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CNN Saturday Morning Table for Five. President Trump Criticized for His Rhetoric on Destroying Iranian Civilian Ahead of Ceasefire Agreement between U.S. and Iran; Former Supporters of President Trump Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Alex Jones Turn against Him over Iran War; Former Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy Claims U.S. Presidents Currently have Too Much Power Due to Congressional Weakness; Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie Claims Baby Boomer Generation Most Selfish in U.S. History. Aired 10- 11a ET

Aired April 11, 2026 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:00:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: Today, if America is the world's beacon, is the light dimming?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can the president claim that America can ever have the moral high ground if he's threatening to destroy civilizations?

PHILLIP: The president's rhetoric sparks a global debate about the red, white, and blue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is truly unacceptable.

PHILLIP: Plus, from the economy to Epstein, is Donald Trump's war the final straw for MAGA?

TUCKER CARLSON, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Who do you think you are?

ALEX JONES, RADIO SHOW HOST: How do we 25th Amendment his ass?

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW": The Trump coalition that got him elected is completely fractured and in smithereens.

PHILLIP: Also, has Congress become neutered in the MAGA era?

KEVIN MCCARTHY, FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: Right now, Trump has more power than Reagan.

PHILLIP: A Trump ally and former speaker of the House thinks so.

And they lecture younger Americans about bootstraps, paying dues, and back in their day. Well, now the boomers are called babies.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: I call this the last gasp of the most selfish generation in American history.

PHILLIP: Here in studio, Leigh McGowan, Peter Meijer, Astead Herndon, and Harry Enten.

It's the weekend. Join the conversation at a "TABLE FOR FIVE".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Hi everyone. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.

As Donald Trump's war races through its peaks, valleys, and confusion, one question rose above the rest this week. Has America lost its moral standing in the world? While the president frames his efforts against Iran as saving the world, critics say that his rhetoric and his actions undercut that claim. He set a deadline to bomb some of Iran's most vulnerable targets, including power sites and bridges if no peace deal was reached. That would undoubtedly endanger civilians, which experts say is a war crime. In order to amplify that threat, he declared an entire civilization would die, and he mocked an entire religion in a series of posts. That not only earned scorn from his MAGA allies, but also from the Pope himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO XIV (through translator): Today, as we all know, there was also this threat against all the people of Iran. This is truly unacceptable. There are certainly issues of international law here, but much more. It's a moral issue for the good of the people entirely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: On top of that, for decades the world has accused the U.S. of violence in the name of democracy and freedom, when in reality, oil has been the motivation for intervening in the Middle East. Well, this week, Donald Trump just said it out loud.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: If I had my choice, what would I like to do? Take the oil, because it's there for the taking. Theres not a thing they can do about it. Unfortunately, the American people would like to see us come home. If it were up to me, I'd take the oil. I'd keep the oil and would make plenty of money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said earlier today during the egg roll that you would like to take Iran's oil, but Americans want U.S. forces home.

TRUMP: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's that trade off --

TRUMP: If I had my choice. If I had my choice. Yes, because I'm a businessman first. To the winner belong the spoils, go the spoils. And I've said, why don't we use it? To the victor go the spoils.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So the victor goes the spoils. I mean, this takes us back, frankly, centuries in terms of how we think about war. And President Trump is unapologetic that he would like to take Venezuela's oil, he's like to take Iran's oil, and that that would be the price for, he used the phrase this week "conquest" in a post. Where does that leave us?

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think this has been a theme throughout Trump's return, his kind of colonial-esque version of viewing the world, his "open for sale" sign that he is kind of giving American foreign policy. And the American public isn't buying it. I mean, poll after poll, reporting from elected official down to voter, would tell you that most people see this as a war that is not in America's interest led by a president they do not trust. I mean, six out of ten Americans disapprove of the war. You also have the majority of Americans thinking this is going to last longer. You have the reality of the increasing energy prices. Every single level of this has really been a kind of public relations or voter catastrophe for Trump. And it's because of his own doing.

I mean, I talked to John Bolton, maybe the most prominent proponent of doing something like this in Republican politics, and he's even upset with how Trump has gone about this, because he said he never made the case to allies, he never made the case to voters. And that's what we're seeing in terms of blowback. He cannot declare victory at this moment with the Strait of Hormuz still closed and with a world that has really, I think, exposed Trump as acting in his own interest, as he's done for a long time. But I think this has been particularly egregious.

[10:05:08]

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER AND ANALYST: I would just say, you know, political disaster, you know, catastrophe, disaster, whatever word you want to use. They're not good. They're not good. And, you know, I mean, were now at the point where Donald Trump's disapproval rating on gas prices is higher than Joe Biden's was back in 2022 when gas prices were significantly higher than they are today.

And more than that, you talk about the allies. You know, you talk about, let's say, the U.K., you talk about the Canadians, you talk about the Japanese, the net approval rating on this war ranges from like minus 30 points, like minus 70 points in terms of Japan. I've never seen something that has a net approval rating of minus 70 points. I guess maybe the New York Yankees in Boston, Massachusetts. So this has just been a disaster across the political spectrum for the president.

PHILLIP: You know, I'm reminded of the concept of hearts and minds. And I wonder if you see Trump completely abandoning that concept, not caring how America is viewed around the world. And if that is the case, does that make us more or less safe?

PETER MEIJER, CO-FOUNDER AND HEAD OF STRATEGY, THE NEW INDUSTRIAL CORPORATION: Well, we can have the moral high ground. We can go after hearts and minds. We can have all the flowery rhetoric that we so choose. That has very little bearing on, at the end of the day, whether or not we're successful in that battle. So hearts and minds, right, came out of Vietnam, that idea that counterinsurgency, look how that conflict ended. We tried to apply it in Iraq and Afghanistan, hearts and minds. Wonderful. We're coming in with flowery rhetoric. Fail, fail.

I would much rather have a president right now that gets down to brass tacks, that recognizes the world for what it is than really care about what, you know, emotions on the other side of the pond may be.

Now rhetoric and allies can be important. They can have a bearing. This is where you see some of our democratic allies in Europe are struggling, even though they see where their hard, cruel interest is, they have to respond to their constituents. But I, frankly, think that Donald Trump is looking at the world the way it is, not the way we wish it would be.

PHILLIP: I'm not talking about our allies. I'm talking about our enemies. I'm asking the question when our enemies see Trump saying, well, we've got to -- we're heading to our next conquest, we're just going to take the oil, that just makes it so much easier for them to make the case that were the bad guys on the global stage. And that's what this that's what terrorist propaganda is at a fundamental level.

MEIJER: Propaganda is the right word.

PHILLIP: Well, exactly. But when we feed into it, what then?

LEIGH MCGOWAN, PODCAST HOST, "POLITICSGIRL": Well, I think what's happening right now is we are doing exactly what the autocrats and the dictators of the world would hope we would do. We were always sort of a shining beacon of democracy and freedom and hope, and what we're showing ourselves to be is nothing more than what Russia is, nothing more than what any dictator would do. I'll take what I want, when I want.

When Donald Trump talks about taking the oil and making the money from the oil, he's not talking about bringing it to the American people. He's talking about taking the money for himself. I'm a businessman. I think of myself first. Of course, we've lost moral standing in the world. We've acted like fools. We look foolish, we look murderous, we look like, um, cruel monsters on the world stage. And then we have someone like Karoline Leavitt, the White House press secretary, standing up there and telling everyone it's a victory. And I think people are just really tired of the gaslighting.

MEIJER: I believe that we've lost our moral standing and that people don't like us when they stop trying to come into our country, Or in the case of --

MCGOWAN: They're leaving at a higher rate than they're coming in. Americans are leaving at the highest rate they have ever left.

MEIJER: I assume because they're getting deported. Like --

MCGOWAN: No, that's not because they're getting deported. It's because they're going to live in Europe. They're going to live in places where you can actually -- younger women, women under the age of 28 want to leave at a rate of like 60 percent. They don't want to be here anymore. And why not? Because we have become a country that is hostile to them. So people are not looking to come here right now unless they're spending $5 million on their golden visa. Those are the different kind of person.

HERNDON: A specific elected official who has been contradictory on this. I mean, how many Trump rallies was I at that I heard no more endless wars? How many times did in that early 2016 Republican primary did Donald Trump's opposition to things like Iraq drive his ability to reshape the Republican Party?

MEIJER: Because we didn't get the oil. It all went to Chinese concessions.

HERNDON: I don't know if that's it. But I'm saying his specific pitch to voters has been to reshape kind of how America brought itself to the world. So even if this was a typical Republican president, I think the kind of backlash wouldn't be as severe. This is a president who has specifically pitched to his own voters, I would not do this, and then went out and did the exact thing.

ENTEN: Well, I would note two things, right. I think we have to talk about the general electorate, and then we have to talk about the Republican base, because I think it's two very different things that are going on there.

Number one, if we're talking about the general electorate, right, we're talking about three in five Americans who say were focusing too much on foreign matters and three in five who say we're focusing too little on domestic matters.

But you talk about that base, right? And look, we should say that the vast majority of Republicans are still with Donald Trump. The vast majority of the MAGA base is still with Donald Trump. You talk about someone like Tucker Carlson, right, who used to be beloved by the Republican base.

[10:10:00]

And then there was a poll that came out this past week that showed his net favorable rating dropping like 40 points to only, what is it, like plus six or plus seven among Republicans. When you go up against Donald Trump and you want to appeal that Republican base, you ain't going anywhere when you go up against the president of the United States.

MCGOWAN: But is it a Republican base anymore? Like, to me, it doesn't feel like the Republican base. It feels like not like an American party. The Republican Party is a party. It's an American party. The Republican base has become a party, a cult of personality. If you go up against Donald Trump, that's your problem. It's Donald Trump first, Donald Trump only. That's why I think the whole thing is so weird, because what happens if something happens to Donald Trump? Where is the Republican base in that? PHILLIP: Well, that is a perfect segue to what we're going to talk

about next. It is fair to say that Trump's base, some of it, is livid over this war and some of his actions, and now he's hitting back at them.

Plus, are baby boomers the most selfish generation? Chris Christie makes a provocative point about how they're leaving the majority of Americans in a terrible spot.

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[10:15:44]

PHILLIP: Back here at home, the war is proving that Donald Trump's base, particularly those with big megaphones, are fed up. Their words, not mine. The fractures started, of course, with the economy and the Epstein files. But his decision to launch this war and the rhetoric that followed may be the last straw for some of the MAGA faithful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: It is vile on every level. There will be nothing like it. "Open the f-ing strait," how dare you speak that way on Easter morning to the country? Who do you think you are?

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW": This is completely irresponsible and disgusting. This is wrong.

ALEX JONES, RADIO SHOW HOST: How do we 25th Amendment his ass.

ROBERT BARNES, ATTORNEY: The problem is to get the 25th Amendment is harder than impeachment. You have to get two-thirds of the House and two-thirds of the Senate.

JONES: So what do we do?

BANRES: Tackle Trump and pretend -- let him pretend he's president and publicly report that he's going through a health issue and Vance take over.

MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: I'm sorry, that's not -- that's not tough rhetoric. It's insanity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Now, if you ask the president or his allies, they'll dismiss these voices even though they helped get him elected. But if you ask them, the party is over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW": We've upset the American base, the Trump coalition that got him elected is completely fractured and in smithereens. And he doesn't care, Piers, because he doesn't care about the Republican Party. He cares about himself. If Trump had to get reelected, he probably would have handled this a little differently. But he doesn't care that the Republicans are going to lose the midterms. I think he thought that was a foregone conclusion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: There's so much revisionist history here happening when it comes to who -- I'll ask the question, who cares what Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones say? Well, the answer is Donald Trump did for many years, and he is the reason that they are, quote-unquote, relevant. Look, I take your point, Harry, that Trump's absolute numbers with the base with MAGA are very high.

ENTEN: They are very high.

PHILLIP: But these are the kind of trendsetters, the people -- I mean, between Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson, they have two of the largest platforms in MAGA world.

ENTEN: Yes, they absolutely do. I think the bigger question to me isn't necessarily what they think these MAGA folks or Republican base thinks of Donald Trump. It's whether they actually come out and vote in the midterm elections. And you look at this past week, you look at that special election down in Georgia, right, Georgia 14th, Marjorie Taylor Greene's former district. You look at the Wisconsin Supreme Court race, where obviously it's nonpartisan, but you have a liberal and conservative endorsed by the parties, and you just look at the margins and the overperformances by Democrats. What was it, 25 points in Georgia's 14th? We're talking about the largest liberal candidate winning an open seat in a generation at least 30 years. Are these voters, these Republican base, are they going to stay home? And if you have the Tucker Carlsons and the Megyn Kellys of the world talking to their audiences, they say, you know, I like Donald Trump, but, nah, I'm good.

PHILLIP: I don't really love what's going on here. You know, my life is not the way I would like it to be. Yes. I mean, a, a black Democrat getting, what, 44 percent in Marjorie Taylor Greene's old district is crazy.

HERNDON: And the special elections have proven predictive for midterm results. So we shouldn't just dismiss these. I think that Democratic overperformance has been a consistent trend since 2024, and I think one that shows their growth, particularly with the most engaged portions of the electorate.

It is a difficult thing when we think about what the impact of the Tuckers or Megyn Kellys are, because, to your point, I think it's important to note that the majority of the Republican base is obviously still with him. But Donald Trump's coalition went beyond Republican base.

ENTEN: Great point.

HERNDON: Donald Trump's coalition included independents, including people who don't traditionally vote, includes people who only vote for him. Now, because he's a lame duck, maybe that does not matter as much as were thinking for the future, but it is certainly a break between the type of people who came to make him president that was driven through largely the economy, driven through largely a diagnosis of a broken political system that I think people thought he was going to return to try to fix. And I think he has really returned and embodied that brokenness, whether that is on Iran, whether that's on immigration, whether that's on Epstein, I think he has become a second term president who feels further and further away from the promises he gave his base.

[10:20:02]

PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, even if it's just a perception that he embodies the establishment, that's problematic.

I wanted to just also note that J.D. Vance of all of this, which is, "The Times" reported this week that in front of colleagues, Vance warned Trump that a war against Iran would cause regional chaos and untold numbers of casualties. It could also break apart Trump's political coalition and would be seen as a betrayal by many voters who had bought into the promise of no new wars.

Again, people keep trying to tell me that Trump has always been for war with Iran, but his voters believed that he would not spend American blood and treasure overseas at the expense of domestic needs. And they feel -- and there is a risk here, according to Vance.

MEIJER: When you said that they feel, right, it's that question of perception. And I think especially when it comes to what we were talking about earlier with Tucker Carlson, with Megyn Kelly, with other folks who see an opportunity to try to divide his coalition, to be a vanguard of what comes next. And I've been seeing this positioning from folks trying to figure out, how do I make sure I have a leg up in the post-Trump world? You know, that has been something folks were doing, going very hard out in 2021 and 2022. And then some of them, when Trump rose up, they go, OK, we'll sit to the background.

Now they say, OK, you know what, he's going to be out of office come 2029. That's our shot. That's our opportunity. If we can get our licks in early, we can get a little bit up. It's opportunistic maneuvering. It's a reality of our politics. It's cynical. The reality is a lot of these folks, and this applies to the political system more broadly, are not exactly known for their upstanding pursuit of truth and honesty.

MCGOWAN: Says the former congressman. Listen --

MEIJER: Former, former.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: You're not wrong about that part of it.

MCGOWAN: This is the thing that upsets me, is that you're hearing about the Republican Party is now fractured, that that he had a coalition of people that weren't even in the Republican Party. And you're talking about feelings and how people feel. And I'll tell you, I feel frustrated at the Democratic leadership right now, because why am I hearing from, you know, Alex "the frogs are gay" Jones and Tucker Carlson, reasonable thoughts? Why is it that I'm hearing Megyn Kelly say what most of us are thinking, and not the Democratic leadership right now? To me, this seems like a cakewalk, right, into a very obvious we should be an antiwar party. We should be looking out for the people of America. What happened to America first? It seems like for the Democrats, there should be a wide-open door that that they're letting people like Tucker Carlson take advantage of.

MEIJER: Do you want to do trade? We'll take Fetterman, you get them?

PHILLIP: I mean, they are -- I mean, to be to be fair to them, the Democrats, at least, they are vocally opposed to this war. It's just that nobody cares what they have to saw.

MCGOWAN: And that's a problem, right? If you are leadership, that's a problem. Why am I listening to Alex Jones --

PHILLIP: I think it's the lack of power.

(CROSS TALK)

HERNDON: And it's about how they're opposing the war. To me, I feel like they've been most clearly opposing it from the process point of view, about like --

PHILLIP: Correct.

ENTEN: You're talking process.

HERNDON: Yes, yes. Whether Trump has made his case in front of Congress. Legitimate points, sure. But I think the substance about the war or even, you know, the leading voice calling out his anti-Muslim rhetoric was Tucker Carlson. I think fair to say that. So I do think there are some space that the Democratic Party leadership could embody that their voters have been living in. I think it's clear they don't necessarily want to go there. They feel more comfortable in process, and that's been part of their problem.

ENTEN: You know, you're making the point that the net approval rating for Democratic congressional leaders among Democrats is negative. The Democratic base doesn't like what their congressional leaders are doing. And so to me, you just look at all of this situation, you go, wait a minute, Donald Trump has a net approval rating of what, minus 15, minus 20 points underwater. And yet Democrats only have, what, a five, six point lead in the generic congressional ballot? Something is missing.

PHILLIP: Yes. Well, I mean, look, I think that Democrats have no power, and their voters are always going to be upset with the fact that they have no power.

ENTEN: But they're far more upset --

MCGOWAN: But its not that I'm expecting them to --

PHILLIP: Screaming into the void is not going to help.

MCGOWAN: But it will help a little bit. I think that messaging is an important thing. Like, I'm screaming into the void every day. I'm a freaking podcaster. Who cares who I am, right? But at the end of the day, people listen if you're talking, if you're speaking truth to them, if you are seeing them and speaking to them. And the thing is, is that we do need Democratic leadership to come out and say this is atrocious. The fact that our president said this is appalling. We should never be talking like this. The American president should never have this amount of power again to just, on a whim, decide that they can press a red button and get rid of an entire civilization, never to come back again. That is something we should be discussing, and that is certainly something Democratic leaders should be saying.

PHILLIP: You're teeing me up so perfectly for the next segment.

Next for us, a pretty alarming observation by a former Republican speaker of the House, while Kevin McCarthy says the Congress has given up its power to Donald Trump. We'll debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:29:18]

PHILLIP: Has Congress relinquished its power under Donald Trump? The former Republican speaker of the House who is a Trump ally, thinks so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN MCCARTHY, FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: Right now, Trump has more power than Reagan. We haven't seen a president like this on either party since Roosevelt, where he has come back into power so strong he has a greater determination of where whether a Republican wins reelection than any leader in Congress does. He raises the money. Bills don't pass. He's the whip and the speaker, the president is, right now, to go through that. And because of that, if you watch Article One, Article Two, Article Three, remember Article One, the first thing in it is the power of Congress. Well, that's kind of been usurped right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:30:10]

PHILLIP: It is a good question, since Congress is essentially nowhere to be seen in this war, that's figuratively and literally. They are away from Washington right now, including during a partial shutdown. And Republicans keep saying it's just a short operation and refuse to rein in Trump's war powers. But perhaps the better question, if the president is more powerful than all of his predecessors, why isn't anything of consequence getting done at the capitol? I mean, this, first of all, just to rewind here, put the war aside for just a second. Part of the government is shut down. OK?

(LAUGHTER)

MEIJER: Yes, correct. Democrats wont vote to fund --

PHILLIP: Part of the government is shut down. At some point in recent weeks, the president said, OK, let's reopen the government. We'll do it under these circumstances. They haven't come back from their break to do it. Congress does nothing, and --

(LAUGHTER)

MEIJER: That's not true. They fill a lot of airtime.

PHILLIP: Even when even when Trump asks them to, sometimes they still do nothing. So how long is this going to go on?

MEIJER: Well, the other question is, how long has it been going on for? I mean, Congress being weak and enfeebled goes back, I mean, the better part of this millennia. It has been an ongoing trend under presidents of both parties and Congresses of both parties that they say, you know what? We have an imperial presidency. They're going to have the pen and the phone. They're going to write their executive orders. We don't really want to have to put our names on a vote that may get us into some trouble. So it's easier to just pass the buck. And that is --

MCGOWAN: That's untrue because the 117th Congress got a whole lot done, a ridiculous amount done.

MEIJER: Correct, under -- but how much of that was done not at the president, President Biden's wishing?

MCGOWAN: No, this president is dictating by executive order.

MEIJER: Every president is dictating by executive order.

MCGOWAN: No, they are not all doing it. He has done it so much more. He is literally unilaterally controlling the entire government. There are three branches of government, and the Congress has a job, and they are not doing it. They haven't been usurped --

MEIJER: We are going to vigorously agree in a second here.

MCGOWAN: They have been abdicated their responsibility, and it is Republican control in both places. Republican control. The Republicans who are not taking. You said the Democrats have it. And the thing is, the Republicans have the majority, so they could absolutely get things done. And they're not getting things done because they just wait at the command of the president. You're listening right here to Kevin McCarthy talking about how the president is both the whip and the speaker and the president, and that is the case.

MEIJER: Your respect for the filibuster aside, I think we have a legitimate problem when we have a Congress that doesn't feel like it has a sense of ownership. And I 100 percent -- this is where we're going to agree. I think that one of the longest lasting and best things that Donald Trump could do is say, you know what? I'm going to be the last imperial presidency. I'm going to right away. Hey, hey.

(LAUGHTER)

MCGOWAN: Hey, oh my God, hell just froze over. What are you talking about? He's talking about his third term? What we're looking at right now is --

PHILLIP: Why would why does Congress feel like they don't have owner -- like, why?

MCGOWAN: Because there are a bunch of --

(CROSS TALK)

HERNDON: Congress has given up its own power. I mean, no one has forced Republican members of Congress to abdicate to Donald Trump. They could stand up against him. I feel like the original kind of core problem here is that districts are being increasingly written in gerrymandered ways so that Congress is increasingly partisan. There's less competitive seats. And so in general, we have less political incentive for them to do anything, because the only thing they're currently worried about is losing a primary from their left.

PHILLIP: That's true. But I also think that those people who are being elected in these ruby red, ruby blue districts or whatever, they don't even know how to legislate.

HERNDON: Fair, fair.

PHILLIP: They don't even -- the concept of working with the other side to get something done is not how they got elected. They got elected by throwing fireballs at the other side. And that is not how you govern. And we're in an era of everybody just trying to be the loudest voice and nobody trying to get anything done.

ENTEN: As someone who has been accused of being the loudest voice in the room. I would just say that, look, we have --

PHILLIP: Which you often are.

ENTEN: I know, right? It's not that hard for me.

Look, the majority of Republicans say, you know, if they disagree with Donald Trump, they should voice that opposition to them. You have a majority of Democrats, a clear majority who really want their Democratic leadership to fight back more. And, you know, I think of a Republican who fights back against Donald Trump, I think of Thomas Massie, right, who obviously has a primary challenge on his hand. Well, if you look at the prediction markets, you look at the polling data, he's actually favored to win that primary. Donald Trump is very powerful, but he is not as powerful as a lot of Republicans think that he is.

PHILLIP: So Lindsey Graham this week suggested that while he apparently did not think that Trump needed to go to Congress to go to war, Trump needs to come to Congress to end the war. He basically says that if there's a peace deal between the United States and Iran, that needs to go to Congress for a vote. How does that work? [10:35:05]

MEIJER: I mean, if it's a treaty, then yes, it does. I mean, obviously it doesn't need to happen if it's an agreement between the president of the United States and whoever is in charge in Iran in order to do that. If were trying to pick apart --

PHILLIP: Why, but, I mean, but, hold on, why is it that that part of the Constitution, the treaty part, is the one that he cares about, but the war part is the one that he doesn't care about? I don't understand that. And I don't think, to be honest, the American people also don't understand that.

I think you're right that they are chicken about taking votes. But I also think that Americans are very unhappy with that. And that's one of the reasons that this war is so unpopular.

MCGOWAN: If I could just be a giant civics nerd for a moment, I think one of the reasons Congress doesn't work is, A, because we have too much money in politics, and so people are looking to see how they can stay in their one little role, and, B, because there's not enough members of congress. We are so helplessly overrepresented by one person to 700,000 to a million people. They're supposed to represent that, like the entire state of, the entire section of Las Vegas is one congressional representative. Like that's the numbers that they're representing. If we were actually in line with our peer nations, our representatives would represent somewhere between 100,000 and 300,000 people, which means that we would have way more members of Congress, which means it wouldn't be this easy for these people to just be like, Thomas Massie is the one voice speaking up, and all we would need is like three or four more to vote with the Democrats, and we could get stuff done. But everyone is just stuck in their corners at this point, and it's not helping us at all. And I think we need to reimagine how we do the American government if its not going to carry on like this.

PHILLIP: That would be an unpopular opinion, I think.

(LAUGHTER)

HERNDON: More members of Congress.

MCGOWAN: Yes, more representation.

HERNDON: It's really important, they become influencers. Like they gum the Congress to raise money to make their voice a little louder, and then they can leave, because it's not as if legislating is the point. And so you're increasingly seeing people run for Congress as a means for fame. Think about Fishback in Florida. Think about Dan Bilzerian thinking about running in other places. It is a means for microphone because it's become so removed from the actual day-to-day job.

PHILLIP: And when they abandoned that idea, like Marjorie Taylor Greene did, then they get kicked out.

HERNDON: Yes. PHILLIP: So it's sort of the incentive structure --

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: The incentive structure is a little warped.

All right, next for us, you've heard the criticisms of millennials, gen z and alpha. But are the baby boomers the most selfish generation? Chris Christie sparks a provocative debate.

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[10:42:18]

PHILLIP: The oldest baby boomers are turning 80 this year, and that includes the current leader of the free world, Donald Trump. They came of age through the civil rights movement in Vietnam and passed midlife during 9/11 and the financial crisis. But in addition to being witnesses to some pivotal events in American history, they are -- are they full of themselves?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: I call this the last gasp of the most selfish generation in American history. The baby boomers, the most selfish generation in American history, the most self-centered generation in American history, the least sacrificing generation in American history. And, you know, you look at Biden and Trump in particular, and they personify that. And how do they do it? Trump every day shows us. Biden, by running again proved what a selfish, selfish man he is. I'm the only one who can beat Donald Trump. Well, there you go. You made your own history happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Is he right? Is he wrong? Leigh?

MCGOWAN: Yes. Look, I think the selfishness comes from these boomers that were handed a series of perfect opportunities and then thought they earned it all themselves. Like you were saying earlier that the boomers bought their house for four raspberries, and then they're selling it for $3 million, whereas like, you know, if I was trying to buy a starter house now in my 40s, here I am, and it's going to be $1.4 million, $1.5 million. It's not that we're buying too much avocado toast. It's that the world has absolutely changed.

And the problem is, is that the people who are making the laws for the rules, the people who are making the rules don't live in the same world we do. They don't understand the world we are. If I went to college when my boomer dad paid for it, thank you, he paid for it, it was $11,000. My son just got into college. It's $75,000. That's not me working less hard. That's not me having more lattes. That's that the world is completely changed, and the people making the rules, who are all my dad's age for the most part, don't understand it. So a lot of them need to know when to move on. Now, I want to give credit to --

PHILLIP: The when to move on part is --

MCGOWAN: That's important. But I really do want to say, because I know that boomers get very upset. I want to give credit, because there are a lot of boomers who get a really bad rap. And a lot of it is because we allow it to happen. But they are in many ways the best part of America, too. Postwar babies, they got all that stuff and the financial boom, but they were also the ones that fought for women's rights and fought for civil rights and fought for worker's rights. So we can't forget that they were on the front lines. And I know there's a lot of boomers right now that I work with that are like, excuse me, I was there for the first women's rights movement. Like, don't tell me I'm selfish now, but I think it's the people in leadership that are problematic. And I think those are the ones that need to understand --

PHILLIP: The one who don't know how to move -- I think what Christie was also referring to is this it's time to exit the stage.

[10:45:05]

MCGOWAN: Correct.

PHILLIP: And there's a sense that actually, what is it, gen, the generation before them that is going to get kind of skipped over.

MCGOWAN: Do you mean x? Did you just forget what x was?

ENTEN: Gen x.

MCGOWAN: Oh my god, she forgot what it was.

PHILLIP: I lose track of all the generations. Gen x might be skipped over. And we might go straight to like the millennials. And I don't know. And that's largely because we had two 80 something year old presidents in a row.

ENTEN: I would note there was a bit of baby boomer slander by the former governor of New Jersey because Joe Biden was actually a member of the silent generation.

PHILLIP: And I should also say that Chris Christie, if you if you go by this 1946, 1964, technically, Chris Christie --

ENTEN: Well, well, well, well, well, well.

PHILLIP: Young, but still in boomer.

PHILLIP: Still in it. Look, I mean, if you look at the polling data, you know, I know that a Harvard, you know, put out a poll that, you know, essentially was looking at younger folks, and they don't believe that, you know, baby boomers essentially, you know, are looking out for them, have their interests at heart. And so, you know, I look at that polling data, and it certainly matches the rhetoric that I've certainly heard, "OK, boomer,"? you know, that type of thing.

But then I also, here you can see it on the gear, you know, elected officials, part of the baby boomer generation care about me. Look at that, just 16 percent agree. We're talking about 41 percent who disagree. I think, you know, you rarely see polling as clear as that as on the screen.

But then I also think about my mother, right? Who I'm not going to say how old she is exactly, but I will say that she is a baby boomer, and I've never met someone who is so selfless in my in my life, who is always looking out for me, who I trust 100 percent of the time. So look, the polling data says one thing, but my heart and my experiences say something else.

HERNDON: What a shoutout to mom.

PHILLIP: Listen, I'm not trying to get anybody in trouble at home with their mamas, OK? So don't get it wrong.

ENTEN: I'm just saying truth. I go by the facts and the figures.

PHILLIP: But the policy level, I think, is where we're --

HERNDON: Listen, I'll say it. I think the former governor is absolutely correct. I think that baby boomers have held on to power. I think there is resentment from younger generations who feel as if that pathway to growth has been blocked, and who just don't feel as if they represent the same type of world as us.

You know, I find gen z, gen alpha, a little annoying, but, you know, a little annoying. But we've all been molded in the darkness. Weve all been molded in a political system that's been broken down. We've all been shaped by kind of a, I would say, a cynicism, to be honest, particularly about politics. Baby boomers aren't like that. Politics has worked for them. They were born on third base and thought they hit a triple. And so I think that when they talk to us, it sometimes feels as if they don't recognize how those structures have changed.

PHILLIP: Quickly, yes.

MEIJER: Or the fact that for federal tax dollars that go out the door, ten times goes to the over 65 population than to the under 26. We should be a country that's prioritizing, supporting the rising generations, and that's going to require some rebalancing.

PHILLIP: All right guys, next for us, the panel's unpopular opinions, what they're not afraid to say out loud.

But first, Kara Swisher dives into the booming longevity industry, becoming both reporter and test subject as she explores anti-aging biotech, A.I., and more. A CNN original series, "Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever" premieres tonight at 9:00 p.m. on CNN, and the next day on CNN app.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:53:03]

PHILLIP: We're back, and its time for your unpopular opinions. Astead, you're first. HERNDON: My unpopular opinion is for our media industry. The White

House Correspondents' Dinner is embarrassing. We need to stop going. And it is only making things look worse for us. Not only is this a president that's been uniquely hostile to the press and the First Amendment, but also just like we can be cool in other ways. Like I think my former employer at "The Times" has it right. Don't go, don't have that performance of camaraderie. And by all means, party it up, but don't do it so embarrassingly.

PHILLIP: I was going to say, are you going to the parties, though?

HERNDON: I might find my way to a party.

(LAUGHTER)

HERNDON: I might find my way to a party. But you won't show -- you won't find me at the dinner.

MCGOWAN: It's a different nerd prom.

PHILLIP: All right, Harry.

ENTEN: You know, I look at the data, and the data tells me as it's warming up, summer is the most popular season out there in America. And I say I dislike summer. I am done with summer. Put those kids back in school. Look, we sleep worse during the summer. The crime rate is up during the summer. And you just, you just look at all of it, it just boggles my mind that summers most popular season. Bring on fall. Bring on football. America, I know you're with me.

PHILLIP: Harry, I don't know what we are going to do with you.

MCGOWAN: Just say you don't like shorts.

ENTEN: My legs are gross.

MCGOWAN: Mine is so fluffy. I mean, look, there's a movie from 2008 that no one liked and no one saw and has 15 percent on rotten tomatoes. And its called "Made of Honor." And its one of the best romantic comedies out there that no one saw. And that is my absolutely unpopular opinion. But Patrick Dempsey, Kevin McKidd, yes, Michelle Monahan. It's freaking hilarious.

PHILLIP: Circa 2008.

MCGOWAN: I love it.

PHILLIP: That was actually, the heyday of romcoms.

MCGOWAN: It's the heyday of romcoms, and it got totally overlooked.

PHILLIP: All right, Peter.

MEIJER: OK, well, I'm just going to say what's on everyone's minds. Hardcover books should not come out before the paperback version. It is absolute B.S. I don't want to be carrying around something that's 20 percent larger by surface area, weighs twice as much.

[10:55:02]

I want to have that book in my pocket. I want to be able to grab it and just read it whenever I have a moment, and not like, what am I going to set it on like a nightstand and kind of sit there with like a candle, like a Victorian era child?

MCGOWAN: You know who likes it? The boomers.

(LAUGHTER)

MEIJER: But you know what I'll do instead? I want to wait for the paperback, so I'll get it on kindle. And I think the publishing industry is killing themselves. It's unfortunate. It's un-American. Stop it.

PHILLIP: All right, everyone, thank you very much.

Thanks for watching "TABLE FOR FIVE". You can catch me every weeknight at 10:00 p.m. eastern with our Newsnight roundtable and anytime on your favorite social media, X, Instagram, and TikTok. But in the meantime, CNN's coverage continues right now.

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