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The Situation Room
New Orleans Lays Off 3,000 City Employees; U.S. Government Prepares For Potential Bird Flu Epidemic; Interview With Franklin Graham
Aired October 04, 2005 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John King. And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where news and information arrive at one place simultaneously. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you the day's top stories.
Happening now, a major development in New Orleans. The mayor announces the layoffs of up to 3,000 city employees. We will have live details in just a moment.
Also, it's 3:00 p.m. at the White House, where President Bush is trying to reassure conservatives that his new Supreme Court nominee is one of their own.
Worst-case scenario -- the government quietly preparing for a bird flu epidemic. Options include a quarantine of whole sections of the country.
And it's 2:00 p.m. in New Orleans. Evangelist Franklin Graham calls it a city of sin, ripe for revival now, he says, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. He's here to talk about it.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. Thanks for joining us. Wolf has the day off.
Several major developing stories this hour. We begin with word from the New Orleans mayor that he will lay off some 3,000 city employees. He says the city is broke in the wake of Hurricane Katrina and Rita.
We go live now to New York and Ali Velshi with the latest details. Ali?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is it, John. What is happening is, now that the emergency is stopping, the reality is setting in. This is a city with way more expenses than it has taxpayers at the moment, Mayor Ray Nagin announcing now that the city does not have enough money to pay for 3,000 city workers. They are going to have to lay off 3,000 city workers.
Mayor Nagin was just saying that he has tried for weeks to get the financing in place. And we have heard references to this, John, that they have been trying to get financing in place. They have been trying to get more aid from state and federal governments. They need the help to pay for the city workers. And on top of the normal tax base that's needed to pay for workers, right now, the job ahead of them is much bigger than it ever would be for New Orleans.
Now, we are understanding from our producers on the ground that there has been some discussion that the National Guard troops may be able to take on some of the immediate emergency cleanup responsibilities that the city workers who are being laid off aren't able to do. We are still waiting for some clarification as to what those jobs are.
You will -- you'll understand, John, that, in many cases, these are workers who have been displaced or out of their homes who haven't been on the job, might be looking forward to getting back on the job. Some of them have already been working. We're trying to figure out who these workers are, what city services are being affected in New Orleans. But Mayor Ray Nagin saying now that 3,000 city workers have to be let go in New Orleans because the city of New Orleans just does not have the money to pay for them.
Now, this follows the resignation of the police chief last week, who said he'll stay on until a new chief is found. But New Orleans is now having to face the fact that a lot of rescuers are leaving, a lot of the emergency is over, and now they have got to get down to brass tacks and figure out how they pay for the fix-up and rebuild of New Orleans.
John.
KING: Ali Velshi on that developing story. More information as we get it out of New Orleans. Another ramification of Katrina and Rita -- 3,000 city employees laid off in New Orleans today by the mayor.
Another developing story in New York now. We're going to bring in on the telephone Salvatore Cassano. He's the chief of operations for the Fire Department of New York. You may have seen last hour these live pictures, a tanker accident and a fire of sorts in from WABC. You see them here on your screen.
Mr. Cassano, what can you tell us?
SALVATORE CASSANO, CHIEF OF OPERATIONS, FDNY: Well, we had a tanker truck overturn. We're still trying to determine the cause of why it overturned. It was loaded with a fuel oil. We are still trying to determine what type of fuel it was.
We have the fire extinguished at the present time. But we are searching for the driver. We have no access to the cab yet. And we have major damage to the roadway. We are assessing that with Department of Transportation. And right below this elevated roadway is an Amtrak rail. It's a major north corridor. And the train traffic has been stopped in both directions. So, we have a major traffic jam on our hands until we can assess the situation with various other city agencies.
KING: And you mentioned, sir, you're looking for the driver of the cab. Any other cars impacted by the tanker fire itself?
CASSANO: We had some cars below the overpass that were damaged and some stores where the front of the store was singed by the fuel that was traveling down the street. But we have that under control.
And we still have some burning track area, where the pool -- the fuel pooled, which we have covered with foam. And we have that pretty much under control. But there has to be a lot of assessment done before we can allow traffic and train traffic to continue.
KING: And help me, sir, with the geography and our viewers. You mentioned Amtrak. I assume this is the northeast corridor. Are we or and south of Penn Station, in the sense, are these trains coming and going from Washington or coming and going toward Boston and Connecticut?
CASSANO: They are coming and going towards Boston. We are north of Penn Station. It's the north corridor, but it's north of Penn Station, but it's still going to affect traffic in both directions.
KING: And any sense, sir -- I know it's early, but any sense of when you could reopen those train tracks?
CASSANO: We're going to try to open it as quickly as possible, but only when it's safe to do so.
KING: Salvatore Cassano of the Fire Department of New York, sir, thank you very much.
CASSANO: Thank you.
KING: Thank you, sir. Good luck.
And for the first time in four months, President Bush went before reporters at a White House news conference today. Topics included energy prices, hurricane damage, and, of course, Harriet Miers, his controversial nominee to replace Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. Some conservatives see Miers as an unknown quantity. And they are worried she may not be true to their cause.
Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux joins us now live with the details. Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, as you know, President Bush is under fire from both the left and the right when it comes to Harriet Miers, his Supreme Court pick.
President Bush used most of this -- of this press conference to defend her. But specifically he addressed the conservatives, saying that, yes, he's a pro-life president and that he's not had a conversation, a sit-down with Harriet Miers over abortion, but he reassured her that he believes she shares the same conservative philosophy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Harriet Miers will stand on her own.
I made my position very clear in the course of my campaigns -- my position -- and I'm a pro-life president.
Harriet Miers is going to go up to the Senate and they're going to look at her and determine whether or not she has got the temperament, the intelligence and the philosophy to be an excellent Supreme Court judge. And she will be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: John, as you know, of course, it was a wide-ranging press conference. He addressed a number of issues. Of course, all this trying to regain his political standing from since May. That's the last time he held a press conference. Since then, we have seen rising gas prices, some sinking poll numbers, the Republican leadership under fire for alleged wrongdoing, as well as President Bush under fire for Hurricane Katrina as well.
John.
KING: And, Suzanne, quickly, a pretty significant concession from the president there, acknowledging Social Security would probably not get done this year. That was his number one domestic priority.
MALVEAUX: Well, absolutely. It was very interesting, John. It was one of these striking things that he said during the press conference.
While he continued to talk about his foreign policy, Iraq, urging Americans to stay with him, he did concede, saying that his Social Security, his domestic policy, the centerpiece of it, really has stalled and that it's out of his hands. He said, essentially, it's up to Congress to move that forward. Very little appetite in Congress to do that this time around.
John.
KING: Suzanne Malveaux at a busy day at the White House -- thank you, Suzanne.
And major U.S. military offensive is under way in Iraq's Anbar Province.
CNN's Jennifer Eccleston is embedded with Marines taking their part in the counterinsurgency effort. She joins us now live from videophone from the town of Haditha. Jennifer?
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John. It's the single largest military operation, anti-insurgency operation, in western Al-Anbar Province. And that's because it involves some 2,500 Marines, sailors and soldiers. But the bulk of the force here are the Marines. And they are here to root out the terrorists along the Euphrates River Valley, to deny them a safe haven, and deny them freedom of movement, the freedom of movement that they had enjoyed over the last couple of months.
Now, there are two objectives here, create a secure environment whereby the Iraqis in this region will be able to go to the national referendum later this month to vote on their new constitution. And the broader objective here is of course, to have a secure environment, with leaving behind a stabilizing force here, as opposed to moving on to other operations. There will be a mainly American contingent force here at first. And then, eventually, there will be Iraqi soldiers who will fill in the gaps, gain the trust of the local population, and take over patrolling this area.
Now, there have been a number of successes,. The Marines say, that the local population is greeting them warmly, actually giving them tips where the insurgents are operating. There have been a number of detainees today. But there also have been insurgent successes, a number of IEDs, dozens upon dozens. And, actually, one of the IEDs left three U.S. forces dead last night.
John.
KING: And Jennifer, you mentioned the U.S. forces taking the lead in the operation and perhaps the Iraqis picking up the area, when the area cleaned up. Are Iraqi forces at all involved in the offensive, or is the plan just to bring them in after?
ECCLESTON: There's a small team of Iraqis here, three companies with this particular Marine unit. That's about 500 men, mainly those in the Iraqi army, also some special forces of the Iraqi army as well. They are participating right alongside their Marine counterparts and also their Army counterports -- counterparts, rather.
But the idea is that there will be more Iraqis coming in, a full battalion coming in at some stage. That will happen in a matter of weeks and concluding in a matter of months. And then, eventually, they will still be working alongside the Marines who will stay in these towns along the Euphrates River. But eventually, they -- the Americans -- will be phased out and the Iraqis will take over.
John.
KING: Jennifer Eccleston on dangerous duty for us in Iraq's Al Anbar Province. Thank you, Jennifer.
And now to New York and the probe into that tour boat accident that killed some 20 people. Hoping to piece together the puzzle of what happened, transportation officials are looking over the boat and have released some chilling 911 tapes.
CNN's Suzanne -- Susan Lisovicz -- excuse me -- is in Lake George with more. Susan?
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, John. Well, authorities have told us they are going to look at every piece of information related to the accident. And that includes 911 calls that were made in the immediate moments after the Ethan Allen suddenly capsized and sank Sunday afternoon.
As you know, it was a beautiful afternoon Sunday, much like what we're seeing today, in fact. There were hundreds of boaters in the area and some of them called 911. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Nine-one-one. What is your emergency?
BRIAN HART, BOATER: Hello. We got a boat tipped over in Lake George. (INAUDIBLE) There's a commercial boat. It tipped right over. There's 50 people on the boat.
911 OPERATOR: Fifty people?
HART: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: Whereabouts are you now?
HART: Right in Diamond Point in Lake George, right on the water.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
HART: ... help them. (INAUDIBLE) tipped right over.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
LISOVICZ: The voice you hear is that of Brian Hart. He was out canoeing with his two small nieces and daughter Sunday afternoon, saw it happen, quickly canoed back to shore, dropped off the kids, hopped into his fishing boat with his brother and became one of the first responders on the scene.
In the meantime today, also this afternoon, we heard for the first time from the tour boat operators, Shoreline Cruises. Let's listen to what they had to say.
OK. I can tell you briefly what the company said. It was a very brief statement. In addition to saying they were shocked and saddened by the accident, noting that the company had been here for 27 years, and, until Sunday, had a spotless record. Also saying that the same could be said about the captain, Richard Paris, who by the way, John, is being formally interviewed by the NTSB for the first time.
Back to you.
KING: Susan Lisovicz for us in Lake George. Susan, thank you very much, tracking that important investigation.
And next, more trouble for New Orleans. We will go there live, where the mayor has just made a major announcement.
Former President Bill Clinton on a mission. He's meeting with hurricane survivors in Louisiana. We will take you there live.
Also, Franklin Graham, he says God is going to use the storm to bring revival to New Orleans. He joins us live to explain those remarks.
Plus, the deadly bird flu. President Bush discusses the possibility of quarantines in the United States. We will take a closer look at just what an outbreak might mean.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Former President Bill Clinton is visiting the hurricane zone today. He met with survivors at a shelter in Baton Rouge, before heading off to New Orleans for a tour of that devastated city. The fund for hurricane victims started by Mr. Clinton along with former President Bush has raised $100 million so far.
And for more on the situation in New Orleans and the city's just announced plan to lay off some city employees, we go live to CNN's Lisa Sylvester.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, John. Yes, that announcement came within the last half-an-hour, Mayor Ray Nagin announcing that they will have to cut the jobs of 3,000 workers. We're talking about folks who work in accounting offices, licensing offices.
The problem is, they are running out of money. And it's a situation that we are seeing not just here in New Orleans, but for instance Plaquemines Parish. The sheriff has been talking about this for days now. They don't have any revenue coming in, these cities, these areas have been virtually shut down.
Now, Governor Kathleen Blanco addressed this issue yesterday. She held a news conference at 2:00 yesterday in the afternoon. And what she is trying to do is to get Congress to revise -- we have got a helicopter going over us, so we will just wait for a moment.
But what she is trying to do is get Congress to revise and reform what is called the Stafford Act. It allows the federal government to pay the salaries of emergency workers. These emergency workers have been really -- they have been at it overtime since Hurricane Katrina.
Take a look at the devastation. We're here in an area called the Lower Ninth Ward. This is a barge, a 200-foot barge that was swept over. Now, there's some question of whether or not the barge broke the canal wall or whether it was the canal wall broke first and then the barge was pushed over here. But they have a real problem, which is, how do you get this thing out of here? Right now, the plan is cut it up and to basically truck it out.
And then, just off to the left, what you can see is, you have emergency crews that are working, trying to repair the levee. They do have a situation with more bad weather that will be moving into this area. And the reason why this is such a major concern is because there are still some areas where water is still coming in. It is seeping in very gradually, but it is a major concern.
John.
KING: Lisa Sylvester for us in the historic Lower Ninth Ward. Lisa, thank you very much.
I was in that ward just the other day. And I can tell you, the Army Corps of Engineers believes, preliminary anyway, that the barge did not break through and cause the break, that the levee broke first, bringing that barge in, but, as Lisa noted, a major reconstruction project to bring that in.
Now, the Lower Ninth is one of the city's poorest neighborhoods; $27,000 a year is the average annual income, well below the national average. Fifty-four percent of the people who live in that neighborhood rent their houses. Again, that is way above the national average.
One of the key questions now is, given all that devastation you could just see in the Ninth Ward, can they rebuild it? What kind of levee would they have to build on that site of such devastation to allow people to live in the neighborhood once again?That is, of course, not only a question for the city of New Orleans. It is a key question for many of the people who live in that neighborhood,
Janvier Marchand lives in the city's hard-hit Lower Ninth Ward. He will join us now. Sir, can you hear us?
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Mr. Marchand still cannot hear us. We will get him wired up in just a moment.
As you can see, the devastation around him. I can tell you that, as bad as that looks, that neighborhood has improved considerably. We're going to try to come back to Mr. Marchand in just a minute. They are trying to wire him up technically. We will come back to that.
And also still to come, hurricane and religion. Preacher Franklin Graham says New Orleans is a sinful city and that God is going to use the storm to bring revival to the Big Easy. He'll join us live in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Plus, the deadly bird flu. President Bush considers possible quarantines and the use of the military if there's an outbreak here in the United States. How far should the government go to stop the spread of a virus? We will take a closer look.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM.
Our apologies for the glitch a bit earlier, but we want to take you now back to the historic Lower Ninth Ward in New Orleans.
Janvier Marchand lives the in the city's hard-hit ward. And he says he planned to rebuild. Mr. Marchand joins us now live from the scene of such devastation.Sir, you own your home; is that correct?
JANVIER MARCHAND, RESIDENT OF NEW ORLEANS: Yes, I do.
KING: And you want to rebuild. And, yet, if my understanding is correct, you live in the first line, if you will, behind that levee.
MARCHAND: Right. The first house -- the first house collapsed and shielded my house. So, my house is still standing. But the first hit house collapsed.
KING: And have you had a conversation, let's start -- never mind the city's plans -- with your insurance company? Will your insurance company allow you to rebuild on that site?
MARCHAND: I don't know. I'm supposed to meet with them tomorrow. But the house is structurally sound. With all of the abandonment around, I don't know if they will, because it's a lot of clear, clear land around me.
KING: As you know, sir, there's a great debate whether it is safe to ever allow people to live again in your community because of the destruction of the levee.
The secretary of Housing and Urban Development was in your area the other day. And he told the mayor he does not think they should allow the ward to be rebuilt. What do you say to that?
MARCHAND: Well, I have seen all the devastation going on in Florida, one right after the other. And they are talking about -- they are always rebuilding. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't rebuild.
KING: And is that, sir, a question in your mind that is best addressed by the mayor, by the president of the United States?
MARCHAND: Excuse me?
KING: Who do you think should take the lead in making sure they rebuild your neighborhood? Is that a question for the mayor? Is that a question for the president of the United States?
MARCHAND: That's a question for the mayor.
KING: And are you getting the information you think you need from the city government right now?
MARCHAND: No.
KING: I was in your neighborhood, sir, last week. And one of the concerns raised by your city councilwoman, raised by a few ministers I ran into on the street, is that they worry, because it's one of the city's poorest neighborhoods, that, if the devastation we can see behind you is cleared and that area is bulldozed and they rebuild a stronger levee, the people with a lot more money than the people who lived in that neighborhood a little more than a month ago are going to want that land. Do you share that worry?
MARCHAND: Yes. Yes, I do.
(CROSSTALK) MARCHAND: So, why would they want to -- why would they not want to rebuild and they -- if you build a levee up and then the Ninth gets valuable, we shouldn't give up our land.
KING: You say you shouldn't give up your land. What reassurances are you seeking from the mayor and from others that you -- not only that you can move back, but what about many of your neighbors who were even less fortunate than you, sir, who did not own their homes? What rights should they have to come back?
MARCHAND: Well, you have to do something. You have to live somewhere.
KING: I'm sorry, sir?
MARCHAND: I say, you have to do something. Something has to be done. You just can't leave them out, you know, just hanging.
KING: And where are you living?
MARCHAND: Something has to be done.
KING: Where are you living in the interim, sir?
MARCHAND: I'm in Beaumont.
KING: In Beaumont, Louisiana, or Texas?
MARCHAND: Texas.
KING: Beaumont, Texas.
MARCHAND: Beaumont, Texas. I'm staying with one of my cousins right now.
KING: So, you were there when Rita hit?
MARCHAND: I was in Beaumont. I had to evacuate from Beaumont. So, I came back to St. Rose.
KING: It's been more than a difficult six weeks for you, sir. We thank you for your time today.
MARCHAND: Yes.
KING: And we wish you the best. And we will keep an eye on your community in the weeks and months ahead, we promise.
MARCHAND: OK. Thank you.
KING: Thank you, sir. Take care.
We want to go back now to New York and Ali Velshi with more details of the dramatic announcement by the mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, a bit earlier today that some 3,000 city employees will likely be laid off -- Ali. VELSHI: John, it doesn't come as much of a surprise. The mayor had been sort of hinting that this is the number. Of the 12,000 city workers, he knew that these workers were in trouble. He had been asking for help in trying to finance this.
Now, under federal regulations FEMA can't -- FEMA can pay for overtime work for local employees, but they can't -- they can't sort of fund the ongoing operations of the city council. Now, Governor Blanco of New Orleans -- of Louisiana was asking the federal government to repeal the prohibition from letting FEMA subsidize some of these places.
And this is just New Orleans. All of those parishes around are in the same situation. They have no businesses in there right now. And, in most cases, they don't have a lot of people living there. There's no tax revenue coming in. They have got to pay for their operations. And, as soon as it stops being an emergency problem, someone has got to pay for it.
Now, New Orleans has employed 80,000 people separately just in the tourism industry. And, in our look of what is going on, in terms of who is hiring, it does seem to be that a lot of people in service jobs, a lot of hotels, restaurants, seem to be looking for workers. But remember that just before Hurricane Katrina hit, New Orleans had an unemployment rate that was slightly higher than the national average.
Of course, having Katrina come in and displace all these people has set the unemployment rolls up. Right now about 270,000 people, the government estimates, a total of 400,000 people, could be out of work as a result. So, these 3,000 people on the city payrolls of New Orleans are really one of the first official announcements we're hearing about layoffs.
What we're not hearing, John, is that not only are jobs wiped out, the places where people worked are wiped out. And there won't be an announcement that those jobs won't be there, because there won't be businesses to employ them.
In the cases of the largest employers, Wal-Marts, McDonald's, Home Depots, companies like that, they have allowed their people to go to other states and other areas and take jobs. But for the bulk of people employed in service industries in New Orleans, they would be lucky to get a formal announcement that they are out of a job. This is the first of many, John.
KING: Thank you, Ali, questions to be answered not only in New Orleans, but here in Washington, as the Congress and the president debate what to do to help those affected people. Ali Velshi, thank you very much.
And now to our Zain Verjee. She joins us from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at other stories making news. Hi, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNNHN ANCHOR: Hi, John. Good to see you. Nine people in California face charges they tried to steal Red Cross donations to Hurricane Katrina victims. The Justice Department says at least $25,000 was taken. The suspects allegedly got the codes for contributions made to a Red Cross call center in Bakersfield. They then allegedly cashed in the donations at Western Union. Eight of them are under arrest, and the ninth suspect is still at large.
A Florida boy who was jailed for killing a 6-year-old playmate is in more trouble with the law. Lionel Tate is now charged with criminal mischief. The sheriff's deputy says Tate broke the glass in his cell door. He had been free on probation, but the 18-year-old went back into jail in May for allegedly robbing a pizza deliveryman.
A possible key capture by Pakistani authorities. The country's information minister says Pakistan has arrested the Taliban's chief spokesman. He was seized in southwestern Pakistan, in Baluchistan, along the border with Afghanistan. Pakistani intelligence officials are questioning him. The Taliban ruled Afghanistan until the United States invaded in 2001. Taliban insurgents still battle U.S. and Afghan forces.
French media are calling it "Black Tuesday." Tens of thousands of rail, bus, and tram workers are striking across France today. Thousands demonstrated in Paris to protest the government's economic and labor policies. A few trains and buses are running. And they are packed. Aviation authorities say more than 400 flights out of Paris' two main airports could be canceled.
And you know, John, with the situation in France, people are used to these strikes happening all the time. And most of them just say, eh, we're just going to stay home.
KING: Eh. I can't quite say that like you do. Thank you, Zain.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: We will be back to you a bit later.
Millions of Americans under quarantine, it's a worst-case scenario in a possible bird flu epidemic. We will show you why the government is seriously considering it.
Plus, revival in New Orleans. Evangelist Franklin Graham calls it a city of sin, ready, he says, for renewal. Franklin Graham will join us in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Post-Hurricane Katrina, evangelist Franklin Graham recently likened New Orleans to a city of sin, saying - quote -- "God is going to use that storm to bring revival." Reverend Graham is my guest now from Boone, North Carolina. Reverend Graham, I want to ask you about that quote.
I want to read you something you said. "There's been Satanic worship in New Orleans. There's been sexual perversion. God is going to use that storm to bring a revival. God has a plan. God has a purpose."
Sir, what did you mean by that? I assume that many residents of the city of New Orleans would take that as beyond insensitive.
REV. FRANKLIN GRAHAM, EVANGELIST: No, I disagree with you. I think there are many residents of New Orleans who would agree with me. The Archbishop himself on Sunday at the first mass at the cathedral there said he prayed that the new makeup of New Orleans would be -- have a stronger moral fiber, free from racial tension, and also less rampant self-indulgence. And so he is praying for a city that has a stronger moral fiber. The churches that I have met with, the pastors down there, are praying that they will see a change in New Orleans in the years and months to come.
Now, New Orleans has been known, of course, as a party city for Mardi Gras, Voodoo, all types of things like this -- Bourbon Street. And as a minister of the gospel, there are a lot of people in New Orleans that are praying that God will bring a stronger, moral fiber to this city than this city has ever had before.
KING: When you use words though, sort of like "God has a plan, God has a purpose," I don't assume you're trying to say that this storm happened and hit New Orleans because of any activity of its people?
GRAHAM: No, I certainly don't. I would never say that this is God's judgment on New Orleans or any other place. In the scripture, Jesus mentioned some men that were killed in Jerusalem when a tower fell. And he asked the question, do you suppose they were worse sinners than all the others in Jerusalem because they died this way? And he said no. He said but unless you repent, you, too, will perish.
And I believe God has a plan and purpose for everything in life. And sometimes there are storms in life and we have to look beyond those storms, and just trust God, that God will use this storm in a way that will benefit the people of New Orleans and the people of Louisiana and Mississippi in a much stronger way in the years to come.
There's some good things that can come out of this, even though we don't see it right now. I believe New Orleans will be a much stronger city in the years to come.
KING: Another thing you said in the wake of this is -- and you just touched on it a moment ago -- speaking of New Orleans -- quote -- "It's a city that has strong ties to the gay and lesbian movement and these type of things."
Is it your hope now, sir, that these elements, the gay and lesbian community, will somehow be purged from New Orleans?
GRAHAM: Well, I certainly hope that the gospel of Jesus Christ will be preached. I want to see men and women converted. Jesus said "I am the way, the way and truth and light. No man comes to the Father but by me."
I believe that the only way that we can approach a holy God is through the person of Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ came for sinners. I am a sinner, and Jesus Christ gave his life on the Calvary's cross for the sins of this world. We put our faith and trust in him. God will forgive us and he will cleanse us of all of our sins.
And I would certainly pray that the gay and lesbian movement, the people that have this lifestyle, will come to know Jesus Christ as their personal lord and savior and experience their sins being forgiven. God -- the Bible says "God so loves the world" -- that includes New Orleans -- "that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shouldn't perish but have everlasting life."
KING: Sir, I was in New Orleans last week, and as the French Quarter started to reopen among the first businesses to reopen were the strip clubs. By your account of God's purpose, I would assume that things aren't going as you would envision them or wish them so far?
GRAHAM: Well, this is the type of thing that I think the Archbishop and other ministers would hope would not reopen in New Orleans.
KING: Let me ask you about -- there's a bigger question here about what type of New Orleans will be rebuilt. Should the energy of church and men of faith like yourself be spent on worrying about what the gay community and the lesbian community does, or would it be better focused on worrying about what happens in the Lower Ninth Ward where most of the residents live way below the poverty line?
Most of them rented and do not have a right to return to their home. They don't even know if their community will be rebuilt. And their fear is that rich developers will not get in there and they will not be welcomed home. What is a better use, if you will, of the focus of the church?
GRAHAM: Well, first of all I'm not focused on the gay and lesbian movement. That's not my issue. Samaritan's Purse, the organizations I represent, and the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, we're working with the churches in New Orleans trying to house people. I'm bringing trailers in to New Orleans trying to provide homes and shelters. We're fixing roofs on housing that were damaged, so that's my focus.
But I agree, that there is going to be a land grab in New Orleans. And unfortunately it's going to be the poor people in that Lower Ninth Ward and other areas where their land -- I'm not saying it's going to be taken from them, but they won't be allowed to rebuild and someone else will come in. They will be compensated, I'm sure, but somebody else is going to come in and make a pretty big profit off their misfortune. And that's probably what is going to happen.
But you've got a Democratic mayor and a Democratic elected governor, and I would certainly hope that these men and women will do everything they can to stand up and protect the poor.
KING: You don't worry, sir, that at a time when those are the big issues on the table, that talking about Satanic worship, saying that God has a purpose for New Orleans, criticizing the influence of the gay and the lesbian community -- there are those who agree with you profoundly. There are those who disagree with you profoundly. You're not at all concerned that can become a distraction at a time when, in the eyes of many, there would be bigger issues on the table?
GRAHAM: It's not a distraction for me. And I just spoke with the White House today about the trailers that FEMA has. You know there are thousands and thousands of trailers. And I think these trailers ought to be given -- these mobile homes ought to be given to the churches for the ministers in the community to decide what are the poor families that need these trailers, and not the government. I don't think the government should be in the trailer park business. I don't think they know how to run a trailer park.
But if you give these five trailers to every church and let every church in Louisiana have five trailers, and to take in five families that lost their homes and let the church look after them and care for them, and then at the end of one year, let the church take possession of the trailer. It can be theirs. They can sell it. They can give it to another family, do whatever they want to do. But the management of those trailers ought to be in the hands of the churches and not the federal government. These are issues we need to be focusing on.
KING: And what was the White House response, sir, when you raised the point? And as you answer, most people here in Washington say yes, things were botched in the beginning. They think things are going pretty well right now. Is that a fair assessment or are things not going so well?
GRAHAM: Well, I think things are going better. But as you go down the road, you're learning things every day. And you always have hindsight. The president, Bush, has done more than any other president. I think he has done a fantastic job with this. And absolutely things as you look with hindsight could have been done better. But he's on the right track. He's doing the right thing. And, of course, my suggestion about these trailers -- it was told to me that that would be given to Homeland Security, and that suggestion would be listened to. So we'll wait and see.
KING: Reverend Franklin Graham. Sir, thank you for your time today.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
KING: One of the more provocative voices, controversial to some, as the nation considers how to rebuild New Orleans. Thank you, sir.
And what would happen if bird flu hit here in the United States? President Bush expressed his concerns this morning. Our Brian Todd looks at that threat, next.
And later in THE SITUATION ROOM, as Katrina and Rita proved, hurricanes can be both dangerous and devastating. Is there anything we can do to fight back? We'll tell you about some very interesting ideas.
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In our CNN "Security Watch," imagine millions of Americans quarantined in a deadly flu outbreak. The federal government is already considering such a scenario as concern grows over a possible bird flu epidemic. At his news conference this morning, President Bush says he's looking at a possibility military role in such an epidemic. He also said work continues on a vaccine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Obviously, it would be helpful if we had a breakthrough in the capacity to develop a vaccine that would enable us to feel comfortable here at home, that not only would first responders be able to be vaccinated, but as many Americans as possible and people around the world. But, unfortunately, there is a -- we're just not that far down the manufacturing process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: For more now on the threat of a bird flu epidemic, we're joined by Michael Osterholm in Minneapolis. He's the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research at the University of Minnesota. Thank you for joining us, sir. Let's begin with the basic threshold question. The president raised this concern today in quite a bit of detail at the White House. How big is the threat and when is the threat, if you will?
DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Well, the threat is actually very big. The potential for a pandemic influenza is very real, given the situation of avian influenza problem in Southeast Asia. We think that we're potentially very close to that virus mutating into one that can readily be transmitted to humans.
The question is when. None of us know. Could it be tonight? Yes. Could it be next year? Could it be several years from now? All those are possibilities. But it's one that I think most of us believe will be inevitable.
KING: Let's talk first about prevention, then. The president talked about a spray that has been used or at least tested in some capacity. He says there's a vaccine, at least in the pipeline. Your assessment? Was he overly optimistic?
OSTERHOLM: Well, first of all, I think that all of us in the influenza area and public health preparedness are very appreciative that the president has really prioritized this issue within the federal government. And we are very fortunate that he's doing that, given the potential implications. Frankly, we need this on a worldwide basis, to be prioritized with the same kind of energy.
In terms of prevention, we have to be honest, though. We can't just have happy talk where we basically tell everybody we're prepared. We saw what happens when the hurricane hit New Orleans and the Gulf states. In that sense, no, we have a long ways to go. We have vaccines that are experimental vaccines that we have really no way to produce them for this country or for the world. The same thing is true with our drugs. And we're going to be really dealing with this in the most fundamental of community response ways.
KING: Well if, God forbid, there is such an epidemic, one of the scenarios the president talked about today was quarantine -- essentially using the United States military to quarantine a state or a community, perhaps a bigger region of the country. Is that feasible?
OSTERHOLM: Well, again, I congratulate the president for willingness to put all assets on the table. And the military will clearly play a key role. But we believe it will be largely logistics, not quarantine.
Quarantine is something that you can use for certain infectious agents, even those transported by what we call the respiratory route or the breathing route, like smallpox or even SARS, that are much less infectious.
There's never been any evidence you can really quarantine effectively communities or regions of anywhere against influenza. This is a highly infectious virus. It's one that you actually can be infectious with before you get sick. And so, at the very most, if you tried to quarantine, you might just slow it down a little bit. But we really have no data. So I think the military will play a key role, but it probably won't be in quarantine, it will be in logistic support for our communities.
KING: Sir, if you could do one thing to stop this from reaching the United States, what would it be?
OSTERHOLM: The quite honest truth is we can't. We won't stop it. That's where the happy talk has to end, if people believe that's a possibility. That's something that hits people between the eyes. We have to say it's going to happen some day. Our job is to be honest and to say, OK, so then what can we do about it? We won't have vaccines in the foreseeable future in any amount. We won't have drugs in the amount that will be effective. We just have to make sure that we've got our basic communities prepared for how you're going to provide food and water for 12 to 18 months. How are you going to provide people housing? How are you going to take care of the healthcare systems? Our hospitals will be overrun. We'll run out of ventilators. We'll run out drugs. How are we going to get through that? That's the basic plans we need right now.
Last but not least -- you yourself saw this in New Orleans -- we need to find a way to deal with what could be many, many dead bodies. When we lose that sense of respect and dignity for a dead body, it is a signal to the entire community that sets off concern to the point of panic, potentially. We need to figure out how are we going to handle what could be many hundreds of thousands of dead bodies? That's the kind of planning we need right now. And that's what is going to get us through this.
KING: Sir, anyone watching this just heard you say prepare for hundreds of thousands of dead bodies. Is that inevitable, or is that your worst-case scenario?
OSTERHOLM: That's not a worst-case scenario. You're going to be hearing more in the next week about several different scientific efforts that really show that there is a tremendous potential for this virus, H5N1, in Southeast Asia, to be very similar to what it does in a population as the 1918 virus did. And so this is not just some kind of well, let's take a worst-case scenario. In 1918, in a world population of only 1.8 billion, this virus killed between 50 to 100 million people worldwide.
The kinds of illnesses that people experienced with this virus are ones that we're not much better prepared to deal with today in our medical setting than we were in 1918, so modern medical science isn't going to save us. If you extrapolate the 1918 numbers today, in other words, don't -- no increase at all -- you're talking about 180 to 360 million deaths worldwide. In this country, you're talking about 1.7 million deaths that could occur in a 12 to 16 month period. Those numbers are absolutely possible. They're not worst-case scenario.
Worst-case scenario would be saying in Vietnam, in Thailand and so forth, where we have seen roughly a 50 percent case fatality rate, as opposed to a 5 percent, as we saw in 1918, what if that happens? Now you're talking about a billion deaths. I think none of us believe that's going to be the case. So the numbers we're talking about are a very realistic, honest evaluation from a lot of different scientists.
KING: Unfortunately, we're out of time, sir. Very sobering, incredibly sobering assessment from you. Michael Osterholm of the Center for Infectious Disease Research in Minneapolis.
And much more on this story, continuing ahead in THE SITUATION ROOM. Anthony Fauci -- Dr. Anthony Fauci of the National Institutes of Health will join us in the 5:00 hour.
And remember, stay tuned to CNN for the latest updates on your security.
Want to lend a hand in helping the hurricane relief effort without actually going to the devastated areas? Coming up, you might consider becoming a virtual volunteer, doing work while sitting in front of the computer. We'll tell you about that.
And it's a CNN exclusive. Our Brian Todd tags along on drug raids aimed at protecting children from the methamphetamine epidemic. We'll show you this amazing report.
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KING: After Hurricanes Rita and Katrina, many of you, of course, want to help the relief effort, but can't get to the Gulf to do it in person. Now there's a way to help from the comfort of your own computer.
Our Internet reporters Jacki Schechner and Abbi Tatton have more. Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: John, the idea is virtual volunteering, giving of your time and expertise online. You can do it with just a computer connection and a telephone. And eight organizations are hoping you can give up your time to help.
One of them launched today, Project Restore Hope. This is through the not-for-profit group Operation Hope. What they're trying to do is return financial stability to the people who have been affected by Hurricanes Rita and Katrina. They're looking for specific people to volunteer virtually online. They're looking for people with background in finance, in banking or insurance, to work over the telephone with people who have been affected by the hurricanes and restore their financial future to them.
There are many more virtual opportunities that come in very many shapes and sizes. You can find more of them at usafreedomcorps.gov., which President Bush announced last month would be the clearinghouse for volunteer opportunities.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: A lot of the sites that you'll get to through that is this Volunteer Match. And it has all sorts of opportunities beyond the finance that we were talking about. For example, you can develop and manage a Web site for a distribution center.
There's also other sites that have worldwide opportunities, not just for the victims of Hurricane Katrina. That would be charityguide.org, has a virtual volunteering section. And they have something netaid.org, that has those worldwide opportunities,
John, we just wanted to point something out to you that they pointed as well. You have to be self-motivated and highly committed to work from home, because there will be nobody watching over you. Clearly, you can do it from the comfort of this own home, or, if you look at this Web site, while you are fishing.
John.
KING: Self-motivated and highly committed.
Ahead, was something missing when President Bush faced reporters today? We'll go beyond to what he said to how he said it. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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KING: It's almost time for the markets to close and the closing bell. Let's check in with our Ali Velshi for that and much, much more. Hey, Ali.
VELSHI: John, tough day in the markets right now. We have oil below $64. Partially because the government has talked about the fact that it is -- it's prepared to release some heating oil reserves, if there are shortages this winter. But you know, nine or 10 million American homes use heating oil. More than 60 million use natural gas.
Natural gas is where we're seeing the spikes. And we're seeing that filter through to companies. There was a report out yesterday that many companies say that natural gas and energy prices are, in fact, a bigger concern to them than even healthcare is right now. Let me give you some examples of what's going on. Procter & Gamble downgraded today because it says its raw material costs are higher as a result of the hurricanes. It's begun substituting coconut oil for petroleum-based ingredients in some of its consumer products. Goodyear Tire saying it's cutting back production at some of its North American plants by up to 30 percent because of the higher cost of the raw materials as a result of Katrina. And Clorox says high energy prices are hurting its profits, as well.
Now, on top of that, we got a report from Gale Norton, the Interior secretary: 3,050 out of 4,000 rigs and platforms were in the direct path of Hurricanes Rita and Katrina. So far, reports are that over a hundred platforms were damaged. Three rigs remain unaccounted for. Thirteen rigs are adrift at the moment. And 90 percent of oil production in the Gulf of Mexico is still shut down.
In fact, she said between Katrina and Rita, they never got higher than about 45 percent of oil production back online. They shut it back down.
Some of those that are damaged, those that are ready to be staffed again can be staffed within about 10 days. But several hundred, or a few hundred are not even staffed. And those with major damage could be offline until about next year, John. Looks like 12 refineries remain shut down as a result of the two hurricanes. That's 15 percent of U.S. gasoline and refined product capacity.
So as you can see, John, you know, as the worst passes by, we now see these damage reports coming in. The only good news in this one is that Secretary Norton said that the underwater pipelines weren't damaged as badly by Rita and Katrina as they were by Hurricane Ivan. I don't know if you recall, but that was a big part of Ivan's damage. It twisted those pipelines underneath the sea. So, so far, not so bad.
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KING: Ali Velshi explaining the still coming ramifications of all this energy controversy post-hurricane. Ali Velshi, thank you very much.
It's 4:00 p.m. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where news and information from around the world arrive at one place simultaneously.
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