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The Situation Room

Harriet Miers Nomination; Roy Moore Interview; NYC Transit Threat; Rove to Testify

Aired October 07, 2005 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we'll stand by and watch. Ali, thank you very much.
It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington. And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where news and information from around the world arrive at one place simultaneously.

Happening now, the president predicts his Supreme Court nominee will be confirmed, despite a revolt raging on the Republican right.

He's relentlessly pursued politicians, mobsters and terrorists. Now he's responsible for finding out who outed a CIA operative. Should White House officials be worried?

And it's 3:00 p.m. in Birmingham, Alabama. Removed from office when he refused to remove the Ten Commandments, the former state chief justice, Roy Moore, now wants to move into the governor's office. I'll have a live one-on-one interview.

I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Conservatives, at least many of them, are voicing doubt. Some are even voicing outrage and betrayal. But despite the extraordinary protests from fellow conservatives and Republicans, President Bush is standing by his pick for the Supreme Court. Let's go live to our White House correspondent, Dana Bash.

Hi, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf.

And first, I can tell you that a Bush adviser says Harriet Miers is actually leaving Washington this weekend, going back to Texas, to go through some of her documents, some of her papers, to prepare to get information to fill out a questionnaire that she's going to have to send up to Capitol Hill to the Senate Judiciary Committee and, of course, prepare for the hearings that will be upcoming.

But when it comes to what you talked about, the revolt of sorts among conservatives, the president made it very clear he's sticking with Harriet Miers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): An Oval Office moment to remember. Just four days after tapping Harriet Miers for the Supreme Court, the president is asked if he'll give in to scathing criticism and withdraw her nomination.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She'll be confirmed. And when she's on the bench, people will see a fantastic woman who is honest, open, humble, and capable of being a great Supreme Court judge.

BASH: What's jaw-dropping, calls for withdrawal are not coming from Democrats but some furious fellow conservatives, writing columns calling her nomination an insult to the institution, even scandalous.

BILL KRISTOL, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": It's a mistake that could be rectified by Ms. Miers deciding that it might be for the good of her president if she stepped aside.

BASH: Privately, Bush aides are stunned, saying Republicans should trust the president, who in two campaigns rallied conservatives with this promise.

BUSH: We stand for judges who strictly and faithfully interpret the law instead of legislating from the bench.

BASH: But many rank-and-file say Miers isn't what they bargained for, that they've been burned by presidents who said, "Trust me," with justices like David Souter and Anthony Kennedy, who turned out to be too moderate.

JESSICA ECHARD, EAGLE FORUM: This is a letdown for the conservative base. Most of the folks who voted for President Bush are not energized by this nomination. And we believe that will be drawn out and evidenced in the '06 elections.

BASH: One key conservative senator is openly concerned about Miers' unknown record on issues like abortion.

SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: We're left to try to gather little pieces and shreds of evidence and do almost a "CSI"-type of operation to try to conjecture out of that where a person will be.

BASH: An urgent, week-long White House effort to stop the blaze of anger has had some success. After calls from Karl Rove and Miers confidants, the influential Focus on the Family's James Dobson told supporters he was reluctantly taking the president's word for it.

JAMES DOBSON, FOCUS ON THE FAMILY: ... with fear and trepidation.

BASH: Cries of cronyism, attacks on his friend clearly irritate the president. He went back to a reporter...

BUSH: I made it clear.

BASH: ... making sure he made his point: He's sticking with Miers.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BASH: And Bush aides say calls for the withdrawal of Miers' nomination are coming from what one called "elitist inside-the-Beltway Republicans." And they insist that, once people start to understand what they admit is an unknown record, Harriet Miers, people, especially on the Republican, will begin to accept her more.

But they also say, Wolf, they're keeping their eye on the ball that matters now, and that is getting Democrats and Republicans enough votes there to get Miers confirmed -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Dana Bash in the Briefing Room at the White House. Dana, thank you very much.

Karl Rove, meanwhile, will testify again before that grand jury in the CIA leak case. As a top adviser to the president, he's powerful and he's tough. But has Karl Rove met his potential match? He's up against the special prosecutor who's gone after terrorists, and mobsters, and plenty of politicians.

Let's get some more information. Our national correspondent, Bob Franken, standing by here in Washington.

Hi, Bob.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Wolf.

And I guess it's appropriate that we're now in the playoff season for baseball, because this is a man who definitely knows how to play hardball.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice-over): Patrick Fitzgerald has been described as intense, determined. And it's not just the coerced to testify and even jailed Washington reporters who might see him that way, nor the figures at the highest levels of the federal government he's investigating.

Just ask all the politicians he's targeted in Illinois in his day job as a U.S. attorney there. That would include Chicago, of course, where Fitzgerald's office is tackling Democratic Mayor Richard Daley's administration.

MAYOR RICHARD DALEY (D), CHICAGO: This morning, I met in my office for two hours with representatives of the U.S. attorney's office. When there's wrongdoing in government, I take responsibility for it.

FRANKEN: Fitzgerald says he's investigating widespread corruption in Daley's city hall. More than 20 have been convicted so far. Or ask the former Republican governor, George Ryan, on trial now for racketeering and fraud back while in office. The prosecution is run by Fitzgerald.

FMR. GOV. BOB RYAN (R), ILLINOIS: I'm absolutely not guilty of those charges. FRANKEN: And Fitzgerald is a relative newcomer to Chicago. Most of his career was spent in New York. As an assistant U.S. attorney, he took on terrorists, part of the team that gained convictions of Al Qaeda associates for the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Africa and five defendants for the 1993 World Trade Center bombings.

When he wasn't pursuing terrorists, he was battling organized crime, prosecuting, among others, mobster John Gambino.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: Now his focus is on leaks, possibly illegal leaks, of classified information. Fitzgerald is living up to his record of being totally relentless. And one other note: Neither Fitzgerald nor his office would comment for this report -- Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Bob, thank you very much.

So is Karl Rove in trouble, and if so, how much? Let's get some legal analysis. We turn to Jeff Toobin for that.

Jeff, is he potentially in serious legal trouble?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I would emphasize potentially, but, yes, he is. And what makes his situation so unusual is that, for a powerful person, he's in a uniquely vulnerable position here.

Because, ordinarily, someone under investigation, as he clearly is, would be told by his lawyer, "Shut up. Don't testify before the grand jury. Don't say anything." But because Karl Rove is answering to a president who says everybody has to cooperate, he's now on his way back to the grand jury for a fourth time. And no criminal suspect wants to be in a position like that.

BLITZER: Nothing to hide, if he's done nothing wrong, what's wrong with talking as much as he wants before a grand jury, or FBI agents, or anyone else?

TOOBIN: Well, potentially, there's nothing -- there's no problem with that. But, you know, in the real world, when you are under criminal investigation, your lawyer tells you to shut up.

You know, if Martha Stewart had never spoken to the investigators, there would be no crime, because the only thing she was accused of was lying to the U.S. attorney. Karl Rove, by talking to the investigators, is vulnerable to charges of perjury and obstruction of justice if he doesn't tell the truth. If you shut up, you have no worries about that.

BLITZER: So if Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor, cannot indict anyone on the original complaint that someone illegally released the identity of a clandestine CIA officer, is it likely he would go after others on some of these tangential charges, conspiracy, perjury, a cover-up, if you will? TOOBIN: Certainly, that is, frankly, I think the more likely charge to come out of this case. The statute under which he's investigating, leaking classified information, there has never been a trial that resulted in a conviction in that case.

There have been almost no prosecutions. There's been one guilty plea. It's a very unusual statute. It's got a lot of technical requirements that the person who leaks the name has to know that the person was under cover. It's very difficult to prove.

But when you've got all these people marching in and out of the grand jury, you have the potential for obstruction and perjury. And those cases, generally, are a lot easier to prove.

But, Wolf, I want to be clear. I have no idea what was said in this grand jury and neither does anyone else. So the evidence here is really unknown to us. So we shouldn't assume that he's guilty in any way.

BLITZER: No, we are not assuming that by any means. We're just trying to read a few tea leaves here and there as we often do in advance of any legal action or lack thereof. Jeff, thanks very much.

Jeff Toobin's our senior legal analyst.

Let's go to Jack Cafferty right now. He's in New York. It's a pretty perplexing situation involving Karl Rove.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, is Jeff still there, Toobin?

BLITZER: Yes.

CAFFERTY: Jeff, how unusual is it for somebody to go four times back before the same grand jury? Does that happen often?

TOOBIN: I wouldn't say it's unprecedented, but it's pretty unusual. It tends to happen in a situation like this, Jack, where you have sort of people cooperating gradually.

You know, here we've had these reporters who fought on and on to try not to testify. They've now testified. So it's not totally surprising that he would want Rove and perhaps others to come in and react to what the other new evidence that he got in the course of the investigation.

CAFFERTY: Plus, I would think Mr. Fitzgerald has to be aware that every time he issues a summons for Mr. Rove that it makes programs like this, and newspapers all over the country, and certainly can't make Karl Rove feel comfortable about his situation, when he continues to get publicity about being summoned back, and back, and back again to this grand jury.

TOOBIN: That's why I think, when October 28th happens, and the grand jury expires, I think we'll really know at that point. Because this investigation has gone on, frankly, ridiculously long. It's almost two years. And even though he could extend the grand jury, October 28th seems like the date it ought to end.

CAFFERTY: All right, counselor. Thank you.

TOOBIN: See you, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Good to be with you.

Two years, as Jeff mentioned, since this whole thing got started, the criminal probe of the outing of the CIA agent, Valerie Plame, and still nothing. And while the world waits for the outcome of the special prosecutor's investigation, so far there is no indication that anybody is going to be indicted.

Meanwhile, we've had a reporter go to jail over refusing to reveal her sources, but no one involved in the actual crime, the outing of this agent, has stood trial or gone to jail, maybe never will. That's the question.

Will anyone, do you think, ever go to prison over the outing of CIA agent Valerie Plame? Caffertyfile -- one word -- @cnn.com. Unburden yourself of your thoughts on this weighty issue, and we'll read some of the letters in a while -- Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Jack, thanks very much.

We're also watching a story here in the nation's capital, the Washington Monument right now shut down. The entire area around this popular tourist attraction evacuated on the Washington Mall between 15th and 17th Streets Northwest, if you're familiar with Washington, between Independence and Constitution.

A bomb threat was phoned in about 2:24 Eastern time, almost two hours or so ago, on this rainy day in the nation's capital. Sources telling us that this bomb threat had what was being described as limited credibility, but still local authorities, park police, D.C. police taking no chances whatsoever, acting with an abundance of caution, evacuating this area.

They're going through it. They're checking it out to make sure there is no bomb over at the Washington Monument. We'll check out this story and get more information as we get it from authorities.

Also coming up, a terrorist's tale of woe. Al Qaeda's number-two man writing to the terror network's number-one ally in Iraq, telling him times are tough, money is tight. Acts of savagery aren't helping the cause.

And Democrats chanting, "Shame, shame, shame," in an extraordinary display on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives. We'll tell you what happened.

And he brought a massive monument of the Ten Commandments into the courthouse. When he refused to take it out, he was ousted as Alabama's chief justice. Now he's running for governor of that state. I'll go one-on-one with Roy Moore.

You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's go to CNN's Betty Nguyen. She's joining us from the CNN Center in Atlanta right now with a closer look at other stories making news -- Betty?

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg defends his decision to beef up subway security after told by the FBI of what he calls a specific threat. Now, some intelligence officials say the information was not credible. Bloomberg says, if he makes a mistake, well, he'd rather it be on the side of caution.

The mayor encouraged New Yorkers to continue riding the subway and did so himself today, just to make his point.

The Pentagon says it intercepted a letter from Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden's right-hand man complains of a shortage of cash. The defense spokesman says the letter, believed to be written by Ayman al- Zawahiri, also laments the terrorist network faces defeat in Afghanistan. He warns that the slaughter of hostages and suicide attacks killing Muslim civilians may risk alienating what he calls the Muslim masses.

Well, the International Atomic Energy Agency and its director- general will share this year's Nobel Peace Prize. The Nobel committee praised Mohamed ElBaradei and the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog for efforts to prevent military use of nuclear energy and to ensure its use for peaceful purposes. ElBaradei says the award sends the message that they should stay the course with their efforts.

And forestry officials in San Diego County, California, say they expect to have a wildfire at the Mexico border fully contained by tomorrow evening. The so-called Border 50 fire spread into the U.S. from Mexico this week. It's burned about 4,000 acres.

And another fire, Wolf, to the north in Riverside County near Los Angeles has burned 6,000 acres. Officials say that fire is also nearing containment. So a little bit of good news there -- Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Betty, thank you very much.

Let's go up to New York right now. Our Deb Feyerick is standing by. She's got some new details on that New York City subway threat.

You broke this story for us yesterday almost 24 hours or so ago, Deb. What are you learning right now?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've got a couple of new pieces of information, Wolf. An official with intimate knowledge of the investigation tells CNN that one of the dates mentioned for a possible subway attack was today, October 7th. Another date that was mentioned, October 9th. And that's one of the reasons that officials obviously made the decision to go public with this news. Now, the information, as we reported yesterday, came from a source who had provided accurate information to U.S. intelligence in the past.

We are now being told by an official that that source had trained at a terror camp in Afghanistan, though he was questioned while he was in Iraq. Now, the official says that, based on that information, of course, the U.S. launched a joint operation with members of different agencies and that's when they rounded up three different men.

Another new piece of information that we're learning is that the official said that the three men in custody represent a mix of nationalities. And the only thing the official would say was that -- he could not specify -- but that several were Middle Eastern.

Now, concerning earlier reports that a terrorist might be in New York, the official said, that the source named an individual who was reported to be in the United States.

But both the FBI and officials at DHS have said, no, that is not the case. There is nobody in the United States. And they're not even sure that any such individual exists.

But, again, it was because the source named a particular individual, that is why that piece of information came out. So a couple of new things that we're following.

And also, Wolf, as you know, that incident this morning at Penn Station, well, I spoke to somebody there at Penn Station who said, "If it had been any other day, they would not have had had such a big, all-out effort," with people in hazmat suits, that they just would have treated it routinely. But because of this information, obviously, they went full speed ahead -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Well, that sounds like a major development what you're reporting now, Deb, that the initial source of this new threat to the New York subway system is a source that had been proven accurate, reliable in the past. That sounds like it's the major reason, I suspect, why the mayor of New York, the police commissioner of New York, the FBI assistant director in New York took this as seriously as they did.

FEYERICK: That's exactly right. And not only that, but the official with this knowledge of the investigation said that the source was actually given a polygraph test and he passed that part of the possible attack on the New York City subway. So that's why they really took this very, very seriously.

And, again, the evidences is, is that there was a joint operation that was launched as a result of this individual's information -- Wolf?

BLITZER: And that certainly raises this question: Why are federal authorities, at least those at the Department of Homeland Security here in Washington, saying that this may be a specific threat but it was not credible, if you will? It raises questions why DHS is playing down this threat and authorities in New York are really concerned.

FEYERICK: Absolutely. And it could also be the source of information, as well. The mayor today said that they really rely on the FBI for a good deal of information that comes forward. And the NYPD has a lot of people overseas. And so they really rely on firsthand information that they themselves collect, that they themselves gather.

So it may just be a different starting point as far as the information. But again, there was an operation, a joint operation, that was launched. So a lot of people at a lot of top agencies took this very seriously -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Deborah Feyerick, doing some excellent reporting for us. Deb, thank you very much. We're going to continue to cover that story in New York.

Also, a House divided right here in Washington. An angry demonstration from House Democrats after Republicans used all their strength and energy to push through an energy bill. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Turning now to the culture wars. Alabama's chief justice, Roy Moore, became a hero to Christian conservatives when he brought the Ten Commandments into the state supreme court. When he refused to move the massive monument, he was removed from office by an ethics panel.

Unrepentant, Moore announced this week he's running for governor of Alabama. He's joining us now from Birmingham.

Judge Moore, thanks very much for joining us.

ROY MOORE, FORMER ALABAMA CHIEF JUSTICE: Thank you, sir.

BLITZER: I want to get to your race for the governor's seat. I want to get to some other issues, including the Ten Commandments, in a moment.

MOORE: Sure.

BLITZER: But Harriet Miers, the president's choice to be a justice on the U.S. Supreme Court, a lot of your fellow conservatives are very nervous about this and some of them are very vocal. What about you?

MOORE: Well, like most Americans, we don't know much about her and we're really relying upon what the president says. I've heard some good things about her.

I don't really know her philosophy. I don't really think that it's necessary for a person to have to have been a judge to be on the court. But then again, I don't know about her philosophy.

BLITZER: Senator Trent Lott, a good conservative Republican from Mississippi, said this on Tuesday: "Is she the most qualified person? Clearly, the answer to that is no. There are a lot more men, women, minorities that are more qualified, in my opinion, by their experience than she is."

Would you agree with Senator Lott?

MOORE: Well, I would agree that I knew some of the others better, like Janice Rogers Brown. I thought she was well-qualified. But again, I don't know this lady, so I really can't make an assessment. I think I'll have to wait till the Senate -- I call it the inquisition begins.

BLITZER: Some conservatives who support the president say, you know what? We trust George W. Bush. He knows this woman. If she's good enough for him, she's good enough for us. Are you in that category?

MOORE: I can't judge another person by just trusting somebody else, because my judicial philosophy is a lot more conservative than perhaps even George Bush's.

BLITZER: All right. Let's get to some of the issues that you're interested in pursuing as a candidate for governor of your home state of Alabama. Some are suggesting you're running to try to get the Ten Commandments not only back into the courthouse in Alabama but into the governor's house, as well.

MOORE: No, actually, I've explained that very well. I have no plans to move the Ten Commandments monument back to Montgomery, but I do support the acknowledgement of God, and I would support and defend any person's right to acknowledge God as a sovereign source of law, liberty or government, simply because that is the foundation of our law, the foundation of our country.

It's part of the organic law, according to the United States code annotated. It's part of every Constitution in every state. So it can't be prohibited by federal court that violates the First Amendment and the Tenth Amendment.

BLITZER: What's wrong with the current Republican governor, Bob Riley? You're challenging a fellow Republican. Why do you want to weaken him up, the incumbent, in order to perhaps give ammunition to the Democrats?

MOORE: I'm not running against a man. I'm running for a state. And I think the people of this state have seen over the years the government in Montgomery, as the government in most states, have been distanced from the people.

They don't represent the people anymore. They represent special interests. And that's very true in the state of Alabama. And I think we can change that systemically. I think we can institute changes in the system that will automatically bring about good government and return control of the government back to the people of Alabama.

BLITZER: The "Birmingham News" quoted a political scientist at the University of Alabama as saying this, and I'll read from the newspaper's account. "William Stewart, a political scientist with the University of Alabama, said Moore" -- that would be you -- "sparked memories of former Governor George Wallace because of his fiery rhetoric lambasting federal officials. Stewart said Moore, like Wallace, knew how to stir up his crowd with issues, even those that are out of the governor's control."

Your reaction?

MOORE: Well, I think there is some similarities in the fact that I have a grassroots support in Alabama, as did Governor Wallace. However, we stand for different propositions. And my lamblasting, if you will, federal courts is simply because they've intruded into our lives.

When a court starts telling you how to worship and that you can't worship a God upon which this nation was founded, they're wrong. They violate the Tenth Amendment and the First Amendment. When judges start making law as opposed to interpreting law, they can't fulfill their oath of office.

Certainly, what I did in Alabama by displaying a monument did not violate the First Amendment. It was not a law. It was not religion. And it was not establishment, and I was not Congress.

BLITZER: One final question: If the Supreme Court rules that you have to take the words "under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance, what would you do?

MOORE: I would think that that was completely in opposition to the First Amendment. We'll take that issue up when it gets to Alabama. I will defend the acknowledgement of God against any court that says you can't.

Actually, the Supreme Court itself opens with "God save the United States and this honorable court." Are they now going to say that you can't use the word "God"? Then their own practice have violated it for most of our country's history.

And so does their oath they take of the president, "So help me God," on the Bible. Are they going to tell him he can't say, "So help me God"? Are they going to give back their money, marked "In God We Trust," which is our national motto? I don't think so, and I don't think the Supreme Court is going to go that far.

BLITZER: All right. Roy Moore, running for governor of Alabama. Thanks very much for joining us, judge.

MOORE: Thank you, Wolf. I appreciate it.

BLITZER: Appreciate your being here.

There was an extraordinary display on the U.S. House of Representatives' floor just a little while ago here in Washington. Republicans used all their political muscle to push through an energy bill.

Outnumbered Democrats had enough energy left for an angry demonstration. Let's get some specific details. Our congressional correspondent, Joe Johns, watched it had all happening. I was watching it on C-SPAN. It was very, very dramatic, Joe. Tell our viewers what happened.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, you know, we don't have a lot of drama around here on Capitol Hill on Friday afternoon because normally, the members of the House of Representatives are on their way to their home districts. But today was different.

The leadership put a controversial bill on the floor that would have increased the number of refineries in the country but a lot of people also said it could hurt the environment. Sparks flew. This was a vote that was supposed to last about five minutes.

It ended up lasting about 40 minutes, in fact, a great deal of arm twisting and trying to get people to vote for the bill, particularly on the Republican side, Democrats screaming that Republicans were being unfair. When it was over, Republicans did prevail by a very narrow margin, 212-210. Then Democrats, as you said, sparked a demonstration on the floor of the House of Representatives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Republican party ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the gentlelady have a parliamentary inquiry?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... to dishonor the wishes of the American people who have spoken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the gentlelady have a parliamentary ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have an parliamentary inquiry. When are you going to honor the ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The house will be in order.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the vote on the motion of the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Smith to suspend the rules and agrees to House current resolution 248 as amended on which the yeas and nays are ordered. The clerk will report the concurrent resolution.

(END VIDEO CLIP) JOHNS: It got so bad out there that Republicans, even including Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who's under indictment, were out there twisting arms to try to get votes -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Joe. Thank you very much. Let's go up to New York. Ali Velshi was watching this energy bill specifically. Ali, what was this fight all about?

VELSHI: Well, it's funny when Joe says this, because we thought the bill was defeated because it was 212 to 210. Then we found out it was 212 in favor of. These votes went back and forth. This refinery issue has split down party lines, the Republicans coming out right after the hurricane saying we need more refineries.

Well, that seems to make sense, especially to people paying a lot for gas. But what they're forgetting, there's one big reason why we haven't had refineries built in this country in 30 years. They're filthy, they're not good for the environment and there are a lot of people who think we shouldn't build them.

Whether or not that's the right argument or not, that's what this comes down to. The Democrats are saying you passed this bill to take advantage of public sentiment, and it's going to ruin the environment. That's what this is coming down to, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Ali. Thank you very much. We'll get back to you very soon. We've got some good news to report that all clear has now been given over at the Washington Monument here in Washington. A couple hours or so ago, there was a phone call, a bomb threat to the Washington Monument on the National Mall.

Local authorities, the National Park Police and others checked it out very thoroughly over the past two hours. They have now determined there's nothing there, an all clear. Even though it's raining here in Washington, people are going to be allowed to go back and visit the Washington Monument. Good news on that front.

Up next, fighting back against flu. As representatives from 80 countries plan a defense against a possible pandemic, the president urges drug makers to come up with a new vaccine.

And his Supreme Court pick may cost the president support from his own party. Is he already becoming a lame duck? We'll take a closer hook on that question. That's our play of the week. Bill Schneider standing by for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: They are surely problems the Bush administration wishes it didn't have: a Supreme Court nominee facing negative judgment from some conservatives, and a powerful presidential adviser giving testimony in a criminal investigation.

Let's talk a little bit more about Harriet Miers' nomination and the Karl Rove testimony involving the CIA leak case. For that, we're joined by our CNN political analysts, Donna Brazile and Bay Buchanan. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

Harriet Miers, first, Charles Krauthammer, the columnist in "The Washington Post" writing today, "for a presidency marked by a courageous willingness to think and do big things, this nomination is a sorry retreat into smallness. Bay, you're a good conservative.

BAY BUCHANAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure am.

BLITZER: Do you think he's got a point?

BUCHANAN: He absolutely has a point. This is a major mistake, a miscalculation for one thing and a very, very poor choice. There's a movement been going out there, Wolf, for 30 years. We've been there for the president. This is the core reason why conservatives have supported George Bush many, many times now. And this is what we wanted to pay back.

BLITZER: The president says trust me, I know this woman. She's with me as a strict constructionist. She's a good conservative.

BUCHANAN: There's absolutely no reason to know that because she doesn't have any king of paper trail which is something we find very offenseable (ph). We want somebody who's been battle scarred, who's tough, when they get in there is ready to fight and knows which direction to go in.

That's what you need to have somebody who's going to be strong there representing your views. But in addition to that, we've been told by a number of presidents five times -- trust me -- and we have lost all five times. We are not interested in that. He said Scalia or Thomas. Scalia and Thomas didn't give us any doubts. We knew where they were going to be. We want somebody like that.

BLITZER: All right. What should the Democrats -- what should their strategy be right now when the Republicans are fighting amongst themselves? It might be wise to just sort of stay on the sidelines and not interfere.

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's important that Democrats just be spectators at this point and watch the conservatives beat up on this woman. Look, we don't know enough about Harrier Miers to make an informed opinion about her. What we do know about her resume is that she is a conservative and that she supported George Bush and that she has backed many of his policies.

We'll learn more about her in the confirmation process. But the Alliance for Justice, an very prominent liberal activist group today released an 11-page report. And basically what they say said in this report is that we have to wait until the confirmation process to get a better understanding of her views and her judicial philosophy.

BUCHANAN: And Wolf, look what the White House has to do. They have to convince the that she's solid on Roe. That she will vote to overturn it to make us feel that that's probably what's going to happen. Then they've got to go to the Hill and say -- convince them that we don't know where she stands on that. We don't have any idea what they'll do there. How can they pull both of those stunts off successfully?

BLITZER: That's a tough challenge. Let's talk a little bit about Karl Rove right now. He's going to be testifying for a fourth time before this grand jury. What do you make of this?

BRAZILE: Well, I'm sure it's very troublesome for Karl to go back before the grand jury to either clean up something he said before or to clear the air, you know, regarding what other information that may have come to light since his last testimony in July. For the White House right now, to have its number player going back before the grand jury, this must be a risky situation for them.

And I don't know what the outcome is, but we do know it's been over 816 days since Valerie Plame's name was leaked, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

BUCHANAN: Clearly the White House can do nothing, but just take the same position they've taken all along, which is they can't comment on this.

BLITZER: They didn't take that at the beginning. At the beginning the president and his spokesman, they repeatedly said if anyone was involved with this, they're out of here. And that position has changed.

BUCHANAN: Sure. No question they've backed up on that and then they have just said we can't make any comment. I think -- you know, what worries me is professionally, obviously, Karl Rove wants to say he's working thoroughly, he'll come back as many times as he wants.

But, a good attorney would not let his client keep going back like this because, you know, you forget things, you say things differently, and it suggests that maybe there's some type of effort here to obfuscate the truth. And that's what his problem is. This is not good news for Karl Rove. It wouldn't be good news for any of us to have to go back four times ...

BRAZILE: It's not good news for Libby -- Scooter because he may have to go back and it's not good news for anyone else that may have to go back and either reiterate what they said before or change their story.

BUCHANAN: But, they don't have to go back, you see. They don't have to. And that's why I wonder if professionally, he's trying to cover himself but could cause himself some real legal problems.

BLITZER: And while so much attention is focused on Scooter Libby, the chief of staff of the vice president, and Karl Rove the deputy chief of staff for the president, there may be other administration officials out there who may be in even more serious legal trouble than the two of them. We don't know that, but that's certainly a possibility.

BUCHANAN: We don't know and a whole lot of people holding their breath until October 28th to see that this thing hopefully ...

BRAZILE: I think they're sitting on pins and needles because this is a very troublesome situation for the administration.

BUCHANAN: It is. Hopefully, it comes out.

BLITZER: We only have a few more days to wait. So, we're all patient, we'll see what's going on. If anything, maybe he'll come out and say never mind.

BUCHANAN: Hopefully no indictments whatsoever.

BLITZER: We'll see. Thanks very much.

BUCHANAN: Sure.

BLITZER: Coming up, Harriet Miers has been dropping in on senators hoping to introduce herself, maybe even garner some support. But when some Republican senators say they aren't charmed, that's cause for our political "Play of the Week." Bill Schneider standing by with that.

And in Iraq, at the end of a bloody offensive, dozens of terrorists are killed and six more American Marines die. We'll update you on Operation Iron Fist. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the hot shots coming in from the Associated Press, pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow. In New York City, police officers check a woman's bag during morning rush hour. The subway system, as you know, remains on high alert.

In Arlington, Virginia, MIA's home at last. A bugler plays "Taps" during the group funeral of 12 servicemen who were missing in action from the Vietnam War.

In Charlottesville, Virginia, Rolling Stones. Take a look at this. Rolling Stones concert interrupted, but everything got back, Mick finished out the act with everyone else. Some of the hot shots, some of the photographs coming in from our friends over at the Associated Press.

The battle over the nomination of Harriet Miers to the U.S. Supreme Court yields our "Play of the Week." Our senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider is here, he always does this on Fridays. And what do you got this week, Bill?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, when ambitious members of the president's own party score points against him, it's the sign the president may be becoming a lame duck and it's also the "Play of the Week."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R-KS), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Congratulations to the two ... SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas, a leading conservative, may run for president in 2008. You'd think a potential Republican contender would support President Bush down the line. Think again. Senator Brownback did not exactly rush to support Harriet Miers, Bush's pick for the Supreme Court.

BROWNBACK: We don't know the nominee. Of what this person will or won't do. And that there's a great deal of frustration with that.

SCHNEIDER: Many conservatives share that frustration.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her judicial philosophy is unknown.

SCHNEIDER: They want assurances up front that the new justice will move the court to the right. Brownback is making himself a spokesman for those doubters. That may not hurt him if he decides to run for the Republican nomination. Doesn't the president's word that Miers is a true conservative count for anything? Well, yes.

BROWNBACK: I do think she reflects the president, and I think that's the strongest thing really she has going for her.

SCHNEIDER: But, apparently not enough.

BROWNBACK: It would be better to -- let's have somebody that we know the record on.

SCHNEIDER: Other conservatives admonish their colleagues not to leap to conclusions about Miers.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Just shut up for a few minutes and just give the lady a chance, to find out who she is.

SCHNEIDER: But conservatives looking for someone to speak for them may turn to Brownback, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He's betting that loyalty to the cause will outweigh loyalty to the president. Could be a good bet. Definitely, the "Play of the Week."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: Senator Brownback voted to confirm John Roberts without knowing a lot about his views, but Roberts was not replacing a swing vote on the court like Sandra Day O'Connor. And anyway, Brownback said, quote, "John Roberts is a rock star while Harriet Miers is," quote, "following Elvis."

BLITZER: What does that mean, following Elvis?

SCHNEIDER: Elvis. John Roberts is Elvis. She's got a tough act to follow.

BLITZER: Oh, Elvis is John. Just -- I'm wondering and maybe I was missing something. Bill Schneider with the "Play of the Week." He's always got to get Elvis' name in there.

SCHNEIDER: Exactly.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Bill, for that. Up next, it's the stuff of the best spy thrillers. Possible cover ups, clandestine CIA officers, a leak of classified information, except it's a real criminal investigation. After two years of probing, will anyone ever be punished for the CIA leak? Jack Cafferty has your thoughts, he's standing by to join us.

And the president is talking about it and so are the bloggers. The Harriet Miers Supreme Court nomination -- what else can be said? You might be surprised. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Betty Nguyen is joining us now from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories making news. Hi, Betty.

NGUYEN: Hi there, Wolf. Officials from 80 countries are in Washington today to come up with a global plan to fight avian flu. Delegates are in the nation's capital on invitation from the State Department. President Bush held his own meeting today with top brass from pharmaceutical companies to urge them to work on developing vaccines against influenza. There are fears that the avian flu could become the next deadly flu pandemic.

Now, a Rumanian village of about 30 people is under quarantine after three ducks there tested positive for avian flu. They're the first such cases reported in that region. Romania's agriculture minister said the virus detected in the farm-raised ducks came from birds migrating from Russia. The village, located on the Danube Delta, is sealed off and so far, no one there has fallen ill.

In other news, the deaths today of six U.S. Marines punctuate the continuing rise of attacks in Iraq. They were killed in two roadside bombings in Anbar Province. Statistics show there were about 2,500 such attacks in September. Now, that is up from about 1,500 in March -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Betty, thank you very much. We'll check back with you soon, Betty Nguyen reporting for us. Jack Cafferty has been going through your e-mail. He's joining us from New York once again. What are you picking up?

CAFFERTY: Wolf, where is Zain Vergee?

BLITZER: She's got the day off.

CAFFERTY: She misses a lot of work, doesn't she?

BLITZER: No. You took a few days off. I took a few days off. She can take a day off.

CAFFERTY: Yes, but we're older than she is.

BLITZER: Yes, but she's entitled. Long weekend, you know ... CAFFERTY: We need our rest.

BLITZER: ... she's got a long weekend coming up.

CAFFERTY: She does.

BLITZER: Friday is a good day to take off.

CAFFERTY: Why are you defending her?

BLITZER: I like Zain. She's a nice kid.

CAFFERTY: Question this hour is this, Wolf. Will anyone ever go to prison over the outing of the CIA agent Valerie Plame? We got this from Judith, retired foreign service officer. She lives in which Wildomar, California. "If I had revealed the identity of any of the many CIA agents with whom I worked at various U.S. embassies around the world, I'd still be in prison. Why the double standard?"

Jen in Nashville, Tennessee. "Only if someone can figure out how to get the Teflon that appears to coat everyone in the Bush administration."

Kwame writes, "I don't think the prosecutor in this case as the will or the power to prosecute Mr. Rove. This is the president's right-hand man. Why would he allow this happen?"

Ray in Cocoa Beach, Florida: "Karl Rove and Scooter Libby will probably get the Medal of Freedom from the president."

And Reba in St. Simon's Island, Georgia: "No, I don't believe anyone will go to jail over this. We will get a 'whitewash' job because the media has forgotten how to investigate and find the truth. Democracy is in crisis, and all I hear is Tom Cruise and girlfriend are having a baby."

BLITZER: Can I tell you Reba in St. Simon's Island in Georgia, Jack, is not watching THE SITUATION ROOM.

CAFFERTY: I know. We haven't gone near that Tom Cruise thing, have we?

BLITZER: No, Tom Cruise -- we may have mentioned it, but that was 30 seconds.

CAFFERTY: Yes, well, that was probably 28 seconds too much.

BLITZER: Thanks, Jack.

CAFFERTY: You're welcome.

BLITZER: Thank you very much. Still to come, she went from a little known White House counsel to the major focus of much political attention. Harriet Miers shouldering support and a lot of criticism, much of it from the bloggers. We'll tell you what they're saying. And he was one of the president's men. Former FBI director Louis Freeh. He served under Bill Clinton and now has some stinging words about his former boss saying he was not a Clinton fan to put it mildly. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Republicans are bickering over the Harriet Miers' nomination, but Democrats have their own issues dividing them. Let's go straight to our Internet reporters Jacki Schechner and Abbi Tatton. They're here with more -- Abbi.

ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, the conservatives dissent online has been bubbling all week over the Harriet Miers nomination. And it's also been at the nationalreviewonline. And that's what we're going to focus in on today. "National Review" has a number of blogs, and this is the magazine that President Bush was honoring yesterday.

Looking at some of the conservative dissent over there, the "National Review" has the Corner Blog. It has Bench Memos, David Frum's Diary, various people saying various things about this nominee that the president may not want to hear, starting with David Frum, former speech writer for President Bush who was on the situation room earlier this week expressing his views about the nominee. What he says today is what now? He's asking the question about whether this nominee should be withdrawn and he's saying if she's not withdrawn, she should be resisted. So not backing down there.

Bench Memos, is another blog at the "National Review" that focuses on the judiciary. This is where Kathryn Jean Lopez blogs. What she said at the beginning of the week, she said this post was up at "National Review" headquarters, and everyone was saying I want to believe in this nominee, but this particular blogger is having a very hard time doing that. At Bench Memos, she was describing the mood in D.C. amongst conservatives. She said it's anger and frustration.

JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Little dissent on the Democratic side today, at least out in the blogosphere. I wanted to show you this, a new report that came out from the Third Way. This is a Democratic think tank. They are moderate, and it's called "The Politics of Polarization." A lot of the bloggers online are talking about it. They don't agree with it.

Armando at Daily Kos -- which is a big liberal blob, one of the biggest ones out there -- says that the study purports to blame the Democratic losses on the Democratic base. Now, it's a mischaracterization of the Democratic base, according to this report. This is what Armando's saying, that the Democratic base is not after ideological pursuits. Instead they want to fight for the Democratic core principles.

Kevin Drum (ph) at Washington Monthly says it's not the Dems who have become more activist, it's that the Republican Party has gotten more extreme, or at least the activist base of the Republican Party. We go over to MyDD where Scott Shields called the two men who wrote the reports "self-loathing Democrats." What he says is "we need to grow the base." That part of the report is actually true. He says but you have to build the Democratic brand.

It's not about bad-mouthing what the Dems do right now. It "doesn't need to go from bad to acceptable," it needs to go "from good to great." Don't give people talking points to be different than that, really what you need to do is make it look better.

And finally, Geralyn Merritt (ph) over at talkleft.com, another big Democratic blog, says the voters are there, "we just have to give them something worth voting for, and centrism" is not the way to go, Wolf. Basically, you have to just stick to what you believe.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, guys. We'll get back to you soon. It's 5:00 p.m. here in Washington, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where news and information from around the world arrive in on place simultaneously.

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