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The Situation Room

Libby Arraigned; Charles, Camilla on Charm Offensive in the U.S.

Aired November 03, 2005 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. I'm Wolf Blitzer and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Happening now, his normal audience was the president and the vice president. Today, the gathering included photographers, lawyers and a judge. Louis Scooter Libby goes from strategizing policy at the White House to a criminal defendant crafting a plan to stay out of prison.

Also here in Washington, pomp, pageantry, and yes, PR. Prince Charles, his wife Camilla, on a major charm offensive in the United States. How it working on this day?

And should the hopes of stopping illegal immigration hinge on building a fence along the entire 2,000 mile U.S./Mexican border and costing billion of dollars? We'll tell you about the idea. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Not guilty. That's the plea from Lewis Scooter Libby. The newly indicted, recently resigned chief of staff to the vice president, Dick Cheney, made his first appearance in court today right here in Washington. He was arraigned on obstruction of justice, perjury and making false statements, all charges for which Libby claims innocent, and all charges, he says, he intends to fight.

Amid the larger picture of who leaked the name of the CIA officer, several smaller stories of the legal aches, political pains, and the strain on long-standing friendships unfolding this hour in Washington.

Only in the last hour, the president of the United States arrived in Argentina for the Summit of the Americas. Is he hoping for a little relief from growing problems here in Washington? Joining us, CNN national correspondent, our chief national correspondent, John King. Dana bash is covering the president's trip in Argentina. Let's go to Argentina first -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the president is here in Argentina for a summit, and the biggest issue for him here may be how much or whether or not his troubles back home affect his foreign policy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): A 10.5 hour flight to a destination 5,500 miles from Washington -- escaping to the world's stage is an old trick of the presidential trade.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It does put him in a different venue, talking about other issues and it permits him to portray himself as doing the country's business.

BASH: Ronald Reagan, amid Iran-Contra, tried to polish his image by showing leadership at Soviet summits. But when problems at home reach a fever pitch, distance usually doesn't help.

QUESTION: Mr. Starr says it has no effect on his investigation. Is that your view, sir?

BASH: The Lewinsky scandal followed President Clinton around the globe. Mr. Bush himself was dogged by questions throughout Africa in 2003, after admitting his State of the Union case for confronting Iraq included flawed intelligence.

QUESTION: Can you explain how an erroneous piece of intelligence on the Iraq/Niger connection got into your State of the Union speech?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No matter where you are, whether it on a foreign trip or sitting at the Oval Office or sitting at your ranch in Texas, there's no evading that responsibility.

BASH: The president hopes to use the Summit of the Americas to tout the benefits of Democratic reforms and push Latin countries to allow more free trade.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up, please.

BASH: But an open question is how much the indictment of a senior White House official in a CIA leaks case hurts Mr. Bush's creditability in conducting foreign policy. His national security adviser took that one carefully.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scooter Libby is a fine person, and he has served the president and the vice president well. The president makes foreign policy, and it is the president who's going on this trip.

BASH: Mr. Bush is used to encountering protests aboard where his policies are unpopular. Massive demonstrations are planned in Argentina. Now, some experts believe his weak standing back home, may embolden other leaders to challenge him more freely. But others predict he may find some unexpected understanding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These presidents have troubles, too. These other folks have troubles too. President Bush's counterparts are probably going to feel a great deal of empathy, frankly, for him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: It is no doubt a difficult time, but the president is trying to convey a good mood, good spirits. Wolf, he even joked about government leaks during a roundtable with international reporters.

BLITZER: Dana Bash reporting for us from Argentina. She is travelling with the president.

How might the CIA leak case be effecting the relationship between the president and the vice president? Our chief national correspondent, John King, is joining us now with more on that part of the story -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the judge in the Libby arraignment today said the next hearing will be in February. Look for a trial to play out in a congressional election year. Scooter Libby on trial, but a problem as well for his boss, Dick Cheney.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The case against Scooter Libby is a trial of sorts for his former boss, as well.

JAMES THURBER, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: The vice president has been very close to this president. He's been a stealthy leader behind the scenes. He's now out in front of the media, which hurts him because that's not his style. It will hurt, therefore, the president.

KING: In the Libby indictment, special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald alleges the vice president was among the first to tell Libby administration critic Joe Wilson's wife worked at the CIA. And on a July 12, 2003 flight with Cheney and other officials, Libby sought advice on how to deal with questions about Wilson, and that later that same day, Libby discussed Wilson and his wife with two reporters.

THURBER: I think the vice president will claim executive privilege, and try not to appear in court. But if he does appear in court, it is likely to draw him even closer to this controversy.

KING: Cheney's role in this administration has always been controversial. A defender of presidential powers, whether the issue be his secretive energy task force, or resisting outside investigations into the 9/11 attacks, and Iraq war intelligence failures. The leading advocate of toppling Saddam Hussein.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The issue is that he is pursuing nuclear weapons.

KING: Former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft said the vice president is a changed man. For the worse.

"I consider Cheney a good friend. I've known for him 30 years, Scowcroft told the "New Yorker," "a Dick Cheney I don't know anymore."

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R), MISSISSIPPI: I've known him quite well since our days in the House together in the late 70s.

KING: Senator Trent Lott scoffs at talk his friend, the vice president, has changed, and at talk Cheney is now a liability and will lose some of his unrivaled West Wing influence. LOTT: The president relies on him, and I sleep better every night knowing that Dick Cheney is serving as vice president of the United States. That role will not diminish, because it's too vital a role. It's too critical.

KING: But Democrats see an opening, criticizing Cheney in this letter for promoting two deputies to fill Libby's role. "Instead of cleaning house," the Democratic senators wrote, "you simply rearranged some of the furniture." The prospect of an election year trial focusing on the vice president's office has some in Washington whispering perhaps Cheney will step or be nudged aside. Not a chance, say those who know the relationship.

NICK CALIO, FORMER BUSH ADVISER: No. If you know him, and if you know the president, the answer is flat out no. And that's, you know, one of the great secondary sports in Washington, is, you know, speculation about the vice president resigning for one reason or another. It won't happen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Now the vice president's poll numbers are down, meaning a majority of Americans now say they disapprove of his performance in office, but, Wolf, aides insist there has been no diminishing all of his relationship with the president and no diminishing of his appeal within the Republican Party. Just tomorrow, the vice president will be out raising money for some House candidates.

BLITZER: John King reporting for us. John, thank you very much.

There's a developing story unfolding in Texas right now. CNN's Zain Verjee joining us from the CNN Center in Atlanta with details. What's happening, Zain?

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, we're hearing that a bus has crashed in Royse City, Texas. A number of football players are injured. You are looking at live pictures here of this school bus. CNN affiliates are reporting several injuries. It's difficult at this early stage to know exactly how many people have been injured.

But this accident has occurred about 40 miles northeast of Dallas, the bus ending up really on its side near Royse City. Players in uniform earlier were seen lying on the ground, many of them receiving medical attention. Others were just standing nearby. A second bus, Wolf, came to the scene and transported those who were not hurt away from the scene.

This particular location is on a curve off of farm to market road 1777 in rural Collin county. We are going to bring you more information as we get it. But there we can see people standing around, and many of them probably have already received the medical attention, if they've needed it. Again, a bus crash in Royse City, Texas. Some football players have been injured. We don't know exactly how many -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Zain. We'll stay on top of this story, update our viewers as we get more information.

Here in Washington, Britain's Prince Charles and his wife Camilla the Duchess of Cornwall, are in the final leg of a very, very busy day. Right now, they are attending a reception cross-town in their honor over at the British embassy in Washington. That follow visits to the National Institutes of Health in nearby Bethesda, Maryland; The National Building Museum here in Washington; as well as a visit over to Georgetown University.

Today, the Duchess gave her first every public speech in this country, and later, Prince Charles talked about their visit to New Orleans for tomorrow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMILLA, DUCHESS OF CORNWALL, UNITED KINGDOM: With the support of the doctors, and the vital (ph) research teams, work together to prevent future generations worldwide from suffering the pain and that (INAUDIBLE) of osteoporosis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRINCE CHARLES, UNITED KINGDOM: My wife and I were utterly horrified to see the terrible scenes of destruction brought by the hurricane across New Orleans and the surrounding area. Tomorrow, we will have the opportunity to meet some of the brave and resilient people now trying to rebuild their lives and to pay tribute to the astonishing efforts of emergency workers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: For more on the visit, we are joined now by royal watcher Deborah Strober. She's joining us from New York. Deborah, thank you very much for joining us.

What do you make of the visit so far?

DEBORAH STROBER, ROYAL WATCHER: Well, I think, Charles is demonstrating that he has some gravitas. And Camilla is subdued, but very royal looking.

BLITZER: What is their major goal in this visit, week-long visitor so to the United States?

STROBER: I think it's two-fold, Wolf. I think, for Charles, it is to demonstrate that he could be king one day, to put aside the notion that he has loopy ideas and therefore he shouldn't succeed to the thrown, and to bring Camilla forth as a possible queen, even though now she don't have -- she won't have that title as of now, but perhaps that's what he's aiming for.

BLITZER: There are some who suggest, Deborah, that the more Camilla steps forward, the less visible Diana becomes and she emerges out of Diana's shadow. Is that your sense? STROBER: I would hope so, because it is rather unfair to compare the two women. I mean, Diana was a young girl when she came to the public's attention, and Camilla's a mature woman.

BLITZER: Deborah Strober is the co-author of "The Monarchy: An Oral History of Elizabeth II." Thanks, Deborah, very much for joining us.

STROBER: My pleasure.

BLITZER: Let's go -- stay in New York. Jack Cafferty is up in New York. He's got a question for our SITUATION ROOM viewers. What's the question, Jack?

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How do you like these late hours, that's the first question?

BLITZER: Get used to it.

CAFFERTY: Get used to it, right? It's going to be a permanent arrangement

BLITZER: You've got to get used to it. I have to get used to it. We both got to get used to it.

CAFFERTY: All right. Take a look at this Billboard, Wolf. This is for Paramount's new movie called "Get Rich or Die Trying" staring 50 Cent. And it shows the rapper, whose real name is Curtis Jackson, with a gun in one hand and a microphone in the other. A lot of people unhappy with these billboards, saying that they glorify gun violence and they market Jackson as a hero to inner city teens.

In an editorial today, "The New York Daily News" points out that in real life, just this year Jackson has been involved in taunting rival rappers. He's been ordered to take anger management therapy and two of his side men have been busted for having unlicensed guns.

At nineteen, Jackson was arrested with 36 vials of cocaine and dozens of packets of heroine. After complaints in Los Angeles, Paramount removed some of the billboards there. At least two of them were near schools.

Now, some New Yorkers want Paramount to do the same thing here in New York. Paramount did not return our calls for a response. We tried all afternoon to reach somebody. No luck.

So, here's the question, "do Paramount's billboards for rapper 50 Cent's new movie send the wrong message?" E-mail us at Caffertyfile@cnn.com, or you can go to Caffertyfile.com/cnn.

BLITZER: Jack, and for viewers who aren't familiar with what we are talking about, about these late hours for us, Jack, we're going to be on every weeknight, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. THE SITUATION ROOM, 7:00 p.m. Eastern in edition to 4:00 to 6:00 Eastern. "ANDERSON COOPER 360," moves to 10:00 p.m. Eastern to midnight. That starts Monday. All those changes here at CNN. Coming up, we are following a developing story in Texas. You saw it here. A bus with high school football players on board overturns. We will update you on what's going on in Texas.

Also, DNA breaks a cold case. A woman confronts a man who allegedly attacked her 30 years ago. Mary Snow has the story.

Plus, all the rage in Paris, a week of violence and fire uncovers the tensions over race.

And a little bit later, writing out the war. Our own Walter Rodgers on life with the Seventh Calvary. He'll join us live. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: You're back in THE SITUATION ROOM. Welcome back.

A piece of evidence from 1973 and a random background check for a gun purchase just last year. Prosecutors say a DNA test has connected the two and cracked a very cold case. Now, they are going to try to convict a rape suspect. CNN's Mary Snow is joining us from New York. She has details -- Mary.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, that suspect is now on trial here in New York. Prosecutors are hoping that science will provide the conclusive piece of evidence in a rape case left in limbo more than 30 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): Kathleen Hamm is a rape victim who does not want her face and identity shielded. She says she has nothing to be ashamed of. She wants justice which is why she faced the man charged with raping her at knife point in June of 1973.

Now 58, Hamm testified about the nightmare that's haunted her for more than three decades, saying, "I haven't had a good night's sleep in 32 years. I'm an insomniac."

This is the second time Hamm has testified against her alleged attacker: Fletcher Anderson Morrell. The first time was in 1974. That trial ended in a hung jury.

The case had gone cold. But that changes after Morrell filled out an application at a Georgia gun shop in 2004 that revealed outstanding arrest warrants. Authorities say red flags were raised, and DNA tests were done, matching Morrell's DNA to DNA evidence they had on file.

Authorities suspect Morrell of committing for than two dozen rapes in Maryland, New Jersey and New York.

In April, prosecutors in New York said they reopened the case of the attack on Kathleen Hamm. ROBERT MORGENTHAU, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It'll send a chill through a lot of defendants to know that after 32 years you can still test for DNA.

SNOW: Prosecutors say a chance of a match like this are one in a trillion. They found the DNA on a pair of underpants, that is one of the only pieces of evidence that was still left in the case. Morrell's lawyer says his client is not guilty, and he doubts the DNA.

MICHAEL RUBIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It's old. It's 32-years-old. It's not this certainty that the DA wants everyone to believe it is.

SNOW: Defense attorney Michael Rubin is relying on memory and in court asked Hamm to look at her attacker and identify him. After hesitation, she did, but said, she didn't recognize him. She has testified that she was attacked with a sheet over her head.

Asked if she recalled anything about the attack 32-years-ago, she said some of it is burned in my memory and will never go away.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: Now outside of New York, authorities in New Jersey and Maryland are working to bring more charges against Fletcher Morrell in connection with more than 20 rape cases -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What a story. Thanks very much. Mary Snow reporting.

Let's head back to the CNN center. Zain Verjee once again joining us with a closer look at other stories in the news, including that developing story out of Texas -- Zain.

VERJEE: Yeah. We want to show you some of the live pictures coming from Royse City in Texas where a bus has crashed and several high school football players have been injured. We don't know exactly how many people have been injured, but you can see a medical and emergency teams are on the ground assisting those who have been injured.

This is a junior varsity team where one official says the players were being taken to a game with Navado Community and this is what happened. The bus, as you can see, from these pictures, has ended up on it's side near Royse City. There was a second bus that came along, essentially to evacuate people who were not hurt.

This is an area near a curve off farm to market Road 177 in rural Collin County. There were players in uniform, a little bit earlier that could be seen lying on the ground and receiving medical attention. It seems though that the situation is under control. And we'll bring you more details when they get it and when we are able to confirm how many people have been injured.

The head of the Senate Judiciary Committee says confirmation hearings for Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito will begin on the ninth of January. President Bush had urged senators to confirm his pick for the high court by December. But, Committee Chairman Arlen Specter says that that's impossible, citing the sheer volume of writings Alito's produced in his 15 years as a federal judge.

In New York, authorities have arrested the son on Miami's police chief, John Timoney. The son, 25-year-old Sean Timoney is accused of trying to buy 400 pounds of marijuana from an undercover federal agent with $450,000 in cash.

He's going to have a bail hearing tomorrow. The Miami police chief Timoney used to work for the New York Police Department, Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Zain, thank you very much. What a story that is as well.

We're staying on top of all of those stories.

Still to come, here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

A new plan to help you skip those security lines at the airport. All it takes is a little money and a background check. We'll have that story.

Plus, in defense of Libby. Does he have a chance of beating charges of perjury and obstruction of justice? We'll ask two top lawyers.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the hot shots coming in from our friends over at The Associated Press. Pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow.

In Argentina, anti-Bush protesters hit the streets. The president of the United States is attending the Americas summit over there right now.

In Columbia, a murdered hero. A police major cries for her husband, who was killed, who was killed while trying to prevent a kidnapping.

In Venezuela, mock invasion. Soldiers occupy a beach, practicing for a foreign invasion.

And in New York City, take a look at this. The Rockettes dance behind Santa Claus on the opening night of their famous Christmas spectacular. They danced to a recorded soundtrack, though. The musicians are in a labor dispute.

Those are some of today's hot shots. Pictures often worth 1,000 words.

Checking business stories making headlines tonight. A major victory for Merck and company. A New Jersey jury says the drug maker did not mislead doctors and consumers about the danger of using Vioxx. Merck pulled the pain killer last year after a study showed an increased risk of heart attacks and strokes with long-term use. Today's verdict came in a lawsuit by a man who blamed his heart attack on Vioxx. Merck lost an earlier case. Thousands of suits have since been filed.

Airline passengers nationwide may now get a chance to avoid extra security screening by paying a fee and agreeing to a background check. The program, tested at five airports for more than a year, would let most passengers avoid pat-downs. The Transportation Security Administration says passengers who sign up may be allowed to pass through special screening lanes, keeping their shoes and jackets on.

And the Vioxx verdict and reports on labor productivity helped boost the stocks today. The DOW Jones industrial average gained almost 50 points, about half a percent. The tech-heavy NASDAQ composite index rose almost 16 points, about three-quarters of a percent. The S&P 500 index advanced more than five points.

Just ahead. A controversial plan to stop the influx of illegal immigrants into the United States. We'll show you what one U.S. Congressman is proposing.

Plus, disturbing e-mail, showing a top federal official apparently out of touch during the Hurricane Katrina crisis. We'll show you what they say.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. More now on our top story, the arraignment of Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the vice president's former chief of staff, now charged in connection with that CIA leak case.

Joining us to talk about it, from New York, the former independent counsel, Robert Ray. And from Chicago joining us, the former federal prosecutor, Richard Ben-Veniste. Gentlemen, thanks very much for joining us. Both lawyers, now in private practice.

Richard Ben Veniste, let me start with you and outline what the defense is, according to Libby's attorney, Joseph Tate. He says, "as lawyers, we recognize that a person's recollection and memory of events will not always match those of other people, particularly when they are asked to testify months after the events occurred." The faulty memory defense, how solid is that?

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, it becomes more tenuous, Wolf, when you have evidence from six or seven individuals who provide testimony that they had conversations about the subject matter before Mr. Libby had any conversations with journalists, and that's at the heart of the perjury and false statement case.

And that's somewhat exacerbated by the fact that these individuals by and large are all friends and supporters of Mr. Libby. The vice president, who is expected also to be a witness, is a very, very close friend of Mr. Libby.

So, on the one hand, that cuts against him. On the other hand, they can be expected to try to help Mr. Libby as best they can if there is a trial.

BLITZER: Robert Ray, what do you think about the faulty memory defense in this particular case?

ROBERT RAY, FORMER INDEPENDENT COUNSEL: Well, Richard is right. It's not just one witness. There are several, and I think even beyond that, it's not just about recollection, it's also going to be about contemporaneous records, about which we know a little, but probably not all that will be eventually presented at trial, and that would include, for example, notes taken at the time by any number of these witnesses, as well as contemporaneous e-mails, and other documents.

BLITZER: Richard, the Libby defense team hired a new lawyer, a high-profile Washington attorney named Ted Wells today, and he emerged from the arraignment, saying this -- listen to what Ted Wells has said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED WELLS, LIBBY'S ATTORNEY: He wants a jury trial. We do not intend to try this case in the press. Mr. Libby intends to clear his good name by using the judicial process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What about a jury trial in the District of Columbia, Richard Ben-Veniste? That's going to be hard, given the nature of politics in Washington, D.C., finding a jury that isn't going to be -- with a lot of Democrats in this town is going to be hard.

BEN-VENISTE: I don't think when it comes down to it, Wolf, that this is going to be an issue that will depend on partisan politics. I've tried jury cases for more than three decades, and I have great confidence in the jury system.

Ted Wells is a very capable, experienced defense lawyer. He knows his way around. He will provide the best defense for Mr. Libby. It's an extremely challenging case. And if it goes to trial, I think Mr. Libby will give it -- will get the best shot.

BLITZER: What do you think about Ted Wells, Robert Ray, versus Patrick Fitzgerald, the special counsel, the prosecutor in this case?

RAY: They are both very fine trial lawyers, and I know that from personal experience. I was with Mr. Fitzgerald in the U.S. attorney's office in New York for six and a half years. And I have had Mr. Wells as my adversary in Washington, D.C., in the Espy case. He is a formidable trial lawyer. It's also quite a signal here, as a result of Mr. Libby looking to Mr. Wells, that you should expect that they intend to, you know, absent some extraordinary circumstance, they intend to go to trial.

BLITZER: Well, what about that? Because there has been speculation, Richard Ben-Veniste, about some sort of plea deal, although our senior legal analyst, Jeff Toobin, says if that would have happened, it was almost certainly going to happen before the indictment, as opposed to after the indictment. What do you say about a possible plea bargain?

BEN-VENISTE: Well, there's always the opportunity, although there is an opportunity prior to indictment, quite clearly at any time thereafter there can be circumstances that change, pretrial motions that don't go the way the defense wants them to.

But I think that it's less than likely that anything other than a felony count would be offered to plead, and, you know, that has a substantial number of ramifications, including suspension of Mr. Libby's law license, and the ignomy of being a convicted felon.

So pleading to a felony charge will be a huge step.

On the other hand, he has shown great loyalty to the vice president over the years. There may be issues that transcend simply going to trial, and there's always in the background the potential for a presidential pardon.

BLITZER: Unfortunately, we have to leave it there, gentlemen, but we will continue this conversation down the record. Robert Ray, Richard Ben-Veniste, thanks very much for joining us.

RAY: Thanks, Wolf.

BEN-VENISTE: Thank you.

BLITZER: A congressman from Louisiana today released a series of e-mail from former FEMA Director Michael Brown. They paint a picture of a director apparently in over his head and out of touch. Our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton is checking the situation online -- Abbi.

ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, 26 pages of these e- mails available for you to read at cnn.com. They are a sampling of e- mail correspondence to and from Michael Brown, and they make for some pretty interesting reading.

This one here, two days after the storm, when Michael Brown was informed that the situation in New Orleans was past critical. He responded, "Anything specific I need to do or tweak?" Also, lots of references to clothing as he appeared on television. In one, he describes himself as "a fashion god."

Now, these e-mails and documents that have generated a lot of interest online. The congressman that released them at this Web site had so many hits on that Web site today that it almost shut the Web site down.

We should also mention that we contacted FEMA for a response from Michael Brown, but did not receive one -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Abbi, thank you very much.

Up next, the new plan, a dramatic plan, some calling it an extreme plan, to stem the tide of illegal immigrants coming across the border from Mexico. We'll have details of a proposal some say will cost billions of dollars.

Plus, French cities being rocked by violence, right now for the eighth night in a row. We'll show you what it's all about. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. In tonight's "The World in 360," the focus is the ongoing trouble in France.

CNN's Zain Verjee is joining us at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta with more on this and other news. Zain?

VERJEE: Wolf, the French government is in full crisis mode to contain the stubborn violence erupting just outside of Paris.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE (voice-over): After a week of fire and rage, neither force nor reason has brought an end to the violent riots outside Paris. Now, one police union official suggests imposing a curfew, even brings in the French military what some have called, a civil war.

Today, the French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, held emergency meetings with cabinet ministers and vowed not to give into the violence.

DOMINIQUE DE VILLEPIN, FRENCH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Cars have been burned. A kindergarten burnt down, a destroyed police station. Such things happened last night, and I'm not even talking about demonstrators shooting real bullets. All of that is unacceptable.

VERJEE: Also today, officials confirmed angry mobs of youth shot at police and firefighters, burned car dealerships, and hauled rocks at commuter trains between Paris and the Charles de Gaulle airport, halting traffic on the line. One man says a school was burned.

REV. ANTON COLLINS, CIVILIAN: I heard a loud noise. Then, me and my niece, we opened the window, and we saw the school was burning. We saw smoke and we were watching and we saw, it was burning.

VERJEE: It began with the deaths of two teenagers of African background last Tuesday. They were accidentally electrocuted in a power substation where they were hiding to escape police that they thought were chasing them.

But, a report released today, said police were investigating a suspected burglary and they were not chasing the boys.

Also part of the problem, many of the suburbs are poor and home to gritty, crime-infested ghettos. In this Seine-Saint-Denis region, northeast of Paris, unemployment is sky high. Residents have the lowest average income in Paris and many of the ethnic immigrants say France does not embrace them as equal citizens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE (on camera) Wolf, in that region, officials say nine people have been hurt and more than 300 cars have been burned. Wolf?

BLITZER: Zain, thank you very much.

Up next, embedded with the 7th Calvary. Walter Rodgers charged across the Iraqi desert with the troops of Custer's old regiment. Our former CNN colleague has a brand new book out about his experiences. He's standing by to join us live here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

And a billboard for his new movie shows the rapper 50 Cent with a gun in one hand and a microphone in the other. Critics say that image isn't worth a dime. Do the billboards send the wrong message?

Jack Cafferty going through your e-mail. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Illegal immigration is a complicated problem facing our country. But, there's a new push here in Washington for a solution that's easy to understand and hard to miss. A fence stretching all across the U.S./Mexican border. Some opponents find it offensive. Others say it would be ineffective.

CNN's Chris Lawrence is joining us now from the border in California with Mexico. Chris, what's going on?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, let me just set the scene. That's the Mexican highway right behind me. Off in the distance, downtown San Diego. It's no secret that there are parts of the border where you can have one foot in Mexico and another in the United States.

Anyone that can walk or crawl can get across here. There are parts of the border that are already separated by fences along certain sections. But nothing to the extent of what this Congressman is proposing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE (voice-over): It conjures up all sorts of images, from the Great Wall of China to the security fence put up by Israel. Congressman Duncan Hunter wants to see a giant fence built along America's border with Mexico, 2,000 miles long. The California Republican says illegal immigrants are hurting the American way of life and endangering national security.

REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CALIFORNIA), ARMED SERVICE CHAIRMAN: Now, today, we have hundreds of thousands of people coming across the land border between the U.S. and Mexico. It's not an immigration problem anymore. It's a security problem.

LAWRENCE: Critics, including a leading Latino advocacy group, say a massive border fence would cost billions of dollars, and not do much to keep illegal immigrants out. A small portion of the border already has some fencing and the results are debatable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see that man climbing over the wall? I stood right at that spot one day, doing a story on illegal crossings. All of the sudden, I heard the wall rattle, a man appeared at the top of it. I said, hola. He said, hola, jumped down and walked into America. Congressman, how will your wall stop that? They've got a wall, it doesn't work.

HUNTER: If you have the impediment, that is the fence, you stop what we call the old Bonsai attacks where thousands of people would come across at the same time.

LAWRENCE: Hunter's fence plan is new fuel for the already combustible debate over immigration. Some Americans are taking matters into their own hands, patrolling the Mexican borders themselves, armed with paper badges, walkie-talkies and video cameras.

Politicians are taking new initiative, too. The Democratic governors of New Mexico and Arizona declared states of emergencies along their borders this summer.

This is not necessarily a Democrat versus Republican debate, but it is likely to be a flash point in the coming campaigns for Congress and for president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: That's because illegal immigration crosses over into so many other issues, from the quality of schools to health care. And some say unless you attack the underlying causes of illegal immigration, you can't build a fence big enough or tall enough that someone, somewhere can't climb. Wolf?

BLITZER: Chris Lawrence, reporting for us.

Chris, thank you very much.

Most veteran reporters will tell you covering wars is unglamorous and very dangerous. My next guest, former CNN correspondent Walter Rodgers has covered some of the most important stories directly from the front lines.

His new book is entitled, "Sleeping with Custer and the 7th Cavalry." It's about the three weeks he spent embedded with the 7th Cavalry in 2003 while advancing from the Kuwaiti border toward Baghdad.

Here's a look back at some of Walter's experiences.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, FORMER CNN CORRESPONDENT: The pictures you're seeing are absolutely phenomenal. These are live pictures of the 7th Calvary, racing across a desert. You've never seen battlefield pictures like these before. What you are watching here is truly historic television and journalism.

This is a live, as it happens, realtime war. Again, a few seconds ago, the Iraqis fired another rocket-propelled grenade over our heads.

It was the army which assigned me to the third squad during the 7th Cavalry and that was extremely fortuitous. It was like sitting in a poker game and drawing four aces.

We are hearing incoming, but we're not sure what it is.

Goodbye, we've got to dive for vehicles, we think. See you, bye.

This giant wave of steel that grows every hour, is ever pushing northward, ever pushing toward the Iraqi capital.

This Iraqi soldier that you are looking at has been lying between these two metal bars for more than a few hours now. Increasingly, as he was given water and after the IV went into his arm, it was as if...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, dramatic, dramatic images all of us remember from Walter Rodgers, the early days, the first few days of the war against Saddam Hussein.

Walter Rodgers is in THE SITUATION ROOM. Thanks very much for joining us, Walter.

RODGERS: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Here's a passage from your book that is so compelling, and I want you to elaborate for us what you meant. "I have a compelling need to validate what I experience, especially as I begin to wonder what really happened, and more so now as things seem to be going so wrong in Iraq. I find myself doubting the reality or at least the severity of the ambushes, the ferocity of the firefigths, and the aching discomforts of the campaign."

Are you beginning to think you really didn't experience all that?

RODGERS: Yes, that's very true, Wolf. And this began -- the memories began to erode within a month or two after the war. And I began to question, was it as bad as I remembered it? So, I began calling Jeff Barwise (ph), my engineer, Charlie Miller (ph), who was my cameraman, and said, was it really that bad? And they said, oh, yeah, and it was worse. And then I'd get in touch with some of the soldiers with whom I was in combat -- very fine American soldiers, like Paul Wheatley (ph), one of the sergeants you just saw there, and they say, oh, yes, it was even much worse.

So I felt the need to put it all down, so the American public would know in this book just what fine soldiers they had and how much more intense the fighting was on the route to Baghdad than we were able to report at the time. BLITZER: I remember, I was in Kuwait on the eve of the war, and I saw you just as you were getting ready to go in. You went in with all the embedded reporters, wearing the full body gear. You were prepared for weapons of mass destruction. You had the gas mask. You had everything. You were convinced they were going to be used.

RODGERS: We believed that. As a matter of fact, I bet one of the sergeants, Sergeant Brahein (ph), sergeant major in Apache troop 7th Cavalry. I bet him $5 that Saddam's troops would do it at the end of the war, when we had cleared the Karbala Gap and were on our way to Baghdad, and it was pretty clear that there was no longer any opportunity to use the weapons of mass destruction. I had to pay him the $5, and he made me autograph the $5 bill for his daughter.

But every soldier there believed it, and every senior officer believed that they had them and would use them. And in point of fact, we operated on that premise.

BLITZER: We just assumed that was going to be the case. How influenced were you -- because you write about this in the book -- by the deaths of fellow journalists, our friends, like David Bloom of NBC News and others?

RODGERS: Yes. That was -- I begin talking about Bloom in the opening chapter of the book -- actually, the preface. I was influenced -- you know, you expect soldiers to be killed, but you don't expect your colleagues to be killed. And I lost a really dear friend there, Elizabeth Neuffer, who was with "The Boston Globe." She was killed almost immediately after the war on a highway in Iraq. And I have never really gotten over that, because she and I were pals. We'd show up in Sarajevo together, throw our arms around each other. CNN lost two very fine members of its staff in Baghdad, two Iraqis who worked for CNN. There was one lovely Shiite producer we had there, really fine people, and they died, and I still sort of wonder what they died for.

BLITZER: "Sleeping with Custer and the 7th Cavalry." Walter C. Rodgers, an embedded reporter in Iraq. An excellent book. Thanks for joining us, and thanks, for importantly, for writing it.

RODGERS: Thank you.

BLITZER: Walter Rodgers, thank you very much.

Let's find out what's coming up at the top of the hour. Paula Zahn standing by -- Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf. Just when we moms and dads thought we had heard it all, yet another child-raring controversy. Someone must have thought of this one to drive insecure moms nuts. Get this: If you never put your baby in diapers and hiss at them, among other things, 20 times a day or so, can you actually potty train them in just six weeks?

We're talking about little bitty babies, babies as young as six weeks old, and people are serious about this. See what you think, and you'll hear from a top pediatrician as well as a lot of moms practicing this new way of what they call, Wolf, elimination communication.

BLITZER: All right, we'll be watching. Thank you very much, Paula. That's coming up in only a few minutes.

Still ahead here on THE SITUATION ROOM, a controversial movie billboard. Is it sending the wrong message? Jack Cafferty sorting through your e-mail. He's coming up with "The Cafferty File" right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Jack Cafferty's been going through your e-mail. Let's bring Jack in from New York -- Jack. Jack, you there?

CAFFERTY: Wolf, I've lost your audio. I assume you can hear me, I hope you can.

There's a new billboard for Paramount's movie "Get Rich of Die Tryin'," that's causing some controversy.

The billboard shows the rapper 50 Cent with a gun in one hand, a microphone in the other, and the critics say that this billboard glorifies gun violence. After complaints in Los Angeles, Paramount removed some of the billboards there.

Now, some New Yorkers want Paramount to do the same thing here. Paramount did not return our calls for a response. The question we're asking is -- do Paramount's billboards for rapper 50 Cent's new movie send the wrong message?

And here's some of what you've written. Tracy in Washington writes: "If your kids or you for that matter have so little moral compass of your own that you have to take cues from billboards, then you have far deeper problems than removing the billboards would solve."

Michael in Orlando, Florida writes: "The problem is not the billboards. The problem is the violence-loving, gun-toting rap culture that 50 Cent and his movie try to glorify. Getting rid of the billboards doesn't fix that problem."

Mickey writes: "Why is it OK to show James Bond carrying a gun with a half-naked woman in a seductive pose? Or how about Jason from 'Friday the 13th' carrying a bloody hatchet? Or even soldiers carrying high-powered rifles? He's a guy carrying a microphone and a handgun. Oh, I forgot. He's a scary black guy carrying a microphone and a handgun. Have to ban it."

Rebecca in Kansas City, Missouri writes: "Rapper 50 Cent has every right to express any message he wants to. The question is: Should a huge, wealthy and powerful corporate entity like Paramount be using its resources to glamorize and sell that message? I say no."

And Steven writes: "Those billboards need to be replaced as soon as possible with the various new times of 'THE SITUATION ROOM.' It is absolutely the best new show."

We thank you.

BLITZER: Steven, thank you very much. Can you hear me OK, Jack?

CAFFERTY: I can now. In the beginning, I'd lost you there, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Let's remind our viewers that we're going to be on permanently now, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, as we are right now, 7:00 to 8:00 Eastern, as well as starting Monday, 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern. So you and I will be working a little bit later with Zain and Ali and everybody else.

Jack, thank you very much.

CAFFERTY: All right, Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll talk tomorrow.

That's all the time we have right now. Don't forget, we'll see you tomorrow. Paula Zahn standing by in New York. Paula, pick it up.

ZAHN: Hey, congratulations on your new time slot, neighbor.

BLITZER: Thank you. Good to be with you.

ZAHN: Thank you. Delighted to have you in our neighborhood.

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