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The Situation Room
Baltimore Tunnel Threat; CIA Leak Investigation; Harriet Miers and Abortion
Aired October 18, 2005 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Ali. Thank you very much.
It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
Happening now, security tested after a threat to a major East Coast traffic hub. The tunnels under Baltimore Harbor are open again. Will the tie-ups and the fear linger, though?
Also this hour, Harriet Miers on the record on abortion. What do documents now before the Senate tell us about the Supreme Court nominee's views and how she might rule on Roe v. Wade?
And the focus also right now on Dick Cheney and the CIA leak investigation. Will the vice president be a factor in the special prosecutor's case? That could come to a head any day now.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Up first this hour, the terror threat that closed one of two tunnels under Baltimore Harbor and partially shut down the other. Sources now telling CNN two individuals are being questioned in the investigation. Traffic was jammed for nearly two hours while authorities stopped and searched vehicles, even checking underneath trucks with mirrors. Officials would not say what they were looking for, but whatever it was, they say they didn't find anything and the tunnels are now reopened.
The FBI says the move was triggered by what it calls somewhat specific but uncorroborated threats to a Baltimore area tunnel. Two U.S. officials telling CNN the threat included a reference to suspected Egyptian terrorists carrying out an alleged plot involving explosives labeled cocoa.
Let's bring in our CNN security analyst, Richard Falkenrath, also a former White House deputy Homeland Security adviser.
I hear the words Egyptian suspects and you know what goes through my mind right away -- like I'm sure millions of other Americans, Richard -- Mohammed Atta, who was an Egyptian; Ayman al-Zawahiri, the number two Al Qaeda operative, an Egyptian. What does it say to you if they are in fact looking for an Egyptian or Egyptians?
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it's clearly one additional piece of evidence about this possible threat. There have been terrorists who have come from Egypt. There is a very active terrorist movement in Egypt. And there have been many al Qaeda recruits from Egypt, as you referenced.
So the two possibilities are either there are actually Egyptian- origin terrorists here in the U.S. plotting, or rather more likely, someone is giving us this extra piece of specific information to cause us to react even more strongly.
BLITZER: Is this smart to go ahead, based on uncorroborated but specific intelligence information from one source, apparently, to go ahead and shut down a huge tunnel like this, an interstate that brings traffic up and down the East Coast of the United States?
FALKENRATH: Well, at the level of the police chief, he really has no choice. When this information arrives at his desk and says a threat to the tunnels in Baltimore, he has to do something. He cannot be inactive. At the level of the federal government, I'm not so sure it's the right thing to do, to leave him with that difficult decision to make. Based on what we know from this information, there's a lot of reasons to doubt this threat, even though it has certain specifics that get our attention.
BLITZER: In the old days, when the information would come in, it would be very hazy, very vague, analysts trying to connect the dots, if you will. And as a result, they didn't really act. Now, the information is specific and some say, you know what? You never get intelligence that good. And as a result, you should discount it, as well. You can't win either way, I suspect.
FALKENRATH: That's right. And one of the things we're worried about is that the terrorists are learning if they give us some very specific information, we will react visibly in a tactical way, as we did in New York two weeks ago, and as we did here in Baltimore. Even if it turns out to be what we call in the business a spoof, incorrect information that they're giving us just to get us to react.
And that's a real worry. If it's the case that every chief of police or every mayor who gets a specific piece of information on their desk one morning has to react visibly, we will be spoofed for the rest of our time in the war on terror.
BLITZER: Richard Falkenrath, thanks very much. And we're going to stay on top of the story -- much more coming up in this hour and the next here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
But let's turn to politics right now. There's new ammunition today in the battle over Harriet Miers' nomination to the Supreme Court. At issue, abortion, a top point of contention for critics on both sides of the political spectrum.
Our congressional correspondent Ed Henry is monitoring this situation. He's joining us now live from Capitol Hill. Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, that criticism of Harriet Miers is mounting so much that Senate Judiciary Chairman Arlen Specter, in an exclusive interview with CNN today, warned Miers she has to start fighting back more aggressively, and the way to do that is to get her confirmation hearing started as soon as possible.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): Senator Arlen Specter is growing frustrated that Harriet Miers' nomination is getting bogged down.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), CHAIRMAN, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I'm becoming more and more concerned that Harriet Miers is being tried in the media. And there is one place to have this determined and that's in the Judiciary Committee hearing, and I intend to get that on the road just as soon as I can.
HENRY: The latest blowup over abortion. The White House gave Specter's committee documents, including a questionnaire Miers filled out in 1989 while running for Dallas City Council in which she supported a constitutional ban on abortion.
Some White House allies are circulating the document to convince restless Republicans she will support their agenda. That mission became more critical after Specter said Miers privately told him a key Supreme Court decision, the underpinning for legalized abortion, was rightly decided. Miers claims Specter misunderstood her, though the senator stands behind his version and refused a White House request for a correction.
SPECTER: It seemed to me that the best course is to accept her view and to defer getting into it any more deeply until the hearing.
HENRY: Even as Miers' allies try to shore up conservative support, they angered Democrats like Dianne Feinstein, who charged the questionnaire raises -- quote -- "very serious concerns about whether Miers will be biased on the abortion issue."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: And Democrat Chuck Schumer said that all of this back and forth, senators in both parties are more confused than ever about exactly where Harriet Miers stands on abortion.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Are we getting any specific dates when these confirmation hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Ed, will actually start?
HENRY: Chairman Specter told me he is hoping to get this started on Monday, November 7, so that he can get the ball rolling. There are others, though, saying that it could be pushed back by one week as they still sort through these thousands of pages of documents that have been flying around as they try to figure out her record. So it'll either be November 7 or November 14. They're hoping to have an announcement by the end of tonight.
BLITZER: All right, thanks very much. Ed Henry reporting for us, and we'll bring that news once we get it. You can check out information about Harriet Miers yourself on the Web. Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner is here. She's checking the situation online. Jacki, what are you picking up?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, the Senate Judiciary Committee's questionnaire to Harriet Miers is now available online. It's actually online several places, but we found it here at the University of Pittsburgh Law School. You can see her responses. It's a PDF file, it looks like this, 57 pages. You can cull through it yourself.
Bloggers are already starting to do so. Two things they're starting to pick up early. One, the note where she says earlier this year, she let her D.C. Bar dues lapse. She did pay them once she got the letter saying so, but people are taking note of that. And the second point is her response to question Number 28 -- please discuss your views of judicial activism. They are culling through that right now. And as soon as we get any substantial consensus, we will let you know.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jacki. Thank you very much.
Moving on to other news here in Washington, potentially very, very specific and significant news. The special prosecutor in the CIA leak investigation is getting ready, we believe, to show his cards. Patrick Fitzgerald could announce the outcome of his grand jury probe as soon as tomorrow, and increasingly, speculation centering on Vice President Dick Cheney and his staff.
Our White House correspondent Dana Bash is standing by in the north lawn. What's going on, Dana?
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, you know, we say this all the time when we talk about this particular story, but it bears repeating that we really know very little about where the special prosecutor is actually going in this investigation.
But what we do tend to talk about publicly is the rare nuggets of information that we get from inside the grand jury. Over the summer, last week even, the focus was on Karl Rove. This week, it seems to be on the vice president's office.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): Vice President Cheney in the Oval Office smiles knowing the camera is pointed at him for a reason. Headlines suggesting federal investigators are focused on Mr. Cheney's office, even him personally, in their search for who leaked the name of a covert CIA operative.
The "New York Times'" Judith Miller reported the special prosecutor not only asked about discussions with Cheney chief of staff Scooter Libby, but she said, Mr. Fitzgerald asked whether Mr. Cheney had known what his chief aide was doing and saying. Miller said her answer was no.
Sources familiar with the grand jury testimony of current and former Bush and Cheney aides tell CNN several were questioned about the vice president's role in rebutting criticism from former ambassador Joe Wilson, which he says ended up outing his wife's covert identity. But experts urge caution.
KENDALL COFFEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: The fact that somebody is the subject of questions doesn't mean that they're a target of an investigation. All it means for sure is that the prosecutor is doing his job.
BASH: What Patrick Fitzgerald appears to be probing is motive. Before the war, the vice president asked for more information on a report Saddam Hussein tried to buy uranium from Africa. Without Cheney's knowledge, the CIA responded by dispatching Joe Wilson to find out. He came back saying the report was false. And in this column mentioning the vice president, Wilson accused the administration of ignoring his findings. The president still used the Africa connection in his case for war.
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know Joe Wilson. I've never met Joe Wilson.
BASH: On NBC in 2003, Cheney denied knowledge of Wilson's report, or even reading it. Central to the investigation is whether the administration effort to distance Cheney from Wilson, instead steering reporters to the CIA, resulted in the disclosure of his wife's covert identity.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, the vice president was not under oath. But remember, Wolf, in June of 2004, 16 months ago, he was interviewed by the special prosecutors. But officials here tell us he has not been since.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Dana Bash at the White House. Dana, thank you very much.
Jack Cafferty is watching this story as well. He watches a lot of stories. He's joining us from New York with some thoughts. Jack?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: One little additional piece of information that may or may not be significant, Wolf, on this suggestion that Fitzgerald's ready to announce his findings is that according to some late piece of copy that we read in my office, he's going to announce what he has in Washington as opposed to Chicago, which is where his office is. That may or may not be significant but it's probably worth mentioning.
The thing that's interesting is how high up this investigation by the special prosecutor may go. As Dana suggested, the name Dick Cheney is coming more and more into the conversation. Scooter Libby, his chief of staff, has been grilled at length by the grand jury, as have other Cheney aides. One former Cheney aide did tell the "Washington Post" today that it's implausible, that was his word, that his boss Cheney was involved in the leak of Plame's name because he rarely dealt with press strategy.
Nevertheless, the question is an intriguing one, I think, this hour. It's this: What would it mean for President Bush if the vice president is somehow involved in the CIA leak? You can email us at CaffertyFile@CNN.com.
It's fun to watch these investigations unfold. And I'm not suggesting that the outcome would be the same as the one in Watergate, but remember, Wolf, the Watergate investigation, how it started with just the news of a break-in at the Democratic headquarters in the Watergate Hotel. And over a very long period of time, one step at a time, they gradually kept climbing the ladder until, lo and behold, they got to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. It's kind of funny how these things work.
BLITZER: What starts off relatively modest has a tendency, in Washington, to expand. This investigation has been going on for nearly two years.
CAFFERTY: Yes, and Fitzgerald is famous for holding his -- somebody said if he held his cards any closer to his vest, they'd be in his shorts.
BLITZER: Yes, well, he's a tough guy. We'll see what he does. Thanks very much, Jack.
Coming up, a conservative pays a price for opposing the president. How wide is the split on the right? And what does it mean for the Bush White House? We'll take a closer look.
Also ahead, the morning-after pill and the "Culture Wars". Did the federal government block the pill's approval for political reasons?
And later, a century old dam and a state of emergency in Massachusetts. Will a devastating wall of water be unleashed?
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Our Zain Verjee is joining us now from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at other stories making news. Zain?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, just hours from now, Saddam Hussein is scheduled to stand trial in Iraq. But the first day of the trial may be the last one for a while. Saddam Hussein's defense lawyer says he's going to ask for a three-month adjournment. Court officials are expected to grant the request. Saddam faces trial in connection with a massacre in a place called Dujail, north of Baghdad, in 1982.
Ten days after a devastating earthquake in Pakistan, the U.N. World Food Program says more than half a million survivors still have received no aid. More than 50,000 people are believed to have died in the quake. Officials are saying unless more aid arrives soon, the toll is likely to rise. The Pakistani government's appealing for more tents and at least 2 million more blankets.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is in Beijing for talks with Chinese officials. As he flew to China, Rumsfeld accused the Chinese of understating their defense spending. The Chinese deny that. Also on the agenda, North Korea's nuclear ambitions and tensions over Taiwan. This is Rumsfeld's first trip to China as Defense secretary.
And the mayor of Taunton, Massachusetts, says that the next few hours will be crucial for his town. We heard from Mayor Nunes last hour on THE SITUATION ROOM. And these are some pictures that you're seeing there live, coming to us from Taunton. A wooden dam built in 1832 is feeling the strain from some of the recent heavy rains. Now, if it gives way, it could flood downtown Taunton with up to six feet of water. The mayor says the dam's not deteriorated much over the past few hours, not much at least.
Wolf?
BLITZER: Getting back, Zain, to the earthquake in Pakistan, I know you've been looking into a really heart-wrenching question, the children who've been orphaned as a result of this earthquake. What are you picking up?
VERJEE: Thousands of children, Wolf -- it's difficult to put a precise number on it -- have been either orphaned or separated from their families. And what Pakistani officials are expressing concern about is these kids are going to be preyed upon by child traffickers and used, ultimately, as laborers or as sex slaves.
Pakistan's prime minister says that all the orphans of the quake are going to be looked after by the Pakistani government. They said as soon as the kids come in, they just take the pictures and they do not give the children to anyone that doesn't have the right identification. But the real problem there is there's a potential for people coming in to just pose as the parents of these kids. And, in fact, they would be child traffickers.
The other thing to note is Pakistan's culture is quite clan based. And what would happen in a situation like this is people would take in orphans or children from extended families, they'd bring them in. And the whole idea of adoption isn't really supported or promoted.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Zain. Thanks very much. Zain Verjee reporting for us.
Still ahead, the growing conservative backlash against the White House. From Harriet Miers to government spending, many on the right are up in arms right now. Our Jeff Greenfield's standing by to weigh in. That's coming up.
Also, all eyes in this town -- that would be Washington, D.C. -- on Patrick Fitzgerald. Will the CIA leak prosecutor issue indictments in his investigation? And if he does, when will they come? The story in today's "Strategy Session". That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. The mayor of New Orleans has been in Washington today, testifying on Capitol Hill. And Mayor Ray Nagin is joining us now live from Washington. Mayor, welcome to Washington. Is this the first time you've left town since Katrina?
RAY NAGIN (D), MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: No, I've left town, but it's my first visit to Washington. I've had numerous conversations with various officials, but the first time coming here.
BLITZER: All right. So the thrust of your visit is what? You're trying to get additional assistance for New Orleans, I take it?
NAGIN: Yes. We -- I basically testified earlier in front of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, made a brief presentation, answered lots of questions about what's going on in New Orleans. And then I just left Secretary Jackson, the HUD secretary's office, where we talked about how do we get certain things done, how do we expedite, how do we transition from the whole FEMA scheme of temporary housing into more permanent needs that New Orleans has.
BLITZER: What about rebuilding the city? There's huge question marks if it's really worth it, as long as you don't rebuild those levees and those flood walls to withstand a Category 5 hurricane. Where do you stand on rebuilding the infrastructure of the protective wall, if you will, for New Orleans that would justify pouring in hundreds of billions of dollars potentially into your city?
NAGIN: Well, Wolf, it's my understanding that, you know, the Corps of Engineers already has authorization to build our levees up to heights of 17 feet, which is going to get us above a Category 3 storm. It's also my understanding that they're working with the Dutch and the Germans to come up with a plan to build us quickly up to a Category 5 status. Once we do that, then everyone would feel very comfortable about rebuilding in New Orleans as we continue to repopulate.
BLITZER: But rebuilding the floodwalls and the levees, that could take years. I've heard some estimates, 10, 15 years under a good scenario. Is that fair?
NAGIN: Well, Wolf, basically the Corps is telling me that in order to build them up to 17 feet, which is going to be like four feet higher than we had before Katrina hit, they will have completed that by June 1st of next year in 2006. Now, to go to Category 3 standards, that's probably going to take a little longer. But by June of next year, we will be above a three standard.
BLITZER: Republican Congressman Bill Shuster of Pennsylvania, the chairman of the House Transportation Subcommittee on Economic Development -- he said, during the course of the hearings -- he questioned whether some sections of New Orleans should be rebuilt at all given the nature of the floods that potentially could develop. What do you say to him?
NAGIN: Well, I think we have to really do a full assessment of New Orleans and determine exactly where the Corps of Engineers is going to rebuild the levees to, to what levels. And some of the areas that flooded significantly, what do we need to do to protect them? I think New Orleans will be fully rebuilt. It's a matter of timing.
BLITZER: How much money are we talking about in the short term, do you think?
NAGIN: As far as the levee systems are concerned, the numbers I've been hearing, around 600 million to maybe a billion dollars to quickly rebuild the levee systems to the levels that we're discussing.
BLITZER: And are you talking about eventually rebuilding the Ninth Ward, which was so devastated as a result of Katrina. Or, as some are suggesting, that area simply not feasible to be rebuilt?
NAGIN: I think it will be rebuilt, but it's probably going to be rebuilt in a different configuration. Whether you have homes that have garages on the bottom and people live up above, whether you have apartments that the first five or six floors are for parking and everyone lives above there.
But keep in mind, when we talk about the Lower Ninth Ward, we're also talking about St. Bernard, Plaquemines Parish, where you have huge infrastructure, you have one of the largest oil refineries down there that's about a mile long. So we need to keep that going for the nation's best interest. So we will be rebuilding in some form or fashion.
BLITZER: One final question. The Reverend Louis Farrakhan was at a big rally here in Washington over the weekend, and he says he wants to sue the federal government for criminal neglect in dealing with New Orleans, saying that the federal government really didn't care about the black people in New Orleans. What do you say about that?
NAGIN: Well, you know, I have mixed emotions about that. I looked at the response as it relates to the state and federal government, and I compared that to other communities. And you must admit, and I think everybody in America and around the world admits that the response was very slow.
Now, whether it was race, class, or what have you, I'll let other people debate that. I am more focused on, what do we need to do to rebuild New Orleans, to make it culturally diverse, to make it a city that was similar to what we had but better?
BLITZER: But do you associate yourself with Farrakhan and his criminal neglect lawsuit?
NAGIN: That's not my thinking, but I applaud Minister Farrakhan for raising the issue and making sure that people do not take this lightly and that we do all the investigations on what happened -- we look at the levee systems to see how they were breach, the whole nine yards, and then let history judge what really happened. BLITZER: One final question. The police brutality that's been alleged -- and you've seen the video -- what's your take on what happened?
NAGIN: I think it was appalling. It's something that I'm not going to condone, nor accept in New Orleans. Our new police chief, who's Acting Police Chief Warren Riley, took very swift and decisive action, basically suspending those officers and then issuing a summons for them on potentially criminal charges. We're not going to tolerate that. We want everybody to come to New Orleans, as well as the residents, to understand that the police are there to serve.
BLITZER: We're all out of time. But do you have any evidence there were mercy killings at the worst of the moments in the aftermath of Katrina at hospitals in New Orleans?
NAGIN: You know, other than what I've read in the newspaper and seen on various reports such as, you know, your agency, I do not have any direct knowledge of that. There were lots of rumors flying during the event and after the event. So we'll see what the facts come out. And whoever did anything that's criminal in nature, I'm sure they will be prosecuted.
BLITZER: Mayor Nagin, thanks very much for joining us. Welcome to Washington, and good luck to you and everyone in New Orleans and the hurricane ravaged area. Appreciate your joining us in THE SITUATION ROOM.
NAGIN: We'll see you for beignets and cafe au lait in New Orleans soon.
BLITZER: I'll be there at Cafe Dumont (ph). Thanks very much, Mayor, for joining us.
NAGIN: Thank you.
BLITZER: Turning back to politics, if President Bush was hoping the conservative revolt against him couldn't get much worse or angrier, he may want to think again. There are new questions and new fuel today for the fire.
Our senior analyst Jeff Greenfield is joining us. And he's got that story. Jeff?
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, the ouster of a conservative thinker from a conservative think tank doesn't exactly tear out the front page news. But when one of the architects of Ronald Reagan's economic policy is forced out of a post because he wrote a book excoriating this President Bush, that's worth a closer look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD (voice-over): The conservative is Bruce Bartlett, long-time champion of supply-side economics. His sin? Authoring a forthcoming book, "Impostor: How George Bush Bankrupted America and Betrayed the Reagan Legacy." But that's only the latest sign of a spreading disenchantment with Mr. Bush on the right.
The spark that set off the prairie fire, of course, was the president's nomination of White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court. Prominent conservative columnists George Will, Charles Krauthammer, Peggy Noonan among others, denounced the pick. "The National Review," whose founding 50 years ago launched the modern conservative movement, called for the nomination to be withdrawn. And conservative Republican senators were under-whelmed.
Why the storm? In part, it's because economic and social conservatives united last year behind the president's narrow reelection. And as much as anything, the social conservatives wanted a clear-cut champion of judicial conservatism to move the court right once Sandra Day O'Connor quit.
But the discontent has deeper roots. For years, conservatives have been on low simmer because of President Bush's spending policies: billions more for an expanded Department of Education -- Reagan wanted to abolish it; a prescription drug program in 2003 whose cost is as much as $700 billion, the biggest new entitlement since Medicare; a huge $280 billion highway bill passed this year, packed with billions of dollars in so-called pork, including the infamous bridge to nowhere in Alaska which would connect a small town to a barely populated island.
And even on the war in Iraq, conservatives are split. Some champion the ambitious effort to spread democracy; some argue that's overreaching, a break with more cautious conservative principles. Others support the mission but deplore its execution. And why does this matter politically? Because over the years, voters have become much more ideological.
Back in 1976, Democrat Jimmy Carter got 29 percent of voters who called themselves conservatives. By 2004, Kerry got only 15 percent of conservative voters. Self-described liberals have moved sharply to the Democrats, but because there are a lot more conservatives in America, this movement has hugely benefited Republicans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD: Now, so far this discontent has not spread beyond the more engaged political community. CNN's most recent poll shows Bush getting an 84 percent approval rating from Republicans, 62 from self- described conservatives. But the worry for the Republicans is that this discontent on the right may be the canary in the coal mine, an early warning system of unhappiness which, if it keeps conservatives home next year, Wolf, might endanger their hold on the Congress.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Jeff Greenfield, thank you very much. Jeff Greenfield reporting from New York.
Coming up, more on the bruising battle over Harriet Miers, right now abortion smack in the middle of the fight. We'll get some expert opinion in today's "Strategy Session." That's coming up next. Plus, the clock's ticking on that CIA leak investigation. We'll look at the potential fallout for the White House.
Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Joining us now in THE SITUATION ROOM, radio talk show host and author of the new book "How the Republicans Stole Christmas," Bill Press, and Republican Strategist Greg Mueller. Our "Strategy Session" begins.
Harry Reid, the Democratic leader in the Senate, is quoted as saying this: "Anything dealing with intelligence, no matter how big or how small, Cheney is involved in. This is his portfolio and he guards it very well," referring to the leak investigation. The leak investigation seems to be coming to a head in the next few days, we're told. What do you sense?
BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: It looks like it and the question in Washington paraphrasing Howard Baker, I think, today is what did the vice president know and when did he know it? I don't think it's surprising, Wolf, that the focus is on Cheney now because, number one, I think it's implausible that Libby acts without Cheney knowing what he's doing.
BLITZER: Scooter Libby is his chief of staff.
PRESS: Scooter Libby is chief of staff. And, secondly, we know from the Woodward book and Judy Miller's testimony that the vice president was really on this case. He personally went out to the CIA. He asked them to look into this idea that Saddam was buying nuclear material from Niger. That ended up in Wilson going down there, then the president's speech and Wilson's op-ed piece and then perhaps this deliberate leak from the White House to discredit Wilson. So Cheney might have been the one who set the whole thing off.
BLITZER: You know, when I read Judy Miller's first person account of what she testified, what she said before the grand jury in Sunday's "New York Times," what really struck me and I'm sure many of our viewers out there was the animosity that existed between the CIA and the vice president's office. And that came through in the conversations that Scooter Libby had with Judith Miller. And that would seem to explain some of the bitterness that developed.
GREG MUELLER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, I think that's right, Wolf. I think in a sense, look, I think that there's some in the White House that believe the CIA was acting politically, that Valerie Plame had a husband, they had a left wing agenda to undermine the war.
And I think the vice president was very involved in that. This was part of his role. The idea of the vice president talking with the CIA to determine whether or not we're going to go to war on what evidence is something not unnatural. What is unnatural ...
BLITZER: But the CIA supported all the intelligence going that created, that justified the evidence that said there were stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction.
MUELLER: Right. Well, the CIA has been back and forth on both sides of the aisle over time here. And I think one of the things that Plame tried to do, I think very politically, tried to undermine by sending her husband. They had a preconceived notion over there. And actually, if you read what he came back with, he actually -- according to Pat Roberts, the Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman -- actually validated more what Cheney was saying.
But, Wolf, the point is the idea that Vice President Cheney is involved in media strategy, Bill knows. That's not even going to make it on his radio show.
PRESS: No, no, no. Look. First of all, forget blaming Valerie Plame or Joe Wilson anymore. We've moved way beyond that. We're talking about serious possible indictments of Karl Rove and Scooter Libby and maybe something toward the vice president of the United States.
Wolf, it was unusual for the vice president to go several times personally to CIA headquarters. And what it appears to be is that this was part -- this didn't stand alone. This was part of the effort directed from the White House to manipulate the intelligence and to force the CIA to come up with the intelligence to support the war. And it's coming back to haunt them.
MUELLER: I don't know if there's any evidence of that, and if Bill's right, that would be wrong. But I think it's the role of the vice president. In this war, before you're going to declare war and go to war, to have all the information possible. He should be meeting at the CIA.
BLITZER: And all those reports that came out, on the weapons of mass destruction, whether the congressional reports or the other independent reports, they all said the same thing. They couldn't find any such evidence that they were deliberately going to -- that Cheney or anybody else in the executive branch was influencing career professionals.
PRESS: But, clearly, there's also evidence that the CIA was saying we're not sure they've got those weapons of mass destruction. We're not sure they're reconstituting nuclear weapons. And Cheney kept pushing them, saying come back with more evidence. We need more evidence. They had already decided to go to war. They were looking to make the case.
MUELLER: But the Senate Intelligence Committee chairman says that Wilson's report, when you read it over, its dotted I's and crossed T's, he actually validates Cheney's point. So I think we really have to the whole ...
PRESS: Republican Pat Roberts has reason to say that.
MUELLER: He's the Intelligence Committee Chair.
BLITZER: Let's move on and talk about the split among your fellow conservatives when it comes to Harriet Miers and her nomination. David Keene of the American Conservative Union, a man you know very well, quoted in "The Hill," the newspaper on Capitol Hill. "From now on, this administration will find it difficult to muster support on the right without explaining why it should be forthcoming. The days of the blank check have ended because no thinking conservative really wants to be part of a team that requires marching in lock step without question or thought."
Very strong words from David Keene.
MUELLER: Very strong words, Wolf, and he's not the only one.
There's no question, every president goes through this battle with their base, especially two-term presidents. What's going to matter now is where does the president go from here. He's got issues.
Harriet Miers has kind of caught in the crossfire. She's, as Jeff Greenfield reported, kind of the jump-off point in many ways. They're upset about spending issues. The president's starting to work on that. Mike Pence is working in the House.
We've got to get back to conservative issues. That's what wins elections. And I don't think we're going to see much competition with the Democrats when we get to issues, because they just don't seem to have an agenda; they want to whine and complain.
PRESS: I'm not really qualified to speak to the conservative philosophy, but the people that I've talked to, I think it's too late to repair the damage.
Jeff Greenfield was right. It started with the big spending. You can't get that back. Then the big deficits -- you can't get that back. And as Bruce Bartlett said in his column today, the Harriet Miers nomination was the straw that broke the camel's back. I think not all of them but a good number of leading conservatives have just lost faith and trust in this president.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: We've got to leave it there unfortunately, but we'll continue this conversation, guys. Thanks very much.
When we come back, Congress comes up with an idea to help pay for Hurricane Katrina -- an idea you will probably like. That story is coming up in our "Political Radar."
Plus, she's retiring after more than two decades on the U.S. Supreme Court. So what will Sandra Day O'Connor do next? We'll tell you when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The "Culture Wars" tops our "Political Radar" this Tuesday.
A former Food and Drug Administration official levels a serious allegation about the agency's refusal to approve over-the-counter sales of a morning-after contraception pill. Susan Wood says the decision came from above, suggesting the FDA was not acting independently on scientific information, but based on political directives. Religious conservatives oppose the pill, arguing it would promote promiscuity, particularly in young people. Wood resigned from the FDA over the decision on the morning-after pill known as Plan B.
On Capitol Hill, senators have overwhelmingly voted to reject a $3,100 annual cost of living increase in their paychecks. Lawmakers acknowledge it's a symbolic move meant to show they're willing to save the taxpayers' money given the huge expense of rebuilding after Hurricane Katrina. The measure's fate in the House of Representatives is uncertain.
Bill Clinton is making a rare appearance in a political ad since his days as president. The spot promotes Democrat Jon Corzine's campaign for New Jersey governor, calling him the most qualified candidate for governor he's ever seen. Recent polls suggest Corzine's race against Republican Doug Forrester is the closest it's ever been.
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton was on the receiving end of a fund-raising letter from, of all people, her Republican opponent Jeanine Pirro. In an emotionally embarrassing gaffe, the "New York Times" reports the appeal addressed to Mrs. Clinton said -- and I'm quoting now -- "In this difficult campaign, I need people like you who I can trust."
And she hasn't been able to retire just yet, but Justice Sandra Day O'Connor has a new job of sorts. Today she was named grand marshal of the 117th Tournament of Roses Parade. O'Connor says she can't think of a more exciting way to begin the next chapter of her life. And we wish her only the very, very best.
Our Zain Verjee standing by in the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories making news. We wish you only the very best, Zain, as well.
VERJEE: Thanks, Wolf.
Call it Hurricane Wilma now -- the tropical storm intensified today. Now, it's not really clear where the storm is headed, but it may hit southern Florida on Saturday. Forecasters think that Wilma will spare New Orleans and Mississippi, but it's already hit parts of Central America with 10 inches of rain. Wilma is the year's 12th hurricane, trying to set a record -- or tying -- excuse me -- a record set in 1969.
A shower of welcome this morning for the first private plane in more than four years to land at Washington's Reagan National Airport. General aviation was banned from Reagan National after the September 11 attacks. The planes were considered a threat to government buildings and to landmarks. The flights are still subject to stringent restrictions.
The largest single lottery prize in history could be won tomorrow. Now, the jackpot in the Powerball lottery has reached $340 million. But the odds against winning are even higher: 146,107,962 to 1. Twenty seven states, the U.S. Virgin Islands and Washington, D.C. take part in Powerball.
And, Jack, I'm just wondering if you won that, what would you do with that money?
CAFFERTY: Well, I'm not sure. I don't play the lottery, so I won't win it.
But the thing that always astounds me is people who say, well, I'm not going to give up my job, I'm still going to work. I'd be out of here so fast...
(LAUGHTER)
VERJEE: They're lying.
CAFFERTY: Yes. I mean, I would be gone yesterday from here.
VERJEE: I would be miserable then, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Well, I'd take you with me, Zain.
VERJEE: I have to promote you now, Jack.
BLITZER: Up next in THE SITUATION ROOM, our question this hour: What would it mean for President Bush if the vice president is involved in the CIA leak?
Jack Cafferty will join us next with your comments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're standing by for a news conference. The governor of Maryland, Robert Ehrlich, expected shortly to be making a statement on what's being described as a terror threat to the Baltimore Harbor, as one of the tunnels underneath the harbor was shut down earlier today. Another one was partially shut down.
We're going to hear what the governor of Maryland has to say about all of this. We'll bring that to you once it starts.
In the meantime, let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty has been reading your e-mail. He's standing by with us once again. Hi, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Wolf, hi.
The fact that the special prosecutor in the CIA leak case has talked to a number of Vice President Dick Cheney's aides, from Scooter Libby on down, begs the question of how high up the investigation could go.
One former Cheney aide told the "Washington Post" today it's implausible that his boss, the vice president, was involved in the leak case because he rarely dealt with press strategy.
The question this hour, though, is what would it mean for President Bush if the vice president's involved in the CIA leak?
Rugen in Oakland, California: "Business as usual. I'm sure nearly every presidential administration in U.S. history has used lies and misdirection to execute policy. It's just that Bush's incompetence lies in his inability to keep those mechanics out of the public eye."
Tom in Alma, West Virginia: "The real problem for the president comes if he or V.P. Cheney were involved in discussions about Wilson or his wife. This would hurt him with his base, not to mention conspiracy charges. Neither testified under oath, but the court of American opinion does not easily forgive a direct lie."
Tracy in Washington writes: "It would mean that President Bush would get out his pardon pen in a hurry. I hope the American people wouldn't tolerate that tactic when the center of the case is a security breach during a time of war, but I wouldn't be surprised if he tried it."
Matt in Amherst, New Hampshire: "It would be meaningless. Half the country has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that nothing matters."
And Trevor in Canton, Ohio: "I'm sure that if V.P. Cheney was involved in the CIA leak it would mean a promotion of Harriet Miers to the nomination for Vice President."
Poor old Harriet. She gets beat around here every day for something.
BLITZER: And she's got hearings coming up in a few weeks.
Jack, thanks very much.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: What are the bloggers saying about the leak investigation and whether the vice president's office is in the special prosecutor's sights?
Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner takes us "Inside the Blogs". She's joining us live. Jacki?
SCHECHNER: Well, Wolf, are indictments inevitable? Nobody knows; everybody's speculating. And everybody's trying to find a way to help them figure it out.
One site that we found today, tradesports.com -- this is interesting -- this is an online futures trading Web site. Why do we care about a site like this? Well, besides the fact that they've been incredibly accurate -- I'll tell you in just a second -- they very much follow the news trends.
You can see the line here on Scooter Libby in terms of futures trading. The idea is: What is the probability that Scooter Libby and Karl Rove will be indicted by the end of the year? You got Scooter Libby right now at 60 and Karl Rove at 46. This Web site is interesting because they have predicted accurately 33 of the last 34 Senate races. They didn't get the Michael Jackson verdict correct, but they did predict the last pope.
And when Howard Dean made his infamous scream in Iowa, within five minutes, his trading futures plummeted, which basically predicted the future, or lack thereof, of his Democratic nomination.
But, as for the bloggers, really, they're paring it down to the bare bones facts right now. These are liberal bloggers honing in, Steve Clemens of the Washington Note -- he's a long time policy practitioner in Washington.
And essentially, he says, what do we know? Scooter Libby discussed a CIA agent with members of the press. We know that as a fact -- Karl Rove doing the same thing; the same thing coming from hilzoy at Obsidian Wings: basically, Scooter Libby, Karl Rove, willing to out a CIA agent for purely political reasons.
Why does this matter? A poignant post over at Fire Dog Lake: Take a look at the CIA memorial. Essentially, every star on that memorial is a fallen CIA officer. And, Wolf, how dare anyone say this case doesn't matter.
We'll send it back to you.
BLITZER: All right. Thanks very much, Jacki. We'll get back to you, as well.
Still ahead, something that may give Hillary Rodham Clinton supporters hope that she could be the first woman president in the United States. But do politics and primetime TV really mix? We'll have the controversy over a new hit show, "Commander in Chief."
And later, we'll set the scene for a courtroom drama in Iraq, the trial of Saddam Hussein. We'll examine the outcome of war crimes charges throughout history.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Many Americans look forward to Tuesday nights to get a fictional taste of life in the White House with a woman in charge. And some are eager to connect the dots between the fictional commander in chief and a certain real world contender.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE, "COMMANDER in CHIEF")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: The United States.
GEENA DAVIS, ACTRESS: ... that I will faithfully execute the office of president of the United States.
BLITZER (voice over): The votes, or rather, viewers have been tallied. And America's first woman president is a winner.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Female president. Can't you smell the history?
DAVIS: General, if you would please stay.
BLITZER: "Commander in Chief" is the only new TV series to break into the ratings top 10. And new numbers from Nielsen show it's the number one program among women.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I really must insist that you strongly consider...
DAVIS: You're not in a position to insist how I take my coffee.
BLITZER: Although she's supposed to be an Independent, President Mackenzie Allen's popularity may be giving hope to Democrats eager to see another Clinton in the White House or the jitters to Republicans who fear the show is a not-so-veiled Hillary-for-president promotion.
And now, it turns out the political drama has a real-life connection to Senator Clinton. A writer on the show, Steve Cohen, once worked as a communications aide for Mrs. Clinton. And series consultant, Capricia Marshall was a social secretary in the Clinton White House.
It's not the first time political handlers have gone Hollywood. The granddaddy of presidential TV dramas, "West Wing," debuted with an impressive cast of consultants who once worked for actual politicians, most notably former Clinton Press Secretary Dee Dee Myers.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR, "THE WEST WING": We did not lose Texas because of the hat joke.
BLITZER: "The West Wing" went on the air with an unabashedly Democratic president shortly before the Democrats lost the real West Wing to George W. Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A reminder that prime time TV isn't necessarily a good indicator of where American politics may be heading.
(on camera) A good reminder indeed.
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