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The Situation Room
Harriet Miers Nomination; CIA Leak Investigation; Interview with Texas Supreme Court Justice Nathan Hecht; Smurfs and UNICEF Commercial
Aired October 12, 2005 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And you know what that means. It's 4:00 p.m. in Washington. And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, promoting faith in the Supreme Court showdown. The president acknowledges that Harriet Miers' religion is key to his campaign to get her confirmed. Is he giving a wink and a nod to conservative critics?
PHILLIPS: Breaking the Scalia-Thomas mold, President Bush said that he's nominated justices like the two most conservative members of the court, or did he? This hour, the making of a myth.
VELSHI: And closing acts in the CIA leak saga. Reporter Judith Miller goes back before a grand jury. And White House strategist Karl Rove will soon follow. Are indictments in the works?
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
PHILLIPS: And Wolf's off today.
First up this hour, President Bush makes no bones about it. He confirms his aides are playing up Harriet Miers' religious beliefs to try to combat his conservative revolt against her Supreme Court nomination.
VELSHI: Well, Mr. Bush may have been stating the obvious after leading conservative James Dobson talked publicly about his conversations with top presidential adviser Karl Rove.
Let's go to our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux, who's been following this closely for the latest. Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the president, of course, is speaking out about this, as well as James Dobson. Here is what we know.
Two days before the president announced the nomination of Harriet Miers, we know that his top political adviser, Karl Rove, was quietly lobbying James Dobson -- of course, the Christian conservative head of the -- founder of Focus on the Family -- to support his nominee, Harriet Miers.
Now, Dobson created quite a stir last week on this radio program when he had suggested he had some inside information about Miers that led to his support. Dobson is trying to clean up this mess today, as is the White House. He came forward today saying that the conversation he had with Rove, he was assured that Miers was an evangelical Christian, that she's from a very conservative church that is almost universally pro- life, but he insisted today that he did not get reassurances about how she would vote on Supreme Court issues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES DOBSON, FOCUS ON THE FAMILY: We did not discuss Roe v. Wade in any context or any other pending issue that will be considered by the court. I did not ask that question.
You know, to be honest, I would have loved to have known how Harriet Miers views Roe v. Wade. But, even if Karl had known the answer to that, and I'm certain that he didn't, because the president himself said he didn't know, Karl would not have told me that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And today, President Bush is also defending his administration's campaign, this quiet campaign to highlight Harriet Miers' religious beliefs to conservative groups to try to get their support here. President Bush at the same time insisting that he is not using her faith as a litmus test to indicate how she might vote on certain hot-button social issues like abortion, gay marriage, or the role of religion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People are interested to know why I picked Harriet Miers. They want to know Harriet Miers' background. They want to know as much as they possibly can before they form opinions.
And part of Harriet Miers' life is her religion. Part of it has to do with the fact that she was a pioneer woman and a trailblazer in the law in Texas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: I have to tell you today that Democrats are not buying this line at all from the White House. We heard from the ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, Patrick Leahy, releasing a statement saying that "Dr. Dobson earlier seemed confident that he had all the assurances he needed about how she would vote as a justice on issues that are his litmus test."
"Now, more than a week later, he has offered an explanation for his earlier cryptic remarks. The rest of America, including the Senate, deserves to know what he and the White House know. We don't confirm justices of a Supreme Court on a wink and a nod. And a litmus test is no less a litmus test by using whispers and signals."
A controversy that is brewing. The White House, again, fighting back, of course. And it really is a clear indication here of their outreach to these specific groups they need, they feel, to push forward Harriet Miers' nomination and perhaps signals the concern that her nomination is in trouble.
Kyra, Ali?
VELSHI: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House following this increasingly complicated story. Thank you, Suzanne.
A reminder of Harriet Miers' spiritual history. She was born a Roman Catholic, but became a born-again Christian in 1979. When she is in Texas, she attends the Dallas church where she was an active member. Valley View Christian Church is conservative evangelical. Most of the congregation there is opposed to abortion rights.
Now, a little later on, we're going to talk with a member of the church, Miers' longtime friend, Texas Supreme Court Justice Nathan Hecht.
PHILLIPS: Now, some top Bush allies are out today making new pitches for Harriet Miers' confirmation. RNC Chairman Ken Mehlman is taking part in a conference call discussing Miers' nomination with conservative bloggers, a nod, it would seem, to the power of their online criticism.
And Attorney General Alberto Gonzales made the rounds of TV shows this morning, talking about what he called the unique brand of experience that Miers would bring to the high court.
Now, a lot of people have a lot of different opinions about Harriet Miers and her qualifications for the high court.
Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, is following public opinion. Bill, what does the latest polling on Miers show right now?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the latest poll, Kyra, was taken over the weekend by the Pew Research Center through Monday.
Does the public think the Senate should confirm Miers? Yes beats no by 33 to 27 percent. It's a narrow margin. But the largest number, 40 percent, say they're not sure. The public doesn't really know enough about her yet to have a strong opinion.
Most of the criticism of Miers, as we know, have come from the right.
Do conservative Republicans want her confirmed? A majority, 54 percent, say yes. Now, that's not an overwhelming majority, but only 9 percent of conservative Republicans say they oppose Miers, which suggests that the anti-Miers criticisms that we've been hearing in Washington may not yet have gained a lot of traction with the conservative grassroots.
VELSHI: Bill, you know, First Lady Laura Bush mentioned in an interview that she thought that maybe sexism might have been at play in the conservative backlash against Harriet Miers. Are we seeing any of that in the polling?
SCHNEIDER: We're seeing no evidence of sexism in the polls, at least that people are willing to acknowledge in a poll. When the Pew poll asked, how does the fact that Harriet Miers is a woman affect your opinion of her? Twenty-two percent said it made them feel more favorable towards her. A scant 3 percent said less favorable. Seventy- two percent said, look, it doesn't make any difference.
And among conservative Republicans, her presumed critics, about the same. They, too, said, overwhelmingly, it doesn't make any difference.
PHILLIPS: What about cronyism, Bill?
SCHNEIDER: Cronyism, now there we have a problem. The poll asked, what about the fact that Miers was President Bush's personal attorney? How does that affect your opinion? Only 10 percent said it made them feel more favorable towards her. More than three times as many said it made them less favorable. Just over half said it made no difference. That suggests that her personal relationship with President Bush is more of a minus than a plus with the public. And Republicans, too, did not see that as much of a plus.
PHILLIPS: Bill Schneider, thank you.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
VELSHI: Two big stories going on in Washington right now. The other one, the possible perils for the Bush White House around the issue of the CIA leak. Reporter Judith Miller today made a return appearance before the grand jury that's investigating the leak of that CIA operative's name.
PHILLIPS: Let's go to the courthouse and our national correspondent Bob Franken. Bob?
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, the story right now of the grand jury investigation is one of many unhappy returns, as everybody waits to see if this grand jury is going to return some indictments.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): She went to jail for 85 days for refusing to testify. But now, Judith Miller was again before the grand jury, answering questions for the second time in the less than two weeks she's been out.
Miller was back because she discovered notes in her "New York Times" office that detailed conversations with the vice president's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, that occurred earlier than the ones she described in testimony last time. She left with no comment.
JUDITH MILLER, REPORTER, "NEW YORK TIMES": No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment. FRANKEN: Libby's name has come up repeatedly in an investigation into whether those who leaked the identity of undercover CIA operative Valerie Plame in summer 2003 violated the law.
Plame is the wife of Joseph Wilson, who had been harshly critical of Bush administration claims that Iraq was developing a weapons of mass destruction program.
Friday, the president's longtime chief political adviser, now deputy White House chief of staff, Karl Rove, is scheduled to testify. It will be his fourth time appearing before the grand jury.
The White House comment, again, is no comment.
Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has given no hints about possible indictments. The grand jury's term expires on October 28.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: The betting is that the decisions about indicting have not yet been made, the whos, the whats, the whethers, even. But whatever the decisions will be, they're expected soon. And whatever they are, they're going to have legal implications and, of course, profound political implications.
Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Bob Franken, thank you.
VELSHI: You know, a while ago you asked me -- we were holding up this Nano. And you asked me about Nano.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Jacki Schechner and Abbi Tatton reminded me. Sometimes things are so obvious you forget about them. Nanosecond, nanotechnology, small. Extremely small. I had forgotten that.
PHILLIPS: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Time now for the "Cafferty File," your chance to sound off on the big stories.
PHILLIPS: Jack Cafferty, once again live from New York. Jack?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: This is like watching Mr. Wizard in THE SITUATION ROOM...
VELSHI: I want to bring some value to the thing, you know?
CAFFERTY: ... with the Nano things.
PHILLIPS: He's got his little technological devices everywhere. CAFFERTY: I understand. I like what he does with the -- when he gets the jars, and the cups, and stuff out, when he does those, you know, experiments and shows how things go from one place to another.
PHILLIPS: And blows things up.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Yes, I know.
CAFFERTY: Speaking of blowing things up, that grand jury in Washington may be getting ready to do just that. Presumably, they have a couple of weeks now to wind up their business, and busy they are.
And presumably, at the end of all of this, they are going to know where the leak on the CIA agent came from. And if they know, then one can only hope that they will issue the indictments that are appropriate to the knowledge they've gained from their investigation.
And we're looking forward to the indictments, because there's nothing any better than to see these folks in real high places walking around with handcuffs on, being dragged up in front of a judge and charged with all kinds of heinous crimes.
Judith Miller can't make anybody rest too easy. She's back before the grand jury after serving time in jail, saying, you know what? I found some more notes from a conversation I had with Libby in the vice president's office.
Karl Rove's going back for a fourth visit on Friday. This thing has the potential to become as good a show as the Harriet Miers confirmation hearings, but we won't know until the indictments are handed up.
The question for this hour is, based on the information so far that we have -- and it all seems to be coming primarily from either the vice president's office or the president's office -- who is likely to be indicted in the CIA leak case?
CaffertyFile - one word -- @CNN.com, or that other thing we mentioned last hour. What was it? Cafferty-something-something. Anyway, somebody wrote to me and said, one of these is an e-mail address and one of them is a web site. And that that was the difference.
So it's CaffertyFile@CNN.com and then the other -- whatever the other one was.
PHILLIPS: All right. Wait a minute. Which is which, Jack?
CAFFERTY: I don't remember what the other one was. What was the other one?
(LAUGHTER)
Sarah? What was the other one? VELSHI: Oh, there we go. It's on the screen. CNN.com/caffertyfile.
CAFFERTY: Oh, CNN.com/thecaffertyfile. I guess that's the Web site?
VELSHI: Yes, you got your own site, Jack. You can do all sorts of fun stuff with that, pictures, and downloadable things.
CAFFERTY: I can't even find it.
(LAUGHTER)
I couldn't tell you how to locate the Web site.
VELSHI: THE SITUATION ROOM has crack Internet reporters. We can get them on that for you.
CAFFERTY: All right. Well, maybe you can tutor me when you get back up to New York.
VELSHI: Good to see you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: All right.
PHILLIPS: Well, Jack was talking about this. And we're going to talk about it a little bit more, Karl Rove's problems. Of course, the president's chief strategist is red meat for our "Strategy Session." Whatever the outcome of the CIA leak probe, is Rove damaged goods?
VELSHI: And the other big story we're following in Washington, keeping the faith. Will Harriet Miers' religion sway her rulings if she makes it to the Supreme Court? Do her beliefs even matter? We'll talk to one of her closest friends and spiritual confidants.
PHILLIPS: Plus, we'll keep you up-to-date on the aftermath of the Asia earthquake, the death toll, and whether aid is getting through.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: In Pakistan, the desperate search for survivors continues following the massive earthquake that rocked that region.
PHILLIPS: Our Zain Verjee joins us once again from CNN Center in Atlanta with the latest developments on that story. Zain?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hi, Kyra. Hi, Ali.
Four days after the powerful earthquake that rocked Pakistan and India, officials fear that the death toll could reach 40,000. Still, search teams are looking for survivors in the mountains of rubble.
The quake, which was centered in the long-disputed Kashmir region, affected an estimated 3.3 million people. Relief supplies are pouring in. Pakistani officials say resources are stretched to the limit. A handful of people from the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir returned to their homes today to see what's left after the earthquake. Their homes are in the area administered by Pakistan. India ran a special peace bus across the region's dividing line to allow families to go home.
Military helicopters also resumed supply drops to survivors in some of the inaccessible areas of Kashmir controlled by India.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice paid a brief visit to Islamabad in Pakistan today. She promised President Pervez Musharraf the United States would support current and future relief efforts. The U.S. has committed $50 million to immediate earthquake and relief and recovery efforts. Rice said that Pakistan and the U.S. are friends, not just of governments but also as people.
Kyra, Ali?
PHILLIPS: And our Andrea Koppel, of course, is traveling with Condoleezza Rice. We're going to talk to her when he she gets back from her trip.
But, Zain, the dividing line between India and Pakistan. Let's talk a little bit more about that.
VERJEE: Yes, it's known as the Line of Control. It was initially called the cease-fire line. And, essentially, it's a line in Kashmir that demarcates the Indian side on the one hand and the Pakistani side on the other. Both sides say the whole thing is ours, and that's really been the key part of the dispute.
There have been proposals in the past where, you know, some Indian officials have put forward the idea that the Line of Control should essentially become an international boundary. But officially, the Indian position is no way, it's all ours. And Pakistan says no, it's all ours. So that's really been the cause of the dispute.
But the good news in all of this, when it comes to the Line of Control, Kyra, is that a lot of the Indian troops have crossed over the Line of Control saying, you know, we're going to help Pakistanis fix their bunkers, for example. And the Indians have also flown in a plane of aid and relief to Pakistan.
PHILLIPS: Zain Verjee, thank you so much.
VELSHI: We don't need a Line of Control between us or anything?
PHILLIPS: No, we never need -- we need to be -- well, we're out of control. We need to be in control. But we don't need a line to put us...
VELSHI: Exactly.
PHILLIPS: You know what I'm saying?
VELSHI: We just need a producer yelling at us. PHILLIPS: Still ahead, he's flying high in the polls. Not bad for a Republican in an overwhelmingly Democratic city. So how does Michael Bloomberg do it?
VELSHI: Plus, the great misunderstanding about President Bush and what kind of nominee he promised he'd appoint to the Supreme Court.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Here is a good, slow, long look at some of the "Hot Shots" coming in from the Associated Press. Take a good look, because these are pictures that are likely to be in your newspaper tomorrow.
In Pakistan, rescue mission. This 5-year-old girl -- a picture of hope -- she's being held by her uncle after being pulled out of the rubble of her home. She said she fell into the stairwell when the earthquake hit, and she was scared.
In Serbia-Montenegro, a soccer riot. Fans clashed with police during a World Cup qualifying match against Bosnia-Herzegovina.
And in Cambridge, Massachusetts, a silent demonstration. These Harvard law students taped their mouths shut to protest against the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
In Washington, baby checkup. This male panda cub gets a medical exam at the National Zoo. He weighs 12.7 pounds and now has some teeth.
That's today's "Hot Shots," pictures that are worth a thousand words.
PHILLIPS: And it's time to check our "Political Radar." Al Gore seems to be dashing some Democrats' continued hopes that he'll run for president in 2008. During a trip to Sweden today, the 2000 nominee said he has absolutely no plans and no expectations of ever being a candidate again. But the former vice president kept the door open, at least a crack, saying he didn't completely rule out some future interest in politics.
VELSHI: Democrat John Edwards, on the other hand, is keeping his supporters' hopes alive that he'll run for the White House again. The 2004 vice presidential nominee appeared in New York today with Democratic mayoral candidate Fernando Ferrer at a round-table discussion on poverty.
PHILLIPS: Ferrer has an increasingly uphill battle against New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. Two new polls show the Republican's lead over Ferrer has nearly doubled in the last couple of weeks. Bloomberg's ahead by 27 points in a Marist poll and by 28 points in a...
VELSHI: Quinnipiac survey.
PHILLIPS: ... Quinnipiac survey. Thank you.
VELSHI: Both of those polls suggest New York's recent subway security alert drove Bloomberg's support higher. But both surveys were taken mostly before reports that the subway threat might have been a hoax.
PHILLIPS: Now back to the uproar over Harriet Miers' nomination to the Supreme Court.
VELSHI: Some conservatives believe the president broke a promise about the kind of people he'd named to the high court.
But as our White House correspondent Dana Bash reports, it was a promise Mr. Bush never actually made.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just minutes after word of the first Supreme Court vacancy, conservatives rushed to set a standard.
CATHY CLEAVER RUSE, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: The president was elected with the promise that he would appoint people in the mold of Justice Scalia and Justice Thomas.
BASH: A mantra repeated by allies on the airwaves.
ED MEESE, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: The president has committed himself to nominating someone in the mold of Scalia and Thomas.
BASH: Reinforced by grassroots groups trying to pressure the president, reiterated by bloggers.
Just one problem: It turns out the Bush mold of Scalia and Thomas promise may be an urban myth. It goes back to 1999. Then-Governor Bush, asked which justice he respected, said Antonin Scalia. So would his appointments be like Scalia?
BUSH: Well, I don't think you're going to find many people to be actually similar to him. He's an unusual man. He's an intellect.
BASH: Praise, but no promises. The same went for Clarence Thomas.
Al Gore, during a 2000 debate, apparently connected the dots.
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... that he will appoint justices in the mold of Scalia and Clarence Thomas, who are known for being the most vigorous opponents of a woman's right to choose.
BASH: A long-time top Bush aide confirms to CNN Mr. Bush didn't actually publicly pledge a Scalia or a Thomas, but they made no effort to clarify. To conservative activists, it was code. They expected Mr. Bush to pick justices with clear records showing they'd move the court right. BAY BUCHANAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: When you talk about Thomas and Scalia, you know they're going to strictly interpret the Constitution, which tells us, as social conservatives, one thing, which is obviously on the forefront of our minds, is that awful, awful decision of Roe v. Wade.
BASH: Some conservatives were skeptical of John Roberts but decided to trust the president. With Harriet Miers, a widespread feeling of betrayal.
JUDGE ROBERT BORK, FORMER SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: The conservative movement was banking -- they said, at least he's going to choose a judge like Scalia and Thomas. That's what he said he would do. There's no evidence that this is a judge like Scalia or Thomas.
BASH: A campaign pledge the president did make to the base over and over was this...
BUSH: We stand for judges who faithfully interpret the law instead of legislating from the bench.
(APPLAUSE)
BASH: ... a promise he considers kept.
BUSH: Harriet Miers will strictly interpret our Constitution and laws. She will not legislate from the bench.
BASH (on-screen): The White House is now in a Catch-22, trying to overcome Miers' non-existent judicial record, which upsets and angers conservatives, by suggesting she opposes abortion, but still insisting, when it comes to confirmation, her personal views are off- limits.
Dana Bash, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Up next, more on the Supreme battle over Harriet Miers. How is she dealing with tough conservative criticism? We're going to speak to someone very close to the high-court nominee.
VELSHI: Plus, the CIA leak and the White House. How much will the investigation hurt the Bush administration politically? We'll get expert opinion in today's "Strategy Session."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: President Bush likes to say he knows Harriet Miers' heart. But if anyone knows the Supreme Court nominee well, it's Texas Supreme Court justice Nathan Hecht. He's a longtime friend and a fellow member of her church. He joins us now from Austin, Texas.
Justice Hecht, thank you for joining us.
JUSTICE NATHAN HECHT, TEXAS SUPREME COURT: Good afternoon, Ali. VELSHI: You have known Harriet Miers for some time. And in fact, it's reported that you were influential in her joining the church that she belongs to?
HECHT: Years ago. That's true. I've known Harriet 30 years.
VELSHI: Well, one might think it isn't a relevant part of the conversation, but now it's out there. Now people are talking about Harriet Miers' faith and it's become part of the discussion. Tell us a little about what you know about Harriet Miers' faith, first of all.
HECHT: She's very committed to it. She's committed to her church and has been for 25 years -- the whole time she's been there. And I'm kind of like you, Ali. I mean, I think at some point we need to turn to her qualifications, but it's a very important part of her character.
VELSHI: Well, as somebody who thinks that she should get the nod for the Supreme Court, I imagine you'd want at least the conservatives who seem to be opposing Harriet Miers to settle down a bit on this.
Does at least this discussion of her religion help on that front? Does it at least help some conservatives say, all right, well, at least we think she's a woman of faith, that might help?
HECHT: It may. And I think people want to know that about candidates. They wanted to know it about Chief Justice Roberts.
But, two, you know, they want to know the credentials that the candidate, the nominee, brings to the office as well.
VELSHI: Let me talk to you about Jan LaRue. She's the chief counsel for the Concerned Women of America. She says, "The constant bringing up of her faith is inappropriate. No one's giving us any real information about her. We're in an echo chamber."
Sounds to me like regardless of what political stripe someone holds -- you said this a few moments ago -- we need to find out more about Harriet Miers.
Where should this inquiry be going? What do we need to know about Harriet Miers to come to decisions about whether this woman is right for the Supreme Court?
HECHT: Well, I think you need to look at her record, and her record's a mile long.
She's got a solid record of practice here in Texas. She was a great lawyer. She went -- she started at a firm where they would barely hire women, and years later when it was 10 times that size, became its managing partner. She's been a leader in the Bar. Of course, she's worked with the White House for the last several years.
This is really a sterling person. She's a role model down here.
VELSHI: Justice Hecht, let's take a look at a comment that I'm sure you've heard from Senator Arlen Specter. He said that she -- referring to Harriet Miers -- "needs more than murder boards to prepare for hearings. She needs a crash course in constitutional law." You're referring to Harriet Miers' record. There's some complaint that there's not enough of a record on the type of stuff that she'll be dealing with at the Supreme Court.
I don't know. I'm certainly not a judge, I'm not a lawyer. What do you need to know? When you get to the Supreme Court, do you learn everything you need to know if you haven't got a track record?
HECHT: Well, you learn a lot. I mean, there are a lot of different cases that come to the Supreme Court, and many important cases. And many cases that the public is focused on just now are constitutional cases.
But there is a huge part of the Supreme Court's docket that has nothing to do with those constitutional issues, that has to do with business issues, the very kinds of things she dealt with when she was in practice; statutory construction, all sorts of other problems, cases that come to the court that no one can be an expert in, in all of them.
You have -- what you have to bring to the court is hard work, good judgment, wisdom, the ability to, the intellect to grapple with these kinds of issues, and Harriet has all that in spades.
VELSHI: James Dobson of Focus on the Family has been vocal about Harriet Miers. And he said that Karl Rove sent him to you, to talk to you to get some assurances on Harriet Miers and her qualifications and her commitment. What did you tell James Dobson?
HECHT: I actually have not had the privilege of speaking with Dr. Dobson, except very briefly, and it was simply to say that what the president said is true -- that the president's known Harriet for 10 years. I've known her for 30. She will be a conservative judge. She'll be a strict constructionist, just as the president had said. And that's really all I told Dr. Dobson.
VELSHI: Fair to say that most members of your congregation are anti-abortion?
HECHT: I suppose it's fair to say. I mean, we don't ask for a show of hands, but, you know, that's the church's position, and I think people who attend church there would feel most comfortable if they were.
VELSHI: Justice Nathan Hecht, thank you for joining us.
HECHT: You bet. Thanks, Ali.
VELSHI: Nathan Hecht is a justice on the Texas Supreme Court.
Well, coming up, the president pushes Harriet Miers' religion as a topic. What is the strategy behind today's move? We are going to ask two top strategists when we return.
Plus, Karl Rove gets ready to testify again in the CIA leak. What is at stake for him and for the president?
Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: This just in to CNN -- aftershocks rocking the already devastated region overseas. Of course, the earthquake is what we're talking about.
Zain Verjee with more now in Atlanta. What do we know, Zain?
VERJEE: We don't know very much. What we do know and can confirm -- though, we are checking details with our reporters on the ground -- that there has been a strong aftershock that has shaken buildings in Pakistan's capital Islamabad, as well as the Northwest Frontier Province.
No damage has been reported, Kyra, and the strength of this earthquake has not -- is not known. We are checking, as I say, and will bring you more details when we get them.
PHILLIPS: All right. Zain Verjee, thank you so much. We'll continue to follow up with you and also Becky Anderson, who is in the region of Islamabad.
Well, it's time now for our "Strategy Session".
VELSHI: And here for that is CNN political analyst and Democratic strategist Paul Begala, and Terry Jeffrey, the editor of the national conservative weekly "Human Events". Guys, thank you for being with us.
PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you, Ali.
VELSHI: Paul, what do Democrats do with this strategy? What do you make of this strategy?
I'm talking about Harriet Miers right now -- the president coming out and talking about Harriet Miers' religion, addressing the elephant in the room.
BEGALA: Well, first off, if the president has a strategy, he's keeping it a secret. Yesterday, he had the first lady go out and praise Harriet Miers and say people who are criticizing her were sexist. Well, Mrs. Bush is a lovely woman and quite a delight. She's pro-choice on abortion. She wants abortion to be legal, she doesn't want Roe v. Wade overturned. Good for her.
That's not the people the president is trying to reach, though. He's trying to reach these ultra-conservative pro-lifers. That's why Nathan Hecht was just on our air. I suspect the White House is putting him out.
So I can't figure it out.
The problem they have is that the scant record we have of Ms. Miers is mostly one of sucking up to George W. Bush. I'm glad that she loves the baby Jesus -- so do I -- but she loves George W. Bush. She said he's the most brilliant man she's ever met? We need to introduce her to Dan Quayle.
She said he was the best governor Texas ever had? What about Sam Houston, who was the first governor of my state?
I mean, if she becomes a Supreme Court nominee, it will be the supreme triumph of sucking up, apple polishing and brown-nosing. I mean, that's how she got where she is.
PHILLIPS: Wow. Not a good segue, because I want to talk about James Dobson here for a moment. Let's listen to what he had to say. And, Terry, I'm going to get you to respond.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JAMES DOBSON, FOCUS ON THE FAMILY: What did Karl Rove say to me that I knew on Monday that I couldn't reveal? Well, it's what we all know now, that Harriet Miers is an evangelical Christian, that she is from a very conservative church which is universally almost pro-life, and that she had taken on the American Bar Association on the issue of abortion and fought for a policy that would not be supportive of abortion, that she had been a member of the Texas Right To Life.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Terry.
TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, HUMANEVENTSONLINE.COM: Well, I respect Mr. Dobson greatly. He's a great man. I think there's a number of mistakes in his reasoning there. He's concluding from what Karl Rove told him that this was going to be an excellent Supreme Court justice.
First of all, Jimmy Carter was an evangelical Christian. I don't think Mr. Dobson would be happy if President Bush named Jimmy Carter to the Supreme Court. Last year in the presidential campaign, John Kerry said that he believed life began at conception, which reportedly Harriet Miers said. I don't think Mr. Dobson would like it if President Bush named John Kerry to the United States Supreme Court.
I think in order for people to make an informed judgment about whether or not she'll be an excellent justice, she has to be able to produce a record that shows she's done some serious constitutional reasoning and taken stands on constitutional issues, where she was under political pressure to take the opposite stand. And we haven't seen that record at all.
You know, when John Roberts was first nominated, he was a stealth candidate. But then we saw many, many documents come out of his time in the Reagan Justice Department, in the Reagan White House, that at least told conservatives philosophically he was with them. It didn't indicate how he was going to vote in future Supreme Court cases, but we haven't seen anything like that kind of record coming out on Harriet Miers.
VELSHI: Would you guess at this point that that record doesn't exist in terms of the kind of indications of what you do on the Supreme Court? She may have a record of a lot of things that she's done, but it doesn't seem to be enough to satisfy, at least for conservative opponents, that there's something out there that'll help her ...
JEFFREY: Well, you have to doubt it, because when you ask Justice Nathan Hecht, who is an excellent conservative on the Texas Supreme Court, what her record was, he went back to her experience on the bar, her practice as a corporate lawyer down in Texas.
That doesn't show expertise with constitutional law. And you would think if she hasn't at this point, the White House would start rolling it out to calm conservatives, and to prove that she really does have what it takes to be an excellent Supreme Court justice.
PHILLIPS: Let's talk Karl Rove. Paul, you call it the Bush's home alone syndrome -- classic quote of the day.
BEGALA: Yes. The president, well, he is sort of home alone -- has relied on a cadre of very talented and very loyal aides. And it's something I always liked about him. I like those aides. I'm from Texas, I know most of them. I've known most of them for many years.
Karen Hughes, his communications aide, now over at the State Department. Al Gonzales, his lawyer, is now over at the Justice Department. Harriet Miers now being a pinata for the left and the right, trying to get on the Supreme Court. And now Karl Rove, the architect, as the president calls him, revolving door through the grand jury room.
His closest and best advisers, are all completely distracted. And I think that's one of the reasons his White House is so adrift right now. They're going to have to find somebody who can actually run the place. Maybe it's going to be Chief of Staff Andy Card, who Karl has been undermining for the last five years.
PHILLIPS: So while he's trying to handle Hurricane Katrina and the Miers situation, do you think this is a bigger issue and he can't handle what needs to be handled business-wise because of that, because of the ...
BEGALA: The distraction, when you're going in front a grand jury, believe me, it is an enormous distraction. I worked in the White House when friends were going in front of the grand jury. I never did, thank goodness. But even that, even my friends being called up there is enormously distracting.
I mean, you have a federal prosecutor going through your life and your records, that's an enormous distraction. And you know, Karl's not able to do his real job right now because he's trying to save his hide in the grand jury.
VELSHI: This is a good discussion. We're going to have to cut it off a little bit because we want to get back to this breaking news that we've got going on. Paul Begala, a Democratic strategist and Terry Jeffrey, editor of Human Events. Thanks for joining us, guys. BEGALA: Thanks.
PHILLIPS: Being told we've got Becky Anderson now live in Islamabad.
VELSHI: Let's go to Islamabad where Becky Anderson is there, reporting on these aftershocks that are being felt in that city. Becky?
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks very much, indeed, Ali. Yes, just underlining the risks that people face here at present. Just about three or four minutes ago, we felt quite a significant tremor here.
We're standing on a building just in front of the site behind where they're still effecting a search and rescue. And to my left-hand side, just over my left-hand shoulder here, there's an awful lot of family, friends and relatives who are just keeping a vigil, hoping to find that their friends and family are still alive in this rubble. They came flooding out of this building, some screams, people very, very frightened.
The very sense that there could be a significant shock here, or, indeed, another earthquake really, really upsetting people.
And we just talked to Satinder Bindra who is up in the north. They certainly felt it there, and as I say, while it didn't actually cause any destruction here we're concerned about the fact if we felt it here down in Islamabad, 95, 100 kilometers north, underneath where the epicenter of the original earthquake on Saturday was, it could have been a lot worse. We're not hearing anything as of yet. We'll come back to you, if do.
Ali.
PHILLIPS: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
VELSHI: Go ahead, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, both of us here, a couple questions for you, Becky. But just about half -- within the past half hour, you were talking about right there behind you, the rescue workers sort of slowly pushing the rubble back, listening very closely to see if they could hear the voices of any survivors. How is this affecting what's going on right now behind you?
ANDERSON: It's interesting, because what we thought we heard was breaking glass. And at that point we thought this tremor may be slightly worse than it was. The sound I heard effectively, was the bulldozer stopping and pulling back extremely quickly from the debris that they are working on.
Evidently they felt the shock, too, and they pulled back, believing that they were going to be engulfed by the debris that they're trying to clear at present. So it's extremely difficult. And let's remember, that this isn't the first shock that's being felt. Upwards of some 200 or 300 shocks have been felt since Saturday, some of a magnitude as large as 6.2.
Now, this certainly wasn't as big as that down here in Islamabad. Maybe worse up north, but as I say, it's extremely difficult for these guys working here. They may not have very much more time, speaking to the search and rescue guys from Britain earlier on.
They're effectively beginning to wind up this operation here, still hoping that people will be brought out alive. But effectively, they're moving very, very quickly here. So it's very dangerous, if you feel any sense of shock in the area.
Kyra.
VELSHI: Becky Anderson in Islamabad. We will keep you posted on these developments, aftershocks being felt in that area that has been so devastated already by these earthquakes.
Well, coming up, an unlikely subject of controversy -- the Smurfs.
PHILLIPS: It's a high-profile target of controversy. And Karl Rove, he may want to tune in when Jack Cafferty reads your e-mail about the CIA leak. That's ahead.
VELSHI: And later, flooding in New Hampshire. You'll see for yourself how bad it is. We'll find out if there's relief in sight in that part of the country. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: It took me a long time to figure out that this is actually a serious story, because these are among the world's most beloved cartoon characters. But a new TV commercial is definitely out of character for The Smurfs.
PHILLIPS: And we do want to warn our viewers that young children might find this a bit disturbing.
Our Zain Verjee live at the CNN Center Atlanta with a look at the controversy. Zain?
VERJEE: A controversy, Kyra, over Smurfs. They are the unlikely stars of a new commercial for the Belgian arm of UNICEF, the United Nations Children's Fund.
A spokesperson says the group wanted to make an impact with the new ad campaign, and it seems to be working.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): They've been entertaining children around the world for almost 50 years with songs and adventures, and despite occasional adversity, the Smurfs always managed to pull off a happy ending, but not this time.
These images are part of a TV commercial airing in Belgium, where the Smurfs were created in 1958. It starts out innocently enough with Smurf music and images of their peaceful little village. But seconds later, bombs rain down from the sky. The village is destroyed, and Smurf bodies lie everywhere.
The final image, a battered baby Smurf wailing, followed by the message in Flemish, "Don't let war destroy the children's world."
A spokesman is quoted as saying, "We wanted to have a lasting effect of our campaign, because we felt that in comparison to previous campaigns, the public is not easily motivated to do things for humanitarian causes and certainly not when it involves Africa or children in war."
Apparently it's working. Calls are said to be pouring into UNICEF Belgium and traffic on their Web site is up significantly.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: The ad is clearly not designed for children. In fact, Belgian TV is only airing it after 9:00 at night when the Smurfs' biggest fans are unlikely to see it.
Kyra, Ali, using Smurfs here to shock people into action and then, you know, a lot of people are phoning in and giving money.
VELSHI: Well, it certainly got our attention. Hope it works. Zain, thanks.
PHILLIPS: I bet it got Jack Cafferty's attention, too.
What do you think?
VELSHI: I think so. Let's check it out.
Jack Cafferty is back here with the "Cafferty File." He's in New York. Hey, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, guys. "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller testified today for a second time before the grand jury in the CIA leak case. On Friday, Karl Rove is due back for a fourth appearance. Nobody knows who, if anyone, the grand jury will indict. But so far, the investigation seems focused on information that came either from the president's or vice president's offices.
Here's the question this hour. Who's likely to be indicted in the CIA leak case?
Joseph writes from Naples, Florida: "If justice be served, Vice President Cheney would be on top of the list, but Rove and Libby will probably fall on their swords for their insulated bosses."
Mike in Columbia, South Carolina: "It appears Karl Rove and Scooter Libby each have paperwork coming their way, maybe even Vice President Dick Cheney if he orchestrated it and anyone gave him up. But then the president will pardon all of them and they'll get rich on the book deals." Bruce in Rochester Hills, Michigan: "The likely indictments, if Fitzgerald has big ones, will be Rove, Libby, Cheney, Bush, Ari Fleischer, Scott McClellan. This is going to be the political story of the century. Who will be left?"
And Gail in California writes: "Why, Jack, I thought you knew. It's the file clerk in the third level basement of the Library of Congress. Everybody knows that."
(LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: Gail seems like the kind of person who might have found your Web site.
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: Perhaps she did, which puts her a step ahead of me -- I can't find it.
(LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: Good to see you, Jack.
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Jack.
VELSHI: Jack Cafferty in New York.
Still to come, a Republican conference call. The GOP reaches out to bloggers angry over the Supreme Court nomination of Harriet Miers. We're going to bring you that situation online.
PHILLIPS: And a story of survival boosts morale in the earthquake disaster zone. After four days, a little girl is rescued from the rubble.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: The nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court is one of the hottest topics on the blogs.
VELSHI: And now the GOP is reaching out to bloggers for support.
Our Internet reporters Jacki Schechner and Abbi Tatton join us now with the details of that. Hey, guys.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Hi. Yes. We've told you a lot here about the conservative reaction in the blogosphere to this nomination. It really has been intense -- lots of vocal opposition to the nominee, Harriet Miers.
Well, today, the Republican National Committee is trying to reach out to those same bloggers, and with a conference call. Ken Mehlman is the chairman. He joined together with Patrick Ruffini, who's the new e-campaign director, also a popular conservative blogger at patrickruffini.com.
Now, this didn't come a moment too soon for the conservative bloggers, who were complaining just last week that they needed this kind of outreach.
Professor Stephen Bainbridge is a UCLA professor and a blogger. He was saying last week that the Republican Party seems to view conservative bloggers as an irrelevance and a minor nuisance, unlike the Democratic Party who, he said, seemed to embrace the liberal blogosphere more.
One of the bloggers there, one of the conservative bloggers who listened in to this conference call is already giving his reaction to this meeting this afternoon. RedState.org, though, calling it a disappointment, saying that they were just repeating talking points. It's going to need a lot more than this.
Although, Eric at RedState did say that it's great that they have started this series of conference calls.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: So Professor Bainbridge is only partially correct?
And we have seen some disconnect between the Democratic Party establishment and the liberal blogosphere, but it's something that they're working on.
What we are seeing a lot of is a lot of individual government officials, Democratic officials, reaching out to liberal bloggers.
For example, right after Justice O'Connor announced her retirement, Senator Kennedy organized a conference call with liberal bloggers. It was something that was documented by Jeralyn Merritt at TalkLeft.com. They were talking about strategy in the upcoming nomination.
So we take this debate a little bit farther. Why is it the Democrats do seem to pay more attention to the blogosphere? Well, Kevin Drum at Washington Monthly has a couple of hypotheses. Here's what he puts forth.
First, the success of Howard Dean. He did such a great job online in the last election cycle that people are looking for that as an example.
Number two, the success of Daily Kos -- this is the giant liberal blog. There's a lot of politicians that have diaries over there. It generates a lot of comments and a huge amount of community.
Third, the natural liberal devotion to egalitarianism.
And finally, we thought this was interesting, the fact that the Dems are out of power and the Republicans aren't. So, frankly, just to put it simply, guys, the Dems have to work a lot harder.
Send it back to you. VELSHI: All right. Jacki and Abbi, thanks very much.
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