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CNN Live Event/Special
CNN Saturday Morning Table for Five. Trump Extends War Timeline, Says It Could End In Two Or Three Weeks; Trump Slams Birthright Citizenship After Attending Arguments; President Trump Fires Pam Bondi As Attorney General; Obama Urges Virginia Voters To Support Redistricting Ballot Measure; New Poll: Slim Majority Back Virginia Redistricting Measure; "Going For All Humanity" Artemis II Mission To Moon. Aired 7-8a ET
Aired April 04, 2026 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Today, how an intensifying war in Iran.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We can't take care of daycare.
PHILLIP (voice-over): And soaring prices for the U.S. economy are turning into a two-part test for the president. Plus, POTUS takes a field trip to SCOTUS.
JOHN G. ROBERTS, CHIEF JUSTICE: It's a new world, but it's the same Constitution.
PHILLIP (voice-over): And sees his case to end birthright citizenship get a grilling.
TRUMP: The Supreme Court's not been acting very well. You know. Stupid people.
PHILLIP (voice-over): And in the new episode of Law and Order, Bondi gets the boot.
TRUMP: Attorney General Pam Bondi, my friend. She's doing a great job.
PHILLIP (voice-over): And Artemis II launches to the moon. For us earthlings, an important message.
VICTOR GLOVER, PILOT, ARTEMIS II: We call amazing things that humans do. Moonshots for a reason. Because this brought us together.
PHILLIP (voice-over): Here in studio, Van Jones. Peter Meijer, Nayyera Haq, and Lydia Moynihan. It's the weekend. Join the conversation at the TABLE FOR FIVE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Hi, everyone. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. More than a month into the war with Iran amid worsening conflicts and shifting goals, and growing economic pain here at home, the president is urging Americans to give him some more time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We are going to finish the job and we're going to finish it very fast. We're getting very close. Everyone is talking about it.
And tonight, I'm pleased to say that these core strategic objectives are nearing completion. We are going to hit them extremely hard over the next two to three weeks. We're going to bring them back to the Stone Age where they belong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: A speech that was designed to reassure the American public and to calm markets. Had little effect to those ends. Oil prices jumped, gas prices surged over four dollars a gallon. And CNN polling shows that just 33 percent of Americans approve of Trump's job as commander in chief. And just a third of the public supports this war effort.
On the overall economy, President Trump's approval rating is sinking to a new low of 31 percent. Just 27 percent say that they approve of his handling of inflation, and 24 percent approve of his handling of gas prices. The American public and the president appear to be growing increasingly frustrated as we enter the sixth week of this war.
There is, I think, a real challenge for the president in this moment where he is having to balance the domestic pressures and what's happening on the ground. And what's happening on the ground is becoming increasingly unpredictable. And the domestic pressures are increasing at the same time.
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. And he just gave a disaster of a speech. You know, it started off good. He was saying, you know, all this stuff, you know, the Iranians were terrible. They did terrible things.
And then he had to deal with three issues. The regime change question. He had to deal with the Strait of Hormuz question. He had to deal with the strategy going forward.
And he just botched all of them. He says 00 he says we -- already, we had regime change because we had an old ayatollah, and now we have a young one. That's not regime change. That's ludicrous.
Every single thing that was important to talk about is the Strait of Hormuz, he says. It's just going to open up magically. And when he said that, that's when you watch the futures market and everything, you know, go nuts because it's not going to open up magically.
And if it doesn't open up, we're not going to have a global economy. So, I thought the president could not do a worse job of handling this until this speech.
PHILLIP: He also has been just shifting his comments on this all the time -- every day, even since the speech.
JONES: Sometimes in the speech.
PHILLIP: On Wednesday, on -- so let me play -- this is what he said on Wednesday in his White House address. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're now totally independent of the Middle East, and yet we are there to help. We don't have to be there. We don't need their oil. We don't need anything they have.
The United States imports almost no oil through the Hormuz Strait and won't be taking any in the future. We don't need it. We haven't needed it. And we don't need it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: And then, there was Friday morning when he added this Truth Social post that said, with a little more time, we can easily open the Hormuz Strait, take the oil, and make a fortune. It would be a gusher for the world. Then, he added in a subsequent post, keep the oil, anyone?
I mean, I don't -- I don't think you could blame Americans for asking, what are we doing here? Like, what exactly are we doing?
PETER MEIJER, CO-FOUNDER & HEAD OF STRATEGY, THE NEW INDUSTRIAL CORPORATION: Well, and again, the reality is this is a war that is being fought on two fronts. One is the actual conflict in Iran and the messaging. And the signaling to negotiate what the end is going to look like, what type of concessions the Iranian regime will ultimately be forced to make.
[07:05:07]
And the other is fought at home in the media. There's a lot of doomsayers. There's a lot of negativity. And there's also the concern of the American voters.
Now, we're still seven months away from election day -- more than seven months away from the November midterm elections. I don't think there's any expectation that those will be a boon for the party that's in power. That has historically not been the case.
And the question is, what can the president achieve before then? Because the reality is a lot of these temporary concerns around gas prices, around getting oil through the Strait of Hormuz, and what that does to the international markets. Those are things that can be alleviated and rather quick terms as soon as the Iranians stop claiming sovereignty and stop attacking. And the presidents very right.
JONES: Which could -- which could happen? Never.
MEIJER: Well, the president's very right in the --
JONES: Capitulation. Never.
PHILLIP: I mean, I -- it's true that as soon as they capitulate, everything will be solved.
JONES: Yes.
NAYYERA HAQ, ASSISTANT DEAN, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY'S MAXWELL SCHOOL: Right.
PHILLIP: But it is also true --
MEIJER: But that's the point --
PHILLIP: -- that we don't know if they're going to capitulate.
MEIJER: But the -- it is also true when the president says this, we're not the ones being most impacted by it. On the United States side. And I think this gets to the frustration with Europe's ambivalence and or negativity is, at the end of the day, the free movement of goods that the U.S. has facilitated --
JONES: What would you want --
MEIJER: -- for security umbrella.
JONES: What would you want the Europeans to do --
MEIJER: -- for others?
JONES: What would you want the Europeans to do right now --
MEIJER: I want the Europeans --
JONES: -- that the United States can't do? The United States is the biggest, most powerful military in the history of humanity --
MEIJER: I would offer them the military for their own interest.
JONES: -- can't open up the Strait. And you think the -- you think the Swedes will?
MEIJER: I love them to -- (INAUDIBLE) for their own interest.
JONES: You think the Swedes are going to open up the --
MEIJER: No. The Swedes have been doing a great job, actually, of securing themselves.
LYDIA MOYNIHAN, CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK POST: The Swedes, ironically --
MEIJER: Yes. PHILLIP: Don't bring the Swedes into this.
MEIJER: The Swedes are wonderful. I love the Swedes. They're --
JONES: You want -- you want --
MEIJER: They joined NATO after centuries of neutrality because they recognize the prize. They would want to step forward.
MEIJER: You want -- you want the Irish to open up the port?
MOYNIHAN: I mean, French --
PHILLIP: But here's the thing.
MEIJER: Yes, if they --
MOYNIHAN: -- undercutting the president, trying to negotiate with Iran.
PHILLIP: Yes. Nayyera.
HAQ: So, I say, the Swedes actually -- they have a global ranking of democracy. And they officially put us on the not a functioning democracy list just about two weeks ago. So, the Swedes have a lot to say about what the United States is doing these days.
PHILLIP: Did not really have the Swedes on my bingo card today.
HAQ: Yes. But I will say this to -- I mean, to the point about -- very true that less than 20 percent of energy that the United States uses comes through the Strait of Hormuz. This is what where Asian countries, African countries, and Europe has challenged. This was a war of choice the United States instigated.
And the United States is actually economically going to be impacted when it comes to farming cycles and fertilizer prices. Other inputs, but not the direct energy challenge. So, you -- Europe is looking at this like you are telling us to come and rescue you from a war that you essentially started, and we're the ones now suffering the most. So, this is --
MEIJER: Where's the rescue? We don't need the rescue. If the concern is the Strait of Hormuz, that is an international problem.
HAQ: The rest --
MEIJER: That is not a burden by the United States.
HAQ: I appreciate the question about the rescue because this is what I wish the president had focused on in the many years of having scripted these types of national security comments and talking points that are delivered by leaders. He should have focused exclusively on what he has done. There has been the destruction of the army, the destruction of the Navy, the navigating a new path of drone campaigns. But he instead focused on things that are completely out of the United States' control right now. And that's the rescue question. Trump has been leaning on Europe. He called on NATO.
He is asking multiple other countries to jump in and help because this is an economic crisis. The United States jumped into a war and now does not have an easy path out other than declaring victory and then just walking away.
PHILLIP: So, this is layered on top of, again, the domestic situation here in the United States, where gas is a dollar more now than it was -- and this war began. Friday, the White House released its budget, which you should -- as with all budgets take with something of a grain of salt. But it signals priorities.
They want a 50 percent increase in the defense budget. They want cuts to the domestic budget. And Americans are pretty clear. Should they authorize $200 billion for further military action in Iran?
71 percent oppose that. You don't get to a 71 percent number unless you're getting a lot of independents and some amount of Republicans disagreeing with that question. This is -- the president is doubling down, and his party is doubling down on something that Americans are basically saying, we really don't want this.
MOYNIHAN: Yes. I mean, the polling certainly suggests this is somewhat unpopular. It's not great going into the midterms. I would say the midterms are still many months away.
But I don't think the president should be swayed in terms of his foreign policy decisions based on what somebody at home is saying. If he sees this as an imminent threat from a potentially nuclear Iran, this is the action that he should have made. And this notion that somehow, because somebody at home doesn't necessarily like it, that should influence what we do abroad. I just don't buy that.
And it's interesting. Jamie Dimon, who probably understands the markets better than almost anyone, of course, CEO of Americas largest bank, he chimed in on this and on the economic impact as well this week. And he said, it's much more important that this be successfully completed than what the market does. Finish this and finish it right. So, I think there's something to be said for seeing this through.
I would also note polling fluctuates very dramatically when it comes to wars. If you, of course, remember before Biden pulled out of Afghanistan, almost everyone was pushing him to do just that. Well over 70 percent of Americans were supportive of that effort. When he actually did it and did it disastrously, polling plummeted. So, I think --
PHILLIP: I --
MOYNIHAN: -- if this ends quickly and successfully --
PHILLIP: That is -- I think that's true.
MOYNIHAN: -- the polling will change.
[07:10:24]
PHILLIP: But you do have to note that the polling has gotten worse already since the start of the war. It used to be that 40 percent of Americans supported Trump's handling of the Iran situation. Now, it's 33 percent. So, he's going in the wrong direction on that.
And I think Jamie Dimon's comments are relevant. But also, it's important what he said. It's important that this is finished successfully.
JONES: Yes.
PHILLIP: That is the key.
HAQ: That is the question. That is --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: What does that even look like? What does that look like?
HAQ: What is an end state?
JONES: Yes.
HAQ: Right. Bombing -- as he said, a bombing back to the Stone Age is great rhetoric, if you're in a certain segment of American machismo society, but it is not a functioning end state. When you have a regime where ayatollah junior is younger, more radical, and now more hardened against the United States because his entire family was killed by U.S. attacks, that does not put the United States on better footing when it comes to dealing with threats coming out of the Middle East.
PHILLIP: I think --
HAQ: When you leave a country essentially demolished structurally, when you talk about whether or not they can have clean water or whether or not they're going to have electricity, you are creating pockets. You are creating a situation that gives rise to the ISIS of the world -- the ISIS cave of the world. This is what we saw out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Whether or not we stay there as forever wars, we have created a messy situation.
MEIJER: The -- I mean, the parallels to Iraq and Afghanistan, I think, are paramount in folks' minds, but it also doesn't reflect what this campaign has been so far. If you look at the org chart and who's actually been targeted within that regime, it has been very carefully selected among Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, senior military officials, within the police, the intelligence officials, not others. Just going off of who's been targeted --
HAQ: Those are the targets.
MEIJER: That's not been a decimation.
HAQ: Civilian bridge --
MEIJER: That has grew incremental escalation.
HAQ: -- girls school -- civilian bridge, girls school --
PHILLIP: That's a --
MEIJER: Obviously, accidental --
PHILLIP: No, no. But again, that all matters in the context.
For what you're saying also seems to contradict what even the president has said, which is --
MEIJER: Rhetorically.
PHILLIP: -- we kill. Well, no. He said we killed everybody, including the moderate people that we thought we could deal with. So, it raises this question of who's left, what -- how radical are they?
MEIJER: The president. The speaker of parliament.
PHILLIP: Sure. Right.
MEIJER: They're still significant civilian officials.
PHILLIP: How much -- how much power --
MEIJER: Yes.
PHILLIP: -- do they really have to make decisions? And then the end state? Are we going to leave Iran with all the nuclear material in there -- effectively in their possession? Are we going to leave this conflict with the Strait of Hormuz under their control? These are the big questions that Trump is facing right now.
PHILLIP: Yes. Look, I think one -- I think one of the things that Western powers never do well in a scenario where you have an asymmetric war with an ideological opponent. If you think about Vietnam, they were ideologically committed to communism. No matter what you said, they didn't want to be a part of the West. They didn't want capitalism. They were willing to fight for a thousand years.
And the West doesn't do well with fights like that. That's what we've got going on with Iran now. It's an asymmetric war. No, they don't have all the big bombs and stuff like that, but all they need are cheap drones to take out our oil tankers, and they can have the entire world in the palm of their hand. And they will fight for a thousand years, because of an ideological war.
So, it takes a very special kind of leadership to handle that. And what -- you're not seeing that from President Trump. He had the opportunity to show the leadership. And he so far fails to do it. And the American people are not wrong to be disappointed.
PHILLIP: All right. Coming up. Another cabinet official gets the ax. And a surprising visit to the Supreme Court by the president. Much more on President Trump's very busy week on the legal front.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one. Booster ignition. And liftoff. Artemis II now bound for the moon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: And a moment this week that brought a divided nation together as the Artemis II crew heads to the moon and back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:19:00]
PHILLIP: This week, President Trump found himself confronted with the limits of his power to bend the law to his will. First, Trump took an unprecedented trip to the Supreme Court, facing the mostly skeptical justices as they listened to arguments over his birthright citizenship executive order. And it comes amid growing anger with the courts' conservatives, who he says have ruled against him.
Trump also signed an executive order targeting mail-in ballots that would seek to create lists of U.S. citizens eligible to vote in each state. Its opponents say that that executive order is unconstitutional and likely to go nowhere. And Trump, we should also note, has voted by mail recently in a Florida election.
Then, he ended the week by firing his attorney general, Pam Bondi. Trump had reportedly grown frustrated with how Bondi had handled the Epstein files situation and over her perceived failure to prosecute his political enemies. But you can't say that's for lack of trying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: You're grilling me on President Trump and some photograph with Epstein? The Dow is over 50,000 right now. You all should be apologizing.
You sit here, and you attack the president. And I am not going to have it. We all work for the greatest president in the history of our country. Whether you're a former FBI director, whether you're a former head of an intel community, we will investigate you. They said it couldn't be done in four years, yet President Trump has done it in one year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[07:20:33]
PHILLIP: President Trump, from the very beginning, maybe the very first day of his administration, has tried to use his executive orders and his Justice Department to do basically whatever he wants. And I think he's now realizing you can't do that, whether it's liberation day or its this birthright citizenship or -- and likely this mail-in voting thing too. At what point do the people around him start to tell him that?
MEIJER: Well, in some of these cases. So, take the tariff issue. Yes. You know, ultimately, the IEEPA tariffs were struck down in part. That also occurred several months after the executive order, and that executive authority was exercised.
And so, he was able to use that successfully in trade negotiations than interim period. Now, things like the voting executive order, that's a different ball of wax. Those things, I think, will have interesting debates and dialogs in the Supreme Court and maybe get a little more clarity. Right?
PHILLIP: Is it Constitutional, Peter?
MEIJER: Yes. Yes. I mean, if you're --
PHILLIP: IT seems clearly unconstitutional.
MEIJER: If you're in Schoolhouse Rock, you know, train of thought, like you can -- yes, interesting questions. Let's have the -- have the debate. All right.
PHILLIP: Let Schoolhouse Rock teach us --
MEIJER: Yes.
PHILLIP: -- who's in charge of elections.
HAQ: Let's bull in a China shop. Everything about American democracy.
JONES: Yes. I --
HAQ: And see what we're left with at the end of it. And while we're at it --
JONES: It's really despicable, though, for the president of United States to go and mad dog justices that he appointed to get his way. There a reason -- it's not just unprecedented, it's unwise, it's unbecoming, and it's unfair. You don't do that. We have separation of powers for a reason.
MEIJER: Yes.
JONES: I don't think George Washington or Reagan, or FDR, was hanging out with the Supreme Court. We have separation of powers for a reason. So, I think that, you know, I was glad to see Justice Roberts take such a strong stand for the Constitution.
He kind of uncharacteristically, you know, smacked back -- not at Trump directly, but indirectly, and talked about the Constitution from the bench in a way he doesn't usually do.
PHILLIP: Yes. Let me play that moment. This is during the oral arguments. The voices you hear -- John Sauer is the solicitor general arguing on behalf of the government. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JOHN SAUER, SOLICITOR GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: We're in a new world now, as Justice Alito pointed out to you, where eight billion people are one plane ride away from having a child who's a U.S. citizen.
JOHN ROBERTS, CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, it's a new world. It's the same Constitution.
SAUER: It is.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PHILLIP: It is. I mean -- and look, I think there are plenty of arguments about -- I mean, sure, I'm fine with arguments about birthright citizenship and birth tourism and all of that. But it's a real -- the question at hand here is what is the Constitution say? And if you don't like what the Constitution says, what's the remedy for that? Is it that you just ignore it, that you just write an executive order, or do you change it just like everybody else has?
MOYNIHAN: Well, I think folks in the MAGA base would say they're glad that there's more visibility about this issue, particularly with birthright citizenship. Because that's actually something that 30 years ago, Harry Reid and Dianne Feinstein were talking about how we needed to change. I mean, Dianne Feinstein said, should people be able to come to the country, get on Medicaid, give birth to a baby, and then go back to their home country? The answer is no.
So, I think he's bringing these things into the public discourse in a way that we haven't seen. And it's going through the proper channels. So, he issued an executive order. Now, it's in front of the Supreme Court, and we'll see what happens.
Of course, I would love to see Congress do more than pass one bill. Essentially, the past couple of years. But they're very lazy, I guess I would say. And so, Trump in that absence, is trying to push his agenda forward and get this conversation going.
JONES: Yes.
MOYNIHAN: And it's an important conversation to have. I mean, just on Friday, you know, parents of birthright citizens who are Chinese citizens -- they were -- the parents were arrested because they detonated an IED at a Tampa Air Force base. So, this is -- this is an ongoing --
JONES: Come on. (INAUDIBLE)
MOYNIHAN: -- problematic issue.
JONES: Wait. Wait.
HAQ: Here's part of the challenge here.
MOYNIHAN: And it's important that we're having this conversation about.
JONES: Not the one does.
HAQ: The entire reason we have No Kings protests is because of this idea that a president, just because he can't do what he wants to do, that's it. That would make him a king. So, if Congress isn't introducing --
MOYNIHAN: How was he -- if he was a king --
HAQ: If Congress isn't doing --
MOYNIHAN: -- it would have gone into law if. And it's not.
HAQ: If Congress isn't doing -- if Congress isn't doing its job, this is part of what Pam Bondi ran into, is she lost the Republicans in Congress? There are many ways that presidents across bipartisan administrations have worked with Congress to get their agenda passed. This president is not patient enough, is not consistent enough, is not willing to work within the balance of powers to actually get focused, and even write executive orders that either could be supported by Congress or even be sustained in a court of law.
[07:25:02]
PHILLIP: OK.
JONES: If you want to get into this.
MEIJER: I'm just going to say --
PHILLIP: Peter.
MEIJER: I mean, the president did just put through the budget reconciliation request or the initial steps of that. I mean, this is a president who works with Congress. Yes, you're right. A lot of presidents, they use executive orders to try to bowl over things.
I remember in the last day of Joe Biden's administration, he tried to tweet a constitutional amendment into effect. So, this is a problem with presidents --
MOYNIHAN: I mean, even Obama, with I have my pen and my phone. I mean, talk about setting a precedent there.
PHILLIP: Yes.
JONES: Look, I just think that, you know -- you mentioned that, you know, somebody did something bad who happened to be birthright citizen.
MEIJER: It was a birth tourism.
JONES: Like birth -- listen, that's demagoguery. We really -- most of the people who come to this country and want them having a kid are here doing hard work. They're doing important things. They're changing diapers in nurseries. They're helping, probably your grandparents right now in nursing home. There are roofers. They are people helping this country to work.
And I'm afraid that when we go down the road of picking out one person who did something bad and making that the argument, I just don't think that's fair to the people who are watching tonight, who are in that category, who have not done a single thing wrong except come to this country and work hard.
PHILLIP: All right. Next for us. President Obama endorses a plan to redraw Virginia's congressional map, and Republicans are turning back the clock. They're accusing him of flip-flopping on that issue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:30:59]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, 44TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In April, Virginians can respond by making sure your voting power is not diminished by what Republicans are doing in other states. This amendment gives you the power to level the playing field in the Midterms this fall, and voters will have the final say over what the maps look like.
This is the responsible thing to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That was Barack Obama urging voters in Virginia to support a referendum on the ballot this month that would redraw the state's congressional districts and could give the party four more house seats in this year's Midterms.
But its opponents are turning back the clock and using the former president's previous comments on the same issue in a new -- in the new ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Because of things like political gerrymandering, our parties have moved further and further apart, and it's harder and harder to find common ground.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vote no on partisan gerrymandering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: There is another group sending mailers that feature Obama's image and this statement of his from six years ago. "For too long, gerrymandering has contributed to stalled progress and warped our representative government."
Van, I feel like you might have some thoughts on this, but there is been a big shift, and you can't really reconcile the old Obama and the new Obama on this issue.
JONES: Look, I think -- I think, it's fair criticism. And I also think that we are in a situation where Democrats are kind of in a no-win situation. Our values are to fight against gerrymandering and to fight for more fairness, but we have a party that is, you know, has a president that's demanding that red states go the other direction.
So, we are stuck with having to, you know, sort of unilaterally disarm in this fight around gerrymandering. What I like about the legislation that President Obama is backing, it does say temporary. It is a temporary response. But look -- I mean -- but --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: How is it temporary?
JONES: It's a legislation to -- it's -- legislation it's not -- it's not a permanent redistricting if you look at legislation. But my point is this, I agree it's fair criticism. If I were Republicans, I'd be doing exactly what they are doing, but I think, the Democrats are in a no-win situation here.
PETER MEIIJER, CO-FOUNDER AND HEAD OF STRATEGY, THE NEW INDUSTRIAL CORPORATION: Yes, but this --
(CROSSTALK)
LYDIA MOYNIHAN, CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK POST: I mean, this whole thing seems like a bait and switch. I mean, Abigail Spanberger said she would not redistrict. In 2020, Virginia amended its constitution to give the districting to a bipartisan commission.
And now, all of a sudden --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: I wonder why.
MOYNIHAN: I think, it's completely purple. They are trying -- and I feel like they are trying to pull the wool over voters eyes. The language that's being proposed to them is about restoring fairness, and in fact, the Republicans are suing over that use of language. It feels very misleading -- the chose of words.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Why do you think she is -- why do you think the Democrats are doing this? Is it -- is it -- is it just, we just decided to do it today or why --
(CROSSTALK)
MOYNIHAN: Well, in California, if you are concerned about balance, I don't want to go into tit for tat.
(CROSSTALK) JONES: I bet, but why?
MOYNIHAN: But you are concerned about balancing, the state -- the state of California is basically balanced out whatever Texas did. And so --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: But why?
MOYNIHAN: Now, this feels like on the offensive -- where Virginia --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: So, Texas part of it. Texas part of it.
MOYNIHAN: Is basically trying to get rid of all of the Republican seats.
MEIJER: But a lot of this also, I mean, because, yes, you can go back and tit for tat, and Texas did this, then, California did this, and then --
Then, Indiana tried to do the principal thing, and then, Virginia went with a 10 to one map.
I mean, that, the egregiousness of the redistricting, to me, in Virginia itself, is just astounding.
Like there is -- there is a predictable level of, like, political cynicism, and then, there is a 10 to one map. It is just insane.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: That's also recognize say --
JONES: You're defending Donald Trump and your (INAUDIBLE) appalled by Virginia.
MOYNIHAN: Is it -- and --
PHILLIP: I'm -- I find -- I find the outrage about a left side of redistricting it.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: It's like fanning yourself over.
MOYNIHAN: Yes.
MEIJER: Well, no. But this is like, listen, Texas, Texas and California (INAUDIBLE) some ballots.
JONES: You are fanning yourself. You are going to be OK.
PHILLIP: I mean, I think -- look. MOYNIHAN: I do remember Indiana did the right thing, and we got --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: It is -- it is truly a fox on both houses. But there is no credibility on the Republican side to say, oh my God, you are so lopsided.
(CROSSTALK)
HAQ, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: What about -- entire argument --
MEIJER: What can I say, what -- what's started the concern -- what's started this concern.
PHILLIP: I mean, there are entire states, where the only reason that there are districts that represent black voters or Democratic voters is because of the Voting Rights Act that this administration is trying to gut.
So, there are parts of the country right now, even before all of this, where it is so lopsided.
[07:35:03]
It is so lopsided. That's the way that the system has worked, and it may not work anymore if they -- if they undo that pretty much.
HAQ: And that's OK. And so, Nashville, Nashville and Tennessee was the only blue district. Right? And that's been carved in force, specifically to then take out those pockets and dilute the minority voting power.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: My home state.
HAQ: And so, there is no longer a blue district there because of that.
MEIJER: But the (INAUDIBLE).
HAQ: The irony -- but I find fascinating here is that it's like, oh, my God, the president in 2008 is talking differently now in this year of 2026. Well, of course, that was 20 years ago. So much has changed politically and expectations in norms and legal structure that Democrats finally show up to, like, with a knife to the gunfight. And it's now, it's, oh, we can't believe they showed up that way, right?
Its Democrats are late to the game of understanding how redistricting has worked, how voting power has been diluted and, OK, now they figured out how to fight back on the same playing field.
MEIJER: Yes, because principles are something you can just abandon at the easy --
PHILLIP: Let me -- let me play. Actually, this is -- (CROSSTALK)
JONES: Trump, your president is Mr. Principal? Like, you guys --
(CROSSTALK)
MEIJER: Oh, no. I'm just saying, if you want to be on a high horse, be on a high horse. But then, you got to actually (INAUDIBLE) through.
HAQ: No, that does it. We are dealing high-horse, It's (INAUDIBLE) reality now. This is real talk.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Let me play. Gavin Newsom recently talked about his conversation with Obama on this. Let me just play what they said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA), I remember calling him very nervous when I was seeking his advice. It wasn't even approval or support. It was just advice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last summer.
NEWSOM: Yes, on Prop 50.
Because, you know, when they go low, we go high, I just -- I was expecting that. And he cut that right. I didn't even get into the conversation. And he says, I just want to let you know I like what you're saying all this, and I hope you do this. And he really supported that campaign, did a bunch of zoom calls with us and campaigned for it, and was extraordinary. And he gave us the cover and the moral authority despite, you know, all of his work that he did around independent redistricting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Look, here is what, yes. Obama has a lot more moral authority than the president. But here is what I would say is this is that there was an opportunity for a grand bargain, which I think Democrats missed the chance for.
After the Republican attack on January 6th, I think the Republicans were sheepish about what had happened, and there was a chance to come together with a grand bargain that would have restored the Voting Rights Act and also given some assurances on voter I.D.
That would have been a grand bargain to do. The Democrats had the White House, we had the Senate and we had the House. Instead, we came forward the door -- with the John Lewis Act that was a thousand pages long with a bunch of stuff in it. We couldn't get through the Senate.
So, when there was an opportunity to fix it on both sides, Democrats didn't do it. And so, look, nobody's got clean hands here. But I think that President Obama is correct in this situation. We -- until we get a president blue or red, who wants fairness in voting, Democrats after that, what they have to do?
MEIJER: Well, I'm sorry. I was in Congress on January 6th, and I saw the democratic reaction to that.
JONES: Yes.
MEIJER: And it was not -- it was not benevolence. Let's put (INAUDIBLE) together.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: That's what I said. I literal --
(CROSSTALK)
MEIJER: I mean, Nacy Pelosi politically. Craven motivations. Just say, you know what, this Republicans are weak. So, let's go for the jugular. It's disgusting.
JONES: Well, I -- it was not disgusting, it was a missed opportunity. And I don't think Republicans came forward with much constructive stuff either. This is very important. There was a moment after January 6th, and I'm glad that you made it out OK, to come to the table on both sides with compromises.
Neither party did. But I say my party should have done more.
MEIJER: Because on the Democratic side, it was -- can we say -- can we say disgust? Can we say disgusting --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: But this will -- this will usher in generational hour for us.
(CROSSTALK)
MEIJER: When you say disgusting -- when you say disgusting and Craven, then, you make it harder for people like me who are trying to (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
MEIJER: I am just -- I'm winning with that's (INAUDIBLE) --
JONES: It was not disgusting, it was not --
(CROSSTALK)
MEIJER: Like, how old would that, that for?
JONES: Yes. Well --
PHILLIP: All right. Coming up for us, the historic Artemis two launch will turn into a where were you when question. And, for once, it seems that we were all rooting for the same thing. We'll discuss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE BLACKWELL-THOMPSON, LAUNCH DIRECTOR, NASA: On this historic mission you take with you the heart of this Artemis team, the daring spirit of the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[07:43:54]
VICTOR GLOVER, PILOT, ARTEMIS II: We call amazing things that humans do. Moonshots for a reason, because this brought us together and showed us what we can do when we put not just putting our differences aside, when we bring our differences together and use all the strengths to accomplish something great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: In the first interview from space, Artemis II pilot, Victor Glover, reminding us all why this historic launch was a reminder of what is really possible in this world. The crew aboard the Orion spacecraft, currently en route to orbit the moon, the first time that that has happened in nearly 60 years.
So, can the mission to take the moon make a difference in a distracted, divided world? This really does feel like it was one of those special moments. And also, just look at this crew, and who these people are, and how different they are all from each other, and how excellent you have to be, even to be in that tiny little chamber.
It is also a reminder that, yes, we are better, stronger together.
HAQ: It's such an amazing reminder of human ambition.
[07:45:01]
And coming together, what that could look like. It's nice that the Canadians were also welcomed in on American mission.
PHILLIP: They can shook hands with the Canadians again. They are --
MOYNIHAN: You know --
HAQ: They have been up quite a bit by other, you know, federal agencies lately. And that this is no one's questioning, as we call the differences amongst the team, because they are each highly successful, very capable woman mission launch director.
I thought it was wildly entertaining that NASA, what used to be considered a stodgy communications engineering group of people, has figured out how to make this a modern narrative marvel. I mean, it's live television. It's a reality show streaming on YouTube that you can watch. And suddenly, get really into it. When the toilet doesn't work, who is going to fix the toilet? And, oh, they are sending the woman, while the woman has to be the most technically capable to fix it.
It's great to see generations coming together in this way about something as ambitious as getting another human on the moon.
MOYNIHAN: Mr. Beast wishes that he could have arranged this YouTube show. Yes, and it's the 250th anniversary of America. It's just inspiring and patriotic.
And I also think it's coming as we bring some manufacturing back to the U.S. And I think, we should have more sort of things like this, where we come together and reach for the stars.
PHILLIP: Yes. Peter Baker put it this way, in the Times, "There are so few things that bring Americans together these days. Public faith in the presidency, Congress, the Supreme Court, business, the police and the media has fallen. Establishments and endeavors that were once widely respected are now seen through partisan or ideological lenses. Even institutions like Harvard University, the FBI, the CDC, are now trusted, distrusted by swaths of Americans on one side of the aisle or another."
And this is thank God different. Thank God NASA has escaped this somehow.
JONES: Yes. Look, I think, you got a lot of little kids all across the country who watch that and they -- then they raise their expectations what they could do, and maybe raise a little bit more of their pride in the country. You know, it's a difficult time, but I'm going to tell you right now, when you see what the United States can do, when we come together.
And when we -- and well, because it's United States of benefits, we are going to discover stuff, we are going to learn stuff. It's going to benefit the whole world and future generations is the type of stuff we should be doing a lot more of this country.
MEIJER: And space is awesome.
JONES: Yes.
MEIJER: Like, just full stop. I mean, I think, it's important to kind of step back and just look at how American dominance in space has just totally changed the narrative. If you look at the number of launches on an annual basis, or just the number of launches in the past 20 years, there is nobody who even comes close to the U.S.
Now, a lot of that's thanks to Elon Musk and SpaceX, who has changed that game. And it's -- it is wild to me, how, you know, we saw the starship get caught by the chopsticks on the launch tower. And we are talking about being able to, you know, decrease by a factor of 100 the cost to put a kilogram into space, and just what that does as a space faring humanity. It's awesome.
(CROSSTALK)
MOYNIHAN: And we are -- we are just getting started. (CROSSTALK)
MEIJER: Just getting started.
MOYNIHAN: We have more and more launches planned.
HAQ: Yes.
PHILLIP: Yes, I think it's also, to me, it's a reminder of why we do need the government and the private sector involved in big things. There are big things that we have to do as a country, and you cannot -- I don't think you can abdicate that responsibility as the United States government.
We really are not -- this massive government is necessary to do these things, to start the ball rolling, to give Elon Musk the funding for SpaceX, and then, to do what we just did earlier this week.
We can't forget it at a time when people just want to snip, snip, snip, cut, cut, cut.
All right, everybody, next for us, the panel has their unpopular opinions ready what they are not afraid to say out loud. And influential journalist Kara Swisher is diving into the booming longevity industry, becoming both reporter and test subject as she explores anti-aging, biotech, A.I., and much more.
A CNN original series, "KARA SWISHER WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER", premieres on April 11th at 9:00 p.m. on CNN and the next day on the CNN app.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:53:58]
PHILLIP: We are back, and it's time for your unpopular opinions. Peter, you are up first.
MEIJER: I think we need to normalize agnosticism towards sports. With the final four, with the fantasy rankings. Everyone is talking about their bracket, and I know that 90 percent of them do not care, have not been paying attention, or asking Claude or ChatGPT to fill it out for them, and we should just be honest with ourselves.
PHILLIP: You know what --
JONES: I love you, brother. I love you.
MOYNIHAN: I can't --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: We are on the same page about that way.
HAQ: I can't --
MEIJER: OK. That's not -- (CROSSTALK)
HAQ: I'll get kickout in my house if I say that.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Not unpopular of this table.
(CROSSTALK)
HAQ: So, I'm not allowed to -- I officially cannot agree.
PHILLIP: All right. Van, go ahead.
JONES: Well, to me, I just think we need to declare that pineapple on pizza is the best pizza. There is no reason for any other kind of pizza. And anybody who disagrees with me is wrong. Hundred percent.
PHILLIP: I would agree with that. That's all. All right. Nayyera.
HAQ: Water is boring.
PHILLIP: Why --
HAQ: Water is boring. That's why we have bubbly water with little different flavors. And actually, you can get bubbly water with zero calories, zero sugar, and I drink more of it that way than I do just regular plain water.
Also, I know privileged opinion, but water is boring.
[07:55:00]
JONES: Tell that to fishy. Tell that to the dolphins.
PHILLIP: Good, clean -- good, clean filtered water is good.
MOYNIHAN: You can have the spot.
PHILLIP: Yes.
MOYNIHAN: You know what can't hit the spot.
I know there is probably some folks headed to brunch after this. Do not get a mimosa. Mimosas suck.
JONES: Why?
MOYNIHAN: If you are going to drink champagne, enjoy it as is. Don't (INAUDIBLE) and eat with orange juice. Or if it's bad champagne, just don't drink it at all. It's a bad drink. It's like sugary, you feel hung over afterwards. You don't enjoy the orange or the champagne. Just -- and canceling --
JONES: Right. I will keep that. I will keep that.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: You know what? A mature me is more of a French 75 girl anyway. So --
All right, everyone. Thank you very much. Thank you for watching TABLE FOR FIVE. You can catch us every weeknight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, with our "NEWSNIGHT" roundtable and anytime on your favorite social media, X, Instagram, and on TikTok. But in the meantime, CNN's coverage continues right now.
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