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The Situation Room

Icy Water Leave Father And Daughter Dead; President Bush And Cindy Sheehan In Crawford; Four Governors Visit Iraq; Saddam Hussein Trial; Hopes Ride On December 15th Elections; Retailers Competing on Black Friday; Online Shopping Deals for Weekend; Michael Brown Starting Own Consulting Firm; Conservatives Protest American Girl Dolls; Bill Clinton Talks About Childhood Obesity

Aired November 25, 2005 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Kyra. I'm Ali Velshi and you are in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
Happening now, dueling commanders for the Iraq war and for the protest against it. It's 3 p.m. in Crawford, Texas, where protester Cindy Sheehan is back on the march, and where President Bush is preparing to promote his Iraq strategy again.

The former FEMA director faces new disasters. It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington where many people can't believe what Michael Brown has decided to do next.

And buyers beware. On this traditional kickoff day of the holiday shopping season, it's a jungle out there. We're live braving the crowds and the clamor for the must-have gifts. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Good afternoon. Wolf is off today. We are following a developing story, some tragedy in Cedar Grove, Wisconsin, which is 37 miles from Milwaukee. The body of a father and his daughter have been recovered from a pond in Sheboygan County. This is the pond that you are looking at.

Just moments ago, we heard from the sheriff of the Sheboygan County who confirmed that a little girl had gone into the water on a day that was supposed to be about skating. Her father went in to help her. Her other sister, still on the banks, didn't go in, ran to a nearby house and was able to have someone call 911.

Searchers were working that pond since about 11:00 Central time, noon Eastern. And now, just within the last hour, they have recovered the bodies of a father said to be 44 years old and his daughter who we believe to be nine years old.

It was very cold in Wisconsin. The temperature out there about 22 degrees Fahrenheit, feeling more like 13 degrees Fahrenheit over a pond that was, I guess, thought to be safe enough to skate on but didn't hold the weight of a little girl who went on it this Thanksgiving weekend.

We will follow up with more information as it comes to us here in THE SITUATION ROOM, but tragedy now in Wisconsin, a father and his 9- year-old girl have been recovered.

Well, there's no escaping it. The U.S. mission in Iraq is weighing heavily on many Americans, even as they try to enjoy a long holiday weekend. That's especially true for two people in Crawford, Texas this hour: President Bush, and anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan.

Our Elaine Quijano is with the president in Crawford. Barbara Starr and Bill Schneider are here in Washington covering the Pentagon and Iraq politics. First let's go to Elaine in Crawford. Elaine, what's it looking like today for the president?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ali, no public events for President Bush today. We understand he had his usual briefings. But he's basically continuing to spend time with his family at his ranch here in the Crawford area. But, in the meantime, as you mentioned, we saw the return of Cindy Sheehan back in town.

As she did in August, she is once again trying to draw attention to her anti-war cause. Now, just a short time ago, Sheehan joined with about 50 other demonstrators here in Crawford to dedicate a stone sculpture.

They gathered and gave remarks, but the stone sculpture dedicated to her son Casey, as well as about a dozen other U.S. service members killed in Iraq, it will be on display in a garden at a place that has been dubbed the "Crawford Peace House" here in the area because it's essentially served as a staging area for anti-war activists.

Now, Sheehan's visit comes at a time when President Bush has faced falling public support for his Iraq policy. The White House is not commenting on Sheehan's visit or on these latest demonstrations, in fact, but the Bush administration has maintained opposition to her idea all along that U.S. forces should be withdrawn immediately from Iraq. The Bush administration saying over and over again they believe that would be a mistake -- Ali.

VELSHI: Elaine, on Wednesday I believe the president is giving a speech in Annapolis, Maryland, an opportunity perhaps for the president to start moving onto this new strategy that has some administration officials talking about withdrawal at some point. What's he expected to say? What might that strategy be?

QUIJANO: Well, the war on terror is the focus of his speech in Annapolis. We should mention that before that, on Monday and Tuesday, he's going to focus his attention on border security and immigration issues.

But you're right. On Wednesday, in Annapolis, we can expect to hear the president again defend his Iraq policy and what he has said all along, essentially that it is a two-track strategy, a political strategy and also on the military front, training Iraqi security forces.

There has been much talk about whether or not Iraqi forces are prepared to handle their own security responsibilities. You can expect to hear the president talk about there being progress on that front -- Ali.

VELSHI: Elaine, thanks so much. Elaine Quijano in Crawford, Texas. We will keep on top of that story.

And four of the nation's governors are in Iraq and they're saying only good things about the troops, their mission, and the transfer of security to the Iraqis. The two Democrats and two Republicans were invited to the Middle East by the Pentagon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), MICHIGAN: The purpose for my visit here is really just to say thank you to our troops who have given up a life of -- at home, given up a year of their lives in service to their nation, but also to make a stable and free Middle East.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. HALEY BARBOUR (R), MISSISSIPPI: I was surprised to hear my officers talk about how much of the work that they were doing at the beginning of this year is now being done almost exclusively by Iraqis. This is encouraging to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. SONNY PERDUE (R), GEORGIA: I found the morale in our Georgia troops to be extremely high. They understand why they're here. And they understand what their mission is. And while they miss their families as any of us would, they're prepared to stay until their mission is complete.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KATHLEEN SEBELIUS (D), KANSAS: I'm pleased to be here and pleased to be part of the effort to make sure that there is peace and security in this part of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: Now, in Iraq, there is a good deal of anticipation and some anxiety about the trial of Saddam Hussein which gets back underway we assume on Monday.

Let's bring in our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, the trial is coming up, and aside from the logistics of the trial which have hampered it until now and the security surrounding the trial, it's causing concerns even at the Pentagon.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ali, everyone is watching this very carefully. Indeed on Monday, Saddam Hussein will be back in the courtroom in Baghdad.

It is likely to be very dramatic and very tense because for the first time, there will be witnesses scheduled to testify against Saddam, people who will testify about the charge that Saddam Hussein was responsible for crimes against humanity in 1982 when he was alleged to have murdered or participated in ordering the murder of 148 men after an alleged assassination attempt against him.

This first appearance by witnesses should be extraordinary. They are likely, due to concerns about their safety and security, to testify from behind screens. And the fact that the trial is resuming at all is somewhat remarkable, of course, because two of Saddam's lawyers have been killed and one was wounded in targeted assassination attempts.

The only reason everyone's back in the courtroom apparently, is the U.S. has agreed to help investigate those matters. So it will be very interesting and it will be very closely watched, of course, to see how long the trial goes on, because with those December 15th elections coming up, with tensions again on the rise, there are real questions about how long this court session will last -- Ali.

VELSHI: Barbara, that shift that we've been seeing perhaps in the administration and maybe we'll see more of that, that shift that allows the administration to talk more about pullouts and deal with some of the pressure they're having, a lot of the focus of that has come from the Pentagon.

You've sensed some changes. But the Pentagon has talked a lot about this December 15th date as something they want to look to, to be able to make decisions about whether they pull out or not.

STARR: Well, at least for the first phase. The notion is, if the election goes well, and a new Iraqi government can be seated, at least what they can do is bring home sometime early next year about 20,000 troops.

That bump up of 20,000 that they put in to deal with any pre- election violence. So if it goes well, they at least hope to move fairly rapidly to bring those troops home, Ali.

VELSHI: All right. Barbara, thanks very much. Barbara Starr, our Pentagon correspondent.

Let's talk more about the upcoming election in Iraq and what it might mean for U.S. forces and for morale at home.

Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider joins us now. Bill, while the Pentagon and the administration are pinning some hopes on December 15th, give us a sense of your perspective on this. What is it going to likely mean both for Iraq and for the ideas that Americans have about troops in Iraq?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Ali, Iraq has already had two elections this year: January 30th for an interim government, and October 15th for a new constitution. And each time, there was a burst of optimism among Americans. Maybe the Iraqis will be able to take charge of their affairs. Maybe Americans can begin to leave.

But, in each case, the optimism was short-lived as the violence intensified. Now we have the December 15th election for a full-term government. Don't be prized if the American public feels encouraged once again about Iraq. Hope springs eternal, but experience is likely to caution some skepticism.

VELSHI: What's likely to make a difference in public perceptions toward Iraq? What has to happen for people to -- Americans to actually think there is some good movement there?

SCHNEIDER: A prolonged period of diminishing violence, fewer deaths, fewer injuries, some sense that the Iraqi government is -- has broad legitimacy in the country and is capable of governing, that it can prevent civil war.

Evidence that the Iraqi security forces, both the military and the police, is prepared to -- that they have prepared to take control of the military situation there -- that is the precisely the issue that President Bush intends to address in his speech on Wednesday, and it is likely to take more than one speech by a president.

VELSHI: But we should look for clues on Wednesday at that speech in Annapolis to see whether the president is moving in that direction.

SCHNEIDER: Yes, the president clearly will say things, encouraging things. But Americans want to know what's happening on the ground.

VELSHI: Bill, good to see you. Thanks so much. Senior political analyst Bill Schneider.

Coming up, have you bought anything yet today? Because if not, we understand there might be some spots available in some of those shopping malls and department stores across the country. We are covering the action in those stores, we're also covering those people who insist on staying away.

Also ahead, Brownie's new job. The man President Bush famously praised and then let go as FEMA director. He's raising eyebrows again.

And we couldn't get enough on Thanksgiving, so what better on the day after than a second helping of political turkeys. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: The annual day after Thanksgiving shopping free-for-all is in full swing. For many Americans, it either feels like an Olympic sprint or maybe a world-wrestling smack down. Bargain hunters lined up before sunrise at this particular store in Alexandria, Virginia, and in many others around the country. In fact, some were told shoppers were there long before the staff. One market research firm estimates that shopper traffic is up 25 percent over the same day last year, but some analysts warn that this purchasing frenzy may peter out even before the weekend is over.

How desperate are people to get the best buys? Look at this. A brawl broke out at a Wal-Mart in Orlando, Florida, as people rushed to get laptop computers that were on sale.

Some collapsed on one another. One man apparently cut in line and was wrestled to the ground by security guards. No such insanity with our Mary Snow, who's on the holiday shopping beat today. She has been braving the crowds at Macy's in New York City. Mary, you have been there since pretty early, what's going on?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ali, I'll tell you, pretty soon they may want to start calling this black-and-blue Friday if things keep up the way they have been going, really, a frenzied scene.

Crowds have been consistent here at Macy's. But you know, those crowds started even before the sun came up. And at 6 a.m., Macy's here in Herald Square opened it's store. It counted over 1,000 people waiting on line to get in.

Now, what has been happening is, department stores like Macy's face stiff competition with discounters like Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart this year said that: it was going to meet competitors' low prices. So that really has put so many retailers on edge, along with concerns about consumers maybe scaling back because of high gasoline prices and home heating bills.

So stores like Macy's, what it did this year, is gave out $1 million worth of gift cards to early shoppers. This is just one of many ways for stores to try to entice shoppers coming in. The National Retail Federation says that over this weekend alone, that it expects about 130 million people to be in stores throughout the weekend to do shopping. Ali?

VELSHI: Mary, you'll remember some years ago when you and I were business reporters together, and we all know this is a very important time for retailers and then to the economy. But there's a growing chorus of people who are pretty active about promoting the idea of not shopping today, and not going out and buying things during this promotional period.

SNOW: Yes, along with this frenzy to get people out early is also now a backlash. And there is a movement to try and tell people not to come out shopping, especially on Black Friday, as it's called. And here in New York, earlier today, performance artist -- calls himself the Reverend Billy (ph) -- came out with the "stop shopping gospel choir."

This, to spread the message -- and it's part of a larger crusade. And their message is that they want Americans to stop unnecessary shopping and really take a look at what it it says is the dark side of consumerism and the fact that so many people are in debt and just keep spending away.

VELSHI: All right, it may be resonating, but probably not with the folks right around you right now. Mary?

SNOW: Yes, that message didn't get to these people.

VELSHI: No kidding. We'll talk to you in the next hour. Try and stay warm. Mary Snow outside of the famous Macy's in midtown Manhattan.

Well, our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton is here to tell us what Black Friday looks like online. At least it's warmer, Abbi.

ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Absolutely, Ali. There are a number of sites out there that are trying to round up all the Black Friday deals for you, so you can look at them in one place.

There are many of these sites, one of them is got gotadeal.com. Look at the whole host of stores that this site links to, to bring you the specials. Now these sites try and bring you these specials before they're even released by those stores themselves. Gotadeal.com, almost a month ago, was sending out information about what Wal-Mart's prices might look like this Black Friday.

Now another one of these sites is bfads.net. They've had a mailing list to send out this information to people in the last couple of weeks, before it becomes available from the stores themselves.

And sometimes these stores aren't happy about having this information leaked onto the Web. These people -- the hosts of these sites are getting it from tips that they're receiving from the stores, or people even at the printing presses of these advertisements.

This site has been actually threatened with a cease-and-desist from a store or two. But other stores are happy to have this kind of online advertising. In any case, bfads.net has a whole host of different coupons and advertisements on the site here. These sites are so competitive with each other, Ali, that they actually stamp the name of their site across the coupon so you know where it comes from.

VELSHI: You know, I've been having a back-and-forth with a very good friend of mine, who is a retail analyst about this whole business of cyber Monday. The idea that the Monday after Black Friday is cyber Monday, so the best day to get deals on the Internet. I think it's all hype. Is there something to it?

TATTON: Well, there are certainly deals out there and people online are focused on this whole period. For example, overstock.com, in this whole week of shopping, they're offering discounts and a special area of this week after Thanksgiving.

There is a report from shop.org that came out that said 77 percent of online retails did see a big bump in online shopping the Monday after Thanksgiving. But I talked to Amazon.com today, and they told me they're focused on the whole season. And that actually, yesterday, Thanksgiving Day, when people at home and the shops were closed, was a very big day for them. Ali?

VELSHI: What this means, if that's true, that a whole bunch of employers are not going to have a whole lot of employees, not doing a lot of work on Monday if they're shopping.

Abbi, we'll catch up with you later. Abbi Tatton.

Still ahead, a massive volcano comes to life. Will it force people to flee? We'll go live to the base of the mountain.

Plus, you won't want to miss this. Liquor stores get trashed. Who is behind the destruction? Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Zain Verjee joins us from the CNN Center in Atlanta with some other stories that we're following. Zain, lovely to see you.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: And you, Ali. Actor Pat Morita is dead at the age of 73. Morita was nominated for an Academy Award for his role as Mr. Miyagi in the 1984 film "The Karate Kid." He was the son of migrant fruit pickers and he spent part of his childhood in a World War II camp for Japanese-Americans.

Soccer fans around the world are mourning the death of one of the game's most dazzling players. George Best died today at the age of 59. The British Prime Minister Tony Blair called him probably the most naturally gifted footballer of his generation. But Best was plagued all through his career by alcoholism. He died of multiple organ failure.

Police in Oakland, California, have added extra patrols in a neighborhood where two stores were vandalized late Wednesday night. About a dozen men are seen on security cameras smashing liquor and beer bottles in the stores. The men were wearing suits, white- collared shirts and bow ties. Police are reportedly looking at the incident as hate crimes.

We're going to bring you more on this story just ahead in THE SITUATION ROOM.

The father of the two sisters hurt during Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade says "they're doing just fine." The sisters were hurt when tethers from the M&M's balloon got tangled in the head of a street lamp, just knocking it into the crowd. Officials from the city and Macy's say they're investigating. But the father says the family won't sue because accidents just happen.

It wasn't only the humans who suffered after Hurricane Katrina. The New Orleans Zoo was also flooded. But now there's another small sign of progress. The zoo is open again. It reopened to members today and it's scheduled to open free to the public tomorrow. Ali?

VELSHI: Zain, good to see you again. We will check in with you in a little while. Zain Verjee in Atlanta. Up next, he was the face of the slow federal response to Hurricane Katrina. He was ousted as the led of FEMA, so wait till you hear what Michael Brown hopes to do next.

Plus, why are these dolls under attack by anti-abortion groups? The controversy in today's culture wars. Stay with us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: We're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

One of the stories that we're following is a tragedy that's unfolded in Wisconsin, Cedar Grove, Wisconsin, about 30 miles away from Milwaukee. You are looking at a pond where, about an hour ago, the body of a 44-year-old man and then shortly thereafter, his nine or 10-year-old daughter, have been recovered.

Now, a father reportedly went there with his two daughters to skate. The daughter fell into the water. The reports are that the father went in after her. The sister, 6-year-old daughter, was still on shore. She ran to an aunt's house nearby, where police were called. A search ensued and that was going on for much of the afternoon.

The temperature there about 22 degrees and feels much colder. The sheriff of the county, Sheboygan County, Wisconsin, telling us not too long ago that two bodies have been recovered. We'll continue to bring you the update on that story as we hear it.

In other stories, there's word today that former-FEMA Director Michael Brown is starting his own consulting firm. Now, that's not all that surprising. The man does needs a job. But after his widely- ridiculed performance during Hurricane Katrina, you might think Brown would get as far as away from dealing with disasters as possible. Well, guess again. Our Joe Johns has been looking into Brown's business. He joins us now. Joe, this one had to surprise even you, and you've seen a lot working here in Washington.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, but you know, all kinds of things happen in this town, Ali. Michael Brown's work and his record came under scrutiny and attack this year after Hurricane Katrina.

But now that he's no longer FEMA director, Brown is apparently trying to remake himself as a consultant, specializing in the field of emergency preparedness.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (voice-over): He was the face of the federal response to Hurricane Katrina, blamed for many failures, perhaps even vilified. But Michael Brown was always defiant of his critics and willing to pass the buck.

MICHAEL BROWN, FORMER FEMA DIRECTOR: My biggest mistake was not recognizing by Saturday that Louisiana was dysfunctional.

JOHNS: Now, a published report says he wants to cash in on his experience. He's setting himself up as a consultant, with offices in Washington, D.C., and the Denver area, according to the "Rocky Mountain News," which quotes him as saying, "Look, Hurricane Katrina showed how bad disasters can be.

And there's an incredible need for individuals and businesses to understand how important preparedness is. So if I can help people focus on preparedness, how to be better prepared in their homes and better prepared in their businesses, because that goes straight to the bottom line, then I hope I can help the country in some way."

In a way, the former FEMA director is just doing what comes naturally for specialized top-level former employees of the government. Former FEMA Directors James Lee Witt and Joe Allbaugh both basically did the same thing.

People we spoke with in the preparedness consultant business wouldn't go on camera today but did say Michael Brown's record could certainly set him apart from the others, especially because he was raked over the coals by members of Congress.

REP. JOHN DINGELL (D-MI), HOUSE ENERGY COMMITTEE: Mr. Brown was regrettably an administrator or an officer or the head of an Arabian Horse Association, hardly qualifying him to address the kind of problems he's looking at now.

JOHNS: Still, experts say a guy like Brown might make money as an emergency preparedness consultant because he knows the system and the people in power in Washington right now. Private companies might want to hire him to help them deal with the federal bureaucracy that he recently left.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: We tried to reach Michael Brown today to talk about this new career move. So far, Ali, we have been unsuccessful.

VELSHI: Joe, this remains an interesting story. We'll continue to follow it. I want to remind our viewers you and I are both going to be on "ON THE STORY" this weekend, Saturday night and Sunday afternoon, where viewers can call in and vote on which one of us has the better haircut.

(LAUGHTER)

JOHNS: It's about the same, buddy.

VELSHI: Joe Johns is going to be talking about what he's been covering this week at Congress.

In the culture war, some conservative activists are protesting one of the hottest toys on the market, American Girl dolls. Now, two groups are calling for a boycott of American Girl products, and they're demonstrating outside American Girl stores in Chicago and New York today.

The protesters complain that American Girl's parent company, Mattel, is refusing to stop donating funds to a non-profit group called Girls Incorporated. Critics say Girls Incorporated is a, quote, "pro-abortion, pro-lesbian advocacy group." But Girls Incorporated say its educational programs for girls are about preventing the need for abortions and promoting tolerance. We'll keep following this controversy.

Well, in Boston, Catholic Archbishop Sean O'Malley is sending a message today to homosexuals. He says he doesn't want them to feel like the church discriminates against them. Despite its opposition to same-sex marriage, in a letter sent to parishioners, O'Malley says many homosexuals in the church lead holy lives. His letter comes just days before the Vatican is formally expected to announce a policy banning gays from entering the priesthood.

And an active volcano in southwestern Colombia appears to be settling down, but there's still a risk of new eruptions. The volcano blew yesterday, spewing ash and forcing thousands to evacuate. CNN's Karl Penhaul is at the scene.

Karl, we spoke to you yesterday. You're closer to the base of the mountain now. What's the situation?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Ali, we're in a village of Naranja (ph), which is actually in the shadow of the Galeras volcano. That's, in fact, the volcano behind me. And you might be just able to make out from the summit there one of these large columns of vapor coming out.

The experts tell us that's also mixed with sulfur dioxide, carbon monoxide, and carbon dioxide. And the volcanologists here say the risk is still very high, although they've downgraded it from an imminent risk of eruption to an eruption likely within the next few days -- Ali?

VELSHI: Karl Penhaul, we'll, of course, stay on this story with you. Karl Penhaul is in Colombia.

Well, coming up on THE SITUATION ROOM, the words of words over the war in Iraq. We'll look at the politics behind the tough talk. That's next in today's "Strategy Session."

Plus, a new development in the CIA leak case. Why does Scooter Libby still have his security clearance? The answer, in today's "Political Radar."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: In today's "Strategy Session," the war of words continues to rage over Iraq. Does the Bush administration need to shift its strategy to stop falling poll numbers? Do Democrats need to speak more with one voice? And is Cindy Sheehan having any impact on the national debate?

Here to cover it all are Democratic strategist Donna Brazile and Republican strategist Ed Rogers.

Welcome to both of you. Thanks for being here.

Donna, let's start with you. There have been some emerging trends in the last couple of weeks in the Democratic Party, which indicate strength of a single voice. But that's not the case necessarily. John Murtha has emerged with a very strong voice. But Joe Lieberman's been in Iraq saying something different.

What's the Democratic strategy right now? What's the best thing for Democrats to be doing?

DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, what Democrats are trying to do right now is to really put forward their own ideas. They would like to see Iraq returned to being a peaceful nation, a secure nation. They want to see the terrorists defeated. They also would like to see the elections on December 15th to go on smoothly.

I think Republicans are trying to paint Democrats into this camp of cut and run. That's not true. Many Democrats are advocating for a gradual withdrawal. Some saying it should be a responsible withdrawal, some saying immediate withdrawal.

I think there's differences with the semantics. But the truth is, I think, both Democrats and Republicans believe we need a strategy for success in Iraq.

VELSHI: Ed, I want to just put this up on the screen. Alcee Hastings from Florida said this: "The smartest thing Democrats could do is shut up. Let the Republicans implode, and let John Murtha carry the ball, because his credibility is impeccable."

Now, whether or not you agree with the actual wording of that, the fact of the matter is this has been a few missteps on the Republicans' part.

ED ROGERS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Hey, there's no question that things are not going according to plan in Iraq. And more of the same is undesirable. Things have got to be done different.

But what Donna said represents sort of the thoughtful, loyal opposition. And I think the Democrats are dividing themselves into three camps: the nuts, the confused, and the thoughtful opposition. And you're seeing who belongs where, even as we speak. John Murtha, thoughtful opposition.

VELSHI: Where does Cindy Sheehan fall into that? There are a number of people who thought that when she last disappeared from the news cycle in the summer we weren't going to see much more of her. Now she's back at Crawford. And you've got to wonder if the president doesn't like too much. Is she in that camp? What do you think about Cindy Sheehan?

BRAZILE: Well, I wouldn't describe anybody as a nut in this debate, but I would say that she's part of the loyal opposition. Look, Ms. Sheehan and others have the right to protest. They have a right to stand on the streets of Crawford and to put up their yard signs or whatever else they're doing and saying, you know, they disagree with this war and they believe that the president should bring their sons and daughters home.

That's her right. And I applaud her for doing it.

VELSHI: The president was over in China. It was a great opportunity to talk about trade and other things. But the Iraq stuff dogged him all the way there and all the way back.

Now we've got the administration talking a little bit about the circumstances under which they would consider some withdrawal. I think this week's going to look like a bit of a shift in tone. How are they going to handle that?

ROGERS: Well, I don't know if you're going to see so much a shift in tone but a shift in reality. I think it has underreported and understated the political progress that is being made in Iraq that's going to crescendo perhaps, in more ways than one, with the elections coming up later in December...

VELSHI: Right, we're starting to see...

(CROSSTALK)

ROGERS: ... where you will have a permanently elected government that will be able to assume more responsibility. More troops are in the pipeline; Iraqi troops are in the pipeline. It's underreported and understated how solid, secure and safe things are in the northern part of Iraq.

So who knows? The Democrats better be on the lookout for some good news.

VELSHI: And Barbara Starr was just talking a little earlier about how that December 15th -- the outcome of that election is going to be key in some of the decision-making about troop redeployment or recall.

BRAZILE: Well, Secretary Rice alluded to that the other day in an interview with John King here on CNN that, if everything goes as planned on December 15th, we're looking at some gradual withdrawal of troops in 2006.

Look, I don't know what was on the president's menu yesterday but perhaps he had a little humble pie, something that those of us from the South eat from time to time.

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: And if so -- not too much -- he can extend an olive branch to like Congressman Jack Murtha and say, "Look, Jack Murtha is a thoughtful colleague. He's been with this president, with the president's father on many other wars. Let's sit down. Let's come up with a strategy for success in Iraq." ROGERS: Yes, nobody wants the troops out quicker than President Bush. I mean, we're talking about the politics here. He's the only one paying a real political price. Nobody wants the troops out quicker than President Bush.

VELSHI: And if we have to go into a fourth Thanksgiving with troops there and this lack of clarity a year from now, that's going to start affecting him...

(CROSSTALK)

ROGERS: More of the same is undesirable. Will there be American troops in Iraq a year from now? Yes, there will.

BRAZILE: Ed and I agree that to stay the course is not an option that we can no longer consider. It's time that we have some real progress toward bringing home our troops and defeating the insurgents in Iraq.

VELSHI: As two folks who have been around Washington for a while, what do we think of Michael Brown's new venture to be disaster consultant?

BRAZILE: Well, he should allow -- first of all, I would put him to work and clean up all the debris, starting with all the refrigerators that had to be taken out of the homes, allowing those people to stay in water -- I will also give him the assignment of cleaning out the hospitals and the schools. That would be my pro bono work for Mr. Brown. Trust me. I have a lot of work for Michael Brown.

ROGERS: You know, in Washington, we have a rule: Never kick a man when he's up. And Michael Brown, he's made his mistakes, but let's move on and pick somebody else. He's paid a pretty big price. I hope he makes a living out there.

VELSHI: What do we see next week, Donna? Do we see a different discussion a week from now? Are we going to see -- you both said we don't want more of the same. Do you think we'll have emerged?

BRAZILE: No. Not until these elections are held on December 15th. And we'll see if the political settlement is coming to shape and there's an Iraqi government, the reconstruction is moving forward, and perhaps the insurgency has died down. That's the only time we'll change this debate, I believe.

ROGERS: And I think Washington -- we're going to chase each other around for a few more weeks. Washington will come back to work really after Christmas, the State of the Union, a new budget, some new initiatives. I don't think you'll see a whole lot of dramatic initiatives or change between now and the end of January.

VELSHI: Excellent to see you both. And have yourselves a great weekend.

BRAZILE: Thank you. ROGERS: Thanks a lot.

VELSHI: Republican strategist Ed Rogers and Democratic strategist and CNN political analyst Donna Brazile.

Well, coming up next, the president's twin daughters have reason to celebrate. They are on our "Political Radar."

Plus, a passionate appeal by actress and activist Angelina Jolie. You are in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Zain Verjee joins us now from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories that she's covering -- Zain?

VERJEE: Ali, for the first time, Palestinians have control of a border crossing. Under a deal brokered by the United States, the Palestinians now are in charge of a crossing between Gaza and Egypt. Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas opened the crossing today. The opening's expected to bolster the standing of Abbas as he faces a challenge from militant group Hamas in elections scheduled for January.

It's been another day without running water for millions in the Chinese city of Harbin. The government says it's sending a team to investigate a massive chemical spill. The chemicals polluted a river that's a major source of Harbin's water supply. And a Chinese newspaper is reporting that, in the southwestern part of the country, there's another chemical spill. And that forced the evacuation of 6,000 people.

Actress Angelina Jolie says millions of Pakistanis made homeless by October's earthquake need more help fast. She's a goodwill ambassador for the United Nations. She's just back from touring devastated regions of Kashmir. Aid officials say, with winter coming soon, many quake survivors are in danger of freezing to death.

Planes, trains and factories ground to a halt in Italy today. The nation's three largest unions staged a one-day strike. They're protesting spending cuts in Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's proposed budget. Italy's musicians are upset about cuts in arts spending. They plan to play Verdi's "Requiem" in cities across the country -- Ali?

VELSHI: Hey, Zain, you were talking about the folks in Pakistan, the ones that are without shelter, those that are injured. I mean, we've been talking to Karl Penhaul in Colombia. We know the weather's been tough here in the U.S. Now, these are people who are, in many cases, injured. We know their homes have been destroyed. We know it's winter there.

What's their status? What's going on with them?

VERJEE: 2.8 million people are displaced. There's still something like 70,000 people that have been seriously injured. Aid officials are saying half of those could die because of the winter cold. They anticipate it to be extremely severe. There are not enough tents; there are not enough blankets.

They say also that they're just not getting enough cash. There are more than $5.8 billion that has been pledged to help the victims in Pakistan. And they say that the money's not coming through. And they need that money soon -- Ali?

VELSHI: And the other thing that we've been watching very closely is this explosion in a factory in China that has been polluting the river that goes through Harbin. This is a very heavily populated area, city in China. It's moving its way through to Russia.

This has been an impact of heavy development in China. The Chinese government has sent a team of people, not just to examine it, but to discipline people. What do we know about that?

VERJEE: They're saying that they're looking into it. I mean, it's unclear exactly what the result of that is going to be. They say that they want to find out who's responsible for this. And they said that you can anticipate some severe reprimands and action to be taken soon.

VELSHI: All right, Zain, we'll check in with you continually over the course of the show. Zain Verjee in Atlanta.

On our "Political Radar" this Friday, you might think that Lewis Libby would lose his security clearance after being indicted in the CIA leak probe and quitting his job as Vice President Cheney's chief of staff. Not so, according to the "Wall Street Journal."

It reports that Libby's security clearance has, in fact, been extended. Now, that's thanks to Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald. The "Journal" says that the move gives Libby access to information that is, in fact, part of Fitzgerald's case.

Well, the president's twin daughters have at least one reason to celebrate today. It's their 24th birthday. As far as we know, Barbara and Jenna still are with their parents at the ranch in Crawford, Texas. The White House has been pretty mum on their plans today, but we are told the twins may have watched the big University of Texas versus Texas A&M football game. Jenna is a UT alum.

A former president tells CNN that America's kids are overweight. And he can say it, too, because Bill Clinton grew up a little chubby himself. Clinton tells Dr. Sanjay Gupta that he remembers being 5'8" and 185 pounds at the age of 13. Now, combating childhood obesity is one of his many causes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was overweight. You know, I was probably in the last generation of Americans where people widely thought a fat baby was a healthy baby. And I lived with my grandparents until I was four. My mother went back to nursing school after my father died, and they just stuffed me. And so I always battled my weight, all the way through school. Although I had pretty well gotten it down by the time I finished high school. I was 6'1" and weighed 192 pounds when I graduated from high school. That's about what I am now.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: How bad did it get? I mean, you know, obviously, and you've talked about this...

CLINTON: Oh, I was -- when I was 13, I was 5'8" and weighed 185 pounds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: You can hear more from the former president next hour here in THE SITUATION ROOM. And you can see the entire interview on fighting childhood obesity on "HOUSE CALL" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, tomorrow at 8:30 a.m., that's Eastern, or 5:30 Pacific.

Well, still to come, after the turkey are the leftovers. Bill Schneider joins us with more with those moments that American politicians would rather forget. That's at the top of the hour.

And it sure doesn't look like peace on Earth, good will toward men at some of the nation's shopping malls, on this, one of the busiest shopping days of the year. Stay with us on THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: On Thanksgiving, we feasted on the political turkeys of the year. And on this day after, we've got a hankering for leftovers. Here again is our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider.

SCHNEIDER: Well, Ali, most people are probably not finished picking over their Thanksgiving turkeys yet. Well, neither are we.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Yesterday, turkeys. Today, leftovers. They're the best part. Here's leftover turkey number five. Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska got very upset when the Senate threatened to take his cherished bridges to nowhere out of the federal budget.

SEN. TED STEVENS (R), ALASKA: I will put the Senate on notice. And I don't kid people. If the Senate decides to discriminate against our state and take money only from our state, I'll resign from this body.

SCHNEIDER: After a torrent of public protest about wasteful spending, the bridge projects were dropped from the budget, but not the funds. The money is still there, and so is Senator Stevens.

Here's a leftover turkey from the East Coast. Republican Jeanine Pirro opened her campaign against Senator Hillary Clinton in New York with quite a flourish. JEANINE PIRRO (R), NY CANDIDATE FOR SENATE: ... for the jobs that we entrust them with. Hillary Clinton -- I'm sorry. One moment. Do you have page 10? Who's got -- yes. Like so many New Yorkers, I am tired of the bickering that has tied our nation's political system in knots...

SCHNEIDER: Pirro's husband has served time in jail for tax fraud and has acknowledged fathering a child by another woman. Pirro says her campaign is about her, not her husband. But she has criticized her opponent's husband.

That would be former President Bill Clinton, who figures in leftover turkey number three, which would be hapless Democrat Freddy Ferrer running for mayor of New York.

How could a Democratic candidate be hapless in New York City, where Democrats outnumber Republicans five to one? Well, when Bill Clinton showed up to endorse Ferrer in October, nobody heard him. There was no sound system.

A week later, Clinton and Republican Mayor Michael Bloomberg met at a luncheon and had a friendly chat. Bloomberg made sure that got lots of publicity. Bloomberg defeated Ferrer by 20 points, a larger margin than fellow Republican Rudy Giuliani ever won by.

Leftover turkey number two: Congresswoman Jean Schmidt took to the House floor to transmit a caller's incendiary message to Iraq war critic John Murtha.

REP. JEAN SCHMIDT (R), OHIO: He asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, marines never do.

SCHNEIDER: "Coward"? Murtha is a former Marine colonel and decorated combat veteran. Schmidt moved to have her remarks stricken from the record.

And our leftover turkey of the year? That would be Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, who questioned other physicians' diagnosis of Terri Schiavo's condition from the Senate floor.

SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: And I question it, based on a review of the video footage which I spent an hour or so looking at last night in my office here in the Capitol. And that footage to me depicts something very different than persistent vegetative state.

SCHNEIDER: A diagnosis based on a videotape of a patient he had never examined? To paraphrase the holy Bible, politician, heal thyself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: Thanksgiving's over. Time to go shopping for next year's political turkeys. There's bound to be a lot of them in an election year, Ali. VELSHI: Bill, thanks so much. And we can count on Bill giving us our turkeys and our leftover every Thanksgiving. Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst.

Well, it's nearly 5:00 p.m. in Washington, and you are in THE SITUATION ROOM, where news and information from around the world arrive at one place at the same time.

Happening now, nearly 5:00 p.m. in New York. Stores there and across the country are packed with people on this critical shopping day. But the deep discounts are prompting some ugly incidents.

It's 4:00 p.m. in Cedar Grove, Wisconsin, the scene of a holiday tragedy. A father and his young daughter falling through the ice on a partially frozen pond. We'll get the latest from rescue officials on the scene.

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