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The Situation Room
Jose Padilla Under Indictment; Mortar Attack Caught On Camera; Judge Deciding If DeLay Charges Should Be Dropped; Good Economy Not Helping Bush Poll Numbers; Debate Rages On Over Murtha Comments; Pregnant, Unmarried Teacher Loses Job; Two Possible California Governor Nominees Are Well-Known, Not Well-Liked;
Aired November 22, 2005 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Ali.
And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
Happening now, a high-profile terror suspect indicted. U.S. citizen Jose Padilla was held on suspicion of plotting the dirty bomb attack. But three years later, the attorney general says that's not the crime he's been charged with.
Also this hour, will the conspiracy charges against Tom DeLay be dropped? The indicting congressman awaits a ruling after a revealing day in court.
And holiday week snapshots of the Bush White House. Will the president be thankful for the latest poll numbers, just days before the debate over Iraq boiled over? We'll ask his communications director.
I'm Wolf Blitzer, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
This tour, new developments against two terror suspects. An Arab-American college student now stands convicted of joining al Qaeda and plotting to assassinate President Bush.
And U.S. citizen Jose Padilla now is under indictment, accused of belonging to a terrorist group operating in the United States and Canada. His legal saga has been a flash point in the debate over the government's treatment of terror suspects.
Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena is joining us now, she has the latest details. Kelli?
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the indictment doesn't read the way that you would expect it to. Padilla is charged with conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim persons in a foreign country, and with providing material support to terrorists abroad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The indictment alleges that Padilla traveled overseas to train as a terrorist with the intention of fighting and violent jihad. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ARENA: Padilla is not charged with any of the things that justice officials have said that he's confessed to, like planning to blow up apartment buildings in the United States, or wanting to build and set off a dirty bomb.
Legal experts say that's because he made those statements without a lawyer present and while he was in military custody. Justice officials would only say that prosecutors charged Padilla with what they could prove in court. Padilla's lawyers claim it's because the government couldn't back up the allegations. But still, they say it's a positive step.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONNA NEWMAN, PADILLA ATTORNEY: We are very happy about this indictment. It is what we've asked for. You don't hold American citizens and not bring charges. But if they lose the trial, what stops the president from issuing another order and saying, enemy combatant again?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARENA: Padilla will be transferred to Miami, where he's expected to make an initial appearance. His trial is set for September of next year, Wolf.
BLITZER: What about the second terror suspect, convicted today of plotting to kill the president?
ARENA: That's Abu Ali. He is a 24-year-old U.S. citizen. He was convicted today of both joining al Qaeda and plotting to assassinate President Bush.
He confessed to both of those while he was in custody in Saudi Arabia, but that's where he was studying. He says that he was tortured and so gave a false confession. But a jury rejected that claim and they convicted him, and Abu Ali could get life in prison, Wolf.
Just a moment ago, I spoke to his lawyer for a comment. Khurrum Wahid, he says that he's very disappointed. He thought the jury would see the truth of what happened. And he says that he does expect to appeal, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Kelli, thanks very much. Kelli Arena reporting. Moving on now to the violence and chaos in Iraq. A mortar explosion today that threatened another step forward for the country's fledgling democracy. Let's bring in our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. She has the latest. Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it is the kind of thing that happens almost every day in Iraq. But this time, it was caught in front of TV cameras -- a mortar attack. U.S. and Iraqi officials had gathered for a ceremony in Tikrit, at a complex of palaces and buildings that the U.S. had been using as a military base. They were turning it back over to the Iraqis in their ceremony when the attack happened.
Fortunately, no one was injured. But top officials were there running duck and cover by everyone. General George Casey, the top U.S. military commander was there, the U.S. ambassador, Zalmay Khalilzad. He was there, as well.
No way of knowing whether the insurgents, the attackers, knew that such top-level officials were on the scene. Mortars are notoriously inaccurate, but this incident in front of a TV camera certainly underscores what passes for a typical day in Iraq.
Tragically, Wolf, the Pentagon also announced in another attack, two U.S. soldiers did lose their lives to enemy fire while they were on patrol a couple of days ago. Wolf?
BLITZER: The whole notion of this mortar attack while this event was going on, the ceremonial handover of this palace to the Iraqi government from the U.S. military.
Is there a widespread sense this was a pretty coordinated attempt to disrupt this ceremony, or was it just coincidental that the mortar came in at that time?
STARR: You know, it's really hard to say for sure because there are fairly consistent mortar attacks in so many places across Iraq. But U.S. officials have said that they feel this was an attempt by insurgents to make a mark, to disrupt the activities.
There are an awful lot of times when these ceremonies, these events are fairly high profile. There are a number of people that know some event is about to take place. They may not know exactly who is going to be there.
But it's pretty hard to hide when so many people have gathered. So perhaps there was some sort of deliberate attempt by the insurgents to target this ceremony Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Barbara, thank you very much. We'll move on to some other news back here in the United States.
A Texas judge is deciding whether conspiracy charges against Congressman Tom DeLay should be dropped. But his ruling apparently will be a while in coming, keeping this cloud over the former majority leader and his political career, keeping this cloud over his head. Let's bring in our Joe Johns. He's following the story for us. Joe?
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's no secret that Tom DeLay wants these charges dismissed as soon as possible. His lawyers tried to get the judge to do that today, asking for the case to be dismissed or ruled on as early as Wednesday. Judge Pat Priest didn't exactly go for it. He did say he needed a couple weeks to think about it before he issues a ruling. DeLay is charged with conspiracy and money laundering of campaign funds. His lawyers have been waging a furious legal and public relations battle to make the case that the charges are bogus, and that the prosecutor went too far. The judge said 24 hours ago, he thought he had a pretty good idea what this case was about, but now having listened to some pretty good lawyers, he says he's confused. Wolf?
BLITZER: What about the timetable? Do we have any sense how long this is going to take?
JOHNS: The timetable very important for Tom DeLay, of course. The longer this case hangs out there, the longer it takes for him to go before the House Republicans to try to get his job as majority leader back.
The judge said today, I doubt very seriously we can take this case to trial before the end of the year. That, of course, assuming he doesn't rule in favor of the defense and toss it out.
Not necessarily good news today for Tom DeLay, Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll wait and watch and see what happens. Joe Johns, thank you very much.
Let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty standing by. He's got a question for this hour. Hi, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Indeed I do. How are you doing, Wolf? Vice President Cheney's not up for re-election. But that's not keeping him off the fund raising trail. Mr. Cheney is scheduled to speak at a fund raiser for the aforementioned Tom DeLay in Houston next month.
For $4200, you get to attend a reception and have your picture taken with the vice president. And a portion of your money will then go toward getting a man charged with money laundering and conspiracy reelected to Congress next November.
Mr. DeLay, the former house majority leader, was in court, as we just reported, on those charges today. And depending on how he eventually makes out there, he may not need this money that Cheney is going to raise for him at all. He could be in prison.
Cheney's office said, quote, "Congressman Tom DeLay has been a strong leader in the House of Representatives for a number of years and the vice president is pleased to help in his reelection effort," unquote.
Here's the question. Should the vice president be out raising money for Tom DeLay? The e-mail address is caffertyfile@CNN.com, or you can go to CNN.com/caffertyfile.
Sometimes things just don't have that appearance of being, how you should say, kosher?
BLITZER: Sometimes. What do you think about this $5 million campaign to raise money for a legal defense fund for Lewis Scooter Libby? That's some high profile people are involved in that.
CAFFERTY: Well, you know, it depends on which of these guys has the black and white photographs that are good for raising all this money, I suppose. I say that tongue-in-cheek. They're going to raise how much money for Scooter Libby?
BLITZER: They want to raise $5 million, they point out good lawyers don't come cheap.
CAFFERTY: Well, no. Good lawyers don't come cheap. On the other hand, what's the rush to raise money for Scooter Libby? I wonder how much they're trying to keep him from saying. I guess that would be where my mind would tend to go, since I tend to be a little cynical about these things. What is it they're trying to buy from Mr. Libby?
BLITZER: They're trying to make sure that his lawyers get paid.
CAFFERTY: Yes, yes.
BLITZER: We'll leave it alone.
CAFFERTY: Trying to get me in trouble, Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, thanks very much.
Coming up, President Bush looks to gain ground with the public after suffering from record-low poll numbers. Is he getting anywhere with that? We've got some new numbers coming out. We'll show them to you.
Also ahead, Mr. Bush's issue problem. Are new calls for a pullout sooner or somewhat later making an impression on him? I'll ask his White House communications director.
And she's pregnant and fire and she's got a complaint with the Catholic church. A frontline in the culture wars, all that coming up. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: President Bush preparing to leave the White House for Texas to spend this Thanksgiving holiday with his family at his ranch. But after some rough weeks, will he feel like celebrating? Our Bill Schneider has been going over some poll numbers.
First, Bill, the economy, is that looking better for the president based on our new poll numbers?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, you know, we're seeing some improvement. That's improvement in people's view of the economy over the past month. The number who say that the economy is getting better in the Gallup poll has gone from 24 percent last month to 36 percent now. And that is an improvement even though a majority continue to believe things are getting worse. There is no improvement in President Bush's job rating, however. Last month 39 percent approved of the way he's handling his job. Now it's 38. So apparently, it's not the economy, stupid.
BLITZER: Why isn't he getting a bounce? Usually it is the economy, stupid.
SCHNEIDER: Only 21 percent believe that President Bush's economic policies are helping the economy, twice as many people think they're hurting the economy and the rest don't see any impact at all. Now President Bush does have an economic program: tax cuts. But most voters don't think they're doing much good.
BLITZER: There has been an impressive drop in the price of gas over the past few weeks. Is that having an impact?
SCHNEIDER: Gas prices are not as big an issue as they were a month ago. The poll asks people, what do you think is the most important economic problem facing the country? Only three problems make double digits. The number who are naming gas prices dropped ten points over the last month. Jobs is now the number one economic problem. And this poll was taken before General Motors announced the latest round of layoffs.
Interestingly, more people are naming Iraq as an economic problem. The public is very sensitive to the cost of the war in dollars as well as lives -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst. Bill, thank you very much. Very interesting.
Another Democrat is speaking out today about bringing U.S. forces home from Iraq. That would be Senator Barack Obama of Illinois. He says that after Iraqi elections scheduled for next month, the U.S. should spend the next year focusing in on how to reduce troops in Iraq.
During a speech before the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations, Obama criticized the Bush administration for questioning the patriotism of people who speak out against the war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) ILLINOIS: This notion that we should start reducing our troops is not and should not be a partisan issue. I believe that U.S. forces are still part of a solution in Iraq.
The strategic goal should be to allow for a limited draw down of U.S. troops, coupled with shifts to a more effective counterinsurgency strategy that puts the Iraqi security forces in the lead and intensifies our efforts to train Iraqi forces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And coming up, we're going to be speaking with the White House communications director Nicole Wallace. She's standing by at the White House. We'll get the White House perspective momentarily.
Still ahead, she was booed on the House floor for suggesting that fellow Congressman and decorated marine John Murtha was a coward. Now a marine who Congressman Jean Schmidt says she was quoting tells his side of the story and it's very different from what she said.
And a message from the Vatican to members of the gay community. The church says sexually active homosexuals and those who support gay culture are not welcome in the priesthood unless they pass one critical test. We'll tell you what that is, we have details. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): More than anyone else this year, J.K. Rowling proved magic is found between the pages of books. Her latest "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" sold 9 million copies in Britain and the U.S. in its first 24 hours alone, making J.K. Rowling a candidate for "Time" magazine's "Person of the Year."
PRISCILLA PAINTON, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, TIME: After about a decade almost of producing these books, one could ask one self, you know, is this franchise been exhausted? And what she proved this year was that no, it's not the case. And in fact, it's stronger than ever. She published a book in late spring, early summer that was a huge success.
Then came the movie. And what this proves is that she not only has been able to convert that first generation of readers, but successive ones after that, not to mention their parents. And that her legacy gets stronger. And that legacy is of reminding people that in the age of IM'ing, you cannot tear a book out of the hands of a young reader in love with the book.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
The attacks and counterattacks over Iraq reached a new level in recent days with Congressman John Murtha's call for a speedy pullout from Iraq and an emotional House debate on that idea.
Joining us now from the White House, the president's communications director Nicolle Wallace.
Nicolle, thanks very much for joining us.
NICOLLE WALLACE, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Thanks for having me, Wolf.
BLITZER: Was it a mistake for the White House to compare what John Murtha was saying to Michael Moore, the liberal filmmaker?
WALLACE: You know, I think that words have such power in this debate.
But if you look at the policy that Michael Moore advocated for the duration of last year's presidential campaign, it is the exact policy that the congressman proposed.
But you know, again, I think the president and vice president have set the tone for this debate. I think we've made perfectly clear over the last five days that our differences with Congressman Murtha are in our visions for the best way forward in Iraq.
We believe -- as do 79 United States senators, as do more than 300 House members -- that what he proposed, which is an immediate withdrawal or a withdrawal based on an arbitrary timetable, is the wrong way to guarantee victory in Iraq.
And I think that, as people head home over the holidays, as people think about our troops over there fighting, it is comforting -- and everyone should be comforted by the fact that the Congress, both chambers, spoke clearly and embraced the current administration policy about the way forward in Iraq.
BLITZER: Because when I heard the president speak about Congressman Murtha on Sunday and the vice president speak about Congressman Murtha on Monday, neither one of them brought Michael Moore into the picture.
So I'll repeat the question: Was it a mistake for the White House on Friday to start bringing Michael Moore into this whole discussion involving John Murtha?
WALLACE: I answer your question again directly: No, it was not a mistake.
But, again, I hope we never reach the point in this country where the president and vice president have to repeat everything that spokespeople like me say. You know, the point is...
BLITZER: But they didn't repeat what you said, they didn't mention Michael Moore.
WALLACE: Right, that's what I'm saying, Wolf.
It is not the job of the president or vice president to repeat what a spokesperson says. I think most people watching find that a silly premise.
And certainly the policies that Congressman Murtha advocated are not debatable. He was very clear. He advocated an immediate withdrawal from the battle space in Iraq.
BLITZER: He didn't advocate an immediate withdrawal. He said over the next six months, and then to keep the troops in neighboring states like Kuwait, Qatar, over the horizon, to go back in if necessary.
WALLACE: Well, look, you've had him on your air for a lot of the last five days and I think he's probably articulated his position much more clearly than I can do. We disagree with the...
BLITZER: That's what he articulated the first day when he made his long statement.
WALLACE: Well, I'm not sure what you want to debate me on, Wolf.
BLITZER: I'm not debating. I'm just saying he didn't call for an immediate withdrawal.
WALLACE: Well, what he is advocating differs from current White House policy. And, frankly, I only saw two other Democrats, Democratic colleagues of Congressman Murtha's side with his position.
But this is a healthy debate to have.
BLITZER: I want to be precise on this, Nicolle, because words matter.
WALLACE: Absolutely.
BLITZER: The resolution that was in the Congress used the words "immediate withdrawal." And there were three Democrats who voted for that. Congressman Murtha talks about a six-month phased withdrawal and then keeping troops in the region, which is significantly different.
WALLACE: We still oppose anything other than a conditions-based withdrawal from Iraq.
BLITZER: Well, what about the Iraqi government that you're close with?
They came out yesterday in Cairo at an Arab League conference and also called for a phased timetable of withdrawal for U.S. troops to get out of Iraq.
WALLACE: They called for a conditions-based withdrawal.
And if you can point to anything, Wolf, in what they released that shows that they oppose a conditions-based withdrawal, you will have found something that nobody here found.
BLITZER: So what the Iraqi leaders in Cairo through the Arab League did, you support?
WALLACE: They back a conditions-based withdrawal. And if you read that...
BLITZER: But they spoke about a timetable for withdrawal. They'd like U.S. forces out of Iraq.
WALLACE: Based on conditions, Wolf.
Now, our policy has always been a conditions-based withdrawal. And this doesn't mean that we set an arbitrary timetable. This means that the timetable is created and crafted around the conditions on the ground.
And, you know, we should be careful with those words, too, what those conditions are, and it's important that you don't gloss over this, Wolf. Those conditions are: Iraqis can stand up and take the fight to the enemy. The Iraqis increasingly have their own skin in the game, if you will.
And this is happening every single day, and it does a tremendous disservice to the men and women in the military and to the American people when some of the other aspects of the debate are glossed over.
BLITZER: Here's what Senator Chuck Hagel, a Republican of Nebraska, said the other day. Let me put it up on the screen.
"The Bush administration must understand that each American has a right to question our policies in Iraq and elsewhere and should not be demonized or condemned for disagreeing with them. Suggesting that to challenge or criticize policy is undermining and hurting our troops is not democracy."
That's coming from a strong Republican ally of yours.
What do you say to Senator Hagel?
WALLACE: Well, I think that actions speak for themselves.
The vice president delivered a speech that echoed very much the same message, that part of the reason we're all in public, we're all serving here is to foster this debate and to participate in this debate and to make the case for ideas.
And ultimately, we believe it's the power of ideas, the power of our ideas and the belief that the spread of freedom in this part of the world is what will make us safer.
And that's where the debate needs to return to.
You know, Senator McCain made an interesting point about the media in his speech about Iraq about 10 days ago.
He said the media is quite efficient in covering the daily setbacks on the ground in Iraq but doesn't do a good job at covering the stakes in Iraq.
So, I think, at your side of the camera, here at my end, we all have a responsibility and, I think, a calling to elevate the debate.
BLITZER: We'll leave it over there -- leave it at that point, Nicolle Wallace.
Thanks very much for joining us.
WALLACE: Thanks, Wolf. Happy Thanksgiving.
BLITZER: Happy Thanksgiving to you, too, and everyone over at the White House. WALLACE: Thanks a lot.
BLITZER: Republican Congresswoman Jean Schmidt caused an uproar on the House floor Friday night during a debate on whether or not to withdraw U.S. forces from Iraq. She quoted from a phone conversation with a Marine Corps Reserve officer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
U.S. REPRESENTATIVE JEAN SCHMIDT (R-OH): He asked me to send Congress a message, stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message that cowards cut and run, Marines never do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Now that Marine colonel, Ohio State Representative Denny Bubp is saying he was misquoted. He told the "Cincinnati Inquirer" that he did call Schmidt Friday to discuss the resolution but regarding Murtha, he said, and I'm quoting now, "There was no discussion of him personally being a coward or about any person being a coward."
Schmidt sent Murtha's office a note of apology following the comments.
After Schmidt's comments on Friday, some bloggers immediately began looking into the assemblyman's background.
Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner is standing, she's got more -- Jacki?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as soon as his name came up, the liberal bloggers started to check out exactly who this was.
Over at the liberal Huffington Post, also with Daily Kos, they wanted to know exactly who was Colonel Daniel Bubp. So they went out and they found his official bio, they found this photograph of him accepting an award with Jean Schmidt in support of his -- or his support of the Ten Commandments.
But what's interesting to note today, in digging around, we found this -- that the liberal blogs continue to hound Jean Schmidt.
We took a look at her Web site and according to some rules, she's not allowed to have some information on it, specifically the congressional offices -- you can see here -- and also the U.S. House of Representatives seal.
So 24 hours later if you take a look at her Web site, all that information is gone.
Well, the blogs were taking credit for it. So I called her campaign spokesperson. And they said yes, in fact, it was taken down because of the blog information. They are very intent on following Jean Schmidt.
And what happened was their campaign found it on this local Ohio blog, which linked to the original blog, as they often do. And that's how it came down.
So they are very vigilant.
And you also might remember, Wolf, that Jean Schmidt beat out Paul Hackett (ph) for her seat and Hackett was a huge darling of the liberal blogosphere. So that's why they are so intent on following her career.
BLITZER: I do remember that vividly. And I'm sure many of our viewers do as well.
Jacki, thank you very much.
Let's go to the CNN Center in Atlanta now for a closer look at some other stories making news.
That means we bring in our Zain Verjee.
Hi, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf.
A U.S. service member and an Afghan interpreter were killed by a roadside bomb in central Afghanistan. The explosion tore through their armored Humvee, which was part of a resupply convoy in an area racked by Taliban violence. Two hundred and five U.S. troops have been killed in and around Afghanistan since the Taliban's ouster in 2001.
Some 8 million people in the city of Harbin (ph) in northeastern China will be out of municipal water service for the next four days. Authorities shut down the water system to check for contamination after a chemical plant explosion. The announcement of the shutdown set off panicked buying of bottled water.
Secretary of state Condoleezza Rice joined with Bosnian officials in Washington to mark the tenth anniversary of the Dayton Accord. Rice paid tribute to her Clinton administration predecessors for brokering the pact which ended Bosnia's bloody civil war. And she announced a new agreement between Bosnian leaders on constitutional reforms that are aimed essentially at strengthening the central government and further unifying the country.
German lawmakers elected the conservative Angela Merkel to succeed outgoing prime minister Gerhard Schroeder today. Merkel's political party won a slim parliamentary plurality in September. Intense negotiations to cobble together a right-left coalition followed. Merkel, Wolf, is the first woman and the former East German to lead the country. She's also the youngest chancellor ever at 51 - Wolf?
BLITZER: What did she say her priorities are going to be, Zain? VERJEE: Well, her main priority, she says, is to create jobs, to revive the German economy. It used to be the motor of Europe. It now actually has one of the weakest growth rates in Europe now. She said her other priority, too, is to restore fairly strained ties with Washington. The German chancellor before her, Gerhard Schroeder, had taken a position against the war in Iraq that had antagonized that relationship between Berlin and Washington.
But it's going to be tough for her to deliver this, Wolf, because as I mentioned a little bit earlier, she was expected to win the election quite gloriously, and she didn't. So she had to basically cobble together a grand coalition with her archrival, the SDP. So it's going to be tough for her to get things through -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Zain, thanks very much. Zain Verjee reporting.
In our culture wars, a pregnant teacher versus a Catholic school in New York City. Michele McCusker says she was unfairly fired by St. Rose of Lima School because she's pregnant, unmarried, and choosing to have her baby. The New York Civil Liberties Union filed a complaint with the federal government on behalf of the 26-year-old preschool teacher.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE MCCUSKER, FIRED TEACHER: I also don't understand how a religion that prides itself on being forgiving and avowing life could terminate me because I'm pregnant and choosing to have this baby.
DONNA LIEBERMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NYCLU: Here we have a case of blatant pregnancy discrimination, which is both wrong and illegal.
BLITZER: The Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn and Queens is named in the complaint. The spokesman says this is a difficult situation for every person involved, but the school had no choice but to follow the principles contained in the teachers personnel handbook. We'll have much more on this story in our next hour. That's coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Also today, the Vatican says sexually active homosexuals are welcome in the priesthood, along with those who support, quote, "gay culture." The long-awaited document is scheduled to be released by the Vatican next week, but was posted on the Internet by an Italian Catholic news agency.
The Vatican says someone with homosexual tendencies can be a priest if they've clearly overcome those tendencies for at least three years. We'll have more on this story. That's coming up in the 7:00 p.m. Eastern edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.
Up next, can the war of words over Iraq get any hotter? With the pressure on the president to start bringing troops, we'll weigh his options in our strategy session. That's coming up.
And later, the holiday picture many Americans gobble up. Here it is. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In the raging debate over the Iraq war, it's looking like a clash of the titans with top members of the White House verbally sparring with top members of the U.S. congress. Joining us now, our strategy session. Terry McAuliffe's the former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Charlie Black is a Republican strategist. Both good friends. Thanks very much for joining us. Both friends of ours, I don't know if you're good friends of each other.
Let me put SOME numbers up on the screen from our poll on the vice president, Dick Cheney, the "Newsweek" poll, actually. Is Cheney honest and ethical, 29 percent said yes, 55 percent said no. Did Cheney misuse or manipulate Iraq intelligence? Among all Americans, 52 percent said yes, 33 percent said no.
But look at this, Charlie. Among Republicans, even 22 percent of Republicans, registered Republicans, said he misused or manipulated Iraq intelligence. And yet, he is going out and being the front man in a lot of this debate. Is that wise for this administration?
CHARLIE BLACK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It's wise for the president, the vice president, and all our Republican leaders to fight back over this dishonest notion that some Democratic leaders have put out there that the president lied about the intelligence that led us to war. So yes, we're going to fight back. I think you see those...
BLITZER: Is it right to fight back with Cheney as opposed to, let's say, some other voices who might be perceived as more moderate.
BLACK: We need all the voices we can get, including the president and all our leaders. And you know, we let this go on too long before we started to fight back, and that's why you see some negative number there. But the truth is the truth, and those Democratic leaders who voted for the war, now that it's unpopular, want to get out from under that. And so instead of saying, "We were wrong, we made a mistake," they say, "Oh, it was the president's fault. He lied." That's a lie to say that he lied.
BLITZER: The Mary Matalin quote from "The Washington Post" that I saw is pretty good. She's an informal advisor, formally a formal advisor, to the vice president. "Cheney's audience is people who care about substance. And when he talks, they listen, and the base who wants to see him fight. And when he fights, they follow." The argument being that the president really needs to rev up his base in order to win this battle, this political battle.
TERRY MCAULIFFE, FORMER DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Well, you see those political numbers on the vice president. A majority of Americans think that Dick Cheney manipulated the intelligence data. I mean, his approval ratings is where Spiro Agnew was right before he resigned as Richard Nixon's vice president.
I think it's a big mistake to put him out because the American public know that Dick Cheney was behind the entire Iraq strategy. He wanted to go into Iraq from day one. He's been the prime minister of our government. He's been telling George Bush what to do, ad I think it's a big mistake to put him out there.
BLITZER: You don't think the president was behind the entire Iraq strategy?
MCAULIFFE: I've always said I think that Dick Cheney has been the prime minister of this government. He and his cabal of folks of the neo-cons wanted to go into Iraq from day one. They manipulated the intelligence data. They didn't tell the American public the truth, and that's why we're in the mess we're in today.
BLACK: What was the manipulation? I mean, look, were John Kerry and Hillary Clinton in on this conspiracy? They had the same information, they voted to go to war. This very day, Senator Clinton said, "Jack Murtha is wrong and we must stay the course in Iraq."
MCAULIFFE: I think it's laughable for anyone to think that the Congress has the same intelligence data as the president of the United States of America. That's just not the truth. Everybody agrees on it. Bob Graham, who was the Democratic chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, wrote an op-ed this weekend that deliberately they were misled, they were not told the truth.
And Bob Graham, as you know, was the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. They don't have the same data. And I'll tell you this, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and Jack Murtha, they all agree on the same things. George Bush has no plan for Iraq. We all agree they manipulated the intelligence data.
BLITZER: But they disagree what to do now. Murtha says over the six months, pull out. Hillary Clinton doesn't say that .
MCAULIFFE: But they do agree that we need to let the Iraqis take control of their government by 2006. You bet. And we all agree he has no plan. George Bush has no plan for Iraq.
BLACK: We have a plan, which is to let the Iraqis take control. The political transition will be complete next month when they have their election. It's too early to tell when the security transition will be complete. But the president's plan is to let the military train those people and make that determination. And when they say the goals are met, then we'll get out. You know, I kind of think Senator Clinton's in the same place, from the way I read what she said.
BLITZER: Here's a quote from Will Marshall of the progressive policy institute, which is a think tank affiliated with the DLC, the Democratic Leadership Council, the so-called new moderate Democrats. "We are not going to run against George Bush anymore. We need to start making the case that this party could take over the job of defeating jihadism, if given that opportunity."
That's a pretty strong rebuke of a lot of Democrats.
MCAULIFFE: I think the point that Will was trying to make, and I have continually made it in the last campaign, that George Bush has made this nation less safe. He pulled us out of Afghanistan before we should have done it.
BLITZER: But what he's saying is, instead of just slamming Bush all the time, come up with a plan that the Democrats support and can unite around, and that will resonate, he says, with the American public.
MCAULIFFE: I agree. George Bush has a 35 percent approval rating today. The Democrats are out there consistently. We've got to have our troops out of there. In 2006, we've got to let the Iraqis take control of their own government. We have lost over 2,000 troops and have spent $200 billion.
BLACK: Senator Clinton's not good a Democrat anymore. She didn't say 2006.
MCAULIFFE: She agreed that we've got to let the Iraqis start taking over for themselves. We've all agreed on that.
BLITZER: The president wants the Iraqis to start taking it over...
BLACK: That's the president's plan.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: The Republicans want to do that, too.
MCAULIFFE: But George Bush has been saying this for two years and it hasn't happened. I mean, just daily, the killings that are going on every single day...
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: ... political transition will be complete next month.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: We'll see what happens after the election December 15th. That's a clear milestone, potentially, in this whole process. Terry McAuliffe, Charlie Black, thanks very much.
BLACK: Thanks a lot, Wolf.
BLITZER: They're still friends.
(LAUGHTER)
Coming up, new reviews are in about Arnold Schwarzenegger and some other Hollywood figures who may want his job. Do California voters really like them or not?
And will a former football star take the ball and run with it in Pennsylvania? We'll tell you what Lynn Swann is saying and what he's not saying. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: On our "Political Radar," a new California poll shows two famous Democrats often mentioned as possible candidates for governor are well-known but not particularly well-liked: 41 percent of California voters say they view actor-director Rob Reiner in an unfavorable light; 48 percent give actor-director Warren Beatty an unfavorable rating. Neither has said he plans to run. But incumbent Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger may be breathing a little bit easier anyway, or maybe not. The field poll shows his unfavorable rating is 54 percent.
Former Pittsburgh Steeler Lynn Swann says Pennsylvania would be a better place if he were governor. Swann has been raising money for a possible campaign since February. But he's still cagey about whether he'll run for the GOP nomination.
He did say this, though -- and let me read it specifically -- "If it walks like a Swann and looks like a Swann" -- all right, that's what he said.
And what would Thanksgiving week be without this photo-op? President Bush issued his annual pardon to a couple of local turkeys. This year, the birds not only will be spared from the dinner table, they're going to Disneyland to be grand marshals in the theme park's Thanksgiving parade. Hope they enjoy it.
Up next, with the whiff of scandal encircling the White House these days, is it a good idea for the vice president to be raising money for an indicted congressman? What do you think of that? Jack Cafferty has been going through your e-mail.
And you may literally have to go over the river and through the woods to make it in time for Thanksgiving dinner. Bad weather, bad travel conditions are complicating matters for many. We'll have an update.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's head back to Zain Verjee at the CNN Center in Atlanta for a closer look at other stories making news -- Zain?
VERJEE: Wolf, Israeli air strikes and bulldozers destroyed Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon today. Israel's defense minister calls it the largest response to cross-border Hezbollah attacks in five years. Israel says the outposts were used to attack Israeli posts in the disputed Shebaa Farms area yesterday. Thirteen Israeli soldiers were reported wounded in those attacks.
Meanwhile, in Jerusalem, Israeli political leaders agreed that elections will be held on March the 28th. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon called for the early elections yesterday after announcing that he was quitting his right-wing Likud Party, a party that he helped found more than three decades ago. Sharon said he's going to run for a third term as part of a new centrist political movement.
The government will continue to foot the bill for an estimated 50,000 Gulf Coast families still living in hotels and motels for an extra five weeks. The Federal Emergency Management Agency announced today that families in the 10 states hosting the majority of hurricane evacuees will now have until the 7th of January to find more permanent housing; the previous deadline had been the first of December.
And new data shows that mothers who breast-feed are less likely to come down with adult-onset diabetes. Researchers say they've found that, for each year a woman breast-feeds, her risk of diabetes is reduced by 15 percent, a woman whose breast-feeding burns about 500 calories a day producing milk. And that's the equivalent of running about four miles. The study was published in this week's "Journal of the American Medical Association" -- Wolf?
BLITZER: That's very interesting. Thanks very much, Zain.
VERJEE: Yes.
BLITZER: We'll get back to you soon. But I've got to get up to New York right now. Jack Cafferty standing by with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack?
CAFFERTY: You're getting a lot of high marks from our viewers for that interview with Nicolle Wallace, the White House communications director. Played a little hardball with the lady.
BLITZER: Uh, hard ball?
CAFFERTY: You should pardon the phrase.
(LAUGHTER)
That's from that other network, the one with four call letters and no viewers. What is it, MS-something or other? I forget.
(LAUGHTER)
No, but people said that they enjoyed you kind of pinning her ears back a little bit.
BLITZER: Well, thank you.
CAFFERTY: Well, you're most welcome.
BLITZER: She's a very nice lady, by the way.
CAFFERTY: Well, she's probably not real thrilled with you right now, but...
BLITZER: No, but she's a very nice person. I know her.
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: Don't be trying to suck up after you beat her up on national television.
BLITZER: I knew her when she was Nicolle Devenish. She's now Nicolle Wallace. She's a lovely woman. CAFFERTY: Fine.
Vice President Cheney is scheduled to speak at a fundraiser for Tom DeLay's reelection campaign in Houston next month. For $4200 bucks, you can go to this thing. You go to a reception and get your picture taken with the vice president.
Mr. DeLay, the former House majority leader, is facing a couple of felony charges, money laundering and conspiracy. He was in court in Texas today.
The question is, should the vice president be out raising money for Tom DeLay?
John in Odessa, Texas, writes, "For the present administration, appearances are everything. To raise money for any man under felony indictment is totally unacceptable."
Mark in Greenwich, Connecticut: "While not a fan of Tom DeLay, he is innocent until proven guilty. And since DeLay is a party leader, I would think the vice president's fundraiser is appropriate. However, if Mr. DeLay is convicted, I would object to a fundraiser for any prison gifts."
Chris in Allentown, Pennsylvania: "If I were the vice president, I'd keep a low profile, stay away from any more controversy. If Mr. Cheney is bored and needs something to do, he should either visit the troops overseas in Iraq or swing a hammer down in the Katrina relief area."
Christine in Seattle, Washington: "Don't they get it? Do they feel invincible? This is not the way to restore the reputation of this administration. Then again, it's consistent with their earned reputation for an arrogance that disconnects them from reality."
Bob in Vancouver, Washington, writes: "DeLay is innocent unless proven guilty, Cafferty. And the charges may be dropped before it even goes to trial. Did you forget?"
And Bill writes: "Only if he attends two ethics classes and sells his Halliburton options" -- Wolf?
BLITZER: I'm still studying that one. Only if he attends two ethics classes. All right, I got it.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
BLITZER: Jack, stand by. We're going to get back to you soon.
I want to get some more now on this Tom DeLay case. For that, let's bring in our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton -- Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, Tom DeLay's legal defense fund has stepped up its online efforts in the last month. Just last month in October, DefendDeLay.com was launched. Here you can sign an online petition to stop the "partisan witch hunt," in their words. They're also asking for contributions at this site.
And not just here. If you look around some of the conservative blogs, like this popular site, HughHewitt.com, there have been ads running on these sites. Also, The Drudge Report. This one here for the Tom DeLay fund, "Stop the travesty in Travis County, Texas." Click through to that and it will take you back to that Defend DeLay site, where you can give up to an annual contribution of $5,000. So stepping up the online effort in the last few weeks there -- Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Abbi. Thank you very much.
Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, today is the 42nd anniversary of the death of President John F. Kennedy. Our Bruce Morton will take a look back at the political changes that have occurred since then.
And we'll have more of my interview with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on the Iraq war and on when American troops might be coming home, also on the nasty attacks against Congressman John Murtha, all that coming up in the next hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Most Americans of a certain age vividly remember where they were and how they felt on this date back in 1963. The nation lost a president that day, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, and some of its innocence, as well. Our national correspondent, Bruce Morton, standing by with more -- Bruce?
BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, as you say, John Kennedy died 42 years ago today. And what a different world that was.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ask not what your country can do for you...
MORTON (voice-over): Presidents got more respect back then. "Time" magazine's Hugh Sidey, whose death was reported today, used to say he and his colleagues knew all about Kennedy's girlfriends but didn't report it. They reported the Cold War and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Reporting changed, and so did politics.
We had a president who had to resign to avoid impeachment because he tried to cover up a political burglary. We had a president whose aides lied to him and lied to Congress about giving aid to guerrillas in Nicaragua, which Congress had forbidden. We had a president who was impeached, charged with lying about his relationship with a White House intern.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is.
MORTON: And it all got more personal. When Congress debated the war in Vietnam, they debated the war. When George McGovern told the Senate, "This chamber reeks of blood," he was talking about the war, not implying that his colleagues were bad people.
Debating the war in Iraq often seems to be about character. You're unpatriotic, wicked.
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... a few politicians are suggesting these brave Americans were sent into battle for a deliberate falsehood. This is revisionism of the most corrupt and shameless variety.
MORTON: Or this attack on marine Vietnam vet John Murtha for suggesting U.S. troops in Iraq be withdrawn. Jean Schmidt of Ohio, quoting a constituent...
REP. JEAN SCHMIDT (R), OHIO: He asked me to send Congress a message: "Stay the course." He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world...
MORTON: Maybe old reporters always think the old days were better, but politics has become more partisan, meaner, and more personal in the 42 years since John Kennedy's death.
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