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CNN Live Event/Special

Trump Administration Sends Border Czar Tom Homan to Minneapolis in Possible Shift on Immigration Enforcement Policy; Journalists Don Lemon and Georgia Fort Arrested in Connection to Coverage of Anti-ICE Protest in Minneapolis Church; Amazon Buys Rights to Documentary about First Lady Melania Trump, Sparking Allegations of Corruption in Trump Administration; WNBA Star Breanna Stewart and Singer Bruce Springsteen Speak Out against Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired January 31, 2026 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:33]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: Today, anger and protest boil over in Minneapolis as the White House reverses course.

TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: I'm not here because of the federal government has carried this mission out perfectly.

PHILLIP: Is this the turning point in Trump 2.0?

Plus, freedom of the press under fire.

DON LEMON, JOURNALIST: I'm not part of the group.

PHILLIP: Don Lemon and Georgia Fort arrested --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Agents are at my door right now. They're saying that they have a warrant for my arrest.

PHILLIP: -- for covering the church protest in Minneapolis.

Also, the Trump family grift hits the black carpet.

MELANIA TRUMP, FORMER FIRST LADY: It was my life. So people will see it.

PHILLIP: Is it the best way Amazon could invest $75 million? Jeff Bezos facing questions.

And celebrities and athletes weighing in on Minneapolis, including a new song from the Boss hitting number one.

BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, SINGER/SONGWRITER: Citizens stood for justice.

PHILLIP: How fans and the right are reacting. Here in studio, Anthony Scaramucci, Lance Trover, Jemele Hill, and Adam Mockler.

It's the weekend. Join the conversation at a "TABLE FOR FIVE".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Hi everyone. I'm Abby Phillip, and thank you very much for joining us.

Has President Donald Trump's use of executive power gone too far? A week after a federal agent shot and killed a second U.S. citizen in Minneapolis, amid public pushback, infighting, and rare bipartisan backlash, the White House is changing course on their ICE tactics. They're promising more targeted enforcement. And dispatching the border czar Tom Homan to clean up the mess.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will remain in Minneapolis forever.

TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: When the violence decreases, we can draw down those resources.

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: This appears as an attempt to kill or to cause bodily harm to agents, an act of domestic terrorism.

HOMAN: As a career law enforcement officer, we'll let the investigation roll out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect put himself in that situation.

HOMAN: I don't want to see anybody die, even the people who are looking for it.

NOEM: Governor Walz and Mayor Frey, they instead choose violence.

HOMAN: Bottom line is you can't fix problems if you don't have discussions.

NOEM: Our officer followed his training, did exactly what he's been taught to do.

HOMAN: Nothing is ever perfect. Anything can be improved on.

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: To all ICE officers, you have federal immunity in the conduct of your duties.

HOMAN: They're trying to do it professionalism. If they don't, they'll be dealt with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gas on film! Gas on film!

HOMAN: I didn't come to Minnesota for photo ops or headlines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Trump's deportation agenda is a signature issue, and now it's underwater with the American public. A new poll finds a majority of registered voters, 59 percent, think that ICE has been too aggressive in it's deportation efforts. And with the president's legislative agenda at stake, the issue could threaten the GOP's midterm prospects.

I think more important even than the turnaround that we're seeing there is the fact that it's happening publicly, the fact that they're saying it out loud. I feel like, Mooch, you have some experience with this, but it is rare for the president, and by virtue of that, the people around him to publicly acknowledge that they're going to do things differently, that they're responding to the changing winds. And that seems what they did this week.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FROMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes. And, you know, the president reads "The New York post." And he looked down at the editorial page and realized that they were siding against him. And I think there were four editorials that never side with each other. "The Post," "The Washington Post," "The New York Times," and "The Wall Street Journal" all said the same thing. And, you know, you know him. He's got a compass, and barometric pressure was going against him. And so he switched up the game.

JEMELE HILL, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Well, but are we too quick to call it a turnaround? And the only reason why I say that is because, yes, some of the language has definitely softened. But at the same time, Trump is also posting on Truth Social and seemingly smearing the young man's name again. And so there's that part of it. And to me, the only way that I see a complete change in direction in terms of what they decided to do is if we find out who the officers are, and if they bring about some level of charges.

[10:05:07]

And I know they said that they're investigating, but it seems like the accountability that people are looking for is consequences of the -- consequences to happen to the officers involved in the death of Alex Pretti.

PHILLIP: Yes. And I think that's a really fair point. I mean, first of all, we have to actually see what they end up doing. I mean, just because Tom Homan says that they're going to start going after -- they're going to prioritize criminals, they're going to do all these things, is that actually playing out on the ground?

But to your point about accountability? I mean, the announcement that they are proceeding with a civil rights investigation into the shooting is a step toward that, because that would be a predicate for there to be any kind of true investigation into what transpired in the Alex Pretti shooting.

ADAM MOCKLER, COMMENTATOR, MEIDASTOUCH NETWORK: It is a step in the right direction, but this is after multiple people from the civil rights division resigned due to Renee Nicole Good's investigation being spiked. And this is after they let those agents back on the street in a separate state. Greg Bovino was saying those agents that shot Alex Pretti were quite literally let back out. I don't even think cops that kill someone in self-defense can just go out the next day.

PHILLIP: Most of the time they are not.

MOCKLER: Yes, but so this administration, the Trump administration being underwater on immigration or getting there is a catastrophe. It's like Obama being underwater on health care. And the thing is, most Americans agree, Americans support the deportation of criminals who are here illegally. That is fine. But we don't support whatever the hell this is. We don't support the cracking of 79-year-olds' ribs. We don't support U.S. citizens getting there like phone grabbed and thrown to the ground because they're recording ICE.

SCARAMUCCI: Five-year-olds.

MOCKLER: Five-year-olds being detained. We do not support U.S. citizens being executed on the street. And then the administration covering that up and lying to our eyes and then letting those agents back out on the street. This is not what Trump supporters voted -- I'm guessing this is not what most Americans wanted at the end of the day.

PHILLIP: Well, let me let me just play, because Trump disputes what you're saying. He claims that this is what Americans wanted. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: We'll say it very plainly. Elections have consequences. The people want law and order. And we have a silent majority. You know, we have a silent majority of people. They don't go and riot and everything else, but they like what we're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: It's not a silent majority. I think that's just a plain fact, because when he came into office, he had a majority support on this issue of immigration, and that has completely shifted. And rarely in public life do we see in 12 months an issue flip on his head. Is it a huge risk for Trump to stay in that place and for Republicans potentially to go down that road with him?

REP. LANCE GOODEN, (R-TX): Well, I go back to what I've said time and again, and you said it yourself. When we were talking about ICE and we were talking about the tactics they employ, yes, the country is very uncomfortable with that. Tom Cotton has a poll out today that says, yes, a plurality of voters do not like, and they think ICE needs to tone it down. But 78 percent, though, say criminal illegal immigrants need to go, 56 percent say if you came here illegally in the last four years, you need to go.

MOCKLER: That's not what they're focused on.

TROVER: Let me finish, man. Fifty-two percent overall say there should be mass deportations. It has been over an 50 percent issue in this country. Americans still want the deportations to happen. Yes, are they unhappy about ICE? Absolutely. I'm not debating that. But the idea --

PHILLIP: But I feel like what Trump is talking about is the pushback on the current state of his deportation agenda, which is deeply unpopular.

TROVER: Obviously --

PHILLIP: And also does not prioritize criminals.

TROVER: Look, they made a political -- look, he recognized, to your point. He reads the op-eds, he sees the polls. He understands that people are uncomfortable with what's been going on with ICE. That's why they made the move this week.

But I don't think this is some kind of death knell. The whole point in politics is if you recognize a problem and you pivot on that problem early and get it under control, especially when you have an American public that says, we're OK with the deportation.

PHILLIP: But my point is not so much whether or not he's pivoting. I think my point is more to what Jemele was saying. At the moment, Tom Homan is changing his tune. But does Trump actually understand that the current state of affairs is unpopular, or is he going to be tempted to just go back to the way things were?

TROVER: I don't think you would have a change in posture in what they did in sending Tom Homan if he didn't understand that. I understand what he said, but their actions are speaking here that they recognize that there's an issue.

SCARAMUCCI: He's talking out of both sides of his mouth, because of what Jemele said, he's saying that the guy is an insurrectionist or a potential insurrectionist, the person that was murdered. I think it was a murder, just flat out. Just look at the situation. So people don't like it. And so the question is, is he going to switch enough where he can regain some traction related to the midterms? That's the real question. And I think he's in trouble, and I think he knows he's in trouble.

MOCKLER: To debunk what he said there, though, the clip that you just played, I mean, he's completely reversing reality. He's trying to paint the peaceful protesters, the Americans that are out there on the streets, as the violent agitators, insurrectionists, as the lawless people.

You know who is actually lawless? ICE. Judge Schiltz, who is a Republican appointed judge, came out and said that ICE has violated 96 court orders. He said they violated more court orders in January than most agencies have throughout their entire existence. So do you think ICE should stop violating court orders?

TROVER: Do you think there are no violent or agitators --

[10:10:01] MOCKLER: Of course they're agitators. Of course they're agitators. You won't answer.

TROVER: -- that have acted violently.

MOCKLER: Of course there are. And I disavow them.

TROVER: -- acted violently. Alex Pretti himself who spat on an officer and kicked out a taillight. I mean, come on.

MOCKLER: I disavow violence. Can you disavow ICE -- or ICE agents who disobey court orders?

TROVER: Look, I think ICE agents should act within the bounds of the law. Of course I do.

MOCKLER: All 96 court orders, can you tell them all 96 court orders should be followed?

TROVER: I think if you are a federal officer, you should always operate within the bound of the law.

MOCKLER: All 96 court orders.

SCARAMUCCI: I worked, I worked with him. So this is what he does. He talks out of both sides of his mouth. He'll go after the European leaders, and then they respond. So they're picking a fight with us. Or he sends Bessent out to say that the Canadian prime minister is picking a fight with us when he's literally flagging the Canadian provinces on his Truth Social. So this is what he does. He talks out of both sides of his mouth. He's pulling back. He bought time up there, but then he's saying the guy is an insurrectionist because he likes to do that.

But he's in trouble on the on the issue. He knows he's in trouble on the issue. And I expect a further retracement.

WHITFIELD: All right, next for us, two journalists in connection with that church protest in St. Paul have been arrested, a remarkable step in the Justice Department's crackdown on the press.

Plus, the Melania documentary just hit the theaters, and its $75 million price tag is raising a lot of questions. We'll be right back.

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[10:16:07]

PHILLIP: Freedom of the press under fire. Don Lemon and Georgia Fort, both of them independent journalists, arrested this week for their coverage of a church protest in Minneapolis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, JOURNALIST: I'm just here photographing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you --

LEMON: I'm not -- I'm not part of the group. I'm just photographing. I'm a journalist.

So we're here just chronicling and reporting. We're not part of the activists, but were here just reporting on them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: The lawyer for Don Lemon, a former CNN anchor and reporter, issued this statement, "Don has been a journalist for 30 years and his constitutionally protected work in Minneapolis was no different than what he has always done. The First Amendment exists to protect journalists whose role it is to shine light on the truth and to hold those in power accountable. It's important to note that both a magistrate judge and the chief federal judge in Minnesota refused the DOJ's attempts to issue a warrant for Lemon's arrest." And in a post on Friday, Attorney General Pam Bondi said that the arrests were made at her direction.

We also know that according to the White House, they went to a grand jury and got these indictments. But this is perhaps the most serious pushback on the press that we have seen in the Trump era. Trump has said a lot of things about the media, but he has never before this day actually arrested a member of the press. What is this going to mean?

MOCKLER: I think he's trying to create a chilling effect where journalists, whether they're in the mainstream or independent journalists, think twice before speaking their mind freely. That's his end goal. I think that his repeated attacks on the media have basically culminated into something like this, where Don Lemon, who is covering this, gets arrested.

I also think it's really, really important to point out, Donald Trump has directed Pam Bondi before to indict people. After that, he placed more pressure on her and said, Pam, what are you doing? Come on, Pam. So even if Donald Trump didn't directly text Pam Bondi to do this, the overall pressure that he's placed from the highest rings of government have absolutely pushed Pam Bondi to indict people that they deem as political opponents. So the First Amendment obviously protects journalists covering this.

HILL: But I also think that this is a very specific, targeted, and intentional attack on these journalists in particular, independent black journalists. And we know that some of the loudest to call out Donald Trump -- hello -- have been black journalists. And Don Lemon especially, we know about their history. They clearly, there's no love lost between the two of them. And I think he's not only sending a message, but I also think that the racial dynamic here is important to note, just because making black journalists and Don Lemon in particular sort of the face of this in a way, you already know when you put his face out there, and especially with his base, that this is not going to incur a lot of sympathy from people.

And as it is, people have very negative feelings about the media overall. And so doing this with him in particular, somebody his base also doesn't like, then you'll hear people sort of cheering this on, not realizing that you're destroying your own rights in the process.

And if I may add one thing, and this is where I hope legacy media is paying attention, is that when you start capitulating to this, you enable this kind of environment, you enable something like this to happen, because then he knows that all it takes is for me to apply the right pressure and you'll give in.

So there's a reason he didn't pick particular journalists from like CNN or a bigger organization, but some of these other larger media organizations, they've already capitulated and shown him that abusing the press is well within his right to do.

PHILLIP: I wouldn't be surprised, as with a lot of things that Trump does, it's a permission structure to go further. But to your point about the personal element of it, here's what the White House posted on their official Twitter account.

[10:20:00]

It's an image of Don in the church. Ironically, this image is of Don doing his job reporting. And then it says, "When life gives you Lemons." And look, I'm not arguing that you should love Don Lemon. But I do think that it's very clear that what he was what he was doing in that moment was journalism. Why is it so -- such a big part of the Trump agenda right now to make sure that he is put in a jail?

TROVER: How do we define journalists today? That's a serious question. I mean, look, I mean, when I think of journalists -- when I think of Don Lemon when he was here at this network and reporting on the news, that to me is journalism. Now, I know we have independent journalists and people that come out now, but Don Lemon goes out and advocates and is not an unbiased observer. The Society of Professional Journalists say, you know, an ethical -- you should operate with integrity. Is operating with integrity palling around with those people and kissing them on the forehead and then saying, oh, I'm not going to show everything on this clip because of what they're going to do, because they're strategizing? I guess my question is, how do define journalists today? Because --

PHILLIP: Well, let me ask you -- let me ask you a question in response to that. Do you think that advocate -- being either saying -- I'm not saying this is applies to Don, but either advocating or being partisan, that makes you not a journalist? Is that what you're saying?

TROVER: I'm actually asking the question, because I was told for weeks that Nick Shirley in Minnesota, which is a conservative provocateur who went out and did that stuff, but he calls himself a journalist. So I'm legitimately asking.

PHILLIP: By that same token, I was also told by the by the vice president of the United States --

TROVER: Well, he was --

PHILLIP: Hold on a second. The vice president said he deserved a Pulitzer Prize. So Don Lemon is literally livestreaming and reporting. He's asking questions. He's literally saying in the livestream that he is there as a journalist.

Look, again, I'm not arguing that you need to like what he said. I'm not arguing even that what he did was prudent. I'm just saying what he was clearly doing was trying to inform the public.

TROVER: I hear you, and my question is, so anybody can just go claim, if I walk in with a phone and say, I'm here reporting, that I can be a journalist.

MOCKLER: The legal question is not what "journalism" means. The legal question --

TROVER: So it is --

MOCKLER: No. The legal question is whether he violated the FACE act by coordinating with other people to, by force, through threat of force, or by physical obstruction to injure, intimidate, or interfere. Did he do any of those things?

TROVER: He will go to court and they will say, I was a journalist, I shouldn't even be charged.

PHILLIP: Let me let me just read from the indictment, because I think this also really says a lot. "Lemon and Fort approached the pastor and largely surrounded him to his front and both sides, stood in close proximity to the pastor in an attempt to oppress and intimidate him, and physically obstructed his freedom of movement, while Lemon peppered him with questions to promote the operation's message. While talking to the pastor, Lemon stood so close to the pastor that Lemon caused the pastor's right hand to graze Lemon, who then admonished the pastor, please don't push me." So they're basically arguing that standing next to someone and asking them questions is a form of oppression and intimidation?

HILL: I mean, you, just like me, have been in plenty of media scrums, right? And it's like you generally, when the person you want to talk to is right there. And oh, by the way, if he wasn't operating as a journalist, he wouldn't have gotten the pastor's side. That was the whole reason why he was talking to him, to ask him questions about, what do you think about how people are opposing where you stand?

And if you watched Don's journalism, period, as he's been independent, he often gets both sides, like he's talked to MAGA supporters, he's talked to independents, he's talked to all manner of people. And that is what he was doing in this church. So this idea that he was somehow intimidating him is crazy.

And even outside of the building, outside of the church, he was talking to a father who was like, hey, I'm just trying to worship. I got kids, I'm trying to get home. I'm not trying to be here. And Don was like, cool, thank you, and went about his way. That doesn't sound like intimidating behavior.

PHILLIP: All right, next for us, there is a new Melania movie, and there's a big paycheck behind it, and the Trumps are cashing in on it all. We'll talk about that next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:29:02]

PHILLIP: The new Melania documentary has already been a financial success if your last name is Trump. Jeff Bezos and Amazon paid $40 million to license it. And when Trump was asked about the money, he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't know. I mean, I don't know really. I'm not involved in that. That was done with my wife. I think it's going to be -- I think it's a very important movie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, what do you say to those that are critical of the fact that Amazon paid $40 million to acquire the rights of this movie?

TRUMP: Well, I think they have to go and ask President Obama who they paid a lot of money and hasn't done anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Melania Trump has already pocketed $27 million from this movie. It is an unprecedented move by a sitting first lady to profit off of access to her private life. And that has critics saying, follow the money. I cannot imagine what would have happened if Michelle Obama while she was first lady went and got a big fat check from anybody, anyone, let alone $40 million from Amazon, who, by the way, has a whole lot of business before this administration.

[10:30:15]

TROVER: Look, it's unprecedented. I'm not going to argue that with you. But it's also not unprecedented that elected officials make a lot of money while they're in office. I mean, we could sit here and talk about Nancy Pelosi all day and her 16,000 percent increase of when she was in the stock market from when she went into office until the point that she retired and was like --

PHILLIP: OK, so that's insider trading. Give me another example.

TROVER: I'm just saying that's like, that's the top of it all. It happens all the time. Joe Biden's wealth increase while he was in office --

PHILLIP: Where, where, how?

MOCKLER: OK, wait a minute, wait a minute. Joe Biden's wealth increased from $8 million to $11 million because of investments. Donald Trump has increased by $4 billion in one year.

TROVER: He's far from being the first politician to go into office --

(CROSS TALK) HILL: Not this obscene.

PHILLIP: I'm talking about -- I'm talking about the first lady saying to a private company, we are going to give you inside access to my private life while I am the first lady. And then I'm going to put that movie out and use my office to promote that movie. And that company that is paying her has business before the government, contracts that are worth billions and billions of dollars, A.I. policy that's on the agenda. I mean, there's a lot that's at stake here for Amazon, and this is probably money well spent for them.

SCARAMUCCI: I didn't last very long in the White House, as everybody knows. But my first meeting, which I will never forget, is I was in the study off of the Oval Office, and the president looked over at me and said, you know, you went to law school. I said, I did. He said, I want to break up Amazon. Have they violated the antitrust laws? I hate Jeff Bezos. I hate "The Washington Post." I hate everything that they're doing to me. And I said, well, no, they don't meet the test of the Sherman Antitrust Act in terms of breaking them up. So you're not going to be able to break them up.

But I want you to fast forward eight years. He returned to the presidency with a vengeance. Those people knew about it. They got in line behind his children and his family members at the inauguration. And every one of those people have kowtowed to him, $1 million each of the inaugural, $40 million for the licensing of the movie.

PHILLIP: Jeff Bezos personally killed an editorial that would have endorsed Trump's opponent in the general.

SCARAMUCCI: Of Handing him gold. You know, Tim Cook is handing him gold in the White House. So their boards have all said the same thing to them. He can hurt you. He's only going to be there for another 1,000 days. Stay away from him, be intimidated by him. Go to Davos, curry favor with him. And the $75 million to Jeff Bezos and Amazon and its board is a defensive measure.

And so I'm saying something different than the rest of the people at the table. I want everybody to think about this. If you were on the board of Amazon and you were the CEO, could you imagine now what we've done to the country where we have to be worried about the head of state inflicting pain on you because of his personal admonishments?

HILL: What I would say is, what's the old adage? What good is having you know what kind of money if you never actually use it? And considering our dependency on Amazon as a nation, if I'm Jeff Bezos, my response would not have been to basically give Donald Trump or Melania, whoever, both of them --

PHILLIP: But this is not Jeff Bezos the man. This is him --

HILL: Amazon.

PHILLIP: -- on behalf, essentially on behalf of the corporation. And I think you're right.

SCARAMUCCI: They're trying to protect his company.

PHILLIP: Yes, I think you're right. Theres a -- I think there's a responsibility in some ways that he has to do whatever it takes. The real scandal is that it's working, that you can actually, potentially buy your way into a good favor in an administration.

MOCKLER: The monetization of this presidency, of the office, is unprecedented. You know, I could almost get over the Trump shoes. I could almost get over the Trump watches. I could almost get over the Trump phone, the Trump NFTs. But when Trump coin came out the day before, two days before he took office, that was a huge red line. Like all the grifting before that, whatever. The Trump coin is insane.

Now that Melania has a movie that is quite literally bombing, but she made a lot of profit off of it, and Jeff Bezos is getting favorable contracts, this is not the United States of America that I grew up in, not the United States of America that I want to continue in. I want to reform this so the corruption from the highest level isn't this brazen.

And you mentioned Joe Biden. Bidens net worth went from $8 million to $11 million because of real estate assets. Trump has gained like $3 billion or $4 billion in one year. Way different, way different.

HILL: And can I just say this real quick?

PHILLIP: Very quickly.

HILL: is I can't wait to not watch this. And the other thing too is and beyond all that, it's like, I feel sorry for the creators in Hollywood, because I live in L.A., who pitched Amazon all the time, get told no, have original stories, great content, only to see something like this.

PHILLIP: Yes, as some someone said, an expert said, this might be the most expensive documentary ever made that did not involve music licensing. So there's that next.

Next for us, they are speaking, but will the fans listen? Athletes and celebrities alike are speaking out.

[10:35:03]

Bruce Springsteen is sharing a message about Minneapolis and our current political climate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:25]

PHILLIP: The intersection of sports and politics is one with a long and storied past. And this moment in Minnesota sparking that same kind of historical outrage. Breanna Stewart is one of the best basketball players on the planet. And this week, before a game, she held up a sign that says "Abolish ICE." The protest is especially notable given that her wife is from Spain and is currently a green card holder. Stewart is one of the many athletes and celebrities speaking out in this moment, including Bruce Springsteen, who released a song this week in part to honor Renee Good and Alex Pretti.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, SINGER/SONGWRITER: Then we heard the gunshots, and Alex Pretti lay in the snow dead. Their claim was self-defense. just don't believe your eyes. It's our blood and bones and these whistles and phones against Miller and Noem's dirty lies.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And Jemele, you write in your op ed what Breanna Stewart said, which is "I think that when human lives are at stake, it's bigger than anything else."

HILL: Yes, this is a bit of a change. Now, of course, in 2020, we recall and remember so many athletes speaking out between George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, all of the events, the presidential election. So we saw them really at the forefront. But kind of since then has been muted. And much like we discussed earlier in the show about how, you know, with the arrest of Don Lemon, it sends a chilling effect. And I think we have seen a different political climate in the last couple of years, and especially for black athletes with the anti DEI stuff and everything like that. I think it made a lot of athletes very hesitant to speak up in these moments.

And so now with this, I think it was so across the line. And this is personal, as you noted, for Breanna Stewart. And women tend to lead the way. Like, a lot of the players in the WNBA, they have been very outspoken about how they feel about this administration. So I think for athletes, this represents them, you know, finding their voice. I mean, the Bruce Springsteen song, LeBron reposted it. And so I think we're going to see a lot more of this in this moment.

PHILLIP: Yes. And there was this -- there was this letter, you talk about this in your op ed as well, from all these business leaders in Minnesota. And in that letter, the teams all signed up to join in in condemning what's been happening on the ground. And to me, you know, that that goes the way that the people are, because teams are not going to not side with their fans. And it tells you a lot, I think, of where they think that not only where the state is, but where the country is on this issue.

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I would say something broadly, strategically for others to think about. The president will come after you one-on-one and you're defenseless. But if you're 60 people together, or the Fortune 1,000 got together and they had some more unanimity in terms of what they're doing and saying, they would take on the president and they would be more successful. And everything that happened, the CEOs, the artists are additional reasons why the president pulled back in Minnesota.

PHILLIP: Yes. Let me play what Edward Norton said earlier this week about what he thinks should happen after Alex Pretti's death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARD NORTON, ACTOR: I think what they're doing in Minnesota with the strike needs to expand. I think we should be talking about a national, national general economic strike until this is over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So on Friday, there was some attempt to make that national strike happen. Well, it's unclear how widespread it will be, but do you think that's even an effective strategy in this day and age?

MOCKLER: I think everything altogether is effective. I think the murder of Alex Pretti and Renee Nicole Good crossed a threshold that now has entered this into the general public's mind. One specific athlete, one specific, you know, strike may not be it, but everything together, the protesters out there in negative ten degrees, combined with Bruce Springsteen, combined with multiple athletes coming out in unison, combined with business leaders all coming together to say, hey, this is not good, I think that crossed the threshold.

I think the videos also crossed the threshold, and then the administration lying to us after did as well. So will one strike have enough leverage to change ICE? No. But think about all the voices that came together. And Democrats heard that and said, wait a minute. We do have some leverage with this upcoming appropriations bill, and then they used that leverage. So I think altogether it's pretty powerful.

[10:45:01]

PHILLIP: Lance?

TROVER: I like Bruce Springsteen. If I quit listening to all the people I didn't agree with politically, I would be stuck with Lee Greenwood. Nothing wrong with Lee Greenwood. I like Lee Greenwood.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: Just you and Lee Greenwood.

TROVER: I mean, look, it's a free country. They can do what they want to do.

My issue is, why is it when people are celebrating something on the left and the Democrats, it's we're talking about here. And when conservatives do it, they get blacklisted in Hollywood. People like Rob Schneider, who came out recently and said, yes, I'm a conservative. I got blacklisted in Hollywood. James Woods has been very public about being blacklisted because he is conservative. And that to me is always where, why are we always celebrating something when it's just on the Democratic side? And conservatives speak out.

HILL: You're going to have to pick somebody, people that are a little more relevant.

MOCKLER: I feel like there are some cancel culture on the right

TROVER: They've been very public.

MOCKLER: About after Charlie Kirk was murdered, I feel like if anybody who mentioned his name got canceled by the right. So I feel like the -- I guess, with your celebrity framework, it's just, I don't know, it doesn't --

TROVER: I mean, I'm just. That's my point, though. The media lifts up the Democratic narrative every single time. But if somebody speaks out in a conservative fashion, Hollywood blacklist them and suddenly they're not getting --

PHILLIP: Well, I don't know. I don't know if you can equate what Hollywood does with what media does. I mean.

TROVER: It's all together. I mean -- on the conservative side would disagree with you.

PHILLIP: -- who may or may not have very similar points of view. So they're entitled to do what they want to do.

SCARAMUCCI: The boycott would work. If you had a consumption boycott or workers walkout, it would hit the stock market, which is the number one thing that --

PHILLIP: Donald Trump care about.

SCARAMUCCI: -- the president looks at. And that boycott worked, and Scott Galloway is on it, it's not just Ed Norton. There's a lot of people that are looking at it saying, this may be the thing to do.

PHILLIP: Yes. So the --

SCARAMUCCI: The sit-ins in the 60s.

PHILLIP: By contrast, in the Australian Open a bunch of tennis players were asked about this, and most of them said nothing. So what do you think is going on there?

HILL: Well, I'm not surprised. And you know, Coco Gauff, I think she was probably the most poignant about it. Because one thing that is a particular irritation of mine is that sometimes when we are in this moment of discussing social justice, wider, larger issues, they always run to the black athletes and say, what do you have to say about it? And I'm like, white people live here too, OK? And they're athletes. They're in the same, similar position. So if there is more talking points to be had, they should be in a space where they're answering some of these questions.

Personally, I would love to see the media ask some of the athletes who have been outwardly supportive of MAGA, ask them, do you still support this administration based on what you've seen? Is anybody going to ask Nick Bosa that? Is anybody going to ask any of those athletes that have been outwardly supportive of the president how what they've seen jives with their own beliefs? I'd love to see that instead of always running to black athletes, asking them to put their careers and their brands on the line in answering these questions.

PHILLIP: All right, next for us, the panel's unpopular opinions, what they are not afraid to say out loud.

But first, a quick programing note. Comedian Nimesh Patel and political commentator Tara Setmayer join as guests of the new episode of "Have I Got News for Fou" tonight at 9:00 on CNN and the next day on the CNN app.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:53:07]

PHILLIP: We are back, and it's time for your unpopular opinions. You each have 30 seconds to tell us yours. Mooch, you're up first.

SCARAMUCCI: I think the president's right about the wealth tax and some of the policies in these left leaning cities and left leaning states. It's going to cause more migration if these policy leaders don't fix things and be more pro-business.

PHILLIP: All right, Jemele.

HILL: Well, hopefully nobody outside this studio will have tomatoes waiting for me, but my unpopular opinion is that when you listen to Michael Jackson's "Thriller" album, "Thriller" is actually the worst song on the album. Greatest video of all time.

MOCKLER: I'm with you.

HILL: But when you think about the songs you play from that album, how long before you get to "Thriller"? It's a long time.

PHILLIP: I think you're right about that. I've got to say, "Thriller" has never been my -- "Thriller" is not like my favorite Michael Jackson song, but it is a sort of cultural moment.

HILL: It is. Greatest video ever.

PHILLIP: So when you hear it, you perk up because it's "Thriller."

All right, Adam?

(LAUGHTER)

MOCKLER: My unpopular, my unpopular opinion is that Melania's movie makes a great first date. Because the theater, the theater will be empty. You can bring in food, you can chat. There's nobody around. They're bothering you. Great first date environment, Melania's --

PHILLIP: And a lot to talk about afterwards, I'm sure.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: All right, Lance. TROVER: Let's bring breakdancing back to the Olympics. Raygun, 2028,

wherever you are, we need it. We want you there. That's what we should have, breakdancing in the Olympics.

PHILLIP: Yes. Breakdancing can be good. Breakdancing with real breakdancers.

HILL: Exactly.

SCARAMUCCI: We needed a funnier one. Man, I want --

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: All right, all right. Next time, next time.

Everyone, thank you very much. Thanks for watching "TABLE FOR FIVE". You can catch me every weeknight at 10:00 p.m. eastern with our Newsnight roundtable, and anytime on your favorite social media, X, Instagram, and on TikTok. But in the meantime, CNN's coverage continues right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SECURITY GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Hello everyone, and welcome to "The Amanpour Hour." Here's where were headed this week.

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