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CNN Live Event/Special
CNN Saturday Morning Table for Five. Trump's Job Approval Plummets Nearly One Year Into Office; Trump Underwater On Economy, Deportations, Power, Foreign Policy; Majority Of Americans Call Trump's First Year A Failure. Trump Supports Iranian Protesters, But Slams Protests At Home; Trump: "May Be Forced" On Insurrection Act If Protests Continue; Trump Says United States "Shouldn't Even Have Election" At Midterms. Aired 7-8a ET
Aired January 17, 2026 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[07:00:32]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Today, it was supposed to be the golden age, but the report card for Donald Trump's first year is very dark.
Plus, why is the president supporting protests in Iran, but not here at home?
GOV. TIM WALZ, (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And at this occupation, you've done enough.
PHILLIP (voice over): Also, Trump, once again, floats canceling the Midterm Elections.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president was simply joking.
PHILLIP (voice over): And it's one of the right's favorite conspiracies.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They want them to vote because they are going to vote for the Democrats.
PHILLIP (voice over): But as the Trump administration hunts for immigrants voting illegally, the search is coming up empty.
Here in studio, Chuck Rocha, Alyssa Farah Griffin, Joe Borelli, and Solomon Jones.
It's the weekend. Join the conversation at a TABLE FOR FIVE.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Hello, everyone. I'm Abby Phillip. Donald Trump, he is losing his grip on his popularity, on his policies, his performance, his plans were lack thereof, he is completely under water.
New CNN polls paint a dark picture of his second term, a year in, where a majority of Americans say that his presidency has been a failure so far. Most say that he is focused on the wrong priorities. Most view the economy negatively, and they say that Trump has made it worse.
Most don't think that he has the stamina to be president, and they are not proud of him, and most think that he is gone too far with his power.
And if you look even deeper, other polls this week say the majority of Americans don't like his ICE operations. They don't like his actions in Venezuela, his threats to Iran, nor do they like his plans to take over Greenland.
But instead of changing his direction, he is doubling down on all of it. He claims that the affordability crisis is a hoax, and he is sending more agents into American cities. He continues to bomb boats to threaten NATO allies, to declare himself president of Venezuela and its oil, and he is apparently baffled by all the backlash to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I wish you could explain to me what the hell is going on with the mind of the public, because we have a -- we have the right policy. They don't, they have horrible policy.
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PHILLIP: What on earth is going on with the mind of the public, Joe Borelli? I mean, that seems like the wrong attitude to have going into the Midterms.
JOE BORELLI, FORMER COUNCIL MEMBER, NEW YORK CITY: Yes, but let's put this poll in a little bit of a historic content. Sometimes, I don't think people review the cross tabs from the last poll. Last time CNN/SSRS did this poll back last quarter, this is actually a two-point improvement from his approval rating, then. This is actually a two- point decrease in his disapproval rating.
And since July of this year, he has consistently been, according to Real Clear Politics average, he has consistently been polling better than Barack Obama and George Bush at this point in their first term.
So, is this poll great? Yes, it's not great. Is this poll an outlier? It might be. Does Donald Trump have to really consider some messaging going to the Midterms? Absolutely.
And I think that's why we saw, you know, that excerpt of his speech was taken from his address to the Republican House delegation, where he basically said, hey, we need to do a better job messaging. PHILLIP: That don't get me wrong. I don't know. Voters are not -- they are not looking back three months and being like, well, this is a two- point uptick. The overall sentiment is overwhelmingly negative. And I -- it just feels to me like, if you are in the business of electoral politics, which you are, you don't take that and say, well, it was a little bit -- it was two ticks higher a couple months ago. It's a directional thing. Where is this headed?
CHUCK ROCHA, PODCAST CO-HOST, "THE LATINO VOTE": Look, Joe is right. Polls can be a little bit left, a little bit right. They can be a little bit off, or they can be just right. They are normally not just right. But people voting, you can't deny. And in the last 23 special elections, and elections we just had in Virginia and New Jersey just a few months ago, Democrats have been over performing because folks are not happy.
I'm one of the few Democrats who gave Donald Trump credit when he was talking to people about lowering their prices, while Joe Biden was being fleckless. But now, those people who gave him a shot are really mad. And in eight polls, these elections have actually showed one election after another. There's been an over performance one after another. And as we head into a Midterm, history is not on the Republican side.
SOLOMON JONES, AWARD WINNING COLUMNIST, PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER: No, it's not. And usually, the party in power loses seats in a Midterm Election anyway. But the A.P. poll that just came out yesterday, Republicans, only 16 percent of Republicans said that the Trump administration was going in the right direction in terms of addressing costs.
[07:05:05]
You know, we have to go to the store. You know, when I go to the store, I buy some stuff, and it's a bag of stuff, and it's, you know, $100. Nobody can afford that. And so, with Trump focused on tariffs., with Trump focused on Venezuela, with Trump focused on Iran and all of these other things, he said, America first. What happened to that?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, listen, Trump was better at campaigning on the issues that American voters cared about. That's why he won. It's why he won the popular vote,
JONES: That's right.
GRIFFIN: Affordability, the border crisis. It's the execution that's been lacking. And I kind of attribute it to two things. I think there are a lot of voters who thought that he was going to govern very similar to his first term, but then, he rolled out this sweeping tariff regiment, which has not improved the economy. It's made the cost of many things go up. It's made the manufacturing sector, which he promised to bring back, actually continue to suffer. And the main economic sectors that you see doing really well are basically big tech at this point. That's not -- that's not the America first that he was running on. And then, on immigration. If I were still advising Donald Trump, I would say, every time you speak say, I solved the border crisis on day one, there is a 50-year low of border crossings. But instead, he wants the shock and awe of people in city streets, grabbing migrants, deporting people, trying to get the highest record number of deportations in American history. And that's something that the American voters are far more split on than the issue of securing the border.
So, it's he gets what the problems our people care about, but the execution the second term is very, very different than, I think, what voters expected.
PHILLIP: Let me just play what Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins was on T.V. this week, and she made these comments that she is been pilloried for ever since. Listen.
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BROOKE ROLLINS, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE: We have run over a thousand simulations, it can cost around $3 a meal for a piece of chicken, a piece of broccoli, you know, corn tortilla, and one other thing. And so, there is a way to do this that actually will save the average American consumer money.
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JONES: Out of touch.
PHILLIP: That didn't go over very well.
JONES: Yes. If you --
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PHILLIP: A tortilla and a piece of chicken. It's not the American Dream.
BORELLI: That's my breakfast (INAUDIBLE). Some of us ahead of this morning.
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ROCHA: Somebody should tell her she shouldn't say tortillas a good way to get fired over at the administration.
But anyway, let me get serious. When we do focus groups with voters, we've been really trying to figure out what these Trump voters are thinking. Are they really that mad? Is this just a messed-up poll?
PHILLIP: Are they mad at all?
ROCHA: Yes. That's what I'm getting at, is there is a group of them that have an A.I. picture of him with abs on the wall, I'm not talking about them. They love him. They will always love him.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: Never matter.
BORELLI: He still has 90 percent near consistent in almost every single poll amongst the Republican voters.
(CROSSTALK)
ROCHA: Absolutely. And we are fanning this in his focus group as well.
BORELLI: And you know, low propensity elections is the basis what's going to matter more.
(CROSSTALK)
ROCHA: Joe is going to make a point for me here. That, that is, the midterms are about turnout.
PHILLIP: Yes.
ROCHA: Who do you motivate to turn out? Democrats, and I hate to say this, but have gotten to be the party of more educated, more-higher information, and they turn out at higher rates.
When I was a kid in Texas, we weren't that party. Now, we are. That's why I said the history looks bad for the Midterms.
PHILLIP: Yes, but also, Republicans love Trump, but Trump, when he's not on the ballot, has a harder time turning them out. He's also done a good job of bringing out new low propensity voters, and those people are also not likely to come out.
Let me just also play -- well, this is what Ben Shapiro is his prediction. He is not, you know, a Joe Biden lover, but here is his prediction for what he thinks is going to happen.
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GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Republicans have no chance in this Midterm. Right?
BEN SHAPIRO, HOST, THE BEN SHAPIRO SHOW: I think that they are in for a world of hurt right now in the Midterms. I mean, they are the -- they are the incumbent party, they have a bare majority.
NEWSOM: Yes.
SHAPIRO: That alone would put them behind the eight ball.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: And on top of that, 58 percent of Americans say the Trump first year of his second term has been a failure -- a failure.
BORELLI: Look, you conceded the point that Trump is wildly popular with the -- within the Republican Party. I made the point at this table a couple of weeks ago, where, as strange as it may seem to some, the solution to the Republican problems is actually getting Trump on message in more seats. He is the largest vote getter in the Republican Party. We have a superstar. The Democratic Party has no superstar. We have a superstar.
Having Trump on the ballot with the right messaging, addressing the economy, talking about healthcare. In that poll, healthcare actually started trickling up as one of the top issues for Republicans.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Yes. But premiums are going to --
BORELLI: That -- that's in it kills you.
PHILLIP: If premiums double which they already are, and Republicans continue to do nothing about it that's going to be a problem. I mean, I think, the love of Trump among Republicans does not seem like enough to solve this problem.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: Well, (INAUDIBLE)
PHILLIP: Because the real hurt that he's experiencing in the poll numbers is with independents who are swinging away from him. Although, those gains with Hispanic voters, maybe some black voters, those have disappeared.
GRIFFIN: Right.
PHILLIP: Disappeared.
GRIFFIN: And listen, the generic ballot for Democrats is plus 14 right now. So, I think, I think, you can concede the House at this point. I don't think anyone who is actually following the Midterms thinks that the Republicans have a chance of keeping the House.
The Senate's a different animal. There is -- there is already enough of a lead the way that the states have changed in recent years. I don't know that I think I'm going to see the balance of power shift there.
[07:10:02]
But I actually see a little differently than you do. I think it's better if Donald Trump stays off the campaign trail ahead of the midterms. He tends to lift others when he is on the ballot, but this is where you need other surrogates out who are better at staying on message.
Affordability is a hoax is not going to help. Flipping off a factory worker, and when you're at a plant. That's just begging to be in a democratic ad. If we can get -- if they can find, identify the people in the House and the Senate who are the best messengers of whatever Republicans want to be pushing going forward, that's actually safer.
I remember when I worked for Pence in the 2018 Midterms, members of Congress wanted Pence to show up more than they wanted Trump to. He was a better get because he was on message and focus.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Speaking about flipping off that worker, Joe, I mean, to Alyssa's point, that might not show up in some ads, was it right to suspend him for the company to suspend him?
BORELLI: No, it wasn't. I mean, you -- look, you can't screen the audience and make them keep, you know, keep to themselves. Right? This is -- this is something happens.
I do support President Trump, flipping the guy off. Mayor Eric Adams told someone to go f themselves on a plane the other day.
As a former elected official who gets told to, you know, a lot of times what people think of me, I am more than happy to allow elected officials to have a little bit of liberalism when they tell people to go scratch.
PHILLIP: I guess -- I guess that goes back --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Mayor Eric Adams isn't running again, though. And Trump is the head of a party that's going up to the Midterm.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: He is -- Trump -- is Trump start running again either?
BORELLI: You never -- you will never convince me on this.
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GRIFFIN: By the way, Trump -- but Trump voters love it, just like -- yes, Trump voters did love it. Just --
JONES: Yes, right.
GRIFFIN: Like, if you are with him, you think it's amazing.
BORELLI: But, wait. Who is -- who is more Republican -- more popular right now, though? Generic Republicans or generic Democrats? Democrats are still underwater in every poll, worse than Republicans.
ROCHA: Does he doing --
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JONES: How they during the last elections, though? Then, and I think that's the indication of what's going to happen in midterms. The Democrats cleaned up in the last elections. I mean, in places where they never win, Mississippi, Georgia, you know, the governorships all across the country.
And with the way things are headed and with Trump clearly not caring about what the public has to say, I think that they are in for a world of hurt. I agree with that Republican (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
ROCHA: This week, the nonpartisan Cook Political Report moved 15 races to more democratic. I mean, it just keeps moving that way.
PHILLIP: Yes. All right, next for us, the president promises support for the Iranian protesters, but threatens the ones in Minneapolis. We'll debate why that might be.
Also, for someone who is supposedly just kidding about canceling the midterms, the president sure talks a lot about it.
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[07:17:06]
PHILLIP: Why is it that it seems like Donald Trump supports protesters in Iran, but not protests here at home? After the killings of thousands of anti-government protesters in Iran, the president urged them to keep fighting, to even take over their institutions, because America's help was on the way.
But for protesters in Minneapolis, and frankly, all over the years, for the protests against his actions, he is taken a different tone, threatening everything from insurrection act to jail time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think it's a joke. I looked at the people. They are not representative of this country.
For those people that want to protest, they are going to be met with very big force. This is people that hate our country.
We see other cities are gearing up, and these people are agitators. They are paid, they are professionals, they are insurrectionists, they are troublemakers.
These protesters, and many should be arrested because these are professional agitators. These are professional anarchists. These are people that hate our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Alyssa, what a mixed message.
GRIFFIN: The split screen is very stark. There are vastly different situations, I do want to underscore that what's happening in Iran, people who are fighting for their basic freedoms. And listen, Donald Trump has been a hard liner on Iran, despite some pulling within the MAGA base to go the other direction. And I suspect that he is hearing from people like Secretary Rubio and others that this could be a time for choosing moment for him. If his administration firmly stands behind the Iranian people, this could be a moment where also we know he wants the Nobel Peace Prize. He could get the Nobel Peace Prize if he comes in in a targeted way and supports the Iranian protesters.
Here at home, it speaks to what the broader conversation we are having where there seems to be a disconnect that he is the president for all Americans, and a lot of Americans. In fact, the vast majority right now are simply unhappy. And that the way that ISIS conducting itself, you can support border security, you could support criminal, undocumented migrants being removed from this country, but how it's done matters. And I just don't feel like that message is getting through to him in this moment.
ROCHA: But he is always going to revert back to law and order. That's where he's the most comfortable as a political messenger.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Yes.
ROCHA: That's where he wants to be talking about. He don't talk about groceries. He don't want to talk about folks getting shot by ICE. But he wants to talk about everything through the lens of that, because that's good for him when he's trying to motivate his base in a midterm to get out. And so, that's what -- they know, what they are doing, and that's what they are doing.
PHILLIP: But isn't there a risk? Just like we were talking in the last segment. We do focus a lot on Trump's base and how much they love him and whether they are going to come out. But you cannot win an election just with the base.
ROCHA: That's right.
PHILLIP: It is just not possible.
And we have seen this time and time again. We actually saw this in 2020. We saw it with the numbers around the reaction to the No Kings protest. Americans don't like presidents threatening to use force on people who disagree with them. That is not a thing.
Look, nobody likes violence in the streets, but they don't like the president being like, well, you just shoot them.
[07:20:05]
Like he did in 2020. That's a risk.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: Abby, nobody likes violence -- nobody likes violence in the street. Should I read the quotes from Tim Walz, Ilhan Omar, Keith Ellison? (CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I'm talking about -- hold on.
BORELLI: About what they said about the (INAUDIBLE) country?
PHILLIP: I am talking about voters. I am talking about -- especially, independent voters, who are the ones who decide elections.
The point I'm making is not about a Democrat versus Republican thing. It's about what does the median voter really think about all of this? And is it actually helpful to Trump to take a hard line against people who just are taking to the streets because they disagree with him?
BORELLI: I think the majority of Americans, obviously, the majority of Trump's base, I think we can all stipulate that point. The majority of Americans look at the two sides rioting in Minnesota, and I think most of them identify with law enforcement. I think that's 100 percent true. I think --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, you think that, but the polling shows otherwise.
BORELLI: Again, if you know, the only thing.
PHILLIP: That's the only thing I would say about that, is that there, the data doesn't support what you just said.
BORELLI: If you are unhappy with it, if people are unhappy with the scenes of violence, with the scenes of rioting in Minnesota, they should ask why the governor of the state is calling law enforcement officers a modern-day Gestapo. That's an insulting and embarrassing thing to say about law enforcement officers who are acting within their duty as federal law enforcement officers enforcing laws.
I mean, do you think there are gestapos? Anyone here at this table think they were Gestapo?
JONES: That's what they look like, though. And so --
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: Joe Rogan apparently think so.
JONES: Exactly.
PHILLIP: Can I just see -- before you jump in, I just want to -- just to your point. You were talking about this earlier this week.
JONES: Yes.
PHILLIP: Joe Rogan is not a red headed, green haired, you know, protester in the street. He described it as Gestapo. So, it's -- I -- it would be a mistake, it seems to me, for Republicans to put blinders on about this. It's not being viewed the way that the political messaging would like it to be viewed.
JONES: Right. I think that people care about their pocketbooks. You can talk about immigration, you could talk about Greenland, you could talk about Venezuela.
If people can't afford groceries at the store, they are going to vote in the other direction. It's the economy, stupid, in the words of a great political commentator. That's what it is. It's the economy. That's exactly what it is. And so, when you look at Donald Trump talking about the Insurrection Act, the first thing I think about is, man, when there was a real insurrection, you didn't invoke the Insurrection Act. Why are you talking about it now? Oh, because they are against you.
I just think it's the wrong messaging for him, but it's great messaging for Democrat.
GRIFFIN: Can I also think it gets back to my point that, like he is often right on identifying the problem people care about. Law and order is a winning message for Donald Trump. It has helped him every time he's been on the ballot. But the execution.
I think a lot of people are looking at what's happening in Minneapolis, and they are feeling like, I don't know if this would be happening if Trump wasn't president. I think there would have been a way that the federal law enforcement, ICE, and the state officials would have coordinated, they would have worked together, and it wouldn't be about getting the flashy, grabby moment.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: But these states have laws against specifically that, passed by Democrats.
GRIFFIN: But -- that is true, and I don't support sanctuary cities, and it does make the whole thing more convoluted. But there is this sense that there is a bit of chaos in American streets that could have been avoided if we had leaders who were willing to work together.
ROCHA: But you just said, everybody just agreed that he takes all the oxygen in the room, no matter who this little person over here, or this governor or this person said, whatever. Donald Trump gets blamed for it, because in the last poll that this network did, 76 percent of people said they had actually seen that video.
It's unlike some other thing, or somebody that roughed somebody up, or somebody that threw a rock. All bad things. But they know the Trump thing. They know this a woman got shot in the face thing, because it was a huge thing.
To your point, like, if he was just talking about shutting down the border and saying, I am working every day to take the price of ground beef down, he would -- Democrats would be in a world of hurt.
PHILLIP: Yes, right.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: It's a civil rights movement. Again, when you see things on T.V., it changes people's attitudes. People are seeing what's happening in Minnesota, and it is changing people's attitudes. It's not a good thing for Donald Trump.
GRIFFIN: Look, you know, in addition to the protests at home not being welcome, according to Donald Trump, he also seemed to kind of abandon the Iranian protesters this week as well, which was kind of a puzzling thing. Let's just play what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You urge protesters in Iran earlier this week to keep fighting in the streets. And said that help was on the way. Is help still on the way? Or has your bar for intervention changed?
TRUMP: And you know, Iran canceled the hanging of over 800 people. They were going to hang over 800 people yesterday, and I greatly respect the fact that they canceled them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, look, we don't know all that is coming potentially for Iran, but he did on several occasions. I was just one of them, seem to suggest that despite there being, according to human rights organizations, thousands of people massacred in the streets. The purported cancelation of hangings was enough for him to think that they didn't cross the red line.
BORELLI: Look, I hate to sound like a cliche, but I think there's a lot that we don't know that's happening behind the scenes in Iran. There is no question that this president, or any president, if Kamala Harris would have won, I'm sure she would have been doing something similar.
[07:25:02]
There is no question that the head of the U.S. government is not doing everything he or she can to undermine one of the greatest threats to not just, you know, our safety as Americans, but global safety.
So, I really have to give this administration, and I would, if it was a different administration, a little bit of leeway here to operate, you know, in whatever realm they need to operate in to deliver the toppling of this regime. I think it's too high stakes for us, for our allies in the region, and for anyone else.
ROCHA: Next week will be one year since he is been in office. We have spent time in Iran. We have talked about what he's done in Venezuela. There was Panama. Now, there is Greenland, North Korea, like there is all this internationalist going. And I'm not an international expert, but I know he spent a lot of time on it.
But to your point, brother --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Yes.
ROCHA: Folks still can't afford groceries, and that's the problem with the midterms for the Republic.
BORELLI: Iran doesn't have a nuclear deal. Iran doesn't have a nuclear program.
(CROSSTALK)
ROCHA: Folks can't find Iran on the damn map.
BORELLI: Maduro is not a dictator in Venezuela.
JONES: Come on, man.
BORELLI: Those are wins for Donald Trump.
JONES: Iran is not here, should keep lend a face.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: For all -- for all -- I mean. For all of those things --
JONES: The Trump administration is and I think that's what people see.
PHILLIP: For all those things that you just described. I mean, I think just the mere fact that on all of those things, the economy, immigration, on his foreign affairs, underwater by significant amounts. It seems like in doing all the things, he is not really getting high marks from the American people on any of it, which is not a --
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: His role as commander in chief, up one point, Abby.
PHILLIP: It's not a great sign for the president.
Coming up next, once again, the president floats canceling elections. Is he joking, as the White House says, or is he foreshadowing his intentions? We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:31:00]
PHILLIP: This week, as his presidency party and policies face low approval ratings, Donald Trump, once again, floated the idea of canceling the midterms. In an interview with Reuters, citing historical trends, Trump complained that he could lose control of the House in 2026. "It's some deep psychological thing, but when you win the presidency, you don't win the midterms." Trump said. The president boasted that he had accomplished so much that "when you think of it, we shouldn't even have an election." Now, after facing significant uproar and questions from reporters, the White House is essentially saying nothing to see here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: The president was simply joking. He was saying, we are doing such a great job. We are doing everything the American people thought, maybe we should just keep rolling. But he was speaking facetiously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: What a thing to joke about. And not only that, but it's not the first time that Donald Trump has joked about this. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We should just cancel the election and just give it to Trump. Right? What are we even having it for? What are we having it for? Her policies are so bad.
That you say during --
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): We are already in.
TRUMP: During the war, you can't have elections. So, let me just say, 3-1/2 years from now, so, you mean if we happen to be in a war with somebody, no more elections. So --
We had the worst president. Did the worst job. They had the worst policy. We have to even run against these people? And I won't say cancel the election. They should cancel the election, because the fake news will say he wants the elections canceled. He is a dictator. They always call me a dictator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: If it's a joke, it's a bad joke.
JONES: Yes, it is a bad joke. He's joked about a lot of things that turned out to be true. He joked about putting his name on the Kennedy Center, and now, we look and his name is on the Kennedy Center. That was a joke.
PHILLIP: To be fair.
JONES: Right?
He said that it was just a locker room talk, when he talked about grabbing women. He said a lot of things. He talked about affordability during the campaign, and then, he said affordability is a hoax over and over and over again. And so, the question becomes, you know, is he serious or not? And you know, a lot of truth is set in jest.
GRIFFIN: I largely think he's trolling. And I say that knowing full well that I was in the White House when Mick Mulvaney went out and said, of course he is going to leave after the 2020 election if he loses. And that turned out to not be the case. But I say that now, with regard to the midterms, for a couple of reasons.
Trump is not as emotional about elections when he's not on the ballot. He simply isn't. He doesn't -- he wants Republicans to win. He doesn't want to deal with oversight. He doesn't want to deal with potentially being impeached in the House, as you remembers from his first term.
But there will be Midterm Elections. They will be administered by the states, as they are in the United States. It's not helpful to say. It doesn't -- it doesn't build the brand of democracy and of our values and our institutions here, but I do think he's mostly doing it to troll people.
It would be a very different question if he was, you know, in a first term now, but I also believe he'll leave office at the end of his term.
PHILLIP: There is also, though, his regret that he didn't seize the voting machines to try to steal the last election that he lost.
This is part of -- partly also a story of an unrepentant man who did something that was so transgressive to democracy and never faced consequences for it.
BORELLI: Democrats and Republicans routinely impound voting machines after contested elections, just that notwithstanding.
PHILLIP: I'm sorry, what?
BORELLI: Republicans and Democrats in this statement, you know, if impound through the courts --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: He was -- no, no, no. We are not talking about -- he is saying -- he is saying he wanted the National Guard take the voting machines to find the nonexistent fraud.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: Here is what I'm saying.
Here is what I'm saying. About 10 days ago, you ran the clip, Donald Trump stood in front of members of the House delegation. He did his greatest hitch stick. He made his cheesy joke, some of them funny, some of them not. Right. He said, I'm going to say we are going to cancel the election. And then, the fake news voice, and he said, and the fake news is going to be out there calling me a dictator, telling me what's the only election.
Fast forward almost two weeks, and here we are having a serious conversation about something he clearly joked about. And to Alyssa's point, he is trolling, and we are walking -- it's like we are walking on the lawn, finding the rakes that hit us in the face, because we're having a serious conversation about something he was joking. [07:35:06]
ROCHA: But he knows what he is doing, because if you remember, for those of us who sit around this table for a number of years, talking about these elections, he has always talked about the elections being rigged that he lost. But you heard nothing about rigging of an election when he won.
So, what he's setting the table for is he knows he's going to get an ass whooping in the midterms, and he is setting the table to be like, maybe we shouldn't have these because they are all going to be rigged anyway, and when they lose bigly, that's what's going to be the excuse.
JONES: Yes.
PHILLIP: I don't -- I just also don't get. I mean, I -- you look, I think Trump loves -- does love to troll, I absolutely do.
ROCHA: Absolutely.
PHILLIP: But I also think that he often says things that are in his mind that he actually would do if he had the opportunity to do, just like how he --
(CROSSTALK)
ROCHA: Greenland --
PHILLIP: How he -- how he -- well, the Greenland, that's one example.
But in the lead up to the 2020 election, he said for many, many months that there was -- there were so much fraud, he wasn't sure if he was going to accept the results. And everybody was like, well, he's just leaving all options on the table. Well, guess what? He did not accept the results of the election that actually happened.
JONES: Out of -- out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks that. The Bible says that, right? And it's true.
People say stuff that they mean, and then they say, I'm joking, but you are really trying to see how people receive it. You are really trying to see if people will take it seriously, how people will accept it.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I also think he -- what he tries to do with a lot of things is put things on the table over and over and over again until they start to seem normal to people.
JONES: Yes.
PHILLIP: Because they are hearing it frequently. And that is also, honestly, sorry, it's problematic when it comes to elections. GRIFFIN: Well, I thought it was noteworthy that Karoline Leavitt pushed back so forcefully because she oftentimes will let a trolling her out there and doesn't feel like she needs to clean up things that he says. I think that there are advisers around him who think that this is a bad joke to be telling, and that any sort of telegraphing that there might not be midterms is unhelpful to him, and perhaps, if this is an actual conversation, he is entertaining, is not something that should be entertained.
You very rarely see her pull something back and walk something back that he says as directly as I think she did there.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, maybe she knows that it's not good to say that you are going to cancel elections.
GRIFFIN: Not great.
PHILLIP: I guess that's one positive side of this whole thing.
All right. Next, one of the right's favorite conspiracies just got blown up by the very administration pushing it. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:42:02]
PHILLIP: It's one of MAGA's favorite conspiracies that Democrats let immigrants into the country to vote illegally in order to boost votes for liberals,
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have people voting that are not citizens. They just came in,
People that don't speak our language., they are signing them up to vote.
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Democrats are still trying to register illegal aliens.
TRUMP: These people are trying to get them to vote, and that's why they are allowing them to come into our country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This isn't a mystery. They want illegals to steal elections.
TRUMP: They want them to vote because they are going to vote for the Democrats.
PHILLIP: Donald Trump is so obsessed with this. As I mentioned, he regrets not seizing the voting machines in 2020 and his administration has even gotten states to upload voter records to check. So, now, apparently the hunt for evidence is coming up empty even with those voter records. The New York Times reports that a review shows no widespread fraud of the nearly 50 million registrations checked, just 10,000 cases were opened. Now, that is 0.02 percent. And by open, that might not even be evidence of fraud, it could be that the system that they use mistakenly flagged people who are citizens.
In one case, in Florida, there was a woman who checked and she sent over 100 names in, turned out it was less than a handful that were actually legitimately people who may not have been -- may not have been citizens. She said, there is nothing there.
BORELLI: You just pointed out, though, in that monolog that the federal government is trying to get states to comply with running voter rolls through the saved database. 23 states are suing the DOJ to not comply with that. Of the ones that have, yes, the numbers are not staggering. But say, in Alabama, there was 186 out of 3 million. Not tremendous amount.
But if there isn't a tremendous amount, why won't those states just comply Why are -- why are a hundred --
JONES: Because the Constitution gives the power of elections to the states. It's unconstitutional what they are doing. And so he sued.
BORELLI: Why are -- why are a 148 -- why the 148 Democrats -- why the 148 Democrats vote against a congressional bill to ban non-citizens from voting in D.C. elections? Why can't we just have an open conversation that it's a mainstream part of the Democratic Party to get non-citizens to vote.
There are efforts in New York, I'm actually one of the litigants suing against the New York City law to allow non-citizens to vote.
There is efforts in D.C., there is efforts in Vermont, there is effort to four or five states.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, ca I just -- hold on.
BORELLI: We can't pretend like Democrats are not trying to this.
PHILLIP: I don't want to mix -- I don't want to mix apples and oranges, because local and state elections are a different ball game from federal elections. And it used to be that most conservatives would allow states and localities to determine what they want to do in terms of those local elections. But in terms of federal elections, if you are not a citizen, you can't vote.
And so far, Trump has now been in office, as he spent four years the first time.
[07:45:02]
He is been in office for a full year now. They have not come up with any of this purported evidence of voter fraud.
(CROSSTALK) BORELLI: This (INAUDIBLE) indictments is weakened (PH), New Jersey (PH).
PHILLIP: OK, there are indictments all the time. It is not sufficient to change the course of federal elections.
ROCHA: Let's talk about some facts. And the facts are in a federal election. I used to be an election judge in East Texas, a real judge, Joe.
And you could not come in and go on the voter rolls unless you had an I.D. or you couldn't get the card --
BORELLI: Love it. Yes, I.D. voting.
ROCHA: If you had -- if you didn't have an I.D. to get the registration card, so, you didn't have to show your I.D. at the thing.
BORELLI: Boom, voter I.D.
ROCHA: I mean, they also say that can be a little misconceived about what Joe is saying, I'm not saying you are trying to misconceive folks, but in certain municipalities, where there are legal residents -- in big cities, the city council said, there is legal residents here that pay city taxes, and maybe we should allow, let's vote on it and see to vote in a local election, by no means a federal election. And that's where you saw Republicans take that little piece of what some local municipality has done and said, oh, my God, they're going to let illegals vote outside the elections. That's why this is coming down that way.
JONES: Yes. I think that you are talking about things that could happen, things that might happen, things that people have proposed, as opposed to what's happening right now. And the evidence says that there are not people who are undocumented immigrants voting, you know, in these elections, in any way that could actually impact the election. That's been a myth that they have -- the Republicans have pushed for years.
BORELLI: But we wouldn't need a myth, or we wouldn't need evidence, if we just allowed these 23 states to comply with the federal rule, run the voter rolls through the database.
Again, Alabama --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Why?
BORELLI: 186 people. I don't, you know, I don't think that's massive fraud, but that's enough people.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Yes, yes. I think, Joe.
JONES: Why?
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, why?
GRIFFIN: Well --
PHILLIP: Because you guys are -- you guys are in search of something that there is been no evidence exists in the -- to the degree that you think that it exists. And it's fair for states to say, no, we are not going to hand over information about every single person who is on the voter rolls in our state.
Vote -- votes, elections are federalized for a reason.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: So, do we -- do we think because of cop writes two tickets, there is only two cars speeding down the highway?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Federally, that is what I meant to say. I'm sorry.
BORELLI: Do we think if a cop writes two tickets that only two cars are speeding down the highway? No, those are the ones that just happen to get caught.
Again, there is a solution. We don't have to talk about this hypothetically, we can have the states comply with the deal of this.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, look, well, if so, why in the history of this country have Republicans never been able to prove widespread voter fraud?
BORELLI: You can go on the Heritage Foundation.
PHILLIP: Do you tell me -- yes.
BORELLI: Heritage Foundation vote map 16 -- 1,620 case. Go.
PHILLIP: Actually, that's a -- that's a good -- hold on. That is a good point, because the Heritage Foundation has been searching. They have been looking and they found --
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: 1,000.
PHILLIP: They found --
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: 1,620 case.
PHILLIP: Of the -- of the hundreds of millions of people in this country. How many? BORELLI: 1620.
PHILLIP: OK. Now, I'm not to change an election.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: If I could chime in, because I do have some history in this. When I started working for Mike Pence, he was overseeing the Election Integrity Commission, which was stood up in the White House the first time Donald Trump was elected.
I think a very important piece of this conversation, before I get to my point, there is the difference between state elections, where there are local elections, that in some cases, there have been efforts to get undocumented migrants the ability to vote.
Federal, there is virtually no evidence of fraud, to the point where I had to walk into the West Wing and present the evidence to the president's team of we are folding this commission. We found virtually nothing. It was such a low number.
PHILLIP: Next for us, though, the panel's unpopular opinions. What they are not afraid to say out loud.
But first, Roy Wood, Jr, Amber Ruffin, and Michael Ian Black are back with a comic take on the week's headlines. The new season of "HAVE I GOT NEWS FOR YOU" premieres January 24th at 9:00 P.M on CNN and the next day on the CNN app.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:53:31]
PHILLIP: We are back, and it's time for your unpopular opinions. You each have 30 seconds to tell us yours. Solomon, you're up first.
JONES: Cookies must be crunchy, soft cookies are an abomination. All right. If it's a soft --
(CROSSTALK)
ROCHA: You -- you cannot say that.
JONES: It's a soft cookie, it's cake. It's not a cookie.
PHILLIP: Like a chocolate chip? That's like a soft chocolate chip?
ROCHA: Come on now.
JONES: Cookies have to be crunchy. That's why they are called cookies.
PHILLIP: That's very sad. No.
JONES: The C and the K are both crunchy.
GRIFFIN: Just for crunchy? No. JONES: Cookies are crunchy.
GRIFFIN: No way, I like --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Anything else is a cake.
BORELLI: I'm both no. I'm both no.
PHILLIP: No.
GRIFFIN: I like my cookies medium rare.
PHILLIP: Yes. Exactly, exactly.
GRIFFIN: I actually think this is probably a popular take. So sorry, I didn't follow the assignment. Nikki Glaser should host all future Golden Globes. She is a perfect host. Just hilarious. Hits everyone. No one is off limits. But I do think toes the line perfectly of tackling Zeitgeist political issues without going so far that she alienates people.
What I'd allude to is she, she mentioned the CBS drama at multiple times. That was funny. It played well in the room. But she was later interviewed by Howard Stern and said, I didn't end up doing jokes about ICE and Donald Trump because it's just too serious for the subject matter.
That, to me, is kind of the perfect comedic genius, but also thoughtfulness that we need in this moment. She is a queen.
PHILLIP: I say, go back to no hosts. I prefer that personally. Go.
ROCHA: Most of you know I've been gone for a little bit. Thanks for all the fan mail asking to have me back. I'll be off for 21 days.
PHILLIP: We are happy to have you back.
ROCHA: I was in Africa, and my hot take is we went to Rwanda, where there is not a single piece of trash on the ground. It's the cleanest place I've ever visited.
My unpopular opinion is Rwanda is cleaner than Washington, D.C., because where I live, there is trash thrown up and down the street.
[07:55:05]
You went to Rwanda, the president there, makes folks, once a month, leave their home and pick up trash all day and then have a community meeting. And it's in (INAUDIBLE). He may be a dictator, but I hear, he is a good dictator. Just saying.
PHILLIP: A clean one.
ROCHA: A clean one for sure. PHILLIP: Go ahead, Joe.
BORELLI: Taco bell is health food.
ROCHA: Oh, come on.
BORELLI: Viewers, take it from me, CNN's resident health expert. Taco Bell, this is actually true. Is actually healthier calorically than its burger slinging competitors in the fast-food business.
PHILLIP: OK.
BORELLI: And it's delicious.
PHILLIP: Relatively speaking. I am still, you know -- I'm --
ROCHA: So, tea is that your friend? So, tea is are your friend.
PHILLIP: I'm still detoxing from all those chalupas I ate in high school.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
PHILLIP: Everyone, thank you very much. Thanks for watching TABLE FOR FIVE. You can catch me every week night at 10:00 P.M. Eastern with our NEWS NIGHT round table and anytime on your favorite social media, X, Instagram, and on TikTok.
But in the meantime, CNN's coverage continues right now.
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