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Differing Opinions On Iraq; Assumptions In Bush's Speech On Iraq War; Prospects For Schwarzenegger Reelection Raising Questions; Sources Of Payment For Presidential Trips
Aired December 01, 2005 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Ali. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
Happening now, it's midnight in Baghdad where U.S. troops are stepping up the hunt for insurgents. The troop death toll steps up, as well.
Back home, the war of words continuing. The administration urging Americans to stay the course, critics saying the president ignores realities on the ground.
In California, it's 1:00 p.m. Why did the governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, decide that a Democrat could help him with his political problems? He faces a more pressing decision though right now, life or death for a killer turned anti-gang crusader.
And it's 3:00 p.m. in McLellan County, Texas, where President Bush gets called to hometown jury duty in just a few days from now. Should he clear his schedule?
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
A day after the president asked Americans to show patience and resolve about Iraq, the U.S. military announces the deaths of four more American troops. Two Marines were killed by small arms fire during combat operations in Fallujah. Another died in an accident, while a soldier died from a gunshot wound north of Baghdad. Since the start of the war, 2,113 U.S. troops have died in Iraq.
U.S. forces are conducting several anti-insurgent sweeps ahead of the December 15 elections. Operation Tigers focuses in on Ramadi. A U.S. military spokesman says insurgents escaping other towns along the Euphrates corridor have been gravitating toward Ramadi. The military confirms one clash there today.
Here at home, the debate over the war is heating up. Our congressional correspondent, Ed Henry, is standing by on the debate that's happening inside the Democratic Party. Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, will tell us what the latest poll numbers are showing.
But let's begin with our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux. She's got the latest from there -- Suzanne. SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was very interesting here at the White House earlier today. It was all smiles with the president and his former presidential opponent, Senator John Kerry, both of them patting each other on the back, smiling, shaking hands, all of this at an event to honor the civil rights icon, the late Rosa Parks.
But then it was just moments afterwards -- when they were separated here, that is when Kerry went before the cameras outside of the West Wing, took off the gloves, and decided to hit the president when it comes to Iraq policy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Eighty percent of the Iraqi people have said they want the United States to leave. Forty-five percent of the Iraqi people say it's all right to kill Americans. The Iraqi leadership, Shia, Sunni and Kurd, in Cairo just a few days ago, said they think we ought to be setting a more concrete timetable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: But Kerry also, who voted for the Iraq war resolution, also acknowledged the split within the Democratic Party that he did not support Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi or veteran John Murtha's plan to go ahead and immediately pull out U.S. troops, but he kind of glossed over that difference, that split.
Instead, Wolf, he decided to focus on the president's speech, this strategy to pump up explaining the Iraq policy, saying that look, this is two-and-a-half years later, after the fact, after this war went down, that the president now is beginning to lay out specifics.
Wolf.
BLITZER: How is the White House, Suzanne, responding to this latest barrage of criticism?
MALVEAUX: Well, the White House essentially dismissed Kerry's comments here. And we heard from White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan who interestingly enough, hearkened back to the days that Kerry was portrayed as kind of a flip-flopper, saying that, in his words, it's very hard to reconcile Kerry's views on Iraq. He then took on the larger, broader issue here, of course, those Democrats who have been calling for the president to be much more specific about an exit strategy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Those Democratic congressional leaders who try to suggest that we don't have a plan are deeply irresponsible. They have been briefed by our commanders about their plan for succeeding in Iraq. And so I think that's just deeply irresponsible, first of all.
And second of all, when it comes to talking to our troops, the president was talking to the midshipmen at the Naval Academy yesterday. The president talks about the war on terrorism in many different formats. But he is the commander in chief. We are a nation at war, and no one has more invested in this war than our men and women in uniform.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And, Wolf, that second response here, that part that McClellan was referring to is essentially Kerry's accusation that the president was using the military, those midshipmen, as props essentially to promote his own Iraq policies, his own point of view.
Expect that we're going to hear a lot more from the president on all of this, the economic, the political ramifications of all of that. That happening next week as well as Cheney getting involved. Three major speeches next week, leading up to the Iraq elections.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Suzanne. Thanks very much. Suzanne Malveaux over at the White House.
How soon should American troops start pulling out of Iraq? That question is now dividing top Democrats.
Let's go to our congressional correspondent, Ed Henry. He's got more on that. Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Democrat John Murtha said today most U.S. troops will have to exit Iraq by the end of next year because in his words, the Army is broken and worn out. But Democrats still remain sharply divided over whether his call for a quick pullout is really a good idea.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Good afternoon.
HENRY (voice-over): House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi is now backing John Murtha's push for a quick pullout of U.S. troops and claims a majority of House Democrats agree.
PELOSI: The president is digging a hole in Iraq. It's time for him to stop.
HENRY: But even Pelosi's second in command, Steny Hoyer of Maryland, is expressing sharp disagreement, saying - quote -- "I believe that a precipitous withdrawal of American forces in Iraq could lead to disaster, spawning a civil war, fostering a haven for terrorists and damaging our nation's security and credibility."
Moderate Democrats are privately grumbling Pelosi's position may also pull the party to the left and make it harder to capitalize on President Bush's woes. Party strategists acknowledge deep division over how to get out of Iraq, just like the party divide over whether to get into the war, but say they're unified on a key point. PELOSI: That all Democrats agree that the course of action that the president is following is not the best one, and that we have to have another plan.
HENRY: Pelosi is also taking heat for telling colleagues just two weeks ago she would immediately endorse Murtha's plan but then didn't. Speaker Dennis Hastert accused Pelosi of having it both ways, declaring, "this war and the safety of the American people is simply too important for flip-flopping or indecision."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Pelosi aides say she only hesitated to let Murtha be the focus two weeks ago and she decided to jump on board yesterday after she saw the president's speech and stick with what she believes to be the status quo in that speech. They say regardless of any division in the party, the bottom line is that John Murtha's call for this immediate withdrawal, regardless of whether it ever happens, has completely reshaped the debate.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Ed. Thanks very much. Ed Henry, here in Washington.
Even as the White House launches a new push to regain public confidence over the Iraq war, our latest poll numbers are finding some increasing skepticism.
Let's bring in our senior political analyst Bill Schneider. Bill, what are those numbers showing?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, yesterday President Bush was a man with a plan. Are Americans buying the plan?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To achieve victory over such enemies, we are pursuing a comprehensive strategy in Iraq.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): It certainly looks comprehensive.
DAVID LETTERMAN, THE LATE SHOW: The White House has now released a 35-page plan entitled our "National Strategy for Victory in Iraq." Thirty-five pages. It's called our "National Plan for Victory in Iraq." Now, President Bush refuses to set a timetable for reading it.
SCHNEIDER: That's true for most people. As of Wednesday night, two-thirds of the public had not heard anything about the president's speech but their inclination is to be dubious. Most Americans don't think the president has a plan that will achieve victory in Iraq.
BUSH: Most Americans want two things in Iraq. They want to see our troops win, and they want to see our troops come home as soon as possible.
SCHNEIDER: In the president's view, U.S. forces can't withdraw until they've won.
BUSH: Pulling our troops out before they've achieved their purpose is not a plan for victory.
SCHNEIDER: His critics argue the U.S. can't win until U.S. troops withdraw because they're a target for the insurgents.
PELOSI: Even the generals have said, U.S. forces in large numbers in Iraq fuel the insurgents.
SCHNEIDER: Here's how the president defines victory in Iraq.
BUSH: They mean we will not permit al Qaeda to turn Iraq into what Afghanistan was under the Taliban, a safe haven for terrorism, and a launching pad for attacks on America.
SCHNEIDER: Does the public think we can do that? No. By nearly two to one, Americans think it is unlikely that in the next few years Iraq will be able to prevent terrorists from using that country as a base of operations for planning attacks against the United States.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: That is an astonishing level of pessimism. Americans simply do not believe that, in the end, the Iraqi intervention will turn out to be a success.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider with the latest numbers for us. Bill, thank you very much.
The other day, a former director of the National Security Agency said the U.S. is causing a civil war in Iraq by backing Shiites whom he said may turn the country into an Iran-style Islamic republic.
Earlier today, I put that prediction to U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad, the U.S. point man in Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZALMAY KHALILZAD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: There are people here who would like to see Iraq turn into an Islamic republic. But that is not the dominant tendency among Iraqis. There are Iraqis who have a moderate, liberal political tendency, and there are people in between.
So there is a struggle going on for the future of Iraq. That struggle really is for the future of the Middle East. And part of that struggle is what will happen to Iraq and whether it will become an Islamic republic or whether it will become a pluralist, democratic order. Our efforts are aimed at helping Iraq become a representative, and over time, a democratic political order. And that's what we're trying to do here. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll have much more of my interview with Ambassador Khalilzad in the next hour here in THE SITUATION ROOM. He offers some rather candid, blunt assessments. Some of his comments seem to be different than what the president suggested yesterday.
But stay with us here in THE SITUATION ROOM in the next hour for more from Ambassador Khalilzad.
In the meantime, let's go up to New York and Jack Cafferty. He's standing by with the "Cafferty File." Hi, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How you doing, Wolf? I was watching Bill Schneider's report on the poll, the latest poll. They left out one question in that poll, which is whether or not Americans are sick and tired of seeing Nancy Pelosi on their TV every time they turn the thing on.
I mean, is she tedious enough, do you think? I mean, is there anything that she won't run in front of a camera to respond to? I'm tired of looking at her.
President Bush has been summoned for jury duty. He's among 600 potential jurors called to serve near his Crawford, Texas, ranch. Imagine him on Tom DeLay's jury, for example. The White House press secretary says they learned about the summons from the media. Mr. Bush is supposed to show up in court this coming Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We have since called the court to inform them that the president has other commitments on Monday, and that he would like to reschedule his jury duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: Scott's doing a little standup there. The state district judge says he expects a response, but he does not expect the president to actually show up for jury duty. Bush's former rival, John Kerry, served on a Massachusetts jury last month. And he was actually elected foreman, which -- that was one election he could win.
So here's the question. Should the president have to serve on jury duty? Your thoughts at CaffertyFile@CNN.com or you can go to CNN.com/cafferty. Maybe he can get Nancy Pelosi to fill in for him. They'd probably take her picture down there at the courthouse.
BLITZER: And then she could presumably make a statement to her fellow jurors.
CAFFERTY: Oh man, she just wears me out.
BLITZER: She speaks very highly of you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: I doubt that seriously.
BLITZER: We'll find out. Jack, thanks very much.
Coming up, Joe Lieberman's a Democrat, so why is a top liberal group now putting the senator in its sights? We'll get the "Situation Online" when we return.
And why is Arnold Schwarzenegger crossing party lines? Is the California governor running scared, or just becoming more bipartisan? We'll find out.
And later, a CNN exclusive -- President Bush's predecessor speaking out on the war in Iraq and much more.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Part of President Bush's outline for victory in Iraq includes a series of what ifs and what abouts. As in, what if more Iraqi troops can be trained quickly? And what about the outcome of the December elections?
Here to talk about that and more, our senior analyst Jeff Greenfield. Jeff, talk a little bit about the assumptions you picked up behind the president's Iraq strategy, as laid out yesterday, and how much of an agreement there is behind those assumptions.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: I think the one assumption that most people agree on is that an immediate withdrawal of American forces is just not credible. I mean, you may have some on the left of the Democratic Party. But by and large, the idea of leaving Iraq a failed state, is just -- most people agree that's not going to happen, at least most political forces.
But look at the assumption that you can take the warring factions in Iraq, the Sunnis, the Shiites, the Kurds and have them work together. These are murderously different factions, in many cases. The differences go back centuries.
So you think, OK, well Sunnis did participate in a recent election and maybe that's encouraging. But what about the notion that the majority of Shiites now in many areas have prisons where they are not only imprisoning, but abusing Sunnis? And if you turn areas over to Iraqi forces, which faction of Iraqis will that be? There's one assumption there that's really very dicey, in terms of how that will play out, Wolf.
BLITZER: What about the assumption that most American troops, about 160,000 right now, will be out of Iraq within a year or two?
GREENFIELD: It seems to me that that one also, you know, requires an awful lot of almost a faith-based assumption.
For instance, look at the notion that what we're going to do now is clear and hold areas. Well one of the things we saw in Vietnam, when there was a similar strategy tried, is if you clear and hold some areas, then does that leave the other guys free to roam and to recruit and to do bad things in the other areas? And if American troops are stretched to the breaking point now, and they're confined to that area, who is it going to be out there who's going to try to pacify or stabilize the entire country? That's one example.
The other one is this, and there's a real, it seems to me, paradox here. If you want the Iraqis to be strong enough and equipped enough to govern their own country, and to maintain stability, that seems to require, by every estimation I've read, a fairly large number of Americans to remain in Iraq to train the Iraqis, to train the trainers, not in the next year or two, but for years and years to come.
So in that funny way, if you want the Iraqis to control the country so that Americans can leave, Americans are going to have to stay there for quite awhile. And that's where those assumptions run into some very, very difficult facts on the ground issues.
Wolf.
BLITZER: And briefly, what about the track record of assumptions that were made before the war?
GREENFIELD: Well, let's just take a couple. Former Deputy Defense Secretary Wolfowitz said in 2003 that by now, Iraqi oil revenues would total somewhere between $50 and $100 billion. That is tens of billions of dollars off. And I don't think even think we have to get into the assumptions about weapons of mass destruction, whether we'd be greeted as liberators, or the idea that the other countries of the Middle East would see this as something helping democracy.
There's a new public opinion poll out that says 58 percent of the people in those six countries think that democracy is less possible because of our intervention. A lot of these assumptions are really tricky.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Some of them could even be wishful thinking. We'll soon find out. Jeff, thanks very much. Jeff Greenfield, our senior analyst.
Democratic Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut has aroused the ire of some liberal groups because of his support for the war in Iraq. But liberals have also been frustrated by Lieberman in the past, from his willingness to work with President Bush on Social Security, to that presidential smooch at this year's State of the Union address. Now one online group has had enough.
Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner is joining us now with more on that. Jacki?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Well, Wolf, essentially MoveOn.org is saying that if its constituents in Connecticut want to back somebody other than Lieberman, they'll back that person. Why should he care? Why should anyone care? Well, frankly, netroots activism is taking charge. Take for example Daily Kos. They're saying they'll back MoveOn and whoever they back. Why should they pay attention? Well, you can ask Ben Chandler. He won his seat in February '04 in the Sixth Congressional District of Kentucky thanks in large part to blog support and online fundraising.
You can also ask Paul Hackett who narrowly lost a seat in Ohio's Second Congressional District to Jean Schmidt, but raised a tremendous amount of money through netroots activism online -- for example, $500,000 through ActBlue, an online clearinghouse in just two weeks.
It was blogs like Atrios' blog, Eschaton, that actually posted stuff like stop giving. They raised $40,000 in just one day this past summer. It was a huge blog swarm. So, essentially the lesson that we're learning is that if blogs want to back you, you'd better pay attention.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Sort of like net activism, Jacki, it's just like grassroots activism.
SCHECHNER: That's where the name comes from. It's Internet activism, Internet, grassroots, netroots.
BLITZER: All right, Jacki. Thanks very much for that.
Still ahead, Arnold Schwarzenegger facing a life and death decision. His dilemma and the political implications when we return.
Plus, our question this hour. Should President Bush have to serve jury duty? You can ask -- answer us and send your email to Jack Cafferty. He'll share some of your email later this hour.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is being criticized by some conservatives over his appointment of an openly gay Democrat as his chief of staff. That move comes in the middle of a rough patch that's raising questions about his prospects for reelection next year.
Our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley is here with more on this story. Candy?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, first of all, when you talk to conservatives out in California, you don't hear so much about the openly gay part of the resume. This is a former Gray Davis staffer who was instrumental, as one conservative put it, in all of the policies that the recall, which installed Arnold Schwarzenegger in office, were designed to upset. So he has brought in someone whose policies he's been trying to reverse. Having said that, think not so much about conservatives at this point because Arnold Schwarzenegger himself says that he really hasn't heard all that much from them.
BLITZER: Hovering over all of this in the immediate days ahead, the governor has to make a major decision on life and death, a prisoner about to be executed, scheduled in mid-December to be executed, and a lot of controversy out in California, and indeed around the country.
CROWLEY: Stanley "Tookie" Williams -- there was a movie done by him starring Jamie Foxx done about his life story called "Redemption." This is a man who was found guilty of murdering four people in California. He set up the Crips. He is a co-founder of the Crips, a notorious gang. Went to prison over a period of time and he's been in there nearly a quarter of a century.
He has become a man who writes children's books, very anti- violence, writes books aimed at keeping at risk children off the streets, out of trouble. He has gotten a lot of Hollywood support. The normal anti-death penalty crowd also behind him.
The governor has to decide whether to grant him clemency. There will be a meeting on the 8th with Williams' lawyer, with the attorney general, and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Republicans that we talked to say they would be very surprised if he granted clemency, that Schwarzenegger certainly on this particular issue and California, in fact, on this issue, has been pretty conservative, that he is a pretty tough law and order guy. They would be surprised if he granted clemency. But as Schwarzenegger said in his news conference the other day, that he does surprising things. So I wouldn't rule anything out.
BLITZER: All right. We'll see what he does. Thanks very much, Candy. And a note to viewers. Please stay with us during our 7:00 p.m. edition of THE SITUATION ROOM. Candy will be joining us once again for more on Arnold Schwarzenegger's life and death decision. That's coming up 7:00 p.m. Eastern here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Zain Vergee is off today. Carol Lin is filling in. She's joining us from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories making news. Hi, Carol.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there Wolf. Good to be in THE SITUATION ROOM.
A lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army Reserve is in custody on charges including conspiracy to commit bribery, money laundering and wire fraud. Authorities say Michael Wheeler was responsible for developing reconstruction contracts in Al Hillah, Iraq. They say he and several co-conspirators tried to rig bids on various contracts in return for money and gifts. Wheeler allegedly stole $100,000.
CNN Homeland Security correspondent Jeanne Meserve will have full reports straight ahead in THE SITUATION ROOM. In the meantime, three sailors are injured after a shooting at a military reserve base in Texas. It happened earlier today at the Naval Air Station Ft. Worth Joint Reserve Base. An Air Force spokeswoman says the suspected gunman is in custody. It is not clear though if the suspect was injured. But officials think one of the sailors may have shot two others before shooting himself.
Well, the FBI wants help in catching a gang of jewelry thieves. Authorities say the so-called gate cutters jewelry crew has robbed 55 jewelry stores in the Northeastern U.S. since 2003. They've made off with more than $5 million in gems. The FBI is releasing photos and surveillance video of the suspected robbers to help you get involved in finding them.
Now, 50 years ago today, Rosa Parks showed what a difference one person can make. She refused to give up her seat to a white man on a Montgomery, Alabama bus and got arrested for that. Well, President Bush today signed a bill authorizing a statue of Parks in the U.S. Capitol's Statuary Hall. The president said that by refusing to give in, Rosa Parks called America back to its founding promise of equality and justice for everyone. Wolf, Rosa Parks died at the age of 92 died last month.
BLITZER: All right, Carol. A wonderful woman she was. Thanks very much, Carol, for that.
This month, "TIME" magazine will be announcing its person of the year. The magazine's editors give the title to the person who for better or worse they believe had the greatest impact on the year's events.
CNN's Anderson Cooper has a look at one potential candidate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): With a watchful eye over what pop culture craves, Steve Jobs' innovations are transforming the way we react with our mobile entertainment. He's a visionary who's now a candidate for "TIME" magazine's person of the year.
ADI IGNATIUS, EXEC. EDITOR, "TIME": Well, Jobs is very, very, very involved in everything that happens at Apple. He is on top of that company and he is on top of his design teams. He's demanding results and creativity. And he's found a way to get it from his teams.
Now Steve Jobs and Apple continue to come up with innovations that just change the way we live, change the way we play. The Nano, the iPod video, these are innovations that are fascinating technologically and also gorgeous in terms of design.
JAN SIMPSON, ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR, "TIME": Video iPod is going to change the way we watch television. We now will get things when we want it, where we want it. This year, he's been really right on the sweet spot of technological change.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: And up next, can the president convince the public to stay the course in Iraq? Are Democrats in disarray over the war? We'll find out in our "Strategy Session".
Also, members of every administration make speeches, dozens and dozens of speeches. Sometimes they travel all over the world to give them. But who's picking up the tab? You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In today's strategy session, the president lays out a strategy for success in Iraq and opens a new front in the war of words. Will Democrats follow Nancy Pelosi's lead and endorse a plan for withdrawal? Did the president's speech do anything to restore the trust of the American public?
Joining us now, our guests, former Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe, Terry Jeffrey, the editor of the conservative weekly "Human Events." Guys, thanks very much for joining us. Listen briefly -- I know Jack Cafferty doesn't like her very much -- to Nancy Pelosi, speaking this morning on CNN's "American Morning."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: If we want to be safe, if we want to build our military and make it stronger, and we want to bring stability now to the region, Mr. Murtha has offered the proposal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: She has now come out and endorsed John Murtha, the Democrat from Pennsylvania who says withdraw over the next six months. But there aren't a whole lot of other Democrats who have done so.
TERRY MCAULIFFE, FORMER DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Well, I think Nancy Pelosi came out today, she listened to the president's speech yesterday, and saw that the president said nothing new, same old failed strategy. Didn't give any new timetables, any new tactics, keeps saying things are going great.
And she came out, supported John Murtha, who, as you know, 37 years decorated military veteran. John Murtha, I don't think you can find an individual who loves our men and women in the armed forces more than John Murtha. And Nancy came out and supported him, and I applaud her for that.
BLITZER: And at same time, the minority whip, the number two Democrat, Steny Hoyer, says this: "I believe that a precipitous withdrawal of American forces in Iraq could lead to a disaster, spawning a civil war, fostering a haven for terrorists, and damaging our nation's security and credibility." Sounding very much like the president.
MCAULIFFE: The Democrats, we have differences in tactics and timetable. But I can tell you this, Wolf. We're all agreed. We're all agreed that we need to hand this government over to the Iraqis in 2006. They need to take charge. We all agree that things are not going well on the ground in Iraq today and we've got to make some changes.
BLITZER: We're finding splits among Republicans, as well, Terry. Good conservatives are throwing their hands up and saying, "Well, maybe the president is not on the right track. Maybe the U.S. doesn't have it right in Iraq spending, what, $6 billion a month trying to restore some sort of stability there."
TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, "HUMAN EVENTS": Well, I think the president did an excellent job yesterday, asking the question that Nancy Pelosi can't answer. What are going to be the consequences in Iraq, the consequences for our national security if we precipitously leave?
I think he also did a very good job of explaining the political movement that's taken place in Iraq and the political progress that needs to take place, especially an accommodation between the Sunnis and the Shiites, who clearly are going to be the dominant power there after these elections December 15.
So we can get to the point where we can leave, and when we leave, there's a stable situation politically and it's not going to be a threat to us down the road.
BLITZER: Well, here's a question. I read Joe Lieberman's article in the "Wall Street Journal" this week. I'm sure you read it as well, making a strong case based on his return, coming back a few days ago from Iraq. He basically made the point that there are 27 million good Iraqis who want this to work who are with the United States. There are 10,000 insurgents, militias who are trying to stop it. Well, if there's 27 million good people, 10,000 militias, insurgents, terrorists, why can't the 27 million Iraqis get the job done by themselves?
JEFFREY: Well, I think the wildcard in there is that we need to get the majority of Sunni Arabs, who are in fact the minority in Iraq, to decide they want to make peace with the Shiites and they want, in fact, to enter the political process. And I think that's an important thing the president explained in his speech yesterday.
He said there's three enemies. There's Zarqawi al Qaeda terrorists, can't deal with them. Got to kill them or capture them. There are Saddamists, they're a small group, maybe some of them can be brought in, most of them will be margin naturalized.
The key force we have to bring into this process are Sunni Arabs who haven't yet decided if they want to become part of the political process. If we get them on board, and I think the administration has a strategy for doing it, then you have a union of the three forces in Iraq against the terrorists and against the people who are killing.
BLITZER: If that happens, the election's coming up December 15. And there's still a possibility that the president will turn out to be proven right, that if this election goes smoothly, if the Iraqi Sunnis join the Shiites and the Kurds and form a new government over the next four years and begin to take charge of their military, of their country, maybe the U.S. will be allowed to withdraw gradually over a period of time. That's a rosy scenario, albeit one that they say is very possible.
MCAULIFFE: We're all for it. I think everybody would to see that happen. I think we want to see our troops come home as soon as possible. But the problem is, we've listened to George Bush year in, year out continually tell us things are getting better.
We have more insurgents, 5,000 more than we had a year ago. We've lost 200 troops in the last three months. Percentage-wise, that's up. Our U.S. troops are being hit 100 times a day now, which is up. Don't keep telling us things are going great.
George Bush has to face reality. He's like an ostrich with his head in the sand. He doesn't know what's going on out there. And that's why the Democrats, and I will tell you, a bipartisan vote, 79- 19 in the Senate last week that said with an amendment, we need a timetable, we need benchmarks for success. And that's what Bush hasn't given us. It's all talk, it's all rhetoric, it's all slogans.
BLITZER: Terry?
JEFFREY: If we pull out of Iraq before we get a political accommodation between the Sunnis and the Shiites, we're going to have chaos, we're going to have a power vacuum, we're going to have people come to power who get there by murder.
And those people are going to threaten us, they're going to threaten their own neighbors, they're going to threaten the stability of the Middle East. They're going to haunt us. They're going to be a security nightmare for decades to come.
And I think responsible Democrats like Steny Hoyer and Joe Lieberman realize that, and they're going to work with the president in a patriotic way to get us to the place we need to be.
BLITZER: Speaking of Joe Lieberman, is it smart for some of these liberal groups now to start targeting Joe Lieberman, he's up for reelection next year, because of his support for the war?
MCAULIFFE: Listen, Joe Lieberman, long time United States senator, our vice presidential nominee in 2000, he has every right to say what he wants to do. He has laid his position out. I don't think things are getting better. I know a majority of Americans don't think are getting better.
But, you know, Terry just went through the nightmare summary of what could happen over in Iraq. Let me tell you this, Wolf. The reason we're there today is because George Bush and his administration misled us, politicized and embellished the intelligence data.
This mess that he talks about is because of George Bush. He created the mess, he has made -- the Middle East today is in absolute chaos because of George Bush. He's made us less safe, not more safe.
JEFFREY: I suggest Terry McAuliffe go back to the Congressional Record and give the speech that his friend Hillary Clinton gave on the floor of the Senate when she voted to authorize war. She used intelligence that came from DCI George Tenet, who was appointed by your President Bill Clinton. She said there is no doubt about it, and she backed that war based on what she got from a CIA run by a Democratic appointed DCI. For Democrats to say that the president lied to get us into war is irresponsible, flatly wrong, provably false.
MCAULIFFE: George Bush lied us into war, I'll say it again, and anyone who thinks that a member of Congress has the same intelligence data as the president of the United States is wrong. He gets his presidential daily brief every single day. They misled us, they embellished. Everything they told us was wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
JEFFREY: ... more alarmist and actually magnified the mistakes.
MCAULIFFE: Where are the weapons of mass destruction?
JEFFREY: They're not there. The CIA got it wrong.
MCAULIFFE: Where is Osama bin Laden today? Where is Osama bin Laden? Dead or alive, George Bush said. We still don't have him, and we're less safe today.
BLITZER: We're leaving it there because we're out of time. Shake hands as you always do, and we'll have you both back.
Coming up, a CNN exclusive, the president's predecessor on the war in Iraq. We'll tell you what the former president of the United States, Bill Clinton, had to say about how things are going there. He spoke with our Anderson Cooper.
And President Bush honors civil rights icon Rosa Parks. Fifty years ago today, Parks got arrested for refusing to give up her seat on a bus to a white man. President Bush says that should earn her a first of its kind place on Capitol Hill.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. How quickly should U.S. troops leave Iraq? We've heard plenty of reaction to President Bush's speech. But what does his predecessor have to say? Our Anderson Cooper sat down today with former President Bill Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The question is, what's now best for the American people, for the war on terror, and for the people of Iraq and the stability of the Middle East?
We don't want to set a fixed timetable if that led to chaos, the establishment of permanent terrorist operations in the Sunni section of Iraq, and long-term greater instability in the Middle East. So whether you were for it or against it, it seems to me you should all be praying that it succeeds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll hear much more from the former president when he joins Anderson Cooper later tonight. Please tune in, 10:00 p.m. Eastern, ANDERSON COOPER 360 for the entire conversation. The president speaks about Iraq, tsunami aid, the battle against AIDS. Bill Clinton and Anderson Cooper, 10:00 p.m. Eastern tonight.
President Bush today honored the late civil rights icon Rosa Parks. He signed into law a measure calling for a statue of her to be erected in the U.S. Capitol building. The directive came on the 50th anniversary of Parks' refusal to give up her seat to a white man on a Birmingham, Alabama, bus. The president said Parks helped -- quote -- "set in motion a national movement for equality and freedom." Parks died in October at the age of 92.
Zain Verjee is off. Carol Lin is filling in. She's joining us once again from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at other stories making news. Carol?
LIN: That's right. Wolf, today is World AIDS Day. Ceremonies were held around the globe to mark the somber event. Activists and AIDS patients and political leaders urged people worldwide to join forces against the deadly disease. It is now estimated that had more than 40 million people have AIDS. President Bush says AIDS remains a global health crisis, but he says it will be overcome by compassion, honesty, and decisive action.
South Africa's highest court today ruled in favor of gay marriage. That could clear the way for South Africa to legalize same sex unions. But the court gave parliament a year to make the necessary changes in the law. South Africa recognized the rights of homosexuals in its post-apartheid constitution. It's the first constitution in the world to prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. But married couples still have many rights still denied to gay couples.
All right, the soda industry is raising its glass. The American Beverage Association, a trade group, says sales of soft drinks sold in schools are down. So why would soda makers hail fewer sales of their drinks? Well, because the trade group is fighting the threat of a lawsuit against soft drink companies. Now, recently, critics say soda contributes to childhood obesity.
Well, a wayward cat is going home back in style. Emily disappeared two months ago from her Wisconsin home. But she turned up in a cargo container France. Workers used Emily's tags to contact her vet, and then the vet called Emily's owners. Continental Airlines is flying Emily back home from Paris, and she's making the trip in business class.
That's all the news we have for right now, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Carol, thanks very much. Good story. Let's go over to the White House -- near the White House, actually, the Ellipse. They're getting ready for the annual lighting of the Christmas tree, the Christmas Pageant of Peace. It's now called the Pageant of Peace, it takes place every year exactly at this time just south of the White House on the Ellipse.
They're tuning up the music, getting ready for the crowd. The president and the first lady will be there to light the Christmas tree. We will have live coverage here on CNN.
Up next, President Bush summoned to jury duty back home in Texas beginning just a few days from now. Should he answer the call? We'll hear what you think.
And is the U.S. in too deep to pull out of Iraq anytime soon? I'll speak with a reporter who's been behind the lines with the insurgents. What he has to say may shock you. That's coming up later tonight in our 7:00 p.m. hour of THE SITUATION ROOM. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go back to New York and Jack Cafferty with the "Cafferty File". Jack?
CAFFERTY: Was that the Rockefeller Center tree? Which tree was that?
BLITZER: That was at the White House. It looked like the West Wing of the White House.
CAFFERTY: Very pretty. President Bush, Wolf, has been summoned for jury duty. Mr. Bush among 600 potential jurors who got the call down near his Crawford, Texas, ranch. The White House says the summons is for this coming Monday. Even though the president can't serve then, the White House says he would like to reschedule. The question is, should the president have to serve on jury duty?
Doug in San Diego writes: "Foreman Bush, how do you fine the defendant, guilty or not guilty? 'We didn't find any evidence, your honor, but we decided the defendant requires incarceration as we believe he's maybe going to do something bad some day. We call it preemptive justice.' Jack, you frighten me with these questions."
Glee in Appleton, Wisconsin -- what kind of a name is Glee: "If President Bush believes strongly in the process of democracy and insists the whole world needs to have it, he should be willing to report for jury duty. It's a privilege under our democratic system."
Nonnie in Sunrise, Florida: "W on a jury? Is the jury room big enough to hold Cheney and Rove, Rumsfeld, Condi, Hughes, and the rest of the gang? If not, how could anyone possibly expect Dubya to come to a verdict? Face it. The only decision he made all by himself since he's been in office was his nomination of Harriet Miers. And we all know how that turned out."
Libby in Burnsville, Minnesota: "Absolutely not. There is no need to execute someone for running a stop sign."
Graham in Vancouver, British Columbia: "Sure, as long as it's not my trial."
And Rex in Toronto: "The president? Yes. This president? No way. No offense, but the man almost died eating a pretzel, for god's sake. We've got to have some standards."
BLITZER: Jack, you're asking a guy named Wolf what kind of name Glee is.
CAFFERTY: I didn't think of that. I'm sorry, Glee.
BLITZER: That's better. We apologize to Glee. Jack, thanks very much.
Still to come, some call it an outrage, lobbyists picking up the travel tabs for top White House officials. Which White House aides got free trips to places like Paris.
And the White House all spruced up. Very soon, the first family will flip the switch on the national Christmas tree. We'll bring it to you live as it happens. They're getting ready.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: They're getting ready for the event near the White House on the ellipse, the lighting of the Christmas tree. We're going to go there in the coming hour live once the president and the first lady do that.
There's a lot of travel by members of every presidential administration. No surprise there. But you might be surprised by who's paying for a lot of the trips.
Our national correspondent Bruce Morton is joining us now live with more. Bruce?
BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the Center for Public Integrity, a private, non-profit group says companies, industry organizations, and others paid $2.3 million over six years for White House officials to come and talk to them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MORTON: The study covered the last two years of the Clinton administration and the first four of George W. Bush's. Big stars had trips paid for -- Sandy Berger, Clinton's national security advisor, Bush guru Karl Rove, 620 White House aides in all. Trips to exotic places like Paris, less exotic ones like Detroit.
Government regulations say federal officials shouldn't accept such travel if it would - quote -- "cause a reasonable person to question the integrity of agency programs" -- end quote. But groups that lobby include the White House among their targets. The AFL-CIO has spent 26 million on lobbying in those six years, the study says, 218,000 on White House travel. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, 205 million lobbying, 16,000 on White House travel. Harvard University, 3.5 million on lobbying, 85,000 on White House travel, mostly because it invited Al Gore to speak when he was vice president and had to pay for staffers he brought along with him. Is there a risk?
BOB WILLIAMS, CENTER FOR PUBLIC INTEGRITY: They're going to possibly be beholden to folks who they're paying for their travel.
MORTON: Vice President Cheney reported no such travel. All his staffers' trips were apparently paid for by the taxpayer.
WILLIAMS: Basically what you have with Mr. Cheney's office is, there's no disclosure, there's no way of really knowing where they went.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MORTON: Better the company pays than the taxpayer? What do you think? Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Bruce, I don't know. But it's an interesting story. Thanks very much, Bruce Morton.
It's a juicy online report. Internet reporter Jacki Schechner has the goods on who else made the list. Jacki?
SCHECHNER: Well, you can find out who went where and how much it costs online at the Center for Public Integrity. This, like Bruce mentioned, is the group that takes a look at the money behind the politics.
Just for comparison, I arbitrarily picked Karl Rove to show you what Tom Ridge. He took five trips compared to Rove's eight. His total was a little over $1,000 more than what was spent on Rove. Another comparison, Alberto Gonzales, the current attorney general, 14 trips to Rove's eight. His total is $9,000.
Now, if you take a look at the top spenders, they may not be names that you recognize. For example, Vanessa Flint had $64,000 spent on her travel. She was with the office of Tipper Gore under the Clinton administration.
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