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Insurgents Waging Propaganda War in Iraq; Four Christian Activists Being Held Hostage in Iraq; Fraud Scheme; Schwarzenegger Mulls Clemency For Williams; Australian To Be Hanged In Singapore; The U.S. Is Attempting To Free Western Hostages In Iraq; Scaffolding Slams Into Building
Aired December 01, 2005 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: R. Glenn Hubbard is with the Economic Office in the Bush administration.
Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you very much, Jacki, for that.
It's 5:00 p.m. here in Washington. And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where news and information around the world arrive in one place at the same time.
Happening now, it's 1:00 a.m. Friday in Iraq, where the battle is intensifying on another front, the propaganda war. We'll show you what the insurgents are doing and how U.S. forces are responding.
It's 5:00 p.m. in McLean, Virginia, where friends of a peace worker held hostage in Iraq say he wants his captors understood, not vilified. The story behind his unusual request.
And it's 3:00 p.m. in Denver, where two window washers survived this heart-stopping ordeal. We'll talk to one firefighter who rescued them.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
As U.S. forces struggle to quell the insurgency in Iraq, they're having to fight on two fronts, the physical war and the propaganda war, where the insurgents sometimes have the upper hand.
Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, is joining us live from Baghdad with more. Nic?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, there are operations under way in the west that U.S. commanders say they have seen a reduction in the number of car bombings and suicide bombings as a result of those attacks, but new video has emerged from the town of Ramadi today, and it's proving very controversial.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON (voice over): This is video that has the U.S. military fighting mad. It supposedly shows insurgents roaming freely on Thursday in the city of Ramadi, western Iraq. Cameramen filmed the event and sent different videotapes to two TV news agencies. It could be propaganda. And that's what angers coalition commanders. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, they say, is an expert propagandist.
MAJ. GEN. RICK LYNCH, COALITION SPOKESMAN: Conducting these kidnappings, these beheadings, these explosions so that he gets international coverage to look like he has more capability than he truly has. He is lying to the Iraqi people.
ROBERTSON: And that's the point of the videotape from Ramadi. Is it real or staged? It's certainly designed to show that the insurgents can move about at will in the town. But the coalition says that's not the reality.
LYNCH: Over the course of the day we've had one attack. It was an RPG attack, and it was ineffective. That shows you disparity between the perception of security in Ramadi and what is happening on the ground.
ROBERTSON: On the streets of Ramadi, where CNN is not safely able to go alone, a man identified as an insurgent claims to control the streets and vows to crack down on U.S. troops. Leaflets distributed by the gunman claim Zarqawi, the head of al Qaeda in Iraq, is taking over Ramadi. That he may be close to the city is not disputed by U.S. officers, but they claim he's on the run.
LYNCH: No doubt that Zarqawi tried to gravitate him and his forces toward Ramadi. I know it to be true. Our operations are focused on taking him out in Ramadi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: Well, propaganda is becoming very important in this battle for both sides. General Lynch says U.S. commanders are in power to inform Iraqis. Unlike the insurgents, he says, they always tell the truth.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Nic Robertson in Baghdad for us. Nic, thank you very much.
And coming up shortly, we'll get a surprisingly frank assessment of the situation in Iraq from the top U.S. official on the ground in Baghdad, the United States ambassador, Zalmay Khalilzad.
Now to those four kidnapped Christian activists being held in Iraq.
CNN's Brian Todd has been following that story. He's joining us now on the phone from McLean, Virginia, just outside of Washington. Brian, what are you learning?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I've just spoken with Virginia Collin (ph). She is a member of what they call the Langley Hill Meeting Center here in McLean. That's an affiliation of the religious group the Quakers.
Both Collin and a member of the humanitarian group to which Fox belongs, the Christian Peacemakers Teams, has now confirmed to CNN that Fox sent a correspondence to colleagues of both these groups last year telling him that if he was taken hostage, they should not pay ransom for his return, they should reject the use of violence to win his freedom, and they should not vilify his captors, and instead try to understand the motives of their actions.
Now, I asked Virginia Collin, the member of the Quaker group here in McLean, why would he believe that, why would her group believe that if they are dealing with people who would kidnap him in the first place and potentially be very violent? Her reply was that is a core principle for most Quakers. "There's something of god in everyone."
Now, a member of the humanitarian Peacemakers Teams, the Christian Peacemakers Teams, tell us they are still trying to secure his release through peaceful and diplomatic means. They will not say if they're working with the U.S. government or not, but they are trying to win his release. And they want -- both they and the Quaker group here want to clarify -- and hopefully Mr. Fox's captors they say will hear this clarification -- that he did not go there to try to convert Muslims or anyone else to the Christianity or to the Quaker faith. They went there for humanitarian reasons, to promote dialogue, and to try to improve human conditions. But they want to clarify neither Mr. Fox nor any member of his group went there to convert anyone.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian. Thank you very much. Brian Todd with that story.
A U.S. Army Reserves officer is accused in taking part in a fraud scream involving reconstruction contracts in Iraq.
Our Homeland Security correspondent Jeanne Meserve, is joining us now live with details. Jeanne?
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this criminal complaint released unsealed just a short time ago. We've been taking a read.
Michael Brian Wheeler, a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army Reserves who worked with the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, is under arrest and charged with bribery, money laundering, theft, wire fraud, and possession of automatic weapons. The CPA, of course, the entity that was in charge of Iraqi reconstruction before the U.S. handed sovereignty back to Iraq.
Wheeler allegedly took money and gifts from contractors in return for making sure those contractors and their companies got lucrative government contracts to rebuild Iraq. In some cases, the work was never done.
An affidavit also alleges that Wheeler used his military position to help smuggle hundreds of thousands of dollars of money stolen from the Coalition Provisional Authority into the U.S. on military transports to avoid Customs inspections. Wheeler is alleged to have spent some of that money on military-grade weapons, including four grenade launchers, 20 fully automatic submachine-guns, and other firearms which Wheeler and his co-conspirators kept for their personal use. Another 58,000 was allegedly used to purchase high-end tools, the affidavit says.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jeanne. Thank you very much. But a quick question, though, before I let you go. Have there been any other arrests?
MESERVE: Well, this came -- this grew out of some other arrests that were announced the other week -- an investigation into American businessman Philip Bloom and CPA official Robert Stein. He was a former felon who had been hired to award CPA contracts.
Wheeler, by the way, 47, of Amherst Junction, Wisconsin, was taken into custody yesterday. There was a hearing today. He was released on unspecified conditions. If convicted, he's going to face 30 years in prison. We've made attempts to reach a family member or other representative. Thus far, we haven't been successful. Officials do say they expect more -- more charges in the various investigations into fraud in Iraq.
BLITZER: Thanks very much. Jeanne Meserve reporting for us.
Let's go back to New York and our Jack Cafferty. He's standing by with the "Cafferty File". Jack?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Guess what?
BLITZER: What?
CAFFERTY: I've got a note from Glee.
BLITZER: What did she say?
CAFFERTY: She said, "What's wrong with my name? I've had it for 71 years. It's my name. I like it just fine. And it's a hell of a lot more distinctive than Jack."
BLITZER: She's right.
CAFFERTY: She's right. Way to go, Glee.
Swearing is getting expensive for some high school students. Police at two Hartford, Connecticut, schools are fining students $103 for swearing.
This is a great idea.
They're targeting kids who swear at their teachers or administrators. So far, about two dozen of these little garbage mouths have been fined. And if the kid doesn't have the money to pay the bill, the fine then is passed along to his parents for them to pay.
One cop says the program's working. Of course the PC crowd whines that punishing kids doesn't teach them the right way to act.
One of the things you can do if you don't have the money for the fine is smack them in the mouth when they talk naughty.
The question is this. Is it appropriate to fine high school kids for swearing? Email us at CaffertyFile@CNN.com.
And we here in THE SITUATION ROOM love Glee.
BLITZER: We do. She's a wonderful woman.
Thanks very much, Jack.
CAFFERTY: All right.
BLITZER: Up ahead, pressure increasing on the California governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, to save a death row inmate. The battle over Crips cofounder "Tookie" Williams ahead in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Twelve stories above ground and no way to get down. Check this out, the efforts to save two stranded window washers as they dangle high above. We'll tell you what happened.
And it's an annual event. We'll take you to the lighting of the National Christmas Tree right here in Washington. These are live pictures. They're getting ready for the president and the first lady. We'll take you to the White House.
All that coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A North Carolina inmate is scheduled for execution less than nine hours from now. Kenneth Lee Boyd would become the 1,000th person executed in the United States since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976. Boyd was convicted of killing his wife and father- in-law in 1988. Visitors today included two sons who witnessed the murders.
The lawyers say the boys are still hoping for clemency from North Carolina's governor. But they accept that that probably will not happen.
On the other side of the country, thousands of people, including many celebrities, are also hoping for clemency for a California death row inmate scheduled to die in less than two weeks. Only the governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, can now spare the life of Stanley Tookie Williams.
CNN's Chris Lawrence is joining us now from Los Angeles with the latest. Chris? CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Tookie Williams only has 12 days to live, but his supporters are trying to convince the governor to grant him a last-minute reprieve.
You know, this is a man who's been in prison now for 25 years, and you still see his legacy, good and bad. Kids today, students are still reading his children's books, and the Crips street gang that he helped create has spread from here, at south-central L.A., all over the country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice over): When he meets with prosecutors and defense attorneys next Thursday, Governor Schwarzenegger will hear all about Tookie Williams, from his criminal career as gang banger and killer, to his new life as an author on death row.
It will be Schwarzenegger's decision whether to spare his life.
ALFRE WOODARD, ACTRESS: We just have to let him know that -- that he's got support if he does the right thing.
LAWRENCE: Actress Alfre Woodard told me she understands the political pressure on the governor to allow the execution. A clear majority of California voters favor the death penalty. And Schwarzenegger plans to run for re-election next year.
WOODARD: People want you to make a decision that's good for your political future. It's good to know that if you stand on the right side of things, you stand for justice, somebody else stands with you.
LAWRENCE: The decision that pleases some would alienate others, such as law enforcement.
WESLEY MCBRIDE, RETIRED GANG INVESTIGATOR: Lots of people have written books. Lots of people have done gang talks, you know, and they didn't kill people.
LAWRENCE: Retired gang investigator Wesley McBride points out that Williams killed a convenience store clerk during a robbery in 1979. And Williams was convicted of murdering a motel manager and the man's wife and daughter during another robbery.
MCBRIDE: I'm not sure he has redeemed himself enough. I mean -- and I don't know what that would be. But certainly writing a couple kids' books doesn't do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ask you please, Mr. Governor, grant him clemency and spare his life.
LAWRENCE: Next week, Williams' lawyers will play this videotape for Governor Schwarzenegger when he meets with them and prosecutors to hear both sides.
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: I want to make sure that I make the right decision, because I'm dealing here with a person's life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: Yes, I've got to tell you, no California governor has granted clemency to a death row inmate in nearly 40 years. And what complicates things in this case, Williams still says he's innocent. He's never admitted guilt, and therefore, never shown any remorse for the crimes.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Chris. Thanks very much. We'll be watching.
Meanwhile, an Australian man was scheduled to be executed in Singapore this hour in another case drawing international attention.
CNN's Carol Lin is joining us now from the CNN Center with more on this story. Carol?
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the case of Van Nguyen is getting a huge amount of attention in Australia. Australia abolished the death penalty and hasn't executed a prisoner since 1967. But compare that with Singapore, which has one of the highest per capita execution rates in the entire world, along with some of the harshest drug trafficking laws anywhere.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LIN (voice over): The seriousness of his crime is debatable, but there's no worse place Van Nguyen could have been busted than Singapore. The 25-year-old Australian citizen was caught with almost a pound of heroin at the Singapore airport. He says he was trying to pay off his twin brother's debts to a loan shark.
Singapore has zero tolerance trafficking laws. He was sentenced to hang.
As the execution neared, supporters and opponents of the death penalty held vigils. The Australian government pressured Singapore in vain to grant clemency. There was one concession. Singapore normally forbids condemned prisoners from having any physical contact with loved ones. But in his finals hours, Nguyen was allowed to hold his mother's and brother's hands.
TANYA PLIBERSEK, AUSTRALIAN MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: I suspect one of the reasons the Singapore government won't let her hug her son is, how could you ever let go if you're a mother? How could you ever let go after that last hug?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well, Van Nguyen was scheduled to die by hanging at the top of this hour. We are awaiting confirmation whether the execution was carried out.
Wolf. BLITZER: All right. What a story. Thanks very much, Carol, for that. Carol Lin reporting.
Coming up, my interview with the United States ambassador in Baghdad. With so much being said about the war here in the United States, I'll ask Ambassador Khalilzad how things are going on the ground in Iraq. And he has some surprisingly candid assessments.
And a freak accident in Denver. Check it out. It began with a scaffold being repeatedly slammed into the side of a building as two window washers held on for their lives. We'll tell you how this story ended.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The Skaggs Family entertaining now at the annual Pageant of Peace on the Ellipse near the White House. The president will be -- is there already, and the first lady. They'll be lighting the Christmas tree. We'll have live coverage.
Let's listen in for a second.
(MUSIC)
BLITZER: All right. And remember, we're waiting for the president to flip the switch to light the National Christmas Tree on the Ellipse near the White House right here in Washington. That's set to happen at the end of this hour. We'll bring it to you live.
In the meantime, we're going to bring you Ali Velshi live. He's standing by in New York with some small business news. What a transition. Ali?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, I like that. Only you could do that that way. But I'm going to play with it.
The issue here is getting gifts to the people that you need live for Christmas. Not live gifts, just gifts.
Now, if you're a small business, you're competing with online retailers who specialize in the idea that you can buy things until the last minute, literally, and ship them. So I wanted to find out what you do if you're a small business. I spoke to FedEx and UPS.
Let's start with FedEx. If you are shipping something by ground, and you want it guaranteed by December 24, Christmas Eve -- and we don't have to say holiday here, because we're talking about Christmas Eve delivery for Christmas Eve -- December 16 is the day you're looking for there. If you want to use the overnight express and you want it guaranteed for December 24 delivery, December 22 is your last day to do it.
Over to UPS. Now, they're not exactly the same the way these things work. UPS says that the ground service takes three to five days. So if you are using ground, December 16 gives you fully five days. And that means you'll get it there earlier. It could be that you could send something on the 17th and it will get there on time. But not for sure.
If you want to use the next day air service, it's the same as FedEx, December 22. But if you are really, really wanting to offer your clients something good, you can ship using the premium air service for guaranteed Christmas Eve delivery as late as December 23, if you meet three criteria, which, for purposes of this graphic we're going to call B7s.
I have no idea why there are B7s on that screen, but we'll call them B7s.
Your first B7 condition is that there's a Saturday premium, because Christmas Eve is a Saturday. Your second condition is that this only goes to select parts of the country. And your third one is you have to ask for a special routing label. But if you really are selling things until the last day, that's how you do it. And those are the rules to follow.
I have no idea what B7s are all about, but I think you probably got the point, right, Wolf?
BLITZER: I got no idea, but I know this is very good information for small businesses and for a lot of other people. Thanks very much, Ali, for that.
VELSHI: OK.
BLITZER: Coming up, we're waiting, once again, for the lighting the National Christmas Tree and the Ellipse behind the White House. President Bush will be flipping the switch shortly. We'll bring that to you live.
And he's the administration's point man on the ground in Baghdad. His frank comments about the situation there may surprise you. Coming up, I'll speak with the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. President Bush wants the American public to show determination and resolve as he pursues what the administration calls a strategy for victory in Iraq. But the top U.S. official on the ground in Iraq is offering a very blunt assessment that seems a little bit less rosy than the forecast coming from officials here in Washington.
Earlier, I spoke with the U.S. ambassador in Baghdad, Zalmay Khalilzad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Mr. Ambassador, thanks very much for joining us. There have been some disturbing comments in recent days by the former interim prime minister of Iraq, Ayad Allawi, a good friend to the United States. He's quoted in "The Observer" this past weekend in London as saying this: "People are doing the same as in Saddam's time and worse. It is an appropriate comparison."
"People are remembering the days of Saddam. These were the precise reasons that we fought Saddam. And now we are seeing the same things."
Is he right? Is he justified in being as concerned as he is?
ZALMAY KHALILZAD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: Well, I think there is reason to be concerned. We did find in the bunker of Ministry of Interior that over 170 prisoners were held and over 100 of them were abused. The investigation is going on.
So abuses have taken place. But the difference now, compared to Saddam's period, Wolf, is that it's being investigated. Not only the Iraqi government is doing the investigation, but the government has asked for our help. Both our military and embassy people are assisting with the investigation to determine the responsibility and to take appropriate actions.
In addition, we are also working with the government to investigate, look into all other facilities where prisoners are held. Abuses have taken place. There is cause for concern, but it's a different environment than the Saddam period, because there is this credible investigation, with our help, that's going on.
BLITZER: How worried, Mr. Ambassador, are you about these -- what some critics are calling these death squads, these Shiite militias that have apparently infiltrated the new Iraqi army and police forces, who are simply, according to reports, going out and snatching Sunnis and torturing them and killing them? How worried are you about these reports?
KHALILZAD: Oh, I am worried about these reports. Militias are a source of concern, a source of insecurity, a source of threat to the people of Iraq, in addition to the terrorists and the insurgents.
And part of what we are trying to do is to build national institutions, which -- the army and the police ministries that were destroyed in the aftermath of the liberation of Iraq. But part of the challenge is to demobilize the militias or integrate some of them into these new institutions. These processes of state-building and nation- building that we're involved in are difficult processes, especially in a multi-sectarian, multi-ethnic society, in which feelings of hostility, resentment, a sense of revenge is strong. And, therefore, it will take time. But we're making progress. But those are among the challenges that we face, Wolf.
BLITZER: In the south, the suggestion is that the new Iraqi military that's taking charge are really these Shiite militias who are loyal to Muqtada al-Sadr, this renegade Shiite cleric who, at one point, was an enemy of the United States. Is that a fair assessment, that the Iraqi military in the south are really these -- these al-Sadr, Muqtada al-Sadr militiamen?
KHALILZAD: I don't think that's true, Wolf, with regard to the military.
But I do have reports, Wolf, that, in some of the police units in the south -- and there are some Muqtada al-Sadr elements that have infiltrated or have become part of the police forces. And they have, at times, taken over some police stations. This was one of the problems that our British friends faced a few weeks ago in Basra. But, as I said again, militias such as the Sadr militia or the Badr group are part of the environment, part of the situation, in which we're trying to build state institutions.
I'm glad you're asking about these issues, because it's important for the American people to understand that, besides the insurgency and the -- the terrorist threat, we face the challenge of building national institutions and dealing with the militias that -- that are also present in the picture. And some of these militias are getting help from Iran. And -- and, so, it's a complicated situation, in the context of which we -- we are trying to do something very difficult, to build a representative, democratic, pluralistic political order, with security institutions under civilian control.
BLITZER: Retired U.S. Lieutenant General William Odom, who, at one point was director of the National Security Agency here in the United States, said this the other day on CNN.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: He said; "We're causing the civil war. We're slowly turning the country over to the Shiites, who will turn the country into an Islamic republic, very much as Iran."
That is a concern he expresses. Is that a fair concern?
KHALILZAD: It's a legitimate concern. There are people here who would like to see Iraq turn into an Islamic republic. But that is not the dominant tendency among Iraqis. And there are Iraqis who have a moderate, liberal political tendency. And -- and there are people in between.
So, there is a struggle going on for the future of Iraq. That struggle, really, is for the future of the Middle East. And part of that struggle is what will happen to Iraq and whether it will become an Islamic republic, or whether it will become a pluralist, democratic order. Our efforts are aimed at helping Iraq become a representative and, over time, a democratic political order. And -- and that's what we're trying to do here.
BLITZER: The Brookings Institution, a think tank here in Washington, Mr. Ambassador, does a -- a daily chart of insurgent attacks. And they have been going back to June of 2003, when there were eight a month, and then there were 10, 18. And it -- it goes up. In October -- in September of this year, it was up to 90, and then 100 in October. This chart shows a steady increase in the number of insurgent attacks against U.S., coalition forces and -- and Iraqi allies.
Is the insurgency getting worse?
KHALILZAD: No. Based on the briefings that I receive from our military -- and I had a briefing from General Casey this morning -- that, in fact, the numbers are declining, and there has been several weeks of decline in the number of attacks.
And, so, while it is true that our numbers also show there was a -- is a -- a significant number of attacks in October, prior to -- particularly to the referendum on the constitution, but, in recent weeks, our military's data indicates a -- a declining trend. I'm -- I'm not projecting that that trend will continue. That's our hope. That's -- but I do expect the possibility of increases in attacks as we get closer to the election.
BLITZER: Well, good luck to you. Good luck to everyone over there. You have a difficult assignment. We appreciate your spending a few moments with us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Thank you, Mr. Ambassador.
KHALILZAD: Well, thank you, Wolf. It's good to be with you.
BLITZER: On another matter, the ambassador says U.S. officials are looking at whatever measures they can take to try to help secure the freedom of Western hostages in Iraq, including an American seized last week.
Still to come, two window-washers trapped in a disabled rig whipped by fierce winds -- it's a ride neither will ever forget. We will talk to one of the rescuers.
Plus, is it appropriate to fine high school kids for swearing? Jack Cafferty is standing by with your email. He will show us what you're saying.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: It was very, very dangerous duty in Denver. Apparently, washing high-rise windows on a windy day should be avoided -- really.
Let's bring in CNN's Tom Foreman to explain. What a story.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is unbelievable. We have all seen this video now. We're going to start off here with, initially -- this would be kind of the view you would have had if you had been the one falling off this. It would have been kind of like this. You're coming in here, zooming into Denver, kind of like this.
This is downtown Denver. It's clustered right up against the hills here. I lived here for 10 years -- beautiful, wonderful place. But let's look at the building we're talking about. This is right downtown. And that's the building that we have been watching in this video for the past 24 hours or so.
These guys went through this amazing experience. Why was this such a big deal? Look at this. We pull out. You see, it's a busy downtown area, very vibrant, things going on, lots of tall buildings. But when I bring up the buildings, you will get a sense where they are.
This is the building in question, dangling off the side of this. When you live in Denver, one of the things you get used to is the wind howling down off the mountains every now and then. And, boy, when it turns on, it's like an instant hurricane.
And, in this case, it led to a very unusual case of smash-and- grab.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (voice-over): It ended with two window-washers thankful they're still alive. This is what the side of a building in Denver looks like now. Wednesday, two window-washers were on their scaffold when their platform's boom that anchored them to the building broke.
The men dangled for their lives, high in the sky, up to 40-mile- per hour winds relentlessly blowing their heavy platform to and fro.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was expecting to see two people die. And that was -- that was the -- probably the scariest part.
FOREMAN: As the scaffolding smashed into the building, the men were in danger, but so were people on the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We watched the glass fall down on to the cars and smash the tops of the cars and the windows of the cars. It was not a pretty sight to watch.
FOREMAN: These two women watched in horror.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The wires got tangled. And the guys were flying around, hitting the buildings. All the glass was flying. We are calling 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Finally, the firefighters were able to grab them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And -- and before that, for, like, about five, 10 minutes, they were just, like, holding on for their life. And, then, what I saw that they were going with their fingers, doing 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, at that time, I hurried up and got to my phone. And I called the police.
FOREMAN: Once the fire department came, crews waited for the platform to swing close to the building and used a hook to grab it. They saved both men. And they were not seriously hurt.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: And, as you might imagine, they're investigating this incident, trying to find out more about it.
(LAUGHTER)
FOREMAN: And it's not something to try at home.
BLITZER: What a -- what a story.
Hold on a second.
I want to bring in Carlos Garcia. He's joining us on the phone from Denver. He's one of the -- the rescuers involved in this operation. Carlos, what was it like?
CARLOS GARCIA, HELPED RESCUE DANGLING WINDOW-WASHERS: We were just, you know, trying to get ourselves in position, able to get the men off of the scaffolding. And it was going back and forth on the building. So, we were just lucky to get the right place at the right time.
BLITZER: How long were these guys dangling like -- in -- in this fierce wind?
GARCIA: We -- when we first got on scene, we looked up, and we saw that the platform was pretty much stable up against the building.
From the time it took us to get from the lobby to the 12th floor, it was probably about I would say two or three minutes of them just going back and forth in the wind.
BLITZER: And then what did you do?
GARCIA: The only thing we did is, we just ran across, tried to get ourselves in a position where we could get the guys off the -- off the scaffolding. And we had four companies up there.
Luckily, we just got in a place where it -- it smashed through the window, and we were able to secure the scaffolding for a few seconds while they got off.
BLITZER: Well, thank God it ended out OK.
Carlos Garcia, thanks very much for joining us.
And, Tom Foreman, what an amazing story that is. And...
FOREMAN: Lucky -- lucky guys...
BLITZER: Lucky guys, indeed.
FOREMAN: ... for the holiday season, huh?
BLITZER: Thank you very much.
Let's go up to New York. Lou Dobbs getting ready for his program, right at the top of the hour. Lou, what are you working on?
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you very much.
Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, a deadly day for our terror in Iraq. Another four Americans have been killed in combat. We will be live at the Pentagon with the very latest for you.
And, also tonight, how communist China's aggressive power play for world oil supplies could lead to military confrontation.
And, tonight, the rising momentum to reform teacher pay -- some say it will give our children a better education. Others say it's going in the entirely wrong direction.
And the controversy over pharmacists who refuse to fill birth control prescriptions on moral and religious grounds -- Governor Blagojevich is our guest. We will be talking about that, as well as the attorney representing those pharmacists -- all of that, and a great deal more, tonight at 6:00 Eastern.
Please join us. Now back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Before I let you go, Lou, I want to alert all of our viewers to a -- a great honor. We're very proud of what has happened. Lou Dobbs is receiving a lifetime achievement award from the National Television Academy.
Let me read from what the president said. And -- and here's some video from the -- at the NASDAQ, when you were receiving this Emmy.
"His reporting has been remarkable for many years, especially his contributions to our understanding of corporate outsourcing of jobs, the role of global trade, the importance of space exploration, and the place of the American union movement in a changing economy" -- an excellent, well-deserved tribute to our man.
Lou Dobbs, congratulations to you. Thanks very much for your excellent work on behalf of all of us at CNN.
Look at this picture we got, Lou, also, a lifetime achievement Emmy for business and financial reporting, CNN's Lou Dobbs at -- at the NASDAQ. That's pretty impressive.
DOBBS: Well, you're very gracious. You're very kind. And thank you for those wonderful words. And it's -- of course, it's my privilege to be working with you and all of the wonderful people here who make up CNN. It's a delight.
The only thing, Wolf, is, you haven't mentioned how surprised you are that a man as young as I am would be receiving a lifetime achievement Emmy.
BLITZER: Well, you're -- you have managed to squeeze a lot into those years.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: Lou one of the originals at CNN, going back to 1980, when Ted Turner found you.
Where did he find you, Lou?
DOBBS: Well, he -- he actually had a headhunter finding me. But he played a -- a great role in -- in bringing me. And I was lucky enough to be amongst the -- the early pioneers, as they say, chosen to help build the network. It's been a -- it's been, as they say in Texas, a hoot.
BLITZER: A hoot, indeed.
Lou Dobbs -- and he's -- his program comes up right at the top of the hour. Lou, once again, congratulations.
DOBBS: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: And up next here in THE SITUATION ROOM, a Connecticut school is cracking down on students who curse. It's making them pay for the bad words they say. So, what do you have to say? Jack Cafferty weighing in with your email here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
And one on one on with Bill Clinton. Our Anderson Cooper sits down with the former president of the United States. Hear what Mr. Clinton has to say about Iraq and the war on terror and much more. We will have a preview. That's coming up, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, in THE SITUATION ROOM. The full interview with the former president on ANDERSON COOPER 360, 10:00 p.m. Eastern tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go right back to New York. Jack Cafferty standing by with the "Cafferty File." Hi, Jack.
CAFFERTY: How you doing?
I was watching that footage of those guys swinging around on that window-washing contraption outside that building.
BLITZER: You know, that scared the...
CAFFERTY: Yes.
BLITZER: ... the whatever out of me.
CAFFERTY: They said, though, that the wind was blowing 40 miles an hour. Why would you go outside to wash windows on a high-rise in a 40-mile-an-hour wind? Wouldn't you wait, like, let the windows stay dirty for another day, and then do it when the wind died down? BLITZER: Yes, I guess. Maybe the winds just suddenly...
CAFFERTY: There it is.
BLITZER: Maybe they suddenly just appeared or something. I don't know.
CAFFERTY: Man, that's scary stuff.
BLITZER: But look at the damage to those windows, too.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
BLITZER: They're going to need...
CAFFERTY: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: ... a lot more than a cleaning now.
CAFFERTY: They're lucky that little thing didn't break when it slammed up against...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Oh, my God.
CAFFERTY: Anyway, cursing in school is what we're monkeying with this hour.
It's getting costly for some high school kids in Connecticut, where police are fining students at two schools $103 if they swear at teachers or school administrators. So far, about two dozen kids have had to pay the money, too.
Our question is, is it appropriate to fine high school kids for swearing?
Doug in Sierra Madre, California: "Yes, it is. In fact, when I was in high school in the '60s, you would be suspended from school for a week. And that said nothing of what my dad would have done to me."
Jeff in Palm Coast, Florida: "I don't think the students should be fined, because all around us, it is starting to become a standard for normal conversation. Eliminate the source of the bad-mouthing, movies, video games, music, et cetera, and it will slowly disappear."
Bob in Mount Grove, Missouri: "It would be nice if the worst thing high school kids did was swear. Leave them alone."
Salvatore in New York: "Fine them? At the very least. Suspension? That's not a bad idea either. Detention? Scrubbing the rest rooms? Now we are getting somewhere."
Jeff in Chesapeake, Virginia: "We can always tell our youth that they will never be president if they swear. Vice president, maybe, though. As a side note, please stop letting Zain Verjee off. She's the highlight of my evening."
And, finally, we got this one from Paul in Raleigh, North Carolina. It sort of speaks for itself: "That's bull***."
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: All right. He's going to be fined, Paul in Raleigh, North Carolina.
CAFFERTY: Cost you $103.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: That's right. All right, Jack, thanks very much.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: We will see you in an hour, when we come back in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Up next, though, an annual tradition here in Washington. We will go live to the lighting of the National Christmas Tree with President Bush. That's coming up next.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PETER NOSTRAND, PRESIDENT, CHRISTMAS PAGEANT OF PEACE: ... privilege to present to you the president of the United States.
BLITZER: And Peter Nostrand, the chairman of the National Christmas Pageant of Peace, has just introduced the president. He's about to light the Christmas tree.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you all very much. Welcome to the Christmas Pageant of Peace. Laura and I are so honored to join you all.
The lighting of the National Christmas Tree is one of the great traditions of our nation's capital. Each year, we gather here to separate the season of hope and joy and to remember the story of one humble life that lifted the sights of humanity.
Santa, thanks for coming.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: I'm glad you made it. I know you got a lot of commitments this time of year.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: But, by the way, we have a lot of chimneys in the White House...
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: ... if you're looking for something to do.
I appreciate all our entertainers. Thanks for being here. It's a fantastic evening.
I want to thank Peter Nostrand, who is the chairman of the Christmas Pageant of Peace, and John Betchkal, all the members of the board.
I appreciate Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton, other members of my Cabinet who are here. I appreciate the members of Congress who have come.
I particularly want to give a special thanks to the National Park Service, Director Fran Mainella and all the good folks who work for the National Park Service.
(APPLAUSE)
BUSH: Reverend Martin, thank you very much as well.
Christmas is a time to rejoice and to give thanks for the blessings of the season and for the blessings that surround us every day of the year.
We also remember that we have a responsibility to help those in need. America is a compassionate and generous land. And acts of kindness toward others fulfill the spirit of the season.
As we approach Christmas in this time of war, we pray for freedom and justice and peace on Earth.
In his Christmas Eve address to the nation in 1941, Franklin Roosevelt said that, "Against enemies who preach the principles of hate and practice them, we set our faith in human love and in God's care for us and all men everywhere."
We ask for God to watch over our men and women in uniform who are serving overseas. Their families miss them, hold a seat open for them, and pray for their safe return. America's military men and women stand for freedom, and they serve the cause of peace. Many of them are serving in distant lands tonight, but they are close to our hearts.
As an expression of our hope for peace and happiness in this Christmas season, we light the National Christmas Tree.
Jackie, Melissa and Jenna Kantor of Bethesda are with us here. They started Project Backpack, to give children displaced by Hurricane Katrina new backpacks filled with books and toys and school supplies.
These girls are an example of the compassion that is found in the hearts and souls of Americans everywhere. And they have shown how much good can be done when we reach out to help a neighbor in need. And, so, Laura and I now invite them to join us to turn on the lights.
And would you help turn on these lights as well, by counting down?
Five, four, three, two, one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, we ask that you please remain in your seats until the president and his party have left the Ellipse. And now we ask that you please join us in a holiday sing- along.
BLITZER: And so there it is, the lighting of the Christmas tree. It's a lovely annual event here in Washington on the Ellipse, just outside the White House -- the president, the first lady.
This national tree lighting ceremony began, by the way, in 1923, when President Calvin Coolidge pushed a button to turn on the lights of a Vermont balsam fir at the ceremony on the Ellipse. That was then hosted by Washington, D.C.'s public schools -- all of this a sign of the times, a sign of the seasons.
Remember, we are here in THE SITUATION ROOM every weekday afternoon from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern. We are back in THE SITUATION ROOM 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
Coming up later tonight, Nic Robertson will take a closer looked at the insurgency in Iraq. And we will also get an on-the-ground assessment of how well Iraqi forces are doing fighting the insurgents.
Until then, thanks very much for joining us.
Lou Dobbs standing by to pick up our coverage. He's in New York. Lou?
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