Return to Transcripts main page
The Situation Room
Judith Miller Testifies in CIA Leak Case; Bill Bennett Defends Comments; Second Wildfire Flares Near L.A.
Aired September 30, 2005 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington. And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where news and information from around the world arrive in one place simultaneously.
Happening now, strange turns in the CIA leak investigation. A journalist finally testifies after spending 85 days in jail. But her powerful source inside the White House says he let her off the hook months ago. What's going on?
A former cabinet secretary, a self-proclaimed advocate of virtue is under fire. Bill Bennett is defending his comments about abortion, blacks and crime. Some Democrats are outraged. Is the president also piling on?
And it's 1:00 p.m. near Los Angeles where firefighters are making headway against the monster blaze. Will the weather keep cooperating or fan the flames again? We'll return live to the front lines.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
I want to get to our lead story this hour in a moment, but I want to you take a look at these live pictures we're still getting in from Southern California. This is the second fire that has now erupted. You're looking at these live pictures, Burbank, outside of Los Angeles, a fire there that has started over the past several hours and continuing.
And there's a second fire that we have been reporting on for the past 48 hours in Simi Valley, already 20,000 acres there, 20,000 acres have been scorched, approximately 20 percent of the fire estimated -- is estimated as having been contained. Still a lot of work to do in containing both of these wildfires. We're going to go live to Los Angeles and the fires later this hour. But just wanted to update you on what's going on right now.
This hour here in Washington, the "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller is a free woman. And a grand jury is weighing her long- sought testimony. Questions though still remain about why Miller spent 85 days in jail and about the connections between the White House and the leak of a CIA operative's identity.
Miller says she finally agreed to testify after her source personally released her from her promise of confidentiality, and after the special prosecutor agreed she could testify only about that source.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDITH MILLER, NEW YORK TIMES REPORTER: I was a journalist doing my job, protecting my source until my source freed me to perform my civic duty to testify.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: While Miller never publicly identified her source, the "New York Times", her own newspaper, reports it was the vice president's chief of staff, Lewis Scooter Libby. Libby's lawyer says he and his client gave Miller clearance to testify more than a year ago, raising questions about why she and her attorneys didn't try to get Libby's personal assurance before she went to jail.
I asked Miller's lawyer, Robert Bennett, about that here in THE SITUATION ROOM in the past hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT BENNETT, JUDITH MILLER'S LAWYER: It was really the responsibility of Mr. Libby to come forward. Judy Miller felt very strongly that she should not initiate things. And I'm not going to go really beyond that.
And Judy is now satisfied that Mr. Libby came forward and voluntarily and personally gave her the waiver and release from confidentiality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The CIA leak story all began more than two years ago with President Bush's 2003 State of the Union Address. The president made the case for invading Iraq by suggesting Saddam Hussein posed a potential nuclear threat. From there, the legal web and political controversy unfolded.
The former U.S. ambassador, Joe Wilson, came forward to call the president's claim about Iraq's nuclear intentions -- quote -- "highly doubtful." Wilson had investigated similar allegations on a trip to Africa for the CIA.
Soon after, Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame Wilson, was publicly identified as a CIA operative in a "Chicago Sun Times" newspaper column by CNN political analyst Robert Novak.
It's against the law to reveal the name of an undercover CIA officer knowingly, so the Justice Department launched a criminal investigation.
The story heated up again this past summer when two journalists caught up in the leak probe faced possible jail time for refusing to reveal their sources. Unlike Judith Miller, Matt Cooper of "Time" magazine avoided jail time by testifying much earlier on. With the permission of his source, Cooper publicly identified his source as the president's top political adviser and deputy White House chief of staff, Karl Rove. Rove had previously denied he was linked to the leak.
Now let's bring in our national correspondent, Bob Franken; our White House correspondent, Dana Bash, to update on us on what's going on now.
Bob, I'll start with you. You're over at the courthouse. It was a dramatic day today.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was a dramatic day, dramatic because Judith Miller had spent those 85 days in prison, in jail, at the Alexandria Jail, which, Alexandria, of course, a nearby suburb of Washington.
This time she was able to walk freely out of the U.S. District Court, that after she testified before the grand jury for about two hours. Now grand jury proceedings are secret. We only know what a variety of sources have said, that she was ready to identify her source -- this comes from several people -- as Scooter Libby, Lewis Libby, who is Vice President Cheney's chief of staff.
His lawyer says, as you point out, that Libby did not knowingly identify Valerie Plame as an undercover CIA agent, a similar claim made by Karl Rove. And the law -- we talked to the author of the law -- specifies that this must be an assertive, knowledgeable identification of uncovering somebody who is classified by somebody in government. So it's a fairly high bar.
And the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, said he absolutely required reporters to talk about their sources. Several other journalists did testify under varying degrees of having their arms twisted. Judith Miller, to our knowledge, becomes the last one.
BLITZER: Bob, stand by for a second. I want to bring in our White House correspondent, Dana Bash.
Dana, how worried are they at the White House now that Lewis Libby has been identified as a source for one of these journalists, Karl Rove earlier, what's the sense over there?
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, Wolf, I'll tell you what the official comment here is, and that is, no comment. The White House is not talking about this at all. And that has really been the practice here since the discussions about Karl Rove came out when Matt Cooper testified.
And that all stems from Scott McClellan a couple of years ago actually telling reporters that he asked Lewis Libby, Scooter Libby, and Karl Rove and one other top official if they were involved, and they all said no. So since then he has not said a word about it.
But in answer to your question about the reaction, look, I mean, they understand that this is something that the shoe is going to drop one way or the other, or maybe it won't at some point. But this -- her talking about Scooter Libby, is not a surprise, given the fact that we already knew Matt Cooper published in "Time" magazine that he talked to Scooter Libby about this issue. I think that the surprise is more, when -- as you mentioned earlier, from the perspective of Libby's attorney, as to how this all came to pass, whether there was a miscommunication or what was really behind the concept that he thought that he said that she was free to talk a year ago, and apparently she said that she didn't think that was actually the case. She didn't trust the waiver.
BLITZER: All right. We're going to continue to follow this story. Dana Bash at the White House. Bob Franken at the courthouse here in Washington. Thanks to both of you very much.
Let's check in with our Jack Cafferty. It's a second chance to update our viewers on his thoughts on the big stories. I don't know what your big story is this hour, but what's going on, Jack?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, here's the deal, Wolf. If this thing here at CNN doesn't work out for you and me, the Bush administration, that's the place you want to work these days.
You screw up the response to Katrina as the head of FEMA, you resign, but then you get to stay on as a consultant.
You face a criminal indictment in the state of Texas as the House majority leader, but you get to stay on us as a powerful adviser to the GOP leadership in the House.
It's good to be Michael Brown and Tom DeLay, unless, of course, you're a taxpayer who might think this stuff is wrong. And I'm betting most taxpayers might think this stuff is wrong.
Can you spell arrogance? Here's the question this hour. Are the Republicans making a mistake by continuing to support Tom DeLay? CaffertyFile - one word -- @CNN.com. Your answers coming up.
BLITZER: Did you se my interview with him yesterday here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Jack?
CAFFERTY: I did not.
BLITZER: Well, you'll have to look at that tape. It was a very good interview, if I say so myself.
CAFFERTY: You got some very high marks from our viewers. And I did see the confrontation to Mr. Bennett where he took great offense to the fact that you dare bring up these statements by his brother today. And I don't quite understand how he comes on a live news program, he's the brother of a guy who's been all over the news since 6:00 this morning, and he seems totally taken aback by the mere suggestion that somebody might want to ask his thoughts on the latest kettle of soup that his brother has gotten himself into. What up with that?
BLITZER: I simply assumed, and maybe -- obviously my assumption was wrong, I simply assumed he would recognize that I would ask him that question. But, you know, you never can rely on assumptions.
Thanks, Jack. We'll get back to you very, very soon. Jack Cafferty in New York.
More fallout from those comments made by a top conservative commentator. We'll tell you what Bill Bennett said if you missed it, and what's being said about his words.
Plus, much more on that CIA leak scandal. Should the White House be nervous at all? We'll get some expert opinion in our "Strategy Session."
And we'll also go live back to the hot zone. We're keeping a very close eye on those fierce fires in L.A.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now those heated words about abortion, race, and crime. The former Education secretary turned radio talk show host, Bill Bennett, pushed those hot buttons. Today critics are firing right back and they're not simply the obvious suspects.
Our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, is joining us now live from New York with more on the fallout. Hi, Jeff.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Hi, Wolf. Well, it was Wednesday morning on Bill Bennett's syndicated radio show when a caller suggested that Social Security was in trouble because legalized abortions had reduced the number of taxpayers over the years. Bennett rejected that argument and offered up another example of what he called a ridiculous ends-justifies-the-means notion.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM BENNETT, FMR. EDUCATION SECRETARY: You can abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down.
GREENFIELD (voice-over): Prominent Democrats like House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi denounced the well-known conservative.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Secretary Bennett's words reflect a narrow-minded spirit that has no place in American discourse.
GREENFIELD: But it wasn't just Democrats. Scott McClellan from the White House said -- quote -- "The president believes the comments were not appropriate." Bennett seems to have been thinking about a best- selling book, "Freakonomics," which put forth the notion that crime in America has dropped dramatically in the last decade in part because the millions of legal abortions since 1973 reduced the number of unwanted children, children likely to grow up neglected, abused, and prone to crime. But you could make similar arguments about other classes. For instance, if you aborted every male baby, crime would go down, since three-quarters of those arrested are males.
Or how about locking up everyone between 15 and 25, since young people commit crimes out of all proportion to the population?
If you wanted an end to corporate crime, would you seriously consider aborting the babies of rich, privileged white people?
W. BENNETT: I have directly addressed the issue of black crime in America because it's a serious problem, and it's a serious problem for all of us. But it's particularly serious for black people because they are the victims.
GREENFIELD: The problem is that any musing about race can often cause problems. Los Angeles Dodger executive Al Campanis, a champion of integrating baseball, lost his job in 1987 after suggesting blacks may "lack the necessities" to manage.
JIMMY "THE GREEK" SNYDER, BOOKMAKER: A black is a better athlete to begin with.
GREENFIELD: Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder lost his broadcast perch in 1988 for suggesting blacks had been bred in slave days to be physically stronger.
And Reagan's Interior Secretary James Watt lost his job after speaking dismissively of diversity in his advisory group.
JAMES WATT, FMR. INTERIOR SECRETARY: I have a black, I have a woman, two Jews and a cripple.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD: The underlying fact here, Wolf, is that race has been the most incendiary issue in American life since the very beginning. Even now, Hurricane Katrina has been portrayed by some as proof of official indifference to black suffering. Others seized on the now- discredited stories of mass rapes and murders to argue that this community was in the grip of a moral breakdown.
One hundred and forty years after the Civil War ended, 51 years after Brown versus Board of Education, Wolf, this conversation does not get any easier.
BLITZER: Even the White House today said his comments were not appropriate, referring to Bill Bennett's comments. How should he deal -- based on history, based on precedence, what should he be doing right now? We heard him saying, if you listen to the entire conversation, you look at my whole record, you take it in context, you understand, I didn't say anything wrong?
GREENFIELD: Well, one thing might be useful, to not use comments by people as weapons to politically bludgeon them. You remember when Richard Durbin compared -- he said Abu Ghraib is something that might have happened in the Soviet Union or in the Nazi Germany. And his critics said he shouldn't be comparing Americans to Soviets or Nazis, which really wasn't what he was doing.
I think in this case, Bill Bennett used a very inartful, to use that word, way to make a point. He was actually saying, look, you can't link the abortion issue to things like economics or things like crime rates. It's an issue in and of itself. And while I think, unlike some of the examples I gave you, he was not trying to be dismissive or racist, I think what happened here was that the way he phrased that really triggered the kind of reaction you get almost whenever you try to talk about race.
Race is the hardest thing in this country to talk about, Wolf. People will go on television and talk about sex now, you know, with great abandon. But race is one of those issues, it's the American dilemma, as Gunnar Myrdal said. And it always -- maybe someday it won't be, but it will be for a long time to come. And this really was like throwing a match into a dynamite warehouse.
BLITZER: Jeff Greenfield, our senior analyst, Jeff, thank you very much.
After 85 days behind bars, a key figure in the CIA leak scandal finally testifies before a grand jury. What did Judith Miller say and what's the political fallout? We'll get some expert opinion in our "Strategy Session."
Plus, supreme speculation. Who will President Bush pick to replace Sandra Day O'Connor on the high court?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A second fire has erupted outside of Los Angeles, this one in Burbank. I'll show you some live pictures that we're getting in from the Burbank fire. We're told now about 80 acres have been scorched. No homes are threatened, at least not yet. Firefighters are on the scene. They're trying to deal with this second fire that has erupted in Burbank, California, right now.
There's another fire, though, that's been going on now for two days. And this hour, in fact, the California governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, is set to fly over that giant wildfire outside of Los Angeles.
On the ground some residents are standing guard in front of their own homes, hoping to protect them from the flames.
CNN's Peter Viles is joining us now from Simi Valley. He has got more. We see a lot of smoke behind you, Peter.
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You sure do, Wolf. This is the most active part of this fire today. The smoke behind me may be a mile due south of me and heading north. Firefighters headed in there tell us that this flare-up here is making a run at that ridge. And that is really troublesome because if it makes it over that ridge, it becomes a possibility that it gets here to Simi Valley, to this very heavily populated suburban neighborhood.
That said, they think they do have this thing, I wouldn't say, contained, but they think they have the upper hand on it. And they are really hitting this thing hard. They're sending in nine helicopters and they're just going in one after another. Then they all fill up with water and go back. It's an extremely dangerous run because I don't know if you can see it in this shot, but there are power lines at the top of that ridge. The helicopters have to go just over the power lines and then dive down into the canyon to drop water.
But they have got to put this out there because if they don't, it's going to make a run at this ridge and then they have to worry about the possibility that it gets up here to Simi Valley.
Wolf.
BLITZER: And do they think they're making some serious progress today? We had heard yesterday only 5 percent was contained. Today they're suggesting 20 percent. But there's still a lot of work to be done.
VILES: Definitely they believe they're making progress, 20 percent was the number today. They'll update that number this evening. But I did talk to one firefighter, an engineer on her way in. I said, has this been a good day for you? And she looked at me with a big smile, Wolf. She said, any day we're winning is a good day, and right now we are winning.
They do think they have the upper hand on this fire, Wolf, but they also have a tremendous amount of respect for it. This flare-up behind me right now is the number one concern of this army of 3,000 firefighters trying to get this thing under control.
BLITZER: Do we expect to hear comments from Governor Schwarzenegger at some point today?
VILES: I don't know for sure. I imagine he will. But his visit is more of pat the troops on the back kind of a visit, you know. Check out the fires, yes, but also show some support for the firefighters. And my understanding is his first stop is in Thousand Oaks, which was the focus yesterday, the fear that the southern end of the fire might go further south and cross over the 101 Freeway into heavily populated areas -- that now no longer the major concern. The major concern up here on the northern reaches of this fire in Simi Valley. But we understand they're going to Thousand Oaks first and then maybe get an aerial tour of the fire.
BLITZER: Peter Viles, thanks very much. We'll check back with you. Peter Viles in Southern California watching those fires.
Zain Verjee is joining us now from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other important stories making news. Hi, Zain. ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf.
More worries of a potentially devastating hurricane. This one is near the California peninsula. Hurricane Otis has winds hovering about 140 miles an hour. Officials in the threatened area began evacuating people from low-lying areas today. The U.S. National Hurricane Center says Otis could become a Category 2 hurricane by tomorrow.
Some residents of eight New Orleans zip codes are returning home today for the first time since Hurricane Katrina. But federal officials on the scene say those whose homes are uninhabitable are on their own. They say government-supported temporary housing, including mobile homes and travel trailers won't be available for at least a week.
In South Africa today, a white farmer was jailed for life for feeding a black worker to lions, and a black laborer received 15 years, partly suspended. The racially-charged murder shocked the South African nation and highlighted the abuse of rural black laborers.
He spent the past two years working hard to get ready and he may have spent as much as $20 million. Now American scientist Gregory Olsen is ready for his vacation, a trip to the International Space Station as a tourist. Olsen, the third private space traveler, is due to blast of aboard Russian spacecraft about seven hours from now.
Wolf, that's a pretty good holiday.
BLITZER: Yes. Not for me, though. Thanks, Zain.
VERJEE: I'm starting to save for it now.
BLITZER: Yes, that would take a long time. Zain Verjee reporting for us. We'll get back to you, Zain, thank you very much.
So were they appropriate or inappropriate, the comments I'm referring to, involving Bill Bennett? He's now a radio talk show host, a former education secretary. Either way, the conservative commentator has created an uproar. Bennett has just put out a written statement. We'll tell you what he says. That's coming up.
And later, it was the indictment that shook this town. We'll take a closer look at the fallout from the Tom DeLay case.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're now back in THE SITUATION ROOM. Welcome back.
The CIA leak probe and the controversial comments by the former Education secretary, Bill Bennett, about blacks and abortions, we're going to talk about both of those subjects today in our "Strategy Session."
Our Democratic strategist, Donna Brazile, is joining us; and our Republican strategist, Bay Buchanan, both CNN contributors.
Bill Bennett has just issued a lengthy statement, a written statement. Among other things, he says this: "A thought experiment about public policy on national radio should not have received the condemnations it has. Anyone paying attention to this debate should be offended by those who have selectively quoted me, distorted my meaning and taken out of context the dialogue I engaged in this week."
"Such distortions," he goes on to say, "from leaders of organizations and parties is a disgrace not only to the organizations and institutions they serve, but to the First Amendment. I renounce all forms of bigotry," he says. "My record in trying to provide opportunities for, as well as save the lives of minorities in this country, stands up just fine."
Donna, what do you make of this?
DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, Mr. Bennett had an opportunity to clear the air and to apologize and to set the record straight. Instead, what he's doing is attacking those who essentially called upon him to apologize. I think the right, morally thing for the self-proclaimed man of virtue is to apologize and to really have a dialogue about race and poverty, race and crime, that both people, people of color, can participate in, and not be so derogatory.
BLITZER: Bay?
BAY BUCHANAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Ridiculous. The -- any criticism of what he said is either ignorant or malicious, because he said nothing wrong. And, in fact, any educated person knows that the argument he is using is the Socratic method, something the Jesuits teach you very, very well. And you take the logic of somebody's agreement which you disagree, you take it to the full extent and you give an outrageous statement that flows from that logic and show the weakness of the argument.
That's all he was doing. And he explained that it would be reprehensible, he would never do this, but see how ridiculous the argument is, sir. That's all he did. There should be no criticism whatsoever.
BRAZILE: Absolutely he should be criticized because he said at the end -- what he said was morally reprehensible. Then he went back to say the most ignorant thing you could ever say, and that is, crime rate will still go down. I think that's what people have taken offense, is that after he used the so-called Socratic argument, he went back and made the point again. And that's why people are denouncing him and they will continue to denounce his remarks until he gets it right.
BUCHANAN: Well, but the facts of matter are that's there's a higher incident of -- in the black community than in white community, of crime. That's just the fact of the matter. And so, indeed, it would reduce it. Now, if the whole thing is -- as he said, a reprehensible idea -- I mean, he's not suggesting it, he's not promoting it. BRAZILE: That's not the facts, Bay. That's another, you know, stereotype that people have out there about people of color and African-Americans in general, is that there are higher incidence of crime. The truth is, if we gave every American an equal opportunity to achieve his or her dreams, we wouldn't have such a high a crime rate in this country to begin with.
BUCHANAN: I would agree with that statement without any problem.
BLITZER: All right, let's listen to what the Democratic leader in the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, said on the House floor yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Secretary Bennett's words reflect a narrow-minded spirit that has no place in the American discourse. These words do not reflect the values of hope and opportunity for the future. They do not reflect the values of the American people, Democrat or Republican.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Is this story, this uproar, going to stay for a while or go away?
BUCHANAN: It's going to go away. It's a one-day story, maybe two, since the White House made a response.
BLITZER: The White House said it was inappropriate.
BUCHANAN: It was inappropriate. They should have said nothing or they should say we agree with him, it's a reprehensible idea. I mean, they didn't have to get into this. It's is a one-day story. This is a radio talk show host, for heaven's sake. And his position is very clear, if you listen to what he said. So I don't see it going anywhere whatsoever, and I don't think Nancy makes a good point at all.
BRAZILE: Well, the president was right to issue a statement. He's right to take a leadership role in this, because, after all, it was a very unfortunate set of remarks.
But I also believe that we need to have a larger dialogue about race in this country. And Jeff Greenfield is right. Eery time we try to have this discussion, people's feelings get hurt and we leave the table. But we need a dialogue on race in America.
BLITZER: Let's switch gears and talk about Judith Miller. She testified today after, what, 85 days in jail. How worried should people at the White House, Bay, be right now that top officials may be indicted down the road?
We have no idea what the special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's going to do. But there's clearly some public evidence right now that both Karl Rove and Scooter Libby did provide information that, perhaps, they shouldn't have provided to journalists. BUCHANAN: Sure. You know, I don't think what we know now today, Wolf, changes anything. She testified. But -- one year ago, Libby told her she could testify...
BLITZER: Well, he issued a blanket...
BUCHANAN: Yes, he did, and so...
BLITZER: ... waiver of the confidentiality.
BUCHANAN: So nothing's changed. For whatever reason, she wanted to be a martyr and went to prison. I mean, she didn't have to. She could have testified 81 days ago. So I don't think anything changes.
But you're always worried when there's an investigation that comes into the White House. This is something you're going to be concerned about. And obviously, we all hope, as certainly I do, that nothing comes of this investigation whatsoever.
BLITZER: What do you think?
BRAZILE: Well, first of all, it's been 809 days since the identity of this person was revealed. We should...
BLITZER: Valerie Plame was...
BRAZILE: We should get to the bottom of it. And the White House should do everything in its power in the next couple of weeks to get to the bottom of it and to get control of this story. It's a distraction to the White House. We know something happened, something occurred inside the perimeter there. We just don't know all of the facts. And that's what we'll know soon.
BLITZER: My suspicion, for what it's worth, is that proving the initial crime, revealing the identity of a covert CIA officer's name, that's very hard to prove. And it's probably not going to be an indictable offense right now.
But, as we all know in Washington, if someone lied to an FBI agent, someone lied before a grand jury, the cover-up very often is what will get you obstruction of justice or perjury, as opposed to the initial crime. Remember, Martha Stewart went to jail...
BUCHANAN: Exactly.
BLITZER: ... not because she was even charged with insider trading. She went to jail because she lied to an FBI agent.
BRAZILE: Absolutely.
BLITZER: That got her. So I fear that a lot of -- I suspect that a lot of people right now are very worried about that.
BUCHANAN: But, Wolf, there's no question that that is the greatest concern. But you know that. I certainly know that. Put me before a grand jury, I'll tell every secret I've got. I'm not going to lie. Certainly, Libby and Rove and whomever else was before that grand jury is smart enough to have known that as well.
BLITZER: What do you think?
BRAZILE: Well, look, we'll know in a couple weeks as the grand jury winds down and the special prosecutor Mr. Fitzgerald lays a case before the American people. We know that some stonewalling happened and occurred and we'll get to the bottom of it.
BLITZER: We'll see if anyone was lying.
Thanks very much, Donna and Bay, good discussion.
It's Friday and that means it's time for our award -- to award our "Play of the Week." Only Bill Schneider can do that. He'll do the honors. That's coming up next.
Plus, President Bush will be in Camp David for the weekend. He'll be mulling over the Supreme Court. We'll explain what's going on.
Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The special prosecutor investigating the leak of a CIA operative's identity finally got what he wanted today; namely, the testimony of "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller.
Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider is joining us now. He sees a little trend in the making right now. What are you picking up, Bill?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, this week the legal system was the big political topic. And we're not talking about the Supreme Court. We're talking about the "Play of the Week."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In encouraging us to be daring...
SCHNEIDER: In their 1994 contract with America, after a string of ethics scandals involving Democratic congressional leaders, Republicans attacked what they called the Democratic cycle of scandal and disgrace, and won. Now, the Republicans seem besieged by legal and ethical questions.
This week, Travis County, Texas, District Attorney Ronnie Earle made big news by indicting House Majority Leader Tom DeLay for conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws. DeLay called that "partisan vengeance."
Other prosecutors have also been hard at work. Last month, federal prosecutors indicted Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who had close ties to DeLay, charging him...
R. ALEXANDER ACOSTA, U.S. DIST. ATTY. FOR S. FLORIDA: With fraud and with mail fraud in connection with the September purchase.
SCHNEIDER: A purchase of casino boats. Abramoff denies any wrongdoing. This month federal prosecutors arrested Abramoff's former business partner, who went on to be an official in the White House Budget Office, for lying and obstruction of justice in connection with the investigation of Abramoff.
This week, authorities in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, arrested three men for the 2001 gangland style murder of a businessman with whom Abramoff had feuded. Two of the accused murderers had a business relationship with another Abramoff business associate. Attorneys for Abramoff and his associates say their clients have no knowledge of who committed the murder.
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist is under investigation for his stock dealings.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: I will cooperate with the Securities and Exchange Commission and the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York to provide the information they need as quickly as possible.
SCHNEIDER: Special federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has been looking into whether a White House official illegally disclosed the name of a CIA agent.
Prosecutors can cause immense political problems for the party in power -- once the Democrats, now the Republican -- which is why actions by prosecutors, local and federal in several different cases, add up to the "Play of the Week."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: They say power corrupts. We say, it certainly seems to keep prosecutors very busy.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider, thank you very much. On our "Political Radar" this Friday, President Bush left for a weekend at Camp David without naming his next Supreme Court nominee. Now that John Roberts has been sworn in as chief justice, an announcement is expected perhaps as soon as Monday, an announcement on Mr. Bush's choice to succeed Sandra Day O'Connor.
The president's spokesman says Mr. Bush has finished consultations with the Senate about prospective nominees and the possible confirmation fight ahead. We'll be watching Monday morning to see what happens.
A day after defending himself on the airwaves, Congressman Tom DeLay is rallying supporters back home in Texas. The House Republican continues to blast the indictment against him, accusing him of conspiracy to violate Texas campaign finance laws.
Here in THE SITUATION ROOM yesterday, DeLay expressed confidence that the "political witch hunt," as he calls it, that sidelined him for the GOP leadership, will be resolved by the end of the year.
Now let's talk a little bit about the political fallout from DeLay's indictment, and his temporary exit, at least for now, as House majority leader.
CNN political analyst Carlos Watson is here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Thanks, Carlos, for joining us. Let's talk about some of the larger ramifications that you're picking up.
CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I think what's interesting is, first of all, we can't count Tom DeLay out, right? Before we do that, we'd have to save Richard Nixon who people thought was gone, and Bill Clinton, so we have got to see the story unfold.
But if he does goes away, not just as a powerful member of the House, but also permanently as majority leader, I think we may be seeing the end of the Gingrich era.
I think, in fact, he might not be the only one currently in congressional Republican leadership, who we may see change over the next two or three years. You know, Speaker Hastert in the past has talked about wanting to retire. Already Roy Blunt, who has stepped up in the interim to be majority leader, has taken a number of knocks.
I think you could see, if you will, the new Gingriches -- not the Newt Gingriches, but the new Gingriches. And in doing that, you may not only see new faces, Wolf, but what I think is significant is you may begin to see a re-branding, if you will, of congressional Republicans, maybe a little less emphasis on social conservative issues which would still be important, but maybe a little more on economic issues. Something to watch is not only the DeLay story unfold, but this whole leadership story.
BLITZER: So you see some potential policy questions being raised by this as well?
WATSON: Very much so. I mean, remember, underlying part of the Tom DeLay question was this battle to do something we typically don't do, which is we usually wait every 10 years to redraw the political lines, the redistricting process. Tom DeLay in part wanted to jump into that early.
His doing that added five or six seats, arguably, to the Republican majority. And so clearly there was a lot of Democratic angst.
But what we should note in the larger context, is this is just one of many things. You've got a dozen states, including California and Ohio who are voting this year on whether to change the way they district. And we've heard that the Supreme Court is taking up two major cases in terms of campaign finance.
And all this says to me that the rules of the game, the rules of how we contest politics in elections and elsewhere are undergoing their most fundamental change in probably 30, 40 years, frankly since the mid-'70s post-Watergate. BLITZER: John Roberts was confirmed by the Senate -- what - 78 to 22. There wasn't a whole lot of controversy. Just as many Democrats voted to confirm as voted to oppose this confirmation. But you're looking at that in a slightly different way.
WATSON: Yes, I think we're going to be surprised by Chief Justice John Roberts. And if you think of people who have been coveting or been interested in a job most of their adult life -- I mean, you think about Bill Clinton being interested in being president since he was a teenager.
In football you think about Jon Gruden who wanted to be a coach. In business, you might think of someone like Jeff Immelt, the CEO of GE. Those people don't come to the job after having wanted it for 25 or 30 years only to make incremental, modest change.
I think we're going to see significant change from John Roberts, despite the fact he's been presented as a guy who's pretty easy going, pretty light. This is a guy who thought about it, was a law clerk for a Supreme Court justice -- to then Supreme Court Justice Rehnquist. And so I expect big changes, not only on policy questions, particularly business and technology, but just in the way the court runs itself.
BLITZER: All right. We'll see. WATSON: We will.
BLITZER: Carlos, good to have you here in Washington.
WATSON: Good to be in THE SITUATION ROOM.
BLITZER: Carlos Watson, you never wanted to be a Supreme Court -- when you were at Stanford Law School, you didn't think about it.
WATSON: I was working hard, but I wasn't thinking about it.
BLITZER: You were editor of law review.
WATSON: I had to work hard.
BLITZER: You could have been. Thanks, Carlos.
WATSON: We've been talking a lot about Tom DeLay. Do you think most Republicans are making a mistake by continuing to support him? Our Jack Cafferty has been going through your e-mail. He's going to join us next.
And in the next hour, returning to New Orleans. Thousands are coming home, but what are they finding?
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go to the CNN Center. Our Zain Verjee is standing by, once again, with a closer look at other stories making news. Zain? VERJEE: Wolf, there's been a car bombing in the Iraqi city of Hilla, about 60 miles north of Baghdad. Police and hospital officials say eight people were killed and 49 injured by the blast outside a vegetable market. A number of women and children are said to be among the victims.
The death toll in yesterday's car bombings in the town of Balad has risen. Officials now say 102 people were killed in three separate attacks, and that number is expected to climb. A hundred and twenty were injured. U.S. forces have detained one person in connection with the attacks.
A dramatic end to a field trip for one San Diego area student. She had to be air-lifted off a mountain when she suffered heat exhaustion during the school hike. Another student also fell over but was eventually able to walk out on her own. Fire officials say that high heat and the high fire danger made for less than ideal conditions for the outing.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Let's get back to Iraq for a second, Zain. Most of the attacks, at least lately, have been the insurgents, mostly Sunnis against the Shiites. How much of a fear is there based on what you're hearing that the Shiites will now start retaliating?
VERJEE: There is a fear of that, Wolf. But, you know, the Shia religious leaders like Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani are appealing for calmness, saying, look, just be patient, just stick with the political process.
Now, you know, the Shias are the majority in Iraq so they actually have a lot to gain with sticking with the political process. The Sunnis that constitute the majority of the insurgency, many of them saying, we're not happy with the political process and the way that things are going, and, you know, on issues such as federalism.
But in the last week, there have been more than 150 Shias that have been killed in Iraq. And there are fears that the sectarian violence will escalate ever since al Qaeda declared war on Shias on September 14, I believe.
BLITZER: And as you know, Zain, in that part of the world, revenge is very, very important. That could really fuel this kind of sectarian strife.
VERJEE: Exactly. And that's the issue. And the concern also is that ahead of the October 15, referendum, that the sectarian violence we're going to see it just going to escalate.
Both Sunnis and Shias have their own militias and they attack and counterattack. So Iraqi and U.S. officials are anticipating that the violence will escalate.
BLITZER: Zain Verjee, we'll get back to you. Thank you very much.
Let's go to New York. Jack Cafferty's been going through your e- mail. He's joining us live -- now live once again. Hi, Jack.
CAFFERTY: How are you doing, Wolf? The House of Representatives, the leadership of the Republican Party announced today that despite the criminal indictment pending against House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, that he would continue to serve as a powerful adviser to House Republicans on issues that come before that chamber.
So the question we're asking is, are the Republicans making a mistake by continuing to support DeLay?
Shirley in Rancho Cordova, California: "I am a Republican. I've been disgusted with Tom DeLay for a long time. And I hope the administration wises up and cleans house of these fools that have been appointed/elected to important positions."
Charles in Illinois writes: "They should get rid of DeLay. It would enhance the Republican Party. But who wants to get hit with a hammer. What a disgusting nickname for any politician to have in this country."
Brian in Rancho Santa Margarita, California: "Please ask Jack to repeat his preamble to asking today's question. I'd like to record his quote, "unbiased and neutral comments as evidence of how best to bait a desired response."
Trebor in Oakland, California: "If a political party abandoned one of their own every time an allegation was leveled, there wouldn't be anyone left in Washington, which may or may not be a bad thing."
And Gideon writes: "Mr. Cafferty is the most pathetic individual on television today. Did Tom DeLay get convicted of something? Did Mr. Cafferty ever hear of innocent until proven guilty? I think Mr. Cafferty needs a serious vacation".
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Gideon has strong views. Jack, thank you very much. We'll get back to you.
CAFFERTY: Can I have a vacation?
BLITZER: You can have a vacation, yes.
Yesterday, I interviewed Tom DeLay right here in THE SITUATION ROOM. They're still talking about that, and his other interviews that he's granted in recent days, on the blogs. Up next, we'll check the situation online.
Plus, raging wildfires in the outskirts of Los Angeles. We'll go live to the front lines in the battle against the blazes. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: It was in THE SITUATION ROOM only yesterday -- that would be Congressman Tom DeLay talking about his indictment. Today we want to tell you what the on-line community is saying about that discussion with the former majority leader, what they're saying about the Judith Miller case as well.
Our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton has more. Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. Congressman Tom DeLay really has been the talk of the blogosphere in the last few days.
And your interview yesterday has been picked up a little bit out there, over at ThinkProgress.org,. This is the blogging arm of the liberal Center for American Progress. But they're linking to your interview with the congressman and specifically commenting on the fact that the congressman suggested that maybe there was collusion between top Democrats and prosecutor Ronnie Earle.
Well, over there, what they're saying is this is conspiracy theories pointing out that Tom DeLay cannot prove any of this right now. He says he will when it's timely. He just can't release that information yet, can't explain why he can't and can't say when he will be able to do so.
More over at Liberal Penpals saying, "We are sure his list of conspirators would be similar to Joseph McCarthy's 57 communists in the State Department, i.e,, nonexistent. One other point, back at Thinkprogress, in the comments section, Wolf, you were popular there but it was Jack Cafferty that some people were looking for.
Commenter Daniel saying, "I wish Cafferty was there to ask questions." I'd have loved to see that Jack getting a little bit of love from the liberal blogosphere. Although I have to point out that they did spell your name wrong, Jack. Sorry about that.
But Judith Miller is the big story out there today. Tom DeLay has been bypassed a little.
Miller's release from jail yesterday causing a real spike in the Valerie Plame blogging out there today.
Washington Monthly Political Animal, Kevin Drum is trying to make head or tail of this whole situation and what actually went down here. His explanation for his readers trying to work it all out: Libby said his generic waiver a year ago was plenty. Miller said it wasn't. Libby said, fine, I'm telling you now you have a waiver. Really and truly, said Miller. Yes, yes, really and truly.
That's about as best as he can make out.
At thehuffington.com, Arianna Huffington, through the whole 85 days of Miller's incarceration, has been blogging about the situation. And she's going full steam ahead on it today, wanting a "New York Times" piece by Judith Miller to explain just exactly what happened here.
But it seems that soon all the speculation, the questions in the blogosphere might be over. Captain Ed at CaptainsQuartersBlog.com is saying, "Judy Miller scoots from jail," pointing out that the grand jury expires on October the 28th. Perhaps we'll discover then why someone who didn't write about Valerie Plame wound up doing prison time protecting Scooter Libby.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Abbi. Good report. Thank you very much. It's 5:00 p.m. here in Washington.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
