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The Situation Room

Interview With Acting FEMA Director David Paulison; Some American Tourists Stranded in Cancun

Aired October 25, 2005 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's 5:00 p.m. here in Washington, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where we're tracking multiple developing stories.
Happening now, it's 5:00 p.m. on the Eastern Seaboard, where Floridians without power and supplies are taking to the streets.

And in New England, tens of thousands are without power. Now snow is in the forecast. Is there enough help? I'll ask FEMA's acting director.

Americans are marking a somber milestone. Two thousand U.S. troops have died in Iraq. How significant is that statistic? Questions and reflections this hour.

And over at the White House, suspense and speculation in the CIA leak investigation. A newspaper report puts the spotlight back on the vice president, Dick Cheney. We'll examine his connection to the leak and to the CIA.

I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Our top story this hour, if bad weather were a crime, Hurricane Wilma would be an accomplice. That storm is aiding and abetting another, a powerful Nor'easter that's causing heavy rain, winds and flooding across the Northeast.

Our Dan Lothian is live in Massachusetts with that. Our severe weather special, Chad Myers, is standing by in Atlanta. Andrea Koppel has the latest on Florida's recovery efforts.

Let's begin, though, with Dan Lothian. Dan?

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, you know, Nor'easters are nothing new to New England. They come all the time, specifically in the wintertime, bringing a lot of snow. This time, though, much different, because this Nor'easter came very early -- in fact, a powerful punch -- and of course, instead of all the snow, we got a lot of water and wind.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN (voice over): A wrestling match off Cape Cod's Hyannis. John Wilson bobbed up and down in waist-deep water, fighting to save his sailboat from the Nor'easter. He needed help.

Enter CNN affiliate WHDH. The local news crew walked into the harbor to help. Wilson keeps the boat and his sense of humor.

JOHN WILSON, BOAT OWNER: That's just a day at the beach with a little wind and a little rain and one boat.

LOTHIAN: For fishermen from Gloucester, the waves were stronger, rough enough to get them back to port early.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just really strap yourself in, because, I mean, the boat is pitching and tossing and turning.

LOTHIAN: Along the coast, storm flags flew. We saw gusts as high as 63 miles per hour. Ferries between Cape Cod and the islands were grounded, and some flights at Boston's Logan International Airport canceled.

In the Boston suburb of Winthrop, power lines swung and fell. Crews did their best to restore electricity. But they had their hands full. At one time today at least 40,000 customers in Massachusetts had no electricity. Another 30,000 in Connecticut.

In Pennsylvania, an early winter dusting snow fell outside Pittsburgh in Westmoreland County. Forecasters say more snow could be in store from West Virginia to Maine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN: What's interesting is that Wilma only played a minor role in this Nor'easter because she was so far offshore. I was talking to Chad Myers earlier and he pointed out that, had Wilma been closer to us, then we could have seen these winds, which are so powerful now, doubled. We could have seen 100-mile-per-hour gusts.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Dan, stand by. I want to bring in our severe weather expert, Chad Myers, to give us the latest on Wilma and the Nor'easter.

What is the latest, Chad?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Wolf, that is absolutely true. The entire area there across the Northeast could have seen winds at 100 miles per hour today. It could have been a Category 2, for that matter, in New York and Boston.

But you will notice that the storms are separate. The storms are in two completely different places. The storm that moved through Miami, moved out far enough to the east that it did not hook up with the storm, with the upper-level Nor'easter. In truth, New York, Boston, what you're seeing today you would have seen anyway. It wouldn't have mattered whether the storm was farther away or closer.

Now, if the storm was significantly closer, you would have got a coupling, and then you would have seen something much more significant. But what you see is what you get, is what you would have seen anyway. So you're not seeing Wilma. And we're all thankful for that, Wolf, because there's absolutely no way all the way through Portland, through Boston, New York, down through Philadelphia, could have handled wind speeds over 100 miles per hour there.

Right now, Boston, you have airport delays, two hours. New York, LaGuardia and also JFK, two hours. And Philadelphia at three.

Wolf.

BLITZER: That's not fun at all. Thanks very much, Chad.

Dan Lothian, thanks to you as well.

In South Florida, meanwhile, millions are coping with what's -- what Wilma left behind. Get this, some six million people are in the dark right now. They have no electricity, no power. Many of them also need food and water. There are long lines of motorists waiting to get supplies.

Joining us now, the head of the agency that's been under a microscope in recent weeks. David Paulison is the acting director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, FEMA. He's joining us live from FEMA headquarters. Mr. Paulison, thanks very much for joining us.

DAVID PAULISON, ACTING DIRECTOR, FEMA: Good evening.

BLITZER: What do you -- how do you assess FEMA's performance so far as Wilma is concerned?

PAULISON: I think we're doing very well. We have a lot of supplies on the ground. We moved our urban search and rescue teams in early. We had medical teams on the ground, taking care of our first responsibility, which is life-saving activities. And now we move into the phase where we have to make sure we have food and water and lights down there.

So yes, we see the long lines also, and that's why we tell people have three-day supply of food and water when these storms come by so you don't have to do this, you don't have to stand in line. But regardless, we are moving literally hundreds and hundreds of trucks of food and ice and water down to the South Florida area.

BLITZER: Why are there such long lines right now? And these lines are incredible. You see these cars, people are getting out of their cars. They just want some water and ice. You could have as much food in the refrigerator as available, but if the refrigerator isn't working that food is going to spoil.

PAULISON: And that's what we're doing, we're moving this stuff down immediately. We've already moved literally hundreds of trucks already down there. I just talked to Manny Diaz, the mayor of the city of Miami, at the Orange Bowl. And they are very pleased with the supply line there. They said they do have long lines, but there is still plenty for everybody. And we are going to continue moving them down there to make sure we have the supplies that we need to take care of these people.

BLITZER: As you know, in Miami-Dade, in Broward, in West Palm Beach, and in the counties over there, a lot of elderly. And they live in high-rise buildings without power, no elevators. Is the state of Florida, the cities, are they responsible for going house -- apartment to apartment to deal with these elderly, or does FEMA get involved?

PAULISON: Well, we both do. It's really a state responsibility, but we're there to assist the state.

And by the way, the governor, Governor Bush, is just doing an outstanding job. Craig Fugate, the state emergency manager. They are unfortunately very experienced in this type of thing, and they're some of the best in the country. And the state is just doing a phenomenal job.

We've done all of urban search and rescues. In fact, we sent all the urban search and rescue teams home because we don't need them.

The weather is cool, so that's nice. We're not going to have some of the same issues we had in Rita when we had 100-degree temperatures. It's been down in the '50s at night, in the '70s in the day.

My wife is down there. Our house doesn't have power, it doesn't have telephone service. And so, you know, there are a lot of issues. And you take it very personally sometimes. That's my home town. And so we are going to make sure that we take care of everybody down there.

BLITZER: Should the people in Fort Lauderdale, Miami, Hollywood, West Palm, should they have been shocked as so many of them say they are as a result of what happened on the east coast of Florida?

PAULISON: Well, you know, I don't think they should have been shocked. I mean, this storm was coming across Florida. Florida is very flat. Timber across the Everglades is wet. It simply didn't deteriorate. And that's why we said early on, even though there were predictions it was going to be a Category 1, that FEMA and the state of Florida were going to prepare for a major hurricane. And I'm glad that we did, because we were ready for this storm.

BLITZER: One final question. All those Americans stranded in Cancun, in Mexico, in Cozumel, other places, does FEMA have any responsibility in trying to help them get out?

PAULISON: Really, we don't. Our role is mostly domestic. You know, I know there are a lot of family members trying to get them back. And once the things settle down and the winds die down, the airports open up, they'll get back home again.

BLITZER: David Paulison, the acting director of FEMA. Thanks, Mr. Paulison, very much.

PAULISON: Thank you.

BLITZER: Let's go to Cancun right now. Kelli Michel is on the phone. She's joining us. What's the latest there? What do you see and what do you feel there?

KELLI MICHEL, STRANDED IN CANCUN: Well, we're trying to remain calm, but we're in a desperate situation.

BLITZER: Talk a little bit about that. You were a tourist in Cancun, and you've been stranded there with thousands of others, including thousands of Americans. Is that right, Kelli?

MICHEL: That's correct. We are at the University of Technology in Cancun, and our hotel came to a structure, and there were 1,200 of us that were evacuated here. Twenty-one of us found a place to lay on the floor that was 14 by 14.

BLITZER: So what's the situation as far as food, water, medicine, accommodations? Are there sanitary conditions? Talk a little about what you've been living through over these past four or five days.

MICHEL: The toilets started to back up, and so we were forced to dig out the paper out of the -- out of the toilets so that the toilets wouldn't overflow. Now we've got a system where we're going outside and getting rainwater, bringing the rainwater in and flushing the toilets with the rainwater.

The hotel staff has not left our sides. In terms of accommodations and comfort, it's very uncomfortable, and it's very hot. We -- my family, there are six of us, and we slept in a stairwell for three nights. I slept on the stairs and had a little fan to fan my children when the temperature was almost 100 degrees inside.

BLITZER: We spoke with a representative of the United States Embassy in Mexico City who's come to Cancun about an hour and a half or so ago. And she told us that they were making arrangements, slowly but surely, for all the Americans to get out. What are you hearing about the possibility that you'll get out anytime soon?

MICHEL: We have not seen or heard anybody from our government at our facility. And what you need to know is, we are a fairly organized crew over here that get along well. And we've sent word with everybody with a cell phone to get on the phone with their state representatives, anybody they know, and let them know that we have been left high and dry.

We had a Mexican consulate come by here and offer to get us to an airport that's four hours away. It takes 12 hours right now to get there. There are six-foot drifts of water, and they're turning people around. No flights are leaving. So his -- the Mexican consulate guy came to us and said, we'll drive you to the airport to see what you can find out there.

BLITZER: So what you're saying is you would like to see the United States government send in some huge planes to Cancun. Is there an airport that's operational there that could accommodate a military transport plane or some other aircraft to get all of you out?

MICHEL: You know, I don't know. I know the Cancun airport, right now, if you were a lucky person to be on a charter flight, like Apple Vacations, or MLT Worry-Free Vacations, those charter flights are taking their people and going to the airport, and they're getting their people out.

Some of the people that we've banded together with here, we have made reservations on our own through the airlines. And I was scheduled on a flight today, I think it's Tuesday. I was scheduled on a flight -- our family was scheduled today. They bumped it to Thursday, and we just heard that now they bumped it to Friday. So, realistically, we could be here through the end of the week.

BLITZER: And are you having -- getting enough food where you are?

MICHEL: We are getting food, but we've got people that are getting very sick. Lots and lots of stomach problems.

Emotionally, the kids are OK. But the parents, you know, we want to take care of our families, and we can't. And we need our government to take care of us and they're not doing it.

BLITZER: Kelli Michel, we'll check back with you in Cancun. Thank you very much. Good luck to you.

MICHEL: Thank you.

BLITZER: Good luck to everyone stranded in Cancun right now, including thousands of Americans.

I want to go to Miami right now. Take a look at these pictures. These are live pictures we're getting in, courtesy our affiliate, WPLG, WSVN.

People are lining up at gas stations with canisters to get gasoline in Miami. This is Miami, Florida, the aftermath of Hurricane Wilma. Very long lines. If the helicopter pilot pans out you'll see long lines waiting, people trying to get some gasoline -- gasoline in these little canisters for their cars. You can see these people lining up in Miami, one example of some of the un-comfort, some of the dislocation, some of the damage caused by Hurricane Wilma.

Once again, six million people still without power in South Florida. That's one of every three residents of the state of Florida. No power in big parts of south Florida, including Miami-Dade County, Broward County, Palm Beach County.

We'll watch these situations for you. Much more on this coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Jack Cafferty has the week off. We'll get back to him and his questions next week.

Still ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, another measure of the U.S. mission in Iraq. Reflections on the death toll, now at 2,000, as far as American troops are concerned.

And later, another worrisome discovery of bird flu. We're tracking the potential threat to humans. And we'll check in with an expert on the subject.

You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The special prosecutor in the CIA leak investigation is expected to announce his findings and possibly -- possibly -- indictments this week, perhaps as soon as tomorrow.

Today's speculation focused again on the vice president, Dick Cheney. The "New York Times" reports Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis Scooter Libby, first learned about CIA operative Valerie Plame from the vice president weeks before her identity became public.

For much more on the vice president and the CIA leak, let's go over to the White House. Our correspondent there, Dana Bash, standing by. Hi, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. And because we expect, many expect as early as tomorrow, as you mentioned, the special prosecutor to make some kind of announcement, as we speak it's very likely that they are working on some kind of presidential statement. We expect the president to come out very soon after there is any announcement, indictments, perhaps, and make some kind of very short statement.

But as for now, until that happens, until anything happens, the comment still here is no comment, even when it comes to the vice president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice over): More than a month before her name appeared in print and blew her cover, the vice president told chief of staff Scooter Libby that Valerie Plame worked at the CIA. That according to the "New York Times," which reports Cheney learned about Plame from then-Director George Tenet after asking for more information about her husband, Joe Wilson, an administration critic.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There's a lot of speculation that is going on right now. There are many facts that are not known.

BASH: Bush officials will neither confirm nor deny the account, which appears to make the vice president himself a central source of White House knowledge about Plame.

Cheney's conversation with Libby about Wilson and his wife reportedly took place June 12, 2003, as Wilson began to anonymously accuse the administration of building a case for war with claims Iraq tried to buy uranium from Africa, ignoring his finding that was false.

Three months later, the vice president told NBC he did not know Wilson or who sent him on the Africa mission.

RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have no idea who hired him. And...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The CIA did.

CHENEY: But who in the CIA, I don't know.

BASH: That appears to contradict the "New York Times" report Cheney had already told Libby Wilson's wife may have helped arranged his trip.

Was he misleading? A GOP source close to Cheney could only say the statements were not contradictory. And a former intelligence official confirms to CNN the vice president did not know about Wilson's mission until well after it occurred.

But intelligence sources say all this exposes very real tension between the vice president and the CIA about Iraq. A former intelligence official tells CNN, Cheney and his staff pressured them to find links between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda, as well as evidence of Saddam Hussein's WMD.

In a CNN interview this past June, the vice president denied those allegations.

CHENEY: It's not true. And anybody who has looked at it -- and several people have -- has found it's not true.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Now, as for leaks investigation, regardless of any political or perception problems the vice president may encounter because of these new reports, experts say that it doesn't appear for now that the vice president is any legal jeopardy, especially since apparently he did not know that Valerie Plame was undercover when he talked to Scooter Libby about it.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Dana Bash at the White House. Good report. Thanks very much, Dana.

Coming up, stranded in paradise. Thousands of American tourists are stuck in Cancun and Cozumel, Mexico. How much longer with the effects of Hurricane Wilma keep them from getting home?

And the bird flu. Is Germany the latest target of the virus? Health officials there are looking into a possible outbreak in geese and ducks.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As we've been reporting, in South Florida, millions of people are coping with what Wilma left behind. Some six million Floridians are in the dark. They don't have power. Many of them also need food and water. Our Andrea Koppel is at the CNN Center in Atlanta. She's joining us now with more. Andrea?

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the damage from Wilma is bad enough, but tensions are growing now in South Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice over): In search of food, water and supplies in the aftermath of Wilma. In Broward County, near Fort Lauderdale, cars line up as far as the eye can see.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We didn't pay quite enough attention to the warnings. Anything can change at a second's notice, and I think many of us were left unprepared. Should have spent a little more time bottling up the water, filling up your bathtubs.

We have no power, no water. It could be weeks, they say.

KOPPEL: CNN's affiliate helicopter saw long lines at gas stations, at the Home Depot in Fort Lauderdale, and at the Wal-Mart in Miami-Dade County.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Too much waiting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Too much waiting for six bottles of water and one glass, a glass of water -- ice.

KOPPEL: In Key West, where residents are dealing with flooding, Governor Jeb Bush paid a visit and promised help.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: The storm was still blowing through here about this time yesterday. And we now have a point of distribution set up here in Key West. The efforts are ongoing.

KOPPEL: On Florida's Gulf Coast, residents sized up the damage. For this resident in the Naples area, the destruction was worse than expected.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never expected to come back and see it like this, because I was up with my son and daughter-in-law. And then I came down yesterday. And I didn't even -- I couldn't even recognize my own place. I thought I was on the wrong street. But, what are you going to do, you know? You can't stop Mother Nature.

KOPPEL: Wilma inflicted extensive damage on homes from Florida's Gulf Coast to the Atlantic.

Major airports in Miami and Fort Lauderdale are only now preparing to reopen. But they didn't have to grapple with this. At the Opa Locka Airport, a parked jet poked its nose through the fuselage of another jet, leaving a gaping hole.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And five deaths are also being blamed on Wilma's trek through Florida. Seventeen were killed in Haiti and Mexico before Wilma arrived in Florida.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Andrea, thank you very much.

Another person following the dire situation in South Florida right now is Maggie Rodriguez of CNN affiliate WFOR. Maggie is joining us live. Yesterday, you got knocked off the air. I assume you're back on -- on the air right now, Maggie. Is that right?

MAGGIE RODRIGUEZ, WFOR REPORTER: We are, Wolf. We're back on generator power, though, because, all over South Florida, none of us have power. Some cities don't have water.

There's debris and trees all over the roads. And if we go up north, the county just north of us, Broward County, the picture is far more grim there, as you heard Andrea report. They were hardest hit by this storm. And most of the county has severe damage. But a good chunk of the county also has catastrophic damage. And when I say that, I mean damage that's widespread, a widespread failure in many systems. There are homes that are simply uninhabitable.

And compounding the fact that so many people in Broward County lost everything, now they're having to deal with the situation at the distribution centers that were supposed to be up and running, providing water and ice. But because of a failure in communication, a major breakdown, they're not able to be up and running. So people waiting in line for hours and hours. There are miles and miles of cars on the road, just waiting patiently. And the word that we're getting now is, they may not even have those supplies ready today.

And this word is not getting to people in those lines. For some reason, they're not being told that, even if they wait in line and they make it to the front of the line, by the time they get there, if supplies arrive today, they will likely not get ice or water. And we're coming up on darkness here pretty soon, Wolf. And that means that all these people are going to be on the road in the dark. So you can imagine, just a heartbreaking situation in Broward County.

BLITZER: And the traffic lights are not working. The electricity is not there. It's going to be dark pretty soon.

Are there curfews in Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach County? People should not necessarily go out on the street during -- during the nighttime?

RODRIGUEZ: Yes, Wolf. Curfews went into effect last night. And they'll be in effect again tonight, beginning at 7:00 or 8:00, depending on which county -- which county you live.

But they are being a little bit lax about that. If you're in line waiting to get water and ice, and you're in line past the end of the curfew, of course, they won't kick you out. They'll let you stay in line as long as it takes. The main reason for the curfew is because there are still so many hazards on the road, because the lights don't work. We're seeing a lot of injury accidents at intersections, where people are not heading the precaution that they should be.

BLITZER: Maggie Rodriguez of our CNN affiliate WFOR. Maggie, thanks very much. We will check back with you. Good report.

Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, how much of a threat is the bird flu to the United States? We are tracking that international story. We will have all the angles for you. There are new developments happening today. We will tell you what is going on.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: In Cuba, after Hurricane Wilma, the floodwaters that turned some streets into small rivers are now receding. But there is still heavy damage to contend with.

Our Havana bureau chief, Lucia Newman, has -- has the latest. She's joining us live from the Cuban capital. Lucia?

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF: Hi, Wolf. Well, it's hard to believe that everything you see here behind me was absolutely inundated yesterday. The waters, as you say, have receded. There are a few tunnels still flooded. But now you can more or less walk, instead of swim the streets. But also, now comes the hard part for many Cubans.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NEWMAN (voice-over): Cuba's civil defense uses a rough terrain military vehicle used years ago in the Angolan war to evacuate a group of Spanish tourists from their still wet hotel. They're off to the airport.

But for the Cubans who stay behind, after the deluge comes the real nightmare.

Bagalia Rente (ph), a retired public servant, lost everything she ever had during what Cubans call the storm of the century back in 1993. Now, she has relived the experience.

"We had everything up as high as possible, and I thought it would be safe. But the water came up so high, even higher than last time," she says.

The worst part is that Hurricane Wilma hit just as she was finally about to move to higher ground. I ask if she can replace all this.

"Don't make me laugh," she says. "If it took me nearly a decade last time, how do you think I can do it now?" It's a sentiment shared by many Cubans, who can barely make ends meet as it is, and who, of course, has no insurance. At least 2,000 homes were seriously damaged. All along the Havana shoreline, people try to pick up the pieces or throw away some of those things they cherished, like this man's piano.

"It belonged to my grandmother. It's from 1901, and it's ruined," says Christiane (ph), a retired veterinarian.

In Old Havana, the civil defense distributes food to those who are still trying to make their homes inhabitable again. At least the floodwaters have receded. The sun is out again. And people can put their things out to try, those things which can still be salvaged, that is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWMAN: And Wolf, this ocean is still a threat to the people of Havana. As people keep reminding themselves all the time, there's still at least five more weeks of hurricane season left.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Who wants to think about that? I guess you have no choice, though. Thanks, Lucia, very much. Lucia Newman reporting from Havana.

After five days of sleeping on floors without food or water, thousands of tourists stranded in Cancun, Mexico, are saying, enough is enough. They have been there since Hurricane Wilma struck.

Our Mary Snow is joining us now live from New York. She's been watching what's going on. Mary?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's estimated there are about 20,000 tourists in Mexico in the areas that were hit. About half of those, at least half, are estimated to be Americans. Some of getting out, but Mexico's president has said it could take a week for everybody to get home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): Tired as frustrated, thousands of tourists are trying to leave Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula after being stranded there by Hurricane Wilma.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just want to be able to get out. And we don't know what's going to happen.

SNOW: Forced out of hotels, many tourists are staying in shelters. The U.S. State Department says it's working with local officials to get Americans home quickly and, in the meantime, ensure their safety. There were reports of looting, along with short supplies of food and water.

ADAM ERELI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We're focusing our attention first on those shelters where there were reports of difficult circumstances, either water running out, or signs of criminality, or other kind of unsanitary conditions that needed to be addressed.

SNOW: A Mexican Embassy spokesman reports the looting is now under control, and says 500 federal police have been deployed to areas where it occurred.

As Cancun's airport struggles to get back to normal, thousands have been bussed 150 miles away to Merida, where flights have been getting out. At Cozumel, another popular vacation spot, it's a different story. It's not as accessible. Ferry boats are the main way off the island. The State Department estimates there are 900 Americans stuck in Cozumel. And it says it remains very concerned about conditions.

Adding to the problems not just in Cozumel, but in Cancun, limited phone and computer service are making it difficult to communicate. As vacationers try to get out, worries set in. Medication supplies are becoming scarce.

CASEY PETERS, TOURIST: I haven't had medication for three days. And the medicines I take, they -- they don't have here.

SNOW: Others are looking for the basics, even a clean shirt to wear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have been in these for five days now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have not had a wash for five days. So, we have just been walking around.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In T-shirts...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have just found some...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... found a local shop, because we have had no food or water.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: Now, authorities are reporting that some chartered flights are getting out of Cancun's airport. But it's still not open to commercial flights. Also, the State Department has posted a number on its Web site for people looking for information about their relatives who may still be there.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Mary Snow, thank you very much. In Cancun, One resident is posting pictures of Hurricane Wilma's damage on the Web.

Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, is checking the situation online. Jacki?

JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, you might remember, we have been following Kevin since Wilma struck Cancun over the weekend. This is what he looked like when he was posting pictures via generator power in Cancun. Here are some of the exclusive photos that he has sent to us. They're posted on stormcarib.com. But there's a whole set he hasn't put up yet. He sent them exclusively to CNN.

You can take a look at the structural damage that's awaiting people actually outside in Cancun, if they can get out of the shelters and into the streets. This is what it looks like. It's not a pretty picture.

I e-mailed back and forth with Kevin a little bit. And essentially, what he told me is because Cancun is such an incredible tourist destination, that the government is really insistent on getting things back and -- up and running as quickly as humanly possible. But you can see, the devastation is pretty extensive.

And I did ask him also about Cozumel. You saw it in Mary's package. He said he has not had word from his friends there yet, Wolf. He will keep us posted when he hears something.

BLITZER: Jacki, thank you very much.

Lou Dobbs getting ready for his excellent program right at the top of the lawyer. Lou, what are you working on?

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.

At 6:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN tonight, we will be reporting on the scale and the extent of the damage across Florida after Hurricane Wilma. It could be the third costliest hurricane in this country's history. We will have complete coverage for you.

And record profits for big oil companies, new pain for American consumers, and outrage among many politicians on Capitol Hill, who are doing nothing -- almost nothing. We will tell you about it on our special report tonight.

And new poll numbers have come in on President Bush, as he awaits the legal fate of his closest political advisers. We're live at the White House with that and a great deal more, all coming up at the top of the hour. Please join us.

Now back to you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Lou.

One month after Hurricane Rita tore into Louisiana, small businesses are finding themselves in a familiar position, waiting for aid from the federal government.

Our Ali Velshi is keeping tabs on the "Bottom Line" for small businesses. Ali, what are you picking up?

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: You remember, Wolf, we were talking about what small businesses in affected areas or anywhere in the country where the region you're in has been declared a state of -- a state of emergency has been declared. That qualifies small businesses for emergency aid.

Now, we have been trying to keep tabs on how this is working, how these applications to the Small Business Administration are going. Right now, between Hurricanes Rita and Katrina, 163,000 applications, roughly, have been received by the Small Business Administration. Of that, 2,865 loans have been approved and those loans have been made. That's one-and-three-quarter percent.

Thirteen thousand applications every day were coming in the month after Hurricane Katrina. In the last two weeks alone, about 70,000 applications have come in. One congresswoman is saying that it's simply unacceptable.

The -- we spoke to the Small Business Administration about why it's taking so long to get these loans made to the small businesses who are suffering. They have said that there's some great difficulty in assessing the damage. A lot of the small business owners who have made these claims are in different parts of the country, spread over about 44 different states. And one of the -- the biggest problems that they say is that a lot of small businesses are looking for emergency loans -- they have emergency help -- whereas the loans from the Small Business Administration are meant for long-term recovery. The SBA says that the small businesses should really be applying to FEMA for emergency aid.

That being said, it's -- it's a little complicated to get these applications through. A lot of people don't have the records available to them. And there are many, many, hundreds of thousands of small business owners who are not getting satisfaction from the Small Business Administration.

We will keep a tab on this, Wolf, and keep you posted over the course of the next few weeks as to how -- how many people are getting their loans.

BLITZER: All right.

VELSHI: Wolf.

BLITZER: Ali, thank you very much, Ali Velshi reporting.

Similar problems, presumably, could come up in Florida as well.

Up next, the bird flu. We will get updates from around the world. And we will talk to an expert about where we stand in the fight against the potential global pandemic. There are new developments happening today. We will tell you what they are. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There are new developments and new concerns on the bird flu front.

CNN's Andrea Koppel once again joining us from the CNN Center in Atlanta. Andrea?

KOPPEL: You know, Wolf, it seems as if, almost every day, we're hearing about possible new cases of bird flu, not just in different countries, but different continents.

Today, we begin in Germany, where health officials there are examining more than a dozen wild geese and ducks found dead in a lake used by migratory birds. Now, first indications are that the birds had some form of bird flu, though that is not what killed them. Tests are not going to be finished until later this week. If the deadly H5N1 bird flu virus is found, it will be the first outbreak in Germany.

Now, in China, a United Nations official says 2,100 geese were sickened by the bird flu virus, and a quarter of them died. It is the second outbreak in China in a week. China, however, has not reported the spread of the virus to humans in that country.

And in Canada, health ministers from 30 nations are in the second day of a conference that is devoted to figuring out how to prevent a possible bird flu pandemic. Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin stressed that the importance there is helping impoverished Asian farmers. Mr. Martin said, unless farmers know that they're going to get help, they may be afraid to tell authorities if their poultry gets sick.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Andrea, thank you very much.

So, where do we stand right now in the fight to prevent a pandemic?

Joining us is Michael Osterholm. He's the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research at the University of Minnesota. He's here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Thanks very much, Dr. Osterholm, for joining us.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Almost on a daily basis, we get new reports, geese, ducks, some in -- in several other countries developing these -- these systems. What's going on?

OSTERHOLM: What's happening is, the virus has now made its way into migratory birds. And they're carrying it to these other countries. And we're seeing sick domestic birds, in terms of some chickens. But, most of all, we are just seeing wild birds that are dying at the location that they're now arriving. BLITZER: Is it only a matter of time before we see some of these sick birds here in the United States?

OSTERHOLM: It's possible. It's interesting that, over the years, we have not seen the viruses of Africa and Eurasia actually make it into the birds of North America -- suggesting, while they may over winter or over summer, in common areas, it's not likely that the viruses have moved. And so they may not come here. We don't know.

BLITZER: The great fear is if there's -- if the bird flu virus mutates and isn't going to affect people who get it from birds, but might get it from other human beings, and during the flu season, which has now started, there's some fear -- and you can explain this to our viewers -- that that is possible.

OSTERHOLM: Right. Actually, the way the flu virus can mutate into a pandemic flu virus strain is, either two different viruses -- one from a bird and one from a human -- get together in one lung cell, either in a pig or a human's, and then combine into making that pandemic strain.

The other way that we are really most concerned about, I believe, is just the constant mutations of this virus, particularly in Asia, where it's in -- literally in contact with billions of domestic birds and billions of people. That will ultimately just result in the pandemic occurring.

So right now, we're not concerned so much about the pandemic in -- in Europe or the Americas.

BLITZER: Dr. David Baltimore, the president of the California Institute of Technology, writes in the "Wall Street Journal." He says: "Drugs are a poor way to control a virus in a large population. If the drugs are widely used, the virus is almost certain to mutate to resistance, making the drug useless."

Do you agree with him?

OSTERHOLM: I agree with 100 percent with Dr. Baltimore. And I would even go one step further and say that some of the data we have right now says that this virus, while it works well on regular flu, may not even work that well with H5N1. And so...

BLITZER: Like Tamiflu?

OSTERHOLM: Exactly.

BLITZER: So, we have to be concerned about the silver bullet mentality -- if we just buy a drug, we are OK.

BLITZER: I know people...

(CROSSTALK)

OSTERHOLM: ... we are not.

BLITZER: ... who are running out to their drugstores, getting prescriptions, and buying Tamiflu just to have it in their closet.

OSTERHOLM: You know, Wolf, when you look at what the Roche company and all of the possible other manufacturers can make, they can probably make enough drug to treat about 7 percent of the world's population in the next five years. This isn't going to have a big impact on this pandemic.

BLITZER: Howard Ryan, a manufacturer of these masks, is quoted in the "Philadelphia Inquirer" as saying: "It's an uncontrollable ascent in sales of face masks. Our graph looks like a mountain. But we will come to the edge of the cliff when our stock runs out."

There are people running out and buying these in case, God forbid, there is some sort of pandemic. And there's maybe even short supply. What are you hearing about this?

OSTERHOLM: Well, that is happening. People are deciding for themselves that they're hearing this on the media. They're fearful. And, as we have said before on this show, we're trying to scare people into their wits, not out of their wits. We need governments to be better prepared. We need to be able to have those kinds of masks for health care workers. And it would be unfortunate if we run out of masks for the general public and not have them for health care workers. That may be hard to hear, but it's true. And we're very concerned about that right now.

BLITZER: Dr. Michael Osterholm, thanks very much for joining us.

OSTERHOLM: Thanks. Thank you very much.

BLITZER: Abbi Tatton is here checking the situation online on this specific subject. Abbi, what are you picking up?

ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Just quickly, Wolf, some online resources showing you the spread of bird flu, this from the World Health Organization, constant updates on new infections, the most recent on human infections in Indonesia and in Thailand, also, maps showing the spread of these human cases, these cases from 2004.

If you look back at that map today, the more colors, the different phases of the spread, you can see how that's spreading in Southeast Asia.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Abbi Tatton reporting for us. Abbi, thank you very much.

Up next, Floridians are taking extreme measures to get supplies after Hurricane Wilma. We will tell you what's going on in South Florida.

You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CYBELE WEISSER, WRITER, "MONEY": This year, we have chosen college towns as the place to retire to.

Ashland, Oregon, was one of the ones that made our list. It's in a very beautiful area, the mountains right there. They have a Shakespeare festival that draws people from all over the country. Also, seniors can take classes for free at the University of Southern Oregon.

One of the cons is that it's -- the housing is relatively pricey. Now, it's a deal if you're coming from somewhere else on the West Coast, like California. But if you're coming from, say, the Midwest it is going to look kind of steep.

I think the defining quality of Ashland would have to be the outdoorsiness, the beautiful landscape, you know, kind of that West Coast, laid-back feel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We are getting these live pictures here into THE SITUATION ROOM.

These -- these -- actually, this is new video that just came into THE SITUATION ROOM. Check this out, long lines developing and some angry folks. They -- they want water. They have written these signs, helicopters passing by from our affiliates. And they are saying: We need water. It's also in Spanish. They also need ice -- WPLG, WSVN, our affiliates.

These people down there are anxiously awaiting water and ice, lots of people in dire straits right now in South Florida, in Miami- Dade County, in Broward County, Palm Beach County, elsewhere in Florida as well, six million Floridians still without power.

We are watching this story. We will update it throughout the night here on CNN, as well as tomorrow.

We will be back in THE SITUATION ROOM tomorrow. We're on weekdays from 3:00 to 6:00 p.m. in the afternoon, Eastern Time. I'm Wolf Blitzer.

LOU DOBBS TONIGHT starts right now. He's in New York.

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