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The Situation Room
Paulison and Chertoff Tour Hurricane Zone; CIA Leak Investigation Detailed
Aired October 26, 2005 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's 4:00 p.m. in Washington and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
Happening now, the grand jury meets and top Bush administration officials wait. Will there be indictments in the CIA leak investigation? The anticipation and the anxiety are at a fever pitch throughout much of Washington right now.
Also this hour, the president's predicament. What will he do if indictments reach the White House? And will the public take it out on him?
And lined up and teed off in South Florida, the damage from Hurricane Wilma is bad enough, but the scramble for supplies keeps making matters worse.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
The Bush administration is putting business as usual out front out there, but it's the business of a federal grand jury that has the White House in knots. Top officials know indictments may be coming, but this hour, we don't know who, if anyone, will be hit or when. We're live at the courthouse, the White House, and on Capitol Hill.
Let's head over to Bob Franken first, he's keeping tabs on the grand jury and what happened today. Bob?
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, questions, questions, questions, Wolf. We know the grand jury met. We know that Patrick Fitzgerald and his staff was meeting with the grand jury, led to believe that there was at least some discussion about possibly indictments or whatever action is going to be taken or not taken in the case of the disclosure of Valerie Plame.
Now, Patrick Fitzgerald left, went back to his office, leaving open a number of possibilities and a number of timelines. The timeline being that the grand jury is supposed to have its last session on Friday, at which point the grand jury is supposed to go out of existence. That doesn't preclude Fitzgerald asking for an extension of this grand jury or if he's not finished, taking his case, Wolf, to another grand jury. That's also possible.
BLITZER: Bob, the whole notion of an announcement not coming today, a lot of us thought it could come as early as today. What, if anything, should we read into the fact there's no official word from the federal prosecutor?
FRANKEN: We can read everything. We can come up with just about every plausible contradictory scenario. For example, we could read that there was nothing to announce, that there won't be any indictments. We can also read that the grand jury has been given its pitch by the special prosecutor and given time to consider. We could also read of the possibility that there were secret indictments, that for one reason or another are going to be kept under wraps until the special prosecutor decides to make his announcement.
As I said, there are these contradictory assumptions which are driving people crazy, particularly at the White House.
BLITZER: All right, Bob, thank you very much.
Let's get over to the White House. Officials insisting they're focused on the priorities of the American people, not on the special prosecutor.
Our correspondent at the White House, Suzanne Malveaux, is standing by with more on reaction there. Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, really, if there was any question this investigation was going to get in the way of the White House conducting business, people in this building certainly want to dispel you of that notion.
The president at this hour meeting with the president of Ghana. It was just a last-minute schedule addition. President Bush has been very busy today.
I have to tell you, there are several people inside the White House this morning, when they heard there'd been no announcement, were quite disappointed
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush and his top aides looked busy as Washington anxiously waits for possible indictments out of the CIA leak investigation. The two senior officials who may face charges, Karl Rove and Scooter Libby, seen shuttling between the White House and their offices next door. Both present for Mr. Bush's 7:30 daily morning meeting.
Across town, cameras chased special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald to try to capture his next move. One White House insider said the deeper we get, the more nervous we become.
While the investigation is very much on everyone's minds, no one is talking about it. The White House strategy now is to focus on what the administration can do as it waits for the next shoe to drop.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So we're continuing to focus on what the American people care most about. Those are the things that we can do something about. We obviously continue to follow developments in the news. MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush's schedule is packed, and on a normal day, probably would have made news -- in the morning, a meeting with the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, a strategy session with congressional leaders, and a bill signing. Later, a courtesy call with the prime minister of Macedonia and a speech on the economy.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These pro-growth policies have worked.
MALVEAUX: Central to the administration's strategy is to pivot the spotlight to the positive. On the foreign policy front, the successful passage of the Iraqi constitution, but the American ambassador gave us mixed reviews.
ZALMAY KHALILZAD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: The insurgency and terrorists remain a formidable challenge, strong.
MALVEAUX: On the domestic front, Mr. Bush deals again with hurricane recovery, traveling to Florida Thursday to comfort victims of Hurricane
Wilma. Behind all this public animation, insiders say the White House is ready for the investigation's outcome. Should officials be indicted, insiders say it is widely assumed they will resign immediately and trusted aides will move in to fill the void. The president will make a brief statement, citing a legal process that is ongoing, and then he will continue with his schedule moving forward.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: He's got three long years ahead of him as president of the United States. This is not some sort of TV show that runs out of its ratings and suddenly is canceled. You can't cancel a presidency. You have to go on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: But of course, one complication here is how to win back his conservative base. And that complicated by the Harriet Miers nomination, which is currently bogged down in a battle over documents.
Wolf?
BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux, thank you very much.
With the threat of indictments hanging over the White House, Democrats on Capitol Hill see an opportunity to pounce.
Let's check in with our congressional correspondent Ed Henry. Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's clearly not as tense here as it is at the White House, but congressional Republicans clearly on edge. They're already dealing with the Tom DeLay and Bill Frist investigations. And now, now if there are any indictments in the CIA leak case, that obviously could reverberate in next year's mid-term elections.
President Bush of course will not be on the ballot, but the Republican majorities in the House and Senate will both be on the line. Democrats, as you say, already trying to capitalize politically. The latest today was Senator John Kerry. One year ago this week, he thought he would be the next president. Of course, he's still on the outside looking in, but today at Georgetown University, he came out swinging.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We still don't know yet whether this will prove to be an indictable offense in a court of law, but for it, and for misleading the nation into war, they will be indicted in the high court of history. History will judge the invasion of Iraq as one of the greatest foreign policy misadventures of all time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Republicans feel that with all of these attacks, Democrats may overplay their hand. They may so blatantly politicize it that it will backfire, but that's little solace for Republicans here on the Hill. They obviously are on edge, they're bracing for anything.
Wolf.
BLITZER: A follow-up question on Harriet Miers. She's been having major meetings that have been going on. The confirmation hearings scheduled, I think November 7, they're supposed to start. What's the latest?
HENRY: Well, there was a very high-level meeting today, it was interesting, in the Capitol in Vice President Cheney's ceremonial office, just steps off the Senate floor. It included White House adviser Ed Gillespie, also Leonard Leo of the conservative Federalist Society in Texas, Senator John Cornyn.
I can tell you, at that meeting, they talked about - they're basically acknowledging the obvious, that these one-on-one meetings, nearly 30 of them with various senators and Harriet Miers have not worked, and they're trying desperately to find new tactics to try to tell her story.
Senator Cornyn, who has been very upbeat about this nomination throughout the storm acknowledging to me he's getting very concerned that, in his words, there's an inability to -- quote -- "Break through the chatter that Miers is in deep trouble here on the Hill."
This meeting also comes amid some second-guessing among some of the allies pushing this nomination for the White House. Two officials involved in the process telling me that they think the White House has dropped the ball a bit, made too many mistakes on this nomination.
In fact, one official telling me quite candidly that he believes Harriet Miers has not been served well by the White House advisers. A second official saying the White House has to crank this up a notch in order to save this nomination. But these officials, even among some of that pessimism, still optimistic that when those hearings start on November 7, Harriet Miers herself can turn this around, a view echoed today by White House Spokesman Scott McClellan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCLELLAN: This is still early in the confirmation process. The hearings will give people an opportunity to ask her questions where she can talk in more detail about her experience and her background and talk about her judicial philosophies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: All eyes now turning to that do-over questionnaire that Harriet Miers has to return to the Senate Judiciary Committee today. We're hearing it could be as late as 7:00 p.m. tonight. Democrats already charging that's because the Republicans want to try to put that episode, the messy episode of the first questionnaire not being good enough, behind them, so they're trying to get it so late that it will be past all of the news cycles.
Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Ed, thank you very much. Ed Henry reporting.
Some high-level conservatives are launching a new ad campaign urging President Bush to withdraw Harriet Miers' nomination. The group called Americans for Better Justice says it's spending about $250,000 to air the ad on the FOX News network for one week, beginning today.
We'll have to go another day without the Jack Cafferty File. Jack's on vacation, he'll be back next week. Stay tuned for that.
Up next, the CIA leak suspense on Capitol Hill. Will Democrats have a field day if top White House aides are indicted? I'll ask the party's number two man in the U.S. Senate.
Also ahead, powerless in Florida, the lights still out and food and water hard to find after Hurricane Wilma. Can storm victims cope?
Plus, a deadly bombing in Israel and a claim of responsibility. Is the cycle of violence beginning again?
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Many top Democrats are on record. They expect Karl Rove and Scooter Libby to leave the White House if they're indicted in the CIA leak probe. We're joined now by the number two Democrat in the U.S. Senate, the Minority Whip Dick Durbin of Illinois.
Senator, thanks very much for joining us.
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL), MINORITY WHIP: Good to be with you.
BLITZER: First of all, would you expect any administration official indicted to immediately resign? DURBIN: Yes, I would. Certainly those at the highest levels, such as the chief of staff of the president and vice president. And in all fairness now, no indictments have been handed down. We shouldn't presume it, although there's a lot of speculation in this town.
BLITZER: If they step down, would they go on sort of administrative leave? Would they still be on the payroll? Leave without pay? What would be specifically the stepping down that you would want?
DURBIN: You know, I can't tell you the formula, but I think to have the president of the United States with a chief of staff under that cloud of suspicion is really not good for our country. The president said at an earlier time that he believed that as well, that if someone was indicted for charges that are serious, that they should step aside. I hope he stands by that earlier statement.
BLITZER: We're looking at also a live picture of the U.S. courthouse. No indictments expected today -- possibly tomorrow or Friday, or maybe beyond. I assume you know this special counsel, the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, he's the U.S. attorney in Chicago. Do you have total confidence in him either way, if he issues an indictment or decides no crime was committed?
DURBIN: Yes, I do. I personally interviewed him for the job of the U.S. attorney for the Northern District after he was nominated by my senatorial colleague, and I came away very impressed. He is a professional prosecutor. He is not political in any way.
And when I talked to him very seriously about the problems of leaking information from a grand jury, he told me on his watch he would do everything in his power to make sure it didn't happen. And I think you'd have to concede, Wolf, that in this whole investigation at the highest levels that the information to the grand jury has really been protected with very, very few exceptions.
BLITZER: It's really been amazing how few leaks, if any, from his side there've been. There've been leaks from attorneys representing various witnesses, but not from him.
Here's what Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson, your Republican colleague from Texas, said on "Meet the Press" on Sunday. "I think we are seeing grand juries and U.S. attorneys and district attorneys that go for technicalities, sort of a gotcha mentality in this country."
She was referring if there's some sort of charge involving perjury or obstruction of justice, conspiracy, as opposed to the original issue, which was revealing the identity of a covert CIA officer. Do you agree with her?
DURBIN: Absolutely not. Let me tell you this, when this law was created by President Bush's father, it was in response to the publication of a CIA agent's name which jeopardized their life. And President Bush's father said that anyone who would disclose the identity of a covert CIA agent was the most -- and I quote -- "the most insidious of traitors." That's about as harsh as you can be when it comes to criticizing another person in America. So we're dealing with a very, very serious matter. It's a matter which goes to some fundamental questions of fair play and justice in America.
In this instance, someone, perhaps more than one, in the White House, disclosed the identity of this CIA agent in an effort to discredit and somehow cast some doubt about the veracity of charges against this administration and the information leading up to the invasion of Iraq that was venal, it was political, and it was criminal.
BLITZER: Let me read to you a quote, and I'll see if you remember this quote. It's from February 2, 1999. "It isn't a question of whether I can defeat the candidate of the other party. The question is, can I get him indicted or can I get him removed from office, or can I get him investigated?" Do you remember saying that?
DURBIN: No, I don't.
BLITZER: Well, you're quoted in the "St. Louis Post Dispatch" as having said that, referring to the Ken Starr indictments and going after Bill Clinton and other White House aides. There was a notion at that time that there was the criminalization of politics, if you will. And some are suggesting, Republicans right now, that's what's going on -- the Democrats lost and they're trying to criminalize politics right now with potential indictments.
DURBIN: Wolf, I think you're two steps ahead. We know now that someone disclosed the identity of a covert CIA agent, Valerie Plame. We know that that disclosure could be a serious crime, and that's what's being investigated by U.S. attorney Fitzgerald. Whether the actual charges turn out to be perjury is anybody's guess at this point.
We both can see that Patrick Fitzgerald has been a very good and professional prosecutor. But if people intentionally misled the grand jury or the U.S. attorney, if they were misled by the president's spokesperson at the White House, this is an extremely serious matter.
Now, what I'm saying, and what I said earlier, was it is true that some people go after indictments to try to discredit someone politically. But the underlying charge here is a very serious charge related to America's national security.
BLITZER: Listen to the president referring to the Harriet Miers nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court. You're a member of the Judiciary Committee. He said this earlier in the week on Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: They've asked for paperwork about the decision-making process, what her recommendations were. And that would breach very important confidentiality. And it's a red line I'm not willing to cross. People can learn about Harriet Miers through hearings, but we are not going to destroy this business about people being able to walk into the Oval Office and say, Mr. President, here's my advice to you.
BLITZER: Does the president make a good point?
DURBIN: Well, I think he makes an important point, but consider the context. We know so little about this woman who is seeking a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land. She has not been responsive to questionnaires. The first time I can remember, the Senate Judiciary Committee questionnaire was returned by both Republicans and Democrats, and she wad told to do it over. I've met with her personally, many other senators have, and come away with no real understanding of who she is or what her qualifications are for the court.
So we're looking for more. If the president is going to say that communications between his general counsel and the president are privileged, that is certainly a good point. But certainly, things that she has written and disclosed to others outside the White House are not privileged. So we need the cooperation of the White House so we have a better insight into Harriet Miers and the kind of service that she would bring to the U.S. Supreme Court.
BLITZER: Were you up very, very, very late last night, Senator?
DURBIN: In my office, Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago joined the Illinois Congressional Delegation with Senator Obama until 2:20 in the morning, when we celebrated the third victory. We're hoping that things will be wrapped up tonight. First time in 88 years a World Series championship for the city of Chicago.
BLITZER: That would be the Chicago White Sox. Thanks very much, Senator. Good luck.
DURBIN: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: And you can connect to your computer if you want a lot more on the Harriet Miers nomination. We're going to get a lot more from our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton. She's standing by with the situation online. Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, discussion and resources online on Harriet Miers. A lot the bloggers today discussing the "Washington Post" story about Harriet Miers' two speeches in question in the 1990s.
The "Washington Post" has them downloadable on the site. You can read them for yourselves. Lots of conservative bloggers not too happy about the information contained within those speeches there.
Going back to those conservatives, TheTruthLaidBear.com is compiling all the bloggers and where they stand on Harriet Miers. It's something that we have reported a lot on here. The Republican National Committee reached out to some of these conservatives to try and bring them into the fold. But TheTruthLaidBear is compiling a list who's supporting, who's opposing, and who's on the fence. Opposing, 257, well outweighing those in support of this nomination right now.
Wolf?
BLITZER: Abbi, thank you very much. And we're just getting this in to CNN from our White House correspondent, actually from Paul Corson, one of our producers over at the federal courthouse. A court official is now confirming to Paul Corson, our producer, that a meeting has taken place just a little while ago between the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald -- he's investigating the CIA leak -- and the chief judge, Thomas Hogan, who's overseeing this grand jury investigation.
The spokesman telling CNN -- and I'm quoting now -- "I can confirm a meeting took place in the chief judge's chambers after the grand jury met today." He declined to say what they talked about, but said the two men met for about 45 minutes. We don't know what all of this means, but we're going to try to find out and bring it to you as soon as we get it here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Much more coming up on this story.
Also still ahead, how damaging is the CIA leak to President Bush's image? We'll take a closer look at the potential political threat to the president.
Plus, still, thousands of American tourists trapped in hurricane- ravaged Cancun, and they're desperate to escape. That story, much more, when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff is urging south Florida residents to be patient despite their frustrating struggle to get gas, water and other supplies. We're expecting to hear from him very soon, he's at a news conference down in Opa Locka, Florida. We'll go there when Chertoff starts talking.
He toured the state's emergency operations center in Tallahassee earlier today with the Governor Jeb Bush. We expect the Homeland Security secretary to make comments this hour. You can see the microphone there. We'll bring it to you when he does.
In the disaster zone itself, patience has been hard to come by. CNN's Allan Chernoff in joining us now in Oakland Park, Florida, Broward County for more. What's going on there now, Allan?
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, as we wait outside of the town community center, people have been driving by and asking, as this woman is right now, asking when the shipment of ice and water will be coming. What they're seeing here is just a sign that says closed until the next truck arrives.
People waiting for essential supplies here. When the power is out in this town, there's no water purification. So people do need to have water. They need to have ice just to try to retain all the perishables that are still sitting in their refrigerator. And an example of the power situation, you see right here, a power line down where earlier today, officials from the town and volunteers as well as National Guardsmen were handing out water and ice. They had three huge truckloads that came over here. Thousands of people did get ice, did get water. As a matter of fact, at one point, early in the morning, there were eight truckloads that came by, but only two of those were supposed to arrive here. The other six were sent over to Sunrise, Florida, which is about 20 miles to the west. The town officials here didn't want to be selfish, so they sent those supplies over. Now they could use some of those supplies. They've requested another truckload, but haven't heard yet exactly it's coming in.
Wolf, even despite the problems today, this is a huge improvement from yesterday, when people were waiting four to five hours, finally, to get a few bags of ice. So a big improvement today. And I should also note, these guys who are leaving right now, the National Guardsmen, they really have been working their tails off. They were working six hours straight handing out that ice, handing out the water. So a really good job done by the volunteers, the National Guardsmen, and the town officials.
Wolf?
BLITZER: The mood out there, as we see live pictures of the secretary of homeland security, Michael Chertoff walking over to the microphones in Opa Locka, Florida. There he is right now. I think he's about to start speaking. As we wait for Michael Chertoff to update everybody on what FEMA is doing -- actually, let's listen.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I'm delighted to be here, though I wish I could be here under different circumstances. I had the opportunity to meet with Governor Bush up in Tallahassee, see the emergency operation center up there.
Came down here, first and foremost, to make sure that we are able to offer all the aid and assistance that the federal government has to the state and local officials who have the responsibility for the process of recovering from this hurricane. This has been a big storm. It is exactly -- I'm told there's been some loss of life, there's been a lot of property damage.
I know there are people who are in need of food and water in certain parts of South Florida. Ice is a big issue. Power is a very big issue. We are in the process of doing everything within our power to get resources down to the state of Florida, working with state and local officials to get it distributed all over the afflicted areas.
We also, frankly, have a lot to learn from Florida. Florida still is the state-of-the-art in disaster management. The governor and local officials here have put together a phenomenal team, and we've been working not only from the very beginning of this storm but from well before the storm as part of a unified command so that we are one team working together to help people down here.
And although I think that, obviously, everybody's patience has been taxed as we've been waiting to have food and water and ice distributed throughout the community, I think there's been a tremendous effort in meeting the very high standard that the governor set for himself and for his team in terms of getting things out there for people in need.
We've got more work to do. We ask everybody's patience and forbearance. As the governor said a little bit earlier today, neighbors still have to help neighbors. There are some who cannot help themselves, and those of us who can take care of ourselves ought to reach out to others who need help.
And I look forward to continuing to work with mayors and other community leaders here to make sure we are doing everything we can to provide necessary resources for South Florida's recovery from the effects of Hurricane Wilma.
Chief Paulison, I know, is somewhat familiar to those of you from South Florida. He was jostling to make sure he could come back down here as possible to say hi. And I'm going to let him say a few words.
Chief?
R. DAVID PAULISON, ACTING DIRECTOR, FEMA: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. It's good to be home. I'd like to be home under better conditions. But, you know, our hearts go out to those who have lost family members and those who have lost their homes. And we just have a lot of sympathy for them. We have set up a truly precedent setting system with the state of Florida.
We have partnered with the state like we have never done before in another disaster, and we're going to continue to do this in future disasters with other states. We're walking hand in hand.
We set up the points of distribution, the PODs, within 24 hours. We've never been able to do that before.
And one thing we did anticipate was the amount of commodities that we're going to flow through those. We have almost 80 of those PODs set up now. We're going to continue to set up more.
But we are working around the clock...
BLITZER: All right.
David Paulison -- he's the acting FEMA director -- with his boss, Michael Chertoff, the secretary of Homeland Security, showing a federal presence on the ground in South Florida in the aftermath of Hurricane Wilma.
There have been some serious problems distributing food, water, ice, gasoline, other essential items in South Florida; 2.5 million people still without power right now.
We'll monitor that news conference in Florida, update you as news develops. Up next here in THE SITUATION ROOM, more on the CIA leak and the White House. If top officials are forced to resign because of indictments, who will replace them? We'll take a closer look.
And later -- the supreme battle over Harriet Miers. Is the White House winning or losing the image war? We get some expert advice for the president in today's "Strategy Session."
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Without an extension from the court, the CIA leak grand jury has two more days to meet and they're likely to be long days for the Bush White House -- the threat of indictments weighing on the administration and on the public's opinion of the president.
Our political analyst Bill Schneider is standing by with more. Bill?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, there's a reason why the CIA leak investigation poses a particularly serious threat to this president. It goes all the way back to the 2000 campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Ethics played no small part in getting President Bush elected.
BUSH: So when I put my hand on the Bible, I will swear to not only uphold the laws of our land, I will swear to uphold the honor and dignity of the office to which I have been elected, so help me God.
SCHNEIDER: Message to voters afflicted by scandal fatigue: I'm not like Bill Clinton.
When President Bush took office in 2001, nearly two-thirds of Americans considered the new president honest and trustworthy. That number rose to more than three quarters in the months following 9/11.
At the end of 2003, the CIA leak investigation began. President Bush sounded all for it.
BUSH: If somebody did leak classified information, I'd like to know it, and we'll take the appropriate action.
SCHNEIDER: Most Americans still considered President Bush honest and trustworthy when he took office for a second term last January.
By July, President Bush's language was getting a little more lawyerly.
BUSH: And if someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration.
SCHNEIDER: By last month, half the public said President Bush was not honest and trustworthy.
As the investigation reaches a conclusion this week, the president's response is...
BUSH: I'm not going to comment about it.
SCHNEIDER: The investigation has taken a toll and not just on the president. Three years ago, nearly three quarters of the public gave top Bush administration officials high marks for ethical standards. Now the public is split. Negative marks have more than doubled. And Americans now believe Democrats would do a better job than Republicans in dealing with corruption in government.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: The best principle of damage control is make sure the worst information gets out first. Right now, an anxious Washington fears the worst news may be yet to come.
Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Bill. Thank you very much.
You can bet that behind the scenes White House officials are exploring worst-case scenarios so they'll be ready for indictments when and if they come.
Our senior analyst Jeff Greenfield has been looking into the administration's contingency plans -- based on some history, I suppose, Jeff?
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: That's right, Wolf. You know, when you look at an administration that is under siege and you look back and see what have other administrations done, and you talk to some significant Republicans, as I've done this week, the first thing they point to is try to get a new team in that has new credibility.
Well, when Ronald Reagan was besieged by Iran-Contra, he fired Don Regan. He went before the public and made an unusually candid admission of error and brought in Howard Baker, the former Senate majority leader, well-respected in the Congress, well-respected in the press.
In Clinton's first term, even before Monica, when things looked awry, he brought in Leon Panetta, former congressman, director of Office of Management and Budget, as an old hand.
And you hear people talking about the need in the Bush administration for some new faces with credibility. I've heard the name Rob Portman, former congressman, now the trade official.
The second thing, and the trickier one, Wolf, is how do you change the agenda? Can you restart a second term after Social Security's kind of gone aglimmering (ph), tax cuts are in abeyance? And the third thing -- and I'll stop here and let you push me on this -- is make sure you keep your base. Perhaps the most important rule above all of them is don't lose your base when you start getting in trouble.
BLITZER: Well, he's lost part of that base on the Harriet Miers nomination to the Supreme Court already, and he says at least for now he's sticking by his woman.
GREENFIELD: Exactly the point I was hoping you would ask me, frankly, because my first thought was, well, if there's one silver lining to possible indictments and the sense of a White House under siege, maybe it's that Harriet Miers gets confirmed because the White House says to Republican senators, look, you can't inflict another wound on a damaged president.
But if you look at the way that Clinton survived Monica, by keeping his base; when you look at the way Reagan survived Iran- Contra, by keeping his conservative base, then maybe what has to happen is for the White House to say, OK, we need you people to stay with us. You know this is the guy you elected. You're unhappy with him about spending. You're unhappy with him about immigration reform, which has split the conservative base.
This may be the case where one way or another -- and there are various scenarios floating around -- the price that Bush pays for getting the conservatives to rally around the White House in this time of crisis, whether there are indictments or not -- it's still a time of crisis -- is to say, well, we're going to give you a credentialed clear-cut conservative and we'll find Ms. Miers something else to do.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Jeff Greenfield, thank you very much. Jeff Greenfield is our senior analyst.
Coming up, no decision yet from this man -- that would be the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald. Will he hand up indictments in the CIA leak? We'll take another look at the White House strategy in this scandal when we return.
Plus, the other top story here in Washington -- the fierce fight over Harriet Miers. Is the Bush administration losing the supreme battle over their nominee?
Much more coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: They may sound like storylines from a political thriller, but they are very, very serious subjects -- the suspense over who blew the cover of an undercover CIA officer's identity and a chorus of opposition to a Supreme Court nominee.
With me, two guests: Terry McAuliffe, the former chairman of the Democratic Party; and Terry Jeffrey, editor of Human Events. Thanks to both of you for joining us.
Let's start with the CIA leak story. It's a difficult strategy for the White House to pursue right now, not knowing what to expect, Terry.
TERRY MCAULIFFE, FORMER CHAIRMAN, DNC: We don't know what's going to happen. This is a prosecutor who's going to take his time. He's going to do it right. I think you saw Republicans out this week, beginning to try and go and undercut the prosecution -- that's not going to happen, this guy is a career prosecutor -- if he does bring indictments, which we should known in the next couple of days -- very serious indictments.
BLITZER: Let me just press Terry on this. He's known -- from the Republican conservative perspective, he's no Ronnie Earle, the district attorney, the prosecutor in the Tom DeLay case.
TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, HUMAN EVENTS: Well, presumably, we haven't seen an indictment yet, Wolf. But listen, I have to point out a big irony. I saw your interview with Dick Durbin earlier. I thought it was excellent. I was very glad you confronted him with what he said in 1997.
BLITZER: '99.
JEFFREY: 1999 - during the Bill Clinton impeachment. But a tremendous irony happening in this town right now. Six years ago, after Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice and a grand jury, virtually on party lines, the Democrats stood with him. They said, stay in the White House, even though you're under indictment.
Now, we haven't seen what this prosecutor is going to do, we don't know if anybody will be indicted, yet we see the Democrats already like a pack of wolves going after people in the White House who may have committed no crime.
BLITZER: Terry, do you want to respond to that? He was not formally indicted, but he was impeached. And, it was almost strictly a party line in the House of Representatives, he was acquitted in the Senate
MCAULIFFE: Well, there's one big difference between what you see with Fitzgerald and you see with Ken Starr. Ken Starr leaked every single day. Every single day, you saw leaks out of the grand jury -- leaks like a sieve, totally different scenario here.
This is a career prosecutor who has taken his job very seriously. But what this does -- this is disarray in the White House. You have the president's top officials, who may or may not be indicted, but clearly they've been distracted. It now leads a conspiracy.
This is all about a leak, about a war that they wanted to justify with faulty information. That's the bottom line. It now leaks all the way up to the vice president of the United States of America. It's a conspiracy about trying to justify a war that shouldn't have occurred. JEFFREY: I saw the quote you had from Senator Kerry saying that President Bush had lied to send the nation to war. Senator Kerry used the exact same intelligence information that President Bush did. But, Senator Kerry voted to authorize the war. Senator Kerry went down to the floor of the Senate and gave a speech, laying out all that information.
Any American today that wants to know the facts about the intelligence, it's on the record. They can go to the Web site of the Senate Intelligence Committee and read their report.
An important bit of information there about Joe Wilson. The story that Joe Wilson wrote in the "New York Times" and was handing out to reporters was inaccurate. He said that when he came back from Niger, he gave information that rebutted the idea that Iraq sought uranium in Niger.
In fact, the Senate Intelligence Committee report says that Wilson came back, said in Niger, that the former prime minister of that country had been contacted by an Iraqi delegation, and that former prime minister thought that delegation came to him seeking uranium. The Intelligence Committee report said that, in fact, reinforced the thinking of intelligence analysts that, in fact, Iraq had been seeking uranium. Joe Wilson's story was false and that has been lost in this whole debate.
BLITZER: In his article in the "New York Times", he said it was probably -- had some sort of phrase, that it was probably not true, that Niger, that the Iraqis were trying to get enriched uranium from Niger. But, let's move on before we ...
MCAULIFFE: We didn't go out and try and destroy a woman's career. This was a CIA covert operative. They outed her to try to discredit her husband. They went to their famous conservative lap dog, Bob Novak. They gave him the story, he reported the story. Big difference.
BLITZER: But, you don't know for sure that whoever outed her knew for certain she was a clandestine officer, that she was what they call a non-official ...
MCAULIFFE: Well, clearly, we read the "New York Times" yesterday that the vice president with George Tenet, the head of the CIA, talked about this woman who worked for the agency. I don't care what her job was. They shouldn't have used the spouse to try and attack the credibility of Joe Wilson. It was wrong and I don't care what her job was.
JEFFREY: Let me agree with him this far. The White House should have come straight after Joe Wilson. They should have said the information is false. If you go back and look at that timeline, George Tenet put out a weak statement in the Web site that rebutted Wilson's story without naming him. They should have come right out and said, this is the truth. They should have stood by Niger intelligence. The British, by the way, in their condition, hasn't backed down from it. They stand by it. BLITZER: But you do remember that the White House said after those words were uttered in the State of the Union address, that that was a mistake, they shouldn't have done it. And the then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley said, I take responsibility for letting the president say that.
JEFFREY: Absolutely. They handled it wrongly. The way they went about leaking stories to reporters was wrong. It's a big question whether it was illegal, but they had absolutely a right to rebut Joe Wilson's story, because Joe Wilson's story was false. Anybody that wants to see the facts, go to the Senate Intelligence Committee and read that ...
MCAULIFFE: All right, couldn't agree with him more. They should have gone after Joe Wilson, they went after the wife. This is the same group of people that went after John McCain in the South Carolina primary, attacked Max Cleland for patriotism. This is how these Republicans do it. They get Bob Novak, they're all together on this. Now you see what has happened. They shouldn't have gone after the wife, it was wrong.
BLITZER: I quickly want to pick Terry -- this Terry -- Terry Jeffrey's reaction to these statements that we're getting from Republican senators on Harriet Miers. Senator Jeff Sessions, Alabama, "I am uneasy about where we are". Senator Norm Coleman, Minnesota, "I certainly go into this with concerns". Senator Trent Lott, Mississippi, "There is a good bit of concern". "She", Miers, "needs to step it up a notch", that's Lindsey Graham.
Those are statements from Republicans, conservatives, strong supporters of the president. Is this nomination going forward with confirmation hearings?
JEFFREY: It's in big trouble, Wolf. Those statements were made before the "Washington Post" had the story this morning, as you reported earlier, posted on its Web site, these speeches Harriet Miers gave in 1993. I think when Republicans, conservative senators read those speeches, they're going to say in 1993, this lady was a liberal. She was a liberal and she backed judicial activism. She's got a lot of explaining to do to Republicans.
BLITZER: All right, we have to leave it right there. Terry and Terry, not going to confuse the two of you. Thanks to both of you for joining us.
Up next, in many high-profile cases, defendants are often indicted on the cover up rather than the crime -- the initial crime. We'll take a closer look back at some very high-profile cases when we return.
And later, we'll head back live to South Florida, where millions of people are still without power. They're waiting in long lines for fuel and food.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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BLITZER: If indictments are issued in the CIA leak probe, most legal experts believe the special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald would pursue perjury charges. And students of past political scandals wonder if history is about to repeat itself.
Here now our national correspondent Bruce Morton. He's standing by in Washington.
BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, do people sometimes get convicted not of the crime itself, but of the cover-up? Well, yes.
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MORTON (voice-over): Alger Hiss, then Congressman Richard Nixon's query, as the House on American Activities Committee hunted communists spies wasn't convicted of spying but of perjury, lying about it.
Various figures in the Iran-Contra scandal during the Reagan administration -- Oliver North, Rob McFarland, and John Poindexter -- were convicted of cover-up charges, lying to Congress and so on, though McFarland was pardoned, and North's and Poindexter overturned on appeal.
RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In one of the most difficult decisions in my presidency ...
MORTON: Half of Richard Nixon's White House staff -- or seemed like that anyway -- went to prison on Watergate cover-up charges. H.R. Haldeman, John Ehrlichman, Charles Colson and so on. And eventually Nixon himself resigned to avoid impeachments, not from the burglary -- there was no evidence he had advance knowledge of that -- but for his role in the cover-up.
Bill Clinton.
WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It depends upon what the meaning of the word is, is.
MORTON: Clinton was impeached for giving false testimony to the grand jury investigating Paula Jones' sexual harassment lawsuit and for obstruction of justice, though the Senate acquitted him.
Pete Rose was banned from baseball for life, not for betting on games but for refusing to admit he bet on games.
And Martha Stewart went to prison for making false statements about her stock dealings, not for the dealings themselves.
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MORTON: And, of course, they finally nailed Al Capone for tax evasion, not for any of the really heavy stuff he'd done.
Prosecutors, Wolf, sometimes take what they can get. BLITZER: Good to remember. Thanks very much. Bruce Morton reporting for us.
CNN's Andrea Koppel is joining us once again from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories making news right now. Andrea?
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hi again, Wolf.
Well, the militant group Islamic Jihad is claiming responsibility for a suicide bombing in the northern Israeli city of Hadera today. At least five Israelis were killed when the blast tore through a crowded marketplace. Twenty-eight others were wounded. In a telephone call to CNN, Islamic Jihad said the attack was in response to the killing of one of its leaders on Monday. It is the first suicide attack inside Israel since August.
We start off in Liverpool, England where an Underground train derailed today. All 90 passengers were evacuated with no injuries. A spokesperson for the rail company said the train was traveling at a very low speed when it jumped off the tracks between stations, but police said the cause was a mechanical failure.
Catastrophe looms large. That is what a United Nations official said about the situation in Pakistan. The officials are begging the world to give more aid to the victims of the earthquake. As temperatures drop, they say millions of lives are at stake, and today Pakistan raised the official death toll, Wolf, to more than 54,000 people.
Wolf.
BLITZER: What a sad story that is. Thank you very much, Andrea.
Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, mapping out of the bird flu threat. We'll track the cases and the growing fears that many people eventually will be infected. We're watching that story.
And up next, all eyes on the special prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald. And the blogs are boiling, at least a lot of them, over the CIA leak anticipation.
Stay with us.
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BLITZER: The CIA leak story has consumed the blogosphere for over two years. As special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald presumable wraps up his high-profile investigation, the possibility of indictments has the Internet buzzing.
Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner is here. She is taking us inside the blogs right now with more. Jacki?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, what's on the blogs right now is the same speculation we're all going through. They're just watching and waiting. But the blogs have been around a long time, certainly longer than the mainstream media has been paying such close attention to them. So we wanted to show you the guys that we take a look at, and the women that we take a look at, and how to find the archives so you can go back and take a look at some of the early, early posts.
Now, this is primarily a liberal story, as you might imagine, but Tom Maguire at justoneminute.typepad.com, a conservative blogger, has been following this. He first posted on it back in the day, I'll say the same day the Bob Novak column came out. His archives are on the right-hand side of his -- oops, that's not going to work -- on the right-hand side of the site and you can click through to that.
The other one that I wanted to show you is Jeralyn Merritt at talkleft.com. She is a criminal defense attorney, and she posts on this extensively. You can see her archives if you click on the Valerie Plame link on her site. You can see how extensive that is.
Real quickly, some of the other ones I wanted to show you, besides those two. The Huffington Post -- this is a new blog but Arianna Huffington and Lawrence O'Donnell have both been all over this story.
Another one for you is Larry Johnson, who is guest blogging at Talking Points Memo Cafe. That is an offshoot blog that popped up again earlier this year.
And finally wanted to show you The Washington Note. This is Steven Clemons. He's been the go-to Bolton guy, but lately has come up with some posts that have really grabbed the attention of the blogosphere world. So just some people to check out and check in on as we wait.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Jacki.
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