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The Situation Room
Bush Picks White House Counsel for Supreme Court; Plane Crash in Florida
Aired October 03, 2005 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington. And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where news and information from around the world arrives in one place simultaneously.
Happening now, the president nominates a close friend and a colleague to fill a crucial seat on the U.S. Supreme Court. Mr. Bush knows Harriet Miers well but she's a virtual stranger to most of us. We'll go behind the scenes, over to the White House to see why the president picked Miers. Will this nomination provoke an all out battle or will Miers sail through the Senate like John Roberts? We'll go live to Capitol Hill to see if a fight's forming.
And this first Monday in October finds a new chief justice over at the Supreme Court. John Roberts takes over just in time to oversee some key cases from abortion to assisted suicide.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
And we're standing by to see a boat come up from the water. That would be the Ethan Allen. Forty-seven passengers were aboard that boat. One captain was aboard the boat. Twenty bodies have now been recovered. Twenty-seven passengers survived plus the captain.
We're expecting, in the next few hours, that capsized boat in Lake George, New York, that's in upstate New York north of Albany, to be raised, to come up from the water. The NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board, is on the scene trying to determine what happened, as well as state and local officials. We'll stay with that story and bring you live developments as they happen, including the raising of the Ethan Allen.
Now our top story this hour, the Roberts' court. As the new chief justice oversees a new session with hot button issues, will the new nominee get to replace retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor? The president's pick, a White House counsel, Harriet Miers. She's a Bush loyalist and a long-time lawyer, though she's never been a judge.
Miers headed the search for potential Supreme Court picks, even as the president was eying her as a nominee. Senate Republicans say they like what they see in Miers, although some conservative groups are now complaining Miers doesn't necessarily measure up to their ideological standards and their hopes. Democrats hope they've been presented with a mainstream candidate, but many see an empty page instead of a track record and they're vowing close scrutiny during the upcoming Senate confirmation process. The new chief justice, John Roberts, may set the tone for the court for decades. This court is already at work on a docket full of important cases ranging from abortion to the death penalty.
Let's begin our coverage involving the new nominee, Harriet Miers. She's a White House insider, a long-time lawyer for and a supporter of the president. For details, let's head over to our White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux.
Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, really the focus now here at the White House is essentially to sell the president's pick. That is exactly what White House Counselor Dan Bartlett was just doing within the last hour or so. We spoke with him and essentially he address the one thing that we find so surprising in this situation. That is the fact that it may be harder to sell this candidate to the Republicans than to the Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice over): It was vintage President Bush in choosing Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've known Harriet for more than a decade. I know her heart. I know her character.
MALVEAUX: Aides say the president's White House council is someone Mr. Bush can trust, feels comfortable with, who's given him legal advice since his days as Texas governor. Sunday night, Mr. Bush officially offered Miers the job over dinner with the first lady in the White House residence. Miers was in charge of the search committee established to help the president find a Supreme Court nominee. But White House aides say over the summer, during Mr. Bush's search to fill John Roberts' position, the president began to consider Miers as a possible candidate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a separate process, unbeknownst to Harriet Miers herself, that vetted her and put her through the very same steps that we expect of all of our judicial nominees.
MALVEAUX: The president had his first sit down with Miers as a potential candidate 12 days ago. As the president rolled out his nominee, the White House braced itself for the expected criticism, such as the fact that she has no experience as a judge.
BUSH: Justice Rehnquist himself came to the Supreme Court without prior experience on the bench. And I'm proud to nominate an outstanding woman who brings a similar record of achievement in private practice and public service.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And, Wolf, already some Democrats, as well as some conservative Republicans who are calling into question her very qualifications whether or not she should even be up for this job.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Well, on that note, we're hearing the word cronyism not only from the left but from the right as well. What are they saying at the White House?
MALVEAUX: Well, Wolf, your specifically hearing it from the conservative groups, the ultraconservatives, Public Advocate being one of those groups, saying that it smacks of cronyism here. The White House is saying, look, that they expected that charge. That they are just going to put forward her qualifications.
But all of the cast of players involved in pushing Roberts through are all now a very aggressively behind the scenes talking with those conservative groups. You have Vice President Dick Cheney. You also have, of course, Dan Bartlett, Karl Rove, all of those people working very hard to try to smooth over the rough edges. They know that there's quite a bit of concern when this comes to those conservative groups.
BLITZER: All right, Suzanne, thank you very much.
Harriet Miers is getting somewhat of a mixed reaction on Capitol Hill. There's praise for her professionalism. But when it comes to her possible political views, there's skepticism, as we just heard from Suzanne, from both ends of the political spectrum. Let's get some more delays. Our congressional correspondent, Ed Henry. He's monitoring developments up on The Hill.
What are you picking up, Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, once again, all of the pre-game hype suggested this was going to be an all-out brawl. But just like with John Roberts, it appears that maybe the president averted a major showdown here. In the words of veteran Republican Senator John Warner, a key swing vote on all of this, it appears the president hit a second straight home run.
Today when Harriet Miers arrived on Capitol Hill, she was welcomed with open arms by the Majority Leader Bill Frist, as well as the Senate Judiciary Chairman Arlen Specter. Very warm words from those Republicans, not surprisingly. More telling though, perhaps, is the fact that there was some interesting praise from top Democrats like Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein, who voted against Roberts saying, she does not see any negatives with this nomination.
And more importantly, the Senate Democratic leader also had very warm words. In fact, he is the man who initially raised the name of Harriet Miers directly to the president. This may not have been an orthodox pick, but from right to left, there's a lot of praise for it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R) TEXAS: This sort of is reminiscent of Dick Cheney's selection as vice president. The president picked the picker, so to speak. And but I think I believe that Harry Reid, in one of those consultations, said had suggested that she would be a good choice.
SEN. HARRY REID, (D-NV) MINORITY LEADER: I just understand the broad outline of this woman and the broad outline looks really good to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now the praise from Senator Harry Reid, in fact, has been so effusive that one top Republican aide told me there was some fear on the Republican side that that may antagonize conservatives a bit more. That the Democrats are promoting this nomination too much. In fact, two top conservatives on the Judiciary Committee, Tom Coburn and Sam Brownback, both put out some tepid basic initial statements saying that they want to read more. They want to learn more about Harriet Miers before they really say anything at all. And the fact is as you mentioned, Wolf, some on the left like Chuck Schumer, while some early praise, they're also saying they're going to vigorously scrutinize her. They wan to learn more about her background.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Ed Henry, thank you very much.
Ed Henry on The Hill for us.
Harriet Miers is already becoming somewhat of a lightning rod for criticism from the right. Some special interest groups fear she may not necessarily be conservative enough. For instance, a group called the Concerned Women of America says it will have to scrutinize her record to determine whether it can support her. William Kristol, the editor of "The Weekly Standard" magazine, suggests President Bush "flinched from a fight on constitutional philosophy." Ahead, we'll have much more reaction to the Miers pick, including what they're saying online in the blogs. And we'll also tell you what they're saying on talk radio, specifically what Rush Limbaugh is saying about the president's pick. You might be surprised.
After a brief ceremony, the new chief justice got right to work on the first day of the new Roberts' court. At 50 years old, Roberts is the youngest chief justice in more than 200 years. He could set the direction of the court for many, many years to come. Our congressional correspondent, Joe Johns, is joining us now live with more on that.
Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this was supposed to have been the main focus of official Washington today, but it got upstaged by the announcement on Harriet Miers. Still, Chief Justice Roberts and the kickoff of his court got its due today, if you will, an invitation only ceremony with the president in attendance, an investiture ceremony presided over by the senior justice, John Paul Stephens, who wished Chief Justice Roberts a long and happy career. After that, a bit of a photo op out here in front of the court. Then pretty much down to business. And the new chief justice welcomed a group of new lawyers to the Supreme Court Bar. The first cases the court heard with Roberts in the center seat had to do with labor laws that apply to people who work in the food processing industry and also whether state government can tax gasoline on Indian reservations.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Joe, thank you very much.
Joe Johns reporting for us here in Washington.
Let's go back to CNN's Ali Velshi. He's in New York watching the markets.
We had some confusion at the top of the hour when the markets closed. Clarify it for us, Ali.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Because I was saying bad thing about the energy hog. The Dow is, in fact, down 33 points, closing at 10,535. The Nasdaq is up just 3.75 points to 2,155. But I just wanted to clarify that for viewers.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Ali, thanks for clearing that up for us.
Ali Velshi, we'll get back to you very soon.
Coming up, so who exactly is Harriet Miers? We know she's close to the president, but she's never held a major political office and never served as a judge. What don't we know?
Roy Moore is running. We know that. The 10 Commandments judge, as he's called, wants to be the governor of Alabama. Does a bitter battle lie ahead in the Bible belt, as it's called?
And investigators hoping that raising a sunken tour boat will help them learn what sent it to the bottom of Lake George in upstate New York killing 20 elderly passengers.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There's been a plane crash. Let's immediately go to CNN's Zain Verjee at the CNN Center. She's following this story.
What's going on, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, what we're learning is that a plane that took off from Deland Airport, which is in Florida, it's near Daytona Beach, has crashed.
You're looking at live pictures from our affiliate WFTV. It's not clear how many people were on board this plane. It's not clear what kind of a plane it is. We're getting conflicting numbers on casualties. So we don't know if there are any casualties or how severe they may be. Or what kind of cause has triggered this crash. We'll bring you more details. As you can see, though, this plane has crashed and it's off the runway.
Wolf.
BLITZER: And it's a small plane. We can see the small plane. So I don't know how many passengers could have been on board that plane but clearly we're hoping for the best.
Zain, as soon as you get some more information, we'll get right back to you.
Zain Verjee with the latest on this plane crash in Florida.
The president's pick for the U.S. Supreme Court comes from George W. Bush's inner circle. But beyond that, Harriet Miers remains a bit of a mystery without much of a public record. To help piece this story together, let's turn to our national correspondent, Bruce Morton.
Bruce.
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, who is Harriet Miers? Well, she's a woman, which probably proves that Laura Bush is a pretty good lobbyist. But maybe more important, she's a Texan and a long- time friend.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Harriet, thank you for agreeing to serve.
MORTON (voice over): She joined Mr. Bush during his 1994 gubernatorial campaign and he described her back then as a pit bull in size six shoes. He also said, when it comes to cross-examine, she can filet better than Mrs. Paul. That's the fish stick woman, of course.
She served one term on the Dallas City Council, was the first woman ever hired by a prestigious Dallas law firm. Eventually was co- managing partner of a firm with over 400 lawyers. She was the first female president of the Dallas Bar Association, then of the State Bar of Texas.
She came to Washington with Mr. Bush in January, 2001. Was staff secretary. She read every paper the president saw. Then deputy chief of staff, then White House counsel, replacing another Texas Bush friend, Alberto Gonzalez, who was promoted to attorney general.
In all those jobs, she kept a very low profile. She is intense about details. She is someone, a friend says, with the character and capabilities to say no if she thinks no is the right answer. She is one of a number of women, tough, direct and loyal, whom this president has promoted. Margaret Spellings from education adviser to secretary of education, Condoleezza Rice from national security adviser to secretary of state, Karen Hughes from policy adviser to the woman in charge of improving America's image abroad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MORTON: The last time a president named a long-time close friend to the court was when Lyndon Johnson nominated Abe Fortas first to be justice, then chief justice. That didn't work. Scandals gathered around Fortas and he resigned. Nothing like that has happened to Mr. Bush's Texas team so far.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Bruce, thank you very much.
John Roberts' strong religious views, he's Catholic, were a little bit of an issue during his confirmation hearings. Not much. But what part does religion play in the life of the new Supreme Court nominee? Before moving to Washington, Harriet Miers attended a nondenominational church for some 20 years. One worshiper says Miers still visits Valley View Christian when she's back in her hometown of Dallas. Miers is said to have taught evening Sunday school there and was a member of the committee which oversees the church's missionary activities.
So is Miers the right pick? Did the president make the smart choice? We'll get some expert opinion. James Carville, Rich Galen, they're standing by in today's "Strategy Session."
Plus, some of the other top stories of the day, including that tragic boat accident in upstate New York. Why did the tour boat capsize? We'll go live to Lake George, New York. And we're standing by, that boat's about to be raised from the water. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's immediately go back to Zain Verjee. She's at the CNN Center. She's taking a closer look at this plane crash in Florida.
Are you getting more details, Zain?
VERJEE: Yes, we do have more details, Wolf.
We know that there were 12 people on board this plain. They were actually going sky diving. We don't have any word on casualties.
This plane was attempting to take off from Deland Airport in Florida. We don't know what its ultimate destination was. But as I say, people were just going to go sky diving and to have a good time.
These are pictures that we received from our affiliate, WFTV. Deland is near Daytona Beach in Florida. You can see authorities there on the scene. There doesn't appear to be anyone there. Everyone's been either taken away or evacuated immediately.
We did receive some pictures a moment ago that were live, but it seems as though the situation here under control. We don't know, again, if there were fatalities or any injuries. All we do know, Wolf, that there were 12 people on board and they were going sky diving.
The return of some normality to Louisiana's Jefferson Parish. Most of the public schools in the community opened their doors to students today for the first time since Hurricane Katrina struck back in August. Most other public school districts in the affected region remain closed. New Orleans city schools hope to open by November.
The focus in Bali turning now to photographs of three dead suicide bombers. Investigators will try and put names to those photos and determine who's responsible for killing 19 people at the popular tourist destination on Saturday. At least 130 more people were injured. The U.S. and several other governments had issued heightened terror warnings for the region.
A vow of completion from Vice President Dick Cheney today to Marines at North Carolina's Camp Lejeune. One hard hit unit base there has lost 48 troops in Iraq, 14 of them killed in back-to-back attacks over the summer. Cheney told the Marines that their losses are irreplaceable and that the United States will honor the dead by completing the mission in Iraq.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, getting back to the Bali terrorist bombing. The authorities there, police, they're releasing some photographs. Some grizzly photographs. Tell us what they're doing?
VERJEE: They released them to the newspapers and those photographs of the bombers are on all the front pages of the Indonesian newspapers this day. Basically, the suicide bombers had just loaded themselves up with vests that had ball bearings, explosives and other shrapnel. And when they detonated those, their torsos went in one direction and their heads went in another. So the heads are actually remarkably intact, says one Indonesian authority. A local official rather. He said the heads are swollen and they're bruised but they're intact.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Awful, awful story.
Zain, thank you very much for updating us on the plane crash in Florida, as well. We'll check back with you for more details.
We're also following late developments in Lake George, New York, that's in upstate New York, where crews are on the scene of that deadly boating accident which killed 20 people yesterday. CNN's Susan Lisovicz is there for us and she's got the latest.
Susan, what do you know?
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, well, Wolf, you know, this narrow sliver of water just about 600 feet offshore has been the site of intense activity this afternoon and it has increased with each passing hour because now we're in a race against time with the available sun light. But only in the last hour, since we last spoke, in fact, we've seen what would appear to be some very positive developments. One is that the boom surrounding the area is now completely encircled the area. And we know that authorities do not want to raise the Ethan Allen until it's encircled because that boat is leaking diesel fuel.
The other thing is that the divers are so critical in this process of putting these inflatables underneath the boat and then carefully raising it to the surface. Remember, it remains submerged in 70 feet of water. And we saw nearly a dozen divers jump in, in the last 15 minutes or so.
Obviously, this boat is a critical piece in the investigation as to what happened. One of the worst tragedies ever on Lake George. The position of the boat, the condition of the boat. But I know in your interview with the acting chairman of the NTSB in the last hour, Mark Rosenker repeatedly emphasizing that they will be looking at every possibility before they come to a conclusion. That there's a lot of conflicting accounts right now and that there are a lot of questions that remain unanswered.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Susan, it was a beautiful day, I take it. I've been to Lake George. Lake Placid is not very far away. It's by no means a tsunami out there. It's a very, very normal, beautiful lake. And it was a gorgeous day yesterday. What's their working assumption?
LISOVICZ: Well, I think authorities are very careful not to have a working assumption. But you are right, this is a place that has historically drawn millions of people. It is a real jewel in New York state. I, myself, have vacationed here. It's just exquisite. Hundreds of islands, 32 miles long. Pristine water.
And yesterday was a perfect day for boating. Calm conditions, first of all. Clear skies, sunny, balmy. About 70 degrees. Abnormally warm. These senior citizens were on what appeared to be a fall foliage tour and they had every expectation this was going to be a very gentle kind of ride. So none of them were wearing life vests. They were not required to do so.
But the conditions today fortunately are a repeat of yesterday and that has made the search and salvage operation a little bit easier for them to deal with. It's a very tedious and delicate operation to be sure.
Wolf. BLITZER: All right, Susan, we'll check back with you. We'll also wait and see when they actually raise the Ethan Ellen, we'll show our viewers that scene once it happens.
Susan, thank you very much.
Susan Lisovicz reporting.
When we come back, it was relatively easy going for John Roberts. Will it be the same for Harriet Miers? Up next, the tactics behind the president's latest Supreme Court nomination.
James Carville and Rich Galen, they'll join us in today's "Strategy Session."
Plus, what a first Monday in October. A new chief justice as the Supreme Court gets ready to take on key cases from abortion rights for women to the right to die. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Welcome back.
The Harriet Miers nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court has caused some reactions you might not necessarily have expected. While some Republicans are being cautious in their optimism, some Democrats are actually warmly embracing the president's pick. Joining us now, are guests: Democratic strategist and CNN Political Analyst James Carville and Republican strategist Rich Galen. Thanks guys for joining us.
Are you surprised, James, that the sort of skepticism is coming more from the right than the left?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. I don't know. Nothing surprises me. I think the pick surprised me. This has like President Bush all over it. This was his pick. On this show I've said a few weeks ago that...
BLITZER: I want to interrupt you James for one quick second, because we're getting information right now that boat, the Ethan Allen in Lake George in upstate New York is being raised right now. There we see it. These are live pictures coming in from Lake George, New York. Susan Lisovicz is there. We see some divers on the sidelines over there, on the side of those boats. Susan, update our viewers on what we know.
LISOVICZ: Divers and authorities have been working on all day, Wolf. And it's a very tedious, very time consuming, very delicate process. And it looks like it is paying off late in the afternoon just as the afternoon sun is beginning to wane.
But what you are seeing right now is the very top it looks like of the Ethan Allen. And i say that because it appears we see a flag aboard the boat.
Divers nearby, the orange buoy off to another side. We believe that buoy had marked the spot where the Ethan Allen lie in 70 feet of water.
But again, a very delicate process. But not only that, bringing these inflatables and lifting this boat, this 40 foot boat to the surface, but also a very critical piece of a very important investigation. The condition of the boat, the position of the boat, what led this boat to capsize and sink in picture perfect conditions yesterday -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Explain, Susan, I want to go back on that boat. Explain how they're raising this boat. It had 47 passengers on board, one captain. Twenty people died when it capsized. But explain the process of how they're actually bringing this boat to the surface. I take it the water's about 70 feet in depth?
LISOVICZ: That's right. And actually, because it was such a hot summer, and because we have abnormally warm weather conditions to this day, the water is a little bit warmer than it might be in early October. We're talking about mid-60s, the water temperature.
But everybody knew right away where the Ethan Allen went down. It was the process of bringing it to the surface safely and intact. That, of course, is such a big, delicate project.
What we saw early this morning, Wolf, once we had the first rays of sun is that divers, authorities were on the scene. Divers going down to the depths of the 70-foot depths where the boat lie to map out the position and the condition of the Ethan Allen. That is something that the NTSB requires, it needs it to get the information to put in -- to answer all the questions that remain as to why this boat so suddenly capsized.
But then, what happens later on is that there are inflatables that are put underneath the boat. And then very carefully and very slowly it is brought to the surface, because you don't want it tipping to one side or the other. You want to raise it to the top of the water very carefully, very slowly so that you have the boat in the best possible condition before it's towed off to a secured place where NTSB officials can examine it more thoroughly.
BLITZER: And we see that boat coming up slowly but surely higher and higher. I take it this could take awhile for that boat to come up all the way. Are they giving you an estimate, Susan, how long this process is going to take?
LISOVICZ: No, actually, I don't have an estimate. We do know, Wolf, that this is very -- a very important step though. You want to get this boat to the surface of the water before the sunset today, because then it might go into another day. It just gets too hazardous once the sun sets.
But the next step, once they get this boat onto -- completely onto the surface is that you'll have it towed to an area. We're not sure where, but a secured area where the NTSB officials can more thoroughly continue their investigation.
BLITZER: We know the National Transportation Safety Board, the federal agency, is there. We spoke with Mark Rosenker the acting chairman of the NTSB in the last hour. Are they in charge of this investigation? Or are state or local authorities really in charge?
LISOVICZ: Well, you know, it's interesting. Of course, Warren County Sheriff's Department were all over the scene yesterday. And their divers are the people that we've been seeing in the waters today. But NTSB has such a history and such -- such an expertise in these kind of situations, it appears the NTSB is controlling it.
I can't say definitively, but it appears that they're pretty much in charge with heavy assistance of course, from sheriffs and state officials from New York.
It is a multipronged effort to find out what happened. Because it just seemed all the people that were here yesterday that saw this just a surreal scene. There is a boat in calm waters and clear conditions that just in slow motion suddenly capsized and then minutes later sank. 20 people, of course, died as a result of that accident.
BLITZER: In the eyewitness accounts that I've read about, Susan, and you're there, you're on the scene as we see the Ethan Allen, that boat that capsized yesterday in Lake George being brought up to the surface of that water, we see the divers alongside helping in the process, did the eyewitnesses accounts, either from the survivors or from others who saw what happened, supposedly only the whole thing happened within a few seconds. And at one point, almost everyone, all 47 passengers sort of slid over to one side of that boat. Give our viewers a sense of what those eyewitnesses are telling you.
LISOVICZ: Well, you know, I'm standing on the property of a family that were really among the first responders yesterday. Some of those family members were in a canoe. So they would certainly be very sensitive to the movement of the water. They said that it was very calm.
Now, this is where you get some conflicting descriptions of what happened. The captain has told authorities that there -- he was trying to avoid a wake at the time. And that may have contributed to the accident. These people tell me that they saw it happen. And they said that they would certainly feel whether there was a wake, and they felt none.
But they said very calm. In slow motion. It appeared that the boat was perhaps making a turn deliberately and then all of a sudden, it just keeled over. It was surreal. Very calm. Then screaming, shouting and then people -- anybody who saw who was in a boat just came. In fact those people in a canoe ditch the canoe, got into a fishing boat, came over and tried to help people as much as possible.
But it was a harrowing scene, because first of all, there were some people trapped underneath. The first responders weren't aware of the fact. You could hear knocking at a certain point that there were people underneath the boat. Then, of course, virtually all of the passengers were senior citizens, some of them quite infirmed.
Also the presence of diesel fuel in the water. So people saying they were trying to lift these people, so heavy, because, they were in some cases maybe not quite conscious, so it's this dead weight. Plus, they were in some cases they were covered with fuel, so Very slippery. So, it was a very difficult chaotic scene.
And -- but the people who were in the scene enjoying this beautiful weather were very quick to respond. And in some cases, were quite sure helped save lives.
BLITZER: And the passengers, I take it were not wearing life vests. Is that right.
LISOVICZ: They weren't and weren't required to do so. The Ethan Allen is required, and any boat in New York State, is required to have as many life -- at least as many life vests as the maximum number of passengers. We know -- we've heard it from witnesses who said they saw life vests washing ashore.
It was a very gentle day it appeared on the surface. And that's one of the great contradictions of water. The boat -- this is a very deep lake.
BLITZER: Here it comes.
LISOVICZ: And it can become very dangerous very quickly.
BLITZER: We can see more of it come up right now. You can see the makeup of that boat as it comes up. It's getting those -- I guess, you got to say, the divers and everyone else are really getting that boat up to the surface of this water right now. You're really beginning to see the shape of this vessel.
The pilot, the captain of this boat, I take it, had an outstanding record. And there's really no question of his capability. Is that the preliminary assessment?
LISOVICZ: That's right. And not only that, Wolf, he was well- known to people in the area. He's a retired state trooper. Some of the sheriffs officials who were talking earlier in a briefing said he is devastated by this, was well-known, had a terrific record as a state trooper, had -- knew the lake very well, was highly regarded. He worked for a tour company that has been here for a long, long time. Has a good record, as well. The Ethan Allen is a boat that has been on the waters of Lake George for a long time.
So it's really a mystery as to what happened. And the Ethan Allen passed an inspection, reportedly, just a few months ago. So, it's just really perplexing as to what happened yesterday.
BLITZER: And I read accounts saying that he was not tested, the pilot, for either alcohol or drugs, although I suspect that under an investigation of this nature, wouldn't that be standard operating procedure?
LISOVICZ: One would think. And, of course, time is of the essence when you're going to do that kind of testing, Wolf. But apparently, officials felt that his behavior, his conduct, the conditions that occurred, did not warrant such a test. But he will be speaking formally to the NTSB tomorrow. He has spoken informally to them today and he has spoken also to the sheriff's department. And one of the things he has said is that there was a wake, a wake coming toward the boat. He was trying to avoid it. And one would suspect that that's one of the things that he thinks contributes -- contributed to the accident.
BLITZER: One of the saddest parts of this, and so much is so sad, 20 people are dead. There were 47 passengers, plus the captain, on board. Twenty people are dead, and most of them were elderly. They were tourists from Michigan. They had come to upstate New York to see what was going on in beautiful Lake George and the Adirondacks and they wanted to get a sense of fall that was just only beginning now in upstate New York, the leaves changing colors. Having grown up in that part of the country, I can testify how beautiful it is up there. What kind of -- what kind of reaction are you getting from the survivors? What are they saying?
LISOVICZ: Wolf, I have not talked to any of the survivors, although we have reporters -- Alina Cho and Deborah Feyerick, who are up here, and I think that is something that they have been trying to get. We have been basically positioned here, monitoring what authorities are saying about this search and salvage mission. But they were, by eyewitness accounts, in many cases, in a state of shock when they were in the water. And that very calmly, in some cases, just saying, my mother is underneath the boat, or my wife is dead.
It was just -- it happened so quickly that it was in a sense that they couldn't quite calculate what happened. But you're right. I mean, this was a group of seniors from Michigan, all of them from Michigan, who were -- this was just one part of this fall foliage tour. This was an afternoon boating excursion on Lake George, a spectacular day on a spectacular lake.
And I would say, I would agree with you. This is a lake that's beautiful 12 months of the year, but yesterday happened to be especially beautiful because you had the sun and the calm conditions. You had many, many people out on the water enjoying the lake. And you are just beginning to see the leaves turn color, because it's been such a warm summer. You haven't really seen the leaves turn as much as you might think in early October up here.
BLITZER: I'm counting at least the half a dozen, maybe a dozen, divers that we see at the surface right now. Let me just update our viewers who may just be tuning in, Susan. What we're seeing is the Ethan Allen. This is the boat that capsized on Lake George yesterday, killing 20 people. Twenty-seven survived, plus the captain, the pilot of this boat. They're now raising it, they're trying to raise it intact as much as possible so the NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board and other investigators, can try to understand what exactly happened, learn from the lessons.
You see a picture of the Ethan Allen in the upper left-hand corner of your screen. That's what it used to look like before it capsized. Now it's being brought to the surface. Susan Lisovicz is helping us. She's on the scene for us in Lake George, which is just north of Albany, New York, and upstate New York. What are they going to do with this boat once it gets to the surface?
LISOVICZ: Well, again, it is one of the most critical parts of the investigation. The NTSB -- as you know, Mark Rosenker saying that they are going to go over this boat with a fine tooth comb. They're also going to examine a lot of other things, as well. Of course, the boat traffic in the area, the weight aboard the boat, the -- all the accounts, the eyewitness accounts, the pilot's accounts.
But this boat is a critical piece of the investigation. Once they get this boat steady, we will see a barge that will -- I don't think that this is boat that is nearing it, I'm not sure that this is the boat that is going to tow it. But when they get that -- when they the Ethan Allen steadier and higher, they're going to tow it and they're going to tow it to a secure place. We're not told where. But that is where authorities can look at this boat more carefully to determine if there was something that just -- if there was a malfunction in the boat that contributed to this boat just suddenly capsizing and sinking.
One of the things we've been hearing this afternoon is that when the boat was turning, that some of the chairs that weren't fastened down slid to one side, which of course, would further increase the weight on one side. But all the authorities are saying is just, we're looking at everything and they really just don't know what -- if there was one primary cause or whether it was a whole bunch of factors that led to this terrible accident.
BLITZER: And, Susan, all the bodies have been recovered, right?
LISOVICZ: That's correct.
BLITZER: So we're not going to see any more bodies emerge from this capsized boat?
LISOVICZ: That's correct. That's correct, Wolf.
BLITZER: Susan, stand by. I want to continue to watch this picture and update our viewers on this dramatic development. They're bringing this boat up, the Ethan Allen. We're going to also resume our discussion, our "Strategy Session" on Harriet Miers, the nominee to replace Sandra Day O'Connor on the Supreme Court. We'll take a quick break. We'll go back to Lake George right after this.
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BLITZER: We're watching this situation develop in Lake George in upstate New York, just north of Albany. These are live pictures you're seeing here in THE SITUATION ROOM. In the middle of that screen is the Ethan Allen, the boat that capsized yesterday, taking 47 passengers plus a captain around beautiful Lake George in update state New York. Twenty people were killed as that boat capsized under strange circumstances, mysterious circumstances.
We don't know what happened. The NTSB is on the scene investigating, as are local and state officials. This boat is being brought to the top. It will be taken to a location for further investigation. But you see it coming to the top.
Susan Lisovicz is our reporter. She's on the scene for us in Lake George. Susan, the number of people that were on this Ethan Allen, on this boat, versus the number of people normally on this boat, is there a problem there?
LISOVICZ: No. It was within the guidelines, the legal guidelines, of what the Ethan Allen could have on board. Fifty passengers was the maximum. There was very close to it, 48. That included the captain, the only crewmember aboard the boat.
But Wolf, I want to draw your attention to what's happening in the lake. Right now, it appears we may be seeing the actual towing of the Ethan Allen, because you see the boat that is just off to the left with the twinkling lights. There appears to be a tow line now connected to the Ethan Allen. So, we may be starting to see the actual towing of this boat. They may not be able to raise it any further. But that obviously is also a very delicate situation.
To your question about the number of people aboard: Forty seven passengers, all adults, one captain, the only crew member aboard. Some of the eyewitnesses I've talked to today said some of these people were like so many of us Americans, they were quite large. So technically the boat may have been within its guidelines, but it may have exceeded the weight. It's just a question, it's one of many questions.
But I think you can also see from the pictures there, the Ethan Allen is not a very large boat. It's only 40 feet long -- 40 feet long, 48 people aboard. So, if 47 people are off to one side for any reason, that could really destabilize the boat.
BLITZER: Susan, stand by. I want to bring in Larry Cleveland. He's the sheriff of Warren County. He's on the scene for us. He's joining us on the phone. Sheriff, give our viewers a sense of what we're seeing right now. Is this boat being towed as we're watching these live pictures?
LARRY CLEVELAND, WARREN COUNTY SHERIFF: Well yes, it is. Just so you know, I'm not on the scene, but of course I'm getting minute by minute information.
The boat is being taken to a shallower area in the event that it should drop again so that we can then stabilize it, pump the water out of it to bring the gunnels up to a level that will make it safe to actually tow it to a location where it can be taken out of the lake.
BLITZER: So the -- you anticipate this boat at some point will be raised and taken someplace to another, to a warehouse or someplace where it can be studied?
CLEVELAND: Yes. The plan right now is to completely get it out of the water and get it to a secure location where it can be examined in depth.
BLITZER: What is the latest information you're getting, sheriff? What happened?
CLEVELAND: Well, we know that the boat capsized. And of course, there's a lot of dynamics that can play into that, including the number of people on board. How much they weighed. What was the distribution of that weight while it was on board? Whether or not that weight shifted, because the boat tipped to some degree maybe with whatever reason, if it went through a wake or it went through just the regular wave activity that might be on the lake at any given time.
We don't know for sure just what did take place. But there's a lot of things to look at, including the human factors as well as the boat itself, its construction, whether any modifications may have been made to it and so forth.
BLITZER: Have you ever had any problems with this Ethan Allen or other similar vessels in Lake George?
CLEVELAND: No, nothing of this magnitude. In fact, nothing with this particular company, as well.
BLITZER: What kind of problems have you had with boats capsizing, if any in, Lake George?
CLEVELAND: Well, we have boats that capsize all the time. They're usually small row boats, sail boats and things like that. But the magnitude of this or a cruise boat is unprecedented. We've never had anything like this happen before.
BLITZER: What about the captain of this boat? One individual, one professional on board with 47 passengers, mostly elderly people, tourists visiting from Michigan. What do we know about the captain?
CLEVELAND: He's -- well, number one, he's a retired state police member from New York. He had a distinguished career with them. Then went on to take on a second career as a licensed New York state pilot.
He's been piloting boats on Lake George for many, many years. Most all of our people know who he is based on our involvement with him over the years on the lake. He's a safety conscious individual. He's a responsible individual. We wouldn't expect that there would be anything here that would have happened on his behalf that would have been intentionally reckless or negligent.
BLITZER: Did you do a routine drug or alcohol test?
CLEVELAND: We did not. There's been some question about that. And what's being confused is the difference between the state law versus the federal law. Federal law, if you're a licensed under the U.S. Coast Guard regulations would allow us to demand a test be taken regardless of whether or not we had any suspicion that there was any alcohol or drug involvement.
In New York, the requirement is such that we must have a reasonable suspicion. In other words, we need a higher threshold before we can demand that that be taken. And I personally interviewed the captain of that boat within 30 to 40 minutes, because that's how quickly I was out there on the scene. And there was no indication to us and has not been in the last 24 hours that there was any type of impairment that would have warned us triggering the New York state law that would have required him to take that test.
BLITZER: So, what's the next step now, sheriff? What are you doing as this boat -- I assume you're interviewing survivors and eyewitnesses.
CLEVELAND: We're interviewing and taking detailed written statements from all of the survivors, the many, many witnesses that were on the lake shore or out on the lake itself. Of course, the project right now is getting this boat up as you can see.
They're bringing it in closer to shore. The idea being if for some reason we were to lose one of the lift bags, the vessel would not go down to that deep of water again. They'll bring that up and get the gunnels up over the surface so that it's stabilized, pump the water out and it should be sea worthy at time enough that we can then tow it to a location and get it pulled out of the water.
BLITZER: Sheriff, I have a lot -- I've done a lot. But a few more questions to ask you. Do you have a few moments that you can stand by with us?
CLEVELAND: Sure.
BLITZER: All right. Good.
Susan Lisovicz is standing by as well. She's our reporter on the scene. She has some questions for you, as well, sheriff. Larry Cleveland, the sheriff of Warren County in upstate New York.
We're going to take a quick break. Much more of our coverage right after this.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. We're here in THE SITUATION ROOM, watching a dramatic story unfold.
Yesterday, a boat capsized in beautiful Lake George in Warren County. That's in upstate New York just north of the state capital of Albany. Forty seven passengers were on board that boat. Twenty people died. The captain survived as well, in addition to twenty seven of the passengers.
We're speaking with the Warren County Sheriff Larry Cleveland. He's on the phone with us.
We've been watching these pictures, sheriff, of this boat being brought to the top of Lake George. It's being floated, it's being towed. And it will be taken to a secure location for an investigation and inspection of what happened. How many years have you been around there, sheriff? Because this sounds like a very extraordinary, unusual situation, a tragic situation developed in Lake George, not normal business as usual by any means.
CLEVELAND: Well, I've grown up in this area. I've lived here all my life. I got over 30 years of law enforcement service in this community. This is unprecedented for our community. And as I've researched a little bit, or had provided to me throughout the day, this is unprecedented in our state.
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