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The Situation Room

Black Friday in Full Force; Saddam Hussein's Trial Set to Start Monday

Aired November 25, 2005 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: You are in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you the day's top stories.
Happening now: The buys, the brawls and the holiday shopping frenzy. Is this is any way to bolster the economy? We'll watch die- hard bargain hunters in action and talk live to a preacher, of sorts, who says, "Stop it."

Also this hour, booze-bashing in Oakland, California. Who is trashing the liquor stores? Is it a religious fight or a crime with dangerous consequences?

And you may not believe what former FEMA Director Michael Brown plans to do next. After the Hurricane Katrina debacle, is Brown ready for a new disaster?

I'm Ali Velshi. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. Wolf is off this evening.

It used to be known as the busiest shopping day of the year. Now we know it's probably not, but, still, millions of Americans are packing the stores across the country right now in a retail frenzy that started before dawn. CNN's Mary Snow live for us outside the Macy's flagship store in New York, where she has been since pretty early this morning.

What's it like right now?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ali, you know, a Friday night in New York, you wouldn't expect that shopping would be the number one thing to do. But shoppers still showing up.

Macy's opened for another two hours. When it closes its doors tonight, it expects that 125,000 shoppers will have gone through here today alone. It's offered, like so many other stores, deep discounts in a heated battle to attract customers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): In the black of night, Black Friday begins. It's the day by which retailers are generally out of the red, indicating losses, and finally turning a profit, or "in the black." It's not necessarily the busiest shopping day of the year, but it is a barometer for retailers as they head into the all-important holiday shopping season, which can account for as much as half of annual sales and profits.

Analysts say consumers are going into this season ready to spend, but with a sense of caution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 50 percent of them said they felt that the economy would improve or stay the same this year. That compares to about 75 percent a year ago. At the same time, about 70 percent of consumers said they intended to spend the same, if not more, this holiday season.

SNOW: Shoppers were out in force at Macy's flagship store in Manhattan with some 1,000 waiting when the doors opened at 6:00 a.m. For some, it was too much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are just thousands and thousands of people. I don't know how you can shop in there. My wife and my daughter are in there. So we're going to send in a rescue crew pretty soon.

SNOW: Elsewhere, the frenzy got out of control. Several people were trampled when the doors opened at 5:00 a.m. at this Wal-Mart near Grand Rapids, Michigan.

In Florida, a fight broke out among shoppers. And in Renton, Washington, police had to be called out when the crowd at this Wal- Mart got unruly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People saw that there is very limited supply, and so all their animal instincts, they came out, and they were behaving like animals.

SNOW: Some say it's all gotten out of control. A group called Adbusters has declared this "Buy Nothing Day." And the self-titled Church of Stop Shopping is planning what it calls a shop-acolypse tour, preaching against rabid consumerism.

Performance artist Bill Talen, who calls himself Reverend Billy, is the groups leader. He says Americans just spend too much.

BILL TALEN, PERFORMANCE ARTIST, ACTIVIST: Our leaders tell us that it's driving the economy. I don't think it's creating wealth. There are other kinds of economies to consider.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: And, Ali, it's estimated that, when this weekend is done, some 130 million people will have been out shopping, spending about $22 billion -- Ali?

VELSHI: Mary, you've succeeded in being in front of Macy's for hours and hours and hours and bought nothing. Good on you. And we will talk to you a little bit later. Mary Snow, outside of Macy's in Herald Square. We are going to talk more about Buy Nothing Day a little later this hour. The Reverend Billy, who was in Mary's story, and his stop shopping gospel choir will join us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Macy's is trying to make amends for the sisters who were hurt in a balloon accident at the Thanksgiving parade. Sarah and Mary Chamberlain have been invited to attend the parade next year and sit in the VIP section. And they've said yes.

Eleven-year-old Sarah took nine stitches to her head; 26-year-old Mary, who uses a wheelchair, suffered a bump on her forehead. And their dad, Stephen, is with us on the phone.

Stephen, thank you for joining us.

STEPHEN CHAMBERLAIN, DAUGHTERS INJURED AT PARADE: Hello, thank you.

VELSHI: Stephen, earlier we heard you saying that this was an accident, accidents do happen, and you and your family are happy to move past it. Tell me a bit about how you came to that conclusion.

CHAMBERLAIN: Pardon? I didn't catch it.

VELSHI: You feel that everybody responded very well to this, and you're happy to move past it.

CHAMBERLAIN: OK, yes. The EMTs and the police were wonderful. The people from Macy's were wonderful. We were fortunate that the section we chose to sit in -- I mean, if you were going to have an accident, there was the place to be, because there were clearly lots of off-duty police officers. And people were willing to just jump right in and help out, and they did.

VELSHI: Stephen, right now, we've got a picture on the screen of the lamp that came down. And I've got to tell you, most people, myself included, see that and see that it fell down, and we kind of think this looked more serious than it ended up being. It looked like that could have been quite tragic.

CHAMBERLAIN: Yes, I mean, six inches either way and I think it would have been a much different story. You know, but we're just fortunate that the girls OK, you know, minor injuries and, you know, we count our blessings (OFF-MIKE) almost miraculous that they got away with just a, you know, bump on the forehead and just a laceration on the scalp.

VELSHI: You said earlier that you are not going to pursue any legal action and, obviously, that's where a lot of people's minds go initially when this sort of thing happens. Tell me a little about that decision.

CHAMBERLAIN: Well, that's -- you know, the girls are OK. That's it, you know? And it was an accident. It's not like it's something that anyone should want to try and profit from.

I've told others that, you know, to try and profit from something like that is just dishonest, and we're not that type of family. Our daughters are fine and, like I said, that's what counts to us. VELSHI: Stephen Chamberlain, we'll leave it there. Thank you for being with us. Our best wishes to your family and a speedy recovery to your daughters. Stephen Chamberlain, the father of the two girls who were injured in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade yesterday.

This just coming in to CNN. A busy California interstate is shut down in one direction. CNN is hearing from its affiliates the reason for that shutdown is that a California Highway Patrol officer has been shot.

These pictures are coming in from our affiliate, KCAL, which has a helicopter flying over the scene. Now, we are told that this happened in Ontario, California, on Interstate 15, just after 3:00 p.m. Pacific time, 6:00 p.m. Eastern time. We're efforting more information and, as soon as we get it, we'll bring it to you.

Well, it's been dogged by controversy and marred by murders, but still the trial of Saddam Hussein is set to get under way again in Baghdad on Monday. Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, is in the Iraqi capital with us for a preview.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's taken a good degree of backroom negotiations to get the trial back on. Reason why: Two defense lawyers have been killed in targeted assassinations, another one wounded. Defense lawyers said, unless we get security, we're not coming back. That, apparently, has been dealt with, as were their concerns that there was not going to be a thorough investigation.

What can we expect? We can expect witnesses as early as the first day. Not clear if they'll be appearing on the stand or whether they'll do it from behind screens or perhaps by a video link, so that they can keep their anonymity.

Also, the court, just in case the lawyers don't show up, will have standby lawyers on hand. What has happened, since the first day of the trial, about 40 days ago, one witness gave testimony in hospital.

One of Saddam Hussein's senior intelligence officers, with key information, was dying of cancer, in fact, has subsequently died. He was interviewed, gave his statement in hospital. The court felt they needed that, just in case it wasn't available for the court or for the court date. He is now dead. They have that testimony.

But do expect this court case now to move on quite fast.

Back to you, Ali.

VELSHI: Thanks, Nic.

More than 100,000 servicemen and women spent Thanksgiving in Iraq. And most will be there through the upcoming holidays. We asked CNN's Aneesh Raman how their morale is doing. He's embedded with troops in central Iraq. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As the holiday season gets under way back home, no break for U.S. troops, as they continue to push back against the insurgency and try and stabilize Iraq ahead of the country's December 15th general election.

We are embedded with members of the Third ACR in the northern part of Babil province, an area known as the triangle of death. On Thanksgiving Day in this area alone, four U.S. soldiers were wounded in a car bomb attack, one U.S. soldier was killed after his Abrams tank hit, and two others were killed after an IED exploded.

And when you're embedded with these troops, you really get a sense of the weight that these attacks have on the shoulders of those that they serve with. And you also get respect for their ability to put that aside and continue the mission, as they must, and go out on operations.

The debate back home might be raging but, for the U.S. soldiers who are here on the front lines, that all means very little. They are here until they are told to be here no more. And they will continue to pushback against the insurgency, ahead of that critical date, the December 15th elections.

Aneesh Raman, CNN, Northern Babil province, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI: Let's take you to CNN Center in Atlanta. Zain Verjee is standing by with a closer look at other stories making news.

Hello, Zain.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hi, Ali.

As the holiday shopping season begins, there's a warning from the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI: Shopping malls can be attractive targets for terrorists. But government officials say the warning is routine. They say they know of no specific threats to any shopping malls. One official said this, "This is a pro forma thing."

It was supposed to be a pleasant outing for a father and his daughters, age 6 and 9. They were skating on a pond in Wisconsin. Then, as the 6-year-old watched, the 9-year-old fell through the ice. The father tried to rescue her. Both are dead. It happened in Cedar Grove about 30 miles from Milwaukee.

Actor Pat Morita is dead. Morita is probably best known for his Oscar-nominated role as Mr. Miyagi, in the 1984 film "The Karate Kid." He overcame childhood illness and detention in a World War II internment camp for Japanese-Americans. Morita's manager said the cause of death was kidney failure. He was 73.

They've already done the Christmas tree shopping at the White House. Two trees began the journey to Washington from the Smoky Hollow Tree Farm in North Carolina today. One tree is for the blue room, the other for the presidential living quarters.

And, Ali, for millions of children, they're good, harmless fun, but police in Oregon say that, for one older fan, Legos were the building blocks of crime.

Now, here's how police say the Lego trafficking scheme worked. William Swanberg allegedly switched the bar codes on Lego sets at Target stores and police say that he'd buy expensive Lego sets at the lower price and then resell them on the Internet.

And just on another side note, I don't know if you know where the word Lego came from. I actually just learned that today.

VELSHI: It's some kind of Swedish word or something?

VERJEE: Close, Danish.

VELSHI: Danish.

VERJEE: Yes, because Lego was, you know, invented by a Danish guy. And he basically fused two Danish words, "leg got" (ph), which means "play well." So I thought, in case of emergency, you should know that.

VELSHI: Yes, it's always good information to know. Apparently, the guy who was switching the bar codes wasn't doing that.

Zain, good to see you. We'll check in with you later. Zain Verjee, CNN Center in Atlanta.

Coming up, many Americans have been shopping today like there's no tomorrow. But some critics aren't buying into the post- Thanksgiving shopping spree. We're going to talk to the head of the self-proclaimed Church of Stop Shopping.

Also ahead, how far would and should religious groups go to keep their flocks from boozing? Tough questions, after one liquor store was trashed.

And later, if at first you don't succeed, should former FEMA Director Michael Brown get back into the disaster response business? You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: All right, we heard a little from him earlier as he preached against rampant consumerism. He's a performance artist, which you'll notice very clearly in a second, but he's an activist. Bill Talen joins us now. You might know him better as Reverend Billy.

He's backed up by his Stop Shopping Gospel Choir, on a mission that it's unclear a lot of people in New York City right now are listening to.

Reverend Billy, what is the mission? What is it you're trying to tell people? Tell me as quickly as you can what that is. BILL TALEN, PERFORMANCE ARTIST, ACTIVIST: Brother Ali, today is Buy Nothing Day, hey, man. And we're trying to slow down New Yorkers, trying to get them to slow down their consumption, amen. We're addicted, we're conflicted, we're hypnotized, consumerized...

VELSHI: You may be right, Brother...

TALEN: Amen.

VELSHI: ... Reverend Billy, you may be right, but a lot of jobs and a lot of the economy moves on the basis of people buying things. What do you do by stopping that? Tell me how you make up for that.

TALEN: Brother Ali, what kind of jobs are you talking about? You're talking about the $7.58 an hour job at Wal-Mart? Those aren't jobs.

VELSHI: They employ a lot of people. What do they do if they don't sell...

TALEN: We're talking about getting back to another kind of economy here.

VELSHI: What kind of economy are you talking about?

TALEN: We're asking people: Find a way to give a gift that gives some business to your local, independent shops. You don't have get into your SUV, and go out on the interstate, and have a petroleum- intense experience. You don't have to add to the $600 billion in credit card debts we already have...

VELSHI: Right. So you don't mind that people go out and shop for Christmas?

TALEN: Walk down to your independent shop. Brother Ali, I'm sorry, go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: You don't mind that people go out and buy things? You're just a little concerned at how far it goes?

TALEN: Well, we're saying big boxes, no. Chain stores, no. Independent shops.

VELSHI: Right.

TALEN: Something you can walk to, Brother Ali.

VELSHI: Now who pays for you to go around the country...

TALEN: Something you can get to on a bicycle.

VELSHI: ... and do this?

TALEN: Couple days from now, we're getting into two bio-diesel buses...

VELSHI: Right.

TALEN: ... the Stop Shopping Gospel Choir, myself...

VELSHI: But someone buys those bio-diesel buses, or rents them, or pays for the fuel. Who pays for you to go across the country with the choir?

TALEN: It's bio-diesel. It's bio-diesel. It's bio-diesel. And we've been collecting money all year from our friends, from our church people.

VELSHI: Right.

TALEN: People on the street. We got some people right here going to help us on our trip.

VELSHI: But you get your money from donations?

TALEN: It's the shop-acolypse tour.

VELSHI: You get your money from donations from people who support you or are there organizations that support what you're doing?

TALEN: That's right. That's right. Maybe you'll help us, Brother Ali.

VELSHI: Are there corporations or organizations...

TALEN: It's the shop-acolypse tour.

VELSHI: ... that support what you're doing?

TALEN: No, they're trying to stop us. We'll be out in the parking lots of the Wal-Marts, and the Starbucks, and the super malls, in Cleveland, Chicago, the twin cities, Iowa, Kansas, Arkansas...

VELSHI: All right.

TALEN: ... Nebraska, Dallas, Texas, Las Vegas, Flagstaff...

VELSHI: Reverend Billy, all the best to you. And stay warmer than you look right now. It's cold out there.

TALEN: Stop shopping, Brother Ali, please! Stop your shopping!

VELSHI: I have had no time to shop today, Reverend Billy. I've been reporting on all the shopping today.

TALEN: Give up your credit card. Hallelujah!

VELSHI: That's Reverend Billy and the Stop Shopping Choir in New York.

TALEN: Change-alujah, Brother Ali! VELSHI: Still to come in THE SITUATION ROOM, a shattered business and a religious campaign against liquor. Find out who's bashing booze and who's suffering from it.

And a new way to spread the gospel to kids who can't get enough of video games. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: All right. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. Let's have a look at other some stories making news around the world. At the CNN Center in Atlanta, here is Sister Zain Verjee.

VERJEE: Brother Ali, Brother Ali. When are you going to buy more waist-coasts? That's what I want to know.

VELSHI: Yes, yes, no, stop shopping.

VERJEE: How many vests do you have?

VELSHI: Several. Several.

VERJEE: Yes?

VELSHI: But I'm not going to buy any more today.

VERJEE: All right. Well, the government of Colombia, Ali, continues to urge residents in the southeastern part of the country to evacuate. About 9,000 people have been told to leave the area around the Galeras volcano, which erupted on Thursday. Colombian officials say the eruption was stronger than those which took place in August and in September.

Truckloads of charcoal streamed into Harbin in northern China today. They're going to be used to filter drinking water, which was contaminated by a massive chemical spill. There's been no running water for millions of people in the city. A team of government investigators is also heading for Harbin, and China's official news agency says those responsible for the spill will be punished.

For many British soccer fans, the name was also an apt description. George Best, the soccer star, died today at the age of 59. British Prime Minister Tony Blair called Best probably the most naturally gifted footballer of his generation. But along with the gift came the curse of alcoholism. Best died of multiple organ failure.

Germany's new chancellor, Angela Merkel, is settling into her first days in office. But here in the U.S., a female president is still just a hope for many women and not a reality. Other countries are breaking that glass ceiling before the United States, and it turns out that a continent many Americans think of as the third world is far more advanced in electing women to top spots.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) VERJEE (voice-over): Africa's iron lady, Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf, a Harvard-educated economist, has become Liberia's new president, the continent's first democratically elected female leader.

African women are emerging as a powerful force in politics, national security, and economics, claiming what has traditionally been male turf.

Zimbabwe's vice president is a woman. South Africa's deputy president is a woman. Mozambique's prime minister is a woman. Nigeria's finance minister is a woman.

According to the United Nations, in Africa, the most positive change seen is woman's political participation. The 1995 Fourth World Conference on Women called for parliaments around the world to have at least 30 percent of their members be women. Ten years later, only 19 countries have met that target, but four of them are in Africa.

Rwanda is tied with Sweden for the highest percentage in the world. Nearly half of the members of Rwanda's parliament are women; that's about three times greater than the percentage of women in the U.S. Congress, which is a little less than the world average of 15 percent.

Experts say affirmative action programs in African countries have led to more women in parliament. African women are also increasingly well-educated and capable.

African women are shaping the future of their countries and reshaping the global image of Africa, that Africa is not just about poverty, disease, starvation and civil war, but it's also a vibrant civil society, with African women becoming more involved.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: Perhaps Africa will turn out to be a model for the United States. Three years from now, after all, both Senator Hillary Clinton and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice have been widely mentioned as possible presidential contenders in 2008.

And, Ali, we'll just have to see.

VELSHI: It is incredible, when you put that list together, to see how many women there are. But we both know that it's not -- it doesn't always filter through to the grassroots. It doesn't correlate. Women don't enjoy that station in life all across Africa, that that list of names that you put forth would suggest.

VERJEE: Yes, no, that's a really good point. There are instances in many African countries where it has filtered down, really, to the grassroots. What you have is a situation where a lot of the men will leave their villages to the big cities and they'll be looking for work, and you're left with a lot of women back in villages that take a greater role in the decision-making of those villages. And, essentially, even at that level on the ground, they are laying the groundwork for an acceptance in their own role in a patriarchal society.

I mean, someone like Wangari Maathai, she won the Nobel Peace Prize. She's from Kenya. You remember that. You know, I mean, she was really acknowledged for that kind of grassroots activism and environmentalism at that level with women in villages across Kenya. I used it work with her in another line.

VELSHI: Yes, it's a fascinating story. It's good to bring it to our attention, because you don't make those associations.

Zain, good to see you. Thank you.

VERJEE: Thanks, Ali.

VELSHI: Zain Verjee in Atlanta.

Well, just ahead, smash but no grab. Is this the way to protest the sale of liquor in communities where some people oppose it? Well, some people think so. We're going to explain that a little more after the break.

And after the Hurricane Katrina debacle, he put himself at the center of the controversy. President Bush put him out in the cold. And comedians put him at the end of their punch lines. Now there's word that Michael Brown is set to have the last laugh.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK

VELSHI: Lots going on in California this day after Thanksgiving. Right now police in Oakland, California, have sending extra patrols through some neighborhoods after two liquor stores were trashed earlier this week.

Local authorities say they are looking into the incidents as possible hate crimes since store owners were Arab or Arab-American. But religious beliefs may have actually been at play. CNN's Chris Lawrence has been following this story from Los Angeles. Chris, good to see you. What is going on here?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ali, the store owners tell us that these men caused more than $10,000 in damage and targeted them because they're Muslims who sell alcohol. That's just one of the reasons police are investigating this as a possible hate crime.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE (voice-over): At first look, what you see on the surveillance video doesn't seem to fit. Ten men wearing clean suits and bow ties, smashing bottles and glass all over this Oakland, California, liquor store.

KALED SALEH, SON LIQUOR STORE OWNER: When they first walked in I thought they were a bunch of, you know, church people.

LAWRENCE: Kaled Saleh was on duty Thursday night. He says, one of the men asked him, as a Muslim, how could he run a store like this. SALEH: They said we're not supposed to be selling liquor.

LAWRENCE: And then they attacked. One man jumped over the counter and tore bottles off the shelves. Others waited for a command and then destroyed entire walls full of liquor. The owners say they were accused of selling poison to the black community.

SGT. DOM AROTZARENA, OAKLAND POLICE DEPT.: Despite what anybody said, this is a crime. This is not an act of helping out a neighborhood, this is a crime.

LAWRENCE: This isn't the first time groups have tried to shut down liquor stores on the basis of religion, but earlier efforts were peaceful. In Chicago, a pastor led a successful 1998 campaign to close 26 liquor stores in his neighborhood.

In Philadelphia, another pastor tried to attract a convenience store chain as competition to force out a nearby liquor store. And several churches in Selma, Alabama, have been fighting a city council decision that allows a liquor store to open among them.

Dr. John J. Hunter is the senior minister of 1st AME Church in Los Angeles, and says liquor sales have damaged communities like his.

REV. JOHN J. HUNTER, 1ST AME CHURCH: It's immoral. It -- the there are many people that are driven by profit only, but responsible corporate citizens, responsible businesspersons, look beyond just merely the bottom line of profit.

LAWRENCE: The reverend says religious groups have an obligation to speak out about the damage these liquor stores can cause. In Oakland, police say the men attacked one store, then moved on to another.

"TONY": What they did is like gang member stuff and, like, you know, it's like, it's not right.

LAWRENCE: The owner of that second store says his name is Tony and he won't back down from these attacks.

"TONY", LIQUOR STORE OWNER: We got God. God judge us, they can't judge us. They're not going it be able to force me to stop selling it if I want to sell it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: Now, the men in that video wore suits and bow ties. That's the traditional outfit of the Nation of Islam, but they never identified themselves as members. And the Oakland office says these men are not and have never been members of the Nation of Islam -- Ali.

VELSHI: Yes, Chris. In fact, one thing that the Nation of Islam says is they'll probably have a press conference tomorrow to restate that, but it continues to be a complex problem, Chris.

And the gentleman in your story, Pastor John Hunter, joins us now. Let's talk a little bit more about religion and liquor in the African-American community with Reverend John Hunter. He is the pastor of the 1st African Methodist Episcopal Church in south Los Angeles, with a parish of about 18,000 members.

Pastor Hunter, thank you for joining us. I want to make clear that while you were standing in position in the story, you're not at all defending anybody going in and trashing these stores.

HUNTER: No. We don't defend the methodology. We are sympathetic to the rationale and the reason and the frustration behind what has taken place.

VELSHI: Let's talk about that a little bit. What's the reason? What's the thing that you object to? Because anybody selling liquor isn't committing a crime, they're in business and they're doing that.

HUNTER: I think there's a distinction that must first be made between the selling of liquor in general and the selling of high alcohol content beverages, which are designed to get people quickly inebriated, to get people quickly lit. This is not for the wine connoisseurs.

And the sellers of these beverages are very much well aware of who consumes them. They're aware of the customer, in some cases, in some communities, homeless populations. In other instances, underemployed or unemployed individuals and so, they're very much aware of the detriment that it does.

VELSHI: Now, for our viewers, who aren't -- I mean, this is an age old issue and for those of you who aren't aware of it, you're talking about high alcohol content. What are you talking about? You're talking about these malt liquor beverages?

HUNTER: Exactly. The malt beverage liquors, the MD 20/20s, the, you know, Colt 45s -- those kind of beverages and the responsibility starts with the manufacturer, first of all, who understands who is buying it and what effect it's having. And then these store owners have every right to make a profit selling legitimate goods, not liquor to minors, not cigarettes to minors.

The crime often that is associated with the sale of these liquors and with the consumption of them in the vicinity and in the neighborhood in which they're sold and consumed, many of these -- in fact, I would dare say the majority of the store owners -- do not reside in the communities in which they're selling these products.

VELSHI: Pastor, you are ...

HUNTER: So, it's ...

VELSHI: Sorry to interrupt you. There are a number of people, I'm sure, in this country, who would support the view that we can try and not encourage irresponsible drinking, but you are a parish leader, a respected parish leader who many people listen to.

It is clear that you don't think -- that you are not encouraging or supporting the idea that as wrong as it might be, that people should be going into liquor stores or delis that sell these drinks and be committing violent acts?

HUNTER: Oh, no. Absolutely not. We're not approving in any way the violence and the destruction of property and the lawlessness, the methodology being used to protest what is going on in Oakland and other communities.

And I think as you enumerated, different pastors and different community leaders have been successful in working with other civic leaders to bring an end to the existence of these kinds of businesses in inner cities.

And I think that is the route that is most effective and, obviously has the long-term effect of building the kind of productive, economic vehicles that allow inner city residents, African-Americans, Latinos to be the economic beneficiaries of economic development and initiatives in their communities and not just the targets for those that would use vices that are ultimately destructive.

VELSHI: Pastor, these shops that sell these beverages, these alcoholic beverages in center cities, urban areas across the country, they are still small businesses. Have you heard a proposal?

Have you got a proposal to put forward as to what these small business owners are meant to do if they are going to get out of this lucrative business of selling a lot of liquor to people who buy them?

HUNTER: And, again, there are many things in our society that are legal, but are not healthy and are not moral. It's not always easy to change city ordinances or codes as it relates to the selling of specific products.

However, I think all of us are aware that there are certain products that play on the weaknesses, play on those who are most vulnerable. And the manufacturing, the selling, the marketing of these particular alcoholic beverages clearly is being sold to those, in many cases, who are least advantages and many times prone to engage in activities or have an alcoholic kind of problem.

Many times homeless communities are targeted and, again, it's the poisoning of a community with the selling of these kind of beverages that is not necessary to make a profit. These stores sell legitimate items that are healthy and are of an advantage to the community and in this particular instance they have put profit over people.

VELSHI: Pastor Hunter ...

HUNTER: And they have put -- yes, sir.

VELSHI: Thank you for joining us, it's a good discussion and we'll have another opportunity, I hope, to continue it. It's a big issue. Pastor John Hunter of the 1st AME Church in south Los Angeles joining us from Los Angeles.

Well, up next, it'll make an interesting job ad. Ex-disaster specialist blasted for botching a major disaster, then let go, now available for your service. Coming up, is Brownie really ready for hire?

And sleeping giant, that volcano in Colombia awakened over the past few days is back at rest. There are still some risks. Our Karl Penhaul is in the hot zone at the base of the mountain.

We are in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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VELSHI: When Michael Brown famously resigned as FEMA director, most people would have presumed that his days of dealing with natural disasters were over. But maybe not. CNN's Joe Johns is here with word of Brown's latest venture. Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ali, well, Michael Brown's work and his record came under scrutiny and attack this year after Hurricane Katrina. But now that he's no longer FEMA director, Brown is apparently trying to remake himself as a consultant, specializing in the field of emergency preparedness.

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JOHNS (voice-over): He was the face of the federal response to Hurricane Katrina, blamed for many failures, perhaps even vilified, but Michael Brown was always defiant of his critics and willing to pass the buck.

MICHAEL BROWN, FORMER FEMA DIRECTOR: My biggest mistake was not recognizing by Saturday that Louisiana was dysfunctional.

JOHNS: Now a published report says he wants to cash in on his experience. He's setting himself up as a consultant with offices in Washington, D.C., and the Denver area, according to "The Rocky Mountain News," which quotes him as saying, "Look, Hurricane Katrina showed how bad disasters can be, and there's an incredible need for individuals and businesses to understand how important preparedness is. So if I can help people focus on preparedness, how to be better prepared in their homes and better prepared in their businesses -- because that goes straight to the bottom line -- then I hope I can help the country in some way."

In a way, the former FEMA director is just doing what comes naturally for specialized top level former employees of the government. Former FEMA directors James Lee Witt and Joe Allbaugh both basically did the same thing.

People we spoke with in the preparedness consultant business wouldn't go on camera today but did say Michael Brown's record could certainly set him apart from the others, especially because he was raked over the coals by members of Congress.

REP. JOHN DINGELL (D), MICHIGAN: Mr. Brown was regrettably an administrator or an officer or the head of an Arabian Horse Association, hardly qualifying him to address the kind of problems he's looking at now.

JOHNS: Still experts say a guy like Brown might make money as an emergency preparedness consultant because he knows the system and the people in power in Washington right now. Private companies might want to hire him to help them deal with the federal bureaucracy that he recently left.

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JOHNS (on camera): Now we did try to reach Michael Brown today to talk about this new career move. So far though, we have been unsuccessful. Ali?

VELSHI: You will inform us when you do talk about this.

JOHNS: Unless it's really late at night.

VELSHI: Love to hear the rest of it. Joe Johns, we'll be working lots actually. We'll be together on "ON THE STORY," which you can see on CNN on Saturday nights and Sunday afternoons.

Joe, thank you for being with us.

And while we're on the topic of New Orleans, it takes another step on the road to recovery. The city zoo opened today for the first time since it was hit by Hurricane Katrina. Thousands of people were there for the reopening. So many were in tears, that the zoo actually stationed greeters at the front gates to give visitors hugs.

Well, up next, a volcano that could erupt at any moment, so why aren't those who live in the area leaving? We'll tell you about that.

And video games, with a spiritual twist. Space-based fun when THE SITUATION ROOM returns.

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VELSHI: Well, yesterday covered a nearby city with ash, today a volcano in Colombia has been putting out columns of smoke all day. It could erupt again.

CNN's Karl Penhaul is live in Genoy, Colombia. Karl, you are now in a village with a number of people who, I guess, aren't leaving the city in preparation?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're certainly not leaving. They say that this volcano is their friend, not their enemy. They say they've been living in the shadow of this volcano all their lives and they don't see the danger.

And what, in fact, they've done is brought out some statues of the Virgin Mary from the church and they put them here, just at one side of the square. And what they do at 4:00 in the morning, they process around the village with the Virgin Mary, and now in the course of the evening, a number of the villagers have been coming up and saying prayers in front of this make makeshift shrine, and even two days ago, Ali, what they say is that they took a blanket that they usually wrap the virgin in, and they walked up the crater of the volcano and tossed that blanket into the carter. And this is their way of praying to the volcano, praying to the Virgin Mary, and this is why they believe they'll stay safe, and which is why they're not evacuating, Ali.

VELSHI: Karl, and I guess there's some support for that, in that the study of volcanoes and when they erupt is something of an inexact science, but there is some science to it, and there are volcano experts there. Do they support the view of the villagers?

PENHAUL: Not at all. The volcano experts flew over the crater of the volcano this morning. They've dropped the alert level to a level two, but what that, in effect, means is there could be a significant eruption within days, they say. What the experts told us when they flew over today, they could see vapor mixed with sulfur dioxide, clouds, carbon monoxide clouds coming out of the fissures in that crater. They could also see magma and lava bubbling under. And what they say is the worst danger is those pyroclastic clouds, clouds of boiling hot vapor up to 1,400 degrees Fahrenheit could come rolling down that volcano any minute and burn almost everything in this path, Ali.

VELSHI: All right, Karl, you have a lot of experience with this, but stay safe, nonetheless. Karl Penhaul in Colombia, at the base of that volcano.

Let's find out what's coming up at the top of the hour on "PAULA ZAHN NOW." The intrepid Heidi Collins filling in for Paula tonight with a look ahead -- Heidi.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Ali, thanks a lot. Tonight, we are going to take an extended look at a controversy that is turning classrooms all across the country upside down. A lot of people think intelligent design deserves to be taught right alongside of the theory of evolution. We'll see how evolution supporters are fighting back.

We'll also meet one of intelligent design's biggest supporters. He is a professor at a well-known university, who some colleagues consider to be an embarrassment. So join me at the top of the hour. We're sure it will spark some lively discussions -- Ali.

VELSHI: Heidi, you're finishing up too late tonight to get any of your shopping done, I assume you didn't get a piece of this holiday shopping kickoff shopping?

COLLINS: No. I'm an Internet shopper anyway.

VELSHI: Yeah, it's making -- we're all becoming Internet shoppers with these shifts.

COLLINS: This is true. VELSHI: Good to see you, Heidi. Have a great weekend.

COLLINS: You too.

VELSHI: Heidi Collins in New York.

Still ahead, religious video games. Parents find alternative ways to entertain their kids. We're going to have that story. Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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VELSHI: Here's a look at some of the hot shots coming in from the Associated Press. Now, these are pictures that you're likely to see in your newspaper tomorrow.

In Beijing, Chinese special forces give the media a rare glimpse at security exercises. They're preparing for the 2008 Olympics, and they're training for riots and terrorism.

To the West Bank now. An Israeli policeman faints after demonstrators throw tear gas. The protest was over a barrier that Israel is building to protect against terrorists. Palestinians say it allows Israel to take some of their land.

In Ethiopia, baby cheetah fight. These two cubs are tied to a fence and forced to fight each other for local amusement. U.S. troops and local officials are pressing the owner to set them free.

In Pakistan, Angelina Jolie acts as a goodwill ambassador. She's there with Brad Pitt, visiting areas hit by the October earthquake that killed more than 80,000 people. Jolie appealed to donors to quickly make good on promised aid.

And that's today's hot shots. Those are pictures worth a thousand words.

Well, attention, parents of video-game-addicted children. Imagine a video game packed with action, battle scenes and mild violence that you actually approve of. And you might even play yourself. Here's CNN's Dan Lothian in Boston.

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DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sixteen-year-old Vincent Trillich can't get enough of his computer games. There's plenty of action, drama, adventure, but it's not what you'd expect.

VINCENT TRILLICH, GAME PLAYER: Some of those games where there is blood flying everywhere, these aren't those kind of games.

LOTHIAN: Catechumen and Ominous Horizons are religious games that Vincent's mother not only approves of, but also plays.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, when I'm buying games, I want games that I wouldn't mind playing, and that I have no compunction against allowing my son to play.

LOTHIAN: In Catechumen, the player defeats the forces of evil, to rescue captured Christians from Roman soldiers.

The Trillich family from Grosse Point Park, Michigan, is not unique. Controversial violent video games have left some parents asking for something different.

(on camera): Now, a new generation of Christian programmers is answering the call, delivering a product with cutting-edge action and a Christian message, that they hope will also appeal to the mainstream.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been very careful to make sure the game is not preachy and it's not cheesy in any way, as well. It is going to be a fun game to play.

LOTHIAN: Trinisis' (ph) fantasy role-playing game called Orion is due out next year. Other companies are rolling out similar product too.

Oku Sugawara (ph), who covered this issue for "Game Pro" magazine says unlike religious games of the past, the quality of these new titles are on par with some mainstream games.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was really surprising to see that Christian games are starting to catch up.

LOTHIAN: And while not glorifying violence, some of these games do feature guns and deaths and explosions. Programmers say the context is spiritual warfare, often ripped from the pages of the Bible.

It's a small industry now, but some believe could soon explode. A growing movement aimed at the same audience that embraced the mega blockbuster "The Passion of the Christ."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do believe there is a spiritual hunger out there for spiritually-themed products.

LOTHIAN: Experts say it's too early to tell if these religious games will be embraced by the masses, but back in Michigan, the Trillich family is sold.

TRILLICH: They seem like normal games.

LOTHIAN: But in tune with their values.

Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.

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VELSHI: Well, thank you for joining us. Don't forget that from now on, we're in THE SITUATION ROOM every weekday at this time, from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern, and 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. Eastern. I'm Ali Velshi. I'll see you again this weekend on "ON THE STORY." You can see that on Saturday nights and Sunday afternoons on CNN. And join Wolf Blitzer for "LATE EDITION" this Sunday at 11:00 a.m. Eastern. Among his guests, the Iraqi national security advisor.

Now, you can pick it up with Heidi Collins. She's in New York, with "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

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