Return to Transcripts main page
The Situation Room
Gamma to Florida?; Wildfires in SoCal
Aired November 18, 2005 - 16:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's 5:00 p.m. here in Washington and you are in THE SITUATION ROOM where we are just getting word of a tropical storm that may, and the important word is this, may, hit Florida by Monday. Our Chad Myers standing by with the latest.
Also happening now, it's 2:00 p.m. in Ventura, California, under threat from a fast-growing wildfire, thousands of acres burned. Some residents are fighting to save their homes, others have fled all together. We'll take you there live.
And it's 1:00 a.m. already, Saturday in Iraq. U.S. troops there and around the world depending on body armor for protection. Now there's word that the military is recalling tens of thousands of vests. We'll show you why.
And it's 7:00 a.m. Saturday in Japan where health officials are questioning the safety of the best-known treatment for bird flu. A dozen children who took it, and died. Now U.S. health officials are weighing in.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You are in THE SITUATION ROOM.
We've got a developing weather story potentially, potentially significant. Let's immediately go to our severe weather expert, Chad Myers. He's standing by at the CNN Weather Center. What's going on, Chad?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Wolf, what we have -- I just lost contact with you, but what we have is a developing tropical storm. It is a tropical storm now. It has the name Gamma. The storm itself could move very close to the same track that Wilma took just a few weeks ago, as the storm comes in, just to the west of the Cayman Islands, very close to Cancun, and then turning to the right -- possibly on up into Florida by Monday.
In fact, here is the forecast track. Sustained winds right now are 40 miles per hour. That sustained wind though is forecast to get stronger. In fact, it's forecast to get to be 65 miles per hour. Now that, in fact, is not a hurricane. But it is very close to hurricane strength. And many of the models do have it stronger than that before it actually makes landfall. And that could be as early as about 4:00 on your Monday afternoon -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Can you hear me Chad, OK?
MYERS: I can. I'm back, I have a new battery and I can hear you good. BLITZER: All right. At what point do people in South Florida have to start getting worried? At what point, for example, do I have to tell my mom it's time to come back to Washington?
MYERS: I would say that's a good call for tomorrow afternoon, maybe 6:00. As always, with forecasts that just come out, as we finally get a forecast track, the first one from the Hurricane Center, they are not always right, they are not right on the money. We have to look at it for a while. We have to see where it's really going.
The forecast could turn, in fact, to the south, move across Cuba, and then out toward the Bahamas -- that is a high possibility -- rather than the forecast that is taking it right now right across the South Florida lines.
So why don't you give it until Saturday afternoon? And then we'll call it for South Florida then.
BLITZER: Hurricane season is still in play right now until the end of this month, is that right?
MYERS: You know, Wolf, it's not a switch. You don't really throw a switch when the waters get warm and get cold. This has been such a warm year for the Caribbean, we could still get a tropical system December 5. A date on a calendar is irrelevant for when the waters get cold enough. When the waters get cold, hurricanes can't develop. That could be a little later this year.
BLITZER: All right, Chad, we are going to check back with you on this developing story. Thanks very much, Chad Myers, reporting for us.
Switching on to another weather story we are following. They are watching the wind in Ventura, California, where more than 1,000 firefighters right now are battling a wild fire that's charred some 2,000 acres already. Homes have been threatened, some residents are evacuating. And everyone is waiting to see what happens towards sunset when the winds could pick up once again.
Let's go out to CNN's Ted Rowlands. He's live near the fire lines right now. What's the latest, Ted?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the fire has been kicking up in different areas. And right now we are looking at a spot on the other side of this hillside where you can see some now white smoke. About five minutes ago, it was black smoke. But they've been hitting it hard with the helicopters. They are going to get some more water for those helicopters. I assume they'll continue to concentrate there.
If you look to the other side, you can see where this fire ripped through this region. And the scary thing is, is that you have fires burning in different areas of this hillside community in Ventura, California. And it literally changes by the minute. And they are having to deploy the air attack in different areas as is needed. This scorched area a couple hours ago was full of flames, as you can imagine, and all of these homes were in danger. Many of these folks were evacuated.
People had been aware of the fire since about 3:30 this morning when it started. So a lot of people had a lot of time to gather their valuables. Many of those people fled and left.
The neighborhood that we are in now is pretty much out of danger because all the fuel has been burnt up. They are coming in. The concern now is on the other side of the hill. And as you mentioned, the concern is the weather. The winds nonexistent right now. But that has been changing by the minute as well. And they are keeping an eye on the winds. Firefighters hope to get this contained tomorrow but they expect it will be a long night tonight.
BLITZER: Ted Rowlands, thanks very much.
Let's bring in helicopter reporter J.T. Alpaugh, he is joining us on the phone right now with more on these fires in Southern California. J.T., give us a perspective. You've covered dozens of these kinds of fires over the years, how bad is this one?
J.T. ALPAUGH, HELICOPTER REPORTER: Wolf, this one is pretty bad. Right now the winds are still very high. They seen to be dying off a little bit here before the afternoon, but compared to some of the others that we have seen, this is a very large and threatening fire. About 1,000 firefighters and over 2,000 acres threatening these multimillion dollar homes throughout this Ventura County area. So we're keeping an eye on it. Right now we're down getting some fuel.
But you can see that the winds aren't as heavy right now as we push into this shot. You can see the smoke kind of laying down a little bit. No visible flames. Air tankers coming in, making these drops of Phoscheck (ph), laying down these retardant lines in front of this fire line, trying to keep this fire at bay as it smolders out, hopefully as firefighters continue the fight, hoping these Santa Ana winds die down so they can continue to get a handle on the fire -- Wolf.
BLITZER: When they are dropping the liquid, whether water or whatever, from these planes, the helicopters, do they have enough equipment in place to deal with this?
ALPAUGH: Absolutely. They have plenty of equipment out here. Lots of the tankers are out here dropping Phoscheck. They have -- the air tankers -- the Ericson Skycrane helicopters dropping up to 2,600 gallons of water in these protected areas near these homes to put these fires out. So they have got bulldozer equipment. They have got strike teams of camp crews that are setting up and digging fire lines.
So they are making fire breaks wherever they can, laying down retardant, laying down water. As you can see on the left side of your screen, doing dandy (ph) bucket drops full of water to protect these structures. So as far as the personnel and the equipment available out here, they are on the scene doing the best they can with the equipment they have and starting to get a handle on this very large fire -- Wolf. BLITZER: J.T. Alpaugh, the helicopter reporter, helping us cover this story. J.T., we're going to check back with you soon. Thank you very much.
Let's bring back CNN's Tom Foreman, he's here in THE SITUATION ROOM with us, to take a closer look at this terrain that's out there. It is pretty rugged.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's rugged and it's big. The area we are talking about for the fire warning is really massive. And it has to do with the speed of the winds and the fuel that's potentially there for it.
I want to zoom in here and show you a little bit of the fire zone. If you look at the fire zone, when we look on this, you can see that this is all -- this entire area here, and just this area alone, if we went in and measured just the part you can see here, and it's bigger than this -- look at this, we go here, here, down here, down over here, something like this, we are talking about in just that area alone, 7,000 square miles, 404 miles around it. That's just a tiny portion of it.
This is why this is such a big problem. And the population in this area, we are not talking about a tremendous number of fires here right now. If I turn off the zone and I show you the actual fires, you see that there are some scattered through here. It's not an impossible amount. But what we are talking about is fires occurring in a very windy area with steep canyons going in and out where the wind can funnel and move very quickly.
And lots and lots of people. Southern California, about 16.5 million people. That's about half the population of the entire country of Canada living right there. That's why they always take these things seriously, and when those flames are blowing around these houses, why they have to watch them so much.
BLITZER: Tom Foreman, thanks very much. CNN's Tom Foreman, here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Now to some fiery words of terror believed to be from al Qaeda's top man in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. On an audio tape posted on a Web site often used by al Qaeda and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, grisly threats of violence directly leveled against Jordan's King Abdullah and an explanation for last week's terror attacks in Amman. CNN's Brian Todd is joining us now, he's got more -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, on that audio statement, as you said, believed to be from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, he claims the group did not intentionally target civilians in the deadly November 9, hotel bombings in Amman, Jordan. According to the speaker, the targets were U.S., Iraqi, and Israeli intelligence agents working inside those three hotels.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ABU MUSAB AL-ZARQAWI, AL QAEDA IN IRAQ (ATTRIBUTED) (through translator): Three lions left their dens in Baghdad and headed to the heart of Amman to carry out the blessed attacks against three targets known to be headquarters of Jews, Crusaders, and other enemies of God.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
TODD: CNN cannot independently verify that this is in fact Zarqawi speaking, but our experts say it sounds like his voice. And the audio was posted on an Internet message board used by radical Islamists in the past, including Zarqawi's group. U.S. officials say the CIA is conducting technical analysis of the tape.
When we asked if members of any intelligence agency were among the casualties in the Amman attack, U.S. counterterrorism officials would not comment. Most of those killed were Jordanian civilians attending a wedding party at the Radisson Hotel.
Now this would be the fourth statement issued by Zarqawi's group since the Amman bombings. Middle East and terrorism experts say that is unusual for Zarqawi. But they say in this case, he might be more eager to brag about the attacks in Amman, and he might also want to take a verbal shot at Jordan's King Abdullah.
Now in part of the tape, the speaker does more than that. In the speaker's words, targeted toward King Abdullah, he says -- quote -- "You will not escape your fate. You descendant of traitors, we will be able to reach your head and chop it off."
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian, Brian Todd reporting for us. Thank you very much.
We are watching a new tropical storm that's developing in the Caribbean right now. And it may -- operative word, may -- be moving toward Florida, once again, perhaps on track to hit by Monday, very similar to the most recent hurricane that moved through Florida. We are watching the story. We'll check back with Chad Myers and others to see what's going on.
Also, a fresh wave of suicide bombings in Iraq. Almost 100 people killed in attacks across the country. Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is going to be joining us live from Baghdad with more on this story.
And there are new developments in the CIA leak probe. We'll show you what the special prosecutors is doing. Does it mean more indictments are coming?
Plus, the private journal of Prince Charles, why it's at the center of a legal action right now he's taking against a British newspaper.
You are in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: In Iraq, more suicide attacks, more destruction, and more deaths. Most of those killed today were civilians including many children. When attackers walked into two mosques and blew themselves up, there were those deaths that occurred.
Let's get some details now from our CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He is joining us in Baghdad. Nic?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the first attacks came in Baghdad this morning at about 12 minutes past 8:00 -- the attack focusing on the al-Hamra Hotel. That hotel occupied or lived in by Western journalists and Western workers here in Baghdad.
One car bomber drove his white van towards the security wall outside the hotel, detonated the explosives. That created a hole in the wall.
A second suicide bomber drove his car trying to get through that hole in the wall, through that dust and debris. He couldn't get close to the hotel, detonated his car right there. It collapsed apartments in apartment buildings in the area. Six people were killed, two children and one woman among them, 40 people wounded according to police.
But by far the deadliest attacks came in the town of Khanaqin, close to the Iranian border, about 85 miles northeast of Baghdad. Two suicide bombers walked into two different mosques at the noontime prayers, the busiest time of the week. Today's the holy day. There were a lot of people in there praying, those noontime prayers. More than 90 people, we are told, by local officials, have been killed, many of them children, we are told. It's traditional for young children to accompany their fathers on Friday to those prayers.
Wolf.
BLITZER: How sad is that? Thanks so much, Nic Robertson in Baghdad.
My next guest was part of the U.S. military unit that was called in for relief assistance in one of those mosques' bombings. First Lieutenant Ray Shisler of the 101st Airborne is joining us on the phone from Tikrit. Lieutenant, tell us what it was like, what happened?
LT. RAY SHISLER, 101ST AIRBORNE: Wolf, we were actually outside of the town when it occurred, helping some Kurds that were in need of some medical supplies and just a couple of other things. And we understood that something had happened in the town. So we actually had moved into town and were surprised to see that the Iraqi police and Iraqi army had already done most of the lion's share of work. The United States military moved in, but it was good to see the Iraqis dealing with this on their own, the Red Crescent as well as the locals rushing to help their fellow brothers.
BLITZER: And what was the reaction among the average Iraqis? This was a Shiite mosque, I take it, in Tikrit, which is a largely Sunni area, is that right?
SHISLER: Well, Wolf, let me correct, I am in Tikrit, and that's where I'm at now. However, like Nic was saying, the bombing occurred on the Iranian border at a Shiite mosque that is -- it's only like about a mile from the border. And there are Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds that live in that area. Unfortunately, I can't confirm if it was Sunni, and you know, some of the AMZ network guys that did it. However, what we saw was the destruction to places of worship, you know, things that we find back home to be of honor, and they are destroying them over here, unfortunately.
BLITZER: Well, Lieutenant, thanks very much.
(CROSSTALK)
SHISLER: ... again, the Iraqis coming to the rescue of their own. They're really standing up and doing -- they're doing a lot better. I was here a few years ago, and they didn't have the networks set up that they do now.
BLITZER: Lieutenant Ray Shisler, 101st Airborne, obviously serving in a second tour in Iraq, appreciate your service. Thanks very much for joining us.
The U.S. military, is recalling 18,000 body armor vests the Pentagon says don't meet ballistic standards. Still, Army and Marine officials are saying that the troops using the vests were never in any serious danger.
Let's go to the Pentagon, CNN's Kathleen Koch standing by. What's going on, Kathleen?
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the recall covers only about 1 percent of the body armor vests being that are being used right now out there on the battlefield. Still, this is very disturbing information for soldiers and Marines who rely on these vests to keep them alive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH (voice-over): A chilling insurgent video of a sniper attack on an American medic in Iraq. But Stephen Tschiderer was wearing a body armor vest made by Point Blank Body Armor.
STEPHEN TSCHIDERER, MEDIC: The vest definitely saved my life. We wear another plate inside of it which was what actually stopped the round. So that's why I'm here talking to you today.
KOCH: Still, the Pentagon is recalling more than 18,000 such body armor vests issued to troops worldwide. It says analysis conducted this September of vests that had just been brought back from Iraq found they did not meet Army and Marine Corps ballistic standards. According to Army and Marine officials, the vests had failed initial ballistics tests, but were mistakenly issued to troops in 2000 and 2001. The recall covers the vest shell made of nylon and ballistic- resistant material, but not the ceramic plates inside. Army officials say it's unclear how many of the vests are still in use. Those recalled are older, first generation vests, while the services are now issuing seventh generation vests. Military officials say there are enough newer vests in stock to replace the faulty ones.
Pentagon officials say troops wearing the vests were not in any danger since they did meet minimum standards, and could still stop shrapnel and small arms fire.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH: A few minutes ago Point Blank Body Armor, which makes the vests involved, sent CNN a statement, I'll read part of it to you. It says the company takes -- quote -- "great pride in the quality, design, and workmanship of its body armor vest". And it says that "to the company's knowledge, none of the hundreds of thousands of vests it has manufactured have ever failed in the field."
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Kathleen. Thanks very much. Kathleen Koch reporting for us.
Coming up, we're following two developing weather stories right now. Word that a tropical storm is heading perhaps toward Florida within days. We are watching that story. And, 2,000 acres and counting in California. We'll bring you up to date on a fast-moving wildfire that has people hustling to get out of its path.
Also ahead, Katrina evacuees in New York who learned they could be back on the streets soon. Where will they go? What's going on?
Stay with us. You are in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We are following a developing story. Tropical Storm Gamma, it's the 24th recorded storm of this record hurricane season here in the United States.
Let's bring in our severe weather expert Chad Myers who is watching it. Update our viewer who are just tuning in, Chad, what's happening with Gamma?
MYERS: The latest update as of 5:10, Wolf, just now raised it to a 45 mile-per-hour storm. It was 40 just until then. This storm, Tropical Storm Gamma, the third letter of the Greek alphabet, Alpha, Beta, Gamma, hope we don't get Delta, but if we do, that's the next one.
By Monday, it is forecast to still be a tropical storm, 65 miles per hour, but it could hit South Florida. That's the forecast. The models we always talk about, Wolf, we always talk about these things, they don't have time right now to digest the fact that this is a tropical storm yet. We'll have to let this settle down. By morning this track could change.
BLITZER: Let's make a turn now to the fires that are happening in Southern California, Ventura County, specifically. What's the latest on that?
MYERS: The winds have died off just a little bit. The forecast, though, is still for the Santa Ana winds to blow significantly tonight. What I have on my radar, Wolf, behind me is actually the coolest thing. We can actually pick up the little particles that's in the air -- the little particles of smoke in the air here in Ventura County into Oxnard. The winds still coming in. And as they come in today, will blow that smoke completely offshore and then eventually those fires will go out. But until they do, we will be able to pick up the radar -- the particles in the air. The radar not knowing it's not a rain shower. Radar goes out there, looks for something, it's finding smoke instead of rain drops.
BLITZER: Severe weather indeed, all over the place. Chad, thank you very much. We'll be checking back with you.
Let's check in with Abbi Tatton, our Internet reporter, right now. She's watching what's happening in California as well. Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, some amazing pictures of this fire turning up on the Web taken by local residents in Ventura. This is the view here from Ventura Harbor looking back at the fire, uploaded onto the site flickr.com by Patrick Talon (ph) who has been taking photos and putting them on this site all through the day since he was woken up early this morning by the sirens.
He says that his apartment is right in the middle of that smoke there. Other pictures also on this site, further inland, you could see the smoke here, the fires threatening these hillside homes. And if you look closely at this one, you can actually see the flames in the middle.
Other photos on this Web site taken from the roofs of some of these homes that are threatened by residents who are looking and watching very carefully.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, thanks very much, Abbi.
Many of the evacuees from Hurricane Katrina and Rita fled all the way to New York City. Hundreds of them are being housed in New York hotels right now. But FEMA now says it will stop paying for their rooms on December 1. Today tempers flared as those evacuees came face to face with FEMA officials.
Let's go to New York, CNN's Mary Snow is standing by. Mary?
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, all told, FEMA says about 53,000 evacuees are still living in hotels across the U.S., and as you just said, plans to stop paying for hotel bills December 1. Here in New York, the mayor is now asking the federal government to extend its deadline for evacuees who fear they may be soon left out on the street.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): A different kind of storm is brewing for victims of Hurricane Katrina.
MONICA PARIKH, NEW YORK CITY DEPT. OF HOMELESS SVCS.: While it's not the city's goal, the city has homeless shelters available for people.
(YELLING)
PARIKH: We don't want anyone to go to a shelter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody's going to a shelter.
PARIKH: No one should go to a shelter, but each person will have to work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you permit her to complete her statement? We are here for answers.
SNOW: But the answers were not the ones Katrina evacuees wanted to hear. Forced from their homes in the Gulf region when Katrina hit, 487 people, 115 of them children by official count, are still being housed in New York City hotels. They've been notified that in two weeks FEMA stops paying for their hotel rooms. They met with city and FEMA officials about what to do next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have the money to get an apartment in New York City. And I'm told by FEMA that the only way they are going to help me is if I send them a lease agreement from the landlord.
SNOW: FEMA says its goal is to get people into temporary housing before the holidays. But the transition is not simple.
KEN CURTIN, FEMA: There are things we can fix and things we can't fix. And I want to be honest and acknowledge the weakness of our system. But there are also things that we can make work.
SNOW: But many at the meeting say the system is not working for them, even though FEMA is continuing to offer assistance for rent. For one thing, they say it's hard to find affordable housing. Others say they've yet to receive any checks from FEMA.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Now, on its end, the city is trying to help the evacuees find rent-stabilized apartments averaging about $800 a month, which is a tough find here in New York. The city also says if the evacuees can't find an apartment by the 1st of December, it will take over payments for those hotels, but only for a month.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Mary, thank you very much. Mary Snow in New York.
Coming up, Iraq, should our troops stay or should they go? Debate heating up on Capitol Hill, as well as right here in our own studio as two very outspoken lawmakers go head to head.
And later, safe and effective? The Food and Drug Administration takes another closer look at Tamiflu.
Stay with us. You are in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now to the war of words on Capitol Hill, where House Republicans are seeing if Democrats will stand behind an outspoken colleague.
Democratic Representative John Murtha of Pennsylvania yesterday called for the quick withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq. Today, GOP leaders set out for a quick vote on a resolution to withdraw troops immediately. They expect an easy defeat to put the matter to rest. It isn't putting the hot debate to rest, though.
I was joined -- joined earlier today by Representative -- Republican Representative Duncan Hunter of California -- he's the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee -- and his Democratic counterpart, New York Congressman Charles Rangel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Congressman Rangel, Congressman Hunter, thanks to both of you very much for joining us.
I will start with you, Chairman Hunter. No one in Congress has more credibility with the military, at least over the years, than Congressman Murtha of Pennsylvania. What -- what do you say about his proposal now to withdraw troops from Iraq within the next six months?
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA), CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, I like John Murtha personally. He's a friend. But I think that the proposal is absolutely a disservice to the mission and a disservice also to all those folks that are over there sacrificing in -- in very difficult circumstances, making this mission work, Wolf.
And I think the message -- if the message comes out of the United States, which is happening right now through the -- the news media, that, somehow, John represents the position of the United States Congress, in opposing this mission, or terminating this mission in Iraq, this mission of freedom, that's the wrong mission. And we should absolutely make sure that we get on record as reversing that and not being supportive of it.
So, I like John. He's absolutely wrong on this one.
BLITZER: What about that, Congressman Rangel?
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D-NY), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I really think that we are blessed in this country to have someone like John Murtha that can stand up, and no one can call him a coward or saying that he's undercutting the military, or to say that he's unpatriotic. He has earned the right to express himself.
We are not saying that this is going to happen, but God knows it's time to happen. What is this mission that we are talking about? How do you win freedom? Who are we fighting? Who are the terrorists? And, if they wanted to surrender the next week, who would we go to, to work out the conditions of surrender?
No, the president made one big mistake. The best he can do is say that President Clinton made a mistake; Senator Kerry made a mistake. They didn't take us into this war. He did.
BLITZER: Listen to what Congressman Murtha, Mr. Chairman -- listen to what he said when some of the criticisms were coming in against him. Listen to what he said specifically about the vice president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: I like guys who have never been there to criticize us who have never there. I like that. I like guys who got have five deferments and never been there and sent people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done.
I resent the fact, on Veterans Day, he criticized Democrats for criticizing them. This is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion.
The American public knows it. And lashing out at critics doesn't help a bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Those are very passionate, very strong words from Congressman Murtha, specifically going against the vice president, who's -- who's basically, together with the president and the secretary of defense, suggesting that what critics of the war are doing are undermining the U.S. military forces and encouraging the insurgents or the terrorists.
HUNTER: Well -- well, Wolf, first, if -- if you eliminate from Washington, D.C., all the members of all the people who don't have military experience, we are going to have a tough time getting a quorum to vote here.
But secondly, I can just tell you this. I served in Vietnam. My son served two tours in the U.S. Marine Corps, the last one in Falluja. Guys like Sam Johnson, POW in Vietnam, John McCain, POW in Vietnam, lots of folks who have good credentials, much better than my own, support this mission. And this is a mission of freedom. And I have heard this -- I have heard this...
(CROSSTALK) BLITZER: Let me interrupt you, Mr. Chairman, for one second. On the specific point that the vice president never served in the military, had five deferments during the Vietnam War, is that an appropriate thing for Congressman Murtha to say?
(CROSSTALK)
HUNTER: Here's what I would say, Wolf. I think that Congressman Murtha was probably responding to what he felt were -- were personal slights, and responding in kind to what he viewed as a White House attack on him.
What I would like to do is talk about the substance. And I -- and I would remind my friend John Murtha that -- that it doesn't help for him to throw stones back at those people that are talking about policy.
BLITZER: All right.
HUNTER: Let's talk about policy.
BLITZER: All right.
HUNTER: And the point that I'm making is this. We have -- we have heard this debate many times before.
In Iraq right now, we have Nicaraguans and Salvadorans fighting side by side with Americans.
BLITZER: Those are a handful, though, Mr. -- Mr. Chairman.
HUNTER: That's true, but I can remember the days when we were trying to keep -- to free those countries and to -- and to bring them into a democratic state.
BLITZER: All right.
HUNTER: We had lots of people criticizing us. We have Koreans fighting side by side with us.
BLITZER: All right. Hold on. Hold on one second.
Let me bring Charlie Rangel in. He's a veteran of the Korean War. Was it appropriate for Congressman Murtha to raise the issue of the vice president having never served in the military in this debate?
RANGEL: Not on the question of the substance -- substance, like Duncan has said. But I think what Jack was saying -- and I feel very strongly about that myself -- is that you don't attack the patriotism of anyone, whether they served or not. And when you do it to a guy like Jack Murtha, two Purple Hearts, Bronze Star, then I think he has a right to retaliate.
If we were just talking about he thought Murtha was wrong, that's one thing. But the president and the vice president has adopted this vicious campaign to attack the patriotism of the people as critical of the war and the way it's being conducted.
Duncan Hunter never says that. If you heard him clearly, he was avoiding that.
BLITZER: Let me bring back -- Mr. Chairman, Duncan Hunter, was it appropriate for the White House press secretary last night to issue a statement saying that John Murtha, the ranking Democrat on the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, has now joined Michael Moore and other extreme liberals in opposing this war?
HUNTER: Well, I wouldn't have said that. But once again, the White House isn't the issue here. The real issue here, Wolf, are the 140,000-plus Americans in uniform working every day in very difficult conditions now getting a message from the United States with -- that, somehow, the United States Congress is pulling the rug out from underneath this mission of freedom in that country. That's a bad signal to send.
BLITZER: All right.
HUNTER: Very demoralizing. And we need to turn that around.
BLITZER: Charlie Rangel, what happens if the U.S. were to pull out within the next six months? Do you agree with Congressman Murtha that the U.S. should pull out militarily over the next six months?
RANGEL: I believe it is something to be discussed. And I tell you one thing. You are not going to find any group of more dedicated fighting men and women than we have today. That does not mean that they support the war. It means that they support the oath that they have taken to salute and flag and to do what the commander in chief tells them to do.
And I would like to add one thing. If you notice where all these kids are coming from, especially those that are serving in the reservists, which are 40 percent of the so-called fighting troops, they are coming from the poorer communities of the United States of America, from the rural areas and from the inner cities.
And so, it's not the president or the vice president's sons and daughters that are doing this fighting.
HUNTER: I -- I disagree with that, Wolf. I think they are coming from all over. And I have had a good chance to mix with these kids. And I think they represent a great deal of America, a cross section of America.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Two members of Congress debating this very, very important issue. Charlie Rangel and Duncan Hunter, thanks very much.
Lou Dobbs getting ready for his program that begins right at the top of the hour. Lou, what are you working on?
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Wolf, interestingly enough -- thank you -- we are also going to be reporting tonight on the fact that the middle class is actually the -- the origination of most of our young men and women in uniform fighting this war in Iraq. We will have that story.
As well, at 6:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN, a showdown on the House floor, a vote tonight on whether to withdraw or troops from Iraq. It's a story we will be following throughout this hour.
And President Bush set to visit Beijing tomorrow. We will have a special report for you on China's rapid military buildup and how U.S. dollars are financing that buildup.
And wildfires spreading quickly in Southern California. We will be live in Ventura County with the very latest for you.
And new information tonight on the Able Danger scandal, which some say will be the most important investigation of our lifetime.
Please join us for that and a great deal more at the top of the hour. Now back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Lou. We will be joining you soon.
Still to come, Tamiflu considered a key weapon in the event of a flu pandemic, but the FDA is taking a closer look at some of the possible side effects. We will tell you what's going on.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
There's a rush on around the world to stock up on Tamiflu. That's the antiviral drug that is best known for treatment of bird flu, although it's not a cure. But is there some cause for concern about its safety?
Let's bring in CNN's Brian Todd. He has got more. Brian?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Serious questions about the most effective antiviral drug to treat the deadly bird flu prompts U.S. health officials to issue a very public reassurance.
DR. DIANE MURPHY, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: At this point, we see no evidence that Tamiflu is linked to these deaths or these cases of encephalitis.
TODD: That finding from the Food and Drug Administration comes after the Health Ministry of Japan reported 12 children in that country had died and several others were found to have had hallucinations, abnormal behavior, some even with encephalitis, or inflammation of the brain, all after taking the drug Tamiflu. But with U.S. health officials reporting no evidence of a link between the drug and those incidents, we asked an infectious disease specialist for some possible explanations.
DR. JAMES STEINBERG, EMORY UNIVERSITY: The most likely explanation is the underlying disease for which they were taking Tamiflu in the first place. They could have been taking other medications that caused these problems. We don't know what other drugs these people were taking.
TODD: The FDA did discover a new milder side effect from Tamiflu, skin rashes. And for that, they are recommending a change in the drug's warning labels. The label already warns of possible nausea and vomiting.
We spoke to a representative for Hoffmann-Roche Corporation, the manufacturer of Tamiflu.
DR. JOSEPH HOFFMAN, HOFFMANN-ROCHE CORPORATION: This reaffirms our confidence in the drug, that Tamiflu can be used safely in children when used according to the package's insert directions.
TODD: World health officials are confident enough in Tamiflu to push governments to stockpile the drug for treatment during a possible bird flu pandemic. In Japan, the drug is already in widespread use.
The World Health Organization tells CNN Japan is the world's largest consumer of Tamiflu, 75 percent of the drug's usage worldwide, most used to treat seasonal flu. Health officials and experts say they see no evidence that there is anything in the physical makeup of Japanese that might cause them to metabolize Tamiflu differently from other patients. But they say they are looking further into that possibility.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: How would a flu pandemic effect Tamiflu supplies in your state?
Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, is checking the "Situation Online". Jacki?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, an organization called The Trust for America's Health -- this is a nonprofit organization that is an advocacy for public health -- did a study of Tamiflu and availability.
Take a look at some of the numbers. What they did is, they did a state-by-state comparison. We broke it down. Like, here in Washington, for example, there's only about 10,000 courses of Tamiflu available. There would be a number of cases in the case of a pandemic. It would be 132,000. Essentially, that leaves a number of cases without Tamiflu at more than 121,000 people. The other thing they did in this study is, they took a look at the 1968-1969 Hong Kong flu and did estimates of how many people would be hospitalized and how many people would be killed. Some scary numbers here online. All of this available at HealthyAmericans.org, a really detailed, intricate study, give you some ideas on where the U.S. needs to be more prepared.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, thanks very much, Jacki.
Let's head up to New York. CNN's Mary Snow standing by with a closer look at some other stories making news. Mary?
SNOW: Wolf, a high-ranking Vatican official is weighing in on the controversy over the teaching of intelligent design. The director of the Vatican Observatory says the theory is not science and shouldn't be taught as if it is, although he says it's fine for religion or cultural history classes. The intelligent design theory holds that the world is too complex to be explained by evolution alone.
Colombian experts are keeping a watchful eye on the Galeras volcano. An estimated 10,000 people have evacuated the southwestern region of the country, fearing the mountain is about to erupt. Galeras' last eruption was in 1993. Nine people were killed. Last year, ash from the mountain caused several forest fires.
And Britain's Prince Charles is taking legal action against a British newspaper that published excerpts of his private journals. The entries cover the 1999 -- 1997, that is -- handover of Hong Kong to China. In them, the prince refers to Chinese officials as -- quote -- "appalling old waxworks." Charles gave the copies of the journal to several close friends.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Mary, thank you very much.
Up next, is another shoe going to drop in the CIA leak case? The special prosecutor making it clear that his investigation is alive.
And you might call it "Harry Potter" and the goblet that's on fire. Could the movie have the biggest opening ever?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In the CIA leak investigation, a new court filing -- in it, the special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald, says his investigation that's reached the highest levels of the White House is by no means over. Instead, Fitzgerald says it's moving into a new phase.
Could more Bush administration officials be indicted?
Joining us now, our senior legal analyst, Jeff Toobin. He's in New York. The fact that a new grand jury has been impaneled, this new filing, what does it say to you?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, one of the few good pieces of news that the Bush White House has gotten in recent weeks is that Patrick Fitzgerald seemed to be winding down his investigation.
Well, that good news just went out the window, because Patrick Fitzgerald is obviously continuing to investigate the leak investigation. It does not mean that there will necessarily be new indictments. But there will be a lot of new interviewing, perhaps new testimony before the grand jury.
More to come.
BLITZER: So, presumably, people like Karl Rove and maybe others in the administration still have to sweat it out?
TOOBIN: They -- they certainly do. I think what clearly precipitated at least part of this decision was Bob Woodward coming forward saying he had a conversation about Valerie Wilson earlier than many people -- than -- than other people involved in the investigation.
What Fitzgerald will have to do with that information is to see how it matches up with other testimony he's already received, whether there are any conflicts, whether there's any potential obstruction, perjury. That's going to take time. It's also going to take more interviews. And it's something that you need a grand jury to do. Now he's going to have one.
BLITZER: In the new issue of "TIME" magazine -- "TIME" just posted it on its Web site, an interview with Bob Woodward, he says that the reason that source of his went to the prosecutor on November 3 to say, I had a conversation in mid-June of 2003 with Bob Woodward, because he called me the other day. Bob Woodward had called that source. And that source apparently got spooked and went to the prosecutor.
How does that play into all of this, because there is this factual mistake in the indictment of Scooter Libby, that Scooter Libby was the first administration official to speak with a reporter about the Valerie Wilson story, as opposed -- and now it's clearly Bob Woodward.
TOOBIN: You know, I don't think that really has much impact on the case against Libby. Libby's case will stand or fall on whether he lied about his conversations with journalists.
And that somewhat -- that fact about who was first really is irrelevant. And that I don't think will help Libby at all at this point.
BLITZER: Is that -- is that official, current or former, Bob Woodward's initial source who spoke about the wife of Ambassador Joe Wilson, is that official in any potential legal trouble? TOOBIN: Certainly, potentially, because it depends how that person's testimony matches up with what other people have said in the investigation.
Plus, this official may have been someone who's been interviewed before, either in the grand jury or -- or by FBI agents in the course of the Fitzgerald investigation. So, perhaps, the Woodward disclosure conflicts with what this individual has said earlier. Again, I don't know. I don't think anyone outside the investigation knows. But it does need to be further investigated, and that's what Fitzgerald will do.
BLITZER: All right, Jeff, thanks very much. Jeff Toobin in New York.
Up next, "Potter"-mania spreading across the country, with the opening of the new "Harry Potter" movie poised to set new box office records. Our Ali Velshi, he is here in THE SITUATION ROOM, physically, with the "Bottom Line."
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The all-important holiday movie season is here, with "Harry Potter" leading the way.
Ali Velshi's got the "Bottom Line." He's here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is really the short straw. I thought I was the only guy in the world who hadn't seen "Harry" -- like, I'm the worst choice to talk about "Harry Potter." I have not read a book, haven't seen the movie. But I have been covering it for years because it is a remarkable phenomenon.
BLITZER: It's an amazing story.
VELSHI: People are lined up. People were lined up for this movie.
This is the fourth installment in the series. I'm going to tell you a little bit about the series. This is "The Goblet of Fire." It cost about $100 million to make, another $50 million to market. It is opening on 3,800-some -- 3,800-some theaters, on 6,000 screens. And it -- it needs to do well, because the box office revenues across the United States are down 7 percent from last year. So, they need a strong holiday season for movies.
BLITZER: So, presumably, this is going to do it for them, because people are going to be lining up to get a glimpse.
VELSHI: Oh, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Now, the only thing going against this is that it has got a PG-13 rating, as opposed to the PG -- PG ratings of last three.
Now, "Harry Potter"'s "Sorcerer's Stone" brought in $90 million on its first weekend when it was released, $88.4 million for "The Chamber of Secrets." And I hope I'm saying this right -- $93.7 million for "The Prisoner of Azkaban."
But $2.6 billion in worldwide receipts for these three movies. So, it's good, still not the most valuable movie franchise in history. That would go to "Star Wars." "Star Wars" is the most valuable there. "James Bond," good to know, something I recognize -- two of them that I recognize there.
(LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: "Lord of the Rings," another one that is from a big thick book, is number three. And "Harry Potter" coming in at number four. But they keep making "Harry Potter" movies, so it may well be the most profitable movie franchise enterprise in history one day. And then you and I will be forced to read the books.
BLITZER: We will do that. Thanks very much, Ali.
VELSHI: Good to see you.
BLITZER: Appreciate it. Good to have you in Washington.
We're in the THE SITUATION ROOM weekday afternoons, 4:00 to 6:00 p.m., back at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
I'm Wolf Blitzer.
LOU DOBBS TONIGHT starting right now. Lou's in New York. Hi, Lou.
DOBBS: Hi, Wolf. Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
