Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Event/Special
Air India Plane Crashes In Western India With 242 People On Board. Aired 7-8a ET
Aired June 12, 2025 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARCO CHAN, SENIOR LECTURER IN AVIATION OPERATIONS, BUCKINGHAMSHIRE NEW UNIVERSITY: So could that be another cause? We haven't seen anything on the footage, of course, but these are the things we can explore.
[07:00:08]
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN ANCHOR: And as you point out, we do not have the answers to any of these questions, but I'm glad you mentioned them. These are the same exact questions that investigators on the ground are beginning to ask themselves ahead of what's going to be a lengthy investigation. Marco Chan from Buckinghamshire New University, thank you so much for your time and your expertise.
CHAN: Thank you.
SANDOVAL: Again, following breaking news out of western India with a plane crash, An Air India flight headed to London, 242 people on board. More breaking news coverage after this.
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: An Air India flight with 242 passengers and crew members on board has crashed in Ahmedabad in western India just moments after taking off. We are getting just unbelievable video here of the crash site there showing plumes of smoke, burning buildings, charred debris littering the ground. Indian officials say the flight gave a mayday call soon after takeoff.
It was headed for London's Gatwick Airport. Aviation Tracker Flight Radar 24 indicating the Boeing aircraft lost signal at 625 feet. Now this stunning image from social media shows what appears to be the tail of the plane sticking out from the top of a building. You see it just there.
Joining us now CNN's Salma Abdelaziz with the latest on this. These pictures are stunningly awful. What can you tell us?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Deeply distressing images that you're looking at there, especially when you consider that there are 242 souls that were on board that flight. They come from four different countries, India, Canada, Britain and Portugal. This is a global tragedy and when you look at where this accident took place you have to ask the question, are there victims beyond the passengers on board that plane? Because you are looking at a fiery scene that is in the middle of a residential area, crowds of people who have gathered. You can see buildings that have been scorched by the flames. You saw of course that building where a portion of the plane appears to have been crashed and then the sense that this plane dropped from the sky. You mentioned the altitude. It was only a minute after takeoff at just about 625 feet that the plane began to drop at a rate of 475 feet per minute. That is how quickly this tragedy happened and even with that quick pace the pilots were able to make a mayday call. And that mayday call may reveal what happened.
But right now all the focus is of course on those 242 souls. Air India says it has set up an emergency support center to meet families, to bring families in and essentially provide them with a help desk that's going to give them minute-by-minute updates. We've heard from India's prime minister who's described this as a tragedy, who says he's deeply saddened to see this news. We've heard from India's civil aviation minister who said he is providing support, providing whatever those crews that you've seen trying extinguish those flames need.
There is of course a connection here to London. This flight was supposed to land around 6:25 local time here in London Gatwick airport. I want to note that there's a huge Indian diaspora in England which I am sure right now is watching this news with fear and bated breath.
But right now of course more questions than answers and when you're looking at those scenes, when you're looking at the scorched earth, when you're looking at the burned buildings, when you're looking at those massive flames and the bits of plane embedded in a building, it is very difficult to imagine how any of those 242 souls could have survived but that is exactly what their families are doing right now.
They are waiting to hear more. They are waiting to find out their fate. We've even seen images of luggage being pulled out, just a reminder of the human toll in this tragedy.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Salma stick with us. Let's also bring in now CNN transportation analyst, Mary Schiavo, as we continue watching some of this video that has been coming in. Mary you've been up since just moments after and talking about this since moments after we started learning of this crash. What is sticking out to you right now about what we know and what we don't?
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Well the clues that we have already do give, you know, some indication about the fact that -- that was just mentioned that the pilots were able to get off a mayday call. They realized that they were having difficulty with something and the altitude is extremely low. I mean on a -- on a takeoff and there is also a video circulating that shows the aircraft with the nose up which is how it's supposed to be for takeoff but still sinking.
[07:04:54]
So there are a lot of clues already but because this is a Boeing 787, the most, you know, most advanced, most modern plane that Boeing makes, that flight data recorder will record literally thousands of points of data. You know that everything from the engine performance, the -- the flap settings, the wing settings, every control surface in that aircraft, what everything was said in the cockpit, they will have an unbelievable, you know, cornucopia of data that the plane will give the investigators just, you know, give the investigators straight from the plane.
Same with the cockpit voice recording that will -- will indicate what the mayday call was about if they didn't get the full description off to air traffic control. So the plane itself is going to give a lot of clues. The low altitude is concerning. I mean they should have been able to, you know, be certainly climb faster than that and of course they'll look at the runway in the airport itself.
Did they use the full runway? Did they have enough runway length? Was there some problem with the takeoff? What were the settings? I mean there's a lot of clues already but let's say this will be a very important investigation for India which is the fastest growing air market demand for air travel in the world and for Boeing which has an awful lot at stake here.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The Boeing 787 Dreamliner appears to be the type of aircraft at play here. Mary, just after takeoff and I know there's so much we don't know at this point but what are the range of things that can go wrong just after takeoff that aren't apparent before takeoff when a plane goes through a thorough check?
SCHIAVO: Well, I mean you, you know, some things as, you know, as -- as huge and catastrophic as, you know, losing an engine. We saw the crash in Korea, you know, just after the new year of a bird strike. There was no indication of that here. I mean there are many things that can do. But, you know, one of the things that -- beat in the right settings when you lift off, when you lift off that runway you have to have that so you can climb and so you can perform.
So whatever has gone wrong could have literally happened on the runway on the -- on the settings before you ever did the takeoff roll and then of course you can have control surface failures. You can have, you know, computer failures. You can have engine failures. There are a lot of things that can happen. But, you know, often on a takeoff, you know, the problem has -- has occurred, you know, before you ever started the roll with the settings with -- with a problem that isn't readily apparent.
So but because of the plane and because of the newness of the flight data recorder these investigators will have as never before they will have more data provided it survived the impact than it should. They will have more data than in any other air crash from the plane.
[07:07:51]
BERMAN: That is interesting because it happened so quickly. They're likely to be able to find it quickly and get more data from it quickly. Mary Schiavo, Salma Abdelaziz, stay with us both of you. Much more on the breaking news coverage ahead. Air India flight 171, 242 souls on board crash just after takeoff. Stunning and tragic pictures coming from the scene.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: All right the breaking news this morning out of western India. CNN has confirmed that an Air India flight with 242 passengers and crew on board crashed just moments after takeoff. It was headed for London's Gatwick Airport on board passengers predominantly from India but also the U.K., Canada and Portugal.
Let's get right back to CNN's Salma Abdelaziz who is monitoring this. And you're getting new information, Salma, about the crash site itself. What's happening?
ABDELAZIZ: Yes and just remember when we're looking at these images of course we are talking about 242 souls on boar, 242 passengers and crew whose fate right now is still unknown and their families looking at those images of the charred aftermath of this crash of burnt earth, of damaged buildings, of emergency crews trying to put out these flames and this fire.
As you mentioned this is a crash that took place just upon departure less than a minute after takeoff according to flight tracking radar. And we are talking about a global event here a global accident. You mentioned four different nationalities more than 160 of those on board were Indian nationals. You have more than 50 British nationals as well as individuals from Portugal.
So you're looking at a very global response in a very multi-layered effort again to respond to this tragedy. An emergency center has been activated by the Tata Group that's the parent company of Air India of course, the airliner behind this crash. So an emergency center set up to provide essentially a help desk to the families seeking answer.
We've also heard from India's civil aviation minister who says he is providing all the support that he can to those emergency crews that you see on the ground putting out fires to the ambulance workers to the teams trying to recover and salvage anything that they can find on the ground.
We've also heard from India's prime minister who said he was extremely saddened to hear of this tragedy and that his heart goes out to those families. I want to note that this crash took place in the Indian state of Gujarat which is the prime minister's home state. So this will hold personal importance to him.
[07:15:03]
We have also heard from the U.K.'s foreign minister David Lammy who says he has open channels of communication with his counterparts in India to find out more about those 53 British nationals whose fate right now remains unknown.
I also want you to take a look at these images because it gives you a sense that there may potentially be more victims here than those that were just on the plane. Just look at that epicenter again because this plane crashed at such a low altitude so quickly after departure you can expect that it was full of fuel and essentially that that caused huge fires potentially huge explosions on the ground in the middle of the day in a busy city right near an airport.
I mean you can see the crowds that are rushing to that scene making it ever more difficult you could imagine for those emergency workers on the ground to do their work. So a nation India mobilized. Multiple countries now opening their channels of communication to that government. Families seeking answers and going to that help center that's been provided by Air India for those answers.
And right now we are just waiting as those families are to find out what has happened to those 242 souls on board.
SIDNER: All right thank you to our Salma Abdelaziz. We have a video, new video just in where you're going to see the plane sort of going down there it is there one minute about one minute after takeoff. You see it sort of it looks like it's almost leveling off and then slowly going down and there is that awful explosion. Salma Abdelaziz just mentioning it would have been full of fuel at that point in time as it left to travel to London, 242 people and crew members aboard their awful pictures there.
Mary Schiavo, you -- you have seen this video now you've been looking at it, it is a horrific, horrific view from someone that appears to be near a rooftop. They probably heard how loud this was and wondered what was going on. Can you give us some sense of what you see right there just from your expert eyes as to sort of how the plane reacted and what you see there if you can indicate anything that would have been a major problem until we saw the result that it crashed.
SCHIAVO: Well, a -- a couple things and again, yes, I mean we don't know what angle we're seeing this from and it's -- and it's difficult to get fine detail but at first that it does not appear that the nose is angled up that it has the correct angle pointed up as it should be on takeoff it's almost kind of leveled off as you mentioned. I think you saw that correctly. And then you do see the nose up a little more but in relation to where we're seeing the video now we don't know the angle that we're seeing the video from but it does not appear to be climbing at all.
So the nose is up and it's still sinking. And -- and those are, you know, you know that's something's wrong when that happens on takeoff because you have to set the correct angle of attack meaning how high towards the horizon, do you put the nose and this nose was not at that location and even at the end the nose up is sinking. So, you know, it could be any number of things, you know, it -- it doesn't appear, you know, there was no indication that the pilot in the mayday call said that that he or she had lost an engine.
But it doesn't appear that it had, you know, the -- the power or the lift so, you know, initially it looks mechanical but there's also an issue of what was their performance on the runway, what was their runway speed, did they approach the end of the runway, they have to lift off too soon. I mean there's so many unknowns but that video that we just saw clearly indicates that something's very wrong on the takeoff and it's not climbing.
BOLDUAN: Good. Absolutely. Mary, thank you stick with us. Salma Abdelaziz is getting -- bringing together more information more detail clearly so much more to learn as this is all unfolding before our eyes. We're going to have much more on the plane crash in India ahead including we're just getting a new detail --
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for joining me here in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Erica Hill in New York as we continue CNN's breaking news coverage following the developments now out of India where an Air India plane crashed on takeoff in the city of Ahmedabad, more than 240 people on that Boeing 787 it was bound for London to Gatwick Airport.
These images from the ground here you see crowds gathering you can see those large plumes of smoke rising into the air and as more images are coming in we also have that image to show you. You may have noticed there a piece of the plane apparently, it appears to be the tail sticking out of a building as you see there understandably search and rescue operations underway at this hour.
[07:20:04]
Air India has also activated an emergency operations center to support families of the passengers. Flights of course in and out of Ahmedabad International Airport have been temporarily suspended as we bring you up to speed here again 242 passengers and crew on board the majority of those are Indian nationals as well as more than 50 British nationals, a Canadian and a number of Portuguese nationals as well.
Scott Hamilton is an aviation analyst. He's joining us now from Paris. So, Scott, as we're bringing our viewers up to speed on what we do know in this moment, this is a residential area, a fairly large residential area just outside of the airport in Ahmedabad. And what we know is that this flight lost contact less than a minute after takeoff, registered a mayday call.
There is not much else that we know in this moment. As you're seeing these images, though, come in from the ground and even the video that we have that was taken by a bystander noticing this plane take off just moments before that crash. What stands out to you and what are your main questions?
SCOTT HAMILTON, AVIATION ANALYST: Well, we don't know much of anything, as you pointed out. The only thing we know is there was a mayday call and -- and the plane didn't get very high. Looking at that video, though, and -- and mind you, this is a -- a amateur video. The thing that stood out to me is it did not look like the flaps were extended.
Now, the flight data recorder, the cockpit voice recorder will -- will be able to verify that or not. But in the video, it did not look like the flaps were extended. And if the flaps weren't extended, then the slats probably were extended on the leading edge. And -- and many a plane has crashed because the flaps and slats were not extended.
Now, I really want to caution that's just what I could see on this amateur video on a very small screen. I'm traveling. I'm on my laptop computer. So I -- I just want to really be cautious about that. HILL: Sure. And that is understandable for people who aren't familiar with the workings of a plane. Just -- just put into context for us what it means when those flaps do not extend. What does that mean for the plane itself and how it can or cannot operate?
HAMILTON: It -- it -- now, let's remember that the pilots set the flaps and the slats. It's not the airplane that does that. And if the flaps and slats are not set properly on takeoff, the wings don't generate the lift that's necessary. And what you can see in this video is that the plane is -- is kind of flat and starts to descend. So -- so my first impression is that this may -- may be a flap and slat issue that you don't get lift on.
Now, again, we won't know that until we get the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder and -- and perhaps better camera videos from other angles, because this was angle from the rear of the airplane. And -- and it's just pretty difficult to -- to really get a firm grip on if those flaps and slats were extended or not.
HILL: Yes. And I'm just -- I'm going to see if the control room. I don't know if we could put up that video specifically that Scott is referring to that we have from someone on the ground. As -- as Mary Schiavo pointed out. Important to note, we don't know the exact angle that it was taken off. And I do want to give you a warning that this may be difficult for some people. This video showing just moments before the plane crashes.
And we can see what appears to be some of that crash afterwards. As we -- as we work to get that video up, we also, of course, had just shown our viewers what appears to be the tail of the plane in a building in this residential area. As we're talking about that -- that video there, you can see it, these very important flight data recorders, the cockpit voice recorder.
It's my understanding that oftentimes those are located in the tail of the plane. So potentially this could be helpful in terms of that investigation and access to those black boxes in a more timely manner, frankly.
HAMILTON: That's right. The -- the black boxes are in the tail of the airplane precisely because the tail is usually the part of the airplane that survives a crash like this. The investigators are going to certainly take a look at the pilot history, the maintenance of the airplane, whether there might have been any foreign object, debris on the runway, whether there might have been a bird strike.
And -- and once they have a chance to look at the videos and enhance this video that we've seen or -- or see other videos, they -- they may well zero in on the slaps and slats issue. That appears to me like the flaps were -- were up. I couldn't see the slats.
[07:25:02]
HILL: There was also the fact that this mayday call came less than a minute after takeoff. The flight last contact was at 625 feet, but it was dropping. It was falling at a rate of 470 feet per minute. It is, we're talking, of course, about a matter of seconds after takeoff. But given how low it was to the ground, comparatively speaking, how quickly it was dropping, what are your concerns not just about the plane itself, but also the -- the impact, frankly on the larger area given that this is a residential area not too far from the airport and fairly dense?
HAMILTON: Yes. The -- the investigators are also going to be looking to see what kind of power the engines were producing at the time. If there were bird strikes, that could have interrupted power. But I didn't see any compressor stalls, which is typical with a bird strike in this video. But they'll look into that as well. As far as crashing into a populated area, that's, boy, that's just bad luck of the draw here.
HILL: Yes. And it is, as far as we know, no weather issues. We've been told at the time in the area, as, of course, investigators are starting to look into anything obviously that could come into play here in terms of this investigation. We do have this video that both you and I were referencing earlier. I just want to let our visitors know we're only going to show this once because we understand that it could be disturbing.
But as we put it up, Scott, just to go through again what you can or cannot see in terms of the angle of that plane and what investigators may be looking at based here, we go on this video, so we see this plane. You can see someone captured the plane, obviously. And then as it goes out of frame, we do see a moment later, of course, which is difficult, this plume of fire and smoke. It appeared fairly straight as it's going across the screen there. What can you glean from that, if anything?
HAMILTON: Yes, well, it certainly was not in the climbing attitude. It wasn't in a nose up climb. Like anybody who's ever been on an airplane or watched an airplane take off, they see it in a nose up attitude when they climb. This was in a flat or reasonably flat attitude away from the runway. And -- and it just didn't seem to be climbing at all.
Now, again, is it because the wings weren't generating lift because of the flaps and slats, or is the airplane going too slow because of a bird strike? Was it going too slow because of an engine problem? Again, as you pointed out, the investigators are going to be looking at, you know, a dozen or more areas of routine investigation. They'll look into the pilot industry, the maintenance history, and so on.
HILL: And when -- when we talk about this plane, specifically a 787- Dreamliner, they were first introduced in 2011, just recently marking a billion passengers, right? Boeing marking that recently. These are planes that likely many people who fly have been on it is used a great deal. Some 2,100 flights a day involve a 787 Dreamliner. Talk to us about the safety history of this aircraft.
Well, this is the first accident with the 787. And in fact, I just flew into Paris for the Paris Air show that begins next week on a 787 from United Airlines out of Chicago. So it's a safe airplane. It had a troubled history in its production period before it entered service in 2011, but that is ancient history now. And this airplane was 11 years old, according to the information that I've seen on the Internet so far. It's -- it's one that's been maintained by Air India. And of course, the level of maintenance is going to be part of the investigation. That's routine. But it is a safe airplane. And this is the very first fatal accident of 787.
HILL: And in terms of how broadly it's used, just for people who are watching today, as we noted, of course, flights suspended at this moment in and out of Ahmedabad. If people -- is this something that, pardon me, people should be concerned about? I mean, when you talk about that safety history, when we're looking at planes, this feels like a very safe plane, as you're looking at it. And as we know, air travel actually is one of the safest forms of transportation.
HAMILTON: Yes. There -- there I think more than thousand 787s in service, and -- and I think something like 23 or 2,400 have been ordered all over the course of its lifetime so far. You know, all the kinks have been worked out of the airplane. And I know that because it's a Boeing airplane and -- and the 787 did have some early history that I mentioned.
[07:29:57]
People are going to jump to conclusions that this is another Boeing problem. And -- and I would certainly caution people against doing that because I think probably this is be to going be a -- an operational problem, not a -- not an airplane problem per se, because the -- the airplane, again, this -- this is the first accident since it went into service in 2011. It's got a very good safety record.
HILL: And really important to note out. And -- and -- and in terms of that caution, also an important point, as these are, of course, just the early moments, only a few hours, of course, after this tragedy. Really important to have your insight, your expertise, Scott. Thank you so much for being with us.
HAMILTON: You're welcome.
HILL: CNN's business editor-at-large, Richard Quest, is also traveling at the moment. He, of course, is an expert in the field of aviation. Just a short time ago, before boarding his own flight, he spoke with some of my colleagues on CNN about this crash. Take a listen to what we learned from Richard.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANDOVAL: We want to go straight to CNN's Richard Quest. Coincidentally, Richard, you're joining us from an airport at the moment. I recall just last week you had an opportunity to have a face- to-face, a one-on-one conversation with Air India's CEO. Obviously, there was no telling this -- this tragedy that was on the horizon. What are you hearing now from your aviation sources about what happened today?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Well, yes, I'm actually transiting at the moment. I'm at Istanbul Airport transiting between Tashkent and London. Looking at this particular incident, this is way up there in terms of the most serious, the most grave, obviously because of the sheer loss of life that will have ensued.
The huge amount of smoke that you are seeing coming from the crash site, that is to be fully expected, bearing in mind this was a Boeing 787 Dreamliner. I haven't had a chance to look at the age and the provenance of it, but it was a 787-9 Dreamliner. So it was fully fueled for the long trip from Ahmedabad all the way to London Gatwick, which is a, you know, 10-plus hour flight.
And the aircraft will have been stuffed with fuel not only to get to Gatwick, but also to go to its alternate as necessary. So that is the moment of flight, the time at which this incident, and you always call it an incident until you actually have more information. It is a term of art in a sense. You call it an incident. So the timing of this incident is immediately after takeoff. The plane is barely in the air.
According to flight radar, it's at about 700 feet give or take when it falls out of the air for whatever reason. And this is the two most critical -- the two most critical moments of flight are obviously takeoff and landing. Takeoff is relatively straightforward if you set the aircraft correctly and the speeds are correct and the plane goes into the air.
And that's what the focus is going to be here, what happened that clearly caused the aircraft to -- to lose altitude at such a crucial point of flight when the engines would have been developing maximum thrust for takeoff. So it's not surprising there's a huge plume of smoke. If anybody has survived or if there are survivors, that will only become clear. But I would imagine that will be somewhat -- somewhat miraculous.
SANDOVAL: Richard, that critical detail that you mentioned of the short-lived duration of this flight, minutes, if not perhaps even seconds as we wait to learn more, what does that tell you about the possibilities that investigators will explore down the line? To be clear, we still don't -- we cannot even begin to imagine what may have led to this, but what are those questions that investigators will begin to ask themselves in the moments ahead?
QUEST: OK. Let's put them on the table. You know, the plane gets to its flying speed. Pilot, it's a Boeing, so it pulls back on the -- the yoke and the plane goes into the air. Now, if you're at the right speed and you have flying speed, the plane will just continue to climb out unless there has been a missetting on the flaps. But you see, the difference here, the difference here in this scenario is we are talking about a very modern jetliner, one of the most modern.
So a lot of the, quote, mistakes or errors in terms of plane settings that might have happened in future or in previous years, really don't apply to the same extent because the plane will tell you if it's not set correctly. The plane has enough internal systems to know if something is wrong. And that, of course, then takes us into the whole area of what else might have caused it.
Planes do not fall out of the sky. They take off, they get into the air. This has two engines, powerful, powerful engines. I'm not familiar just at the moment with exactly which ones. I think they're Rolls-Royce on the Air India 78 Dreamliner fleet, but I'd need to check that. But certainly, the aircraft is absolutely able to take off at the most critical moment of flight on one engine.
[07:35:23]
So you're looking at what causes the plane to suddenly lose altitude at this vital moment when it's just lifting off, off to the ground or just, you know, a few miles from the airport. On the other side, the black boxes, they will be recovered relatively quickly and -- and then all will become clear, I expect, quite quickly.
Air India, let's talk about Air India. It's undergoing the most massive transformation under the new CEO, Campbell Wilson, who came from Singapore Airlines. They are refurbishing the fleet. It's nose to tail, in a sense, and it's been going extremely successfully. In terms of the history of the airline and its safety record, that's not so good. It's not dreadful, but it's certainly not up there with other leading airlines and not where it should be.
They've had some high-profile incidents over the last 30 or 40 years, which, you know, is it a safe airline? Yes. But have there been issues? Yes, as well.
SANDOVAL: An incident of this nature, Richard, and it goes without saying, it certainly will. What will it do, I should ask -- I should say, to this radical airline transformation plan that -- that we heard from the CEO?
QUEST: Well, you know, look, when I was -- let me give you an example, when I was at the Air India training center only last week, they have, in the training center, something I've not seen before, they have an exhibition center of their previous crashes, including the one that ran off the runway, including the Air India 747 that blew up over the Atlantic. That was a bomb in that case.
And when I asked Campbell Wilson why, you know, we were talking before the interview, I said, why? He says, because we want to remind everybody what happens. You know, this is an important part of a safety culture, to remind people what happens when it goes wrong. So Air India is absolutely aware of the safety culture that is required.
Certainly all the new management that has come into the airline in the last few years with Campbell is well aware, and this is very much a focus and a priority within them. So that's even more puzzling that will factor in to this particular incident, because it's not as if a safety culture wasn't on the agenda at Air India over the last year or two. It's been way up there in management terms, way up there in terms of training, and they've been focusing on it quite considerably, which is why this incident will be of great interest and concern, obviously, that it should have happened in such a way.
SANDOVAL: Let's go back to the investigation and the evidence gathering that's going to be happening right now on the ground, Richard. The fact that this happened not over an ocean, but instead in a very busy metropolitan area, and you mentioned the black boxes, hopefully tracking those down very soon. How does the location of this incident potentially offer an advantage to investigators that will seek to put this puzzle together?
QUEST: Yes, I'm not being flippant when I say this, but this will be straightforward in a sense, because there wasn't altitude. Yes, there's a very vicious fire, but the boxes are designed to -- to cope with that, the boxes that were at the back of the aircraft. There will be -- so you don't have the boxes underwater, you don't have them being hit by forces. You have a -- you have a very violent crash, and that's going to -- but the boxes should be retrieved once they've ensured that there are no survivors and that they've made sure that the actual debris and smoldering ruins or wreckage is safe.
Then they will find the boxes. And probably, it'll be an interesting question. I'm not familiar whether India has the capability to read out the telemetry from the black boxes. I suspect they do, but if they don't, the boxes would be sent somewhere, either Singapore or they would be sent to London or -- or even to the States, where they would be read out, because down -- downloading the data from the black boxes is extremely challenging, detailed, and if there is any suggestion that the data is corrupted, and I mean that in a technical sense, not in a man-made sense, but if it's been corrupted in any sense, you have to have very specialized equipment to retrieve that data, and there's not that many centers around the world that can do it.
[07:40:20]
I'm not familiar whether India does have that capability. Somebody who knows that will let me know in the hours ahead.
SANDOVAL: Richard, if casualties or fatalities are confirmed in the minutes or hours ahead here, what does that mean for the Boeing 787? We know going back decades, it had previous issues that had been addressed. As you point out, this is a large and extremely popular aircraft for airlines around the world. What are some of those questions that the airline industry will be facing when it comes to this aircraft as we learn more about what may have led to this incident in particular?
QUEST: OK. As we -- as you and I are talking now, it means nothing. It would be absolutely premature, irresponsible, that there is no reason that anybody would question the aircraft or the airliner itself.
As we get more information about it, then obviously different factors come into play. But this aircraft, the 787 Dreamliner, is, I know we have used this phrase, the workhorse, but, you know, this airline -- this -- this aircraft was designed specifically for these sorts of routes, known as long, skinny routes. Ahmedabad to Birmingham.
So here you have a route that would not be able to sustain a 3, 400- seat 777, certainly not an 838 or anything like that. But you have these aircraft like the 350, like the 787, that carries 250 to 300 passengers at much lower, 20 percent lower fuel burn and cost. And this aircraft was designed for these routes, that it's opened up. And indeed, this particular route, probably, I'd need to look at the history of it, but my guess is that it was either opened up with the 78 or it's become profitable with the 78 because it's fuel burn and it's running costs and its composite fuselage make it that much more attractive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Some insight there from Richard Quest just before he was about to board a flight. I do want to bring you up to speed if you're just joining us now on the breaking news that we are following, of course, out of India.
An Air India jet, this was Air India Flight 171, crashing shortly after takeoff from the western city of Ahmedabad, this happening just about three hours ago. The airline says there were 242 passengers and crew members on board that Boeing 787 Dreamliner. It was on route to London's Gatwick Airport.
The country's Director General of Aviation says the flight itself departed 1:39 p.m. local time. It was less than a minute later that it gave a mayday call to air traffic control before the jet fell to the ground just outside of the airport's perimeter in a fairly dense neighborhood. Flights have been suspended temporarily at the airport.
Understandably, Boeing, for its part, says it is aware of the incident and is working to gather more details. I'm joined now by Marco Chan. He's a senior lecturer in aviation operations at Buckinghamshire New University, joining us from Bicester, England.
Marco, it's good to have you with us. We are learning, you know, little details, understandably, as they come out. We are also seeing a lot from the images that we're getting from the ground. In this moment, just a few hours, of course, after this tragedy has taken place, how helpful is it for investigators as they try to piece this together to have more of that information available to them in this moment from the ground and even these various angles of the plane, perhaps, from video taken by bystanders?
CHAN: Excellent questions. I think the videos and images will actually be more helpful with the general public for them to get more information or insights on what happened initially. Now, for the investigators, I can assure you they won't just rely on those images and videos.
I think a number of experts have already come on and mentioned the fact that they need to identify and locate the black boxes, the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder. This would be crucial data, something they would want to rely on in an investigation. Now, hopefully, the investigators, after perhaps the passengers or the residents in a nearby area, when they have recovered from the injuries, they can interview them as well as part of the investigation.
HILL: Yes, absolutely. As you mentioned, those critical black boxes. So, of course, the flight data recorder, the cockpit voice recorder in the tail of the plane. We also have seen images from the ground of what appeared to be the tail of the plane in a building in that residential area, which one would hope would mean that as tragic as all of that is and those images, it would provide more immediate access of course to those black boxes and to that information.
[07:45:13]
The fact that it was so quickly after takeoff, less than a minute, that this may be a call went through that the plane went down. Give us an idea of what specifically those two -- those two black boxes could provide in terms of the initial information about what led to that mayday call.
CHAN: I think the very first point, if you look at the cockpit voice recorder, it will record the conversations within the cockpit and the conversation with the air traffic controllers as well. Investigators would want to understand what conversations have taken place between the pilots. What actions have been done? When have they figured out there was a failure or were they reacting to it? And why did they decide to broadcast a mayday call?
Now, a mayday call is usually when there is imminent danger. It is highly unusual for a mayday call to be issued that close to the ground. Now, the majority of the time, the pilot's number one priority is to fly the plane. So if it isn't flying properly, I think they will try to make sure the plane can get back to the original flight path then issue a mayday call.
If they were forced to make a mayday call that early, we would want to know, or investigators would want to know what catastrophe was happening at the time. Flight data recorder would also be essential. What inputs were made in the flight controls or by the autopilots? More importantly, now, there are several experts, or as we can see on the videos, there is a possibility where the slats and flaps of the wings weren't configured correctly.
Now, I must admit, the resolution of the video would be a little bit difficult for me to verify that. But if that were the case, the investigators would want to understand whether that procedure for takeoff were done correctly. Also, at which point off the runway did the plane take off from? Did they take advantage of the full runway length or were they taken off from the intersection off the runway, which can happen due to congestion at an airport?
So that -- those are the questions investigators would hopefully have an answer to.
HILL: And they'll be looking, obviously, to -- to immediately secure this area around the crash site in addition to helping any victims in the area. We do have some images of that site. There will be so much that will be looked into in terms of where the debris is, what that debris field looks like, how broad it is. What specifically will investigators be doing just in these initial moments to secure some of that information, Marco? CHAN: No, exactly. They would want to examine the debris exactly like you mentioned right after they retrieved the black boxes. They would want to understand, based on the scattering of the debris, how huge of an impact did they have and how quickly was the plane falling off out of the sky at that point. So these are the things they would want to understand.
They would also probably want to understand if there was anything, any physical damage to the engine prior to that impact, if they can identify that from the debris. So these are the things they will look at very initially.
HILL: And just really quickly, Marco, before I let you go, in terms of that safety check that is done by all pilots, you know, before they start taxiing out on that runway, before they are cleared for takeoff, these are all elements, you know, what you're mentioning in terms of potential issues with -- with the flaps, how those are set prior to takeoff, potential issues with the engine.
This is all part of that checklist that would be -- that would be done each time prior to even leaving the gate.
CHAN: No, indeed. So the checklists are there to ensure these steps are done correctly, to prompt the pilots to check the procedures have been done correctly. Now, at this point, we don't want to assume that things haven't been done correctly. We would want to look at the report. But quite rightly, in a lot of modern aircraft, there is, for example, the Airbus that I used to operate, that we have a takeoff configuration button just to ensure the plane is at the right configuration.
At the very least, the slats and flaps have been extended. So at the press of a button, it would tell you if something isn't right, you should really check. And then we also have a paper or digital checklist, depending on the aircraft type, to then read out the -- the actions and then to respond by the pilot monitoring.
So we have a lot of redundancies, a lot of monitoring, just to ensure things are done correctly. So we would want to know, as general public as well, and the investigators, to understand what was the course of the incident.
HILL: Yes. Absolutely. Marco, really appreciate your insight, your expertise this hour. Thank you.
I also want to bring in my colleague, Salma Abdelaziz in London, who's tracking more of these developments for us. Salma, I'm not sure if you can hear me, it's -- it's Erica in New York.
[07:50:02]
ABDELAZIZ: Hi, Erica. I apologize. We were just getting more updates. So forgive me, because, you know, with these breaking news situations, we continue to get those updates. So I just heard from a producer in our ear that another help center has been set up here in London at Gatwick Airport. So that's where this plane was supposed to land at about 6:30 local time. And I want to remind our viewers of just how strong of an Indian diaspora there is here in England, and particularly here in London. So you can imagine that there are families waiting for answers here.
We'd also heard earlier from the U.K.'s foreign minister, David Lammy, who said he'd open up channels of communication with India to find out more about 53 nationals. So of those 242 souls on board that flight, 53 were British nationals. So the U.K. government, of course, mobilizing to find out more in a help center now set up at Gatwick.
If you don't mind, I just want to run through the timeline of what happened here, because I know we've been speaking to experts and bringing in a lot of news. So let's just take a bird's eye view for a moment of what we know at this time. We understand that the flight was to take off from Ahmedabad International Airport at about 1:38 local time, less than a minute, essentially upon departure.
The plane crashed. It was only at an altitude of about 625 feet, but according to flight tracking radar, it dropped at a rate of 475 feet per minute. So a very quick crash. But even in that short time, a mayday call was made by pilots. We've now cleared social media video that shows that moment of impact where you see this plane when it should have been going upwards, going downwards, and then a huge fireball of an explosion.
And you're also looking at what remains, a bit of the plane there, then embedded into buildings right near this airport in Ahmedabad. The earth around it absolutely scorched. You've got burned buildings, emergency crews trying to put out fires, luggage found among the debris. It feels like now that we have these images, we are piecing together minute by minute what happened in this explosive and tragic crash, but we still don't have the key answer, of course, which is what happened to those 242 souls on board.
There's a multilayered effort now taking place to answer that question. Indian authorities say they're providing help and support to those crew members. We've also heard from the airliner Air India, which says it's setting up an emergency help desk for families.
You have multiple countries, of course, reaching out to Indian authorities, but all eyes and all the focus right now will be on that crash site and answering that question for those who now for hours have been wondering what has happened to my loved one.
HILL: Absolutely, Salma, really appreciate it. Thank you so much. We'll continue to check in with you as more of those developments are coming in. I also want to get you a little bit more of what we're learning from some of our aviation experts. Analyst Jeffrey Thomas joined my colleague Polo Sandoval just a short time ago, talking about that video footage that has been coming in and some of the questions that those videos raise. Here's part of their conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEOFFREY THOMAS, AVIATION EXPERT: This is a Boeing 787. This will be the first accident involving a 787 and it just celebrated a billion passengers carried safely over 11 years. Now, I've seen the vision of the aircraft descending before it impacted the ground and it didn't seem to be in distress except that it was descending and one wonders whether it had a multiple dual engine failure, maybe from a major bird strike of -- a major bird strike of some kind because it just sank down and impacted the ground in a fireball.
So, terribly, terribly tragic and there doesn't, at this stage, appear to be any particular cause. All we can do is possibly suggest maybe a multiple bird strike, but beyond that, there's no clue.
SANDOVAL: Yes, to be clear, authorities haven't said any, haven't made clear any possible suspicions here, but let's -- let's dive deeper --
THOMAS: Sure.
SANDOVAL: -- into the issue of the kind of aircraft here. As you point out, there was a, from many accounts, a Boeing 787. I actually went on to Air India just a short while ago just to see the same flight number a week from now also serviced on the same sort of aircraft.
So, it's quite likely that, as you point out, that that, in fact, was the plane involved. A little bit of the history of this aircraft, any potential issues going back decades for a plane that many people know as the Dreamliner?
THOMAS: Look, it did have, very early on, it did have a battery issue and that was fixed. This is the new lithium batteries. It was fixed and this was very early on in the first year of service. Since then, it's basically had a flawless record and it has, up until this -- up until today, no passenger has been lost on a Boeing 787. So, it's an outstanding airplane.
[07:55:19]
There's over 1,000 of them flying and it's becoming, you know, along with the Boeing 777 and the Airbus A350, the backbone of long-range international operations and you wouldn't even think twice about getting on board a 787 the same way you wouldn't think twice about getting on board a 777 or an A350. They're all of them basically, you know, fantastic airplanes with great safety records, if not perfect safety records.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Earlier, Polo also spoke with aeronautical engineer Mark Pierotti about the type of aircraft specifically that 787 Dreamliner. Here's a little bit more about that aircraft.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARK PIEROTTI, AERONAUTICAL ENGINEER: Well, it's a 787-8, I think it's the Dash 8 series that Air India have. And they have around about 33 of them in their fleet. And they're -- they're an average of about nine years old. The aircraft first came into service with Air India around about 2012. So Air India are experienced in flying the 787. And it has a General Electric's GEX engines installed, rather than the Rolls-Royce. So it's a very modern aircraft. The 787 is a fully composite aircraft. It's a very up-to-date engineered aircraft, very well built, has been flying very successfully since its introduction. So it's an excellent aircraft, excellent pedigree. Now it's flown by two crews, a pilot and a co-pilot.
And the takeoff and the landing are the critical times of flight, more than any other time of flight. So that is when things can get difficult at takeoff and at landing. So this seems that this accident was at takeoff. And we do see accidents around the world at takeoff.
But we haven't seen such an accident with a 787. So it's quite new for this aircraft to experience such an event.
SANDOVAL: And on that last -- on that last point, Dr. Pierotti, I'm wondering if you could expand on that. This is a very popular aircraft. Again, there's no indication at this point that this may have had anything to do with the plane itself, because we're still waiting to learn more.
But what are airlines around the world going to be asking themselves, especially those airlines, which are many that operate and that have the 787 in their fleet?
PIEROTTI: Well, what we do in the airline world and aviation is when we have an accident, we learn from it as quickly as we can. And the accident investigation board take over. Usually it's the Civil Aviation Authority of the -- of the registration of the aircraft. In this case, it's India, along with the manufacturer.
In this case, it's Boeing and the engine manufacturer, in this case, it's General Electric. The -- the country of type certificate, which is the Americans, the FAA often get involved as well. So a group is made up for the investigation from these different professional organizations. And then they'll determine very quickly what the next actions will be.
Sometimes it's grounding the fleet. Sometimes it's not. It depends on what they feel is the root cause of this accident. And we can't see anything until we get to the root cause. Takeoff is essentially the time of flight. You're still on the ground. The airport and the runway is surrounded by birds, by foreign objects, and by other things.
And so it's a very critical time when the aircraft is performing. It's spooling up. It's creating lift on the wings. It's creating forward thrust. So it's a very sensitive time at takeoff. So takeoff and landing are the two likely times that we can have incidents. But we shouldn't see what it is just now until the accident investigators --
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: And so if you're just joining us, I do want to bring you up to speed here on the breaking news that we're following at this hour. An Air India passenger plane carrying 242 passengers and crew crashing shortly after takeoff in western India. So it took off from the airport of Ahmedabad. You see rescue workers here in the area crashing in a dense river residential area just outside of the airport.
Reporters on the ground being told by a senior police official that among the buildings hit was a doctor's hostel. Also that about 70 to 80 percent of that area has already been cleared in just the last few hours here since the crash. So as we talk about this, as I noted, 242 passengers and crew on board, 169 Indian nationals.
[07:59:49]
BERMAN: Breaking news this morning. We're just getting new details about the Air India plane that crashed less than a minute after taking off from an airport in western India. The plane had just left the Ahmedabad Airport heading to London Gatwick with 242 passengers and crew on board.
