Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

House Votes to Extend Patriot Act until February; Pelosi Won't Agree to Spending Cuts Bill; New York City Transit Workers Reporting Back to Work; Accused Rapist on the Loose in Miami; President Bush Hopes to Improve Image with Minorities

Aired December 22, 2005 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Chris. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
Happening now, lawmakers could hit a land mine in their 11th hour mission to keep the Patriot Act alive. It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington. We're following the drama of a deal breaker in the making, potentially. What might this mean for President Bush already facing a host of headaches?

New York commuters ready to roll again. Transit workers now are ending their crippling strike and going back to the bargaining table. We're watching the early rush hour live this hour.

And Hurricane Katrina. Relive a survivor's stunning video captures the disaster and his desperation. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

This hour, political brinkmanship right here on Capitol Hill. A single House member is threatening to hold up an extension of the USA Patriot Act just hours after the Senate finally broke its stalemate over the anti-terror law. So once again, the national security measure President Bush says he needs may be in jeopardy. Let's go up to Capitol Hill. CNN's Andrea Koppel standing by with the very latest. Andrea?

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, House members were expecting to be heading out on their holiday vacations later today. At least those left in town. But CNN has now confirmed that the powerful chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, James Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin, is quote, "Threatening to block," that six-month extension that as you mentioned, was just agreed to in the Senate yesterday, the six-month extension to the U.S. Patriot Act.

Sensenbrenner is in negotiations right now, we're told. This is confirmed to us by the House Speaker's office, Dennis Hastert's office. The House is supposed to be going into session at 4:00. Everyone had expected, Wolf, that this would be a quick session, perhaps lasting no more than 30 minutes.

That the House would approve not just the Patriot Act, but also would approve the Defense Spending Act, something that $453 billion. But clearly right now, there is a big question mark hanging over the fate of the Patriot Act. It's our understanding that Sensenbrenner is now discussing the possibility of a three-month extension. But Wolf, this is clearly a moving target.

BLITZER: And so basically, as we see these live pictures from the floor of the House of Representatives, Andrea, they're just opening this new session with the prayer, with the opening prayer right now.

Sensenbrenner doesn't like the six-month compromise. He may want a three-month compromise. But if he does that, then the Senate has to come back, the House has to come back. This could really be a mess.

KOPPEL: Absolutely, Wolf. Well there was the possibility the Senate had left the door open when they adjourned late last night, that they would come back into session at 8:00 this evening.

If, they said there was the possibility that the House didn't approve a piece of legislation. No one was really expecting that to happen. And it's our understanding that yesterday, that the majority leader did -- Bill Frist did speak with the White House, talk with the White House about this six-month extension, got their green light. But it's unclear as to whether or not he spoke with Sensenbrenner, Wolf.

BLITZER: One other issue, the budget. There's still some wrangling involving that. Supposedly that was supposed to be over with. What's the latest on that front?

KOPPEL: The latest, Wolf, is that the Senate yesterday had agreed to this $40 billion in spending cuts. Now, today, the House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California sent a letter to the Speaker Dennis Hastert saying that she absolutely could not agree to this.

She said she opposed this, in her words, "immoral bill." The House had been looking to get some kind of unanimous consent to pass this through quickly. Today she says she wants to wait until the House and Senate are back in session next year -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Andrea Koppel covering Congress for us today. Thank you Andrea, very much, from the House of Representatives, which we will continue to watch.

Over to the White House, the president left for Camp David just a short while ago, thinking the USA Patriot Act extension was on a clear track toward final approval. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It appears to me that the Congress understands we've got to keep the Patriot Act in place, that we're still under threat. There's still an enemy that wants to harm us and they understand the Patriot Act is an important tool for -- for those of us here in the executive branch to use to protect our fellow citizens. And so the Senate extended the Patriot Act by six months.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: Let's go to the White House. Our correspondent Elaine Quijano is standing by. Six months in the Senate doesn't necessarily mean that six-month compromise is acceptable to James Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee. What's the thinking at the White House now, Elaine?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, watching to see what happens, of course, Wolf. You said yourself the president now off to spend the Christmas weekend at Camp David. You heard his remarks just a short time ago.

But before this latest development, the official position here at the White House was that they were pleased that it appeared the Patriot Act would be remaining in place. That despite the fact that of course, the White House had opposed any kind of temporary extension.

In fact, earlier today, the White House Press Secretary, Scott McClellan saying, quote, "We kept Senate Democrats from killing the Patriot Act." That of course, a no-so-veiled reference to Senator Harry Reid, the Democratic leader who said last week, "We killed the Patriot Act."

Now interestingly, no mention of the handful of Republicans who also joined with the Democrats in their concerns about civil liberties. It was just yesterday, of course, that President Bush unsuccessfully appealed to senators to fully reauthorize the Patriot Act. Of course, that did not happen.

So the White House today, Wolf, trying to claim victory on this issue. The Patriot Act, of course, the administration has said many times is a vital tool, they say, for law enforcement in fighting terrorism. Wolf?

BLITZER: If the six-month extension, the compromise holds, that's somewhat of an if still, probably, but if it still holds, what's the White House attitude? What are they going to try to do over the next six months?

QUIJANO: Well certainly this is coming down to the wire. And it could very well come down to the wire once again. In fact, one senior administration official predicting last night that perhaps because both sides were so deeply entrenched this time around, that six months from now, we could be right back where we are.

BLITZER: Elaine Quijano at the White House, our White House correspondent. Elaine, thank you very much. And James Sensenbrenner is expected to be speaking very, very shortly. The chairman of the Judiciary Committee, in fact, he's speaking right now on Capitol Hill. Let's listen in.

REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R-WIS.), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: 2167 and ask for its immediate consideration in the House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clerk will report the title. BLITZER: All right. We're told that Sensenbrenner will have a news conference in the next few moments, explain his stance on the six-month extension, this compromise worked out in the U.S. Senate last night, six month continuing all the provisions of the Patriot Act.

We'll see what Sensenbrenner says. We'll go to his news conference live coming up shortly up in the House of Representatives. We'll watch that story for you.

In the meantime, this hour in New York City, transit workers are reporting to their jobs. The executive board of the Transit Workers Union voted earlier to end their crippling strike, while contract talks continue. Subway trains, buses should be back on the streets by tomorrow morning. Let's head up to New York, CNN's Allan Chernoff joining us. I guess you're in Brooklyn, New York, where are you now? Manhattan or Brooklyn, Allan?

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf, we're in downtown Brooklyn. There are about nine different subway lines that converge here in downtown Brooklyn. And as we speak, you mentioned transit workers are heading back to their jobs, 4:00 is when one of the shifts typically begins for the transit workers.

So whichever they can, people are trying to get back to work. Of course, keep in mind, many of these transit workers take the subway or bus to their jobs. So it will take a little longer than usual for them to get to work.

The transit system says it will take about 10-to-18 hours to get the entire system back online. Think about the buses. Well, the buses not all that difficult. But the subway system, 660 miles of track. You've got signals. You've got lights on those tracks. They all have to be checked. Make sure everything is operational.

But hopefully everything will be ready for the rush hour in the morning. Also, there is a little bit of legal business to take care of. We're standing in front of the state Supreme Court here in Brooklyn. And Roger Toussaint, the head of the transit union, had been scheduled to appear this morning to face possible contempt of court charges.

The judge here said that Toussaint might actually be sent to jail for being in contempt of court. Keep in mind, this strike was illegal, a violation of New York's Taylor Law. And so this afternoon, we are expecting a little later this afternoon, Mr. Toussaint's attorney to show up in court. We'll have to see how that is actually resolved. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, we'll check back with you on that. Allan, thanks very much. A lot of people in New York City breathing a lot easier right now. The strike is off.

Let's go up to New York. Once again, Jack Cafferty is joining us. He's got "The Cafferty File," appropriately named. JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf. Americans are reeling from news that apparently our government has been spying on us without bothering to get a court order. And now it looks like big brother is all set to invade Britain, big time starting next year.

The newspaper "The Independent" is reporting that Britain will become the first country in the world to monitor every single car on the road. They're going to use a system of cameras and GPS technology to create a massive database and then the police, if they choose, can go back and analyze any car trip made during the previous several years, which is fine unless you happen to be visiting the Al-Motel (ph) out by Heathrow Airport during your lunch hour and perhaps don't want your significant other to know about your activities during that time.

So here's the question: How much surveillance is too much?

You can e-mail us at caffertyfile@cnn.com. We'll read some of your letters in about a half hour.

BLITZER: I don't know about you, Jack, but that sounds like a little bit too much to me.

CAFFERTY: Have you ever been to the Al-Motel out by Heathrow Airport?

BLITZER: I've been to Heathrow Airport, not that specific motel out there.

CAFFERTY: Oh, OK.

BLITZER: The Heathrow -- no, no, not that hotel.

Thanks, Jack, very much.

Coming up, we're keeping an eye on Capitol Hill to see if a single member of Congress blows up that tightly negotiated deal on the Patriot Act.

Congressman James Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, a powerful chairman in fact, about to hold a news conference on Capitol Hill -- will tell us what's going on.

We'll show you what's going on. Take his news conference live.

Also, exclusive pictures of Katrina as the hurricane happened. Never before seen video until now. And that disaster will clearly be shown in riveting terms. You'll want to see this.

Also ahead, the White House and secret spying. The Bush administration admits to wiretaps without a court order. Did other presidents do the same thing? A debate on the spying and the fallout.

And later, Saddam Hussein back in court today and back on the attack against the Bush White House.

You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There has been an important development on Capitol Hill in the House of Representatives involving the USA Patriot Act.

Let's go back to CNN's Andrea Koppel. She's got the very latest.

What has just happened, Andrea?

KOPPEL: Wolf, James Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, has just announced on the floor of the House where they're now in session that they have agreed now to a one-month extension of the Patriot Act.

The minority leader, Nancy Pelosi of California, had a statement read on her behalf. She wasn't there. And she said that although she wished the American people had more time to debate this, she would agree to it.

Now, the big question, Wolf, is whether the Senate will sign off on this.

They had held up the possibility, as we discussed earlier, of coming back into session at eight o'clock this evening, not all of the senators, but most likely a small sampling of them, if the House rejected any legislation or made any kind of changes to it. That clearly has happened.

So the big question is whether or not the Senate, which debated the Patriot Act for hours upon hours yesterday, Wolf, whether or not it would be extended. And then finally got the green light from the White House to extend it for six months.

So it remains to be seen whether the Republican leadership is going to be able to get the votes that they need and, in fact, whether or not President Bush will agree to this, Wolf.

BLITZER: And the Senate is supposed to now come back into session at eight o'clock tonight Eastern, is that right?

KOPPEL: That is correct, Wolf.

BLITZER: And they'll decide whether to go along with the House version, which is a one-month extension, as opposed to the six-month extension that they supported last night.

KOPPEL: That's right.

And that would mean, since it's a one-month extension of the Patriot Act, at least many of the provisions of the Patriot Act were set to expire in December 31st, so nine days from today. If there were to be a one-month extension, they're saying that it would then expire on February 3rd -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. We'll continue to watch it with you. Andrea Koppel, thanks very much.

Important news on Capitol Hill.

Meanwhile, many Americans believe President Bush still has some explaining to do about his controversial decision to authorize wiretaps involving American citizens without court warrants. Among those asking questions, members of a secret court that oversee spying in terror cases.

Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena is joining us now with more on this story -- Kelli?

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.

It's known as the FISA court.

You'll remember that earlier this week we reported that one of its judges resigned in protest over the domestic spying program. Well, after James Robertson's resignation, a briefing was planned to answer questions for other judges who may be concerned about the program as well.

CNN reached one of the FISA court judges this morning, Judge Malcolm Howard (ph). He wouldn't discuss whether he was told any details about the spying program, but he does say that he's concerned about his colleague's resignation and feels that judges should not enter the political fray.

Wolf, it's obviously not only the judges who will be briefed. As you know, many members of Congress are demanding hearings on the NSA program, concerned that it's just not legally justified.

BLITZER: Do we know if the White House over these past four years informed the FISA court judges about its unilateral decision to go ahead with the surveillance without court warrants?

ARENA: We know that one -- the judge overseeing the FISA court got a brief description, but obviously, not all of them knew the details about this program.

As I said, we did try to reach out to several today. They would not call us back. The one that we did reach wouldn't talk about whether or not he had been briefed.

But several sources indicate that at least one of the judges was -- they'll be hearing it all now, Wolf, you know, in gory detail.

And as you know, the intelligence community is really concerned about more and more details of this program getting out, because they say the more that is known, the more public it is, the less useful it is for intelligence gathering.

BLITZER: Kelli Arena reporting for us.

Thanks, Kelli, very much. Now to some dramatic new images that we're just getting in, images that drive home the horror when Hurricane Katrina first hit Louisiana. This is a CNN exclusive.

Brian Todd joins us from the newsroom to show us these powerful new pictures.

What's going on, Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, CNN has obtained what may be one of the more compelling video images we've seen of Hurricane Katrina. We're going to take you back to August 29th in Slidell, Louisiana. This is far from the Gulf Coast, at least 30 miles inland, depending on the geographical angle on the shore of Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana.

The gentleman who shot this video, Kenner Jackly (ph) told me he started videotaping his house just before the storm hit to be able to show his insurance company what he lost. Well as the water kept rising, Jackly kept on rolling and it got pretty scary. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people's treasures floating down the stream here now. Man, this is unbelievable. Whoo. When's this thing supposed to stop? Whoo. The whole floor's shaking underneath me. There must be a bunch of houses out down there. All right, man. I got the -- there goes Charley's (ph) boat house, it's taking off now. Poor Charley. Little boat underneath there, man.

Least you're out of here. I don't know if I can get out or not. I'll probably -- the whole floor is buckling up down below me. This is how they work it when they get -- oh man, that's all my stuff coming out the door, them sliding glass doors down there. Just seen the T.V. going out the front door. Man, I can't hardly wait. The water's going down quite a bit, though. I think it's on its way out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: Kenner Jackly is a former merchant Marine. He has lived at that house since 1972, and he says he has never seen anything like that storm. Jackly told me the entire bottom floor of his house is still destroyed and the insurance company hasn't paid nearly what he hoped they would for repairs. He is selling copies of this tape to help raise money for reconstruction of his house. We're going to show you much more of this extraordinary footage in the next hour and at 7 p.m. right here in THE SITUATION ROOM and Kenner Jackly will be our guest at the 7:00 p.m. hour, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Brian, thanks very much. And to our viewers, you're going to want to join us at 7:00 p.m. Lots more of this extraordinary videotape. You've not seen it before. Amazing videotape of what happened in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Still ahead, the Pentagon chief in Iraq. What's Donald Rumsfeld saying now about when the troops may be coming home? And President Bush's decision to authorize secret spying: was it illegal, was it legal? Could it be an impeachable offense? We'll debate the law, the politics, all of this coming up. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There is a developing story just coming in from Miami right now. Let's go to the CNN Center, Zain Verjee, she's standing by with details. Hi, Zain.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf, we've been following the story of the suspected serial rapist that escaped on Tuesday from a west Miami-Dade county jail. His name is Reynaldo Rapalo. This was the man that used bed sheets to lower himself seven stories to escape. He's considered armed and dangerous. He's been accused of raping seven females from 11-to-79 years-old and also accused of trying to attack four others.

The developments today have been this, Wolf. The head of the Miami-Dade corrections department has announced this. Two corrections officers at the county jail have been relieved of their duties with pay, pending the outcome of an investigation.

One of those two officers was assigned to the unit that the man escaped from. And the other officer was assigned to patrol the perimeter. Apparently six out of 247 interior cameras were found to be in need of service. Two of the 23 roof cameras weren't working. Now they're all in the process now of being fixed. Apparently also this memo reads that all vent covers will be welded shut now and police have announced a reward of $16,000.

In other news, Saddam Hussein's trial has been adjourned until January the 24th. Earlier today an Iraqi judge said officials saw no evidence Saddam Hussein was beaten by his U.S. captors. The former Iraqi leader claimed yesterday that he and seven codefendants were tortured. Today he called the U.S. denial, "lies." Trial witnesses today testified that Iraqi security forces beat and tortured female and elderly prisoners after an 1982 attempt on Saddam Hussein's life in Dujail.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld made an unannounced holiday visit to Iraq today. Arriving in Baghdad, he met with the top U.S. commander in Iraq, General George Casey. Rumsfeld also hints the number of U.S. troops in Iraq could soon drop. About 160,000 U.S. forces are there now. But Rumsfeld says the number could go to below 138,000. That's the baseline.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair also making a holiday visit to Iraq today. He met with the British troops here as you see in Basra. Blair says that they are doing a brilliant job. The prime minister's office says Blair wanted to express his nation's gratitude to the 8,500 British troops serving in Iraq. Blair also said he won't set a deadline for pulling British troops out of Iraq.

And if you're taking a flight for the holidays, you're going to be able to bring more on board with you now. New airport screening procedures went into effect today. Now you can take small scissors and tools on planes, but there also will be more random passenger checks. The Transportation Security Administration says that the time saved in searching bags for items like scissors will basically be used instead to focus on things like looking for explosives. Wolf?

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Zain. We're going to get back to you very soon. Those new airline travel rules are online and our Internet reporter -- excuse me, Abbi Tatton has been digging through them. She's here now with more on some important travel tips you need to know before you head out for the holidays. Abbi?

ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, this is the TSA Web site here. They're trying to make it easier for you to navigate these new rules at the checkpoint.

Three things to look for here. First of all, in the changes at the checkpoint, these new random searches, what to expect. They're going to be different every time. You could have your footwear screened or you could have hand-wanding at the checkpoint there.

Also, a list of new prohibited items. The changes there, small scissors with blades under four inches allowed, along with small tools under seven inches. Complete list there that covers everything from eyelash curlers to cricket bats, whatever you might be taking on the plane this holiday.

And also, I wanted to point out, the holiday list there, underling points like: Don't wrap your presents if you're traveling on the plane. They're only going to get unwrapped during these tests -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Abbi, thank you very much.

All right, the White House reacting to this latest development on Capitol Hill involving an abbreviated extension of the USA Patriot Act. Let's head over to our White House correspondent Elaine Quijano. What are you picking up, Elaine?

QUIJANO: And Wolf, just moments ago, I spoke with a senior administration official here who tells me if in fact the House and Senate come to an agreement on this one-month extension proposed, that that is something that President Bush would be willing to go along with.

Now, of course, they're monitoring the developments on Capitol Hill very closely. President Bush, though, left as we noted earlier today. Already beginning his weekend thinking that a deal was in fact close, if not done when he headed off to Camp David to start the Christmas holiday weekend.

But this development certainly unexpected, Wolf, from this end of Pennsylvania Avenue. They are watching it, but again a senior administration official telling me just moments ago that a one-month extension is something that the president would be willing to go along with.

BLITZER: And just to recap for our viewers, Elaine, originally the White House did not want any extension whatsoever. The 16 provisions, they lapsed. They end at the end of this year, December 31st. The White House wanted them extended indefinitely. That did not happen because of Senate opposition, the filibuster, which the Republicans could not defeat.

As a result, the Senate went ahead with a six-month extension. The House has now gone along with a one-month extension. And what you're reporting is that if the Senate goes along with one month, the president will go along with one month as well. Is that right?

QUIJANO: That's exactly right. And you're absolutely correct. This coming just one day after President Bush unsuccessfully appealed to senators to fully reauthorize the Patriot Act, as you mentioned. But of course, as I said earlier, the president left here thinking that in fact, the six-month extension is what had been agreed to. And so they continue to watch and wait and see what happens on Capitol Hill -- Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Elaine. Thanks very much. We'll continue to watch and see what the Senate does now.

Up next, did the Bush White House cross the legal line when the president authorized wiretaps without court warrants? It's the question many people are asking around the country. They're arguing about it. We're going to take on the issue again. That's coming up next.

And later, President Bush and the African-American vote. Can he repair relationships damaged by Hurricane Katrina? You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. President Bush may be starting his Christmas break, but he's not getting a holiday over the controversy over secret spying. Did Mr. Bush do something illegal or impeachable? We're joined now by deputy assistant attorney general Victoria Toensing, former White House special counsel Lanny Davis.

Vickie, you called in yesterday. You've researched, you've looked closely at it. You think the president is on strong ground.

VICTORIA TOENSING, FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: Very strong legal grounds, yes. The Supreme Court has not spoken to the issue, but specifically did not speak to the issue when it was deciding a domestic surveillance case. And all the court of appeals decisions that have addressed the issue, including the FISA court, have said that the president does have the inherent authority.

BLITZER: So he did nothing wrong?

TOENSING: He did nothing. No, he did nothing illegal. He followed the law. He did everything he was supposed to do. He went to Congress, he told them, just as he was supposed to do. The Clinton administration, as I pointed out yesterday, said the president has the constitutional authority to do -- yes. BLITZER: Let's ask Lanny Davis.

TOENSING: Warrantless searches.

BLITZER: He's a prominent attorney here in Washington. You worked in the Clinton White House. What do you say?

LANNY DAVIS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SPECIAL COUNSEL: First of all, it's not correct. There's never been a decision by any administration to authorize domestic eavesdropping since the FISA court was established except for this administration. Now, there may be a legal argument why they're allowed to ignore the FISA court. One judge has resigned.

My question, and I don't think Victoria has answered it, is why not go to the FISA court and get authority, or after the fact, if they don't have the time, why not get ratification for the eavesdropping? Why ignore the FISA court?

TOENSING: Well, I had to work with it, so I sort of know what the factual gaps are with FISA. First of all, we don't call it domestic. It's international phone calls, and that's a very important distinction, legally. That's crucial.

BLITZER: But some domestic phone calls were inadvertently recorded.

TOENSING: Right, and a solution to that -- that happens in every single wiretap. It's not unusual. It's minimization. You erase it.

BLITZER: So what's the answer to Lanny's question, which is why not go to FISA and let them issue -- it's almost a rubber stamp.

TOENSING: No it, isn't.

BLITZER: Of the thousands of requests, they've only declined, what, four or five.

TOENSING: Yes, but that's because the people at the Justice Department who are career people know exactly what's required. And if they even get over there and the court starts to look askance at their application, which is usually three to four inches thick, they back off and say, "OK, we're going to withdraw," and then they go back, and they either get more or they don't submit it again. So that's very misleading figure.

Here's a gap. Listen to this one. What happens when we get Osama bin Laden's -- just to use a name we know -- cell phone, and there's his 20 speed dial numbers in there and the last 20 phone calls he made? Most of them are outside of the United States, but three or four of them are in the United States.

Do we then say we're not going to do anything about those numbers, we're not going to find out -- wait a minute. A number in a terrorist cell phone does not rise to the standard of probable cause, so that doesn't fit under FISA. BLITZER: I suspect though, and I'll let Lanny respond, if you have a phone number from Osama bin Laden, that would rise to the standard for a FISA court judge, even ex-post facto to issue a warrant.

TOENSING: It isn't.

DAVIS: Let's be very clear with my friend Victoria. First of all, there are good-faith disagreements here. No one's accusing the president of deliberately law, at least I'm not. Secondly, what Victoria is saying is an assumption that you can't trust the law.

If Osama bin Laden's phone number appears or there's some terrorist threat and the government decides to eavesdrop without going to the FISA court, there is a provision that you can go back to the FISA court to ratify your decision and be subject to the rule of law. What Victoria is saying that in the rare instance that they're worried about the court, they don't want to risk having the law disagree with them. This is a country ruled by law. I just respectfully disagree with Victoria.

TOENSING: They had no problem. They appealed a decision early on in the administration. That was the court of appeals, the FISA court, that said the president had the inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches.

BLITZER: Did the president, your president when you served for Bill Clinton, did he authorize similar warrantless searches, surveillance, on American citizens?

DAVIS: No, he did not. He allowed foreign surveillance that involved warrantless searches under FISA and went to the FISA court for authority. What Victoria is saying -- and it's very interesting and a legitimate difference of opinion here -- what she is saying is we don't go to the FISA court because they may disagree with us that it's lawless what we're doing, and we don't want to take a risk the court will disagree with us.

This is the fundamental difference. Senator Sununu and a lot of conservative Republicans disagree, with all due respect, with Victoria. This is a country ruled by law, not ruled by the president.

TOENSING: Bill Clinton did a warrantless of Aldrich Ames' house. WE talked about this, a physical search. It's the same case law. It's Fourth Amendment.

BLITZER: Was he wire tapped as well, as far as you know?

TOENSING: They got in to wiretap him.

BLITZER: Were there warrantless wiretaps of Aldrich Ames?

TOENSING: It doesn't matter because the Fourth Amendment -- wait a minute. That was the whole issue. The wiretap was not warrantless, but the entry was, and it's the same -- it's very important. This is Fourth Amendment. I don't want to get too bogged down in the law. But as Jamie Gorelick said in that testimony, there's no difference in the legal analysis between the Fourth Amendment surveillance and entrance.

BLITZER: There's no difference you're saying between physical as opposed to wiretapping?

(CROSSTALK)

DAVIS: Then why not go back to FISA and get a ratification of the decision made?

TOENSING: I told you, because there are situations where it doesn't rise to probable cause. But people in this post-9/11 era say, "What are we going to do?"

DAVIS: It's a complete difference of going to the law versus ignoring the law, and that's where we are in this difference of opinion.

BLITZER: We've got to leave it, but a good discussion, a serious discussion. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

And coming up, President Bush says he wants to improve his relationship with all Americans, especially African Americans. And it appears the president is making efforts to do exactly that. Our Chris Lawrence standing by. He's going to tell us what's going on.

And it's new video exclusive to CNN. What happens when a violent raging hurricane strikes your home? One man puts his terrifying tale on tape as Hurricane Katrina struck his home in Louisiana. We're going to show you lots more of this video. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: It appears to be at least some would say a presidential response to a Grammy award winning rapper. Months after Kanye West made those controversial comments about President Bush after Hurricane Katrina, the president seems to have heard it and seems to be responding. That's the suggestion that's out there. Let's go out to L.A. Chris Lawrence standing by with an explanation of what's going on -- Chris?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the president is trying to repair a relationship that was rocky to begin with. And his image took a further beating among African Americans when it looked like he was initially unresponsive to those Hurricane Katrina victims. Heading into an election year, he's making some obvious moves to change things.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: Three times in the last three months, President Bush has met with NAACP president Bruce Gordon. "The New York times" suggests the president is trying to recruit black voters and mend fences with some of his toughest critics. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of the most hurtful things I can hear is, "Bush didn't doesn't care about African- Americans."

LAWRENCE: He heard it recently at a benefit for Hurricane Katrina victims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Bush doesn't care about black people.

LAWRENCE: It's even been put to music on this Internet video. To some, it's an image ingrained in pop mythology.

ARNOLD STEINBERG, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL STRATEGIST: It's ironic because this is a president who's appointed so many African Americans all the way from cabinet positions down the line.

LAWRENCE: Political strategist Arnold Steinberg says President Bush is taking too much blame for what happened after hurricane.

STEINBERG: Had the mayor of New Orleans been white, I think you would have soon the head of the NAACP taking him to task.

JOE HICKS, COMMUNITY ADVOCATES INC.: Can he turn his image around in the remaining time? Probably very difficult to do.

LAWRENCE: But community advocate Joe Hicks says President Bush has to try, if not for himself, then for others in his party.

HICKS: Certainly any future Republican that runs for president will be aided by how the president -- able to chip away at this imagery.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: Yes, it could pay off as early as next year when President Bush's image could help or hurt all those Republicans running for reelection in the House and Senate -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Chris Lawrence reporting from Los Angeles. Thanks, Chris, very much.

Up next, our strategy session. With a Patriot Act cliffhanger and President Bush now out of town, our experts will have plenty to debate.

And it's a tragic twist of fate. A pro football coach is loved by fans and steers his team to a very winning record. Then tragedy strikes his family. We'll tell you about the situation with the Indianapolis Colts' head coach, Tony Dungy. That's coming up in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Here in Washington, 'tis the season for rancor and debate with new threats over the fate of the USA Patriot Act, ongoing arguments about the government's secret spying program, and President Bush leaving town.

Joining us now, our guests, radio talk show host Bill Press. Also, he's the author of the book "How the Republicans Stole Christmas." Terry Jeffrey is the editor of the conservative weekly "Human Events." Thanks, guys, very much for joining us.

A little brinkmanship involving the USA Patriot Act on Capitol Hill. Last night, the Senate goes along with a six-month extension of all the provisions. Today in a surprise, the House, James Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee says one month and one month only. Now it's going to be up to the Senate to decide what to do. What do you make of this?

BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: You know what I think is interesting, Wolf, is that I think it's a double victory for Democrats in the Senate yesterday. On the Patriot Act, they held firm; Republicans joined them, of course. On ANWAR, the Democrats held firm; they were able to block that.

BLITZER: On the Arctic National Refuge.

PRESS: Drilling in the Arctic National Refuge. Unusual victory for Democrats. But I think what's more significant is how many Republicans showed that they were willing to stand up to the president, walk away from their president.

And we've seen it with John McCain on torture, we saw it with Sununu and others on the Patriot Act, on ANWAR, and on this spying issue. I think it shows the extent to which the Bush administration, their political power, has eroded. And I think there are going to be even more defections in 2006.

BLITZER: It's interesting that James Sensenbrenner, he's a very good, loyal, Republican conservative, is willing to say, "You know what? I don't like that six-month deal," even after the president personally endorsed it.

TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, "HUMAN EVENTS": Well, they want the issues of the Patriot Act settled, Wolf, once and for all. But I think it's important to remember both ANWAR and the Patriot Act, you have a majority in the Senate who are for it. You have a minority who's basically using a filibuster to block it.

And when you look at some of the conservative objections to the Patriot Act, it's not about the whole act. It's not even about some of the parts that have been most controversial in the press. There are very narrow criticisms.

For example, Senator John Sununu of New Hampshire is primarily opposed to these national security letters where, in fact, an FBI agent can go out and look at financial records without the order of a court. He's not opposing the other parts of the act. I think it's important for the Congress to look at these things a little more carefully, but in a month's time, to come down and approve this thing once and for all. PRESS: See, I think this is an extremely important debate because it is the issue of whether we can protect our civil liberties and still fight the war on terror at the same time. And you can't attack Larry Craig and call him a wild liberal, nor John Sununu. What they're saying is there's serious questions about the extent to which the Patriot Act invades our right of privacy, maybe even undermines the Constitution. And they didn't buy George Bush's argument that we've got to go along with it.

BLITZER: Senator Bill Frist, the Republican majority leader in the Senate, said last night, listen to what he said. Let's play that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: The Democrats obstructed that. Flat out obstructed that. And they can killed it, and they celebrated it. So I made a decision not to -- a few hours ago, to extend, since they did kill it -- and they should be ashamed of that -- made the decision to extend it for six months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: To which the Democratic Senator Russ Feingold of Wisconsin quoted in "The New York times" as saying this, quote, "They lost the game of chicken."

JEFFREY: Well, I don't think so. I think the Patriot Act is going to be extended. As I said, already a majority of the Senate and a majority of the House are behind this. A lot of the things Democrats are opposing to, for example, sneak and peek warrants, roving wiretaps, the Republicans involved in this filibuster are not against those things. There are very narrow questions they want answered. I believe they will be answered. The act will be passed.

BLITZER: All right. Before you respond to that, I want to play what the president said just before leaving for Camp David, south side of the White House. Listen to what he said today, touting his record of accomplishment this year. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: This has been a year of strong progress toward a freer, more peaceful world and a prosperous America. We had three sets of elections in Iraq. It's an amazing moment in the history of liberty. New parliament has been seated in Afghanistan.

Our economy is strong and getting stronger. People are working. We've added 4.5 million new jobs since April of 2003. Productivity is up, small businesses are flourishing, home ownership is high. It's been a good year for the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Sounds like a pretty impressive record. PRESS: Well, merry Christmas, Mr. President, but I think he's not living in the real world. He's back in his bubble. That's the problem with him. I'm thinking about Hurricane Katrina, disaster. I'm thinking about Harriet Miers, disaster. I'm thinking about Scooter Libby, the number two chief staff guy in the White House who's indicted. Karl Rove still under investigation.

The Social Security thing went down in flames. He had the cave in to John McCain on torture. He can't get the Patriot Act, he can't get ANWAR. He's now in trouble for spying on Americans without getting a court provision. I think it's been a disastrous year for the Bush administration.

BLITZER: Is it a disaster, or is it terrific?

JEFFREY: No, Wolf, I can tell you, as a conservative who sometimes is honestly critical of the president, didn't like his nomination of Harriet Miers, the president really has bragging rights on the two most important things, the economy and national security.

We had the economy grow at better than 4 percent in the third quarter. It's still growing well. Unemployment is at 5.0 percent, that's lower than the historical average in the '70s, the '80s, and '90s. The economy's doing great, everybody knows it.

BLITZER: Are you -- we're out of time. But you're not happy with the record budget deficits?

JEFFREY: Absolutely not. And actually, it was a good step moving forward now with a $40 billion cut in entitlements. You have House conservatives energized to deal with the entitlement problem. Long-term, Republicans and Democrats have to deal with that. Republicans are now leading, Democrats are not.

PRESS: It's his budget, it's his budget deficit. This is a bad year for George Bush.

JEFFREY: Democrats want to spend more. They want to spend more and tax more.

PRESS: You're in charge of the Senate. You're in charge of the Senate, and the House, and the White House. Take responsibility.

BLITZER: Fine. Thanks, guys. Bill Press, Terry Jeffrey, thanks to both of you for joining us.

Still to come, more on the fate of the Patriot Act. We're going to go live to Capitol Hill for more on the tense negotiations under way right now, only days before Congress -- at least hours before Congress was supposed to adjourn for the holidays.

And then, some liken it to big brother watching. Government spying on its citizens in the name of national security. But how much surveillance is too much? Jack Cafferty has your email. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's go right up to New York and Jack Cafferty. Hi, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Hi, Wolf. A British newspaper is reporting that Britain is soon going to be the first country in the world to monitor every single car on the road. They're going to use a system of cameras and GPS technology, create a massive database that police can then use to analyze any car trip made going back over several years.

That's a little scary. Here's the question, how much surveillance is too much?

Michael writes from Oceanside, New York, "If it's acceptable for phone records to be stored in a database and subpoenaed later, electronic logging of driving activity should be viewed and treated the same way. Drivers must know about the practice in advance and the records must remain secure unless law enforcement has specific evidence that certain records could help solve or prevent a crime."

Joseph in Oceanside, California: "I never did understand why Britain became a democracy. Now they can disband the parliament and return its monarchy to its proper place. Queen Elizabeth has been getting bored anyway, and this should lift her spirits. Then she can become closer buddies with King George Bush of the United States."

J.W. writes, "Let's see. If anybody gets my mother's maiden name and my Social Security number, they can ruin my retirement, ruin my credit, empty my bank account, and perhaps jeopardize my work. And that's with two pieces of information. How much is too much? We passed the too-much stage a while back."

Steve in La Quinta, California: "Any amount of surveillance other than what is absolutely necessary for the protection of the nation, its people, and normal surveillance of our borders is too much. And by the way, you and your others should try the George Washington Hotel just outside Narita Airport the next time you're in Tokyo."

Dan in Cincinnati writes, "It'd be totally cool if all the information was displayed on the zillions of screens you have in THE SITUATION ROOM."

BLITZER: Totally cool. In fact, it would be. Thanks very much, Jack. We're going to get back to you momentarily.

It's almost 5:00 p.m. here in Washington, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where news and information from around the world arrive at one place at the same time.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com