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CNN Live Event/Special
State of Emergency: Confronting the Crisis in Minnesota - A CNN Townhall. Aired 8-9:30p
Aired January 28, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:45]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And good evening.
We are live from Minneapolis, a city still reeling less than a week after a federal agent shot and killed an American citizen, the second such killing in a month.
Welcome to our CNN town hall, "State of Emergency: Confronting the Crisis in Minnesota." I'm Anderson Cooper.
SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: And I'm Sara Sidner.
We are here at a local community center just four days after the fatal shooting of Alex Pretti and three weeks since Renee Good was shot and killed by federal agents. And now President Donald Trump is saying he plans to de-escalate the situation in Minnesota, even as he continues to go after local officials.
What that means and when that may happen remains an open question for the entire community here.
COOPER: Yes.
And here with us tonight to take your questions is Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, the Minneapolis police chief, Brian O'Hara, Republican state Representatives Nolan West, Elliott Engen, Republican state Senator Michael Holmstrom. We're also joined by Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison.
And our audience tonight is made up of members of this greater Minneapolis community. To find our questioners, we reached out to political and business groups, universities and other civic organizations.
SIDNER: Now, tonight's participants will be asking their own questions covering a variety of topics. You might see them holding a piece of paper. That is their question on that piece of paper. It is a question they wrote and it has not been edited in any way by CNN.
COOPER: And I want to note CNN invited the White House border czar, Tom Homan, who is here in Minneapolis, to join us to take questions tonight. He declined, as did Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. Governor Tim Walz was also invited to be here to answer questions from his constituents, and he declined. We're going to get to the audience in a moment, but, first, a look at
the events that led us here tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): It began in early December.
JACOB FREY (D), MAYOR OF MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA: We are here to respond to a number of credible reports from several media outlets relaying that there are as many as 100 federal agents that will be deployed to the Twin Cities with a specific focus on targeting our Somali community.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't want them in our country, I will be honest with you.
COOPER: Now thousands of federal agents are here, heavily armed, their masked faces hidden. They say they're apprehending criminals, but their tactics have sown terror.
(SHOUTING)
COOPER: Minneapolis residents are standing up, speaking out, warning with whistles, capturing what's happening with cameras.
The cost has been high.
(GUNSHOTS)
(SHOUTING)
COOPER: Renee Good shot dead at close range, smeared that same day.
KRISTI NOEM, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It was an act of domestic terrorism?
COOPER: Gregory Bovino marched into town with more masked men and headlines to make, an elderly American pulled half-naked from his home, a little boy, home from preschool, taken with his dad.
(CHANTING)
COOPER: The outrage is growing. Tens of thousands marched in freezing temperatures, then four days ago, this.
(GUNSHOTS)
(SCREAMING)
COOPER: Alex Pretti, an ICU nurse, helping a woman being shoved, is pepper-sprayed, tackled, shot to death and then, like Renee Good, smeared.
NOEM: This looks like a situation where an individual arrived at the scene to inflict maximum damage on individuals.
COOPER: But cameras recorded the truth, and something this week seemed to shift.
TRUMP: We're going to de-escalate a little bit.
COOPER: Tonight, Gregory Bovino is out, Tom Homan is in. But thousands of masked agents remain, and the policies and procedures they follow remain in place.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And joining us right now is the Minneapolis mayor, Jacob Frey.
Thanks so much for being with us.
You talked to the president on Monday. The president described it as a very good, his words, conversation. Today, he accused you of -- quote -- "playing with fire" by not enforcing federal immigration laws or agreeing to enforce.
Why do you not want to enforce them? And, also, how do you characterize the conversations and the feedback you have been getting from the president?
FREY: The conversation with the president was productive. It was collegial. But I am saying the same things now that I said then. And that is this.
[20:05:08]
We have a job to do in the city of Minneapolis, and that job is to keep people safe. We are going to do our jobs, not the federal government's jobs. We are required to respond to 911 calls, to prevent murders and homicides and carjackings from happening.
I want our police officers spending every single second focused on that, that keeps the residents of our city safe. I will tell you what I don't want them doing. I don't want them spending a single second hunting down a father who just dropped his kids off at day care, who's about to go work a 12-hour shift who happens to be from Ecuador.
That guy, he makes our city a better place. We're proud to have him in Minneapolis. So are we going to enforce federal immigration law? No, we don't now. We haven't for decades. And a big part of that is, I want our police officers spending their limited amount of time actually producing safety for the city.
COOPER: The administration says that two of the officers involved in the shooting of Alex Pretti have been put on administrative leave. Have you -- do you have any evidence of that? Do you believe that? And is that enough?
FREY: I have no evidence of that.
Look, what we need to see is a full and fair investigation. I believe that to get a full and fair investigation, you need to have some other entity beyond the Department of Justice and this federal administration that is at the table actually reviewing evidence. Thankfully...
COOPER: To you, does that have to be a state or a city entity? I mean, do you trust federal government only?
FREY: No, I don't trust federal government only. It's got to be the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension at the state level. This is a group of law enforcement professionals, of attorneys, of people that have deep experience, having done this before.
They have conducted investigations that have both led to a charge and a lack thereof. To have a full and fair investigation, we can't have an administration that came to a conclusion from the very beginning that the person that shot Renee Good was just acting in self-defense and that the victim was a domestic terrorist.
SIDNER: Mayor, I want to ask you about something that is going on, a conversation that had happened.
A U.S. official is telling us that there was a conversation between border czar Tom Homan and local officials and that that conversation was -- quote -- "precarious."
What do you know about that conversation? Can you take us in the room? Have you heard anything about what happened there? And is this going to lead to any solutions?
FREY: So, just so I understand properly, a conversation between border czar Homan and local officials like myself?
SIDNER: Yes. Yes.
FREY: We had what I would call a productive and collegial conversation. That doesn't mean that we agreed on everything, but there was a general consensus that the present status needs to change.
There was a general agreement that what has been happening for these last several weeks should not be happening into the future. Now, I made it very clear that Operation Metro Surge needs to end.
SIDNER: Did Tom Homan say he would end it?
FREY: He did not make a commitment to ending it on any given timeline.
However, my hope, my expectation is that the troops and the agents we're seeing will be drawn down. My hope and my expectation is the conduct that has caused so much chaos on our streets will end. But, again, I will believe it when I see it.
COOPER: Mayor, I want to introduce you to Mac Randolph.
This is -- Mac is from Richfield, Minnesota. Alex Pretti took care of his dad, Terrance Lee Randolph, when he was dying at the VA. He was his hospice nurse, essentially. And Alex honored his dad in this video. I just want to play that for our viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX PRETTI, VA ICU NURSE: Today, we remember that freedom is not free. You have to work at it, nurture it, protect it and even sacrifice for it. May we never forget and always remember our brothers and sisters who have served, so that we may enjoy the gift of freedom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Mac, welcome. What's your question?
MAC RANDOLPH, SON OF PATIENT OF ALEX PADILLA: Is there any transparency from feds on a timeline when their operation would be satisfied and they would conclude, or is this just the new reality?
FREY: Mac, first, thank you for being here. It's got to be a pretty emotional thing having someone that took such good care and had such a deep respect for your dad get shot and killed in Alex Pretti.
The question is, do we have some form of transparency in this investigation? How do we know that it will be conducted fully and fairly?
RANDOLPH: No, actually, it's whether there's a timeline...
FREY: A timeline. I apologize.
RANDOLPH: ... on the operation from the feds. Is there any transparency on when maybe they would be satisfied and conclude this overall operation, or are they just saying this will just be ongoing for indefinitely?
[20:10:10]
FREY: Look, we don't have a timeline as to when and how it will be drawn down.
And I know that's as frustrating and as concerning to me as it is so many other people in our country, because, look, Mac, you know this as well as I do. This is not about safety. If this were about safety, there would be so many important mechanisms where we could in fact partner.
We have partnered extensively. We have partnered with the federal government, with the DEA, the FBI, the ATF to successfully drive down crime, for instance, on the North Side of Minneapolis. Shootings are at a record low. Crime is down in virtually every category and every neighborhood.
But that's not what this is about. And so do I have a timeline as to when it's going to end? No, that would be a better question for the federal government. But we're going to do everything possible that we can to advocate, to push, and to stand up for the neighbors who we love so dearly.
I wish I had a better answer for you.
COOPER: If this is not about safety on the federal government's part, in your opinion, what is it about what -- that's happening here?
FREY: Well, it's not about safety, nor is it, I believe, about immigration.
You don't need to take my word for it. Listen to the words that are coming directly from the federal administration and people in it. This is about political retribution. And that should be concerning, by the way, not just for people that live in Minneapolis, but for everybody throughout America.
We do not have a system of government where people are penalized, punished, investigated or you have troops deployed to their city for people that disagree with a federal administration. That happens in other countries, but not here.
And so my message, not just in response to this answer, but my message to everybody throughout this country is, look, be a patriot. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue. This is an American issue. In America, we stand up for First Amendment speech, we stand up for our neighbors, and we don't allow political retribution to take place only because there is a disagreement.
Disagreement is what makes us better as a country.
SIDNER: Mayor, I want to introduce to you Sophia Caranicas. She is a law student here in Minneapolis at the University of Minnesota.
Sophia, what's your question?
SOPHIA CARANICAS, LAW STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: So what do you have to say to those who are arguably the majority who feel that harsh words and public statements are not enough to address this crisis?
FREY: I would say that they are exactly right.
Words alone are not going to do anything. And that's why, in the city of Minneapolis, we are taking clear action to change this. And the battlefield that we operate on is the battlefield of the law. We are right legally. The actions that have taken place in our street are unconstitutional.
You can't randomly yank off the street a person because they happen to look Somali or they happen to look Latino. You can't detain United States citizens, rip them away from their family and they don't even know where they went. And so we have the law on our side. We are preemptively and responsively suing.
We hope to get a ruling on that lawsuit in the next several days, because, to Mac's point, Sophia, to your point, we can't just allow this to continue. But that's not the only work that's happening. People in this city -- and God bless them -- are standing up, tens of thousands of people. They're the heroes in this story, peacefully protesting, standing up
for their neighbor, delivering food for people that are afraid to go outside, taking a watch at a day care to make sure that their friends, their neighbors, our family, we are a collective family, that they're safe.
And if there's inspiration to take, take it from them. Take it from the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of Minneapolitans and Minnesotans that are standing up, saying, you know what, we are better united, we are better together.
And that, if nothing else, has been ridiculously powerful. I have never been prouder to be from Minneapolis.
SIDNER: Mayor, one of those people, Alex Pretti, was out there taking video. And many things have been said about him by the administration.
You heard words from Stephen Miller, you heard words from DHS Secretary Kristi Noem, you heard from Commander Greg Bovino, all saying things about him, calling him a domestic terrorist, calling -- saying he was there to massacre police.
Has anyone from the administration apologized to you or anyone in your administration or any officials here in Minnesota about what they initially said about Alex Pretti?
FREY: No.
[20:15:00]
And, look, Alex Pretti, we saw this from the video involving your dad, Mac, clearly a person that cares deeply about this country, that cares about other people beyond himself. And in his final act there, he was recording, which is a First Amendment -- is a protection at least that you're able to record and transparently share what's happening, it's evidence. He was trying to protect somebody else.
And to have that be his last moment, I mean, it's indicative of him, but it's also so horrific that that is what had to take place. Importantly, it didn't need to have to, it did not need to take place.
SIDNER: I just want to quickly tell you what we heard from Stephen Miller. He said yesterday that CPB, quote, "may not have been following proper protocol before the shooting of Alex Pretti." So, that is what we're hearing from them now.
FREY: Well, it's not just protocol that was violated. It's a common sense of humanity. You have a person that was trying to help someone else that was tackled to the ground. He was not a threat to anyone else and fired upon by multiple agents at that time without a gun even on him.
And so, look, it's horrific. It's awful. I mean, I'll just ask a simple question. If all of those agents were not wearing a uniform, what would we call that? COOPER: I want to bring in Kathy Schweikart. She's a retiree from here in Minneapolis. She used to work at General Mills. Kathy, welcome.
KATHY SCHWEIKART, RETIREE: Thank you. Minneapolis has taken a lot of criticism from the Trump administration for being a sanctuary city. Mayor Frey, can you explain what it means to be a sanctuary city, why Minneapolis is a sanctuary city, and why you believe being a sanctuary city makes Minneapolis a safer place?
FREY: There's a lot of terminology about what is or what isn't a sanctuary city. But in Minneapolis, we have something called a separation ordinance. And what that ordinance states is that we do not work on immigration enforcement. We do not cooperate with federal agencies around immigration enforcement. We do work extensively with federal agencies to protect people and keep them safe.
As I mentioned, we've had a number of incidents, many different administrations where we've worked with the federal administration to help. But it's not on federal immigration law. Why? Again, because I want our police spending time protecting the residents of our city, stopping homicides and carjackings, making sure that violent offenders are investigated and held accountable.
What the separation ordinance also says is that we won't ask the question as to whether an individual is documented or not. And here's why. We want people that are undocumented to have the confidence to call 911 without the fear that they'll get deported in doing so. That is a safety strategy. That's not an immigration strategy. That is a safety strategy.
And by the way, this is a strategy that has been implemented and supported not just by Minneapolis and my administration. This goes back even to Rudy Giuliani, the radical leftist who said himself that we want people to call 911 and not to have a fear in doing so.
COOPER: Let me follow up on that because are you -- would you, in any scenario, be willing if the federal government came to you and say, look, ICE has identified a residence where there is a rapist and -- or there is a murderer, would you allow Minneapolis police to be involved in an operation to apprehend that person?
FREY: Yes. We're anti-rape in Minneapolis. This is the most simplest position I think I've ever taken. We're anti-murder in the City of Minneapolis.
COOPER: Because they say they are looking for hardened criminals.
FREY: Yes. If you want to look for a rapist or a murderer, God bless, like we are going to team up to catch them. Now, importantly, when you're trying to catch a murderer or a rapist, the first question that you ask is not where are you from? The question that's important is, did they rape somebody? Did they murder somebody? And if they did, we investigate and we partner to do so. We arrest and we partner in doing so. We prosecute and charge and we partner in doing so. And they go to jail. Now, importantly, and this is critical here, they go to jail as individuals. You don't hold an entire community accountable or a whole city accountable for the actions of what a person did. That's not a Minneapolis principle. That is an American principle.
[20:20:00]
You don't take away somebody's freedom because they are part of a community where somebody else did wrong.
COOPER: If Tom Homan advocates for a more targeted policy of actually going after people who demonstrably have committed a crime, not just the what they say is the crime of crossing over the border, is that something -- is that a possible point of compromise?
FREY: I've stated for, well, my entire political career and certainly, many times over the last month and a half, if they want to work together on catching truly bad guys that have made our city less safe, we do that. By the way, we do that now. We've partnered extensively with the U.S. Attorney's Office and successfully driven down crime by arresting and then they charged like a hundred people. And it worked.
But you know, I don't know why the focus has got to be on where you're from. They could be from Minneapolis, Chicago, Germany, or Ecuador. Why does that matter in catching a murderer? Just catch the murderer.
SIDNER: All right. Mayor, I want to introduce you Munira Alimire, a Somali American resident from Minneapolis and a second-year law student at the University of Minnesota as well. A lot of lawsuit law students that are represented here. You previously worked as a law clerk for the City of Minneapolis. Munira, what is your question?
MUNIRA ALIMIRE, LAW STUDENT: Mayor Frey, what material commitments are you making to community members, our community members, who have been harmed, detained, or have had their loved ones brutalized? As the mayor of the city, what concrete actions will you and the City of Minneapolis take such as providing financial support, coordinating resources, or pursuing legal action?
FREY: All of the above, providing financial support, coordinating legal resources, and of course pursuing action. These are actions that are underway and we need to bolster them even further.
So, first, we are proactively and responsibly suing, suing based on the unconstitutional conduct that is happening in our streets. Second, we are working with a number of victims of these unconstitutional actions to try to hook them up with organizations where they can themselves have standing to sue. Third, we have a task force that is set up so that we've got communication channels that are in line so that we get through this most difficult of situations.
And finally, look, our entire city enterprise has been operating over the last several weeks, if not months, to do everything possible that we can to keep our residents safe and to have an emergency response to what's presently taking place. And that includes things like having our community service officers deliver food. These are soon-to-be police officers deliver food for people that would otherwise be afraid to go out of their homes. This is everything that's happening through Offices of Immigrant and Refugee Affairs to make sure that they have legal supports in place if and when they need them.
You know, and here's the other truth, is it enough? And this is real. No. No, and I'm sorry. I never in a million years would I have imagined that this kind of thing would happen in America. That the Department of Justice would be weaponized against local people and elected officials, that we'd have this broad invasion of thousands of agents, not to keep people safe, but causing chaos in our street. And so, I'm sorry to you, to your community, and to your soon-to-be profession as a lawyer.
And if I could just add one more thing, we need more people just like you. Because you're the one that's going to stand up for these constitutional rights going forward. You're the one that is going to ensure the endurance of our Republic, which quite literally depends on people speaking out in favor of this -- of our country, in favor of America.
COOPER: We're going to take a short break. We'll have more questions from our audience. We'll hear more from the mayor, as well as the city police chief, Brian O'Hara. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:25:00]
COOPER: Welcome back to CNN's Town Hall. State of emergency confronting the crisis in Minnesota. CNN has obtained a video posted by the digital outlet, The News Movement, from 11 days before Alex Pretti was killed. This just came out. Pretti is seen shouting at agents, kicking their vehicle's taillight as the agents are driving away. The agents stop, they leave their vehicle, they tackle Mr. Pretti to the ground.
The interaction in Minneapolis, it lasts a few seconds before Mr. Pretti is able to get up. A gun appears to be tucked in his waistband. It is unclear if the agents noticed the gun. They do not disarm Pretti. They instead walk away. It's unclear what took place immediately before or after this footage.
A representative for Pretti's family confirmed to CNN that the man in the video posted Wednesday is Pretti. The Department of Homeland Security told CNN Wednesday it is reviewing the footage.
We are live in Minneapolis with Mayor Jacob Frey, and we're now joined by Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O'Hara.
Obviously, a video like this, which has just emerged, some people are going to see it as in one way. Other people are going to see it in another way. Do you think it changes at all? Do you think this video -- to you, what does this video say?
FREY: I actually haven't yet seen the video, but are we actually making the argument that Alex Pretti should be killed for something that happened like 11 days prior to the shooting itself? No, I think we should be talking about the circumstances that actually led to the killing and what took place. And those circumstances, I mean, you can believe your own two eyes.
[20:30:01]
COOPER: I want to read a statement that we just received from the Pretti family attorney. It reads, quote, "A week before Alex was gunned down in the street, despite posing no threat to anyone, he was violently assaulted by a group of ICE agents. Nothing that happened a full week before could possibly have justified Alex's killing at the hands of ICE on January 24."
Chief, in terms of the tactics you have been seeing in the streets, from a professional policing standpoint, do they make sense to you?
BRIAN O'HARA, MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA, POLICE CHIEF: Well, I think at least a number of the videos that we have seen that have been circulated online show a lot of methods that are questionable and tactics that just do not appear safe. They don't appear safe for the officers involved or for the people in the community that they're encountering.
I think law enforcement for several years now, especially here in Minneapolis, has been placing a very strong emphasis on trying to de- escalate situations whenever possible. That means we try to slow things down, we try and calm the situation, and try and not unnecessarily escalate things.
The other thing I would add about a number of the videos that we have seen is, to me, it looks like policing 20 or 30 years ago. It doesn't appear at times that officers are working in a coordinated way, that they don't seem to have sort of team tactics in a trained and disciplined way to safely accomplish a goal.
COOPER: We have been talking to a lot of incredibly brave citizens, young people, old people, all ages who have decided to stand up, hold the cell phone camera up, and bear witness to what is happening and blow whistles. We have all seen that.
There's a lot of people in this country who look at that and say, that's incredibly brave. There's some people in the country who also look at that and say, well, look, they are stepping into a policing operation. They are crossing a line.
What is the line between appropriate protest, bearing witness, and interfering with an ongoing police operation?
O'HARA: Well, very clearly, in this country, you have a right to observe, record, and object to police activity, whether that's the Minneapolis...
COOPER: To object to police activity?
O'HARA: Absolutely. You can say whatever you want about us. You can say disrespectful
things. The line is crossed when your conduct is something that is independently unlawful. If I am on a public sidewalk in a place where members of the public may be, I can stand there, I can observe, I can record, I can say what I want as long as what I'm saying isn't necessarily a crime itself, terrorist threats or that type of thing.
The line is crossed once you physically obstruct law enforcement officers, once you are physically threatening officers or trying to prevent them from carrying out some lawful function.
The reality remains people may not like the laws that we have in this country around immigration. People may not like ICE at all or think they shouldn't exist. But the reality remains, that is a lawful government agency. They do have lawful authority in this country.
SIDNER: I want to get to our audience now.
Let's bring in Anthony Banks. He is a law student, another one, at the University of Minnesota from St. Paul.
Thank you so much for being here. What's your question, Anthony?
ANTHONY BANKS, LAW STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Thank you.
When your officers are prevented from inspecting crime scenes that exist in your jurisdiction by ICE agents, how does that change your mentality going forward when dealing with ICE? And can Minnesota residents expect police to be more direct if placed in similar scenarios now knowing ICE may try to prevent them from doing their jobs?
O'HARA: So, I do feel like we are in a better place today than we were at in the beginning of the week. I think the situation had increasingly been spiraling, in a place we have never been before.
We work literally every single day with members of federal law enforcement and all of these different agencies. A lot of our officers, myself included, have personal relationships with a lot of these different federal agencies.
And so at least, when these shootings that have happened in the city have occurred, each time, I have requested the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension to respond. That is the agency that we have in this state that independently conducts use of force investigations that involve police.
The problem that we have had, particularly the last time, is that, while we were present on the scene and trying to preserve the scene, the BCA was not allowed into the scene, not once, but twice, including, in the second time, they took the unusual step of getting a court-authorized search warrant to process a public space at a crime scene.
SIDNER: I have a couple of questions for both of you. Just quickly to you, Chief. There was a description from the Trump
administration officials about what happened. I know you have seen the video of the killing of Alex Pretti.
[20:35:01]
Did you see a riot there? Did you see where the crime scene was? Because they said there was a riot and a crime scene. And it doesn't appear on video. Or does it?
O'HARA: Well, I mean, I would consider a crime scene where the shooting occurred and everything immediately around it. And that's what we were trying to preserve, so that there could be an independent investigation into the use of deadly force.
That's what our obligation is as law enforcement professionals. I mean, in terms of the video, the video speaks for itself. We see somebody standing on the side that's recording what looks like a traffic stop to me, that then there winds up becoming this scuffle and a shooting.
I mean, that's what's on the video.
SIDNER: All right, I'm going to get back to the audience.
We have a grandmom of 20. Yes, you heard that right.
COOPER: Yes.
SIDNER: Amazing, the work that you have had to do in your life.
(LAUGHTER)
SIDNER: Dana Jabs from White Bear Lake, Minnesota. You are a retired police officer, and you have 20 jobs, plus your own children.
DANA JABS, RETIRED POLICE OFFICER: Yes.
As a retired police officer, the spouse of a retired police officer, the granddaughter of a retired police chief, a daughter of a police officer, mother of children in law enforcement, I fear the president is putting local law enforcement in situations that force them to choose between a career that they love or having to defend the chaos the president is sending to our cities.
Have you talked to your officers?
FREY: Yes.
O'HARA: Yes.
First off, thank you for your service and thank you for your -- the service of all of your family members.
I have tried to be present as much as possible with our officers both out on the street and in the stations. That was the case today, where we talked about what was going on. Last night, we had a family night at the police academy, where our new recruits were there with their family members talking about their health and wellness as they embark on their new careers with all of the things going on.
And so I am very keenly aware that the police officers in this city in particular are living through all of this chaos in the street. And for a lot of them, it is bringing up very real trauma that they just started to heal from.
And it's been very, very difficult not just for them, but for the family members that are at home when they're getting called in, when they're getting held over. It's bringing everyone -- our residents -- it's bringing all of these emotions from all of this trauma back up to the forefront.
FREY: And just before this, Chief O'Hara and I came from a police officer graduating ceremony, where we swore in 24 new officers, both recruits and laterals, to the Minneapolis Police Department.
And they are coming on board for all the right reasons. They want to be the change in this department, set an example for the rest of the country to follow. Those officers that have stuck around after 2020, they're very clear-eyed about how difficult the work is, especially with the bright lights of the media and the whole world focused directly on Minneapolis.
And I got to say, I'm so proud of them. They have done an incredible job. They have worked tirelessly. They have conducted trainings. They have improved around de-escalation. And some of that department's, this department's harshest critics are now recognizing the juxtaposition between the way our Minneapolis police officers conduct themselves and what we have seen from these federal agents over the last several weeks.
COOPER: We're going to get to another audience question.
We all saw the image of a 5-year-old Liam with immigration officials outside his home near Minneapolis. His dad, Adrian -- he and his dad, they were detained shortly after his dad picked him up from school. They were sent to a detention facility in Texas, where they remain.
His attorney says Adrian has no criminal record. The family's been going through the legal process to gain asylum.
This is Zena Stenvik. She is the superintendent of Columbia Heights Public Schools, where Liam is a student.
Welcome. What is your question?
ZENA STENVIK, SUPERINTENDENT, COLUMBIA HEIGHTS PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT: Thank you.
Can you please outline all measures within your power to ensure safe passage of children to and from school each day?
O'HARA: So, thank you. I recognize the concerns that are raised with a child from your
district. I can tell you, in the Minneapolis Police Department, our number one priority whenever we are involved in an arrest situation where there is a dependent child present, that we want to do everything possible to ensure that we are not traumatizing that child and doing everything we can to maintain their health and welfare.
This is a real issue for us, not just because of what's been going on. We're only a few months removed where we had a gunman shoot over 100 rounds at children playing -- praying in a church their first week of school.
[20:40:08]
So we have been doing everything possible to try and remain in contact with schools and houses of worship in our city and to try and ensure that people do feel safe. But the reality is, there's a whole lot of families in the city that don't feel safe going out of the house at all, whether it is for church, whether it is for any of these businesses, or even to school.
There's a whole lot of children that are simply not going to school right now because the fear that's happening in the community is just very real.
COOPER: Zena, I want to ask you, what kind of an impact have you seen on the kids in your schools?
STENVIK: We're seeing the same thing in our school district. There's a lot of fear, when we have groups of masked agents roaming our streets, roaming our neighborhoods, at our bus stops, circling our schools.
It's having a very negative impact on all of the children.
SIDNER: Yes.
COOPER: Have either of you spoken to Liam's family?
O'HARA: I have not.
SIDNER: Chief, I want to just quickly ask you and you, Mayor, should these federal agents be on school campuses? Because I know we have spoken to the superintendent, and they have seen ICE coming onto campus and around the campuses.
FREY: No, of course they shouldn't be.
Here's the underlying question. What the federal government would have you believe is that they are exclusively going after criminals, that they are going after the most violent of offenders that cause danger in our cities.
Yet we see a 5-year-old kid getting picked up. We see a pregnant woman getting dragged through the snow. Are we concerned about the person that has committed a serious crime? Because, if so, again, there's broad agreement. Or are we concerned about the person that has been here for decades, maybe 29 years, who's been working as a baker?
As far as I know, nobody has come to me and said, we got to get that baker out of here. The breads and the cakes are just a bridge too far. Nobody's saying that. That guy has made our city a better place. And so why not have the focus on actual criminals? If that were the case, then, again, stop making this about immigration.
COOPER: Do you think they're trying to meet a quota? Do they -- Stephen Miller had talked about 3,000, wanting to get 3,000 people every day.
FREY: Perhaps. I don't really know, or -- nor can I speculate as to why they're doing what they are doing.
What I can tell you is that it is making our city less safe. What I can tell you is that, yes, it has caused chaos on our streets.
O'HARA: If it is the case that there is quotas, I think we learned a long time ago in this country that policing for quotas is not a good thing and that bad things happen because of it.
SIDNER: Chief, this is a question to you from our audience. This is Quin Mudry Nelson, a Ph.D. Student at the University of Minnesota.
Thank you for being here, Quin. What's your question?
QUIN MUDRY NELSON, PH.D. STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Why are local police deploying the same militant tactics as ICE on peaceful protesters, such as tear gas, flash grenades, and others? These actions only further damage the reputation of the MPD, where our communities lump your officers in with ICE.
And since they behave similarly in this regard, I can only humbly assume that the MPD does not want to be confused with ICE. So, do you speak on that, please?
O'HARA: Sure.
There have been many, many instances over the last several weeks where tear gas and less lethal munitions have been deployed throughout the city. The overwhelming majority of times, it has been from federal law enforcement agencies.
There are two instances that I am aware of where tear gas was authorized and was deployed. And in both of those instances, those were the times where it was very clearly an unlawful assembly and very, very much unsafe. And it was necessary in order to try and de- escalate the situation and remove local police and state police from those areas.
And that's exactly what happened. The reality is, there's been about a dozen Minneapolis police officers that have been injured in other instances because we are trying to step in between and we are trying to de-escalate things.
But the reality is, at times, there have been a few times -- we saw it on Saturday. There were two fires that were set. There were glass bottles being thrown, all sorts of projectiles and dangerous things happening.
I mean, those are situations that we need to -- we need to try and restore the peace as quickly as possible, try and arrest the people that are responsible, and then get back to a situation where we can de-escalate and keep everyone safe.
[20:45:08]
And I think we were -- we were successful at that.
SIDNER: I'm curious, Chief, are your officers and a lot of people who are in the streets that -- that Saturday, are your officers there to protect protesters from DHS officers or to protect DHS officers from the protesters?
O'HARA: So this has been a question that comes up repeatedly, and its one that we get accusations all the time. I know everyone sees things through one political filter or another. The reality is the responsibility of the Minneapolis Police Department is to keep the streets and the people in this city safe, period. So what happens -- what has been happening over and over and over again, once a situation deteriorates where there's a public safety threat, where there is actual violence, threats of violence, or property damage, we insert ourselves into that chaos like we would in any other situation where those types of things are happening. And we try and slow things down and de-escalate and keep the peace.
SIDNER: I just want to...
O'HARA: I think...
SIDNER: Is DHS making your officers more unsafe with some of the actions that they have...
O'HARA: All of these resulting actions and everything that has happened very clearly has had a dramatic impact and a toll on our officers. There's no question about it. But I just -- I want to finish, if I may, your original question. Even when we show up, where there's hotels being damaged and we try and stop that and make arrests, people then view that as, oh, well, you're protecting the ICE agents in the hotel. No, were protecting literally everyone.
COOPER: There's a question for you, chief. This is Kara Fannon. Shes a video game tester from Minneapolis.
Kara.
KARA FANNON, VIDEO GAME TESTER: Minnesota police have a difficult history with the infamous killings of Philando Castile and George Floyd. How do you plan to win back the favor of the people? How can we trust our local police when they seemingly stand by as families are torn apart, people are killed, and protesters are subject to tear gas and other chemical attacks? O'HARA: Well, our efforts to try and rebuild trust did not begin when
ICE arrived. That's something that has been very intentionally happening over the last few years. Our policies have changed dramatically. Our practices have changed. And we are taking a very intentional effort to engage with all people in our community. In fact, I would argue that right now in the Somali and Latino communities in particular, those are the ones being targeted here right now. I would argue we have the strongest support that this city has ever had for police from the communities that are actually being targeted.
SIDNER: All right. I want to go now to a question for Mayor Frey. Lets turn to Susannah Hollander. She is a law student here at the University of Minnesota.
Susannah.
COOPER: There's a lot of billable hours.
SIDNER: I mean...
(LAUGHTER)
SUSANNAH HOLLANDER, LAW STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: I am another law student, but I'm also a long term member of this community. So I'm wondering, what makes you the most proud of our community and how we've responded to this situation?
FREY: I have never been prouder to be from Minneapolis. We've seen tens of thousands of people peacefully -- peacefully protest in the street. We've seen neighbors standing up for neighbors. We've seen people drop off groceries and food to families that are otherwise terrified to go outside. We've seen people escort their neighbors to work because they've got to be able to pay the bills and pay rent.
You know, Minneapolis has been a place of heartbreak, but we are also a place of grit and perseverance. The fact that we've gotten knocked down seven times, but we get back up eight I think is something that both makes me proud but also the rest of the country is seeing. So, I mean, if you're looking for the extraordinary main character energy here, look no further than the 435,000 residents that call Minneapolis home and the many more that come and go.
We've been through it all over these last five years, but Minneapolis is a shining example of a city that is standing up for America.
SIDNER: All right. We are going to take a break real quick here. And when we return, we're going to be joined by three Minnesota Republican state lawmakers and get what they think about what is happening here in this city and the presence of ICE and other federal agents. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: And welcome back to our "CNN Town Hall: State of Emergency: Confronting the Crisis in Minnesota." Joining us now are Republican state legislators Nolan West and Elliott Engen and Republican State Senator Michael Holstrom. Welcome.
SIDNER: Thank you for being here. We're going to start with Representative West. What do you think about the words that President Trump has decided to use when it comes to officials here in Minneapolis?
NOLAN WEST (R), MINNESOTA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Well, I wish people would take this whole situation more seriously who are in positions of leadership, because what we see is nobody is changing their tune. Nobody is changing their tune at all. And we have people who are dying. So, I mean, what we heard earlier on the program seems like we're going to have more of the same. More of people not moving off their position, just staking out exactly where they are, when, how I look at the situation, OK, we have politics, but then we have like a crisis. That's a different thing and requires a certain level of statesmanship.
SIDNER: Do -- are you talking about the president and do you want the president to stop his very negative rhetoric that he has been using against all the leaders here in Minnesota?
WEST: I think, well, it's literally all the people involved. That's -- that's what we're seeing is there is not a desire to lower the temperature. That's immediately tit-for-tat, we're not going to work together. And I was really hopeful when I heard Tom Homan was appointed and they're moving out fresh blood. But what we're seeing is more of the same. And that is not helpful for our state. We need all leaders to stop with the negativity and start finding ways where we can actually come to end this.
SIDNER: All right. I want to go to the audience now. This is for you, Representative Engen. I want to bring in Rebecca Whiting. She is from Bemidji, Minnesota. Did I get that right, y'all?
REBECCA WHITING, CHAIR, LIBERTARIAN PARTY OF MINNESOTA: Yes.
SIDNER: OK. Thank goodness. She is a farmer and the chair of the Libertarian Party of Minnesota. She's also an Iraq War Army veteran.
Thank you for your service, Rebecca. What is your question?
WHITING: OK, so my question is, do you believe protesters have the right to the Second Amendment? Would I, as an Army veteran, still be able to have access to my Second Amendment if I attended a protest?
ELLIOTT ENGEN (R), MINNESOTA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Well, first off, I want to say, thank you for your service. We're all owing you a great debt. And, you know, when it comes to protests versus riots, that's a different thing. Of course, you have a legal right to carry. But when you are trying to get in the way of law enforcement officers, when it is your stated goal to get in the way of lawful arrests of some of the most heinous amongst us when it comes to the 1,600 people on a detainer list that Governor Walz refused to give over, that's a whole different -- a whole different thing.
So, of course you have that right. And we appreciate the fact that we can all defend ourselves from the worst scenarios. But right now, what we're seeing is absolute unrest. It's chaos. It's destruction. It's calamity. And it was completely avoidable had Tim Walz just given over that detainer list of 1,600 of the most heinous individuals.
SIDNER: Representative Engen, you talked about chaos. You talked about a riot. Did you see a riot when you saw Alex Pretti out there using his cell phone against -- just holding it sort of and showing what the the officers were doing there, the federal officers?
ENGEN: I saw a riot days prior when he kicked out a tail light and then continued to try to raise tensions with law enforcement. What's so sad about all this is that we could have never been here. We're like sitting here right now talking about a state of emergency in Minnesota. We could have avoided that all together but if not for our supposed leaders. They made actions knowingly that were going to raise tensions. And, had that original detainer list been, you know, given over to the federal government and ICE agents been allowed to, you know, remove those 1,600 individuals, we wouldn't -- we wouldn't be talking about two dead Minnesotans right now.
SIDNER: But you didn't see a riot the day that Mr. Pretti was killed.
ENGEN: There were other instances of engaging with police in an unlawful manner. In that scenario, of course, it's a sad ordeal, but it's also -- it's chaos. They would not stop getting in the way of law enforcement and our ICE agents.
COOPER: Do you see any chaos being created by ICE agents screaming at people, yelling at people, calling them slurs?
ENGEN: First off, any slur, that's disgusting. But we have ICE agents who are seeing a 600 percent increase in assaults on themselves right now.
COOPER: I'm just wondering, have you heard ICE agents...
ENGEN: You have...
COOPER: ... insulting people? Have you heard what ICE agents, Border Patrol, what people have said to citizens who are standing there with cell phones?
ENGEN: Yeah, there's been a lot of negative rhetoric that's been spewed both ways. I will not admit -- or not deny that. But when it is a stated goal to get in the way of a lawful arrest of somebody who is confirmed to be a federally recognized terrorist member of Hezbollah, or a child sex predator, as there's been many found here in Operation Metro Surge, murderers, that -- those are the people that ICE is trying to remove.
And when they're the ones being attacked, they obviously are going to have some heightened tensions, and so are the protesters, who are being told that they're Gestapo by our own governor.
SIDNER: All right. I want to address a question to you, Senator Holmstrom. President Donald Trump said yesterday that Alex Pretti, quote, "Shouldn't have been carrying a gun" and that "you can't walk in with guns, you can't do that." Do you agree with him?
MICHAEL HOLSTROM (R), MINNESOTA STATE SENATOR: So I -- I, along with 200 or plus thousand Minnesotans have a concealed carry permit. I believe that you have an absolute right to carry a firearm in -- in the streets of Minnesota. I -- again, there's a lawful way to do it. And if you are -- if you want, you have a responsibility as a gun owner and as a carry holder to be judicious about when and where you carry your firearm.
I've been to protests. I don't carry there because it's a dangerous situation. I'm not saying that that's lawful. I'm not saying you can't. I'm saying that you have -- you have a responsibility to be judicious in how you choose to exercise that right and all of your rights. So, no, I guess I disagree with the president on that. You certainly have a right to bring a firearm. That right ends when you choose to -- to physically engage with law enforcement. You've -- you no longer have a right to carry in that situation. Once you...
SIDNER: But what if you're just using your cell phone?
HOLSTROM: ... take unlawful actions, you've -- you've lost that right.
[21:00:00]
SIDNER: What if you're just using your cell phone to record them?
HOLMSTROM: Yes. So, and again, when you look at the totality of that circumstance, right, this isn't somebody that was sitting on a sidewalk who was detached and disengaged and recording, this is somebody who was in the street, who was struggling. That was a rough thing to watch, and I my heart goes out to that family. It really does.
But again, when it comes to the constitutional right to carry a firearm, absolutely he had it. Absolutely he was allowed to bring it. I don't think that in that situation I would have made that choice. In fact, I know I wouldn't have. And I certainly wouldn't have engaged in a tussle with law enforcement.
SIDNER: Do you think that his killing was justified?
HOLMSTROM: I think that it's going to be a really interesting investigation. I don't think that it's up to me. I don't presume to be the arbiter of that decision. We're going to have an investigation and we're going to find out all the facts involved and then we'll be able to make that determination.
SIDNER: Do you trust the federal government to do it? Because right now they're not cooperating with the state or local governments.
HOLMSTROM: Yes, there's a lot of agencies in the federal government. There's millions of people that work for the federal government. I believe that they can conduct a proper investigation. COOPER: I want to go our audience. A question for Representative West. This is a Chelda Smith. She's an educator and a mom from St. Paul. Sheldon.
CHELDA SMITH, EDUCATOR: Hi. What specific actions will you support in the next legislative session to address both the immediate fallout from these deadly encounters and the broader question of how Minnesota navigates federal immigration enforcement while safeguarding civil liberties?
STATE REP. NOLAN WEST (R-MN): One difficult thing about this whole situation is the federal government and the state government and all the ways they interact, generally, the federal government gets to run over the state in almost every circumstance. Not just we've been like this sort of thing we're talking about today, but almost every single law. Every time that contradicts, the federal government has preeminence.
So, we're really limited in what we can do. I do not have anything specific, I'm sorry, but I would look. I'm happy to have any discussion. I mean, that's the fun part of being in the legislature is you get us cover every topic imaginable. Some of them are not fun, but it is always open for discussion because that's what we should be doing as leaders in the legislature.
COOPER: Let me ask you, Representative West. You've dismissed the idea of deporting every undocumented immigrant in Minnesota. The administration, they have not put a number on how many people they want to deport here in Minneapolis or in Minnesota. Stephen Miller's talked about deporting 3,000 people nationwide every day. Do you have any idea? When this will end in Minnesota? When do you want the administration to come out with a number? I mean, when is enough?
WEST: Well, I literally have no power over it. So, I don't -- my opinion honestly doesn't matter that much. But I'll give it to you since you asked, is the -- actually deporting every single illegal immigrant is fundamentally an impossible thing, and especially since Congress has dragged their feet on immigration reform, I mean, you've been covering it in your many years here. Yes, it's they've let this whole system become a total disaster.
Securing the border was always the first step in that. Now, we have to look at, well, what do we do with everybody we have now? And especially given the demographic structure, it would be economic suicide to deport every single illegal immigrant in the country. But we certainly shouldn't be keeping them in our prisons or keeping them in our jails just because the state wants to exert, like, we don't want to cooperate with the fed.
They -- we can free up space in our prisons and moving the -- like start dealing with the number of illegal immigrants we have and then we need the Congress, not us, needs to find a way to get us beyond that. Now, that's a complicated question but we certainly need to be deporting illegal immigrants who have committed crimes, 100 percent. And to me that's the obvious solution. You asked the mayor that in the last section. How about everybody focus on that and let's get to work and end this.
COOPER: You would like to see a more -- I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth, would you like to see a more targeted approach here right now? I mean, everybody is saying we want to go after hardened criminals, whether that's actually happening here or not I guess is --
ENGEN: Anderson, I don't need to jump in here, but you have 1,600 people who were on a list, and that would have been a targeted approach without raids that looked chaotic and that led to violence, that led to tragedy that has led to a lot of heartbreak and chaos here in Minnesota for all the wrong reasons. And even before that, we were in chaos and in dire times because of all the fraud.
[21:05:00]
So, it seems as if Minnesota just is the epicenter of chaos right now. But there was a roadmap for none of this to occur. It would have been Donald Trump doing the exact same thing as Gretchen Whitmer, Democrat governor --
COOPER: If that's the case, though, they've been here a while. They've been here a while. If it's 1,600 people they were after, you would think they would have picked them up by now.
ENGEN: No, because the state has impeded and gotten in the way and passed legislation.
COOPER: So, you don't think they picked up 1,600 people?
ENGEN: No, there were 1,600 people that were picked up because Tim Walz did not hand over that detainer list. So, now, anybody that you interact with as an ICE agent with orders to detain and remove people that the administration wants to, they're going to have that. So, there were more because of what Governor Walz did.
SIDNER: The administration though said that they were initially going after the "worst of the worst," quote/unquote.
ENGEN: That was their goal. The worst of the worst was held back.
SIDNER: Now, people are being picked up who are legally here, detained for days and then let go. And there have been American citizens picked up. Do you think that's what they should be doing?
ENGEN: I think that that would not have happened had Governor Walz and other leaders here in the state not made it their stated goal to impede everything that the federal administration does.
SIDNER: Do you think the administration has any role in this? Because I know you're putting the blame on the governor but --
ENGEN: Of course, they both have a role. So, a heightened tension or a heightened escalation from the state where they say they're going to get in the way, that they're going to fight it at every turn, that's been met with equal force from the federal government. Now, do I like it when I hear that Americans have been apprehended based off of skin color, as some have said? No, of course I don't. That's disgusting. We shouldn't be doing that. But when you have a concerted and very calculated effort to impede that same administration at every turn, when they're trying to remove people who are literally killing Minnesotans.
A woman in Shakopee, America Thayer, was beheaded by an illegal immigrant with a machete, that right now is not allowed to be known. If that person were still on our streets, living in our communities, we would not know that because the federal government doesn't have a detainer list. We could end all of this right now if leaders want to get to solutions and not chaos.
SIDNER: All right. I want to get to a question from our audience to Senator Holmstrom. This is Arabella Velleux. She is getting a PhD in public affairs at the University of Minnesota. Thank you so much for being here. What's your question?
ARABELLA VELLEUX, PHD STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Hi. Thank you for being here. My question is, is that many residents report fear of engaging with police or emergency services due to ICE activity. What policies could the legislature pursue to ensure immigrant communities can seek help without fear while maintaining public safety?
HOLMSTROM: I think that's a great question. So, one thing that I want to pursue, and we see in other states, is 287(g) agreements. And that's agreements that allow local law enforcement to act in the place of DHS agents, to do the same job of integration. And if we allow agents to do that, we get to -- sorry, allow law enforcement to do that, we can allow law enforcement to work with the community members and build relationships.
Because that's what we've been doing in law enforcement the last 10 years. We've been focusing on building good relationships with the community, because that's what we do. So, if we create those agreements in Minnesota, and we maybe have to legislate that they have to be part of them, that gives a great opportunity for ICE to -- agents to not have to be here and not be building relationships. And your community police officers, your sheriff's departments, they can be doing this work while they're simultaneously doing all the other work and all the other great things that they're doing in our communities.
I think that that creates a really positive environment where everyone can wholeheartedly trust the police and feel safe around them. And again, the lack of that working together, we had Mayor Frey up here minutes ago saying that Minneapolis is not interested in ever working in that capacity. That refusal of our leaders, of Frey and of Walz, to engage and work with federal law enforcement is creating this chaos. It's creating a dangerous environment where people don't feel safe to go outside.
Where we have 3,000 agents in Minnesota, and people are worried about that. That would not be happening right now if we just worked with the federal government as nearly every other state does. We don't have to be prideful and boastful about fighting Tim -- or Tim Walz fighting Trump, or last night he said he would physically violate the vice president. That's language that really makes people feel unsafe. They feel unsteady when their leaders are talking about getting in fistfights with each other over bravitas. That's not how we lead. That's not how we should legislate, and that's not how we should treat our people.
SIDNER: And the president has certainly had his licks, too, against those who are in power here, but let me quickly get to --
[21:10:00]
HOLMSTROM: To that point, actually, I think it's really important to note that. This week, President Trump met with these leaders, and he came out, and he said great things about them. If you read his post, he was very complimentary, and it was repudiated with more insults from the leaders here in Minnesota. The olive branch is constantly extended, and it's swatted away because of anger and resentment.
ENGEN: Right now, as we speak --
SIDNER: You're hearing -- but wait.
ENGEN: -- we have Keith Ellison --
SIDNER: -- let's address the laughter in the room. You're hearing that laughter because people see it the other way, that the president has been --
HOLMSTROM: I think -- but honestly, I think a large part of that is the way that media is spinning it. We saw -- no, that's a real problem. Media is not addressing serious issues. Just last -- just in December, the Star Tribune here in Minnesota, our largest newspaper said -- had a year-end wrap-up where they wrapped up the most important stories of the year. They didn't even touch on the $9 billion worth of fraud in this state, which is, honestly, my belief, and a lot of people's beliefs, is the reason that there's so much chaos and that the governor refuses to work is because this is a great distraction from his absolute failure.
COOPER: If it wasn't for the countless videos from multiple angles showing the moments leading up to and after Alex Pretti's shooting, we may never have known what happened that day. And you may have seen this angle, one of the closest to the incident, filmed through a car windshield. Up until now, we had not heard from the young woman behind the camera about what she witnessed that day. Her name is Kayla Schultz. She's coming forward. She sat down with me earlier today. Here's some of what she told me. You'll see the full interview tomorrow night on 360. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLA SCHULTZ, WITNESS TO ALEX PRETTY SHOOTING: I am scared of speaking out and having this public, having my face out there and my name. But if I can muster up 1 percent of the courage that Alex had shown there in order to maybe make some amount of change, I will. They want us, again, to be afraid of them. They want us to be scared, intimidated into silence. I can lose my safety. I can lose security. They can take everything away from me, but they can't take my voice. They want us to be intimidated.
COOPER: They feed off it.
SCHULTZ: They escalate in every single way if they are not able to use that fear in order to intimidate us into backing down.
COOPER: So, if you're not intimidated, they escalate?
SCHULTZ: And that's exactly what happened to Alex. He did not let them intimidate him. In fact, he stood up for two women, but they were absolutely brutalizing, and that made them mad that they were not able to intimidate him into tucking his tail and leaving.
COOPER: Your camera is actually the closest camera to that moment of the Border Patrol guy shoving these women onto the sidewalk. But that is -- it's the closest and you have the closest vantage point of them being pepper sprayed.
SCHULTZ: One moment, there are people being pushed around. There are people being maced right in front of me. The next thing I know, it's gunshots.
It's so many gunshots. I couldn't believe it. I really have barely a recollection of the moments immediately after, other than just the feeling of absolute horror and also rage that it escalated like this.
So, they backed up, and I was sure he was dead.
COOPER: You're scared, but you're still standing up.
SCHULTZ: Yes. I think it's so important. I -- now is not the time to stay silent in this, for anyone at all. It's imperative. Things are going to get a lot worse, I think, not only in my city, but around this country as this project expands. And we all need to be courageous. We all need to be a little bit brave and, again, do what we can in order to stand up for our rights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, coming up, we're going to hear from Minnesota's Attorney General Keith Ellison on whether he thinks any federal officers should be held accountable for their actions in Minnesota. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:18:39]
SIDNER: Welcome back to our CNN town hall, "State of Emergency: Confronting the Crisis in Minnesota."
Joining us now is Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison. Thank you so much for being here.
KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Great to be here.
SIDNER: We do appreciate it.
We have an audience member who wants to ask you a question. This is Bailey Hovland from Minneapolis. She is an attorney working with a domestic violence organization.
Bailey, what's your question?
ELLISON: Hey, Bailey.
BAILEY HOVLAND, ATTORNEY: Thank you, Attorney General, for accepting this question.
With what's going on right now and what we have seen from federal actions thus far, are you concerned that, despite the almost immediate temporary restraining order regarding the evidence from Alex Pretti's murder, the federal government may have already compromised that evidence? And, if so, what can we do or what can your office do to make sure to prosecute that case?
ELLISON: Well, Bailey, thanks for the work you do.
And let me just say, yes, I'm deeply concerned about the evidence in all of these cases. I can tell you that the reason that we moved immediately after the Alex Pretti homicide, that we moved immediately to protect that evidence is because we didn't trust that the federal authorities would treat that evidence in the way that it should.
One of the things that the chief said earlier is absolutely right. Local and state officials work together all the time. It's not really very -- a big deal for local police and FBI agents or ATF to work together.
[21:20:03]
Unfortunately, in this situation, we have been excluded from the file from -- in three different cases now. So we had to take that action. So I'm concerned about it, but we're moving to -- but we did something about it, and we're going to continue to do so.
COOPER: I want you to meet Kevin, Kevin Brown.
ELLISON: Hi, Kevin.
COOPER: He's a local business owner here in Minneapolis.
Kevin, what's your question?
KEVIN BROWN, BUSINESS OWNER: Attorney General Ellison, do you actually have the names of the individuals who shot Alex Pretti? If not, how can you investigate someone for potential criminal activity if you don't know who they are? ELLISON: This is an excellent question.
And, I mean, it really speaks to the fact that it's rather absurd that the names are not public already. I can't imagine another -- I mean, look, I have been a lawyer for 36 years. I can't -- I have never seen anything like this before.
And we have heard some reports that the names might be -- exist in a report form. I haven't heard them yet. And I'm confident that we will get those names. But the fact that I don't know them yet is an absurdity and is example of how little cooperation that we're getting.
I mean, if you believe that you committed -- you used deadly force in a lawful manner, why would you be afraid to let -- to disclose that name? You're claiming that you did the right thing? Step up, admit it, and let us all deal with it. It feels like a cover-up, Kevin.
And I would never want to say that about our federal government, but over these past days, I'm not going to ignore the evidence in front of my face.
SIDNER: All right, let's go to another audience member.
Thank you for being here.
This is Lori Wolf from Minneapolis. She works for a telecommunications company and is active in her union.
ELLISON: Hi, Lori.
SIDNER: Thank you for being here, Lori.
LORI WOLF, TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMPANY EMPLOYEE: Thank you.
What authority does your office have to investigate potential civil rights violations in these cases? And under what circumstances would Minnesota pursue civil or criminal action if federal accountability falls short?
ELLISON: Well, another fantastic question.
Let me just tell you, Lori, there is no barrier, no -- no -- no, there's no absolute immunity for a federal agent who commits a crime in Minnesota. Anybody, anybody who commits a crime in this state can be charged and held accountable for that crime.
COOPER: J.D. Vance says there's qualified immunity.
ELLISON: J.D. Vance is a dis -- he's not representing Yale Law School very well.
(LAUGHTER)
ELLISON: It is a misstatement of the fact. I would challenge him to debate me on the point, because he's absolutely, positively wrong. In fact, there's other examples when agents, federal agents have been
charged. Think of the -- anybody heard of the Randy Weaver case? This is -- there was a white supremacist named Randy Weaver, and federal agents suspected he had committed a crime. They circled his house in Idaho.
COOPER: Ruby Ridge.
ELLISON: Ruby Ridge.
And one of the -- a federal agent shot and killed his wife. And Idaho pursued charges against that agent. And the case actually was litigated up to the Ninth Circuit, and it was determined that there was no blanket immunity and that this officer would have to stand trial.
Now, then there was an election and the local county attorney said, within my prosecutorial discretion, we're not going to pursue the case.
But the fact that you could pursue the case is very clear. And J.D. Vance and Stephen Miller are absolutely wrong on the law.
COOPER: This is Rob Doar. He's a defense attorney from Minneapolis. He's also active in a local gun rights group.
Rob, welcome.
ROB DOAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Mr. Attorney General, first, thank you and your team for your strong advocacy trying to get transparency in the investigation. They did amazing on Monday in court.
ELLISON: Thank you.
DOAR: Thank you.
You have been a strong advocate for stronger gun control measures, including policies that would have banned what Alex Pretti was carrying and limiting the right to public carry. Have federal operations in Minnesota and the shooting of Alex Pretti changed your perspective on these policies?
ELLISON: No, they haven't.
But let me be clear on what my views on gun rights are. I am a gun owner myself. I enjoy hunting deer, pheasant, turkey. I believe people should have the right to lawfully and safely own guns.
I also am horrified about the mass shootings that happen in our streets every day. For me, to save the precious lives of Harper and Fletcher and so many other people, it is worth having some commonsense restrictions on guns.
I believe we should have to have trigger locks. I think you should have to lock up your guns in a locker. I think you should -- we should limit high-capacity clips. I think you should have -- we should have background checks. And, as a gun owner, I don't mind any of that.
[21:25:00]
But you will never hear me saying people shouldn't have the right to have a gun. But you will also never hear me say that you should have an unlimited right to possess a gun. I'm sure that good people of -- people of good will can come together to say what makes sense, what makes sense.
So that's where I stand on these issues. I am affected powerfully by the fact that we have had more mass shootings than we have had days in the year, and we have got to bring that to an end, with due respect to people's rights to own and possess.
COOPER: Up next, we're going to hear from Minneapolis faith leaders on what is giving them hope during the city's immigration crisis.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SIDNER: Welcome back to our CNN town hall, "State of Emergency: Confronting the Crisis in Minnesota."
Right now, we are joined by three faith leaders in the Minneapolis community, Pastor Elizabeth Macaulay of the Hennepin Avenue United Methodist Church, Father Jim Cassidy the St. Joan of Arc Catholic Church, and Arielle Lekach-Rosenberg...
RABBI ARIELLE LEKACH-ROSENBERG, LEAD RABBI, SHIR TIKVAH: Lekach.
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: Lekach-Rosenberg of Shir Tikvah Congregation.
Thank you all for being here.
It is wonderful to see you here, because I think everyone can get quite riled up as to what they're seeing, and there are people that are really hurting.
And so I want to start with you, Father Jim Cassidy, as we have had conversations throughout, on what you are telling your flock to do right now as they try to figure out how to respond to the horror that they have seen on the streets of Minneapolis.
REV. JIM CASSIDY, ST. JOAN OF ARC CATHOLIC CHURCH: Yes.
I think the challenge is that we clergy can also get very riled up.
(LAUGHTER)
CASSIDY: So, part of that challenge is, that's a good thing, our role, as I'm seeing it at least. I'm at St. Joan of Arc. We're a very inclusive and welcoming parish. The challenge there is that sense of sadness that we're all struggling
with at this point deeply. How do you find hope, and simply being able to walk that walk? The biggest thing is being -- people to name that grief. It's deep here in the cities. I have never seen it as such.
Where's hope? At the same time, rage. So it's that whole combination. I know we're all three very trained, very able and skilled. Everyone can speak to that themselves. That's what we do. We journey with people in that process.
[21:30:08]
COOPER: Pastor Macaulay, let me bring you into this.
We met the other day at your beautiful church.
REV. ELIZABETH MACAULAY, LEAD PASTOR, HENNEPIN AVENUE UNITED METHODIST CHURCH: We did, yes.
COOPER: We heard about grief. There is -- there are so many people here who are grieving and feel this sense of loss and this just deep, deep sadness.
And so many people I have talked to, they talk about the strength of community. That's the number one word I hear here, community. What do you say to people who are feeling that grief over what they are seeing?
MACAULAY: I encourage them to feel it and be honest about it, rather than shove it someplace where we can't deal with those things.
I believe in the power of coming together in community. And one of the things that I ask people to remember is their own power. One of the things we do membership vows-wise is, will you use the power God gives you to resist evil and justice and oppression?
And so I may not have the energy today, but someone else beside me will. And, together, we can get through this. I believe it strongly. And it's awful and it hurts.
COOPER: Rabbi Lekach-Rosenberg, what do you say to people?
LEKACH-ROSENBERG: In this time, I acknowledge the anguish that our community is feeling, the true terror of ICE agents showing up at schools, at hospitals, and at houses of worship.
I honor that. And I also acknowledge that so many members of my community are rapid responders and are working so hard to show up for their neighbors in this time. And that looks like making sure that a 3-month-old baby has breast milk because her mother was abducted. That looks like organizing groceries. That looks like creating a prayerful perimeter around mosques and churches.
I honor the anguish, and I also honor the incredible organizing and hope and courage that people have. And I also ask us to tell the truth... MACAULAY: Yes.
LEKACH-ROSENBERG: ... to tell the truth about what we're seeing on our streets.
And whatever you see on the news, what we're seeing here on our streets is more relentless, more decentralized. It's all over the state of Minnesota.
COOPER: It's hard to fit it in that little camera lens.
LEKACH-ROSENBERG: That's exactly right.
But we -- as we journey around our streets, we see it. It's everywhere, and to tell the truth about our heartache, and also about our vision for what our community could be.
SIDNER: We both have seen the community respond in many different ways, whether it is a business, and I know there are business owners here who have given free food, open their doors to people who had -- sprayed with tear gas.
We have seen the response. And people do want to do something. They really want to do something positive to try and help.
Thank you for coming here and doing just that for all of us.
Thank you all for being here.
COOPER: And, as we talked about, there are a lot of people who are grieving, experiencing this sense of loss.
Tomorrow night, I will be hosting a special edition of "ALL THERE IS" live, my streaming show about grief. I'm going to be -- it's going to be a powerful show, Thursday night 9:15 p.m. only on CNN.com/AllThereIs. I hope you join me.
Kaitlan Collins is up next with a special interview with her guest, Congresswoman Ilhan Omar.
We will be right back.
(APPLAUSE)
