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The Situation Room
CIA Leak Investigation; Bush Approval Down Further; Hurricane Wilma Aftermath; Congress Marks 2000 US Military Deaths in Iraq; Rosa Parks Passes Away
Aired October 25, 2005 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
Happening now, the drip, drip, drip of the CIA leak investigation due to wrap up any day now. A new report on a conversation supposedly between the vice president and his chief of staff raising more questions about Dick Cheney's role.
Also this hour, the president and the leak. Can Mr. Bush draw attention away from his political problems? We'll examine White House strategy and a brand new poll that's come out here on CNN that may add to the anxiety over at the White House.
And a profile in courage. Civil rights pioneer Rosa Parks has died, but her legacy will live on for generations.
I'm Wolf Blitzer, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
There are only so many ways the Bush White House can say no comment with the CIA leak investigation coming to a boil. The big unanswered question today centers on Vice President Dick Cheney's link to the leak.
The "New York Times" reports Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby first learned about CIA officer Valerie Plame from the vice president. Their conversation reportedly took place weeks before Plame was outed as a covert officer. And the "Times" reports notes from that conversation suggest discrepancies with Libby's grand jury testimony.
Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux in joining us now on what the White House is saying about all of this. Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, there is definitely a sense of tension but also resolve here at the White House. One White House insider telling me that the president is feeling at this point in, whatever the outcome is going to be, let's just get it on, let's deal with it. At this moment, there seems to be a sense people are waiting and they just want this thing to unfold and to happen.
Of course, the big question today is that "New York times" report, the fact that the chief of staff of the vice president saying that he did in fact, get his information about Valerie Plame, the CIA operative, from his boss, Cheney himself, who got it from the former CIA director, George Tenet.
The question here, of course, is according those notes, he got it from his boss. But according to sources who know his testimony before the federal grand jury, he says he got that information through reporters. Which is it, of course? And that is what the special prosecutor is looking at, whether or not he has grounds for perjury or misleading the investigation. That is a big question. That will unfold.
Secondly, the vice president's role, as well. While the vice president's office is not commenting, a close source with the vice president's office saying it would not be unusual or illegal for these two individuals to talk about Valerie Plame, her role in her husband's trip to Africa, that in fact, there is no evidence that shows there was any kind of plan to out her identity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The vice president, like the president, is a straightforward, plain-spoken person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And, of course, what they're talking about specifically is a report that Vice President Cheney gave to NBC News simply saying that he didn't know about Joe Wilson. He didn't know who he was or who sent him on this Africa trip. So the timeline, Wolf, very important. We expect we'll be getting answers very shortly.
BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux reporting for us. Thank you, Suzanne.
Reports about the CIA leak investigation suggest an intricate web of contacts between administration officials and journalists. According to a variety of reputable sources, the vice president discussed CIA operative Valerie Plame with his chief of staff, Scooter Libby, and with CIA Director George Tenet. Libby discussed Plame with Bush adviser Karl Rove and with journalists Matt Cooper and Judith Miller. Rove talked about Plame with Cooper and with syndicated columnist and CNN political analyst Bob Novak. Then, these links to the leak are based on reports.
We hope to learn more about who talked to whom when the special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald finally reveals his findings. That could come potentially as early as tomorrow.
One might argue that a past vote by Dick Cheney is catching up with him to a certain degree, that vote involving the CIA leak case playing out right now. Way back in 1982, then-Congressman Dick Cheney voted in favor of a bill making it a felony to publicly expose the identity of a covert intelligence agent under various circumstances. Whether that law was broken is a central question the special prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, is now trying to answer it.
Most Americans say they don't think top administration officials did anything illegal in the CIA leak case, but our new poll shows 39 percent do think something illegal went on. Another 39 percent say top officials acted unethically, 10 percent say they did nothing wrong.
Just over half of those surveyed rate the ethical standards of the Bush administration as excellent or good. That's down sharply from 74 percent way back in 2002. The percentage of American who's say the Bush administration's ethical standards are not good or poor has more than doubled in the past three years.
Something else for the Bush administration to contend with today, the U.S. death toll in Iraq now has reached 2,000. Within the past hour, the Senate held a moment of silence to mark that grim milestone. And the anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan and her supporters are holding a protest outside the White House. President Bush meantime is warning Americans that the casualty count in Iraq could rise even higher.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Each loss of life is heartbreaking. And the best way to honor the sacrifice of our fallen troops is to complete the mission and lay the foundation of peace by spreading freedom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Our new poll shows Americans are divided on whether it was a mistake to send U.S. troops to Iraq, but opposition actually has fallen 10 points since September. This new poll was taken before the death toll hit 2,000 and after the Iraqi vote on the new constitution. It's official today, that referendum in Iraq passed.
Iraq figures prominently in the Democrats' political strategy, especially as they prepare for the possibility of indictments in the CIA leak probe.
Let's check in with our congressional correspondent Ed Henry. He picks up the story here. What's going on, Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, that moment of silence on the Senate floor marking the 2,000 U.S. deaths in Iraq, as you mentioned, a solemn occasion, and also perhaps an attempt by Republicans to blunt these increasing political attacks from Democrats who are trying to tie that milestone to the CIA leak case and the potential, potential indictments of Karl Rove, Scooter Libby and others.
Democratic leaders charging once again today that the CIA leak case is really all about the administration trying to cover up a failed justification for the war in Iraq. They also say these potential indictments add to what they claim is a culture of Republican corruption.
Listen to this one-two punch from Nancy Pelosi and Senator Patrick Leahy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: I've talked about is the culture of corruption and cronyism. And it is raging in Washington, D.C., on the part of the Republicans.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D-VT), JUDICAIRY COMMITTEE: And far from making us safer from terrorists, in fact, it has turned Iraq into a haven and recruiting ground for terrorists and deflected our attention and resources away from the fight against terrorism.
If anything, it has emboldened our enemies as it has become increasingly apparent that the most powerful army in the world cannot stop a determined insurgency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: But Republican Senator John McCain, not always a friend of this administration, giving some political cover to the president today, telling me that he believes that the sacrifice of these 2,000 U.S. men and women should not be politicized. Republican Senator John Cornyn going a step further, saying he thinks these Democratic attacks are actually giving aid and comfort to the insurgents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I know what they're selling, but I don't see a lot of people buying right now. Obviously people -- they're trying to sell a political line, including risking, undermining the public resolve supporting our men and women who are in the battlefield as I speak, and to me, that's not responsible. I think people need to be very careful about what they say and the impact it has on encouraging our enemies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Senator Cornyn adding that it's easy for the Democrats to throw stones when they don't have an alternative plan in Iraq of their own. But Democratic Congressman Ike Skelton today unveiling a plan whereas he sees if in fact for every three Iraqi brigades, security force brigades that are deemed to be acceptable, each time they get three of those, one U.S. brigade should come home.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Ed Henry on Capitol Hill. Thank you very much.
Let's check some other major flashpoints here in Washington. New signs of opposition today to Harriet Miers' nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court. Our new poll shows Americans are divided on whether she should be confirmed, 43 percent of those questioned say she should not be confirmed, that's up seven points in two weeks.
A coalition of conservative groups has launched a Web site, WithdrawMiers.org, as part of their efforts to get Miers' nomination pulled. Miers herself was back on Capitol Hill today, courting lawmakers less than two weeks before her confirmation hearings are due to begin.
Jack Cafferty has the week off, so we'll have to do without his question this hour. There's much more, though, coming up though ahead.
The president's political troubles seem to keep on growing. Up next, will his party pay a price in 2006?
Also ahead, the White House is bracing for possible indictments in that CIA leak probe. And dealing with a new report about the vice president's reported link to the leak. Plenty to chew on in our "Strategy Session". That's coming up.
And we'll also get a live update from Fort Lauderdale on the damage from Hurricane Wilma, and whether help is on the way.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. President Bush could probably use a little upbeat news right now as he faces one political headache after another. Our new poll just out this hour shows the president's approval rating has gone up slightly to 42 percent from an all-time low of 39 percent a week ago.
But the positive news pretty much ends right there. The more than half -- more than half of those surveyed say they would vote against Mr. Bush and for the Democratic candidate if the president were up for reelection this year.
Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider has been poring over these numbers, all the other numbers. He's joining us now live. Bill?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, want to know what a difference a year makes? Look at President Bush one year ago and now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): October 25, 2004, a week before President Bush's reelection. The president was on the campaign trail.
BUSH: Our economic policies have put us back on the road to growth.
SCHNEIDER: October 25, 2005, Democrats have a 12-point edge on dealing with the economy. And what with investigations of White House leaks, Republican lobbyists, and GOP congressional leaders, Democrats are seen as better for dealing with corruption.
Taxes are a core Republican issue.
BUSH: I'm committed to low taxes and spending discipline.
SCHNEIDER: So it may come as a shock to see the Democrats have an eight-point lead when it comes to dealing with taxes.
The war in Iraq was initially a triumph for President Bush.
BUSH: We ended the regime of Saddam Hussein, which sponsored terror.
SCHNEIDER: Now, criticism of the war has grown, and Americans prefer Democrats deal with the issue. Before Democrats celebrate, the poll shows that most Americans disapprove of the way both parties in Congress are handling their job. The Republicans are in charge, however, and people believe they've messed things up -- all except one thing.
BUSH: I am determined to win the war on terror.
SCHNEIDER: Republicans still have the edge on fighting terrorism, although the margin is not as big as it used to be. One year after President Bush's reelection, disillusionment has set in.
By 55 to 39 percent, voters say they are more likely to vote for a candidate for Congress who opposes President Bush than one who supports him. That's a bigger margin than the one back in November 1994, when voters said they would be more likely to vote for candidates who opposed President Clinton. And they did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Yes, a year is a long time in politics. That's also the good news for Republicans. The congressional election is not for another year.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Bill Schneider, thank you very much. Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst.
Still ahead, high anxiety here in Washington over what this man -- this man, there he is -- Patrick Fitzgerald will do. Will the CIA leak prosecutor indict top White House staffers? We'll get some expert opinion. That's coming up next in today's "Strategy Session".
Plus, millions without power in the Sunshine State after a powerful punch from Hurricane Wilma. We'll have a live report from south Florida. That's coming up.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There are so many unanswered questions in the CIA leak probe, but here's what we know. A once-secret CIA officer, Valerie Plame, is now a household name. Who caused that and why? Many hope to find out very, very soon.
Joining us now, two CNN political analysts. Bay Buchanan is president of American Cause. Donna Brazile is a Democratic strategist. Thanks very much for joining us.
Bay, let me start with you. This "New York Times" story today, a new twist in Dick Cheney's supposed role in all of this. What do you make of it? BAY BUCHANAN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN CAUSE: Well, I don't think it's surprising. Dick Cheney was asking information from the CIA. He wanted to know what was going on. It was Ambassador Wilson who suggested it was the White House that had ordered him to go, and he was asking questions. So he found out it was the wife of the ambassador that actually was behind sending him. And he passed that information on.
All of that is completely legal, not the least bit surprising, and I don't think we can make anything of it from that.
BLITZER: A small but important point. Ambassador Wilson said that the vice president's office asked the CIA for more information about the enriched uranium supposedly going from Niger to Iraq, but he never said the vice president asked him to go. It was the CIA that later asked Joe Wilson to go.
What should be the strategy? Let's talk a little bit about that. If there were indictments tomorrow, what do you think the White House should do about that?
DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think the first thing the White House should do is to shake up things in the White House, to really clean house one year before the midterm election. The president's agenda is now on the back burner. The American people think he's out of touch with their basic needs. So the first order of business is to clean house, and to come clean and tell the American people what truly happened.
BLITZER: What do you think?
BUCHANAN: Well, I think Donna's taking it one step too far. If there's an indictment -- and you've got to understand, we do not know there's going to be any indictments. If there are, there's going to be serious need of Prozac in this town. People are going to be so upset at the media and the Democrats.
There's no question that we know nothing about whether there's going to be indictments or not. If there were indictments, I think the president should do something very, very strong. I think he should make it clear to the American people that he told the White House -- told the prosecutor he was going to have the White House cooperate fully. They did. He supports this effort of the prosecutor. He understands the seriousness of the charges, and those individuals understand the seriousness, and they've asked to spend time...
BLITZER: In other words, they shouldn't do what Tom DeLay is doing against the prosecutor Ronnie Earle in Texas, trying to smear him as a partisan?
BUCHANAN: Absolutely not, because in this case, he's not a partisan. He has done a job. He's a very professional man, and he's respected. And I think what the White House has to do is cut the story away from the White House and say, those individuals, they've done great -- they've been loyal, they've done great work for me. However, they have asked to take a leave so they can defend themselves properly. I have every expectation that they will be exonerated fully. But in the meantime, we've got business to do here. They're removed. And not let anyone in the White House talk about this further.
BRAZILE: But I also think the congressional Republicans at some point need to hold an investigation, a real honest investigation, into what happened. They've abdicated their responsibility over the last two years, and it's time that they step up to the plate to find out exactly what happened in the run-up to war. Because this raises a lot of questions about...
BLITZER: You're not talking about the leak investigation, you're talking about the whole U.S. war.
BRAZILE: Absolutely, both, because this is a central tenet of this whole apparatus of what took place in the White House. They had a working group on Iraq. And when someone went after them on their basis for going to war, they went after those individuals. So I think the Congress should hold an investigation.
BLITZER: The new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll out just now. Bush administration officials' role in the CIA leak, 39 percent of the Americans who responded believe it was illegal, 39 percent believe it was unethical. Only 10 percent say it was not wrong.
In another poll, ethical standards of administration officials -- comparing this administration and Clinton back in '94 after the early Travelgate, FBI Filegate, and all those early scandals that marred the first term of the Clinton administration -- now 51 percent say it's excellent. The numbers, 51 percent say the Bush administration excellent, 48 percent not so good. Clinton's numbers were 57 excellent or good, 41 percent not good or poor. He's not living up to the Clinton level, at least not now.
BUCHANAN: But, you know, Wolf, it's to be expected. On television now, you have Rove's name as chief of staff of the White House with indictment together in the same sentence, oh, about 50, 60 times a day on all the stations, time and again. This has been going on for weeks.
The best thing that's going to happen for the White House is that this investigation comes to a close and that whatever action's taken is done, and the White House can move on and separate themselves from it. This is what they need, and I believe those numbers will come up because the president is not even -- there's nothing that suggests that the president was involved in any of this.
BRAZILE: This is corruption fatigue. We saw this buildup prior to the 1994 midterm elections where the American people just got tired of hearing about scandal after scandal after scandal. What's going to happen after Mr. Fitzgerald hands down this week is that we still have Tom DeLay going before the judge, and we have Mr. Frist in trouble.
There are all kinds of corruption scandals that are taking place in Washington, D.C. That's why this is not a good year for the GOP. They're running out of luck, and I think Democrats are going to be in a good position to take advantage of it.
BLITZER: Go ahead, Bay. BUCHANAN: The good news is what Bill Schneider said. It's amazing what a difference a year can make. We have 12 months before we have an election, a lot of time to turn things around. We don't know who's going to be the leader of the Republican Party in four months from now, and that's what's going to matter.
BLITZER: But what I hear you saying, Bay, and this is important, and correct me if I'm wrong, is you're saying that you don't see what Patrick Fitzgerald doing potentially as criminalizing politics as usual here in Washington?
BUCHANAN: Mistakes could have been made, I don't know. And what he has done, he's done his job. And I don't think Republicans should try to make him some partisan attack dog going after the good old boys at the White House. I think his investigation was legitimate, I think the president should recognize it as legitimate. He has cooperated in it, and I think now he should recognize the seriousness of it.
BRAZILE: But leaking is as old as the Republic. Everybody knows about leaking. But the problem is this was a national security matter. And that's why Mr. Fitzgerald should get to the bottom of it this week.
BUCHANAN: That's what he has done, and we've all supported that he should get to the bottom of it. Now, the White House has to say, OK, now your job is to handle whatever problems he has found. And they've got to go in and handle the affairs of the country.
BRAZILE: And clean house.
BLITZER: We'll see what happens this week. Thanks very much, guys, for joining us.
Up next, Florida residents struggling to bounce back from Hurricane Wilma. We'll have a live update on the destruction and recovery.
And we'll also have the latest on where the storm is causing misery right now.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Get this. About one in three residents in the state of Florida without power today in the wake of Hurricane Wilma. The insurance industry estimates the damage in South Florida could be anywhere from $6 to $10 billion.
CNN's Sophia Choi is joining us now live from Fort Lauderdale with the latest on what's going and there. It's pretty awful, Sophia.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNNHN ANCHOR: Yes, Wolf, let me show you what Wilma did to the education building here in Broward county. The winds were so strong, it basically sheered off much of the building. Now, the offices are just basically hanging open. And because debris is still falling, officers are keeping people away from this area. And they're directing traffic now with the lights still out. And Wolf, this is just one of many areas hit hard by Wilma.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHOI (voice-over): As the cleanup begins, the devastation sinks in for people like Karen Hegedorn, who says Wilma caught them off guard.
KAREN HEGEDOM, HURRICANE WILMA VICTIM: I think many of us were left unprepared. Should have spent a little more time bottling up the water, filling up your bathtubs. We have no power, no water.
CHOI: And it may be weeks before she and others get it back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think once water starts flowing, this county will be up and ready to get itself cleaned up.
CHOI: And there's plenty to clean. This is the scene to the south in Sunny Isles Beach, the marina left in shambles with the building now a twisted wreck, and dozens of boats inside crushed.
Near Miami, at Opa Locka Airport, the winds were so strong, they even caused two parked jets to collide and left several small planes belly up.
On Florida's west coast, massive flooding in some areas. It's all a huge mess that will take a lot of time to clean up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are at a time where Floridians have been victimized by a storm, they certainly don't need to be victimized again by either looting or price gouging.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHOI: And Wolf, I just checked and 98 percent of Broward County still has no power. Many areas including this one still have no water, and because of that, the county has set up several distribution centers so people can at least get the emergency supplies they need right now.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Are there any estimate how long it's going to be before power is restored?
CHOI: You know, I hear everything from four days in some areas to several weeks, up to four weeks in other areas. So, who knows? But with 98 percent of the county without power, you know it's going to take some time.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, poor people suffering there in Fort Lauderdale, Hollywood, elsewhere, and Broward County. Sophia, thank you very much. In Florida, they're cleaning up after Hurricane Wilma, as we see.
Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner is tracking that story on the Web. She's joining us now live with the situation online. Jacki?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Sophia was talking about Fort Lauderdale right here. The pictures that we're starting to get in are more from Miami at this point.
Let me show you what we're starting see -- here's some of the flooding on Brickell, if you know anything about Miami, this is downtown. The Brickell area under water there. You can see how some of the high-rise buildings in that area, the windows just blown out almost completely, another one from Brickell again, Diego and Barbie, these are all from flicker.com. The group photo blog that we often reference.
More from Miami, you can see how the downed power lines are causing some havoc. Another one, from a blog we found hiddencity.net. One of the things to note about these downed trees and power lines, is after Hurricane Andrew in '92, it caused tremendous traffic problems for quite some time. And actually, when the power came back up, people had trouble getting acclimated once again.
Again, more photos here from South Florida, you can see the flooding, the roof damage, that sort of thing. There's a tremendous amount of water around. And also some photos coming in from West Palm. We took a look at Tiffany Lee's photos from yesterday. She had a couple more that she wanted to upload. You can see the trees. This is actually the top of a truck, Wolf.
So, all sorts of random things ending up in people's yards, all over South Florida.
BLITZER: Did you grow up in South Florida, Jacki?
SCHECHNER: I did. I grew up in Miami and I went through Andrew in '92, in a closet, nonetheless.
BLITZER: Well, you're here. All right, thanks very much, Jacki for that.
Zain Verjee is on assignment this week. She's filling in on CNN's AMERICAN MORNING. But, we're lucky that Andrea Koppel is with us from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories making news.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Well, you just reported on what Wilma did to Florida. Now, the State Department is weighing in on its efforts to help between 10 to 15,000 Americans who are stranded in Cancun, Mexico. State Department Spokesman Adam Ereli today said that he had a message for all those stranded Americans. He said, we're out there, don't worry, we're going to get to you, and we're doing a lot that you may not see. Now if any of our viewers think that they might have a loved one or a friend in Mexico and want the very latest information, the State Department says call toll-free 1-888-407-4747.
Now, Wilma is still packing a punch, it is fueling a nor'easter. And that's left 4,000 homes in Massachusetts without power. The National Weather Service has issued high wind warnings for the coasts of Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island. And in northern New Hampshire and Maine, they're expecting snow.
Initial tests on wild geese found dead in Germany show that they had a form of bird flu. But, a German health official says that is not what killed them. He says that the birds were poisoned. It's going to take more testing to know if the geese were carrying the deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu. Now, Wolf is going to be talking to an infectious disease expert in THE SITUATION ROOM during the next hour.
Now coming up in THE SITUATION ROOM, besides working together, Vice President Dick Cheney and his Chief of Staff Lewis Scooter Libby are friends, old friends. So how will their relationship stand up to the CIA leak scandal?
And more on those possible indictments. Coming up next, Wolf's going to talk to a former Watergate prosecutor about what he thinks that special prosecutor in this case is up to.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The Bush White House is remaining tight-lipped about the CIA leak investigation, especially with the possibility of indictments this week. As we told you earlier, the "New York Times" reports today that Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis Scooter Libby, first learned about the CIA officer Valerie Plame from the vice president himself.
Our Brian Todd has been taking a closer look into the relationship between Cheney and Libby. And Brian is joining us live.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, if anything can test a friendship in Washington, it's the high-profile investigation and the possibility of indictments. But there are few people in the city thought to be better at handling this kind of pressure and intrigue than the vice president and his closest aide.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): They work in a city where personal loyalties are constantly tested and are enmeshed in a story that has already broken some close bonds. Can the relationship between Dick Cheney and his chief of staff, Lewis Scooter Libby, survive the CIA leak scandal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see no evidence that this relationship won't survive this investigation.
TODD: The bond between Cheney and Libby is said to be extraordinarily close and is intertwined with a close confidant of both men, former Deputy Defense Secretary and current World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz. Libby served as Wolfowitz's aide at the State Department under Ronald Reagan and then at the Pentagon during the administration of George Bush, Sr. During that period, Wolfowitz was a key official under then-Defense Secretary Cheney.
A friend who's known Cheney for more than two decades, but who did not want to be identified, tells CNN it was at that time that Cheney came to respect Libby's analytical style and -- quote -- "passion for anonymity."
During the Clinton years, Libby worked as an attorney, representing high-profile clients like Clinton friend Marc Rich, recipient of a controversial Clinton pardon.
Shortly after Libby joined Cheney's staff in 2001, Wolf Blitzer asked the vice president if, given that affiliation, Cheney had confidence in Libby.
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mr. Libby, Lewis Libby -- Scooter, we call him -- has been an old friend of mine. He worked for me in the Pentagon, did a superb job for me when I was secretary of Defense. And I was delighted to get him to give up his very lucrative law practice and come back into public service when I became vice president. He's running my staff operation for me. Superb individual and very, very competent, capable lawyer, and also a good chief of staff.
TODD: The feeling has seemingly been mutual.
LEWIS "SCOOTER" LIBBY, CHENEY'S CHIEF OF STAFF: I'm a great fan of the vice president. I think he's one of the smartest, most honorable people I've ever met. So, I'd like to consider myself fully on his team.
TODD: Two former government officials who've worked with Cheney and Libby say the two men think very much alike. Both have a dry sense of humor, according to one Cheney friend, the vice president's sarcasm balancing Libby's disarming wit. Both place a high premium on keeping confidences. And they have the same worldview, sharpened during those years with Wolfowitz and three different wars.
JIM VANDEHEI, "WASHINGTON POST": They've both been among the strongest supporters inside this White House of going to war in Iraq, of toppling Saddam Hussein. They always have seen him as central in this war on terrorism.
TODD: And according to one Republican source, both men have been skeptical of U.S. intelligence on the Islamic world since well before September 11.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: One friend of Dick Cheney's is certain this bond will survive the CIA leak scandal, saying neither Cheney nor Scooter Libby would ever be disloyal to a friend.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian, thank you very much. Brian Todd reporting.
Let's talk a little bit more about the CIA leak probe and the possibility of indictments. We spoke last hour with former Whitewater prosecutor Robert Ray. Right now, let's get a separate take from former Watergate prosecutor and good friend, Richard Ben-Veniste.
Richard, thanks very much for joining us. What do you think is going on right now? Obviously, none of us knows for sure. But do you have a good sense of what may be happening tomorrow, the day after?
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, FMR. WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: Well, nobody knows because the prosecutor, Mr. Fitzgerald, is doing what he's supposed to be doing, and that is not leaking to the press. So everything we hear is coming from witnesses who have appeared before the grand jury or their lawyers and is, of necessity, speculative.
What he may be doing is assembling for the grand jury information that summarizes what's occurred in the two years that this case has been presented to them. And then perhaps discussing what the charges are.
Remember, this is a grand jury investigation. People have not been talking about the role of the grand jury. They have heard the witnesses testify before them. They'll decide whether explanations, perhaps explaining away inconsistencies, are credible or whether they don't believe those witnesses and will vote for obstruction of justice or perjury.
BLITZER: This grand jury usually meets on Wednesdays. That would be tomorrow. And Friday supposedly is the last day of this grand jury. That's why we're all anticipating possible indictments. Is that reasonable?
BEN-VENISTE: I think it's reasonable. One would not expect to wait until the last minute. You need a quorum in order to take action and indict on a grand jury of 12. So you know, the weather's supposed to be OK for the balance of the week, but a prudent prosecutor would probably give himself a little bit of cushion.
BLITZER: The...
BEN-VENISTE: If he was going to recommend an indictment.
BLITZER: This grand jury is here in Washington. Is it realistically, though, just a rubber stamp if Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor tomorrow morning, were to come in and say, let's vote. Here's what I think -- the crimes that were committed. Is it almost certain that the members of the grand jury and the District of Columbia would go ahead and say, yes, go ahead and indict?
BEN-VENISTE: The function of the prosecutor in the grand jury is to advise the grand jury. He presents the evidence to them. And then he'll summarize it. It is unlikely, in these circumstances, that he would make a recommendation that they would not follow. But we don't know what the recommendation is. If his recommendation is not to bring charges, he could have a revolt on his hands.
BLITZER: But we do know something, that last Friday, he posted a new Web site. Dick Thornburgh was on LATE EDITION on Sunday. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD THORNBURGH, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: The independent prosecutor opened up a Web site, and I think that's an ominous development for those people who have been targeted by the grand jury. You don't open a Web site if you're ready to shut down an investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And here's that Web site that people can go and read some of the documents already posted, not very many. Presumably, there will be more.
Let me also read to you what Nicholas Kristof, the columnist for the "New York Times." writes today. "Sure, flat-out perjury must be punished. But if the evidence is more equivocal, then indictments would mark just the kind of overzealous breach of prosecutorial discretion that was a disgrace when Democrats were targeted, and it would be just as disgraceful if Republicans are the targets." Do you agree with that?
BEN-VENISTE: No, I don't think so. In this case, you see a tremendous difference between the experience level, the integrity and impartiality of Mr. Fitzgerald. That's perhaps compared with Mr. Starr, who had no prosecutorial experience before he undertook the job investigating President Clinton.
BLITZER: But he had a staff of a lot of prosecutors, Justice Department career professionals who were working with Ken Starr. And you were very critical of him at that point for the prosecution that he leveled against Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton.
BEN-VENISTE: And the leaks and the way in which he proceeded and any number of different things, as well as the staff that he assembled.
BLITZER: So you don't think that there's some hypocrisy right now.
BEN-VENISTE: There is -- I think there's no comparison, in terms of the two prosecutors. Mr. Fitzgerald, as you heard from Bay Buchanan earlier, has a reputation that will not allow for a reasonable criticism of him, in terms of doing his job.
BLITZER: It was only a couple weeks ago, the president said he was conducting a very dignified investigation.
BEN-VENISTE: Well, he has. He hasn't leaked. He's been very professional, according to everybody who's appeared before him that's talked about it. And he's been methodical. And I think on both sides, those reasonable people in the center, at least, will have a great confidence in the conclusion he reaches.
BLITZER: Richard Ben-Veniste, thanks very much for joining us.
Up next, speculation over indictments of top Bush administration officials. We're continuing to monitor the story. One thing we do know is it wouldn't necessarily be the first in this administration. We'll tell you which former top White House official has already been indicted.
And, she stood up for civil rights by sitting down. Rosa Parks dies at the age of 92, but her contribution to this country lives on.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: If we learn of indictments this week in the CIA leak investigation -- and that's still a huge if -- it won't be the first indictment of a top Bush administration official. Earlier this month, a grand jury returned a five-count indictment against the administration's former chief procurement official.
David Safavian is charged with making false statements and obstructing investigations into Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff. Safavian has pleaded not guilty to the charges.
What are the Internet users saying about the CIA leak investigation? You can bet our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton knows. She's joining us with the situation online. Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, indeed. You said it was a huge if, if anyone's going to be indicted this week by the special counsel. But that doesn't stop people from going online and speculating about it. There are people using these Web sites -- tradesports.com, intrade.com -- to speculate about the future of two people that we're interested in, Karl Rove and Lewis Scooter Libby.
Let's look at their fortunes right now. Rove is trading at about 62 there. You can see him, an upward spike there just a little bit at the end. This about a 62 percent probability from the users of this site. They think he's going to be indicted.
Libby is not escaping the scrutiny. You can look at his fortunes here. He's gone up a little bit today after the "New York Times" piece came out today about him and his boss. He also -- you can see his fortunes, Libby's, following the news here. This big spike coming the same day that Judith Miller published her piece in the "New York Times" about her testimony to the grand jury.
Now, this is what we're following in Washington. You can also follow Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers. You can see that enthusiasm about that nominee has gone down somewhat. So that's what we're following in Washington -- Libby, Rove and Miers. But I have to say that that's not the most popular search out there today. One of most popular trades on one of these sites today, not what's concerning us in Washington, but it's the probability that the Philadelphia Eagles will be the NFC champs. So maybe what we're interested in, not quite what everyone else is interested in out there.
BLITZER: I'm interested in both of those subjects. Thanks very much. Abbi, for that.
Andrea Koppel, once again, joining us from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at other stories making news. Hi, Andrea.
KOPPEL: Hello again, Wolf. Well, the head of the United Nations team investigating the assassination of a former prime minister of Lebanon says he wants more cooperation from Syria. The chief investigator says he doesn't think the probe is going to end by December. That's his next deadline. His preliminary report, however, links Syria to the assassination. Syria denies the charges. The investigator says his team repeatedly was threatened while they were looking into the killing.
To Lagos, Nigeria, where the National Transportation Safety Board has sent investigators to look into Saturday's plane crash. All 117 people on board were killed when a Bellview Airlines flight crashed en route to the Nigerian capital. The team joins FBI agents who are already on the ground. The Nigerian government had asked the U.S. for help in the investigation.
And a sad ending for a group of whales off the coast of Australia. Sixty long-finned pilot whales died after swimming ashore on a remote Tazmanian Beach. About 80 volunteers were working to rescue the 10 surviving whales. Long-finned pilot whales can reach 20 feet in length. A spokeswoman said the whales are known to beach themselves in large groups, but, Wolf, scientists don't yet know why.
Wolf.
BLITZER: I don't know why, either. But that's a good story and we'll continue to follow that story. Thanks very much, Andrea, for that.
Still to come, remembering Rosa Parks. A central figure in the civil rights movement, she's dead at 92 years of age. We'll look back at how her protest changed America.
And it's not exactly Wilma, but the hurricane is an accomplice. A powerful nor'easter getting energy from Wilma and pounding places like Massachusetts and Connecticut with rain, winds and flooding. We'll have the latest.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: When she took a seat on a bus, she took a stand for justice. Rosa Parks died yesterday. She was 92.
CNN's Bruce Morton reports on how she changed America.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): December 1, 1955. The Montgomery bus driver told her to get up, give her seat to a white person. She said no. He said he'd have her arrested. She said you may do that. And he did. And Rosa Parks, aged 42, seamstress, NAACP activist, had changed America forever. Some said she wouldn't move because she was simply too tired. She said later, the only kind of tired I was, was tired of giving in.
BUSH: Rosa Parks' example helped touch off the civil rights movement and transformed America for the better. She will always have a special place in American history, and our nation thinks of Rosa Parks and her loved ones today.
MORTON: She was the flashpoint. Montgomery's estimated 40,000 black commuters launched a bus system boycott. A young minister named Martin Luther King led it. Black cab drivers charged blacks a dime, the bus fare, for a ride.
Parks, who had lost her regular job, was a dispatcher, helping blacks get transportation. But most walked. The boycott lasted a year and two weeks. It ended after the Supreme Court ruled the Montgomery law unconstitutional.
And the movement spread and grew, marches and protests and bombings and all the rest of it changing the face of the American South. Political changes, too. A southern president, Lyndon Johnson, signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of '65. And southern whites, once staunch Democrats, became Republicans, that party's strongest region now.
Rosa Parks, seeking quiet, moved to Detroit. Her fame spread beyond America. When a Chinese student challenged a tank in Beijing in 1989, South Africa's Nelson Mandela called it a Rosa Parks moment.
She told the "Washington Post" in 1995 she wasn't a hero or a saint, just a person who wanted to be seated on the bus. But what a difference she made.
Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: To learn more about Rosa Parks, there are many places to turn on the World Wide Web. Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner will show us some of them. What's the situation there?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Well, Wolf, when you and I were in school, we took an encyclopedia to learn about Rosa Parks. Now a lot of people are using the Internet.
Some sites we found today. Achievement.org. This is interesting. It's an old interview with Rosa Parks. It's got some video clips. This is a nonprofit organization that pairs students with newsmakers.
Another thing we wanted to show you today is the front page of "The Montgomery Advertiser." It is a beautiful tribute to Rosa Parks. This is the Web site. Up in the right hand corner, they have something on the Montgomery bus boycott. This is what the site looks like. You can flip through this.
It's got some really interesting stuff. For example, the historical news fronts -- if I can click on that for you here -- well, if it comes up, what it will bring up are old newspapers. And you can actually read about the bus boycott through these newspaper articles. The other thing on this site is a timeline, and the timeline itself had video clips. And not only can you take a look through history along the timeline, but you can bring up those video clips and watch things like Rosa Parks actually being arrested -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Jacki.
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