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The Situation Room
Bush to Press Immigration Plan in Arizona; USNA Address to Focus on Iraq; Cunningham Pleads Guilty
Aired November 28, 2005 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
Happening now, President Bush near the border. It's 2:00 p.m. in Tucson, Arizona, where Mr. Bush gives a big speech on immigration this hour. We'll carry it live and look at the fine line he's trying to walk to shore up his security and his political base.
Also this hour, Iraq trials. It's midnight Tuesday in Iraq, where Saddam Hussein was back on the stand today. Back here in the United States, is the president planning any big announcement about the status of American troops?
And courting controversy. It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington, where there's new evidence that Karl Rove still is a focus of the CIA leak investigation. And in a separate case, a Republican Congressman pleads guilty to taking bribes and resigns. Now will Democrats pounce?
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Up first, America's border with Mexico as a frontline for national security and a flash point for the president's party. Mr. Bush gives a speech in Arizona this hour, aimed at trying to build support for his immigration policy, especially among wary conservatives. We'll bring you the speech live.
Our Elaine Quijano is in Tucson, our Bill Schneider is here in Washington. Let's get the latest from Elaine with a little preview of what we can expect to hear from the president -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, after facing strong criticism from conservative Republicans who want to hear some tougher talk about border security from President Bush, the president is getting set to do just that here at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona.
Now, earlier this afternoon, President Bush left his Texas ranch, where he spent the Thanksgiving holiday weekend. But here in Arizona and tomorrow in El Paso, Texas, the president's main message: that his administration does take border security seriously. And we see behind us, we should mention, President Bush arriving apparently on Air Force One, landing as I speak.
But a senior administration official says that Mr. Bush is expected to talk about additional resources and the use of technology in order to secure the border. He'll also try to frame the debate within the context of national security, as well as the economy. The president is also expected to address enforcement, including returning illegal immigrants from Mexico to more interior parts of the country rather than just to the other side of the border.
At the same time, Mr. Bush, a Texas governor, is expected to reprise his call for a temporary worker program, a program that would allow illegal immigrants the chance to obtain legal status. Now, that proposal, of course, has come under heavy fire from conservatives who see it as Amnesty.
But the president does have a delicate balance to strike there. Of course, other key components of his base to consider including big business, which counts on immigrants for sources for labor, as well as Hispanics. One GOP analyst I spoke with over the weekend saying that the president has to deliver that get tough message without alienating that key component of his base. And, Wolf, all of this, of course, happening against the backdrop of the '06 elections -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Elaine Quijano, reporting for us. We'll get back with you shortly. When the president gives his immigration speech, we'll go there live. Expected to start around 4:45 p.m. Eastern here in THE SITUATION ROOM, about 40 minutes or so from now.
Let's get some more on the politics behind the president's speech and the very different audiences he's playing to today. Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider is joining us with more -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, can President Bush pull off a difficult political balancing act? We'll see this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): On the immigration issue, President Bush has to pull off a political balancing act worthy of the flying Wallendas. Can he do it? On the one hand, the president has always made Hispanic outreach a priority.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: (SPEAKING IN SPANISH)
SCHNEIDER: On the other hand, conservatives are in open revolt against President Bush's call for a guest worker program, which they regard as amnesty for lawbreakers. A president who's in political trouble can't afford to alienate his base. They're all he's got.
How far apart are Hispanics and conservatives? In June, the Gallup poll asked whether the U.S. should make it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens. Seventy percent of Hispanics said yes. Eighty percent of conservatives said no. Where was the American public as a whole? Closer to the conservative position. Seventy percent, no.
FRANK SHARRY, NATIONAL IMMIGRATION FORUM: The big question, the elephant in the middle of the room, is the 11 million here illegally.
SCHNEIDER: By nearly two to one, the public opposes a guest worker program that would allow illegal immigrants to apply for work permits. The only way President Bush can sell his guest worker program is to balance it with more effective enforcement.
SHARRY: Tough on the border, tough on employers, legal channels for the future and a solution for the 11 million. How do you put that together?
SCHNEIDER: Because on the third hand -- see, we told you this was a complicated balancing act -- President Bush has to worry about keeping his party behind him.
As of this month, nearly two-thirds of Americans disapprove of the president's handling of immigration. It's the only issue on which most Republicans oppose their president.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: A majority of Democrats and Republicans oppose work permits for illegal immigrants, do not want to make it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens and disapprove of President Bush's handling of the issue. Bipartisanship at last -- Wolf.
SCHNEIDER: All right, Bill, thank you very much. Bill Schneider reporting.
And we've got live pictures. We'll continue to show you those live pictures coming in from the event. Protecting America's borders. That's what the president is going to be talking about, and we'll go there live once he does.
Some border state lawmakers are raising some red flags about the uniforms worn by border patrol agents because they're made in Mexico. It's not just embarrassing, GOP Congressman John Carter of Texas says, he's worried criminals or terrorists could easily get hold of the uniforms and use them to slip inside the United States. Customs officials say there's no evidence of any security breaches involving the uniforms. But a bill is being proposed to require the uniforms be made in the USA.
Now to Iraq and a brief but combative day in court today for Saddam Hussein. The ousted dictator lashed out about his treatment by U.S. guards and demanded the chief judge stand up to what he called American occupiers and invaders.
Saddam Hussein and his seven co-defendants watched a deposition videotape by a former Iraqi government official before he died, testifying about the round-up of Shiites after an attempt to assassinate Saddam Hussein. The Iraqi high tribunal adjourned several hours after it began because several defendants voiced complaints about their legal representation and death threats.
The former U.S. attorney General Ramsey Clark has joined Saddam Hussein's defense team. He raised questions today about inadequate security for defense lawyers and their families. We'll hear from Clark and have a live report from Baghdad on the Saddam Hussein trial coming up in our next hour.
President Bush is planning to give a big speech Wednesday about the U.S. mission in Iraq. Many people are wondering what, if anything, he'll say about when U.S. troops can start coming home.
Our White House correspondent Dana Bash is joining us now live from the White House with a little preview. You've been digging, Dana. What have you come up with?
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Well, first of all, this address on Wednesday to the Naval Academy is going to be the first in a series of speeches the White House says the president is going to give on Iraq, and really try to take back the offense instead of being on the defense when it comes to the political debate over the war.
Talked to a couple of senior officials here about the status of that speech. As you know -- you know how this works -- the drafts are still being written. And as one senior official said, it's only Monday and we're talking about a speech Wednesday.
However -- and the answer to the key question is whether or not -- of whether or not the president is going to be specific or explicit in saying when U.S. troops can begin to draw down from Iraq. At this point, we're being waived off that notion. But it seems as though he's going to try to signal implicitly he believes it can happen soon.
Because as you know, the president talks often about the fact that when the Iraqis stand up, U.S. troops can stand down. That's his mantra. And we're told that the focus of the president's speech will be about the Iraqi security forces. He will try to make the case that there has been more progress than the U.S., that Americans understand has been made in actually training Iraqi security forces so that they can actually do some of the job of securing their war-torn country without U.S. help.
But as you know, Wolf, there has been a lot of debate as to how much they can really stand on their own. And it's going to be interesting to see how the president parses that information on Wednesday.
BLITZER: What about the timing, the strategy behind the timing of the speech on Wednesday? What are you hearing, dana?
BASH: Well, the White House is trying to build these series of speeches around the December 15th elections. They are very much hoping that once Iraqis see a real stable government -- and that's what these elections, they hope, will bring -- that that could change the dynamic -- the political dynamic, but also, they hope, the security dynamic.
But in terms of the U.S. political debate, Wolf, as you know, the Congress is gone this week. And so the president really has the stage to himself and the White House wants to take advantage of that, especially this week.
BLITZER: Dana Bash at the White House, thank you very much.
Congressman Tim Murphy is due back here in Washington this hour after he and colleague Ike Skelton were slightly injured in Iraq over the weekend. The military vehicle they were in was hit by an oncoming tanker truck. The Pennsylvania and Missouri lawmakers were airlifted to a military hospital in Germany. A third congressman, Jim Marshal of Georgia, was not hurt. Murphy says he's in some pain and he's wearing a neck brace. He'll be live with us here in THE SITUATION ROOM tonight. That's coming up 7 p.m. Eastern.
Let's check in with Jack Cafferty, he's back from a few days off, as was I. Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I did. And you?
BLITZER: Very nice. Good to go, good to come home.
CAFFERTY: It's true. You know, we need more time for this program. THE SITUATION ROOM is not long enough. Come in here after a few days off, Ramsey Clark, former attorney general of the United States has joined Saddam Hussein's defense team. Did I hear you say that?
BLITZER: That is correct.
CAFFERTY: What is wrong with this moron? Why would he do that?
BLITZER: He feels strongly about helping these -- he also helped Slobodan Milosevic in the Hague.
CAFFERTY: Why doesn't he just go live in Baghdad? He'd be happier around a bunch of morons and dirt bags like Saddam Hussein. This mass murdering pig, and we've got an attorney general, a guy who used to be on a presidential cabinet in this country.
We need more time to discuss these things. And we've got the border patrol uniforms being made in Mexico. Who designs these programs?
BLITZER: You can't make this kind of stuff up.
CAFFERTY: No, I know you can't. And then we've got this thing. In an hour, we got the president, going to make this speech about illegal immigration. I love Schneider's line about, at last bipartisanship.
Everybody hates the way he's handling this issue. The president's going to talk about border security enforcement and a temporary worker program. The president's plan would allow illegal immigrants to get three-year work visas. They could stay here penalty-free, then they could get another three-year work visa, and then after six years, they'd have to go home and wait for a year. And then reapply, and then they could come back and start the whole cycle all over again. Some conservatives say that it rewards lawbreakers. Duh. The word is illegal. The president will try to have it both ways. He wants to please his conservative supporters who want tougher restrictions on these illegals, and he wants to please the business community because they like to hire these foreign workers, they don't have to pay them any benefits, they can pay them minimum wage or even below, and they say it helps the economy.
It sure as hell helps the corporate bottom line. So here's the question. Should illegal immigrants be able to work in this country for six years without penalty? E-mail us your thoughts, caffertyfile@CNN.com or the other address, which they scrolled by so fast I couldn't read it. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Our viewers know it by heart by now, Jack. Thanks very much. Good to have you back.
Coming up, a prominent Republican Congressman resigns after pleading guilty to taking big money bribes. We'll have a live report on his public confession. And how it may figure into the partisan feuding here in Washington.
Also ahead, if you skipped the post-Thanksgiving rush to the stores, online retailers are always open. We'll check in on the buying spree known as Cyber Monday.
And later, Senator Springsteen? A possibility or a joke? The boss is on our political radar. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A tearful admission and resignation today from a United States Congressman, Randy "Duke" Cunningham. He pleaded guilty to taking $2.4 million in bribes. And then the California Republican called it quits.
Our congressional correspondent Ed Henry is joining us now, he's got more on the story and the bigger picture, a scandal here in Washington.
Ed, what are you picking up?
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Congressman Cunningham had been considered a hero for his service as a Navy fighter pilot. He's shot down five migs in the Vietnam War. His story helped inspired the movie "Top Gun," but he's no longer flying high.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): Randy "Duke" Cunningham pled guilty to accepting bribes and evading taxes and then dramatically announced his resignation from Congress.
REP. RANDY DUKE CUNNINGHAM (R), CALIFORNIA: I know that I will forfeit my freedom, my reputation, my worldly possessions. Most importantly, the trust of my friends and family.
HENRY: Two years ago, the California Republican sold this house in San Diego for the inflated price of $1.6 million to Mitchell Wade, president of a small defense firm. Wade then sold the house for a loss of $700,000, as payback for the congressman backing his bid for millions in military contracts.
CAROL LAM, U.S. ATTORNEY: It's an egregious pattern of bribes that included a defense contractor paying hundreds of thousands dollars more for Mr. Cunningham's home than its true value warranted. Mr. Cunningham asking the defense contractor who purchased his home to then pay the capital gains tax on that home, which the contractor did.
HENRY: Federal prosecutors said the congressman also got a yacht, a Rolls Royce, jewelry and antique furniture. Cunningham used the proceeds from the first house to buy this sprawling $2.5 million mansion, a serious upgrade for a congressman making about $160,000 a year. He also arranged for a second contractor to give him half a million dollars to pay off the new home.
CUNNINGHAM: In my life, I have had great joy, and great sorrow. And now I know great shame. I learned in Vietnam that the true measure of a man is how he responds to adversity. I can't undo what I've done. But I can atone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (on camera): And Duke Cunningham will probably have to do that atonement behind bars. He's now facing up to 10 years in federal prison. Democrats like Nancy Pelosi already jumping on this, trying to tie this to the indictments of Scooter Libby, Tom DeLay and others, in saying there's a Republican culture of corruption in the Congress. Republicans insist this is an isolated case, but you can bet this is going to be an election issue overall next year.
BLITZER: Is this at all related to the scandals involving the Washington lobbyist Jack Abramoff?
HENRY: It's not directly tied, but Democrats are certainly going to try to make that connection, Wolf. Basically, as CNN has been reporting already, this investigation of a Republican lobbyist in recent months has been morphing into an investigation of members of Congress, their staff, and whether or not they accepted bribes from this lobbyist Jack Abramoff.
Democrats are going to try to make the case that there is a broad culture of corruption. Again, Republicans insisting no way, that's not the case. And they are also pointing out there are some Democrats, some high-profile Democrats who had close ties to Abramoff, as well. This story still unfolding, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, thanks very much, Ed Henry. Let me read to our viewers a statement that Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House of Representatives, has just put out. Among other things, she says, "this offense is just the latest example of the culture of corruption that pervades the Republican-controlled Congress, which ignores the needs of the American people to serve wealthy special interests and their cronies. The Republican Congress has the wrong priorities. It is time to restore a high ethical standard to the Congress." Nancy Pelosi issuing that statement, only moments ago.
Let's head down to the CNN Center in Atlanta to our Betty Nguyen for a closer look at some other stories making news. Hi, Betty.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Wolf. Repair crews try to get a handle on what caused a sizable chunk of marble to fall from the top of the Supreme Court building this morning.
One witness said there was a crack, then the marble tumbled to the steps below, breaking into pieces. About three dozen people were lined up to enter the building about 15 feet from where the marble fell. No one was hurt.
Take a look at this. Balls of fire and smoke shot into the air early this morning when a blast erupted at a power station on Columbus, Ohio's North Side. Six families were forced from homes and power was knocked out to tens of thousands of customers. Investigators blamed the explosion of two transformers on a pair of power lines making contact. Firefighters brought this spectacular fire under control within a couple of hours.
And more evidence that the so-called real estate bubble may be slowly deflating. The National Association of Realtors reports today that sales of existing homes slowed more than expected last month. Sales dropped to 7.09 million in October from 7.29 million.
Now, new home sales would be reported tomorrow. And economists predict they will fall, too.
There's also a mixed report today on retail sales for the weekend kicking off the holiday shopping season from Shopper Track, which monitors shopping at enclosed retail outlets only. Sales for Friday and Saturday stood at $13.4 billion.
That is half a percent dip from the same period last year, despite all the fights we saw on TV. But the national retail federation says overall combined shopping in stores and on the Internet rose 22 percent from a year ago. Wolf.
BLITZER: Betty, thanks very much. We'll check back with you soon. You've heard about Black Friday. What about Cyber Monday? Our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton, is joining us now. She has some details. Cyber Monday, what's that about?
ABBI TATTON; INTERNET REPORTER: This is the idea that after the Thanksgiving holiday, people head back to work to their high speed Internet connections and start shopping online from their cubicles. This according to a report from shop.org, an association of retailers online who found that last year, 77 percent of online retailers saw a spike the Monday after Thanksgiving in their online shopping.
You'll see from some of these online retailers there are specials offered today to try and lure in these online customers. Target.com has a perfect prices gift sale and also offers on shipping getting cheaper or free shipping finishing tonight.
Talking to some of these online retailers, you find out it's the season in general that they're focused on. Yes, today is a very big day. Overstock.com, who are also focusing on $1 shipping today to lure in customers, is saying they're expecting record sales. They also say it may not be the biggest day.
Last year, their biggest online shopping day was the last shipping day before Christmas. So more to come. Amazon.com, talking to them, their spokesman said that Thanksgiving day itself was a very big day. That was a day when stores were closed. So people were going online to buy gifts. Today, Cyber Monday, a big day for online shopping but in a big busy season in general.
BLITZER: Abbi, don't these people who go shopping during work hours know their employers might be snooping, might be watching them online when they're supposed to be working, not shopping.
TATTON: On the other side, Wolf, there's also the idea if they're shopping at home, their relatives might be looking over their shoulders and seeing what they're buying. It's a tossup which is the best way to do it, Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll check back with you. Thank you very much. Still ahead, new developments to report in the CIA leak investigation. What will new testimony mean for Karl Rove, the president's deputy White House chief of staff?
Plus, the Supreme Court gets ready to hear a major abortion case. Where do you stand on the controversial issue? We'll take a closer look at new poll numbers coming up right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There is new evidence today to suggest that presidential adviser Karl Rove still may be in the crosshairs of the CIA leak special counsel. Our national correspondent Bob Franken is covering this still unfolding investigation. What are you picking up, Bob?
BOB FRANKEN, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're going to introduce a name not as widely known in this. That is "Time" magazine reporter Vivica Novak, she will become the second reporter from "Time" magazine to, in effect, cooperate with the special prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald.
She is going to give a deposition, a sworn statement, not appearing before a grand jury, but a sworn statement to the special prosecutor about conversations she has had with Karl Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin.
Now, this is very, very interesting because Luskin talks to reporters all the time. He talks on the record to reporters all the time. We've reported him by name any number of times. What could be behind this is the investigation into whether Karl Rove should be indicted. That is still ongoing. A question could very easily be whether conversations that the special prosecutor understood had to do with Karl Rove were actually conversations that a reporter like Vivica Novak had had with Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin. This is the kind of thing that might have stopped the indictments from Rove as the special prosecutor said from proceeding because, there were some developments, some information that he got from Luskin that gave him quote, pause.
BLITZER: What's pretty surprising to me and I'm sure to you and a lot of fellow journalists is that the prosecutor wants to question Vivica Novak on a conversation she had a year after the name Valerie Plame Wilson was publicly disclosed, and a conversation she had not with an administration official with a White House official or someone else from the government, but with the lawyer representing someone, in this case, Karl Rove.
I don't know if I've ever heard of that kind of a situation developing. Have you?
FRANKEN: Which gives credence to that theory that there may be an effort by the special prosecutor to see if Rove, in fact, is legally exposed, or if it was just the lawyer having the kind of conversation that lawyers have with reporters all the time. And as I say, I'm not violating any confidences. We have reported repeatedly on on-the-record conversations that Bob Luskin has had with reporters.
BLITZER: We'll continue to watch the story. Bob Franken reporting for us. Abortion politics on our political radar as the U.S. Supreme Court prepares to hear its first major abortion case in some five years. Our new poll shows once again that Americans have a varied and nuanced take on abortion.
26 percent say it should be legal under all circumstances. 16 percent say under most circumstances. 39 percent say under few circumstances, 16 percent say abortion should not be legal under any circumstances. Here's a closer look at this.
Here's the question the high court will consider on Wednesday in a New Hampshire case. Should minors be required to get parental consent before getting an abortion? Sixty-nine percent of those surveyed say they favor parental notification requirements, even though almost as many, 61 percent, oppose a constitutional ban on abortion.
In New Jersey, the governor-elect Jon Corzine has set a timetable for naming his replacement in the United States Senate. A spokesman for the Democrat tells CNN an announcement is expected the week of December 4th after what he calls a dignified selection process.
One New Jersey Democrat tells us privately who's at the top of the wish list: none other than New Jersey native son Bruce Springsteen. That Democrat says nobody could speak better for the people of New Jersey than the boss. But alas, he already has a job. Unlikely he's going to be a United States senator, although stranger things have happened. And it's that time of the year, when Christmas is on everybody's radar, including officials here in Washington. The first lady, Laura Bush, today received the 18 1/2 foot Fraser fir that will adorn the blue room of the White House this season. The Capitol Christmas tree has arrived, as well. It's an 80-foot-tall Engleman spruce from New Mexico that will be a towering presence on the Capitol throughout the new year.
Up next, the war of words over the war in Iraq. Does President Bush need to speak out to Americans more often? We'll get expert opinion from James Carville and Rich Galen. They're coming up next, in today's "Strategy Session."
Plus, the battle over immigration heating up. Mr. Bush is in Arizona this hour. We'll have live coverage of his comments on immigration. That's all coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Today in our "Strategy Session," one leading senator suggests President Bush should deliver his own version of fireside chats on progress and setbacks in Iraq. Would the American public respond to that strategy?
Plus, there's more trouble for Republicans this afternoon. In a tearful statement, Republican Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham admitted to bribery and tax evasion charges and resigned from Congress. Joining us now to discuss that, our guests, Democratic strategist James Carville, Republican strategist Rich Galen.
The Randy "Duke" Cunningham, it comes on the heels of a lot of other Republicans facing legal problems. Tom DeLay indicted, Scooter Libby indicted, Frist under investigation in the Senate. What's going on?
RICH GALEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I don't know what's going on. I think it's one of the -- first of all, with respect to Mr. Cunningham, I mean, if the evidence -- he pleaded guilty, so he's a crook. I mean, he was a crook, is a crook, and should go to jail, the end.
But part of the other stuff is that I'm not sure that it's that much different than the normal course of ebb and flow of these things. But when you focus on it, it's like murders. If you start focusing on every murder locally here in Prince Georges County, it will be an explosion of news...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: And another Republican, David Safavian in the Bush administration indicted, and there's these congressmen with alleged ties to Jack Abramoff, now under a cloud. Is it the normal business as usual here in Washington or is something unusual going on?
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I agree with Rich. He's a major thief, $2.4 million. That's not just a crook; that's a major crook.
BLITZER: That's serious.
CARVILLE: He's a serious crook. But I do think it's out of the ordinary. And I think you have this huge investigation that's going on. You have Safavian that's been caught up in this. Now Scanlon has pleaded guilty. You have Bob Ney, who most people think is probably on the verge of getting into serious legal jeopardy, if he's not there already. You've got DeLay on a couple of things. You've got Frist and what keeps looking like if you want more...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: So what advice do you have for these guys? If you were giving them advice -- they're not going to ask you, James...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: They're not going to ask me, but I would get out in front of this. Man, I would put an ethics -- you know, I would take the ethics out of the House. I would have a strong ethics reform thing that says, "You know what? We've been in power for a long time. We might have lapsed a little bit and lost sight of what we're really about, but we're going to catch ourselves before the next election," because this thing could cascade out of control for them.
BLITZER: Is that good advice?
GALEN: I worked for Newt Gingrich when the Ethics Committee in the House seemed to be pretty aggressive, in terms of trying to ferret out what was right and what was wrong. In that case, they were wrong.
But I think it is time, on a broader scale, I think it is time for the Republican, who have now been in control for a decade, to, as James says, step back and say, "You know what? Let's get out of here for a couple of days. Let's don't invite the lobbyists. Let's don't invite anybody, a closed-door meeting, members only. Let's get ourselves straightened out, on the right track, and come back for the American people and say, 'OK, this is where we're going from this point forward.'" That's a good idea.
CARVILLE: And I think the Democrats need to be very, very aggressive in this. And I do think it's out of the ordinary, and I think it's more to come. I don't think it's going to stop.
BLITZER: Should Karl Rove be worried right now that Viveca Novak of "Time" magazine is being called to testify on a conversation she had a year after Valerie Plame's name was made public about a conversation she had with Bob Novak's lawyer -- with Karl Rove's lawyer?
GALEN: I have no idea whether he should be worried or not. But here's what I do think: I think Fitzgerald, or Fitzpatrick or whatever...
BLITZER: Patrick Fitzgerald. GALEN: ... is embarrassed, was embarrassed by Novak -- by Woodward, and now he's going to go back and uncover some more rocks. I think it's just hogwash.
CARVILLE: No, again, it's an investigation that's ongoing. I don't know what he has to be embarrassed by, because whoever told Woodward apparently told him earlier.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Again, he can't just go subpoena people without any reason. Whoever told Woodward apparently told Fitzgerald earlier that -- he never said anything about it.
All these people who say, "Well, he missed Woodward," what would they have Fitzgerald do, go subpoena every journalist around town and say, "Has anybody told you?" Well, he would be, you know, eviscerated for that.
But whether or not he is and what Rove's status is, I don't know. But I agree with Bob Franken. It's an interesting development; whether or not it's a significant development, we'll have to wait and see.
BLITZER: All right.
GALEN: On the day before -- let me just finish with this -- on the day before the indictments, everybody was -- the oxygen was scarce in Washington, everybody waiting for Karl Rove to be indicted, and he wasn't.
CARVILLE: Yet, which is an important word.
BLITZER: We'll see if he is or he isn't.
CARVILLE: We'll see. I don't know.
BLITZER: The president is getting advice from John Warner, the Republican chairman of the Armed Services Committee. Listen to what he said yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN WARNER (D), VIRGINIA: This president, President Bush, can do the same by telling the American people in greater detail what's going on, what's going right, what's not going right, what corrections are we going to have to take to achieve a steadfastness, particularly in the next six months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He's suggesting that he follow in the footsteps of FDR and have these fireside chats and be honest and open with the American public, give them the good, the bad and the ugly.
GALEN: Yes, well, I mean, FDR was not honest and open about World War II. He was very worried about the level of losses that we were suffering getting into the public discussion, which is why censorship was so strong.
But I do believe that we have missed, right from the beginning of this whole thing, is an opportunity for everyday Americans to become invested, not in the war, but in the effort. I mean, there is no 2005-2006 equivalent of a scrap iron drive.
When I was in Iraq, I once wrote a column about the fact that I couldn't get double-stuffed Oreos. I was sort of kidding about it. That got into the radio. We got so many double-stuffed Oreos, we had to make marines who came into to use their phones, they couldn't use their phones until they promised to take some with them. People were just so eager to have some connection with what's going on. And I think that would go a long way to help them.
BLITZER: You think it's good advice he's getting from John Warner?
CARVILLE: You know, I think the Republicans are frustrated because they're taking a heavy political toll. And I think Senator Warner has a lot of his colleagues on the Armed Forces committee that are frustrated, too.
And they want the president to do something differently. Obviously, they can't get him or he won't do anything differently strategically in Iraq. So they say, "Well, gee, if you just go out there and explain yourself more."
It would have probably been a good idea at the beginning of this to set up a way to keep people, as Rich says, connected to the war. But remember, you know, we were told to support the war effort, we should go to the shopping mall. And I think that's where he missed it at the beginning.
BLITZER: The White House is touting the president's big speech about to get under way out in Tucson, Arizona, on illegal immigration in the United States. Paul Weyrich, a conservative from the Free Congress Foundation, said this on November 14th: "On no issue have a Republican administration and a Republican House and Senate more blatantly or more cynically sold out the conservative movement and our country than on immigration."
He's got a problem with the base of the Republican Party, the conservatives, when it comes to illegal immigration into this country.
GALEN: Well, what the president is going to propose in not a very long period of time is a three-step process: one is increased border security; one is increased enforcement within the continental United States; and third, they don't call it a guest worker program, they're calling it a temporary worker program, where people can come to the United States, work, go back from whence they came, and go across the border with relative ease, as long as they're in the system and we can keep track of them.
I'm not sure if that's going to satisfy the people who think we should have no immigrants. But those people are on the fringe.
CARVILLE: It's one of the few areas I probably agree with Bush a little bit on. I think I -- why not call it a guest worker program? People want to come to the country, and work, and contribute. They should do that.
Who's not for increasing border security? I mean, anybody would be for that. And as long as they're going to accompany it with some employer sanctions, you know, it's probably something that you can look at or it's a start.
But I think (INAUDIBLE) is all washed up. Go look at Jerry Kilgore. He did real good by it.
People want to come into this country. There has to be a way to get them in. Hopefully, we can get legal people to come here and work. But this is a great country. I'm glad I live in a country that people want to come into, and I hope that we can accommodate some of the people that want to come here.
BLITZER: Now you understand why the conservatives are not happy with the president's stance on immigration, when James Carville is praising the president's stance on that, you understand why a lot of conservatives are saying...
GALEN: James is going to be the third term for Bush chairman. We're going to be very happy to have you...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Oh, Rich, he's a good conservative. But we basically agree on this issue.
BLITZER: They will argue that the president's been in office now for five years. And the border situation is out of control with all these illegal immigrants running across the border.
Let's listen in briefly to what the president is saying right now out in Arizona.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... those same missions every single day.
America has always been a compassionate nation that values the newcomer and takes great pride in our immigrant heritage. Yet, we're also a nation built on the rule of law. And those who entered the country illegally violate the law.
The American people should not have to choose between a welcoming society and a lawful society. We can have both at the same time. And to keep the promise of America, we will enforce the laws of our country.
(APPLAUSE)
As a former governor, I know that enforcing the law and the border is especially important to the communities along the border. Illegal immigration puts pressure on our schools and hospitals. I understand that.
I understand it strains the resources needed for law enforcement and emergency services. And the vicious human strugglers -- smugglers and gangs that bring illegal immigrants across the border also bring crime to our neighborhoods and danger to the highways.
Illegal immigration's a serious challenge. And our responsibility is clear: We are going to protect the border.
(APPLAUSE)
Since I've taken office, we've increased funding for border security by 60 percent. Our border agents have used that funding to apprehend and send home more than 4.5 million people coming into our country illegally, including more than 350,000 with criminal records.
Our customs and border protection agents can be proud of the work that you're doing. You're taking control of this border, and we have more work to do. And that's what I want to talk to you about today.
We're going to build on the progress we have made. We have a comprehensive strategy to reform our immigration system.
We're going to secure the border by catching those who enter illegally and hardening the border to prevent illegal crossings. We're going to strengthen enforcement of our immigration laws within our country. And together, with congress, we're going to create a temporary worker program that'll take pressure off the border, bring workers from out of the shadows, and reject amnesty.
(APPLAUSE)
Our strategy for comprehensive immigration reforms begins by securing the border. Let me talk to you about a three-part plan.
The first part of the plan is to promptly return every illegal entrant we catch at the border with no exceptions. More than 85 percent of the illegal immigrants we catch are from Mexico. And most of them are escorted back across the border within 24 hours.
To prevent them from trying to cross again, we've launched an interesting program, an innovative approach called interior repatriation. Under this program, many Mexicans caught at the border illegally are flown back to Mexico and then bused to their hometowns in the interior part of the country. By returning these illegal immigrants to their hometowns far from the border, we make it more difficult for them to attempt to cross again.
Interior repatriation is showing promise in breaking the cycle of illegal immigration. In the pilot program, focused on the West Arizona Desert, nearly 35,000 illegal immigrants were returned to Mexico through interior repatriation. Last year, only about 8 percent of them were caught trying to cross the border again, a much lower rate than we find among illegal immigrants who are escorted directly across the border.
We're going to expand interior repatriation. We want to make it clear that, when people violate immigration laws, they're going to be sent home. And they need to stay at home.
(APPLAUSE)
We face a different set of challenges with non-Mexicans that we catch crossing the border illegally. When non-Mexican illegal immigrants are apprehended, they are initially detained.
The problem is that our detention facilities don't have enough beds. And so about four of every five non-Mexican illegal immigrants we catch are released into society and asked to return for a court date. When the date arrives, about 75 percent of those released don't show up to the court.
As a result, last year, only 30,000 of the 160,000 non-Mexicans caught coming across our southwest border were sent home. This practice of catch and release has been the government's policy for decades. It is an unwise policy, and we're going to end it.
(APPLAUSE)
To help end catch and release, we need to increase the capacity in our detention facilities. Last month at the White House, I signed legislation supported by the members of the Arizona delegation that will increase the number of beds in our detention facilities.
We're also working to process illegal immigrants through the system more quickly so we can return them home faster and free up bed space for others. One of the most effective tools we have in this effort is a process called expedited removal.
Under expedited removal, non-Mexicans are detained and placed into streamlined proceedings. That allows us to deport them at an average of 32 days, almost three times faster than usual. In other words, we're cutting through the bureaucracy.
Last year, we used expedited removal to deport more than 20,000 non-Mexicans caught entering this country illegally between Tucson and Laredo. This program is so successful that the secretary has expanded it all up and down the border.
This is a straightforward idea. It says: When an illegal immigrant knows they'll be caught and sent home, they're less likely to come to the country. That's the message we're trying to send with expedited removal.
We're also pursuing other common-sense steps to accelerate the deportation process. We're pressing foreign governments to take their citizens back promptly. We're streamlining the paperwork, and we're increasing the number of flights carrying illegal immigrants home.
We recently tested the effectiveness of these steps with Brazilian illegal immigrants caught along the Rio Grande Valley of the Texas border. The effort was called Operation Texas Hold 'Em.
(LAUGHTER)
It delivered impressive results. Thanks to our actions, Brazilian illegal immigration dropped by 90 percent in the Rio Grande Valley and by 50 percent across the border as a whole.
With all of these steps, we're delivering justice more effectively and we're changing the policy from catch and release to the policy of catch and return.
The second part of our plan is to strengthen border enforcement -- to strengthen border enforcement is to correct weak and unnecessary provisions in our immigration laws.
Under current law, the federal government is required to release people caught crossing our border illegally if their home countries do not take them back in a set period of time. That law doesn't work, if it comes -- when it comes time to enforcing the border, and it needs to be changed.
Those we are forced to release have included murderers, rapists, child molesters, and other violent criminals. This undermines our border security. It undermines the work these good folks are doing, and the United States Congress needs to pass legislation to end these senseless rules.
(APPLAUSE)
We need to address the cycle of endless litigation that clogs our immigration courts and delays justice for immigrants. Some federal courts are now burdened with more than six times as many immigration appeals as they had just a few years ago.
A panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco declared that illegal immigrants have a right to re-litigate before an immigration court as many times as they want. This decision, obviously, would encourage illegal immigrants who have been deported to sneak back into the country to reargue their case.
Congress needs to put an end to this cycle of needless litigation and deliberate reforms necessary to help us secure this border.
(APPLAUSE)
The third part of our plan to strengthen border enforcement is to stop people from crossing the border illegally in the first place. And we're increasing manpower. We're increasing technology and infrastructure across this border.
We're integrating these resources in ways we have never done before. Since 2001, we've hired 1,900 new border patrol agents. I just signed a bill last month that will enable us to add another 1,000 border patrol agents.
When we complete these hires, we will have enlarged the border patrol by about 3,000 agents, from 9,500 the year I took office to 12,500 next year. This is an increase of more than 30 percent, and most of the new agents will be assigned right here in the state of Arizona.
(APPLAUSE)
And to help the agents, we're deploying technologies. Listen, technology can help an individual agent have broader reach and more effectiveness.
When agents can take advantage of cutting-edge equipment, like overhead surveillance drones and infrared cameras, they can do a better job for all of us.
In Tucson, agents on the ground are directing unmanned aerial technology in the sky. And they're acting rapidly on illegal immigration or illegal activities they may see from the -- from the drones.
In the months since these unmanned flights began, agents have intercepted a lot of drugs on the border that otherwise -- and people -- that otherwise might have made it through.
The legislation I signed last month provides $139 million to further upgrade the technology and bring a more unified systematic approach to border enforcement. Again, I want to thank the members of the Congress.
(APPLAUSE)
In some places, the most effective way to secure the border is to construct physical barriers to entry. Legislation I signed last month includes $70 million to install, and improve protecting the infrastructure across this border.
In rural areas, we're funding the construction of new patrol roads to give our agents better access to the border and new vehicle barriers to keep illegal immigrants from driving across the border.
In urban areas, we're expanding fencing to shut down access to human smuggling corridors. Secretary Chertoff recently used authority granted by the Congress to order the completion of a 14-mile barrier near San Diego that had been held up because of lawsuits.
BLITZER: All right. We're going to break away from what the president is saying. We'll continue to monitor his speech out in Tucson, Arizona. But let's bring back Rich Galen and James Carville.
The temporary worker program, Rich -- and you specifically have heard they're not going to call it guest worker program -- temporary worker program, which will allow these right now illegal workers to spend up to six years in the United States, but they will not receive amnesty. This is at the heart of what the president is proposing today.
GALEN: It is. It is two three-year kind of temporary worker permits. How they're going to do this is up in the air. Senator Cornyn and Senator Kyl have a plan that you have to go home, apply for it, and then you can come back and get your three years and three years.
But the idea is to try to get our arms around all these people who are here and then start, in essence...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: These are millions and millions of people, potentially.
CARVILLE: That's just never going to happen. OK, somebody's going to be here for six years. They're working for a company. They have kids in school. Then you're going to go and say, "You know what? Go back to Guatemala. Wait a year, and then come back with your children."
I mean, this is all some kind of a big con that they're working here. It's just completely impractical of what they're talking about doing. I think that they ought to have a guest worker program. They're going to have it for six years. You know exactly what's going to happen is, is the lobbying is going to be so intensive to keep these people here, because they're going to be employed, employees are going to have them...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: If they have children while they're living here in the United States, they'll be American citizens if they're born in the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: And then somebody's...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... mother's sick and she's in hospital...
GALEN: There's nothing to say that you can't apply for citizenship within the next six year period, and then you can stay here.
CARVILLE: That's amnesty.
BLITZER: We're going to continue this discussion, continue to monitor what the president is saying. James Carville, Rich Galen, thanks very much.
What will it take to secure U.S. borders? Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner has some details on exactly what the president has in store.
What are you picking up, Jacki?
JACKI SCHECHNER, INTERNET REPORTER: Well, Wolf, this isn't new technology; it's technology we already have, and we're just going to make greater use of.
It's called the Predator B. And you can see pictures of it online. We also got some video today from the Customs and Border Patrol. Let me move over here and start this video, so you can take a look at what this looks like. See if it will play for me there.
But basically, essentially, what it's doing -- I can't -- there it goes. See if it will start moving for you. You can take a look as it patrols the border.
And essentially what this does, it's an unmanned vehicle. It's really good getting into remote areas, areas that other aircraft can't get into it. It can stay up in the air for 30 hours at a time, has a maximum speed of 253 miles per hour. Really an incredible machine.
You can read all about the plant and all of this information, available online through CBP.gov, again, under the umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security -- Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Jacki, thanks very much.
Let's go back up to New York. Jack Cafferty has been reading your e-mail on this very subject -- Jack?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf.
Part of the president's plan would allow illegal immigrants to get three-year work visas. They could be extended for another three years, and then they would have to go home for a year, and then they could apply to come back and start it all over again.
The question is: Should illegal immigrants be able to work in this country for six years without any penalty?
Cee writes from Lawrence, Kansas: "What's wrong with this picture? Business interests and household employers pay minimum wage with no benefits, often under the table, to the illegals. We taxpayers cover health care and education costs for illegals and their families. So, after six years, we should reward these lawbreakers? No. I'll continue to support legal immigration and just say no to those who cheat."
Wayne in Frasier, Michigan: "Why not? We honest people are chumps. I'm going to become a farming corporation, hire illegals for almost nothing, get some big agricultural subsidies to pay me for not growing anything. I can hide any profits, convince the government that I'm poor, and then collect food stamps. What a cool game. Isn't America great?"
D. in Fresno writes: "I live in an agricultural area of the U.S. There was a labor shortage. Farmers unable to get crops in. Let's face it. Americans won't do the hard work these people are willing to do. We need some sort of plan to get workers and protect our borders. The president's plan is the closest I've seen. Let's see what the critics can come up with." Bradley in Pittsburg writes: "Sure, they'd be able to work here, unless you, Jack, want to bus tables after you finish THE SITUATION ROOM every night."
And Dave writes from Japan: "I don't know, Jack. Does it matter if people break the law? That's essentially what you're asking. If the answer is no, then I'm going to head over to FoxNews with a ball bat. Any idea what time Bill O'Reilly gets off work?"
Wolf?
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jack.
CAFFERTY: You're welcome.
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