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The Situation Room
Hearings Begin On Domestic Spying Program; Bush Administration Sends Budget Proposal to Congress; First Day of Moussaoui Trial; Republicans Accuse Hillary Clinton; Interview with Josh Bolten
Aired February 06, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Ali. To our viewers you are in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information from around the world arriving all the time. Happening now it's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington where domestic spying comes under Congressional scrutiny. The attorney general calls it necessary and lawful, but gets a grilling from some skeptical Senators.
President Bush offers a budget that boosts spending for National Security. But how badly will it squeeze the poor and the elderly?
And Hillary Clinton's been slamming the Bush administration. Now Republicans are slamming Hillary. Is this a preemptive strike before the presidential campaign? I'm Wolf Blitzer, you are in THE SITUATION ROOM.
We begin with our "CNN Security Watch," as Congress keeps a close watch on the president's domestic spying program. The Senate Judiciary Committee opened explosive hearings on the NSA eavesdropping program today.
Critics were quick to open fire, saying wiretaps without court orders violate federal law. But Attorney General Alberto Gonzales called on Congress to keep its hands off. Let's go live to our Congressional Correspondent Ed Henry, he has the latest from Capitol Hill. Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the attorney general came out swinging saying this program is legal and does protect civil liberties. He also lashed out at critics saying they are misinformed about the program and could be aiding terrorists.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Our enemy is listening. And I can not help but wonder if they aren't shaking their heads in amazement at the thought that anyone would imperil such a sensitive program by leaking its existence in the first place.
HENRY (voice-over): Democrats insist they want to give the president every tool to fight the war. But question the legal justifications for the surveillance program.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY, (D) VERMONT: Mr. Attorney General, in America, our America, nobody is above the law. Not even the president of the United States. As much that we did not know about the president's secret spying program, I hope we are going to get some more answers. Some real answers. Not self-serving characterizations.
HENRY: The attorney general also faced tough questions from Republicans about executive power.
SEN. LINDSAY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: If you take your inherent authority argument too far then I am really concerned there is no check and balance.
HENRY: Republican Arlen Specter called for the administration to get a special court to review the legality. But the attorney general was non-committal.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER, (R) PENNSYLVANIA: As a matter of public confidence, why not take it to the FISA court? What do you have to lose if you are right?
GONZALES: What I can say, Senator, is that we are continually looking at ways that we can work with the FISA court in being more efficient.
HENRY: But other Republicans sharply defended the program.
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS, (R) ALABAMA: We are not going hog wild restraining American liberties. In fact the trend has been to provide more and more protections. And there can be a danger that we go too far in that. And allow sleeper cells in this country to operate.
HENRY: Democrats pressed Gonzales about his confirmation hearings in which he vowed to inform Congress if the president authorized an action in defiance of a criminal statute.
SEN. DICK DURBIN, (D), ILLINOIS: You let a misleading statement about one of the central issues of your confirmation.
GONZALES: What I said was the truth then. It is the truth today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: The grilling will continue in the room behind me for at least another hour tonight and then the committee plans to bring the attorney general back for another day. Not tomorrow but possibly next week.
BLITZER: All right, Ed. Thank you very much. Ed Henry reporting for us from Capitol Hill.
Is the Bush administration balancing on a high wire with its wiretap program? What will the political fall-out be this November? Let's turn to our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, for the president it is fairly easy. He stays on his argument that he did within the law what he can do, everything he can do, to help protect Americans. For Democrats, warrantless wiretaps fit neatly into their election year story line. The tale of a president and a party that has abused its power.
Still it's a difficult chapter for them to write.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CROWLEY (voice-over): First a preface about what this story is not about.
SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN, (D) CALIFORNIA: This hearing isn't about whether our nation should aggressively combat terrorism. I think we all agree on that.
CROWLEY: Since the late '60s and the birth of the anti-war movement inside their party, Democrats have tried to get out from under the soft on defense label. The image problem haunts them still in another era shaped by war. It is why Democrats who say they are playing offense sound so defensive.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: We all want to have the strongest national security.
CROWLEY: So far the debate itself, laced with legal jargon, has failed to set fire in the grass roots. Though the liberal group Move On is trying to strike a match with a provocative but limited run ad.
RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The president that means it is not illegal.
ANNOUNCER: We put a law in place to protect innocent Americans, allowing the president to wiretap for national security but requiring court approval within days.
CROWLEY: For now your average street conversation shows more confusion than conviction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They could put a little more information out there that would make me feel that, I could probably go along with it eventually.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For me, don't violate my rights. But help me to understand where the middle is in what's unsafe and what type of cut-off there should be.
CROWLEY: Evenly divided on whether the wiretaps were right or wrong, the vast majority of Americans tell pollsters they are not worried the government will wiretap their calls.
SEN. DICK DURBIN, (D) ILLINOIS: Usually it's only when we reflect on something that's been done during the course of a war, like Japanese internment camps or the enemy's list of Richard Nixon. When we reflect on these things we think, wait a minute, that isn't what America's all about.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (on camera): In the end, Democrats are working the issue in a confined space acknowledging that the wire taps were probably needed, while arguing that exiting those same wiretaps without approval represents a clear and present danger to civil liberties.
BLITZER: All right Candy, thank you very much. Candy Crowley reporting. Legal experts weighing in on today's surveillance hearings and they are doing so online. Our Internet Reporter Jacki Schechner has more.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, we have access to some of the greatest legal minds in this country via the Internet right now. We'll give you some examples of where you can take a look at the debate going on. First, the faculty blog from the University of Chicago. This is a Constitutional law professor, Jeff Stone, who is talking about the NSA wiretapping. He says that he thinks this is probably unlawful and probably unconstitutional. What will come of the hearings the short term for him. He says legislation. That's what he's going to get out of this.
As for the private lawsuits that come out of this. A whole lot of nothing is what he's saying. You can go to The Volokh Conspiracy. Another good law blog. It's Warren Kerr (ph) talking about inherent authority, one of the terms you'll hear in and out. We wanted to show you also that this is being web cast from the Senate judiciary committee.
Here's a look at what that looks like. You can take a look at it as it streams. You can watch the news reports throughout the day and as this comes in the next few days. You can check it out online as well.
BLITZER: Jacki Schechner thank you very much our Internet reporter. Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
President Bush sent his budget plan to Congress today. It boosts military and homeland security sending but it slowed spending on programs for the poor and the elderly which the White House calls those programs it wants to cut, inefficient.
The president's budget also seeks to make his earlier approved tax cuts permanent yet aims to try to make a dent in the huge record budget deficit. Let's go live to our White House Correspondent Dana Bash. She has more details.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this book here is just one of four. This is just the summary of the massive budget that the president sent to Congress today. And like any budget it's not just about numbers. It's about the president's political priorities, especially in an election year.
Now Democrats today called those priorities misplaced and even some Republicans say government spending is still far too big.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): President Bush delivered a budget he says focuses on his top priority, Republicans still call their best political asset, national security.
The Pentagon is the biggest winner in the $2.77 trillion Bush budget up about seven percent from the last year. To fund the fight on terrorism The Department of Homeland Security would get a nearly eight percent increase. And there's a sober reminder the Iraq war price tag is far bigger than Bush officials ever anticipated, $120 billion more for Iraq and Afghanistan on top of $250 billion already spent in Iraq.
JOSH BOLTEN, WHITE HOUSE BUDGET DIRECTOR: The cost of the war are what they are. It's been a very expensive undertaking and essential undertaking.
BASH: Escalating war spending means this year's deficit will explode again up to a record $423 billion, a figure the White House calls unwelcome but also blames on an unexpected $100 billion price tag for hurricane relief.
To rein in government spending that has rank-and-file Republicans furious, Mr. Bush proposes as $36 billion cut in Medicare over five years. And saving $15 billion in eliminating or slashing 141 government programs from community policing to drug free school zones.
But last year he vowed to cut 154 programs. Congress cut only 89. And some conservatives say the election year Bush blueprint still allows too much red ink.
REP. JEFF FLAKE, (R) ARIZONA: The consequences are devastating for Republicans. We are the party of a limited government or so we say. And if we can't deliver on that. I think we're history.
BASH: The budget would make the first term Bush tax cuts permanent at a ten year cost of $1.4 trillion, money Democrats say could better be spent on Medicare and other needs now. Or use to shrink the deficit tab down the road.
SEN. KENT CONRAD (D), NORTH DAKOTA: This will be a legacy of deficits and debt that this president will leave behind.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now despite that higher-than-expected deficit projection, Wolf, the White House today still insisted that they will meet their mark -- meet their goal of cutting that deficit in half by the time Mr. Bush leaves office.
BLITZER: Dana Bash at the White House, thanks very much. And this note -- coming up at the bottom of the hour, I'll speak live with the man behind this budget plan, the White House budget director Josh Bolten. He'll be here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Former President Ronald Reagan would have been 95-years-old today. Or as he would have said, the 66th anniversary of his 29th birthday. Like the Bush budget, Reagan's spending plan of some 20 years ago moved money from domestic programs to defense. According to the "Congressional Quarterly Almanac," the Reagan Plan called for domestic programs to drop from 60 percent to 52 percent of the federal budget over four years. Let's go to New York. Time now for Jack Cafferty and "The Cafferty File." Jack, I hope you had a nice weekend. Hope you enjoyed the game last night like the rest of us.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I didn't think it was much of a game actually. But they're not all great.
BLITZER: My prediction was almost on, not 100 percent.
CAFFERTY: You picked Pittsburgh?
BLITZER: Pittsburgh 21-17, and it was 21-10.
CAFFERTY: Oh, you were close.
BLITZER: So I was close.
CAFFERTY: Did you win any office pools?
BLITZER: I won nothing. I don't bet.
CAFFERTY: Oh, you don't gamble. All right. Haven't we been here, done this? Senate Judiciary Committee hearings investigating the use of wiretaps. And if you assume that you're going to hold these hearings to get at the truth about what's going on and whether or not the Constitution has been violated or laws have been broken, why wouldn't you swear the attorney general in and have him testify under oath?
You know, where you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Well he didn't have to be sworn in today. Does that mean he can lie to the Judiciary Committee? Why wasn't he sworn in?
In the 1970s, it was about whether President Nixon used the NSA to illegally spy on Americans. This time it's about whether President Bush is using the NSA to illegally spy on Americans. Nixon was eventually driven to resign the presidency.
And the Foreign Intelligence Service Act or FISA, became law in 1978. This law says government agencies must obtain a warrant for domestic wiretapping of terrorist suspects in the United States. Repeat, it's the law.
It even includes an emergency provision. The government can wait up to 72 hours after it starts wiretapping to go to the secret court and get the warrant. Here's the question. Is President Bush breaking the law by spying on Americans without a warrant? You can e-mail us at caffertyfile@CNN.com or you can go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile. Maybe you know, Wolf. Why didn't they make the attorney general testify under oath?
BLITZER: I do know the answer to that, because I heard what Arlen Specter, the chairman of the committee, said right at the beginning of the hearing. He said that the attorney general himself was willing to be sworn in. But Arlen Specter decided that was not necessary. And as a result he didn't do so.
He said that the penalties under the law giving lying to the committee even when you're not sworn in are significant enough. You don't necessarily need to swear in the attorney general of the United States. That was Arlen Specter's explanation.
CAFFERTY: Political hogwash.
BLITZER: All right, well that's his explanation. You asked me if I knew the answer.
CAFFERTY: I understand.
BLITZER: I gave you the answer.
CAFFERTY: I come to the throne to seek the wisdom of the man in charge.
BLITZER: All right, that was the answer. Thanks very much, Jack. We'll get back to you soon. Coming up, regardless of calls for calm, there's no let up in Muslim anger over a Danish cartoon that depicts the prophet Mohammed. We'll take a look at violent protests from Asia to Africa.
And it was a wild day in court at the trial of the admitted al Qaeda member Zacarias Moussaoui. We'll tell you what happened. And the flight over Hillary Clinton. What's the strategy behind Republican Party attacks on the former first lady? You are in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Tens of thousands of Muslims took to the streets once again today as outrage continues over cartoons of the prophet Mohammed, first published in a Danish newspaper. Lebanon apologized to Denmark a day after protesters torched the building housing the Danish Consulate in Beirut. One man reportedly died in that blaze.
Iran today announced it's cutting all trade ties with Denmark, as protesters hurled fire bombs at the Danish Embassy in Tehran. And others threw stones at the Austrian Embassy. In the world's most populous Muslim country, Indonesia, demonstrators in four cities demanded that Denmark apologize for the cartoons.
They gathered outside the Danish Embassy in Jakarta and stoned the Consulate in the city of Surabaya where police fired warning shots to disperse the crowd. And in Kabul, hundreds marched on the Danish Embassy, hurling stones, smashing several windows. North of the Afghan capital, outside the U.S. military base at Bagram, a provincial official says two protesters were killed when police opened fire on stone throwers. Our Zain Verjee is on assignment. She's filling in for Soledad on "AMERICAN MORNING" all this week. So let's go to CNN'S Betty Nguyen at the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, for a quick check of other stories making news. Hi, Betty.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there. Kind of our version of musical chairs for you, Wolf. Here's what we're following today. An international manhunt is under way for a group of convicted al Qaeda terrorists who escaped from a prison in Yemen. They were among 23 prisoners, all of them described as dangerous by international authorities. Now listen to this. The men tunneled their way out of a heavily-guarded underground facility last week. Included in the group is Ahmed Badawi, the convicted mastermind of the 2000 attack on the USS Cole that killed 17 American sailors. Investigators are looking into the possibility that Yemeni security agents may have helped in that escape.
Admitted al Qaeda member Zacarias Moussaoui was repeatedly removed from federal court today for criticizing the proceedings and his court-appointed attorney. Now it was the first day of jury selection for the sentencing phase of his trial. Moussaoui has pled guilty to terrorism conspiracy charges and he could face the death penalty. We're going to have a live report on these proceedings in the next hour.
Now to Egypt. Anger and grief over last week's ferry tragedy that turned to violence today. Family members of victims, many still awaiting word on the fate of their loved ones, ransacked the offices of the company that owned the ferry. More than 1,000 people are thought to have died when the ship caught fire and then sank in the Red Sea on Friday.
International nuclear inspectors say Iran has ordered them to remove surveillance cameras and agency seals from its facilities. Tehran is also said to be sharply reducing the number and type of inspections it allows. The move comes after the International Nuclear Energy Agency referred Iran the U.N. Security Council for possible sanctions. Wolf?
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Betty. We'll get back to you very soon. Still ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, when Senator Hillary Clinton lashes out at the Bush administration, is she coming across as too angry? We'll tell you why Republicans may try to take advantage of her attacks.
And President Bush sends his budget blueprint to Capitol Hill. But is that budget printed in red ink? Coming up, I'll speak live with the budget director over at the White House. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Senator Hillary Clinton has been pulling no punches lately when it comes to the Bush administration. But Republicans are hitting right back. Let's turn to our Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider. Bill?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Who's the voice of the Democratic party, Wolf? Democrats may not be sure. But the Republican national chairman seems to have an answer.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): On Sunday, Republican National Chairman Ken Mehlman made this observation.
KEN MEHLMAN, REPUBLICAN NATL CMTE. CHAIRMAN: I don't think the American people, if you look historically, elect angry candidates.
SCHNEIDER: He's right about that. Americans seem to prefer candidates with a sunny outlook, even if they are running in gloomy times, like Ronald Reagan in 1980 and Bill Clinton in 1992. How about Hillary Clinton, the Democratic front runner for 2008?
MEHLMAN: Hillary Clinton seems to have a lot of anger.
SCHNEIDER: Mehlman specifically referred to this remark.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, (D) NEW YORK: I predict to you that this administration will go down in history as one of the worst that has ever governed our country.
SCHNEIDER: And maybe this reaction at the State of the Union speech.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This year the first of about 78 million baby boomers turn 60 including two of my dad's favorite people. Me and President Clinton.
SCHNEIDER: We are not amused. Republicans have noticed how Senator Clinton has been taking moderate positions. She's drawing protests from the left, who complained that her views on the war in Iraq are too moderate.
Hillary a moderate? Republicans can't let that happen.
MEHLMAN: There's a lot of talk about a new Hillary Clinton. But if you look at the record. It's a very left wing record.
SCHNEIDER: Left wing, angry, sounds like the role Howard Dean was supposed to play. But Senator Clinton is the closest thing Democrats have to a national voice right now.
CLINTON: I would suggest that the Washington Republicans worry about these devastating budget cuts, the confusion and bureaucratic nightmare in the prescription drug benefit. That that's where they should be spending their time and energy instead of trying to divert attention away from their many failures and shortcomings.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Republicans had hoped to bloody Senator Clinton in her reelection race to the Senate this year. But the New York GOP has failed to put up a strong opponent. Wolf?
BLITZER: So Bill, I take it Mehlman would have given better advice to Hillary Clinton at the State of the Union when the president made that joke about himself and President Clinton instead of having that gloomy smirk. If she would have laughed and smiled as a result that would have made her more attractive. Is that what Mehlman was suggesting?
SCHNEIDER: He didn't mention that incident. I think if she had laughed and smiled he wouldn't have said a word.
BLITZER: Thanks. Bill Schneider with that good analysis as usual.
Up next. Beyond the numbers. I'll speak live with the Bush budget director Josh Bolten about what programs are being bulked up, what programs are being trimmed or cut. And I'll ask him about the bulging budget deficit.
Plus, Alberto Gonzales in the hot seat today over domestic spying. But which party is hurt by the current controversy? We'll find out in today's strategy session.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Does the president's budget blueprint have too much red ink? Does it pay for the war on terror at the expense of social programs like Medicare and education? Joining us now is the president's point man on government spending, The White House budget director, Josh Bolten. Josh thanks very much for joining us.
This is a record budget, $2.77 trillion dollars and that's not all of it, is there? There's much more in these supplemental requests that you keep off this budget, is that correct?
JOSH BOLTEN, WHITE HOUSE BUDGET DIRECTOR: No. What we've put forward in the 2007 budget includes everything that we expect to be spending in 2006 and pretty much everything we expect in 2007. So as far as we're concerned it's all in, in the out years, there may be some stuff ongoing. But this is a budget that we tried to make as transparent as possible, including costs like the war and the response to Hurricane Katrina.
BLITZER: So in other words, you don't expect next year as this year and the year before there were these supplemental spending requests for the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, $120 billion. What you're saying is that no more of these supplementing requests. Is that what you are saying?
BOLTEN: No, no, no. The supplemental requests are absolutely necessary and respond to the president's direction to me that we are going to support our fighting men and women who are in harm's way with all the resources they need.
BLITZER: Well, why do you need supplemental requests? Why not include all of that in the annual budget?
BOLTEN: Because the responsible way to handle it is not in the base, which ends up being spending that just goes on indefinitely, but as you need it. If it's extraordinary, one-time occurrences, like a war, the right way to handle it in budgeting is to do it supplemental.
But what we have done, Wolf, is in our budget presentation, we have fully taken into account for all of the war spending we anticipate for 2006, including supplemental request that we have yet to put forward the plan to do in the next few days.
BLITZER: John Kerry, the president's opponent in the last election, issued a statement saying this. He said, "The president is cutting money for veterans, child support enforcement, Medicare, student loans, food stamps, so he can cling to deficit-exploding wasteful tax policy without giving one dime in tax relief to the 19 million middle class families who will pay higher taxes next year." Is he right?
BOLTEN: Boy, he's wrong on every single one of those counts. I'm not sure where to begin. But the first place to start is that the tax relief that the president and the Congress have enacted is very broad based, goes to the entire population, and has lowered tax rate for everybody, including the middle class, and in fact, especially the middle class, who now pay a lower portion of our income taxes than to people in the upper income brackets.
Much more important than that is that what the tax cuts have done is that they have set off substantial growth in our economy. That's the most important thing for the country's fiscal health. In other words, revenues coming in are the most important thing, from my standpoint as the budget director.
More importantly, it's the most important thing for the economy's health, for job growth. Because when the economy's growing, the people who are going to benefit the most are the people at the lower end of the income scale.
BLITZER: But all of this comes with a price tag. For example, you want to make the tax cuts that were approved during the first term of the Bush administration permanent. And you project over the next ten years, if that happens, this will cost $1.4 trillion if you make all of those tax cuts permanent?
BOLTEN: Well, we've included in our budget projections the permanence of all of the president's tax cuts. So when you say cost, that's not the right way to look at these things. What folks like Senator Kerry and others are proposing is a $1.4 trillion tax increase on the American people, which we believe very strongly would harm the overall economic growth and reduce the amount of revenues coming into the treasury on the one hand, and on the other hand, make it much more difficult for the people that they say they're trying to protect to get along in this economy.
The first people to suffer when there is a downturn in the economy are not rich people, it's people on the lower income scale. We need to keep economic growth going, and we need to make sure that the employment rate stays high.
BLITZER: This is the largest federal budget in history. When we spoke last year, correct me if I'm wrong, you were projecting a budget deficit of about $268 billion this year. You're now saying it's really $423 billion. That's a difference of 63 percent. How come the budget deficit that you now project, $423 billion, which is a record once again, why has it exploded like that?
BOLTEN: No, I think, Wolf, when we last spoke, we were projecting the deficit for 2006 to end up in the $350 billion to $360 billion range. And the reason it's gone up from there to the low $400 billion range is largely a product of our response to Hurricane Katrina and some ongoing work.
BLITZER: Let me correct myself. When you proposed the 2005 budget, you were projecting for this year there would be a $268 billion deficit. And it's really going to be $423 billion. So that was two years ago. But you were off by a significant sum, which raises this question. How credible are these budget deficit projections down the years that you released today?
BOLTEN: Well, I think they're very credible. And, in fact, when we put out our projection a year ago, we were projecting for 2006 about a three percent of GDP budget deficit. It's coming in at 3.2 percent. When we put out our projection a year ago as well, or two years ago, we were projecting about a 3.5 percent of GDP budget deficit, and we ended up at 2.6 percent.
The reason why that 2005 deficit came down so substantially is we did get good strong economic growth. We did get revenues coming into the treasury. That's what we can expect going forward if we keep the tax cuts in place and if we pursue the spending restraint that the president has put into the 2007 budget.
BLITZER: Let me put some other numbers on the screen because this is pretty alarming to a lot of our viewers who are worried about the younger people having to pay for the debt that we incur right now. In January 2001, the national debt was some $5.7 trillion. January 2006, it's now $8.2 trillion.
And you yourself in your budget projected it will be $11.5 trillion by 2011. Who's going to pay for this national debt? The Saudis, the Chinese, the Taiwanese? So many foreign governments are really keeping the U.S. economy going by buying these U.S. treasury bills.
BOLTEN: Wolf, right now, our debt to GDP ratio -- which is probably the best way to measure the debt in the economy -- our debt to GDP ratio remains below 40 percent, which, in the context of the industrialized world, is pretty good. Most countries would love to have a debt to GDP ratio that low.
But you're absolutely right to raise the long-term problem that we face that really begins 10, 20, 30 years from now. And the reason why we have that exploding debt situation is that we have unfunded obligations in our entitlement programs, in Medicare, in Medicaid, and Social Security, that no amount of spending cuts on the discretionary side nor any amount of tax increases could possibly close.
That's why the president has called for fundamental reform of these entitlement programs and asked for Democrats to join Republicans in seeking long-term entitlement reform. That's the only way we're going to solve the long-term fiscal crisis that we face.
BLITZER: Unfortunately we have to leave it there. Josh Bolten has got a really incredibly tough job with this massive federal budget. But thanks very much for joining us.
BOLTEN: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Appreciate it.
The Internet is giving us some extraordinary insight into the president's 2007 budget proposal. Today, the White House launched a Web site that grades the performance of hundreds of federal programs. Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner once again has more -- Jacki?
SCHECHNER: Well, this yardstick of measurement of federal programs has been around since 2003. But now it's being made public so the taxpayers can hold the government accountable and Capitol Hill lawmakers can use it when they're determining budget policy.
It's called Expectmore.gov. The programs are rated on a performing or not performing scale. Some of the ones that are performing. The space shuttle is performing, the Peace Corps is performing, and the Mine Safety and Health Administration is performing. Take a look at FEMA. This is interesting. They are performing, but they're only giving a rating of adequate.
Now, let's take a look at one that isn't performing. That would be Amtrak. The grade they're given is not performing. And what they do is they say it's ineffective, they give where it's failing, the recommendations for making it better. One of the things we wanted to note, Wolf, is going through this Web site today, it actually does have some glitches of its own, but I'm sure they'll eventually work those out.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jacki, for that.
And coming up, domestic spying. Does it safeguard national security or sabotage civil liberties? A fierce debate on Capitol Hill today and the subject of our strategy session. That's coming up.
Also, Louisiana's governor leads a bus tour of New Orleans and a special session of the legislature. We'll tell you what's behind the road trip. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to today's strategy session. The back and forth debate over the government's secret domestic spying program. In today's hearings, some senators blasted the program as against the law. Yet the Attorney General Alberto Gonzales hit right back, insisting it's absolutely legal.
Joining us now are two CNN political analysts. Donna Brazile is a Democratic strategist, Bay Buchanan is president of American Cause. Let's listen to this little excerpt, Donna, from what the attorney general said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALBERTO GONZALES, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Our enemy is listening. And I cannot help but wonder if they aren't shaking their heads in amazement at the thought that anyone would imperil such a sensitive program by leaking its existence in the first place and smiling at the prospect that we might now disclose even more or perhaps even unilaterally disarm ourselves of a key tool in the war on terror.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Those are strong words. And I'm sure they resonate with millions of Americans out there.
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And also I think the words that some Democratic senators say today. That, look, this is not about protecting the American people. We all support protecting the American people. The president has the right to spy on the terrorists, but he should do so within the law. And make sure that, if he's in a hurry, then come back and get the warrant later. But don't break the law in the process.
BLITZER: Would you feel comfortable if Hillary Clinton were president of the United States and she authorized this kind of domestic surveillance?
BAY BUCHANAN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN CAUSE: Absolutely. First, it's not domestic. It's international. That's the case here. It's not domestic. It's somebody overseas related to terrorists talking to somebody here in this country.
BLITZER: Right. Well, I believe half the conversation is here in the United States. That would be domestic.
BUCHANAN: Well, that portion. But it's international cause, what they usually refer to. Domestic being two calls that both...
BLITZER: At least one of the parties is here in the United States.
BUCHANAN: But that is the key point, Wolf, and that's why I make it. And that is, yes, if Hillary did it and said, "Listen, I'm trying to listen to the terrorists. And I don't care who they're talking to, whether it be in Europe or here in the United States. I'm going to be listening to them." I'd say more, "More power to you. Of course you should be listening." I don't understand.
BLITZER: But let me ask you this. What would be wrong if you have two suspected Al Qaeda operatives, one in San Diego, o in New York. They're both here in the United States. Would it be wrong to listen in on them?
BUCHANAN: Yes. That clearly comes under the Patriot Act.
BLITZER: So you'd have to go to the FISA court? BUCHANAN: We'd have to go to some court. But that's clear. There's two people in this country, and I have no trouble with that at all because it could be two Americans in this country, and then you do open it up.
BLITZER: You have a problem with that?
BRAZILE: That's the law. It comes under FISA. The president knows that. And they know that they went around the law for whatever reason, we still don't know. Because I thought, today, Mr. Gonzales did a good job in spinning for his boss. But it calls out once again the need for a special council because you cannot bring a subordinate to the president and say, "Oh, you just spend." We need to get to the bottom of it, get to the goods.
BUCHANAN: It's right there in FISA. I read it myself. It says that you need...
BLITZER: The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court.
BUCHANAN: Exactly. It says you do need a warrant for these kind of calls unless authorized by statute. And it's clearly authorized by statute.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: We authorized him to bomb people's homes. It's clearly...
BLITZER: But Arlen Specter, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said there was no discussion of warrantless wiretaps when that statute -- when that language was enacted.
BUCHANAN: And very likely it didn't anticipate Al Qaeda. It doesn't matter. It clearly is in there, it clearly is a statute that has passed that gave him authority to go to war and take any necessary action against the enemy. If I can kill you, if I can kill, blow up your home, take your children along with it, but I can't listen to your phone calls, nobody in this country really buys that. And I don't think the judges will either.
BRAZILE: But we are a nation of laws, not of men -- and Mr. Gonzales said that over and over and over again about everyone must uphold the Constitution, including the president. And there's no law that gave the president the authority to do this.
BUCHANAN: The courts have upheld that he is allowed to have foreign surveillance. Always they have upheld this. It has never been backed down. I believe if this goes to courts, he will again be uphold.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: They have 72 hours to go back and get the warrant.
BUCHANAN: You know, and that's the dispute here. It's clear there is a legal dispute. But if indeed there's a strong argument that, indeed, this was legal, there is no issue here. Maybe it would be better do it another way.
BLITZER: Why not ask the Congress to codify it, and then there would be no question? But the White House says they don't want to do that.
BUCHANAN: And I don't understand why they don't want to do that if it's done in a proper way so that they do have the flexibility to go in and always be able to listen to the enemy at all times. As an American with children, I want to make certain the president is listening at all times and does not hesitate at all to listen to the enemy when they're talking to people here in this country.
BLITZER: Is this a winning -- forget about the law right now. Politics. Is this a winning political issue for the president, as Karl Rove and some of his advisers apparently believe it is?
BRAZILE: Well, I think they're going to try to make this the creation of the Homeland Security Department, which was used in a 2002 election. But you know what? There's been enough information out there. The American people clearly have seen the light of day in terms of misleading us with war and all the misleading statements. So I don't think this issue will resonate as much as it did in 2002.
BUCHANAN: Wolf, I think it's excellent for the people. And one thing they can add is, we've been briefing the Congress of the United States 12 different times. None of them seemed to see any problem.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: They expressed doubts about it. Mr. Rockefeller expressed doubts, Ms. Pelosi expressed doubts.
BUCHANAN: But they didn't call on stopping it at all. What is it that they didn't understand about this at the time? Did they not ask enough question?
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: They should have walked out of a room and called a press conference.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: They would have been in jail.
BLITZER: We'll leave it right there. Thanks, guys, very much. Donna and Bay.
Up next, you've heard the Bush administration's position, and you've also heard the position of its critics. Now it's your turn to weigh in. Is President Bush breaking the law or abiding by it when it comes to spying on Americans without a court order? Jack Cafferty has your e-mail. And a 9/11 conspirator and admitted Al Qaeda terrorist gets his day in court. So why did Zacarias Moussaoui verbally attack his lawyers and slam the court? We'll tell you what happened earlier today. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: These are live pictures of the Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta. Coretta Scott King is lying in rest as mourners pay their respects. We've just gotten word from the White House the president has ordered that all flags fly at half staff tomorrow on federal property across the United States, federal institutions around the world, in honor of Coretta Scott king. The president and the first lady will be attending the funeral tomorrow afternoon in Atlanta.
Louisiana politics tops today's political radar. The Governor Kathleen Blanco and state lawmakers are taking a bus tour of areas of New Orleans hard hit by Hurricane Katrina. A few hours from now, the governor opens a special session of the Louisiana legislature to deal with hurricane recovery. The session will open in New Orleans before moving back to the state capital in Baton Rouge.
There's a new man running Canada today. The conservative Steven Harper was sworn in a few hours ago in Ottawa as Canada's new prime minister. Harper succeeds the liberal Paul Martin after the conservatives came out on top in national elections two weeks ago. He's Canada's first conservative prime minister in more than a dozen years.
President Bush calls the nation's new Federal Reserve chairman an economist. Mr. Bush spoke today this morning at Ben Bernanke's ceremonial swearing in. The Ivy League economist and former Bush economic adviser was confirmed by the Senate last week to succeed Alan Greenspan, who retired after nearly 20 years as the Fed chairman.
Jack Cafferty is back in New York right now with "The Cafferty File". Hi, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Hi, Wolf. Did I hear you say the Louisiana governor's going to convene a special session of the legislature to deal with the hurricane damage?
BLITZER: On a bus tour of New Orleans. That's right.
CAFFERTY: Then they're going to have a special session?
BLITZER: Yes, then they're going to go back to Baton Rouge.
CAFFERTY: What's the rush? What's it been, five months?
BLITZER: But, you know, they've been busy.
CAFFERTY: Attorney General Alberto Gonzales told the Senate Judiciary Committee today that President Bush's domestic wiretap program is both vital and legal. The question is, do you think the president is breaking the law by spying on Americans without a warrant?
B.J. in Pottstown, Pennsylvania: "Why is this even a question? There's a law. If you don't follow it, then it's broken. Of course he broke the law. Why is even asking this?" Hey, I have to do something. You know, it's part of the deal.
P. "Your liberal self-righteous indignation over the president's attempt to save us all from another attack fuels the seeds for a repeat of 9/11. How one can be upset by someone attempting to protect their home and family is beyond most thinking people."
A. writes in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, "The legal argument of Gonzales and rest of the Bush administration is quite arrogant. They're not saying, 'OK, let's clarify the FISA laws.' They're insisting Bush is entitled to dictatorial powers."
Bob in Laguna Beach: "Nice question. The president's wiretapping terrorists, not law-abiding Americans. It is very legal to do whatever spying is required to monitor the enemy. Come on. You're a joke."
Ian in Providence writes, "I'm not worried about the NSA. I think those fellows are doing a bang-up job. Mr. Bush is a great man. Iraq is totally winnable, and I have nothing bad whatsoever to say about any Republicans living or dead." And then he writes in parentheses, "I'm playing it safe. Last time I sent you an e-mail criticizing Bush, my phone bill was $587, and I was audited.
And Tom in Madison, Wisconsin writes, "Sounds like this country would be a great place to set up a democracy."
BLITZER: Did you get a lot of e-mail response to this question, Jack?
CAFFERTY: A lot, yes. And most of them along the lines of they feel like some law was probably broken. Some who, as I suggested in the ones I just read, are saying, "You know, we have a problem with these terrorist. You've got to do what you've got to do."
But the overwhelming majority of the e-mails -- and there were hundreds and hundreds of them -- are, "Bush has stepped over the line. This is against the law. He shouldn't be doing it without a warrant. And something needs to be done about what is perceived as an arrogant use of presidential power."
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jack Cafferty. We'll check back with you in the next hour. Jack Cafferty with "The Cafferty File."
Still to come, you've heard about eavesdropping and wiretapping. But how does the government's secret domestic spying program really work? More importantly, who does it target?
And in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, attack of the killer bees. May sound like a B-list movie, but right now in Florida, get this, many are buzzing about some dangerous bees on a feeding frenzy. We're going to tell you what's going on in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the hot shots coming in from our friends over at the Associated Press, pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow. In Iraq, first war, now bird flu. Health workers collect ducks from local farms to help fight the virus. At least eight people are in the hospital right now suffering symptoms similar to the deadly H5N1 strain.
Belgium, Saddam's sculpture. This floating simulation by a Czech artist was banned by the mayor of one town because it was considered too controversial. Port-au-Prince, Haiti, the gospel and politics. The pastor of this church urges his congregation to vote tomorrow in the first election since the ousting of the former president, Jean- Bertrand Aristide.
And in Italy, Academy Award winner Charlize Theron at the premiere of her new movie, "North Country." Some of today's hot shots. Pictures often worth a thousand words.
Let's go to Betty Nguyen once again at the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta for a closer look at some other stories making news -- Betty?
NGUYEN: Wolf, as we remember Coretta Scott King in Atlanta today, friends and colleagues of another renowned rights campaigner, this one feminist Betty Friedan, gathered to remember her in New York today. Friedan died Saturday of congested heart failure. Known for her intensity and fiery temper, she's credited with helping spark the feminist movement with her 1963 book, "The Feminine Mystique." Three years later, she co-founded the National Organization for Women.
The world's first face transplant patient met the media for the first time today. Take a look at this. Speaking at the hospital in France where she underwent the surgery in November, Isabelle Dinoire said she hopes her case will encourage others who have been disfigured to have hope. We'll have a full report on this groundbreaking case in the next hour -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Betty, thank you very much. We'll be getting right back to you.
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