Return to Transcripts main page
The Situation Room
Ariel Sharon Clinging to Life; Carnage and Chaos in Iraq; Sago Mine Tragedy; George Bush Meets With Unlikely People
Aired January 05, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Jerusalem. And to our viewers around the world, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
Happening now, it's midnight here in Jerusalem, where the Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon's medical prospects are unknown and doctors say there's no way to guarantee his recovery.
It's 5:00 p.m. over in Washington, where President Bush is thinking outside of the box, at least for now, seeking advice on the road ahead in Iraq.
And in West Virginia, one miner is mourning what he lost but thankful for what he has. Owen Jones was deep inside the mine the morning of the blast, but he got out. His older brother did not.
I'm Wolf Blitzer in Jerusalem, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Right now, doctors say the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, is not breathing on his own and cannot respond to stimuli. The prime minister remains hospitalized and on life support after a severe stroke and hemorrhaging in his brain. With Mr. Sharon clinging to life, his powers have been temporarily transferred to the vice prime minister, Ehud Olmert. Olmert says Israel won't stop functioning but will continue to pray for Prime Minister Sharon's recovery.
Let's go straight to the hospital here in Jerusalem to get the very latest on how Sharon is doing.
Our John Vause is at the Hadassah Medical Center -- John.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, doctors here continue to give out the briefest of details regarding the prime minister's condition. What we know as of this hour, Ariel Sharon is in intensive care, he is on a life support machine, and he is in a medically- induced coma. He has been in that state ever since emerging from a marathon seven-hour procedure in the operating room.
Doctors say that medically-induced coma is necessary to give his body a chance to repair the damage done by that massive stroke he suffered on Wednesday night. And they say he could be in that state for 24 hours, possibly 48 hours, maybe even 72 hours.
What they are not talking about is Ariel Sharon's long-term prognosis. They say right now it is simply too early to make those kinds of predictions.
What they will be doing throughout the night here at the hospital will be monitoring Sharon's condition. When they believe the time is right, they'll gradually try to revive the prime minister, they'll monitor his brain activity.
So, once again, Ariel Sharon entering yet another crucial stage here at Hadassah hospital -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Is there anyone you've spoken to in Israel over the past 24, 36 hours, 24 hours specifically since we learned of this massive stroke who believes Sharon might be able to recover enough to resume a political career?
VAUSE: Not one person I have spoken to since we found out the true extent of the damage caused by that stroke believes that Ariel Sharon will come out of this and be able to lead the country. Having said that, it is not beyond the realms of possibility, but certainly everybody I've been speaking with, from the prime minister's aides, on down to the taxi driver who brought me here to the hospital tonight, Wolf, believes that this really is the end for the prime minister, his political career, at least, is now over -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. We'll wait and watch together with you and see what happens.
John Vause reporting from the Hadassah Medical Center in Jerusalem. More on this story later this hour.
But let's move to Iraq now, where there's more carnage and more chaos. The deadliest day there in almost four months, leaving dozens of people dead, including five U.S. troops.
Our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre will have more on the American soldiers killed, but we begin with CNN's Jennifer Eccleston in Baghdad.
Jennifer, what's going on?
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf, it's Iraqi civilians bearing the brunt of today's bloodshed. In the Sunni stronghold of Ramadi in western Iraq, a suicide bomber detonated an explosive vest during a crowded police recruitment drive. Iraqi officials put the number of dead now at 80, with over 70 people wounded.
Now, over the last couple of months, Wolf, Ramadi has seen numerous car and suicide bombs, as well as battles with U.S. forces -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jennifer, what about the suicide bombing in Karbala?
ECCLESTON: Yes, that's right. In the holy city of Karbala, southern Iraq, another suicide bomber detonated explosives in a vest in a pedestrian square between two revered Shiite shrines. The death toll was at this stage 45 dead, and double the number wounded, about 82 wounded.
Among them, Iranian nationals. And the death toll was so high, Wolf, due to the large number of pilgrims in the square this Thursday. Thursday is the beginning of the weekend here, and it's the day before the Muslim holy day of prayer. So January already proving to be a very deadly month -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jennifer Eccleston in Baghdad for us.
Jennifer, be careful over there. Thank you very much.
Now more on the five U.S. troops killed in the attacks. Let's go to our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre in Washington -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as Jennifer said, this has been one of the deadliest days in about four months, and again, evidence that even an up-armored Humvee that was carrying five U.S. soldiers was scant protection against the powerful roadside bombs that are now used by insurgents.
Five soldiers killed on patrol in the Baghdad area of Iraq. That brings to seven the number of U.S. soldiers killed just so far this year and brings the overall total to 2,187 U.S. dead in Iraq since the invasion of March 2003.
A lot of questions today for the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who briefed reporters here at the Pentagon about how long this intense level of violence will last. He said he doesn't have a crystal ball, but he did predict that as the new Iraqi government takes control, the insurgents will have fewer plays to hide and to launch their attacks. And he says it's his belief that over the coming year the level of violence will eventually subside -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre reporting for us.
Jamie, thank you very much.
What a day in Iraq.
This hour, we're also watching the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon's condition. We will show you my interview with him, the interview I conducted only a few months ago.
But first, let's go back to CNN's John King for a quick look at some other stories making news.
Hi, John.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello to you, Wolf. Back to you in just a few moments.
First, though, as you noted, a quick update on some major developments here today.
A memorial service being planned for the 12 men who died in that West Virginia mine disaster. It's tentatively planned, that service is, for January 15.
CNN's Brian Todd talked today to one man who came very close to becoming another victim.
Brian is live for us now in Upshur County -- Brian
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, it is an extraordinary, very compelling family story. The bodies of the 12 miners, according to state medical examiners, will be returned to their families by this weekend. One of those bodies is that of 44-year-old Jessie Jones.
His extraordinary story, he died in the mine, his brother, Owen Jones, was also in the mine and survived. Here's part of my conversation earlier today with Owen Jones.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Can you give your account of what happened in the mine on Monday morning when you and your brother went in?
OWEN JONES, MINER: Well, they go in first, because they're (INAUDIBLE), and I pulled up with the mantrip right behind him like we always do. But the mantrip I had I didn't realize was too small to haul all my crew in. So I went and took it back in the yard to switch out, hoping our bigger mantrip -- by that time, they then started in ahead of us and was not in our sight, even the whole time we got up to where the explosion has happened.
We got to the switch, to our section where we break off and go up to our section, and my miner operator, Roger Perry, got out to throw the switch. And when he sat back down, there was no warning, no nothing. Just an incredible amount of air, more than what you can even possibly imagine, and dust.
And you could not see. It absolutely blew me -- I got up on the mantrip to try to get off and get out of it, somewhere, somehow, and it blew me off it. It made me -- I was standing there and it made be walk four or five feet forward before it ever stopped blowing.
When I opened my eyes from all the -- you could not see nothing, just dust. It was so dark that you could -- with your light looking down at the ground, you couldn't even see the ground hardly.
TODD: Was there -- you say there was just air and dust and smoke.
JONES: There was a little bit of heat, but not very much.
TODD: Did you hear anything? Was there a big blast?
JONES: You couldn't hear nothing because of all the air, the force of the air. It just -- I don't know how to even describe it. Like you hear a freight train going by or how they talk about the hurricanes -- or tornadoes, just something like that.
TODD: What did you do then? JONES: Just hollering. We were all hollering at each other, making sure everybody was all right. And everybody hollering, "We need to get to the intake."
Everybody -- because you couldn't see nothing. Everybody was just trying to get to the fresh air, is all I'm saying.
TODD: And then what did you do? Were you able to walk out?
JONES: Yes. I told my men, once we got to the fresh air, I told them to get outside, walk the intake. I said I'm going to stay.
They begged me to go, but I said, "I've got a brother in here. I'm going to see if there's -- I've got to stay. I'm going to see if there's anything I can do to see if I can get up there somehow, some way." And they begged me to go because we all knew it was carbon monoxide.
My detector went off immediately after all that. So I waited there in the fresh air, and back and forth the track. Plus, I called outside from a telephone and told them we have an explosion in here, get help in here right now.
TODD: Carbon monoxide was what was keeping you out.
JONES: Right.
TODD: There was no debris wall or anything like that, no collapsed roof or anything?
JONES: No roof fell, but it blew (INAUDIBLE) out, yes, it did.
TODD: Do you think you could have done anything else to try to get to them?
JONES: No, not without the -- no, you're just putting your own life in danger, and anybody else who goes in there.
TODD: Forgive me for asking this. Do you feel any sense of guilt that you got out and your brother didn't?
JONES: You always feel that. It's going through my mind like a tape recorder just over and over, wishing that I would have tried this, wishing I could have done that. Yes, it hurts you.
TODD: What do you think he was doing in his last moments?
JONES: Probably thinking of his family, his daughter, and all -- I mean, just -- I don't know, just everything. Everything that you possibly could think you would think.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: I also asked Owen Jones about the record of safety violations of the International Coal Group and that particular mine. He said neither he nor his brother ever was concerned about the safety of the mine. They do not blame mining officials for the accident, and they said that the mining company responded as well as it could to it -- John.
KING: A chilling account, Brian. Brian, thank you very much.
Brian Todd for us, still live at the scene of that mine disaster.
We'll have much more on the mine disaster in just a few minutes, including an update. A change in the condition of the only survivor. He's being transferred to a new hospital for treatment.
Also, details of some notes some of the victims wrote to their families before they died.
But now back to the day's other big story, the condition of the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon. Let's go back now to Jerusalem and Wolf -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, John.
We're in Jerusalem, we're watching Ariel Sharon's condition. He's in grave condition at a hospital here in the Israeli capital.
Here's an unexpected development related to this story. The religious broadcaster Pat Robertson today seemed to characterize Ariel Sharon's stroke as some sort of divine retribution for pulling out of Gaza and parts of the West Bank.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT ROBERTSON, RELIGIOUS BROADCASTER: Now Ariel Sharon, who is, again, a very likeable person, a delightful person to be with, I prayed with him personally, but here he's at the point of death. He was dividing god's land.
And I would say whoa onto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the EU, the United Nations, or the United States of America. God says this land belongs to me. You better leave it alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A spokesman says Pat Robertson was simply referring to what's in the Old Testament's Book of Job and not showing any personal antagonism toward Mr. Sharon.
The Israeli ambassador to the United States, though, Daniel Ayalon, here in THE SITUATION ROOM within the past hour called Robertson's remarks simply outrageous.
We'll have much more on this story, by the way, coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM during our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour.
Meanwhile, let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty standing by from New York.
Reverend Robertson never ceases to amaze a lot of people, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: You know, it's time, I think, for him to enter the monastery and take a vow of silence. Isn't that what the Benedictine monks did? Go to the monastery, take the vow of silence...
BLITZER: That's not going to happen. That's not going to happen.
CAFFERTY: ... and shut up, because we're tired of listening to you.
The future of the roadmap to peace, Wolf, could be a big question mark without Ariel Sharon. The Israeli elections are coming up at the end of March. Many Israelis think that Sharon is the only leader who can bring about peace talks with the Palestinians.
A couple of major ironies about this man who's been on the world stage for years.
Earlier in his career, he was a fierce, brilliant military commander, fought in a couple of wars for Israel. He also was one of the main architects and supporters of Israeli settlements in occupied Arab territories.
His stubbornness and uncontrollability kept him from rising to the top. He did serve as defense minister under Menachem Begin for a time.
Recently, Ariel Sharon withdrew from the conservative Likud party and formed the more moderate Kadima party, sort of Bill Clintonesque, moving toward the center. He was elected prime minister in a landslide in 2001, and suddenly, this aging warrior began pushing for peace with the Palestinians and calling for the dismantlement of the settlements and the withdrawal of the Israelis from Gaza and parts of the West Bank.
Sharon is widely considered outside Israel as perhaps the best hope for a lasting deal with the Palestinians. So these latest developments are a grave cause for concern.
Here is the question this hour: How will Ariel Sharon's health affect the Middle East peace process?
You can e-mail us your thoughts at CaffertyFile@CNN.com -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Good question, Jack. A lot of people right here in the Middle East asking that question right now, and beyond.
Up ahead, you know about his stroke and that he's on life support right now. What are the chances, though, that the Israeli prime minister could make a full recovery? I'll ask one medical expert about the odds. And their final thoughts in their final hours. Some of those doomed West Virginia miners wrote notes to their relatives detailing their ordeal. We'll tell you what they had to say.
And the one miner who survived, we'll tell you just how he's doing.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: A heart-breaking new detail is emerging from the mine disaster in West Virginia. At least one of the victims left behind a note for his family.
CNN's Kimberly Osias is live on the scene for us in Upshur County with the details -- Kimberly.
KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, John.
Well, details are still coming in to us about the specifics of that note, but what I can tell you is at least one miner who was down in that shaft on that fateful day wrote at least one note to his loved one. And as you can certainly imagine, I mean, these families have been grieving, they are now grieving, and it opens up the wounds to some degree, they've told me, all over again.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OSIAS (voice over): We may never know exactly what happened during the more than 40 hours that passed before rescue crews reached the miners. But now there are clues.
Relatives say one of the 12 men who died in the Sago Mine left behind a note to his loved ones. While no details have been released, the note apparently sought to reassure the family that the men weren't suffering.
Bill Rogers, whose brother-in-law died in the mine, says the note seems to indicate the men were "going to sleep." He tells me that their only comfort would be that there was no suffering.
The victims were found more than two miles into the mine behind a plastic barrier they put up to keep out carbon monoxide gas which rescuers found elsewhere in the mine to be at very high levels. People overcome by carbon monoxide fall unconscious before dying from lack of oxygen.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
OSIAS: And one family member I spoke to said she feels very comforted, because now she believes that her loved had time to pray -- John.
KING: Kimberly Osias, live for us at the scene at the Sago Mine in Upshur County, West Virginia. Thank you very much, Kimberly Osias.
And there are new developments this hour in the case of the sole survivor of that disaster. Doctors have decided to move Randal McCloy from the hospital in Morgantown, West Virginia, to a hospital in Pittsburgh. That facility in Pittsburgh has a hyperbaric oxygen chamber which doctors hope will help with McCloy's treatment.
McCloy is in a coma, and his condition has been described as guarded and serious.
New developments also in the case of Jose Padilla, held for almost four years as an enemy combatant. He's now being transferred to civilian custody.
CNN Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena is here with the latest on that story -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: John, in just about 10 minutes, terror suspect Jose Padilla will face a federal magistrate. You'll notice I said "terror suspect," not enemy combatant. And that's because he is formally in the Department of Justice custody, set to face those criminal charges against him.
We did get some video of his arrival. This is the first time that we have gotten a glimpse of Padilla. As you know, he's been held in solitary confinement for nearly four years.
He was under heavy, heavy guard. Obviously, security a major issue when transporting a terror suspect.
As I said, he'll be before that judge in just about 10 minutes. At issue is his defense, because the lawyers who have been representing him in New York probably will not take this criminal case in Miami. So that would be the first order of business, is to find out who will be defending him.
Separately, his larger case before the Supreme Court as to whether or not his detention was constitutional in the first place is still on track -- John.
KING: More on this story in the hours and days ahead.
Kelli Arena, thank you very much.
And now from the United States, back to our Wolf Blitzer in Jerusalem -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, John.
Coming up, my interview with the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon. I spoke with him in April when he was visiting Washington. We'll have some of the highlights of that candid conversation.
And also coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour here in THE SITUATION ROOM, proving the existence of Jesus. It's at the center of a controversial lawsuit. We'll show you who is behind it.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Ariel Sharon in grave condition at the Hadassah Medical Center here in Jerusalem. We're watching his condition unfold.
I last spoke with Ariel Sharon back in April when he was in Washington. Our interview came during Israel's feverish preparations to uproot Jewish settlements from Gaza and parts of the West Bank. And Mr. Sharon, once the champion of the settlers, was under attack himself from Israel's right wing, which accused him of betrayal.
There were serious concerns about a possible assassination attempt. I asked him about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: The atmosphere is an at atmosphere that looks like an eve of civil war. But I can tell you that I'm going to take every step, you know, that that will not happen.
BLITZER: When you say a civil war, you mean Israeli Jews fighting Israeli Jews? That would be almost unheard of in Israel.
SHARON: Well, I would say during the last revolt (INAUDIBLE).
BLITZER: Well, that was, you know, hundreds of years ago.
SHARON: But that's some years ago, yes.
BLITZER: There was the incident when an Israeli Jew assassinated your friend, the former prime minister of Israel, Yitzhak Rabin, 10 years ago almost exactly.
How concerned are you about your security?
SHARON: That doesn't interfere in my plans or in my timetable. I work as usual, and I do what I have to do. And myself, I'm going to make every effort that that atmosphere that you can see now will not become a reality.
BLITZER: Do you worry, though, about another far right zealot, an Israeli Jew wanting to kill you or other members of your cabinet, your government, or military leadership?
SHARON: I think that our security service has taken steps, all the needed steps in order to avoid that. That, as I said, doesn't interfere in my -- not in my plans and not in my timetable. I work as I used to work beforehand.
BLITZER: So the notion of a civil war really erupting in Israel, is that -- is that a concern that you have?
SHARON: I would say, as I mentioned, and I spoke about, an atmosphere which is (INAUDIBLE) terrible incitement, and I can assure you one thing, that I'm going to take every step in order to avoid it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Ariel Sharon speaking with me at Blair House in Washington, D.C., earlier last year in April, right after his talks with President Bush.
What does his illness mean for U.S. policy toward Israel, toward the rest of the Middle East? Let's get some specific details from our CNN State Department correspondent, Andrea Koppel -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, they come from different generations, they have very different styles. But despite that, Ariel Sharon and George Bush have one what U.S. officials described as a very close relationship.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL (voice over): Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had praise and prayers for Israel's prime minister.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: In hopes for his recovery, our prayers, our concerns are with his family and also with the Israeli government and people at this very difficult time.
KOPPEL: But the United States top diplomat would not address the question on the minds of many: What are the prospects of Mideast peace without Sharon? The answer, say some analysts, is not encouraging.
ROB MALLEY, FMR. CLINTON ADMIN. OFFICIAL: There really hasn't been a peace process since Sharon has been prime minister. If there's been anything, it's been a Sharon process. If he is removed from the scene, as there's every indication he will be, all of these actors are going to have to recalibrate and come up with policies of their own.
KOPPEL: For President Bush, it means uncertainty in a volatile region.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm glad you're here.
KOPPEL: His close relationship with the Israeli prime minister forged after the September 11 attacks grew even stronger when Sharon withdrew Jewish settlers and Israeli troops from Gaza and parts of the West Bank last year.
With Palestinians and Israelis set to go to polls in coming weeks, the U.S. had hoped President Abbas and Prime Minister Sharon would be reelected, paving the way for a renewed push for peace.
(END VIDEOTAPE) KOPPEL: Privately, U.S. officials acknowledge that ever since Sharon's stroke last month, they had begun to plan, if not to think, about a post-Sharon era. Still, a senior State Department official tells CNN that it would show a certain lack of respect and dignity if U.S. officials were to talk about those "what if" scenarios just yet -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Andrea Koppel at the State Department.
Andrea, thank you very much.
And coming up, look who is talking to President Bush, former secretaries of state, even some officials who have criticized the president's Iraq strategy. Why -- why these people and why now? We will have some specific details.
And Pat Robertson stirring controversy again -- the religious broadcaster suggests Ariel Sharon's stroke is some sort of divine retribution for uprooting Israeli settlements from Gaza and parts of the West Bank. A look at what he said, that's coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Jerusalem.
In trying to help guide the U.S. course in Iraq over the next several months and years, President Bush is now looking to the past.
Our Dana Bash is following an important meeting that occurred at the White House earlier today.
Dana, tell our viewers what happened.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was quite a gathering here at the White House and one that even the president's friends say was long overdue.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): Around the president's table, more than a dozen secretaries of state and defense who advised his predecessors in times of war and peace, some you may not expect a president critics describe as isolated to hear from.
BUSH: Not everybody around this table agreed with my decision to go into Iraq, and I fully understand that.
BASH: That was the point of the hour-long meeting, disarm critics by reaching out to them.
BUSH: We take to heart the advice. We appreciate your experience, and we appreciate... BASH: On the guest list, Democrats fiercely critical of this administration's foreign policy, like Clinton Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and Johnson Pentagon chief Robert McNamara, who directed the Vietnam debacle he openly regrets and some compare to Iraq, also, veteran Republicans like Alexander Haig and Lawrence Eagleburger, who offered a colorful report.
LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: The thing I thought was most interesting, it's clear the president has decided -- and for all of you who don't appreciate smoking, you can jump in a lake.
(LAUGHTER)
EAGLEBURGER: But I think the president clearly has decided that he has got to be more open.
BASH: But, yet again, a major Bush effort to reshape public opinion about Iraq was overshadowed by violent reality, the bloodiest day by far since elections last month, more than 130 people killed, including five U.S. soldiers by a roadside bombing and some 80 Iraqis at a police recruitment center in Ramadi.
Yet, participants inside the high-level White House meeting said even critics think the U.S. must stay.
FRANK CARLUCCI, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: We need to keep pushing ahead. There was nobody in the meeting that urged us to engage in an immediate pullout.
BASH: Suggestions ranged from finding a better battle plan against insurgents to still better communication from the president.
MELVIN LAIRD, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: We had a great exchange in there. Some of things he heard, he probably didn't like too well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: And part of that free exchange, according to former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, who talked to us earlier today, was, for example, from her point of view, she said that the president should not just say that he's out there for common ground, but actually actively pursue it. It's not just words, she said; it's deeds.
She said that's what she told the president. She said it was unclear whether or not he was actually going to act on her suggestions and others, because, she said, simply doesn't know the president. But he did take notes. She said she hopes this is not just going to be a one-time thing -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Dana Bash at the White House -- Dana, thank you very much.
The former Defense Secretary William Cohen was among them attending the meeting over at the White House. He's a member of our CNN Security Council. He's the president and CEO of The Cohen Group. He's joining us now live in THE SITUATION ROOM.
How did it go, Mr. Secretary?
WILLIAM COHEN, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I thought it went very well.
I think anyone who attended that meeting certainly walked through the doors and could immediately feel the weight of responsibility that anyone occupying the White House feels at every moment. All of us who were there in that room -- and that ranges back some 45 years to Bob McNamara -- understand, we have been there before. We have been in that room. We have had to weigh a number of decisions affecting the security of the United States and that of our allies.
And, so, it's always an important meeting when you hold it -- or it's held in the White House. And I think President Bush did the right thing by, at least symbolically, reaching out to many of those who have served in the past.
Winston Churchill once said that you can see much further in the future if you look further back into the past. I think that's what President Bush was doing.
BLITZER: Did it get at all tense in there? In other words, were some of his critics speaking what they would say truth to power, or were they intimidated, and it was sort of civil, or a more gentlemanly like type of meeting?
COHEN: Well, I don't think anyone was intimidated.
I think all of us tried to maintain a civil approach to the president of the United States. And he's certainly entitled to that. But no one was intimidated. I think all of us understood what was at stake here. There were many different views. Some disagree with the wisdom or the wisdom of proceeding, the prudence of proceeding in Iraq, but that is behind us.
We are there now. And the real question is, how do we exit in a successful fashion that leaves Iraq in a position of governance, self- governance, and in a position of some security? So, that really was the measure that was being discussed or the issues being raised by members who had different viewpoints, but, nonetheless, were, I think, united in the notion that we have to be successful, and we have various viewpoints to recommend as to how we might help on the political side of things or, certainly, in building support in the region for foreign investment into Iraq's future.
So, it was very gentlemanly, but I think very direct and very frank. No one was intimidated.
BLITZER: Did you -- was the president mostly in a listening mode or did you learn something about his strategy that you didn't know?
COHEN: I don't think we learned anything new in terms -- many of us have had briefings at the Pentagon over the years. And, so, what was being briefed to us at that time was fairly fresh in our minds. I think what was interesting to me is how engaged and energetic President Bush was. He was very direct. He listened. He took notes. And when he thought a response was required, he jumped in immediately. He -- so, he made a brief presentation, but was in a listening mode. And, whenever there was a suggestion made that he either agreed with or took issue with, he was very energetically engaged. And, so, I thought it was good exchange.
I have, as you know, on this program, recommended that the president do more of this sort of thing with members of the Congress, bringing key leaders from the House and the Senate, Republicans and Democrats, together at the White House and building a coalition there.
He needs a coalition of the willing in Iraq, and he also needs a coalition of the willing on Capitol Hill and throughout the country. And that's something, I think, he needs to do more of, and, hopefully, he will. I don't expect there will be that gathering of the old bulls, so to speak, too many times in the future.
I think the president is quite confident he has his national security team. And he's satisfied that they are giving him good advice. And, to the extent that any of us can contribute any additional comments to that, I think he's willing to accept it. But, beyond that, he's going to continue doing what he's doing with the team that he has. And the best that we can do is give some outside advice, as we see fit, from time to time.
BLITZER: William Cohen, the former defense secretary, as usual, thanks very much for joining us in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Lou Dobbs getting ready for his program that begins right at the top of the hour.
Lou, what are you working on?
LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Wolf, thank you very much.
At 6:00 p.m. Eastern tonight here on CNN, one of the worst days of violence in Iraq in three years -- President Bush trying a new tactic to sell his war strategy. We will be going live to the White House and Baghdad.
Also tonight, a new program to track illegal aliens sparks a storm of protests from groups who believe it's all right to break American laws.
And Wal-Mart wants to bring big box banking to the United States. Congressman Barney Frank says that's not such a good idea and that middle-class Americans will be paying a high price. He's our guest.
And God bless the Supreme Court of the state of Florida. Today, they took a stand on school vouchers in support of public education.
We will have the story and a great deal more. Please join us -- all of that and more at 6:00 -- now back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Lou. We will be watching.
Still to come here in Jerusalem, details of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's medical condition -- we will talk about it live with the head of neurosurgery at Emory University.
And, coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, the former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright will join us in THE SITUATION ROOM. Among other things, I will ask her about the future of the peace process, in light of Prime Minister Sharon's condition.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We're in Jerusalem.
Ariel Sharon is in the hospital here. He's had a massive stroke, as you know, major surgery. We have been hearing a lot of medical terms.
To help us better understand what's going on, the battle that this man faces, we turn to Dr. Daniel Barrow of Emory University in Atlanta.
Dr. Barrow, thanks very much.
Based on everything you're hearing, can Ariel Sharon realistically recover?
DR. DANIEL BARROW, CHAIRMAN OF NEUROLOGICAL SURGERY, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Well, it's currently too early to say that with any degree of certainty.
And, obviously, I'm not taking care of Mr. Sharon and have not seen his images of his brain. But the word that is coming back to us, it certainly sounds like his condition is extremely poor. And many patients in his condition would not make a good recovery.
BLITZER: His doctors told us today that the surgery that was conducted over several hours to stop the bleeding in his brain largely was carried out on the right side of the brain. What does that mean?
BARROW: Well, in most human beings, in the overwhelming majority of us, the left side of the brain controls language function. So, all things equal, an injury to the right side of the brain is better tolerated. And patients can make better and more rewarding recoveries from injury to the right or non-dominant side of the brain. So, that would certainly be in his favor.
BLITZER: He suffered a minor stroke on December 18. And, as a result of that, they discovered a little hole in his heart.
But they also started to give him some blood-thinning drugs, which they now say complicated the bleeding that resulted in this massive stroke he suffered yesterday. With hindsight, was that the appropriate treatment? BARROW: I believe it was.
Again, based on what I understand, I presume that what he had is what's called an atrial septal defect, which is a small hole in the septum, or the wall between the two atria, the two collecting chambers of the heart. And patients with that condition are at higher risk of stroke.
The turbulence that is caused in the blood flow can cause clots that can travel to the brain. And the treatment for that is to give some type of blood thinner. I think -- my understanding is, they were eventually preparing to repair that hole endovascularly from inside the blood vessel, to perhaps reduce the need for blood thinners.
But it's always easy to second-guess after something like this happens. But using blood thinners in that situation is most appropriate.
BLITZER: He was supposed to go for that relatively minor procedure today, but, obviously, that was all moot as a result of the stroke that he suffered from yesterday.
What happens now? He's unconscious. He's in intensive care. What are they going to be doing? What are they looking at?
BARROW: What they're probably doing at the present time is trying to control his intracranial pressure.
You have to think of the skull as being kind of like a closed box that only has room for certain things. And, if you add something to that closed box, like a hemorrhage or the edema and swelling that will occur after that hemorrhage, the pressure will rise.
And, so, most of the attempts right now are to try to keep the pressure in the brain and in the intracranial cavity within a normal range, so that the brain that has not been injured by the hemorrhage isn't at risk of further injury. So, the ventilation to try to keep his carbon dioxide level down...
(CROSSTALK)
BARROW: ... the medications they're giving him to keep him in a drug-induced coma are all designed to lower the pressure in the intracranial cavity to protect the existing undamaged brain.
BLITZER: Well, we will see what happens. And we wish him only the best.
Dr. Barrow, thanks for your expertise -- Daniel Barrow of Emory University in Atlanta.
BARROW: My pleasure.
BLITZER: We're here in the Middle East, trying to get a first- hand look at the impact of Ariel Sharon's illness.
We are also getting some perspective from the Web. Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, is checking that situation online.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Rescue workers are combing through rubble of a six-story hotel that collapsed in Mecca, Saudi Arabia.
At least 20 people were killed, 59 others injured. Millions of people are gathering in the Muslim holy city for the annual hajj pilgrimage, which begins Sunday.
Less than four months ago, it looked like this. The crumpled Interstate 10 bridge across Louisiana's Lake Pontchartrain stood as a dramatic demonstration of the power of Hurricane Katrina. Today, Governor Kathleen Blanco was among those on hand to reopen the bridge. She announced, Washington will chip in $600 million for a new six-lane span that will eventually replace the existing bridge.
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger looks to begin rejuvenating his political support tonight when he delivers his third state of the state address. The governor is expected to reach out to Democrats with a proposal, a major public works bond, and more funding for schools. Schwarzenegger, of course, suffered major setbacks on a series of ballot initiatives this past November.
Low-cost airlines are making headlines this afternoon.
Our Ali Velshi live in New York with the "Bottom Line" -- Ali.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just about an hour away from Independence Air, which flies out of Dulles -- or uses Dulles as its hub -- comes to an end. The last flight for Independence Air will be leaving very shortly.
Now, this was the airline that was born out of Atlantic Coast Airlines. Or at least executives from the old Atlantic Coast Airlines decided to start a new airline and be a contract carrier for Delta and United. It didn't work out very well. The airline went under bankruptcy protection, deep, deep discount airline. It didn't work.
And they're coming to an end. Now, this is going to affect a lot of the cities that Independence flies into, because their fares were so low. And, typically what happens, John, is when a deep-discount airline comes into a city, the other bigger airlines match those fares.
Well, there's now, in some markets, no need to match those fares. Typically, the smaller airlines do well. But I -- here's an interesting measure of some of them. We have got the list of the on- time performance for November in the airlines. Hawaiian Airlines has done very well. They come in at 95 percent of arrivals on time, 89 percent of departures.
Independence Air comes in at number four. We have got U.S. Airways at number six, United at number nine. Let's look at the bottom half of that list, however. American Airlines is number 10, Continental, number 11. This is getting worse, by the way. These are less on time.
Then Delta, then Alaska, then Northwest -- Northwest, of course, the mechanics are on strike there, so it's going to impact that performance. JetBlue, the dead last, 73 percent of arrivals on time, 74 percent of arrivals on time at all other at all airports.
So, JetBlue, discount airline, not getting the planes in or out on time -- John.
KING: I have got a couple thousand points in the Independence Air fly club. They're all yours, Ali.
VELSHI: Yes, thanks.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Up next, what does Ariel Sharon's illness mean for the Middle East peace process? We have been getting reaction in the Middle East and here in Washington. Coming up, we will hear what you have to say.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: From Jerusalem, let's go right to New York.
That means Jack Cafferty standing by -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf.
Time for the "File." The question this hour is, how will Ariel Sharon's health affect the Middle East peace process?
Here is what some of you are saying.
Stephen in Ottawa, Ontario: "Unfortunately, Sharon is finished as a force in Israeli politics. The big question is, can his new party find a leader who can attract voters in the same numbers as Sharon? I think yes. And that person just might be Shimon Peres. Otherwise, it's left-wing oblivion under Labor or a right-wing meltdown under Netanyahu."
Richard in Greenlawn, New York: "The simple fact is that Palestinians consider Israel their land that was stolen from them and not a Jewish state. Even if Sharon could get out of bed right now, it would not make a lot of difference in the long run. Look what is happening in Gaza right now. There will never be any peace in that area of the world. Never."
Paula writes from Albuquerque, New Mexico: "Whether a leader has been especially good or especially bad, there's never any way of predicting what will follow him once he leaves office. It's a joy, though, to see Prime Minister Sharon evolve from a rigid, implacable force in Israel to a thoughtful and generous statesman. The world will miss his reason and maturity." Yasser in Toronto, Ontario, writes: "Sharon's death will have no impact on the peace process in the Middle East. Sharon was not a Sadat or Rabin. He helped occupy those territories, and now he is just playing politics."
And, finally, Toni in Byers, Texas: "I think the Middle East peace negotiations are in real danger if his replacement is not at least as moderate as he has become. Equally dangerous are Pat Robertson and his followers, who are given legitimate media attention to their inane rantings. A monastery isn't the place for Robertson. A home for the mentally ill is more appropriate."
That's all we have, Wolf, for right now from the -- this side of the pond in THE SITUATION ROOM.
You look well rested and did a nice job over there on pretty short notice. My compliments.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jack. Always good to have you. And you will be back here in THE SITUATION ROOM with all of us one hour from now.
We are going to have all the latest information on the condition of the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon. We are getting new information in all the time.
We will also speak with the former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright coming up, THE SITUATION ROOM, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, an hour or so from now.
In the meantime, I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting from Jerusalem.
Lou Dobbs getting ready to pick up all of our coverage -- Lou.
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
