents, you wonder how big the epicenter of damage is when it comes to this plane crash. This plane was also supposed to land here in London at about 6:30 local time at Gatwick.
We've heard confirmation from Gatwick that that flight was expected, which means that this -- that families on this side could also be asking questions this morning as they try to find out again what happened to the 242 people on board that flight. For now, the focus is of course on the scene of the crash where emergency rescue workers are working right now through the rubble, through the charred buildings, through the fires that you're seeing on your screen there.
And the other focus of course, the other epicenter of course, is going to be this emergency services center that's been set up by Air India. You can expect that family members will be rushing there with questions, with fear, with worry and concern, Audie.
CORNISH: Salma Abdelaziz in London, thank you for reporting. We're going to continue to follow this throughout the day, this crash with 242 people aboard.
Coming up on CNN This Morning, the U.S. --
SANDOVAL: I want to continue our breaking news coverage here on CNN International. I'm Polo Sandoval in New York. It's Thursday, June the 12th, and that breaking news that we're closely following, an Air India passenger plane has crashed shortly after takeoff at an airport in the western city of Ahmedabad.
It's not clear yet how many people, how many people potentially survived this, or if there are any survivors. We do know though, according to Air India, that 242 people were on board, aboard this flight that took off this afternoon from India, destined to London Gatwick.
[06:05:11] An emergency center has now been activated to support families seeking any information about Air India flight 171. Air India, already posting on social media, calling this an incident, in a statement released shortly afterwards, Gatwick Airport confirmed that the flight did in fact crash shortly after departure as it was headed to London.
And also the chairman of Air India said in a statement, quote, with profound sorrow, I confirm that Air India flight 171 operating off Ahmedabad, London Gatwick, was involved in a tragic accident today. At this moment, our primary focus is on supporting all the affected people and their families. We're doing everything in our power to assist the emergency response teams at the sites and to provide necessary support and care to those impacted.
That again, coming from the Tata Group, the parent company of Air India. Right now, all flights, we should add, out of the airport that this plane took off from have currently been suspended, again, that in Ahmedabad.
Joining us now to discuss more of this breaking news is Mark Pierotti, a professor and fellow of aviation and director at Abu Dhabi Aviation. He's also a licensed aircraft engineer and pilot. Thank you so much for -- for being with us. I'm wondering if you could just share your initial insight as we wait to learn more.
We have, again, confirmed from officials that this plane, this Boeing 787 manufactured in the U.S., crashed shortly after takeoff. The fact that this flight didn't last very long. I'm wondering what you make of that.
MARK PIEROTTI, AERONAUTICAL ENGINEER: Well, it's a 787-8, I think it's the Dash 8 series that Air India have. And they have around about 33 of them in their fleet. And they're -- they're an average of about nine years old. The aircraft first came into service with Air India around about 2012. So Air India are experienced in flying the 787.
And it has a General Electric's GEX engines installed, rather than the Rolls-Royce. So it's a very modern aircraft. The 787 is a fully composite aircraft. It's a very up-to-date engineered aircraft, very well built, has been flying very successfully since its introduction. So it's an excellent aircraft, excellent pedigree. Now it's flown by two crews, a pilot and a co-pilot.
And the takeoff and the landing are the critical times of flight, more than any other time of flight. So that is when things can get difficult at takeoff and at landing. So this seems that this accident was at takeoff. And we do see accidents around the world at takeoff.
But we haven't seen such an accident with a 787. So it's quite new for this aircraft to experience such an event.
SANDOVAL: And on that last -- on that last point, Dr. Pierotti, I'm wondering if you could expand on that. This is a very popular aircraft. Again, there's no indication at this point that this may have had anything to do with the plane itself, because we're still waiting to learn more. But what are airlines around the world going to be asking themselves, especially those airlines, which are many that operate and that have the 787 in their fleet?
PIEROTTI: Well, what we do in the airline world and aviation is when we have an accident, we learn from it as quickly as we can. And the accident investigation board take over. Usually it's the Civil Aviation Authority of the -- of the registration of the aircraft. In this case, it's India, along with the manufacturer.
In this case, it's Boeing and the engine manufacturer, in this case, it's General Electric. The -- the country of type certificate, which is the Americans, the FAA often get involved as well. So a group is made up for the investigation from these different professional organizations. And then they'll determine very quickly what the next actions will be.
Sometimes it's grounding the fleet. Sometimes it's not. It depends on what they feel is the root cause of this accident. And we can't see anything until we get to the root cause. Takeoff is essentially the time of flight. You're still on the ground. The airport and the runway is surrounded by birds, by foreign objects, and by other things.
So it's a very critical time when the aircraft is performing. It's spooling up. It's creating lift on the wings. It's creating forward thrust. So it's a very sensitive time at takeoff. So takeoff and landing are the two likely times that we can have incidents. But we shouldn't see what it is just now until the accident investigators get underway.
SANDOVAL: As an engineer, give -- give us your analysis on so many elements here. You have, as you point out, a wide-bodied aircraft that's specifically designed for these long-haul flights. Our colleague, Richard Quest, was -- was estimating that this flight was going to last roughly 10 hours. So you have a wide-bodied aircraft, I assume, filled up to the top in terms of its fuel. How much of a factor was that in drastically decreasing any sort of survivability here?
[06:10:18]
PIEROTTI: Well, the 787-8, which I think this is the variant of, can take up to 250 packs and it reportedly said that I had about 222 on board, so it was full. It's flying from India to the U.K. so that's a long distance. And this aircraft has a range of about 13,000 kilometers. So it will be filled, it'll be filled full of fuel, it will be a heavy aircraft, it'll be high on its maximum takeoff weight. So this is a critical time.
So getting her off the ground, getting her into climb and into cruise is -- is an effort. And the aircraft is highly avionics, heavily -- high -- heavily automated. So there's a lot of automatic systems assisting the pilots in doing that. But it is a critical time of flight. But the 787 is state of the art. The engineering, the avionics, the engines are just state of the art. So we can't see just now it was anything technical. We can't see just now if it's anything human factors such as the pilots procedures. I'm sure these men and women have been well trained. They are well trained, they're licensed professionals. But the takeoff is a sensitive time of the flight for an aircraft.
SANDOVAL: And as you were speaking just now, there's an extraordinary image that's just into CNN that we're sharing with our viewers around the world which appears to be possibly the tail of this aircraft. It certainly obviously damaged but doesn't appear burned and it appears to be wedged in a building as a crowd of onlookers are below.
The challenge of piecing -- potentially piecing together whatever remains of this aircraft to try to get to the bottom of this investigation. As we just showed viewers, there are some parts of the aircraft that appear to have been spared the fire. But in terms of a majority of it, from the looks of this video, how much of a challenge will that be for investigators if they do -- if they do manage to get the black boxes, however, of the rest, if there is little to nothing left of the rest of the aircraft.
PIEROTTI: So -- so the NTSB is the Investigation Board of America, which still be heavily involved. And then the Indians have their own investigation boards who are very qualified and very capable, manned and women with very serious, well qualified and experienced professionals, pilots and engineers. They'll be piecing things together. They'll be getting their hands on the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder.
This aircraft is very special in that it can transmit while in flight. So there might be some record of what was going on with the engines because they can transmit while flying, as well as the download from the FDR flight data recorder and the voice recorder. So they'll be trying to get their hands on that.
And then once they get their hands on that, it'll go to the laboratory and the parameters of the flight data recorder will be read to see exactly what the angle of attack, what the engine was doing, what the wings were doing, what the flying controls were doing. And it'll tell us all the different parameters of the aircraft and also read the environment the aircraft is in.
If there's a wind shear, if there's a turbulent situation and or if there's been an ingestion into the engine, we could see a spike in EGT or EPR or something like that. So getting your hands on the flight data recorder, getting your hands on the voice recorder and getting into the laboratory is very important.
SANDOVAL: Mark Pierotti, we are so thankful that -- that we have this insight from you as we wait to learn more. Thank you very much and we really appreciate your time and analysis.
We'll have you stand by now as we go now to CNN's Salma Abdelaziz who's following developments from London. Salma, we now have more details on the passenger manifest and more of the people, the 242 souls on board.
ABDELAZIZ: Oh, wow.
SANDOVAL: What can you tell us as we see some the pictures? Salma, if you can hear us.
ABDELAZIZ: Oh, my apologies, Polo. I was just looking at those remarkable images that we're looking at right now.
SANDOVAL: No. It's incredible images.
ABDELAZIZ: And I am sorry. I was absorbed by that image, which is deeply disturbing. You can see a portion of the plane in that building. I mean, that is absolutely terrifying for families to be looking at that right now. And a reminder, 242 souls on board that flight. And it's very difficult to imagine how any of those people survived. But not just that, Polo, When I'm looking at that image, I am imagining that is a building as well. Were there people inside that building? Is that a residential home? How many other people potentially could have been harmed in this crash?
[06:14:54]
Again, a crash that took place less than a minute after takeoff at only 625 feet. Absolutely terrifying right now to look at these images and I want to show some more of the images that we have of just the charred, scorched remains of earth after this crash where you can see emergency workers just frantically trying to hose down any of these fires, the huge plumes of smoke you're seeing.
And again, I emphasize just how residential this area looks and the potential here for how difficult this search in recovery operation will be. What has taken place so far? Well, we know that again, this plane crashed just a minute after takeoff. The government, India's government has said it is doing everything it can to support those rescue efforts and families are rushing to an emergency services center as we speak to try to get answers from Air India.
SANDOVAL: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz following the developments out of London where this aircraft was heading.
Let's get more analysis and more reporting now from CNN's Richard Quest, who joins us. Richard, we have this American made aircraft operated by an Indian airline, passengers from at least four different nations on board. Who's going to handle this investigation?
QUEST: So that's the -- that's straightforward, Annex 13 of ICAO, which is the United Nations body on this Annex 13 is absolutely clear. It is the -- it is the state where the incident took place. So in this case it is India, which unfortunately does have experience of this because they've had various incidents over the years. So it'll be the civil aviation authorities India that will take the lead.
And then you will have parties to the investigation and those parties will include the NTSB from the United States because it's U.S.-made aircraft. The plane was going to the U.K. so the AAIB, the Air Accident Investigation Board will also be on board. And -- and then you'll end up with, you know, there will be representatives from the countries of the different nationalities.
So there'll be a lot of people who will be accredited to the investigation, but the core ones will be the Americans, the British and the Indians.
SANDOVAL: The short duration of this flight, as we just heard from Salma, a minute, if not less. What does that tell you about what investigators are going to be asking themselves as they try to pinpoint a cause?
QUEST: Sure. Well, you start from the fundamental assumption that the plane is that is at maximum thrust and the settings of the flaps and all the other control surfaces are correct. Then the plane goes into the air, you pull back on the stick, the nose goes up, the lift increases and you fly.
Something interrupted that process, whether it because, as your previous guest was saying, something got ingested into the engines. But if that happened, you know, if you lose one engine you can fly on another, that the plane is well capable of flying one engine. Did they lose both? Was it all too quick? And therefore the plane just fell out the sky? Were there incorrect settings?
Incorrect settings is an interesting one because these days, modern aircraft, it's quite difficult to actually get an incorrect flap setting as such that the plane will warn you in many ways of errors that in previous times would have doomed an aircraft. So I think, yes, you know, are we talking, let's put on the table the question of nefarious activity that will also be looked at because of -- because of course the current regional tensions in the area, nobody will be for one second thinking about whether this was man caused instead of aviation related.
So that will certainly be very quickly and in fact, I would imagine relatively quickly with the black boxes and the debris. They will be establishing that there wasn't some other reason, some nefarious reason that brought the plane out of the sky.
SANDOVAL: Just absolutely heartbreaking images that we're getting right now, Richard, as we hear from you, seeing these pictures from -- from the scene, including an extraordinary image a short while ago, Richard, that appears to show what looks to be the tail of the aircraft, either embedded or on top of a -- of a structure. The structure itself looks relatively spared when you compare it to the rest of the -- of the charred scene there. I wonder what that might tell you, Richard, when you see at least that part of the aircraft that was spared the fire itself.
QUEST: Well, I mean, it tells you how it came out the sky. It fell out the sky, it dropped out of the sky. This thing was only at 700 feet. So it's not like there would have been a vast debris field in the sense there'll be an explosive debris field. But it's not like it comes out of the sky, breaks up in the air and it's all over the place. Having fallen tens of thousands of feet, it's going to be a fairly contained -- contained debris field with -- with extreme fire because the plane was fully fueled for the 10 or so hour flight up to London.
[06:20:19]
So there was, you know, the wings were heaving with -- with jet fuel. And it's -- that's going to be the source. It's going to be -- it will be -- I haven't seen that picture to which you're referring to. But bearing in mind the black boxes traditionally are at the rear of the aircraft, or at least some of them are. If that is intact and relatively straightforward to access, then getting the black boxes, they're actually orange.
But getting those and decoding them and reading them will be -- will be easier, will be crucial. And that will tell us -- that will certainly, if there was a setting or a thrust or an issue with engines or anything like that will absolutely be on the voice recorder and certainly on the cockpit data recorder.
SANDOVAL: Yes. Some of the pictures that we're now seeing are first responders and at least crews on the scene handling baggage on the aircraft. It speaks to the -- the humanity here involved. The 242 souls on board, we know according to the airline, Richard, that 169 were Indian national, 53 British, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese among those 242 people.
QUEST: It's worth just putting in context for viewers why this route is important. Because of course the United Kingdom has a large India diaspora population and a lot of those are people are places around Manchester, the north of England and here in the case of places on the fly was going to Birmingham. So a lot of them are living in Birmingham and the Midlands area.
So this will have been relatively, you know, when these new flights opened, when these flights started using the 787, which is more fuel efficient and therefore opens up these long skinny routes for families, VFR, visiting family and friends or relatives and friends, these flights became extremely important. And that's why you see high passenger numbers on a route like Ahmedabad to Birmingham.
SANDOVAL: We know that air India Flight 171 was providing the service from Ahmedabad to -- to London, operating on a Boeing 787. Speak more about that aircraft. How popular is it for airlines around the world, especially for these long -- long haul -- long haul routes?
QUEST: It's crucial. The -- the -- the 787, the Dreamliner was designed specifically to open up these sorts of routes, very much so. And so that's why -- the 787 is used for one of two purposes. It is either used to increase capacity. If you've got two flights, you can add three or four. You could take up a large aircraft, you can run two or three, say between London and Denver or whatever. But it's also used to open up new flights where you don't want three or 400 seats, you don't want that high cost capacity of the older aircraft.
And the 787 allows you to do that because the economics of the aircraft are so good. This is this particular route, and I apologize, I thought it was going to Birmingham, it was going to London, Gatwick. But this particular route is exactly the sort of thing where you have a secondary destination between London and a secondary destination and you can use a smaller aircraft with lower costs.
SANDOVAL: Last week when you had an opportunity, Richard, to have -- to a one-on-one with Campbell Wilson, the CEO of Air India, he laid out this very ambitious sort of radical buildup of -- of the airline as they sought to, as they continue to seek to expand to -- to other markets. What are those -- I'm curious, just based on that conversation from last week and there was no telling this tragedy that was on the horizon, how will this, or will this potentially change that outlook for them?
QUEST: It will be a jolt. One of the things we did talk about when I was down India is the whole question of safety and the emphasis and significance of safety that they were putting onto the aircraft -- onto the airline. So they were very much aware of that importance. This has not been an accident, you know, something they will have forgotten about or they have been looking at safety from top to bottom over the last two years.
And I think that's going to be something that Campbell Wilson and the team is going to very carefully want to review. Air India has had, new, I won't say a lot, but more than it should, of serious incidents and safety concerns over the last 30 or 40 years, sorting that out, rebuilding that safety culture in the airline was very much part of the agenda for Campbell Wilson and the new team that was brought in as they -- as they basically rebuilt Air India from the ground up.
[06:25:22]
I mean when you took over there was staff at Air India that were using Gmail accounts because the internal systems were so bad. Now it's a different airline and they will be deeply concerned as to what has happened that has caused this accident to take place. It's way for us too -- it's way too soon for us to have any real knowledge of it other than the obvious. These things are not supposed to happen.
SANDOVAL: We've heard from airport officials on both ends. We heard from Gatwick officials already calling this, as we see here, a crash. And then also the originating airport, they announced that they would be suspending at least for now, all flights going out of Ahmedabad. If you could just again, as we wait for more information about this plane and those on board, what can you tell us about the impact for -- for further global travel if -- if this one airport is going to be suspending operations?
QUEST: The industry -- the industry -- for travel in terms of the implications from one airport is not materially significant. For the industry overall and every operator of the 78, they're going to want to know what's happened here. And the aircraft -- this does not put a shadow over the aircraft but it raises a question that we need to know sooner rather than later what the cause was and whether there needs to be done anything about it.
And that's going to be the priority because the 78s are taking off every minute around the world. It is the backbone of the long skinny fleet, particularly of the U.S. carriers which all have 78s and the it -- it revolutionized medium to long haul travel. And so they're going to want to know pretty quickly what's been taking place and what's actually happened.
SANDOVAL: Richard, curious to see if I can get your response on this -- on this fresh round of reporting that's just into CNN. The Air India flight that crashed upon departure at that airport on Thursday apparently gave a mayday call to air traffic control shortly after takeoff. And this is according to India's General of Civil Aviation. What do you make of that now that this is now evidence that there was at least a suspicion that something had gone wrong coming from the cockpit?
QUEST: That's very significant. I'm glad you told me that. That's very significant because it means they knew they were in trouble. It means something went wrong. It means they had a warning that something was happening. Now we start to -- to refocus slightly. Does it mean we have a better idea of what that was? No, but it means that they were aware in the cockpit and that also means that the cockpit voice recorder will have good information in a sense of what was happening.
You'll hear noises. You'll hear the crew talking to each other saying this has happened, that's happened. You'll actually hear them say the mayday call as they -- as -- as they -- they deal with it. And then you'll hear and you'll see on the other recorders. So -- so, yes, that is significant.
SANDOVAL: Obviously, flying continues to be one of the safest ways of getting around. Unfortunately, many of us have been through --
QUEST: Fortunately, I'm glad you just -- I'm glad you just said that because I'm going to have to leave you, unfortunately, as I'm literally boarding an aircraft that's about to depart from Istanbul up to London, where of course, I'll be in London in time to pick up the coverage.
SANDOVAL: Richard Quest, safe flight. Thank you so much for your time, your insight, your reporting.
QUEST: Thank you.
SANDOVAL: Let's bring in CNN's Salma Abdelaziz, she's following developments from London. Salma in the last few minutes, we've been receiving new information from authorities there India, now this word that there had been a -- an apparent mayday call according to Indian aviation authorities that was issued from the cockpit of Air India Flight 171. What else are you learning?
ABDELAZIZ: Yes, and you heard from my colleague Richard Quest there just how significant it is for investigators to know now that there was a mayday call made. I just want to go through the timeline here, this very brief timeline of when this accident happened. According to the Aviation Tracker Flight Radar 24, the A171 was seen on an airport outbound at 9:50 a.m. local time.
The signal from the aircraft was lost at 10:08 local time. We understand that the aircraft crashed less than a minute after takeoff at only 625 feet and that it fell, it descended with a vertical speed of 470 feet per minute. So just doing the math there, 625 feet is where it was at and it's dropping at the rate of 470 feet per minute. That speaks to what Richard Quest was saying there about the sense that the plane would have just dropped out of the sky. That's how quickly this happened, because it was at such a low altitude, because the drop was so quick.
[06:30:20]
So that's why we also saw that video earlier that we were discussing, where you can still see whole portions of the plane. However, you are seeing this very extensive and fiery damage, of course, because the airplane's fuels would have been full. That's a great deal of combustibles there.
And that's what's caused, of course, that damage, those fires that you see emergency workers right now trying to put out, or just a few moments ago trying to put out as they searched through the debris. Very difficult to imagine how any of the 242 souls on board that flight could have survived. Also important to point out that this crash appears to be in a residential area, so are there victims beyond those who were on the plane?
All of these are questions right now that Indian authorities are trying to answer, but the focus very much on that scene are providing support to emergency services. That's what the civil aviation minister has said. And, of course, providing support to the families that are asking many questions, many, I'm sure, rushing to the emergency center, emergency center that has been set up by Air India to receive those families and provide minute-by-minute updates as they sift through this wreckage and try to ascertain what happened.
There is a connection to London here, of course. This plane was supposed to land in London Gatwick at 6:30, about 6:30 local time, so potentially families here as well looking for answers, seeking answers. This plane crash happened just around 1:40 local time in Ahmedabad, so you can imagine that just -- that sense of a plane dropping out of the sky in midday in a busy area, in a residential area would have absolutely sent shockwaves through that scene that you're seeing there where people have gathered, again, trying to rummage through the luggage.
I know we've seen images of rescue workers literally picking up luggage, again, a reminder of the 242 souls on board and their families who are now looking for answers.
SANDOVAL: Yes, that important detail in that reporting that you shared, that the signal lost at only 625 feet, suggesting that this tragedy happened within seconds after takeoff. And you also, as you point out, you see some of these pictures of fire crews on the scene trying to extinguish any potential remnants of the flames. But also, Salma, I'm struck by seeing just these heartbreaking images of them handling luggage, for example, belongings, the reminder of the real potential human toll here, and I say potential since authorities have not yet confirmed exactly the fate of the 242 people on board.
What about them, though? What do we know about their nationalities, where they were -- where they came from, where there were, you know, more details about who was on board?
ABDELAZIZ: Yes, I believe a majority of them, according to Air India, are Indian nationals. I believe 169 Indian nationals on board, other nationalities on board as well. But I think what's important to remember is just the deep connection between India and England.
There is a massive Indian diaspora population here in England, so this will have an impact here, as it will where this accident happened. And so you are looking at a very global accident here, although a majority of the nationals are Indian because of that connection with India, because of that massive and powerful diaspora here that I am sure right now are absolutely in shock, absolutely in mourning, sharing news.
It's very common, of course, for families to be visiting each other, so that's what you're looking at when you're looking at that luggage. You're looking at families who potentially packed their bags to see loved ones here in London only moments, seconds after taking off to find themselves, if they've survived in this accident.
Again, we are waiting for confirmation on the fate of those 242 souls on board, but when you look at those pictures, Polo, it is difficult to come to any conclusion but one. And for those families looking at these images, rushing to that emergency services center that's been set up by Air India, their first question will, of course, be what has happened.
And so when you're looking at those emergency crews, they have to recover not just what remains of the flight in terms of investigation, in terms of carrying out what's in the aircraft carrier, but they need to pick up all that luggage you've seen, all those belongings you've seen, anything that can identify those on board and tell their families what happened to them. So every scrap there is important, but as you can see, there's just clearly been huge fires that have torn through this crash site.
You can see, of course, the rescue workers there trying to extinguish those flames. You can see the scorched earth. You can see the burnt out buildings. So you are talking about a rather large epicenter. And when you're looking at these fires, you do have to wonder what was able to survive these fires, but also what can be salvaged or saved from these fires.
[06:35:16]
We did also have that image earlier that you and I were breaking down where you can see a portion of the actual plane. And you've heard from Richard Quest there as well that the plane, because it had the sense, again, of just being so low in altitude, dropping so quickly, lost signal around 625, 630 feet, dropping at a rate of over 470 feet, I think it was, per minute. So a quick drop that the plane would be largely intact, which may allow investigators to find those answers.
And again, as quickly as we're talking about this, as quickly as this happened, I think what's shocking to me is that a mayday call was made in what seems like a crash that only took a moment or two. So for a mayday call to be made, for the -- the crew members to know, for the pilot to know that something was terribly wrong that quickly, to try to get help as quickly as he could, that may begin to give answers to investigators.
But it again tells you just how quickly things went wrong after departure, after takeoff, only making it, again, around 630 feet into the air before things went terribly wrong, crashing to the ground, dropping out of the sky, causing these huge fires and flames that you've seen on the ground because it would have been full of fuel, the plane would have been full of fuel potentially.
My question is, is this a residential area? Are there victims beyond those that were on the plane? So potentially causing greater damage, greater victims than those that were just on board. Air India right now, of course, scrambling for answers. India's authorities trying to push and help the crew members, the -- the rescue workers, rather, that are on the ground that you see right there.
But also you see just how many people were drawn to the scene, Polo, as well. So -- so questions as to how they can essentially tape off this crime scene, if you will, or tape off this scene --
SANDOVAL: Right.
ABDELAZIZ: -- that is very important when you, again, see crowds quickly rushing as they would when they've seen a plane drop out of the sky.
SANDOVAL: Absolutely. Preserving the evidence will certainly be a priority, as will take on the -- the -- just absolutely awful task of potentially identifying and tracking down any -- any possible victims in that -- in that wreck. And to your earlier point, too, now the U.K. foreign minister also expressing his sadness and promising all the support to get to the bottom of -- of this to try to find out what led to this -- to this incident.
Also, Salma, Boeing now weighing in, the manufacturer of this Boeing 787 in his statements, they're telling CNN that they are working to gather more at the moment. Boeing says that it is aware of these initial reports that they're trying to gather more information. As we know, the aircraft involved was that Boeing 787 Dreamliner, according to Flight Radar 24, and there were 242 passengers on board.
And you also bring up a really important point. This was roughly 10:00 in the morning local time for a large jetliner to essentially fall out of the sky. One can only imagine there must have been -- there must have been people on the street, potentially people at homes. You see that building with very little left. Do we know, have we heard any reports of any individuals on the ground potentially hurt in this?
ABDELAZIZ: I think it's still just far too early to tell, especially when you have those emergency crews on the ground focused on getting people help, focused on containing the scene, focused on trying to pull any debris, salvage any material. And you're, of course, dealing with Air India, which is trying again to give answers to those families, to India's Civil Aviation Ministry, which is trying to provide as much support as it possibly can to these crews on the ground.
This is not an everyday event, so you can imagine that reinforcements of some kind have to be called in to support these crews on the ground in -- in such a stark emergency services situation. So you're not going to have those answers just yet. I want to remind people also of the connection here to London. This was a flight that was supposed to land in London's Gatwick Airport at around 6:30 local time.
There's a huge Indian diaspora here in England. It is a very active and tight-knit community. It is a community that right now is going to be asking questions, is going to be providing support to those families that may have been waiting on loved ones to arrive in London today, only to see these images playing out on your screen of just luggage being hauled away from the scene of a crash.
SANDOVAL: Salma, remind us of some of the support system and some of those measures that the airline and airport officials are taking right now, especially there where you are in London, to make sure that any family members who are waiting on the other end of this flight to receive their loved ones are attended to, are getting the answers that they desperately need at this hour.
[06:39:56]
ABDELAZIZ: Right. So let's start with what's happening at Ahmadabad's International Airport. So all flights were suspended from that airport, and that airport put out a statement saying passengers are advised to check with their respective airlines for the latest updates, so all flights were suspended from that airport. And that airport put out a statement saying passengers are advised to check with their respective airlines for the latest updates before proceeding to the airport.
We request your cooperation and patience as authorities manage an evolving situation. So you can see very quickly the airport on the ground there shut down. It has now shifted its focus to this tragedy. We also heard from India's Minister of Civil Aviation, who said he was shocked and devastated. He said that rescue teams have been mobilized, and all efforts are being made to ensure medical aid and relief support are being rushed to the site.
So again, you're hearing their support from Indian authorities, who say they're providing what those emergency crews need, sending specialist help to those areas. We also heard from the chairman of Air India, who calls this a tragic accident, and said we are doing everything in our power to assist the emergency response teams at the site and provide all necessary support and care to those impacted.
So you're seeing here a multilayered response coming in rather quickly from the airliner, of course, from the local airport authorities, from the Indian government. Air India says it has set up a service center, an emergency services center, to greet families, to bring families in that have these questions and provide them with support and minute-by- minute updates, essentially bring them to a help desk where they can be given that information in real time as we're looking at these images of what's happening on the ground. So you can imagine families are rushing to the scene there. But you have to remember, with airline crashes, sometimes these investigations take time. So answers will likely not be available anytime soon. But the key answer for any family right now, of course, will be, is my loved one alive? Is my loved one OK? Have they made it out of this crash?
Now, we don't know because we have yet to hear from Indian officials or from Air India what and who has made it out of this plane, if anyone at all. But you look at those images of the charred earth, and it's hard to imagine that the 242 souls on board came to any conclusion but one. And for those families, that is going to be what weighs on them today.
So every bit that you see from that plane on the ground, oh, my goodness, and we are seeing images now on our screen of those, remain -- of what looks like an individual wounded, burned, being taken away in a stretcher. Unclear what the fate of that individual is. But again, a reminder that this looks to be a residential area. You see those burnt-out trees. You see those scorched homes.
So again, potentially, we could be looking at victims beyond those that were on the plane, passerbys, people who were just in their homes. We mentioned how this crash, this plane, just dropped out of the sky this morning. You can even see portions of it on top of a building.
So you are looking at a crash that fell on a civilian area, on a residential area that may have caused greater damage, more victims than those just on the flight. So for those support and services that the Indian authorities are now providing, it's going to have to extend beyond just the airplane and those who were on that airliner to everyone you see on the ground there with those massive plumes of smoke just burning and anyone who could have been caught up in this emergency and in this tragedy.
So a multilayered response on the ground right now. More questions than answers, of course. Families rushing to an emergency services center that's been set up by Air India. Indian authorities saying that they are mobilizing crews to help with this recovery and rescue operation on the ground.
And you mentioned also Boeing, which already is responding. The maker of the aircraft, of course, is already responding and saying it will look into this. And that's another aspect of this. There's going to be accountability on many levels here beyond just Air India.
SANDOVAL: And very quickly, just to remind our viewers right now, they're joining currently breaking news coverage of Air -- an Air India flight, one of their jetliners crashing shortly after takeoff earlier this afternoon from Ahmedabad International Airport destined for Gatwick, crashing shortly after takeoff, as Salma was reporting just a few moments ago, with the fate of the 242 passengers and crew aboard still unknown.
Meanwhile, the Indian -- Indian prime minister adding his voice also to the many people who have been sounding off and concerned about what happened this afternoon. The prime minister writing on social media that the tragedy in Ahmedabad has stunned and saddened us. It is heartbreaking beyond words.
In this sad hour, my thoughts are with everyone affected by it. I have been in touch with ministers and authorities who are working to assist those affected. Salma Abdelaziz, joining me live from London right now where this flight was going.
[06:44:58]
And the prime minister has, Salma, speaking to your earlier point about the global nature of this tragedy with the passengers and crew on board hailing from at least four different countries. And this certainly would have been a very popular route, especially for Indian nationals who either live or have family in the U.K., you say.
ABDELAZIZ: Absolutely. And there's a huge diaspora, Indian diaspora here in England. I would say India is intertwined with England in so many ways, in cultural ways and beyond. And this flight, again, was supposed to land in London Gatwick at around 6:25 local time. So there were families, there were people on this side expecting to receive loved ones. And instead, they're looking at just these horrifying images of a scorched earth, of emergency crews, of bits of baggage, of wounded people and wondering what has happened to their loved ones.
Now, much of the support, of course, you can imagine will be taking place on the ground in Ahmedabad. But you can imagine that there will be some support here in London as well. This is a flight, again, that carried nationals from multiple countries.
So there will be that global response. But the fact that we're hearing so quickly from India's prime minister, of course, speaks to just how supremely important it is for the Indian government right now to show that it is on the ground, that it is providing the services needed, that it is deploying the crews to handle this accident. Because this is not just a plane crash, as you can see on your screen right now.
This is an accident that has hit a residential area, caused damage to buildings, potentially hurt others. So this is much bigger than just, not that it would be just a plane crash, but it is bigger than a plane crash because of that epicenter. Again, you'll remember Richard Quest talking about the plane seemingly as if it was dropping out of the sky because it only reached that altitude of around 625 feet, or at least that's when it was last, the signal was last received when it was at that altitude, but then crashing at a rate of 475 feet a minute.
So something that happened in moments time. But it is shocking to me, it does make me stop in my tracks to realize that even in that short time, a mayday call was made. A mayday call was made by the crew that could begin to reveal at a later date what happened, what took place. But it again shows just how quickly from departure, less than a minute after takeoff this crash happened, how quickly after departure everything turned wrong.
Everything was clearly going wrong that a mayday call was made for those passengers on board, thinking they're taking off to go to London. And this is the fate we're looking at right now. We're of course waiting to find out the fate of those 242 souls, but those images I think right now speak volumes.
SANDOVAL: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz reporting on what is really a wealth of information that we've received just in the last hour alone. We'll let you go so you can continue with your reporting and gathering more. We'll get back to you as soon as you get something new. Thank you, Salma.
All right, for more now, we're joined by Tony Stanton, who is a pilot, flight examiner, and also a consultant director at Strategic Air. He is joining us live from Brisbane, Australia. Tony, thank you so much for joining us. I'm sorry it's under these circumstances.
The -- you just heard the conversation right now I was having with Salma Abdelaziz, and this new reporting from Indian officials now showing that there was a mayday call that was issued just moments before impact. Right off the bat, what does that tell you as an expert?
TONY STANTON, CONSULTANT DIRECTOR, STRATEGIC AIR: I guess it's clear that the pilots certainly knew early on -early on immediately after takeoff, that they were dealing with something pretty significant. A mayday is, of course, a call that's a last resort. And then we also see that they made no other transmissions, or the reporting is they made no other transmissions, so they were certainly very busy in the cockpit immediately after takeoff. They knew they had something pretty serious to deal with.
SANDOVAL: When you look at the crash site itself, again, just to underscore, there is no early indication at this point as to what may have actually led to this crash. But when you see, perhaps, the way that it went down, obviously there are some telling signs, perhaps, in that -- in that crash site. What does that tell you, particularly if there are parts of the plane that seem to have been untouched by the fire itself?
STANTON: Yes, look, as you rightly say, it's very, very early, and we need to be very careful not to play a guessing game as to -- to what we think wrong. But if we stick to what we saw, we certainly saw the aircraft not performing. It had -- it had very little, if any, performance after takeoff. Now, that could be for a number of reasons. It could be because of an engine failure or multiple engine failure.
That aircraft can certainly fly very well on a single engine. So for it to perform like we see in the video, potentially a double engine failure, but also potentially insufficient performance from the engines. On the 787, you actually enter the weights and the data and so forth into the system, and the aircraft will produce not necessarily 100 percent of the power available to it.
[06:50:20]
So you might find you enter data into it, and the aircraft will say, OK, we'll give you 75 percent power for this takeoff. So it's also possible that there were data errors and the aircraft just wasn't producing the power that it needed.
SANDOVAL: The Boeing 787, we've all flown it perhaps at one point or another. It is extremely popular. It is really quite safe, especially if it's confirmed that there are fatalities involved. This would, if I'm not mistaken, make it the first. But again, don't want to get ahead of it yet, as we still do not know the fate of the 240 people on board. But let's talk about just the measures that are in place.
For such a modern and safe aircraft, what kind of measures are in place to try to allow the pilots to overcome engine failure, stalls, et cetera?
STANTON: Absolutely. This is a very, very safe aircraft. It was first manufactured and released in 2011. My understanding also is this is the very first tragedy of this nature in a 787. It is closely linked to the 777 aircraft. It is really the big brother, if you like, of the 777. The 787 and 777 share a common pilot type rating. But it has multiple redundancies in the aircraft. The aircraft can certainly fly very well fully loaded on one engine, suffering an engine failure at takeoff.
But there are multiple, multiple systems of redundancy on this aircraft. It's going to be very interesting to see where the investigation goes.
SANDOVAL: Air disasters are few and far between, thankfully, as air travel continues to be one of the safest ways of getting around. But I'm curious, just in terms of what we already know, of the facts, which is this flight lasted perhaps just seconds. How unusual is that when you compare it to other air disasters? For a plane that large, that sophisticated, to come to an abrupt end?
STANTON: Absolutely. I guess that was the first thing that was quite shocking to me when I obviously saw what was unfolding before us. I was very surprised to see that the aircraft was a 787-8. To see this is just incredible. The -- the aircraft, as I say, even if it had a single engine failure, it can fly very well on one engine straight after takeoff, which is why I wonder whether maybe there were potentially data entries in there.
We certainly see, again, if we stick to what we see, we certainly see an aircraft that is not performing, it is not producing power in order to continue the climb after takeoff. But the 787 is a very safe aircraft and it looks like this is the first tragedy of this nature since it was brought into production in 2011.
SANDOVAL: Right. And introduced, Tony Stanton. We're so grateful for your insight as we wait to learn more, not only about what may have led to this, but certainly the fate of the 242 passengers and crew on board. Thank you, Tony.
And we do want to get you quickly, though, to some, before I go to my next guest. Actually, let's do that first. We're now joined by Marco Chan. He's a senior lecturer in aviation operations at Buckinghamshire New University. Apologies. We're going through so much here right now. And as we try to learn more, I'm wondering if you might bring us up to speed on what your initial assessment is of the situation here that's unfolding, not far from the airport where Flight 171 took off.
MARCO CHAN, SENIOR LECTURER IN AVIATION OPERATIONS, BUCKINGHAMSHIRE NEW UNIV.: No, thank you very much for that. Very quickly, I would say I was quite shocked, similar to quite a lot of experts you probably have spoken to.
The Boeing 787 is a very safe aircraft, never really had any fatal incidents or accidents. The airport has a fairly flat terrain, and on the day I've looked at the weather reports of the time of the accident as well, it looked to be a fairly calm day. The usual weather out there, nothing significant.
With an aircraft as safe and as modern as this, to have just gone down as such with loss of lift with a Mayday declared is highly unusual. Usually when we look at these accidents, we look at the weather as the first point. Now that can potentially be ruled out because it is a fairly calm day.
And perhaps engine failure. I think a lot of experts would have hinted at that as well. So it's something to look at. Perhaps a loss of lift due to a stall as well. But given the fact that a mayday call was made fairly early on, it was a couple of seconds after a mayday call was made initially, if there was a stall with an aircraft falling out of the sky, if you will, I think the pilots would have prioritized on securing the aircraft rather than making a mayday call.
[06:55:18]
So it's still very early stage, but we can look at these factors and the recordings later on as well.
SANDOVAL: Sure. And on that topic, Marco, put yourself in the shoes of the first responders. What are the first things that you would be after once arriving on the scene here?
CHAN: Oh, definitely securing the perimeter. First of all, it's a highly, a very dense residential area. Let's get the residents evacuated. There's going to be a lot of bystanders, audience looking at what's going on. Let's get them secured. And of course, at the same time, make sure if we can identify any survivors, get them to the hospital as quickly as possible as a first responder. Hopefully later on, the investigators come on when the scene is secure. They can look for the black boxes to then answer a lot of these questions we already have.
SANDOVAL: And based on your knowledge of the Boeing 787, what are the locations of the data recorders, both the voice and the flight data recorders?
CHAN: Now, a lot of these, what we call black boxes, and you quite rightly pointed out as well, is usually separated into copy voice recorder and the flight data recorder. Now, a lot of these are usually towards the tail of the aircraft because that's usually the safest area in terms of impact received. We're getting the least damage to these recorders. So hopefully they can identify that fairly quickly.
SANDOVAL: And you mentioned weather. I'm glad you mentioned that as well. What are the other factors that investigators are certainly going to take into account once they recover these recorders, once they certainly assess the situation on the ground and they secure the scene? What other factors will they be considering, especially for planes that are that, quite frankly, do not fall out of the sky this easily, given how advanced they are in their design?
CHAN: I think the very first point they would want to examine the cockpit voice recorder. Just listen to the conversations in the cockpit. What led to the mayday call? What kind of warnings might have been triggered? What messages have been triggered in the cockpit at the time? Also, what actions have they carried out? Any particular checklist they've been carrying out as well, trying to salvage the situation?
Other things to look at as well, a flight going to London Gatwick, they will be carrying quite a bit of fuel, 242 passengers on board would be slightly on the heavier side for the aircraft to take off in an airport or an environment of 37 degrees Celsius out there. So the engine performance could be at a lower rate than optimum. Also, they would want to look at as well, at which point did the aircraft take off? Was it an intersection takeoff? Did they take advantage of the full length of the runway? That could come into play as well.
SANDOVAL: What are some of the factors that could go wrong upon takeoff? We've heard from multiple aviation experts such as yourself that to take off and landing, those are the most crucial, the high stakes moment, shall we call them, of any flight.
So what could go wrong? Again, this is purely just exploring the different possibilities. What could go wrong during takeoff for a Boeing 787?
CHAN: No, indeed. Of course, we don't want to assume what has gone wrong. But like you're saying, let's explore the possibilities. Now, something in the very first stage for the pilots, could there be error in terms of data entry? I believe Tony earlier touched on that as well. If there has been an error in data entry, we always say garbage in, garbage out.
So there's a computer after, or whatever command you've given the computer, that's the output they're going to generate. So that could affect the engine performance. Say for example, if it thinks it's lighter than it really is, hypothetically. The other thing is weather issue, was there a wind shear example, is a strong wind condition. But it has been ruled out fairly quickly. Looking at whether report course, we can get a more accurate report from the authority.
Also, in terms of the takeoff procedures, were they carried out correctly? Was there anything wrong in the takeoff run? Did they have any issues with any part of the flight control, landing gear, wings? Hypothetically, engine issue is one of the highest risk issue we could have on takeoff. And if that was the case, were the procedures carried out correctly? Now at the moment, we haven't seen any evidence of engine issue. It's purely hypothetical at this stage. Could there be bird strike? We've had a similar accident in Jeju in South Korea with Jeju Air as well. So could that be another cause? We haven't seen anything on the footage, of course, but these are the things we can explore.
[07:00:07]
SANDOVAL: And as you point out, we do not have the answers to any of these questions, but I'm glad you mentioned them. These are the same exact questions that investigators on the ground are beginning to ask themselves ahead of what's going to be a lengthy investigation. Marco Chan from Buckinghamshire New University, thank you so much for your time and your expertise.
CHAN: Thank you.
SANDOVAL: Again, following breaking news out of western India with a plane crash, An Air India flight headed to London, 242 people on board. More breaking news coverage after this.
