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Violence in Iraq; Hillary vs. Condi in 2008?; Liberia's Challenge; Chicago Rail Accident

Aired November 23, 2005 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: With that story, Thanksgiving eve, accident outside of Chicago. A commuter train slams into several vehicles, at least one of them bursting into flames. It has happened during the height of rush hour.
Sean Callebs is in Shiller Park, Illinois, and we have word of injuries, now. Sean?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Ali. We're just outside O'Hare airport. Behind me, you can hear the traffic from interstate tollway. We are some distance away from this train in Elmwood Park.

Now, what we know. There are 13 people who have been injured in this mess. And you really characterized it very well. This happened at the height of rush hour, this, on the busiest travel day of the year. What happened, the Metra, one of just many commuter trains leaving Union Station in Chicago, taking legions of commuters to and from the suburbs, apparently going through the Elmwood Park area, this is somewhat of an industrial area, and slamming into passenger cars. At least one of those cars exploded. Still authorities are still trying to determine what happened, how the cars got on the tracks at the same time as this commuter train making its way to the west area of Chicago.

And usually, this time of day, we can tell you, these trains are crowded with hundreds of passengers. And the fact that right now authorities saying there are 13 injuries, one serious. If you look at the devastation, the one car that erupted in flames, it's almost amazing that more people were not injured in this or more people on the commuter trains weren't injured as well.

And really, Ali, we really need to set the scene for this because a lot of people heading home from work early on this day. You can hear the interstate beside me, just packed with cars at this hour. Really Chicago thought it had fared pretty well considering that they started out with snow here, there could have been delays at the airports, everything running very smoothly.

Now we have word of this accident happening in the Elmwood Park section, the west area of Chicago, 13 injuries, one serious -- Ali.

VELSHI: OK. Sean, so what we're looking at is a train that left downtown Chicago at 4:25 Central time. So it would normally, normally be carrying a lot of people. Today, people leaving for the Thanksgiving holiday, this train on its way to Antioch, near the Wisconsin border would have gone to the transfer station where people could have changed to O'Hare Airport, which means there may have been more people than normal.

Now we heard from Metra and we heard from you, Sean, that typically there would be hundreds of people. CNN now reporting 13 injured, at least one critically, one car up in flames, maybe as many as 10 hit. This is, Sean, heading from Chicago up toward the Wisconsin border. Typically a commuter train, Sean?

CALLEBS: Exactly. These commuter trains really fan out toward the north-northwest, the western area. And as you mentioned, they carry hundreds of people who don't want to come in on the very crowded thoroughfares, interstates leading into the heart of the city. We don't know how exactly, the fact that this is such a busy travel day is going to impact this commuter train.

It could have been, as you mentioned, carrying people going to O'Hare Airport. More than likely it's taking people who are heading home from work. At 4:25, people could have skirted out just a little bit early trying to get on the train to make it home to begin a long holiday weekend. We'll continue to monitor the situation.

As you mentioned, one person we know is critically injured, 13 injured as well. We will continue to try and update that, and find out where these individuals have been taken, how serious their injuries are, also try to get word from Metra, exactly what happened and how this is going to affect the schedule the rest of the day, because there are many, many people who are going to be trying to get out of the city to enjoy this holiday weekend. And certainly this very horrific mishap, not a very auspicious beginning to the holiday weekend, certainly, in the Elmwood Park area.

VELSHI: Sean Callebs in Illinois, just outside of Chicago. Sean, please stay with us. We're going to continue to cover this story. Let's bring in Tom Foreman now, following this story, telling us where this train was going. It was going to Antioch, but it didn't make it far out of Chicago.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is the northern line of the Metra there that runs right up to the border between Chicago and Wisconsin. It ends in Antioch, which is right up there. Let's zoom in here and show you where Elmwood Park is.

As you come into Chicago, Great Lakes over here, up here is Waukegan, Kenosha up there. This is really just over the north end there, and this is the place we're talking about. A lot of folks in here who would be sort of close in commuters, but certainly the train would be filled with people who are headed to these places a little further up north. This is not the route that you'd necessarily be taking to go out to an airport. So these are going to more local commuters. If you're going out to the airports, you're headed out this way to O'Hare, or you're headed down south here to Midway.

VELSHI: I think there's a transfer station, it wouldn't be the most direct way to get out there, but there's a place...

(CROSSTALK)

FOREMAN: Right, it's sort of a roundabout way that you might be going.

VELSHI: But Chicago can't spread east, so a lot of this heading toward the Wisconsin border means suburbanites, people who work in the city, live outside.

FOREMAN: Right. All the way up here, all the way up to the border. What you find is lots and lots of little neighborhoods filled with people who, like in every city in this country now, they're moving out there for the golf courses, the style of life, houses that are more affordable, and, yet, they have access to the city.

Antioch, the northern end of the Metra line, is about 11,000 people. So that gives you an idea how far it is by the time it hits the border. That's about half way between Milwaukee and Chicago.

VELSHI: It's 58 miles from where that train left. But this train didn't make it more than 13 miles.

FOREMAN: Didn't make it very far at all.

VELSHI: Now Sean Callebs is with us from Illinois. We are covering the story of a Metra commuter train out of Chicago, downtown, colliding with up to 10 cars just outside of Chicago, 13 miles out of Chicago.

Now, Sean, one of the stories we've been following as people go home for Thanksgiving is the weather situation across the country. Much of the Midwest experiencing cold and difficult weather. What would the rescue operations look like now?

CALLEBS: Well, it's certainly not going to be hampered by weather, not in that area. Right now the temperatures probably just above freezing, but with the wind, I mean, it is whipping. I landed coming in from Denver several hours ago, and really it was a somewhat sketchy landing. It was a big triple-7. So the wind affecting an aircraft of that size. But really it should have no impact on authorities trying to get out there.

The snow that moved into this area that CNN Weather Center has talked about throughout the day really has blown out to the east and to the south of where we are right now. Basically just a chilly evening. At worst, it's going to be uncomfortable for the authorities going out there, but it shouldn't hamper in any way.

So many times we see this, Ali, up in the New York area, with New Jersey transit, Long Island Railroad, people who may be trying to dash home and the bar may be coming down, telling people to stop and don't go across the railroad. We don't know that that's the cause of this accident, but that is one thing authorities routinely tell people trying to cross those areas, don't in any way try to outrun a train. It's just not good.

VELSHI: But, Sean, one of the things we should let our viewers know who are watching CNN for information about traveling today, this is a train that left Chicago's Union Station at 4:25 p.m., so if you are trying to find out about whether anybody you know would have been on this train, this is a train that left Chicago's Union Station, a Metra train headed toward Antioch, Illinois, at 4:25 p.m. It made it 13 miles out of there.

Now we have some reports that about 15 ambulances were called to the scene, 11 people, at least, have been transported to hospitals. We are reporting 13 injured and one of those, at least, critically at this point. We're still gathering information, we're still getting information in. And Tom Foreman is joining us now and just sort of trying to locate specifically on the map where this crossing was.

Sean, is talking about the fact that there are these dangerous crossings. We don't know what this was, but this is described as a long crossing.

FOREMAN: Yes, we don't have details on this exact crossing right now. We're trying to locate it. It's supposed to be at Grand and Harlem. We're going to have to look at that a little bit more.

VELSHI: Which is in Elmwood Park.

FOREMAN: And this has been an issue, by the way, in this area, particularly out in the Midwest, this question of railroad crossings, safe crossing initiatives have been under way there for many, many years because of precisely this problem. Because you have a lot of commuter rails.

It's one of the great commuter systems in this country in terms of people using it successfully and having a lot of people. Again, to give you an idea of where we are, right over here is Lake Michigan. So when we start talking about this area that we're talking about, you're not really that far off the lake. You wouldn't see the lake from there.

But this is the area that we're talking about. And again, filled with houses, filled with commuters and, of course, people in a city like Chicago just heading home at this very hour, really, to start their big weekend.

VELSHI: And we've got live pictures of some of those ambulances. You can see police vehicles on the scene. Elmwood Park, a suburb of Chicago where, just to let those of you who are following this, know we are following a Metra Chicago suburban train that was on its way to Antioch carrying commuters that left Chicago's Union Station at 4:25 local time, headed toward Antioch, 58 miles away with several stops on the way.

In the suburb of Elmwood Park, struck -- we have reports now, struck about 10 vehicles, at least 10 vehicles. One of them burst into flames on the site. A number of ambulances and other emergency vehicles, we can see some of them, and fire trucks in the scene. We have reports that 13 people are injured. And initial reports are that at least one of those people is injured critically. On the scene -- or in Chicago we have Sean Callebs, our reporter who is trying to get some more information about this.

Now, Sean, what we do know is that this would have been a busy time for people to be leaving Union Station on this Antioch-bound commuter train under normal circumstances. Unclear as to whether today had fewer or more people because of people going home for Thanksgiving.

CALLEBS: Exactly. But let's set the scene just a bit. Now we know that AAA tells us that there are going to will be 31 million people on the interstates and roads today, tomorrow, during this holiday weekend. So think about all the commuters who may on other occasions drive into town, decide, you know what, I don't want to fight the traffic tonight, I'm going to get on the train.

So they get on the train at 4:25, maybe have a newspaper, a cup of coffee, they sit back for what could be anywhere from a matter of minutes, 15, 20 minutes, to a ride that's going to be over an hour. They sit back, perhaps close their eyes, get ready to get go home and think about the weekend. And then suddenly, as you mentioned, this train didn't get very far, and slamming into those 10 vehicles.

Now, as we mentioned, 13 people are injured in this, one critically. And what, the number 11, Ali, we have of people who have been taken to the hospitals in this area?

VELSHI: Sean, you stay on that. We will continue to get more information on this. Sean Callebs on the scene for CNN outside of Chicago where a commuter train has crashed into cars. There are injuries reported, one of them at least seriously. Tom Foreman is sort of trying to establish for us where these people would have been going, where this happened.

What have we got, Tom?

FOREMAN: Yes, well, pretty much this almost certainly has to be just commuter traffic. That's all it can be at this time of day. Even if people are leaving early, I mean, Chicago is one of the great, great metropolitan centers, so you still have to have a tremendous amount of traffic this time of day.

A lot of these people -- you've got to bear in mind, a lot of these places up north of town were always traditionally places people got away to anyway. So a lot of people have family roots up here, so there would be a lot folks who would be going there for the holiday itself.

Nonetheless, this is the area we're talking about, not far at all from downtown Chicago. Just down here a little bit. The train didn't make it far. Would have made it out to the furthest northern point on the Metra line, but, obviously, this one did not make it at this point.

VELSHI: All right. We will keep on top of this story. Tom Foreman, thank you so much. Sean Callebs in Chicago will continue to follow this. Plus much more. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Hillary Clinton versus Condoleezza Rice, is it a presidential match-up to cheer about? Oprah Winfrey seems to think so.

Also ahead, number 25 in wicked, wicked tropical storm season, is Delta dangerous? Our Weather Center is on storm watch again.

And they're staples of Macy's famous Thanksgiving Day Parade, but are they safe? We're going to examine new guidelines and whether balloon handlers are ready if the winds start gusting. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: All right. Continue to update you on a developing story. A Metra train headed out of Chicago at 4:25 local time this afternoon has hit five cars directly, 12 cars involved in an accident. We have information that 13 people are injured, one of them critically. Metra does not know the cause of the accident.

But for those of you looking for your loved ones who might have been taking that train, headed toward Antioch near the Wisconsin border on that train, the accident occurred at 7600 West Grand Avenue in Elmwood Park, Illinois. It is Train 107 which left Union Station at 4:25. It was scheduled to arrive at Antioch, near the Wisconsin border, 58 miles later, at 5:55.

It didn't get more than 13 miles from Chicago where it hit five cars. One of those burst into flames. The train averages 500 passengers, on this particular one we don't know yet how many people were on this train. Our Sean Callebs is on the story in Chicago. We are expecting to hear from Metra, the commuter rail operator, very shortly.

This was the North Central line and the Milwaukee West line from Chicago to Elgin. Both of those lines are closed for people trying to get out of Chicago right now. Stay with CNN. We will keep you up-to- date on that story.

We are now going to continue with some other stories that we've been working on here in THE SITUATION ROOM and CNN. Right now, President Bush is at his ranch in Texas, he's getting ready to celebrate Thanksgiving like so many millions of others in this country. But outside, the battle lines have been drawn over Iraq.

Protesters were back in President Bush's backyard today, demanding an end to the war. Twelve anti-war demonstrators were arrested for camping near the president's home. Deputies were enforcing an ordinance enacted after the August protests that were led by activist Cindy Sheehan.

Now in public, President Bush and his administration are sounding a little more optimistic about the prospects for starting to withdraw troops from Iraq. In private, they're drawing up plans. CNN has confirmed that military commanders have drafted an option to gradually reduce troop levels in Iraq to about 100,000 over the next year. Perhaps 10,000 troops would remain on standby in Kuwait.

But that's just a draft. And it would be contingent on Iraq's December elections going well. A decline in violence and Iraqi security forces taking over more responsibility.

A potentially critical development in Baghdad where gunmen dressed as Iraqi soldiers killed a leading Sunni sheikh and his three sons and a son-in-law. Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is live for us in the Iraqi capital with more on that story -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ali, this is significant because when you kill somebody who's a member of a tribe, you take on the rest of the tribe here. By killing a sheikh, a leader in that tribe, you double the score.

This was Kadhim al-Dulami, three of his sons sleeping in their house in the west of Baghdad, 4:00 a.m. in the morning. Gunmen dressed in Iraqi army uniforms burst into their house, shot them where they were sleeping. Neighbors said they saw 10 Iraqi army vehicles outside the house. It's not clear who did it.

The message is clear, though, if you're in the al-Dulami tribe, this is a tribe of hundreds of thousands of Sunnis in Iraq, many of them in the middle class, they're professionals -- professional classes, teachers, businessmen, lawyers, doctors, some of them former army officers in Saddam Hussein's army. The message to them is, from this at least, the Iraqi army is bad, don't join it.

And that is exactly counter what the United States would like to see at this time. It is important, they say, in building the Iraqi army to get Sunnis into the army because Sunnis haven't been joining. They've been staying with the insurgency. So this is critical. It's turning Sunnis against joining the army at a time when they're desperately needed in the army to build the Iraqi security forces in the Sunni parts of Iraq -- Ali.

VELSHI: Nic, any confirmation yet whether these were Iraqi army officers or they were imposters? Are we closer to knowing that?

ROBERTSON: No, we're not. The Defense Ministry here told us today they have no comment on the issue. That they've told other reports that they weren't involved. Was it a complex attack by insurgents dressed as army officers? We certainly know that there's infiltration into the army, into the police by insurgents. Did they wear the uniforms? It's not clear. Or was this the Sunni -- I mean, rather, the Shia-dominated army, as has been rumored, with the police, coming out to attack the Shias (ph) as has been widely rumored and feared?

We saw that torturing a week-and-a-half ago at a police detention facility, mostly of Sunnis being tortured. It will play on those fears as well -- Ali.

VELSHI: Nic Robertson in Baghdad, thank you for joining us, Nic Robertson.

Returning now to politics here at home, Senator Hillary Clinton may not need all that much encouragement to run for the White House in 2008, but she's getting some anyway, from someone with tremendous influence in this country, that one-woman phenomenon known as Oprah.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Senator Hillary Clinton and TV host Oprah Winfrey, according to the Gallup poll, they are the two most admired women in America. They had a very interesting and possibly politically significant encounter at the International Emmy Awards ceremony Monday evening.

OPRAH WINFREY, TV HOST: Thank you. I hope you do us the privilege and run for office. Thank you. President of the United States.

SCHNEIDER: Was that an endorsement? Not clear. But Oprah Winfrey has a huge following, particularly among women. The question is whether it could translate into votes. Right now Senator Clinton is leading in the polls for the 2008 Democratic nomination for president. The leader among Republicans at this early point, Senator John McCain.

What would a Hillary Clinton-John McCain race look like? The CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll pitted the two frontrunners against each other among registered voters nationwide. The result, McCain leads Clinton by 10 points. Why? Men. Men give McCain a huge lead over Clinton. Women are divided. Maybe an endorsement from Oprah Winfrey could make a difference. If she were to rally women to support Hillary Clinton, the race could become a lot closer.

Some Republicans are trying to get Secretary of State Condoleezza rice to run for president. Rice is the fourth most-admired woman in the country after Laura Bush. What would a Rice versus Clinton race look like? Clinton by 9 points. Why? Women. In a race between the two women contenders, women voters prefer the Democrat by 16 points, and men, they just can't make up their minds. Maybe Oprah could help them.

(on camera): When Oprah endorses a book, it instantly becomes a best-seller. It would be interesting to see what would happen if she endorsed a politician.

Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI: All right. Our top story this hour, we continue to cover a train crash just outside of Chicago. Now coming up, we will go back live to Chicago. Stay with us. You are in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

THE SITUATION ROOM on CNN covering a developing story. These are live pictures just outside of Chicago, Elmwood Park, Illinois, where Train 107, Metra Commuter Train 107 which left Chicago's Union Station 4:25 local time today, headed for Antioch, near the Wisconsin border, crashed into five cars at Elmwood Park, 13 miles from its destination. One of those cars burst into flame, it set off a chain reaction, ultimately involving about 12 cars. Thirteen people are reported injured, one of them critically.

The intersection is a busy diagonal crossing that runs into Chicago. We are expecting to hear from Metra, the commuter rail organization that runs this train. This is on the North Central line and the Milwaukee West line from Chicago to Elgin. The -- both of those lines are closed pending further information and some investigation.

You can see there emergency officials looking at the cars that have been destroyed by this crash. We are keeping close coverage of this. Our Sean Callebs is in Chicago, and he'll be bringing us an update very shortly. You're watching THE SITUATION ROOM and we will continue to follow that developing story.

Zain Verjee joins us now from CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories that are making news around the world. Zain, what have you got?

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Ali, the British government is warning news organizations not to publish details of a secret memo, as one London tabloid did yesterday. The Daily Mirror reported that the memo said Prime Minister Tony Blair had to talk President Bush out of bombing the al-Jazeera TV headquarters in Qatar. The White House has called the report "outlandish." A top British government lawyer says media that publish details of a leaked document are breaking the law.

The tap is dry in Harbin, in China. Officials have shut off water to millions of people in the northeastern city. An explosion at a chemical factory contaminated the river that supplies the city's water with toxic benzene. Schools are closed and water is actually being trucked into the city from elsewhere.

The votes are tallied and Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf has officially been declared the winner of Liberia's presidential election, as she becomes the first woman ever elected head of state in Africa, winning almost 60 percent of the vote. Our Africa correspondent Jeff Koinange interviewed her and he joins us now live on the phone from the Liberian capital, Monrovia.

Jeff, what are some of the challenges that Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf faces? Liberia has been so utterly destroyed after 14 years of civil war.

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN AFRICA CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Zain, you've got to think of it this way, a country that has reached rock bottom and the only way to go is up. So we're talking about everything from education, hospitals, infrastructure, water supply, everything is going to be -- has to be overhauled and Ellen Johnson- Sirleaf, the president-elect, has definitely her work cut out for her. She's going to need a lot of help.

Let's think about it this way, again, unemployment at an all-time high. Most of the people fighting the war, child soldiers, were 8, 9, 10 when it first began started. Now they're in their 20s, angry young men.

It's going to be difficult, Zain. She has a tough road ahead of her, but she says -- she tells CNN she's up to the challenge.

VERJEE: And many of those angry young men support her opponent who is still alleging fraud, George Weah. How is she planning to reach out to him, and, importantly, also, to the warlords that back Weah?

KOINANGE: That's right. Again, she told CNN that she has reached out to George Weah. In fact, she wants to incorporate into her government Weah, maybe give him a ministerial position so that he can be either minister of youth and sports -- so he can bring his whole constituency with him, Zain, because it's a huge constituency, over a million people.

As for the child soldiers, well, there's going to have to be some kind of job plan introduced. Right now there's a disarmament program in place, but all these former child soldiers get $300 and they're sent home, no jobs, no opportunities, no skills. That will create a problem down the line -- Zain.

VERJEE: Jeff Koinange reporting for us in Monrovia. And we're going to continue to check in with you, Jeff, on this very historic moment for Africa and for Liberia. Africa has its first female elected president ever.

Ali, not bad, eh?

VELSHI: That's not bad. Let's hope it's the first of many, Zain, good to talk to you.

VERJEE: Don't underestimate African women.

VELSHI: I'm telling you. We've learned that on THE SITUATION ROOM already. Zain Verjee in Atlanta.

We are continuing our coverage here in THE SITUATION ROOM on that commuter train crash in Illinois. We are getting word in from Metra that none of the 13 people who have been reported injured were on the train. Thirteen people are reported injured, one on the ground. Some 500 people may have been on that train. One car burst into flames after five cars were struck. We are continuing to cover the story on THE SITUATION ROOM. Stay with us, we are coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Our top story tonight, that Thanksgiving Eve accident outside of Chicago. We are getting word that none of the 13 people reported injured, including one critically, were on the train.

Sean Callebs is in Schiller Park, Illinois, with the latest. Sean? Callebs is in Illinois. We are showing you live pictures. That is in Elmwood Park, Illinois. That is 13 miles north of Chicago's Union Station. Northwest of Union Station.

I think we've got Sean on the phone.

Tom Foreman is with me here. We'll get Sean on. Tom, this was at 7600 West Grand and North Harlem in Elmwood Park.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We finally located exactly where this is on this map. If you take a look at this, once again this big, wide shot. You can see Lake Michigan over here. The body of Chicago is down here.

Again, not far away from Oak Park, which a lot of people may know a little better. We come all the way in. You'll see as we move into this neighborhood, this is where these pictures are happening. There's the railroad crossing sign.

This is the very area we're talking about where they had this accident occur.

VELSHI: In these live picture, you'll see gates. Sean Callebs is outside of Chicago, he has news on this level crossing, and some more information for us. Sean, what have you got?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ali, we can tell you that the train was an express train, so it could be traveling anywhere between 55 to 65 miles an hour. There was an eyewitness interviewed just a short time ago on WLS, the ABC affiliate here in Chicago.

He said the crossing gate went down, and then a number of cars went around that gate, and that is when the collision happened and if you just look at the chaotic pictures, you see the aftermath of this. The ambulances now have gone from the area.

It's been about two hours since this crash happened. Injured have been taken to about five hospitals here in the area, including the one individual who was critically injured.

Right now authorities are still doing their forensic work in terms of trying to figure out exactly what car was where, how these collisions played out.

There are tow trucks in the area. So far, as far as we can tell, none of the vehicles --

VELSHI: We've got a shot of it right now on the screen, Sean. What you're looking at is more than five cars. We have reports that is five were hit, but that set off a chain reaction, involving about 12 cars in total, one of which burst into flames. This is described as a long, level crossing. It's in an intersection and it's level.

You both talked about this earlier, that this is where a lot of accidents happen, generally at level crossings because cars have to stop and trains have to go through.

FOREMAN: You can see this is really a high-traffic area. We have the triple rails that you see on the picture. You can also see up on the map here. Traffic is coming up in big lanes both ways. You see a lot of cars stopped here as if, perhaps, the crossing was down at that time the picture was taken. There are the rails.

There are the rails, this is the area we're talking about. It is an area with high traffic, lots of big feeder roads out here. These are big roads, lots of traffic. On a busy afternoon, people get impatient. We don't know if that's what happened here.

VELSHI: Let's talk about that, Sean. Just for our viewers who are joining us this is a Metra North Central Express train that left Chicago's Union Station at 4:25 local time, 5:25 eastern today. It was headed for Antioch, Illinois, near the Wisconsin border.

Tell us about who these people would have been on that train. How many people would have been there?

CALLEBS: These are the commuters really fanning out into the suburbs, people who work in Chicago. This was an express train. Usually there are about 500 people on this Metra train, as you mentioned.

Just about two hours and ten minutes ago that left from Chicago's Union Station going 58 miles, an express train that travels at that speed, many of those people probably would have been off the train in a matter of minutes, half an hour to an hour train ride out to the city.

We don't know if today, the busiest travel day of the year, how it was impacted on Metra. But we know the interstates and roads are going to be crowded. We don't know if that's going to mean more commuters are going to take that train this evening.

Also Tom talked about just think about the conditions, maybe family coming in, people anxious, trying to get the house ready for the holidays. Maybe people, if, indeed, did go around the gate that was down, it's hard to say if that had any impact at all.

You talk about those three trains. Amtrak is also seeing heavy traffic during this day, but Amtrak doesn't use those three trains. So anybody who may have family headed to the west or north who may be on an Amtrak train, they can breathe easily this hour.

Amtrak does not use the tracks that we're talking about here. In many parts of the country Amtrak and the commuter trains do share the rail, but that is not the case here.

VELSHI: We have heard from Metra that of the 13 people who we so far understand have been injured, one of those critically, none of them were on the train. It would stand to reason from looking at that picture that the injuries may have been sustained on the ground with those five cars that were struck, which then caused a chain reaction with what appears to be 12 cars.

Let's go to Judy Pardonnet. She is with Metra. She is on the phone now, en route from Chicago to the scene. 13 miles northwest of Chicago. Judy Pardonnet, are you with us?

JUDY PARDONNET, DIRECTOR OF MEDIA RELATIONS, METRA: Yes, I am. VELSHI: What do you know?

PARDONNET: I know there were multiple vehicles involved, as few as 12 and possibly as many as 15 vehicles and I do have updated information. I know that of the seven people who were first transported to area hospitals, three of them are in critical condition.

We are still going to continue to investigate to see what happened in this situation. If, in fact, it was that the initial vehicles went around the downed crossing gates. If, in fact, the crossing gates and the signals were acting properly and we will look at the entire situation to determine how this happened and how it could be prevented in the future because it is so tragic.

VELSHI: Judy, I want to confirm now, this is new information. Maybe up to 15 vehicles involved. Three of the initial seven who were transported to the hospital now being reported in critical condition. We were reporting one. We now have updated information, three. Of the people injured, were they on the ground or on the train?

PARDONNET: The injured passengers were in vehicles, they were not on board the train.

VELSHI: How many people would have been on that train? We understand typically hundreds. We heard a number of about 500 would be on that train, heading towards the suburbs. How many people do you think were on today? Fewer than that? More than that?

PARDONNET: That's correct. It's difficult to tell exactly. It would be between 400 and 500. A number of people in light of the holiday have taken off. Some of them actually took off early. Others may have been going to do something else on this eve of Thanksgiving.

So it's between 400 and 50 passengers. The average passenger load on that rush hour train, which is an express train, would be 500 passengers.

VELSHI: Judy, what is the situation with these level crossings? This crossing has been described as a long crossing. It's got normal signals. Is that typical on your lines. Are they typically a cause for concern on a commuter rail.

PARDONNET: Well, all of our rails, rail crossings are of concern. And our biggest concern with that is vehicles who tend to disobey the signals. Any day that you go out on our system and ride with our engineers, you will see people going around downed crossing gates.

We don't know at this point in time if that's what happened in this situation, but that is our biggest concern when it comes to the crossings. It's not the design of the crossing. But that's regulated by the Illinois Commerce Commission and reviewed regularly, so if there were something unsafe about this crossing, that would have been handled appropriately. VELSHI: How up to date do we think this information is of 13 people injured, at least of three of those, according to you, critical. It looks to us from the live pictures that we are seeing now that the activity at the scene has turned toward investigation.

I saw the crossing gate going up and down. It looked like firefighters were looking at it to see whether it would be working. Does this look like, at least for now, the extent of the injuries?

PARDONNET: At this point in time it does, although, sometimes people do come forward, as you know, after a situation. But many other people may have sought treatment on their own.

We won't have a full tally until sometime next week, because we'll have to reach out through our caregivers to find out how many people are still at area hospitals, and what their status is.

At this point in time, the most current information I have from our incident commander is that there are three people in critical condition.

VELSHI: Now you said three of seven initially transported. We have heard that a total of 13 people may have been transported, or at least treated on the scene. We have a number of 13 injured. Is that -- you're hearing the same thing?

PARDONNET: Yes. The total number of injuries is 13, but that's a fluid number because we have to make sure that we are keeping track of absolutely everybody who's been transported.

But there were seven initial people transported, and they were suffering from the most serious injuries. Of those seven, three are critical, but there have been at least 13 treated.

VELSHI: Judy, my colleague Tom Foreman is with me, he has been helping us establish the scene. Tom's got a question for you.

FOREMAN: Judy, can you give me an idea, how fast is a train like this traveling in this location, and how much before the train's approach, do the crossing gates drop? How much time?

PARDONNET: Well, it depends on our different lines, there are different regulations, but there's ample time before the train approaches, and the train would be traveling about 60 miles-per-hour. I can't tell you exactly in that location how soon the gates would come down. I'd have to check that. It's kind of a technical question, but there's always ample time.

FOREMAN: There would nonetheless be plenty of time, though. If somebody were stopped there at the gate, a train 60 miles-per-hour, people could be lured into thinking in their own mind, "well, I don't see it, therefore, I can go around."

PARDONNET: That's correct. Unfortunately, that is when you find the most grate crossing accidents, happen because people see the train and they aren't able to estimate its size or its speed. It looks large in the distance and the distance may not be that far, but people are often surprised how fast it actually gets to the crossing and that's when we have a tragic event like this.

VELSHI: Judy, I'm just bringing in Abbi Tatton, our Internet reporter, just to show our viewers what we're talking about in terms of the lines.

This was on the North Central line, and I understand that line and the Milwaukee West line are both closed. Can you give me an update on the service situation?

ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Well, this is the map that we're looking at -- sorry, Ali.

VELSHI: Show us the lines that we're talking about it.

TATTON: We've got the Metra system map here online. You can see where this train was going from, to, Chicago, in the bottom right hand of your screen down there, going up to Antioch there, on that line, but it didn't get that far.

If we zoom in there, you can see Elmwood Park there, it was traveling along that line, which is the Milwaukee District west line, which I now believe is closed. This is the details of the station there on Grand Avenue, that's the Elmwood Park station.

VELSHI: And that is 7600 West Grand, at North Harlem in Elmwood Park, Illinois.

Judy Pardonnet from Metra in Chicago, on route to the scene. Judy, your trained crew is safe?

PARDONNET: Yes, the crew is safe and they'll be part of the investigation as well.

VELSHI: Judy, please keep us updated, we'll keep in touch with you. Judy Pardonnet is on her way, probably arriving at the scene now at Elmwood Park, Illinois, from Metra in Chicago.

Thanks to Tom Foreman, Sean Callebs remains on the scene in Chicago. We will keep you updated on this story. We'll give you the latest on the crash in suburban Chicago.

We now have new numbers, 13 people injured, three of them now, three people in critical condition. Five cars directly hit, 15 cars damaged. We'll keep you posted on this. You're watching THE SITUATION ROOM

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: More on the top story, the commuter train accident near Chicago. A Metra train struck several cars in a suburb called Elmwood Park at the height of the rush hour. That set off a chain reaction of collisions. One of the cars involved burst into flames.

We are told at least 13 people are injured. All of them were people on the ground, not on the train. Seven were taken to hospital initially, at least three of those are said to be in critical condition. Metra says none of those hurt were on the train, but it was bound from Chicago's Union Station to the northwestern suburb of Antioch, near the Wisconsin border, 58 miles away.

Well, it's already been a record-breaking and devastating tropical storm season, and now comes another one, the 25th storm, named Delta. Can you believe we are all the way up to "D" in the Greek alphabet? Our meteorologist Bonnie Schneider is tracking Delta and whether it will be a bad one. Bonnie?

(WEATHER REPORT)

VELSHI: As we saw earlier on the forecast, Wisconsin, Chicago, they're going to be cold, but they're not in that snow path, which is fortunate, because we are following the latest on the train crash just outside of Chicago. Thirteen people are hurt, none of them were on the train, but three of those people are hurt critically.

We'll have more details, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: It's time now for the "Bottom Line" with visions of turkey and stuffing already dancing in your head, we know you can't wait. To get Thanksgiving dinner over with is what you can't wait for, and to start shopping. So if you're one of those hungry for a deal, folks, as opposed to hungry for a meal, retailers have cooked up several gimmicks to feed you.

Here's CNN's Gerri Willis, from New York.

GERRI WILLIS, PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: (voice-over): Want a phone call from country music singer Brad Paisley? All you have to do is go to Target.com and sign up. On its website, Target is offering prerecorded celebrity phone calls to shoppers. Sign up and the likes of Brad Paisley will buzz you Thanksgiving night and tell you to go to bed.

VOICE OF BRAD PAISLEY, COUNTRY MUSIC SINGER: Take your boots off and let me lull you to sleep.

WILLIS: Or model Carolyn Murphy will call you Friday morning to wake you up.

VOICE OF CAROLYN MURPHY, MODEL: Bet you've never been woken up by a swimsuit cover girl.

WILLIS: So you won't miss Target's two-day Thanksgiving sale.

(on camera): It's just one of the many gimmicks retails are using to get you shopping after you've had your turkey and stuffing. The National Retail Federation predicts 130 million Americans will hit the malls on Black Friday, so named because the Friday after Thanksgiving is often the most profitable. That's when retailers' bottom lines often swing out of the red and into the black. BILL HAMPEL, CREDIT UNION NAT'L ASSOCIATION: There's a huge momentum built into holiday spending. It's determined by basic human instincts and drive that, you know, the most likely forecast is that holiday spending will go about the same way it did last year.

WILLIS (voice-over): This year, as a lure to customers, stores like Sam's Club are opening up 5:00 Friday morning and serving breakfast. K-Mart isn't even waiting that long. It's stores are opening after most people have Thanksgiving dinner, from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. And Macy's is reportedly going to pay you to shop. The store will give away $1 million in gift cards on Friday, worth anywhere from $10 to $50.

If you'd rather shop from home, websites like Google shopping site froogle.com allow you to shop locally, even check the inventory of stores in your area. And BlackFridayads.com offers a one-stop preview for many deals on Black Friday, both online and in the stores.

I'm Gerri Willis, and that's the "Bottom Line."

VELSHI: Coming up, we continue to follow the story of a train that plows into traffic in suburban Chicago, setting off a chain collision. A number of people are injured. We'll bring you the latest.

You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: More on that top story, the commuter train accident near Chicago. A commuter train heading from the city to the northwestern suburb of Antioch, near Wisconsin, struck five cars, setting off a chain reaction of collisions involving up to 15 cars. One of the cars burst into flames. Now we're told at least 13 people are injured. Seven were taken to hospital. At least three are said to be in critical condition. This happened in the suburb of Elmwood Park -- that's about 13 miles northwest of Chicago's Union Station.

Metra, which operates the commuter rail service, says none of the people who were injured were on the passenger train. They were in cars or on the ground at a level, or grade, crossing. That's the live picture you're seeing. Those are the cars that have been destroyed on the scene -- that have been damaged on the scene that is under investigation. This was Train 107 on the North Central Line.

The North Central and Milwaukee West Lines from Chicago are both closed right now. There may have been 500 people on that train. It was an express train. We understand it was traveling between 55 and 60 miles per hour as it went through a grade crossing. At least one witness has told CNN that they saw cars working around the lowered barrier, not expecting, I would assume, that a train was coming down the tracks.

Metra is investigating now. This occurred at 7600 West Grand Street at North Harlem in Elmwood Park, Illinois. There are 13 people reported injured. Three of them are reported in critical condition. CNN will continue to cover this story. Right now from Chicago, those are the pictures you're looking at.

Thanks for joining us, and don't forget from now on, we're in THE SITUATION ROOM every weekday at this time from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, I'm Ali Velshi. Here's Heidi Collins, filling in for Paula Zahn.

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