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The Situation Room
New Mining Crisis in West Virginia; Messages from Al Qaeda; Update on Journalist Held Captive in Iraq; Former Iraq Hostage Speaks Out
Aired January 20, 2006 - 16:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: It's nearly 5:00 p.m. now in Washington, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where news and information from around the world arrive at one place at the same time.
Happening now, it's about 5:00 p.m. in West Virginia, where rescue experts and everyday people are hoping to avoid another tragic scene. There are more men trapped in another mine accident. This one's in Melville and time is critical.
Arson, alarm and eco-terror. Almost a dozen people are indicted for allegedly committing arson, carrying around destructive vices, and allegedly terrorizing the environment around the country.
And U.S. markets see a very bad day. Oil is up; stocks are down. What's happening? And should you be worried?
I'm John King, in for Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
In West Virginia, it's a race against time. But the state's governor says, "Time is not our friend."
Right now, rescue crews are desperately searching for two miners believed trapped inside a coal mine after an underground fire. In some ways, it's eerily similar to the mine disaster earlier this month that left 12 men dead. Today state officials described how they're conducting the search.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUG CONAWAY, WEST VIRGINIA MINE SAFETY CHIEF: What we're doing right now -- at least that was our effort -- we wanted to go to the area where they were last seen. That's a known for us. But that's why we're -- that's why we're concentrating in this area. But that doesn't prevent the fact that they -- you know, they may have traveled quite a great distance in this mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And for the latest now on this investigation and this search, we're joined by CNN National Correspondent Bob Franken. He's in Melville, West Virginia -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And John, they could have traveled a great distance. This is a very large mine, the Aracoma Mine in -- a part of the Logan County, which is about 60 miles from Charleston, West Virginia, across the state from the ill-fated Sago Mine. But the men could have traveled. They're hoping that they have found some air spaces inside the mine.
After they disappeared last night, almost 24 hours from (sic) now, there was a concentrated rescue effort that goes on. Crews rotate in, rescue crews. At any given time there are five in there, 25 to 30 people heavily equipped looking very hard.
They had to battle the fire that chased the people out in the first place. They've had to battle with smoke. And now that they have been successful with that, they're now looking in the various chambers that dot this mine. They're all over the place.
The mine goes from about a mile up that way, underneath us, all the way over there. And then about 100 yards up the road, we have the small church where the families and friends wait. And all they can do is, they hear from the governor of the state, is wait and hope -- John.
KING: A difficult wait. And Bob Franken, we'll check back with you if there are any developments throughout the next hour.
Thank you very much, Bob.
And turning now to the fate of the first female journalist kidnapped in Iraq, Jill Carroll's family is imploring her abductors to release her. And a prominent Sunni politician urges the kidnappers to free Carroll in the name of god.
Let's get more now from CNN's Michael Holmes. He's live in Baghdad -- Michael.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi to you, John.
That's right, a lot of praying, a lot of waiting going on at the moment as people ponder what's going on with Jill Carroll, being held captive by a group calling itself Brigade of Revenge.
Now, what's happened in the last little while, we have seen Jim Carroll, her father, appear on two Arab language television networks pleading for his release, saying, among other things, "Do not sacrifice an innocent soul."
You mentioned that Sunni politician. His name's Adnan al- Dulaimi. Now, it's significant that he appeared, too, to say release here. He said that she has defended Iraqis and condemned the war in Iraq.
He is the man that Jill was going to see to try to get an interview the day that she was kidnapped. She was, in fact, taken 300 meters from his office as she left the building.
Around the city, we have been out and talking to Iraqis from a Sunni sheik, to a Sunni imam at a mosque, to just ordinary people on the street. It's amazing the unanimous calls for her to be released. It's quite unprecedented in a hostage situation -- John.
KING: And Michael, this is a group with whom we are unfamiliar. Sop I assume it's very difficult to get not only any information about who they are and what their plans are, but simply any information at all about their motivations.
HOLMES: Yes, exactly right, John. And as you know, it's not the first time when someone's been taken hostage or perhaps an incident has occurred where you hear of a group that you've never heard from before. This is the case with Jill Carroll's group, Brigade of Revenge. Nobody's heard of them.
As far at least on a public level, the only communication with them was when the video of Jill was released and that statement a few days ago. But there are negotiations going on around the city. Not necessarily directly with the hostage-takers themselves. So there's still a lot of high hopes here -- John.
KING: Michael Holmes live for us in Baghdad.
Thank you very much, Michael.
And now to our CNN "Security Watch."
One day after we learned of a new terror tape from Osama bin Laden, there's another tape from bin Laden's right-hand man.
CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor.
David, what do we know about this tape from Ayman al-Zawahiri?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is, in a way, just a fragment, John. It's a fragment of audio of Ayman al-Zawahiri's voice, or purporting to be his that's been put up on Web sites on the Web.
On it, you hear the man purporting to be Zawahiri reading poetry about those killed fighting the Russians in Afghanistan year ago. It is -- there's no time references on this tape. It in no way suggests that it has been recorded since the attack of last week in which CIA airstrikes attempted to kill al-Zawahiri and may have killed a number of other senior al Qaeda figures.
So, counterterrorism officials who are looking at this tape are frankly not finding much significance in it at this point, though clearly somebody out there is trying to make people think that this is proof that Zawahiri is still alive. And he may well be. But as counterterrorism officials say, this is not the evidence.
KING: And David, this time yesterday, of course, the overwhelming focus was on the new audiotape from Osama bin Laden. With a bit more time to analyze it, any new nuggets from your sources?
ENSOR: Well, they're simply disagreeing -- there's a debate going on both in and out of the government, those who analyze these things, over whether -- whether bin Laden, by saying he now wants to have similar attacks to those in Europe take place in the United States, by whether by saying that he's lower his sights and is now willing to try to call for attacks, smaller attacks that might just kill dozens of people in subways, say, rather than the kind of thing that went on, on 9/11, when thousands were killed.
Some people think maybe they have lowered their sights, maybe they're desperate enough to do that. Others say, no, we have to worry about a serious attack in this country, that's still a possibility -- John.
KING: National Security Correspondent David Ensor.
David, thank you very much.
And now that Osama bin Laden has shown himself to be alive, is he well? And how well is the U.S. government doing in its effort to find him?
CNN Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre is here with more -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: John, the search for Osama bin Laden is a textbook example of how difficult it is to find an individual, especially when he's harbored by sympathetic supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): There were some people in the U.S. military who thought maybe Osama bin Laden might have died given that he hadn't been heard from in over a year. At the very least, senior Pentagon officials thought he was lying so low that he was reduced to being a symbolic leader of the al Qaeda terrorist network.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I suspect that, in any event, if he's alive and functioning, that he's probably spending a major fraction of his time trying to avoid being caught.
MCINTYRE: The new audiotape thought to have been recorded in December provides few clues to bin Laden's condition or location. The U.S. thinks the al Qaeda leader is still holed up in a lawless tribal region of Pakistan, avoiding too many trips into neighboring Afghanistan, where U.S. Special Forces commandos are waiting to take him dead or alive. But with no hard intelligence about his whereabouts, experts say the truth is bin Laden could be almost anywhere.
LT. COL. STEPHEN DONEHOO (RET.), U.S. ARMY: He certainly could be in Iran, he could be in parts of Baghdad that we wouldn't know about. I mean, there are places where he could be completely hidden. It took us a long time to find -- to find Saddam Hussein. It takes a long time to find these people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The manhunt for Osama bin Laden is not so much a physical search as an intelligence gathering exercise. And ultimately, the U.S. thinks it will get Osama bin Laden the same way it got Saddam Hussein, when someone who knows where he is gives him up -- John.
KING: They've been waiting for that tip for more than four years now.
Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.
Jamie, thank you very much.
And stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
Time now for "The Cafferty File." Our Jack Cafferty is in New York -- where else.
Hey, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How you doing, John?
Parents who pay that hefty college tuition bill may want to ask for their money back. Wait until you hear this.
More than half of the students at four-year colleges and at least 75 percent of the student at two-year colleges are not literate enough to handle complex tasks. This according to a new study.
Now, here's some of the things that a majority of today's college graduates in this country cannot do: interpret a table about exercise and blood pressure; understand the arguments of newspaper editorials; compare credit card offers with different interest rates and annual fees; or summarize survey results about parents' involvement in school.
It's pretty scary stuff.
If the United States wants the next generation to compete on a global scale, this ain't going to get it done.
Here's the question: Why aren't America's college students better prepared to compete in this world?
You can e-mail us at CaffertyFile@CNN.com.
That is truly frightening. You go through four years of college and can't understand comparison of credit card interest rates.
KING: My kids aren't quite ready for college yet, but dad's going to have a little chat with them.
CAFFERTY: Yes, I would think you'd have to get right after them and make sure that they're -- it's -- you know, by time they get to college, it's almost too late. The elementary schools don't get it done. The high schools don't get it done. The parents don't care if the schools are getting it done. We've taken to, you know, telling all these kids that they're wonderful little angelic things and that it doesn't matter whether they really know how to read or write because they're just good people.
KING: Education's our Jack Cafferty. We'll be back for the answers in a little bit.
Thank you, Jack.
And up ahead, oil stocks plunge. A very volatile day on the market affecting millions of people. Our Ali Velshi will show us what it's all about.
Also, they say they're friends of the Earth. The government says they're eco-terrorists. Details of new indictments.
And a wayward whale raising curiosity and concern. The animal is way off track. We'll show you where.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Indictments have been handed up against 11 people the government says waged a campaign of eco-terrorism in several western states.
Our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, is here with the details -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: John, the crimes took place in five separate states between 1996 and 2001. Now, the charges center around arson, using improvised incendiary devices made from milk jugs, petroleum products, even homemade timers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice over): As this sub-scale Colorado ski resort burned to the ground in 1998, the term "eco-terrorism" gained national attention. Now, nearly eight years later, 11 people are finally facing charges for that crime, and 16 others, all alleged members of the Earth or Animal Liberation Fronts.
ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: A group of defendants who refer to themselves as "The Family" work together with extensive planning to influence the conduct of government and private businesses through the use of coordinated force, violence, sabotage.
ARENA: Officials describe the group as a domestic terror cell. It includes an Oregon volunteer firefighter.
Eight are in custody, three are fugitives believed to be overseas. They are accused of crimes in five states dating back to 1996. All told, they allegedly caused as much as $80 million in property damage.
ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: Terrorism is terrorism no matter what the motive. The FBI is committed to protecting Americans from crime and terrorism, including acts of domestic terrorism in the name of animal rights or the environment.
ARENA: Both ELF and ALF are notoriously secretive. Sources say the government's success in bringing charges hinged on a key informant and insider.
Camille Hankins publishes ALF communiques.
CAMILLE HANKINS, NORTH AMERICAN ANIMAL LIBERATION: Activists are being rounded up and bullied, harassed and intimidated by the -- by the authorities. And you really can't rely on that information.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: CNN called several attorneys for the defense, but we didn't get any calls back. While officials consider the indictment a step forward, the extreme movement is very much in tact. The groups have claimed responsibility for more than 1,200 attacks -- John.
KING: Wow. Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena.
Thank you very much.
And coming up, little good about this Friday on Wall Street. Ali Velshi will show us what's happen and why.
Plus, a surprise new attraction in London drawing lots of attention and concern. We'll update you on this wayward whale.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Oil is up while both the Dow and Nasdaq suffered their biggest one-day point losses in more than three years.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
KING: And our Zain Verjee now joins us from the CNN Center in Atlanta, hopefully with no umbrella with a closer look at other stories making news
Hi, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, John. No umbrella.
He went to prison for knowing about the Oklahoma City bombing plot and not warning anyone, but now Michael Fortier is a free man. His attorney says that he was released today. Fortier was sentenced to 12 years in return for testifying in the trials of bombing co- conspirators Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. Fortier was released a year early for good behavior.
One hundred and sixty-eight people died in the April 1995 bombing.
A California man who was videotaped shooting a lawyer outside a courthouse three years ago has been convicted of attempted murder. William Strier could get life in prison when he's sentenced next month. The 2002 shooting of attorney Gerald Curry was captured by TV cameras covering the murder trial of actor Robert Blake.
Curry survived being shot four times. Strier was reportedly enraged about the management of a trust fund.
A Pennsylvania medical examiner who consulted in the deaths of Elvis Presley and Laci Peterson has been indicted. Dr. Cyril Wecht is accused of using Allegheny County employees to run his errands and do work for his private practice. The 84-count federal indictment also charges that he sent unclaimed bodies from the county coroner's office to a Pittsburgh university in return of his private use of a lab there.
Wecht denies any wrongdoing.
And John, it's a whale of a tale. The Thames in London has an unexpected visitor, a lost whale. The Northern Bottlenose Whale made its way past Big Ben and parliament as hundreds of people went down to the Thames and looked on, on a cold London day.
Witnesses say it's about 20 feet long. They're actually quite worried, though, that it's sick or somewhat disoriented. Such whales are usually found in the North Atlantic.
Boats, though, are being used to try to keep the whale from breaching itself. And they kind of lost track of it, John, after sunset. So that was the last word. But the last sighting of a whale like this was back in 1913.
KING: That's a long time ago.
VERJEE: Yes.
KING: Zain Verjee, thank you very much.
And coming up, the White House goes on the offensive over domestic spying. Wolf talks about that controversy and much more with the Democratic party chairman, Howard Dean, ahead.
Also, coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, police groups and lawmakers tried to prevent its release, but some say this video game is no worse than others. We'll show you the big controversy over "25 to Life."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The White House has been taking heat for weeks over revelations President Bush authorized domestic wiretaps without a warrant. Now administration officials are going on the offensive.
Next week, Mr. Bush will visit the headquarters of the National Security Agency which is conducting that eavesdropping on U.S. citizens suspected of ties to terror. And today, top adviser and deputy White House chief of staff, Karl Rove, defended the program in a speech to members of the Republican National Committee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARL ROVE, WHITE HOUSE DEP. CHIEF OF STAFF: The purpose of the NSA surveillance is to protect American lives. And the president's actions are both legal and fully consistent with the Fourth Amendment and the protection of civil liberties.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Rove went on the say the president believes, "If al Qaeda is calling somebody in America, it is in our national security interest to know who."
Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean has called the president's domestic spying program an unacceptable abuse of power. The DNC chairman spoke with Wolf yesterday about the wiretap controversy, the newly-released Osama bin Laden audiotape, and the politics of the war on terror.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Governor Dean, thanks very much for joining us.
HOWARD DEAN, DNC CHAIRMAN: Thanks for having me on.
BLITZER: Let's talk about Osama bin Laden. We now have a new audiotape from the al Qaeda leader. He makes some specific, direct threats against the United States, says they're planning another attack right here in the United States.
To a lot of Americans, this will justify the extraordinary measures the president has authorized, including those warrantless wiretaps.
Do they?
DEAN: No. The warrantless wiretaps are totally unnecessary. In fact, you can go listen in on any conversation you want. If you think it's an emergency, you can get a warrant after the fact. The president just broke the law for reasons that are not clear to me, because this doesn't have anything to do with this national security.
There is some good news in this -- in this al Qaeda tape. I think it shows some weakness on their part.
I think -- I was delighted that we managed to apparently eliminate four or five members of al Qaeda high-ranking people in this past week. I think the president is beginning to focus, or at least the armed forces are focusing where the war on terror needs to be fought, which is the elimination of al Qaeda and their leaders.
And so despite the fact that Osama is still alive after four years, at least we're beginning to have a pretty significant impact on his organization. BLITZER: So you don't have a problem with the targeted killings of these al Qaeda leaders?
DEAN: Absolutely not. We're in a war on terror. These are the terrorists.
You know, as you know, I think Iraq has been a terrible misadventure, because that was not about terrorism. This is about terrorism. And I think that everybody agrees that Afghanistan was the seat of the organization that killed 3,000 Americans.
I think the targeted killings are exactly what we should be doing, and I'm delighted they've been successful.
BLITZER: Including Osama bin Laden? If the U.S. had good intelligence where he was, would you support taking him out?
DEAN: Yes, absolutely.
BLITZER: All right.
DEAN: Look, these folks are terrorists. You take -- get rid of terrorists where you can.
Obviously, we want to minimize, if not entirely eliminate, any civilian casualties. It's a terrible tragedy that there were men, women and children who were innocent killed in our attack. But if you want to be free of attack, then don't harbor terrorists.
BLITZER: The last time we heard from Osama bin Laden was just before the presidential election in November 2004. Some believe that that tape then, that videotape, sort of pushed -- may have helped push Bush over the top because it underscored he was strong on national security, Democrats were weak on national security.
What will be the political fallout, if any, from this current audiotape?
DEAN: You know, I think the president has been weak on national security all along. He got us into Iraq when our resources should have been devoted to getting rid of Osama bin Laden and his top people.
The bad news for the country is that these folks are still alive four years later in the face of the most powerful country on the face of the Earth. We have -- the president dropped the ball on national security. There's enormous numbers of things that he has not done that he should have, because he's done a lot of things that he shouldn't have.
And I think a lot of this has to do with the culture of corruption and his own political problems.
But at least we can say that, in the last six days, that we have scored some victories in Afghanistan and in northeastern Pakistan against the organization that killed 3,000 Americans. And I think that's a very positive thing.
BLITZER: I know you agree with Al Gore, the former vice president. Listen to what he said the other day. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What we do know about this pervasive wiretapping virtually compels the conclusion that the president of the United States has been breaking the law, repeatedly and insistently.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: If -- if you believe that, what's the remedy? What should be the punishment be? And I -- I refer specifically to impeachment. Would you believe -- do you believe impeachment is justified?
DEAN: Well, actually, interestingly enough, regardless of what I believe, 52 percent of Americans apparently believe that, if the president broke the law, that should be the remedy.
I -- what I think is -- and I don't have anything to say about this -- I'm not a member of Congress or the Senate. But I think the president -- president, at minimum, should come clean with the American people. There was no reason for doing what he did.
He keeps claiming this is a security initiative. It's not. You could tap the phone of any American today if you believed it was an emergency and it had something to do with terrorism, and then go and get the warrant after the fact.
The president deliberately broke the law. There was no reason for this. Let's have a nation of laws. Let's defend the Constitution of the United States. We all understand you have to take extraordinary measures and defend America. The law was deliberately crafted so you could do so. And I think the president ought to obey the law.
You don't have to believe the Democrats. Look at the -- the -- the nonpartisan organizations, like Congressional Research Service. They have concluded the president broke the law. Let's have a president who will abide by the law. This is not just about this wiretapping. This is the arrogance of power. This is the corruption scandals that are going through the Republican Party, both at the statehouse level and the -- and the Capitol level, and the White House itself, the vice president's office.
The arrogance of power leads to corruption. Do not break the law, Mr. President. It's not just about wiretapping. You could have done that anyway. It's about the messages you send to our children about growing up in America, what it means to be an American, and whether you're willing to defend the laws of the United States of America. BLITZER: By almost all accounts, Samuel Alito's about to be confirmed as the next associate justice in the Supreme Court.
Dale Bumpers, a former Democratic senator from Arkansas, was quoted in "The New York Times" the other day as saying: "You're trying to convince the American people that this man," Alito, "is not on your side. Obviously, we didn't do a very good job."
Do you take responsibility for the apparent failure to block this nomination?
DEAN: Well, it has not been blocked. I mean, and we don't know if it's going to be blocked or not, as of yet. I think it should be blocked.
I don't think Sam Alito represents where most Americans are on most issues. I don't think most Americans want government intrusion into their personal lives. I don't believe that his views on sexual harassment in the workplace and all-white juries are what is compatible with where most Americans are. So, I hope that the Senate will block this nomination. And I think they should.
BLITZER: We are almost out of time. But I have to ask you this question, since it's exactly two years since your famous scream, which you remember very, very well. You often think about that?
DEAN: I actually don't often think about it. It was -- you know, it was a lot of fun.
You know as well as I do that that was mostly the cable stations that did it. And it was fun. And I -- you know, the truth is, I probably wouldn't do it exactly the same way today. But I think upbeat enthusiasm is not always bad.
BLITZER: Well, wait a minute. You say the cable nation -- the cable stations did it. We didn't scream. We just replayed it a lot of times.
DEAN: Yes. But the truth is, none of the reporters thought it was very unusual.
They had seen that speech before. And the version on cable stations, as you well know, and as ABC News and Diane Sawyer reported later, was that, in fact, you cut out all the crowd noise, that you could only hear me on the stuff. And it was -- you had a lot of fun with it. And it was a fun time. But that's done with. And now we have got to move on and make sure that this country goes back to the Democratic Party, where it belongs.
BLITZER: All right. We will move on.
Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic Party, thanks very much for joining us.
DEAN: Thanks, Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Still to come, search and seizure. The government wants to use Google to search for clues to online pornography. But it's not just searching Google's Web site. Instead, it wants to search Google's databases.
And coming up in our 7:00 p.m. hour, police hope art doesn't imitate life. A new video game called "25 to Life" allows criminals to kill cops. That has many police groups outraged. We will tell you about that in our 7:00 p.m. hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: It was a nightmare that lasted 444 days for the both country and the 52 Americans held in what came to be called the Iran hostage crisis. It ended 25 years ago today, when the hostages were finally freed, just hours after Ronald Reagan was sworn in as president.
Bruce Laingen was among the hostages. He was the charge d'affaires at the U.S. Embassy when it was stormed by militant students, making him the highest ranking of the 52 captives.
Bruce Laingen joins us now in THE SITUATION ROOM. On this day, 25 years ago, you were released. On this day, America is wondering about the fate of a journalist held captive, we could call it hostage, in Iraq, just one, not 52. But we know very little about how -- Jill Carroll's situation. Tell us what it is like.
BRUCE LAINGEN, FORMER HOSTAGE IN IRAN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
LAINGEN: Hell for her, worse for her families, the agony, the uncertainty. It must be terribly difficult, much worse than our situation.
KING: Why much worse?
LAINGEN: Because this is a single person, everything focused on her and her family. And we have got a more violent situation in Iraq.
KING: Right.
LAINGEN: Iran was relative -- no, I won't say that.
(LAUGHTER)
LAINGEN: Easy compared to Iraq today.
KING: Well, I assume hindsight plays into that a little bit more. But -- but we don't -- we know nothing about her condition, whether she can get up and even walk around a room to keep herself busy. But take us inside your captivity. And if she has any ability to move around, what would you recommend? What did you do?
(LAUGHTER)
LAINGEN: Pray. Nothing wrong with that. That helps a lot. I can assure you that a dialogue with the ultimate psychiatrist helps a lot.
I would tell her to, above all, be patient, be as strong as she can be. Patience is a bitter cup that only the strong can drink. That's not my phrase, but it's a famous one. We all need to be a little patient about all of this, because we are not controlling things. The military in Iraq that we have has some capacity to reach her, to reach those who are holding her. But, beyond that, the rest of us have to wait.
KING: Tell us about your conversations with your captors. And would you recommend that she try that?
LAINGEN: Of course. I have no problem -- I don't agree with negotiations with terrorists. But, of course you want to talk. The more you talk, the more time you're using up, using up their time. By all means, get engaged in a dialogue with them.
KING: I want your unique perspective. You were held hostage in Iran. Twenty-five years later, if you turn on the TV news, you're not seeing the ayatollah, but you are seeing a new president of Iran talking about wiping Israel off the map, talking about his right to have a nuclear program that the United States and many its allies -- many of its allies believe is a nuclear weapons program. What goes through your mind as you watch this development?
LAINGEN: Iran is losing ground.
We have got another -- we have got, in effect, the grandson of Khomeini, if you will, in effect, believing that he represents the essence of the revolution that was off track for the last 20 years -- 25 years, perhaps.
I have very little patience with him. I don't have any patience with anyone who engages in that kind of language. If anything is needed at this point, it's some reduction in the rhetoric. Talk a little less. Act a little more. We should be engaged in a dialogue with Iran today, quietly, behind the scenes. That's..
KING: Despite this man's rhetoric?
LAINGEN: Yes, of course. He's in power. He's the president.
(CROSSTALK)
LAINGEN: You have to engage in what's there.
KING: I understand -- I believe it was just last night. It's 25 years now from the day you were released, you and your fellow hostages were released. I understand you got together last night.
(CROSSTALK)
LAINGEN: We had 18 of us. That's the most we have been together for a long time. It was a great evening.
We were all reminded of what we have accomplished, if you will, but what we have gained as human beings. We're all stronger from that situation. We know a lot more about ourselves. We know a lot more about people in this country who embraced us so totally at that time. No issue has -- well, few issues have -- reunite this country the way that did.
You have to say, I mean, World War II, yes, the country was united. Vietnam, no. That crisis in 1981, '79, '81, had everybody engaged. You're too young, perhaps, John.
KING: I remember...
(CROSSTALK)
LAINGEN: But a lot of people remember today, and a lot of people who helped us at that time.
There's a big story in "The Washington Post" today about this lifetime baseball card, which is great. But everybody was reaching out to us, not least an organization called No Greater Love, an expression that everyone would recognize, I think. No greater love have I than that.
That organization, then and still today, reaches out to Americans in trouble, in distress, not least with the yellow ribbon.
KING: Let me ask you, lastly, to reflect on the changes in the country 25 years later. The hostage crisis brought about the birth of "Nightline" on ABC.
LAINGEN: Sure, Ted Koppel.
KING: CNN -- CNN, other cable outlets, are all, since that day...
LAINGEN: Yes.
KING: ... are we in a better place when it comes to communicating about world issues like this, or have we gotten to the point where we don't spend enough time on them?
LAINGEN: No, the more communication, the more of that kind of thing, the better. After all, organizations in the Middle East today are establishing a CNN. Al-Jazeera has a CNN-type mechanism network.
KING: For better or worse.
LAINGEN: For better or worse, that's correct.
No, I'm -- I remember Ted Koppel, of course. And we gave birth to him. He honored us on the fifth anniversary of his program. We haven't heard much from his since, but we like Ted Koppel.
KING: Well, we honor you on the 25th anniversary... LAINGEN: Thank you.
KING: ... of your release, sir.
LAINGEN: Thank you, John.
KING: It's a pleasure.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Thank you very much. Take care, sir.
And now to another story involving hostages and hostage-taking, this one happening now.
Our Zain Verjee joins us from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a look at that story from around the world.
VERJEE: John, there are fresh demands from a group of Nigerian rebels holding four oil workers hostage. They're calling for a $1 billion payment from a major oil company, as well as the release of two of their leaders.
Meanwhile, the family of the American hostage has received word that the man is sick and could die in captivity.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): Dwight Landry's father, Patrick Landry, is being held hostage in Nigeria. The son says his father suffers from high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and has had a stroke in the past.
DWIGHT LANDRY, SON OF U.S. HOSTAGE IN NIGERIA: We really fear for our -- for our dad's life. You know, we really think he's in a very grave situation right now.
VERJEE: Patrick Landry works for an American company that uses boats to ferry food and supplies to oil rigs for the Shell Oil Company.
On January the 11th, Landry was commanding one of those vessels off the coast of Nigeria, when armed Nigerian rebels came aboard and kidnapped him and three co-workers.
The Reuters News Agency reported on Thursday that the kidnappers telephoned, saying Patrick Landry is gravely ill and that, if he dies, they will kill the other three hostages. The kidnappers let their captives speak. One identified himself as Patrick Landry.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are bad shape out here. We really are. You need to -- you need to get over to the American Embassy, somebody, and get it (INAUDIBLE) try to get this resolved.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VERJEE: Another identified himself as a Honduran named Harry Ebanks (ph).
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, help us. Help us, somebody.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VERJEE: An e-mail today, apparently from the group, demanded $1.5 billion from the Shell Oil Company. They say it's not a ransom, but will be used as compensation for poor villages in the oil heartland the rebel group says are polluted from a Shell oil spill.
Yet, the group says the payment will not stop them from attacking other oil companies operating in their region. Meanwhile, Patrick Landry's son says his father is an innocent victim.
LANDRY: My dad's just, you know, a regular guy, trying to work hard, trying to make a living, just like everybody else, and that he has nothing to do with what's going on, you know, in -- in their region.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERJEE: And John, today, oil unions in the region threatened to leave Nigeria's Delta if their safety is not guaranteed.
Meanwhile, Patrick Landry's family members say that they have turned to his employers, as well as the U.S. State Department, for help in winning the man's release -- John.
KING: And we wish them the best of luck.
Zain Verjee in Atlanta -- thank you very much, Zain.
And, up next, our CNN "Security Watch" -- efforts to ease security delays for frequent travelers. We will show you what is involved.
And coming up on our 7:00. p.m. Eastern hour, critics take aim at a beloved New York City tradition -- details of the horse-drawn carriage controversy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Lou Dobbs is getting ready for his show, about 12 minutes away, at the top of the hour.
Lou, give us an up -- preview.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, John.
Coming up at 6:00 Eastern here on CNN, we will have, of course, all the day's latest news. Also tonight, not only is the Bush administration allowing millions of illegal aliens to cross our border; they don't even think it's a big deal when the Mexican military crosses it as well. But, tonight, we have videotape evidence of those incursions.
This is the only program with correspondents on the front line of the war against the middle class. Tonight, we will have a special report showing how your elected officials have treated working Americans over the past year and their assaults on our middle class.
Those stories and a lot more coming up in just a matter of moments. We hope you will join us -- John, back to you.
KING: Thank you very much, Lou. We will be watching.
And in our CNN "Security Watch," your wait at the airport could get shorter. But you will first have to go through a background check, which could include private details, like your credit history. It's part of a new plan announced by the Transportation Security Administration.
And, for more, CNN's homeland security correspondent, Jeanne Meserve, joins us -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: John, the idea of registered traveler program is that travelers who are willing to be fingerprinted, pay a fee, and submit to a background check will get through airport security more quickly. But the details are still being worked out.
Though the TSA has done pilot programs, like one in Orlando, Florida, it now says private companies will run the program and do the background checks that could involve sifting through private records, like credit card and bank data.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM SPARAPANI, AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION: There's a well- protected, constitutionally acknowledged, Supreme Court-ratified right to travel. And it could be in danger here, because we're giving private companies the ability to say who is and who is not capable of traveling on our -- in our airplanes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MESERVE: Those who qualify as registered travelers might be able to keep on their shoes or leave their laptops in a case when going through security.
The TSA acknowledges, terrorists could sign up and exploit the system. So, even program participants will be subject to random secondly searches. The travel industry argues, the program will cut screening times for everyone, but critics fear it could reduce the number of lanes for travelers who are not signed up and make wait times for them even longer -- John.
KING: Jeanne Meserve, thank you very much.
And stay tuned to CNN, of course, day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
Now an update on a story we have been following. To protect children from online pornography, the government argues it needs reams of information from some of the largest online search engines. Google has refused to comply. But other search engines have cooperated with government requests.
Our Jacki Schechner has more -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: John, Google says that what the government is asking for is overreaching, and they're going vigorously defy the motion to compel and fight against it.
The Department of Justice, on the other hand, says, well, your competitors have complied. Why don't you? Well, that's only kind of true. We spoke to Google's top competitors today. By the way, Google has 46 percent of the online search engine market. That is by far above the -- the top search engine.
But we spoke to these companies. Here is what they told us. Yahoo! told us that they did comply on a limited basis, didn't give over anything that had any -- any personal identifiers on -- in it, and they didn't consider it a privacy issue.
Microsoft Network told us they did give some search terms that people had used. But, again, there was no identifiers attached to any of that. And AOL, which is owned by Time Warner, like CNN, it told us that they did give the government what search terms were used over a few days period. But, again, all of that was anonymous.
The reason why the government wants this information is, it's trying to build a case to wrap up the Child Online Protection Act. This was deemed unconstitutional in 2004. They want to make a case for this again -- John.
KING: Jacki Schechner, thank you very much.
We want to show you now some new video just in on our top story. In West Virginia, rescue crews are searching for two men believed to be trapped in a mine. The video shows the entrance to the Aracoma Alma mine number one. The missing miners were separated from their crew after an underground fire yesterday. Moments ago, officials in West Virginia held a news conference on the status of the search for the two men.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUG CONAWAY, WEST VIRGINIA MINE SAFETY CHIEF: We found that. And what we're doing now is, we're working our way back.
You got to understand, we are only traveling one entry up. That's all you see. And, as you come back, you need to tie across and check all those entries. And we have encountered pretty heavy smoke. We had teams that are on a lifeline. They attached themselves together. Visibility is very poor. And they're in smoke. So, they attached themselves to a lifeline, so they can walk together and not lose anybody. So, it's -- it's very poor visibility. And it's -- it's -- it's pretty tough going here, as far as the search.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: That update a short time ago in West Virginia -- officials, of course, hoping to avoid another mine tragedy like one that killed 12 men earlier this month.
Up next, your answers to our question of the hour: Why aren't American college students better prepared? Jack Cafferty's standing by with your e-mail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Our Jack Cafferty has been speaking truth during the break. And he's back now from New York with "The Cafferty File."
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Hey, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Yes. It's too bad we the share that conversation.
More than half the graduates at four -- graduates, we are talking about, at four-year colleges, 75 percent of the graduates at two-year colleges, unable, not literate enough, to handle complex tasks, according to a new study just completed.
The question we're pondering is, why aren't America's college students better prepared upon graduation?
Karen writes from Idaho Falls, Idaho: "Most college students don't appreciate the value of an education. They feel it is owed to them. They used their four years, or longer, to party and have fun. If they do any research, the computer finds the information, writes the paper, and makes the corrections. And, when they graduate, their heads are as empty as when they arrived."
Steve in Presque -- Presque Isle, Maine, I think is how you say it, Steve: "We are now experiencing the children of parents who went to school during the 'feel-good' '70s and '80s. And they want their children to be as ignorant as they are."
Chris in Coplay, Pennsylvania: "We seem to have moved away from true academics and more into credentialization, by which I mean it is better to have the piece of paper than the knowledge certified therein. And, as long as we teach two tests, rather than four tests, this problem will continue."
Cheryl in Glen Cove, New York: "Look at the role models for our kids today. I'm a mother of two second-graders. It's hard to point to positive role models. We put people like the Hilton sisters and all those reality shows on television for our kids to watch. That only teaches them they don't need to know anything. We accept the lowest common denominator in our society as the top. What do you expect to happen when that is the case?"
Jim in Columbia, Tennessee: "Jack, Jack, lighten up a little. The adults said the same thing about you." I'm sure they did. "There will always be those that take care of business and move the country forward."
And, finally, we get this: "Could you repeat the question? I don't understand" -- signed "A Third-Year College Student"
(LAUGHTER)
KING: You missed it, Jack. I had Noah (ph) and Hanna (ph) King right here in THE SITUATION ROOM a little bit earlier today. I'm supposed to take them to a basketball game. I sent them off to do some homework.
CAFFERTY: Really? You're a tough guy.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: I am sometimes. Not enough.
CAFFERTY: The only reason you did that is because you had to work tonight, instead of going to the game yourself.
KING: We are going to go late. It's a secret, though.
CAFFERTY: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Thank you, Jack.
And here's your chance to help NASA scientists from the comfort of your home. You don't even need a science degree. With the Stardust spacecraft safely back to Earth, now comes the major task of culling through all that space dust.
Do you have the right stuff? If so, our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, right now is going to point you in the right direction -- Jacki.
SCHECHNER: John, you do not have to be a NASA scientist to get in a little science online. Take a look at this.
The Stardust came back with interplanetary stardust, basically dust from stars outside our solar system. And all you have to do is go online to this Web site and sign up to help them identify it. We have never seen anything like this before. And what happened was, dust got in this gel. And they're going to make 1.6 million little movies out of this. They want people at home to identify when the dust hits the gel and makes a track.
Two out of four people identify it. It then gets sent on to 20 or 30 more people. They identify the same thing. It gets moved on. And the cool part is, the first two people to discover it get to name the dust. This is a very cool thing. You don't have to have a science degree. It takes about five to 10 minutes to get prepared for this, John. That's all you have got to do. There's no time commitment. Sign up and get involved.
KING: I will pass on that one, Jacki.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: We are done here. But we will be back in an hour right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
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