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The Situation Room
Michael Brown Says He Feels Like A Scapegoat; FEMA Still Having Problems With Housing For Katrina Victims; Paul Pillar Claims Pre-War Intelligence Was Manipulated To Make Case For Iraq War; Winter Storm Heads Toward Northeast; Arkansas Town Mired In Political Scandal; Cheney May Or May Not Have Legal Trouble For Giving Permission To Leak Classified Information; Lawyers Discuss Leak Case; Gretzky's Wife Involved In Illegal Gambling Ring
Aired February 10, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much Lou.
And to our viewers, you are now in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you the day's top stories.
Happening now, it's 7:00 p.m. on Capitol Hill where the former FEMA director testified in a stormy hearing about the response to Hurricane Katrina. We'll show you the heated exchanges the finger pointing.
And it's 7:00 p.m. over at the White House. According to a prosecutor, the vice president's former chief of staff says he had permission to divulge classified information. Could that mean some legal trouble though for Dick Cheney himself?
And in the northeastern United States winter storm warnings are up with blizzard conditions and more than a foot of snow possible in some major metropolitan areas. We will have the latest forecast.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
The storm of controversy over the Hurricane Katrina disaster is whipping up once again with the former FEMA Director Michael Brown testifying candidly before a Senate committee.
He said flatly he feels like a scapegoat and that institutional failures and red tape resulted in the disastrous response.
Let's begin our extensive coverage this hour with CNN's Tom Foreman. He is here in THE SITUATION ROOM -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, ever since this storm time and time again the federal government has said we couldn't have known, we didn't know and time and time again they have had to back off. And this testimony was part of it today.
Remember the big picture as we start off here. This was the storm just three days before it hit off of Florida. This was the storm as it moved in a little bit closer on the 27th. You can see how it is moving in there. It is huge.
Hurricanes are one of the most predictable things we have in terms of natural disasters. Here it was the day before it hit right off there massive headed for New Orleans. The weather service said it was headed for New Orleans.
And this is the storm on August 29th right over New Orleans. What Michael Brown was talking about today was how federal authorities knew what was on the way and they knew what was happening at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel like you have been sort of set up to be the scapegoat, to be the fall guy?
MICHAEL BROWN, FMR. FEMA DIRECTOR: Yes sir. Yes sir. I can't lie to you. I feel that way.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Former FEMA Director Michael Brown testified he did everything he could in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. He called the storm our worst nightmare, and he contradicted homeland security officials, who say they were unaware of the scope of the disaster. Brown says they got the same information he did.
BROWN: So for them to now claim that we didn't have awareness of it, I think is just bologna.
FOREMAN: Brown testified that FEMA was doomed from the time it was folded into the Department of Homeland Security after 9/11 citing what he called a cultural clash.
BROWN: And the policies and the decisions that were implemented by DHS put FEMA on a path to failure.
FOREMAN: But Minnesota Republican Norm Coleman said Brown should have been able to overcome that, and he accused Brown of not owning up to his own mistakes.
BROWN: I have admitted to mistakes publicly. I have admitted to mistakes in hearings. What more, Senator Coleman, do you want from me? What do you want from me?
SEN. NORM COLEMAN (R), MINNESOTA: You didn't provide the leadership. Even with structural infirmities strong leadership can overcome that and clearly that wasn't the case here.
BROWN: I absolutely resent you sitting here saying that I lack the leadership to do that because I was down there pushing everything that I could.
FOREMAN: Brown also said the Homeland Security Department is so focused on terrorism, natural disasters are treated like a stepchild.
BROWN: Had there been a report out Monday that said yes we have confirmed that a terrorist has blown up the 17th street canal, levy, then everybody would have jumped all over that. (END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: But, of course, there was no such report. What we did know that a giant storm was coming in. It had been clearly laid out by the National Weather Service. It was bearing down on this town. We do know now for a fact that as the levies failed and the town flooded like this the federal authorities were in fact being told over and over again what was happening.
Yes. Was there some confusion? Yes. Was there some difficulty? Absolutely. Was Michael Brown part of that? Absolutely. But the big question being asked now is if he was doing such a bad job why did Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff and the president leave him in their for days dealing with this if they knew it was so wrong at that point, Wolf?
BLITZER: Tom Foreman thank you very much.
Let's check in with our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux right now.
Suzanne, what is the reaction over at the White House?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, you know, it is interesting because White House officials really dispute very little of what Mike Brown testified today. They say that there were video teleconference calls between Brown, the president, the vice president on many occasions.
What they are taking issue with, however, is the suggestion that they did not appreciate the gravity of the situation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): While the president went about his public schedule like business as usual, behind the scenes the White House went into full P.R. battle mode. Aides were furious not over Mike Brown's testimony, which they chose not to respond to, but a "New York Time's" article that slammed the administration for its handling of Katrina.
The press secretary and other aides calling it inaccurate, sad and demoralizing. The paper reported the White House knew of the levees failure on the night of the storm, but that the alert did not seem to register for the president.
White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan disputed that in an off-camera briefing saying, "There were conflicting reports coming in regarding the levees. Our top priority was focused on saving lives."
The White House defended its initial response. The night before the storm hit the president did call the area governors and New Orleans's mayor, issued emergency declarations for federal relief and issued this warning from his Crawford ranch.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We cannot stress enough the danger this hurricane poses to Gulf Coast communities.
MALVEAUX: But his subsequent trips to Arizona and California and comments like this...
BUSH: And Brownie you are doing a heck of a job.
MALVEAUX: ...gave many Americans the impression he was out of touch.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: White House officials again acknowledge this evening, they say that the government failed on all levels, local, state and federal levels. They are also very eager, Wolf, to get their own report out there by Fran Townsend, Homeland Security adviser to the president. And they say that report is coming very soon -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Suzanne, you were there covering the president at Crawford, Texas, as this hurricane was approaching, as it hit. What do you remember contemporaneously as it was unfolding?
MALVEAUX: The one thing that I remember is that many of us kept asking whether or not the president was going to change his schedule. We were initially at Crawford then we traveled to Arizona and then California. And that was the one question that kept coming up, when he is actually going to go back home? When he is going to go to Washington and deal with this?
For days what was happening was that they were asserting he is dealing with it at the Crawford ranch. That he is talking to people, reaching out to them, keeping informed, but that was one issue there that many people had questions about and were really pushing the administration on.
And then it was that Wednesday he cut the vacation two days short and then returned to Washington to deal with it directly with his cabin members.
BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House thank you very much.
More than five months after the disaster, FEMA still is having problems helping the tens of thousands of people who lost their homes.
Our Gulf Coast correspondent Susan Roesgen is live in New Orleans now. She has got that part of the story. What is going on, Susan?
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN GULF COAST CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, that is what a lot of people want to know. We went to Hope, Arkansas, 450 miles north of the Gulf Coast. You know, Hope, Arkansas, famous as the birthplace of Bill Clinton.
But lately, Wolf, it has become infamous as the FEMA staging area for thousands of mobile homes intended for hurricane victims here on the Gulf Coast.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROESGEN (voice-over): It looks like a mirage. Row after row of mobile homes nearly 11,000 in all laid end to end in the fields around the Hope Municipal Airport.
(on-camera): It's one thing to talk about 11,000 mobile homes, but to really get an idea of what is happening out here you have got to see them from the air.
(voice-over): FEMA pays the airport $25,000 a month to lease this land. And the mobile homes themselves cost a total of $431 million. That infuriates Arkansas Congressman Mike Ross.
REP. MIKE ROSS (D), ARKANSAS: We want them to come up here and pick these manufactured homes up, all 11,000 of them, and take them to the people who lost their homes and everything they owned on the Gulf Coast, well over five months ago. This is five months past due, and it is time for FEMA to get moving.
ROESGEN: FEMA admits that not one of these mobile homes is heading anywhere anytime soon.
DAVID PASSEY, FEMA: If people want to blame us, then they can blame us. But we need cooperation from local property owners. We need cooperation from local officials, and then we have to realize there will be some physical limitations to where we can place emergency housing.
ROESGEN: Congressman Ross says any limitations on moving these mobile homes have to be lifted.
ROSS: My job is to hold FEMA accountable at the highest levels and get them to use some common sense and change the regulations where they can get off high center and get these homes out of Hope, Arkansas, and to Louisiana and Mississippi to the people who want them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROESGEN: Tonight on "ANDERSON COOPER 360" you will see why FEMA says it cannot move those mobile homes, and you will hear why the congressman says FEMA's excuses just can't cut it -- Wolf.
BLITZER: To the tax payers like all of us, Susan, it looks like such an outrage, thousands of these mobile homes, and we are paying enormous sums of money to keep people in hotels when they have all these mobile homes. It just seems like an outrage.
ROESGEN: It certainly does, Wolf, and not only to people down here on the Gulf Coast, but also to people in Hope. And you have to understand they're getting $25,000 a month to repair that Hope Airport.
So it's actually a good deal from FEMA for the city of Hope. But still, people up there are saying hey, we feel bad about these mobile homes. We want them down to the people who need them. BLITZER: We'll see you on "ANDERSON COOPER 360" tonight, Susan, 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
Let's check in with CNN's Fredricka Whitfield now for a closer look at other some stories making news. Hi, Fred.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Well, thanks so much, Wolf. Well, President Bush had a message for House Republicans at a closed door meeting in Maryland today saying, quote, "don't lose your nerve. I won't lose mine."
Mr. Bush was questioned closely about his policies on Iran, healthcare and immigration, to name a few. People attending the meeting say the president got an ovation when he defended his program of eavesdropping on some phone calls without warrants.
Twenty-nine people were hurt in a crash on the U.S.-Mexican border this afternoon. Three vans and a car were involved in the crash on the U.S. side of the border near San Diego. At least one of the vans was being chased by U.S. Border Patrol agents.
The kidnappers of American journalist Jill Carroll are threatening to kill her if demands are not met by February 26th. That's according to the Kuwaiti television station which played a tape of Carroll yesterday. The kidnappers have been demanding the release of all women prisoners held by U.S. forces in Iraq. They abducted Carroll last month.
And officials in Los Angeles County are taking a series of steps to prevent more rioting in the county jails. Those steps include segregating black and Hispanic inmates.
One inmate was beaten to death in a week of fighting. Officials say much of the violence has been orchestrated by rival gangs. Other measures include bringing in clergy and trying to separate inmates thought to be ringleaders.
And it was grand opening day for a $25 million learning center in Southern California. It's a project of golf star Tiger Woods, who put up more than $5 million for the project. Among those on hand for the opening, Former President Bill Clinton and California First Lady Maria Shriver. The center will help students interested in math, science and technology.
And, Wolf, aside from all the titles and the championships, Tiger Woods says this is the greatest thing he's ever done because, for the first time, he feels like he's really going to help shape the lives of so many people.
BLITZER: Well, good for him. Thanks very much, Fredricka Whitfield. We'll get back to you soon.
Let's check in with Jack Cafferty in New York now. He's got "The Cafferty File." Hi, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How are you doing? Eleven thousand trailers sitting in Hope, Arkansas, empty, five months after Katrina -- unbelievable.
So the first report that these levees failed in New Orleans and that the city was flooding came as early as 8:30 on the morning of the storm, that was Monday. The president and the head of Homeland Security say they were unaware of flooding until the day after the storm. Here's President Bush at a news conference five days after Katrina.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The levees broke on Tuesday in New Orleans. On Wednesday, we -- and Thursday we started evacuating people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: So it was much more than the federal government simply being slow to respond. The people ultimately in charge -- the president and the Homeland Security secretary -- apparently didn't even know what the hell was going on until more than 24 hours after the levees had failed.
Why didn't they? One theory is that Bush's inner circle was nowhere to be found. The president and Karl Rove were in Texas, Vice President Cheney was in Wyoming, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was here in New York City shoe shopping and going to a Broadway show, and Michael Chertoff was attending a conference on bird flu in Atlanta. And everybody else was afraid to tell the president the bad news.
Ultimately, his staff put together a DVD of newscasts of the horrific reports from New Orleans for Mr. Bush to watch. All this must make the people whose lives were destroyed by Katrina feel just wonderful.
Here's the question. How does the new information about the government's failure after Katrina make you feel? E-mail us at caffertyfile@cnn.com or go to cnn.com/caffertyfile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We're going to have a lot more on this story this hour, Jack. Thank you very much.
The case for war -- that's also coming up. Did the White House twist the facts to make its case? Now a senior former intelligence officer over at the CIA is speaking out publicly right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Plus, Vice President Cheney and the CIA leak case. Is he facing any legal jeopardy? We're going to try to get to the bottom of this question.
And right now, a blizzard watch in effect, the Northeast bracing for a powerful winter punch. We're tracking the storm. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Happening now, a blizzard watch in New York City and it's already snowing in Memphis. We're going to show you live what's going on. All the information you need to know. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: It's an accusation that's been leveled time and time again and denied time and time again. Did the Bush administration manipulate intelligence to make the case for war in Iraq? This time though, the allegation is coming from the CIA's former point man for the entire Middle East.
Our national security correspondent David Ensor has the story -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATL. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Paul Pillar, who until just months ago was a senior U.S. intelligence analyst, says that in the run-up to the Iraq war, the Bush administration misused intelligence in public.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice-over): It was the central pillar in the argument for preemptive war.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.
ENSOR: The United States put its credibility on the line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.
ENSOR: But much of that intelligence turned out to be wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is to blame? No question, it's the intelligence community. We did it to ourselves.
ENSOR: That was the view endorsed by the president's Silberman- Robb commission and by the president himself.
BUSH: A bipartisan Senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgments related to Iraq's weapons programs.
ENSOR: But now Paul Pillar, the former senior CIA analyst in charge of the Middle East, is swinging back, charging the Bush administration used cherry-picking of intelligence to justify a decision for war it had already made, a view some less senior CIA veterans have already voiced.
MICHAEL SCHEUER, FORMER CIA ANALYST: There was just a resignation within the agency that we were going to war against Iraq and it didn't make any difference what the analysis was. ENSOR: Most of the intelligence on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was flawed, that Pillar admits. But he writes that the White House ignored CIA warnings before the invasion that a U.S. occupation force, quote, "would itself be the target of resentment and attacks, including by guerrilla warfare, unless it established security and put Iraq on the road to prosperity in the first few weeks or months after the fall of Saddam."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: Some administration officials have privately presented Pillar as a critic of Bush administration policies, but frankly, Pillar is famously careful, nonpartisan, and well-respected, both in and out of government -- Wolf.
BLITZER: David Ensor reporting. Thank you, David, very much.
Paul Pillar was the CIA's point man for intelligence on Iraq until last year. His accusation that the Bush administration politicized the data on Iraq appears in the journal, "Foreign Affairs."
I sat down here in THE SITUATION ROOM with Paul Pillar earlier today and asked him about that cherry-picking charge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL PILLAR, FORMER CIA OFFICIAL: Any time you have a policy maker, no matter what the preference, no matter what the issue, taking individual pieces of raw intelligence and putting it out for public consumption without putting it in the context of a fully analyzed approach where you look at all of the reporting, the reporting that goes one way and the reporting that goes another way, you're inevitably going to have a bias.
And that's not, you know, unique to this administration or to this issue, but it really reverses the normal proper role between intelligence and policy making.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Pillar charges that, in his words, it was pretty clear long before the war that the Bush administration was set on removing Saddam Hussein irrespective of what the intelligence analysis really showed.
Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, his former chief of staff says he was given license to leak classified information to reporters. Could that mean any legal problems for the vice president, Dick Cheney?
Plus, severe weather closing in on the northeast right now. Some areas could see blizzard conditions this weekend. We are going to give you the latest forecast.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: It's shaping up to be one of the strongest storms of this winter, and it's heading directly for the northeast corridor but right now it's hitting Memphis, Tennessee.
Let's go to Alexis Amorose of our affiliate WPTY for a closer look at the conditions there.
What's it like Alexis?
ALEXIS AMOROSE, WPTY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you for folks who have never been to Memphis, Wolf, this is not normally what it normally looks like. We're used to warm weather, mild conditions, not big snowstorms like this.
But check this out, we've gotten some pretty heavy accumulation in just the past couple of hours here. Not something we're used to seeing on our ground.
One of the problems, though. Nobody on these roads is prepared for this. We don't have a lot of snow plows. We don't have a lot of equipment. Nobody has shovels.
We've seen people using cardboard to scrape off their cars because you can't get a scraper in the whole city. This is a weird, weird, fluke storm down here in Memphis.
So we're doing the best we can to hang in but snowflakes not a sight here every day.
BLITZER: All right. Good luck to you. And good luck to all our friends down in Memphis. That snowstorm is heading our way.
Now we're going to have much more on this coming up.
Jacqui Jeras will be joining us with a complete forecast.
We'll move on now to a political story that is raising eyebrows outside the beltway. Get this. A small town in Arkansas is being roiled by a big scandal involving its top officials in allegations, including both sex and drugs.
CNN's Ed Lavandera has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lonoke, Arkansas, population 4,300, is mired in a political scandal that even the Washington beltway would find mouth-watering.
GARRICK FELDMAN, NEWSPAPER PUBLISHER: Maybe we just had this idealistic view of small town life with white picket fences and Mr. Smith goes to Washington. And maybe those days are long over.
LAVANDERA: The city's mayor, Thomas Privett, was arrested on misdemeanor charges of theft of services for using city jail inmates to do odd jobs around his home like hanging Christmas lights. The police chief, Jay Campbell, has been arrested and accused of conspiring to make methamphetamines and then using the drugs to set up the arrest of a local resident. He's also accused of stealing jewelry from a neighbor and selling it to pawn shops.
And the police chief's wife, Kelly Campbell, is accused of providing drugs to inmates in the city jail even having sex with an inmate on work detail on 20 different occasions in a nearby hotel, the police chief's office and at a community baseball field.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None of these charges are true.
LAVANDERA: Campbell has resigned as police chief.
(on-camera): Because of a gag order the attorneys for the police chief, his wife and the mayor refuse to answer our questions on camera. But they do say the three are not guilty. And one of the attorneys even suggests these charges are politically motivated.
(voice-over): The prosecutor says politics had nothing to do with the arrest and that she had no choice but to charge these high profile city leaders.
LONA MCCASTLAIN, PROSECUTOR: Do you not want it to be public? Do you not want it to come out? Do you not want something to happen? And so, I mean, I feel like the people are going to be -- feel comfort and maybe feel like they can start trusting the system again, because it's been exposed.
LAVANDERA: The publisher of the local Arkansas "Leader" newspaper, Garrick Feldman, says the joke around town is everyone wants to be arrested so they can go to the city jail.
FELDMAN: It sounds like the Lonoke City Jail is a fun place, I mean, booze, drugs and sex.
LAVANDERA: It's an expose so tantalizing that it has left Garrick Feldman's newspaper scrambling to put out more copies. It seems his readers can't get enough of the juicy allegations.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Lonoke, Arkansas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Now to the big political controversy right here in Washington.
Did Lewis Scooter Libby have a license to leak, a go-ahead to give away classified information to selected reporters? Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff is under federal indictment. But is the vice president himself in any legal trouble?
Our Brian Todd is looking into this story. He is joining us now live from the newsroom -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, a very difficult question to answer. One that goes to intent, state of mind and where Libby superiors got their own authorizations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): According to the special prosecutor, Scooter Libby told a grand jury his superiors authorized him to disclose classified information to reporters.
Libby's former bosses aren't saying much about that. We are not even sure which bosses may have given him permission.
Still, could Vice President Cheney, President Bush or other White House officials be prosecuted for telling Libby that? Depends on who you ask.
Lanny Davis is a former White House counsel under President Clinton.
LANNY DAVIS, FMR. CLINTON W.H. SPECIAL COUNSEL: My understanding, that whether it's the president, the vice president or anyone, that before you declassify sensitive intelligence material that could effect sources and methods, that you should go to the director of the CIA and to other intelligence agencies.
TODD: CNN contacted two former top intelligence officials, former federal prosecutors and former White House attorneys. They say the president or vice president, as a matter of protocol, should first consult the CIA director or other intelligence heads before declassifying information.
That's because the intelligence officials are responsible legally for protecting sources and methods. But there may be legal exceptions.
An executive order signed by President Bush roughly three months before Scooter Libby spoke to reporters says, quote, "The need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure."
We asked a professor of national security law if this power applies only to the president and whether it might give legal protection to Scooter Libby's other superiors.
PROF. ROBERT TURNER, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Presumably, if the vice president has acted in this area with the knowledge and approval of the president in which case it is legal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Experts say the president can also deputize others to authorize declassification, cabinet level officials, sometimes people below that level.
Others say the only way any kind of legal case can be made against the superiors who gave Libby his authorization is if it could be proven they did it only for political gain and knowing it would compromise national security -- something very, very difficult to prove legally.
BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting. Brian, thank you very much.
The CIA leak investigation involves some very complicated legal issues inspiring endless legal questions. Just a short while ago, I spoke with two veteran lawyers here in Washington about this new development. Joe DiGenova -- excuse me -- is a former U.S. attorney. Richard Ben-Venista is a former Democratic Whitewater Committee counsel and a former Watergate prosecutor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Richard, let me start with you. Is anyone of Scooter Libby's superiors, whether the vice president or chief of staff or the president, in potential legal danger as a result of his testifying before a grand jury that he was authorized by superiors to leak classified information from a National Intelligence Estimate to reporters?
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, FORMER DEM. WHITEWATER CMTE. COUNSEL: I doubt it from any legal standpoint, Wolf. I think this is political in nature, and there's a lot of political fallout from this, because it's going to give further strength to those critics of the administration who point out that the administration has been in the habit of cynically leaking classified information when they felt it would help them for political purposes and then, with thunderous indignation, criticizing those who leak information that is either embarrassing or illegal, like torture, like unwarranted wiretapping of American citizens.
This has been the practice in the administration. And it's more political, in my view, and not likely to result in any criminal prosecution.
BLITZER: All right. I want to press you on that.
But I want to get your initial answer to that question, I posed, Joe.
JOE DIGENOVA, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, let me say I thought we were here to discuss the legal questions, so that's what I'll do.
Mr. Fitzgerald is the one who revealed this grand jury...
BLITZER: Fitzgerald is the special counsel.
DIGENOVA: He is the one who revealed this grand jury testimony of Mr. Libby. This wasn't revealed by the defense as part of a strategy.
What happened here was Mr. Libby testified and they asked him about various discussions that he had with reporters. And he said in the course of doing that, that he had been authorized by his superiors to disclose portions of the National Intelligence Estimate. This has nothing to do with Valerie Plame, it didn't have anything to do with her identity, which Mr. Fitzgerald has said he never even investigated to determine whether or not Valerie Plame was a covert officer. At any rate, Mr. Fitzgerald has been in possession of this particular information for years.
And at his press conference he said that there were no other people at this point in his sights, including the vice president. So whoever authorized Mr. Libby to do this, they are not in any legal jeopardy, according to Mr. Fitzgerald.
BLITZER: All right. But this is what I don't understand. There are lower-ranking Pentagon officials who are -- who are prosecuted for leaking classified information. Yet -- and some of them even go to jail for doing that.
DIGENOVA: Yes.
BLITZER: And you used to prosecute these people...
DIGENOVA: Yes.
BLITZER: ... as you well know from your days as you were a U.S. attorney.
DIGENOVA: That's right.
BLITZER: So why wouldn't senior officials who authorize leaking classified information be in any legal danger?
DIGENOVA: Because they're authorized by law to declassify information and to disclose it. Those people that you're talking about who have been prosecuted were not authorized to disclose it by anyone except themselves.
Whoever his superiors Mr. Libby got permission from presumably were authorized by law to declassify.
BLITZER: Well, presumably.
DIGENOVA: Well, but Mr. Fitzgerald has been in possession of this information for three years and has not said anyone is in jeopardy of prosecution. So, for the moment, the only thing we know is that Mr. Fitzgerald thinks that it was legal. In fact, he said that in his letter.
BLITZER: It's sounds to a lot of people, though, like it's hypocritical.
BEN-VENISTE: Of course it's hypocritical.
BLITZER: It sounds like lower-level officials go to jail for leaking this information, top officials are protected.
BEN-VENISTE: Well, the thing about it is that the administration -- and this administration, in all candor, is not alone. Historically, over-classification in this town has been the rule rather than the exception. And the secrecy is often the handmaiden for incompetence and embarrassment.
Many of the things that have been revealed about which the administration, I would say, hypocritically thunders that this is endangering the national security, when it turns out only embarrassment that they're concerned with.
We went through this with 9/11. You saw how the administration tried to protect the August 6 PDB that said, you know, the attack may come in the United States.
BLITZER: But let's go back to the law, Joe.
DIGENOVA: That's a great idea, Wolf, since that's what we were invited to discuss.
BLITZER: Is there -- is there a legal double standard here?
DIGENOVA: No, of course not. Authorized disclosure is authorized disclosure. This was not a leak. If Mr. Libby was authorized by a superior to discuss parts of the National Intelligence Estimate with reporters, that is not a leak.
BEN-VENISTE: Of course it's a leak.
DIGENOVA: That is an authorized disclosure.
BLITZER: Here, let me read to you from the law.
DIGENOVA: Even if it's on background.
BLITZER: The declassification and downgrading the statute, the executive order signed March 25, 2003. It says they can declassify information, and in these cases the information should be declassified when there's a public interest.
DIGENOVA: Right.
BLITZER: "When such questions arise, they shall be referred to the agency head or the senior agency official."
DIGENOVA: Yes.
BLITZER: If this decision was made without referring to the agency, the CIA, just made by the vice president -- it's a hypothetical -- would that be legal?
DIGENOVA: Absolutely. First of all, number one, the vice president and the president are constitutional officers. The authority to declassify stems from their authority as the executive branch.
We have no evidence that this was not discussed with the CIA director or people form the...
BLITZER: That's correct.
DIGENOVA: And so, right now, Mr. Fitzgerald's letter simply says that Mr. Libby testified that he had permission from his superiors to discuss not Valerie Plame, but portions of the National Intelligence Estimate dealing with the lead-up to the war with Iraq. It was authorized, and under the law that is an authorized disclosure. It is not a leak.
BLITZER: All right.
BEN-VENISTE: That's according to Scooter Libby, of course. He didn't have all that many superiors. We haven't heard from the superiors as to whether he was...
DIGENOVA: Couldn't agree more we haven't heard from them. Couldn't agree more.
BEN-VENISTE: ... in fact authorized. But that simply begs the question on the question you posed initially, was it a leak?
Of course it was a leak. This is not the way you disclose classified information, to give it to one reporter secretly under various kinds of protections. I was only -- please identify me as a former Hill staffer and the like.
BLITZER: All right.
BEN-VENISTE: So, you know, this is not the way you would go about officially declassifying information. And that gets back to the cynicism of the way they leak information that they think will help if it's classified and are outraged when it doesn't help.
BLITZER: On that note, a relative note of an agreement between the two of you, we'll leave it.
Joe, Richard, thanks very much for joining us.
BEN-VENISTE: Thanks, Wolf.
DIGENOVA: Thank you, Wolf, very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And we're just getting word that Howard Dean has issued a scathing assessment of this new development in the CIA leak investigation. The Democratic Party chairman said this today -- and let me quote -- "when Richard Nixon misled the nation and obstructed justice, he was harming the system of justice and the respect for the presidency. But this administration has done more than that. They have leaked military secrets in a time of war in order to fulfill their political agenda."
Again, those words from the Democratic Party chairman, Howard Dean, as he spoke to the New England Press Association just a short time ago. Just ahead, stormy exchanges at the hurricane hearings on Capitol Hill. We're going to show you more of the combative testimony by the former head of FEMA. If you didn't see the hearings live on CNN earlier today, you're going to want to stick around and see some of the fireworks.
Plus, a major storm system right now moving into the Northeast. These are live pictures we're getting in from Memphis, Tennessee. The storm forecast is one of the strongest so far this winter. We're going to give you the forecast and show you who is under a blizzard watch right now. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Testy exchanges at the Senate hearings today involving the Hurricane Katrina response. There were verbal fireworks between the former FEMA Director Michael Brown and some of the lawmakers grilling him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That it was balls to the wall, and I was certainly screaming and cussing at people.
COLEMAN: But as I listen to your testimony, it says you're not prepared to kind of put a mirror in front of your face and recognize your own inadequacies, and say, you know something, I made some big mistakes.
BROWN: Senator, with all due respect, what do you want me to say? I have admitted to mistakes publicly. I've admitted to mistakes in hearings. What more, Senator Coleman, do you want from me?
COLEMAN: Well, I think...
BROWN: What do you want from me? I'm asking you.
COLEMAN: I'm saying that in fact leadership makes a difference. You didn't provide the leadership.
BROWN: Well, Senator, that's very easy for you to say sitting behind that dais, and not being there in the middle of that disaster, watching that human suffering, and watching those people dying, and trying to deal with those structural dysfunctionalities even within the federal government.
And I absolutely resent you sitting here saying that I lacked the leadership to do that, because I was down there pushing everything that I could. I've admitted to those mistakes. And if you want something else from me, put it on the table, and you tell me what you want me to admit to.
COLEMAN: A little more candor would suffice. Thank you...
BROWN: How much more -- what more -- ask me the question, Senator. Ask me the question. COLEMAN: Thank you. I think my time is up. Thank you, Madam Chair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: In assessing FEMA's response to Hurricane Katrina, who knew what when and all those questions very much at issue, and many of the digital clues, though, can be found online. Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner is joining us with more -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, here is a graphical representation of the path of Hurricane Katrina, archived at the National Weather Service online. And of course, that's interesting to look at, but you have really got to dig into the details to get to the meat of the matter.
Now, they have also archived all of their alerts and advisories online. We're going to take a look at Monday the 29th, that being a critical day. Take a look, this is 5:00 a.m. before the hurricane made landfall on the Gulf Coast. National Weather Service was saying it was extremely dangerous, that there was potential for death, and it was essentially saying that even though it wasn't a Category 5, it was still really bad.
Take a look at 11:0 a.m. afterwards. They talk about how there was a potential loss of life at risk here, freshwater flooding a major concern.
Wolf, you can basically go back and say nobody knew -- nobody didn't know how bad this was going to be.
BLITZER: Jacki, thank you very much.
Up next, right now blizzard conditions possible this weekend. It's showing right now -- snowing right now in the mid-South. More than a foot of snow forecast in some places. Where exactly is the storm heading? We're going to tell you. That's coming up.
Plus, why prosecutors may want to talk to the wife of the hockey great, Wayne Gretzky, in connection with an undercover gambling sting. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Just in time for Valentine's Day, a special gift from Mother Nature. Actually, it's an unwanted gift this weekend that will keep on giving. A load of snow falling on Tennessee and elsewhere in the Southeast right now, and the Northeast expected to get hit as well. Let's bring in our meteorologist, Jacqui Jeras. She has the bottom line. What is going on, Jacqui?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, big storm coming together here, Wolf, and it's going to be covering a lot of real estate, affecting a lot of people. We have advisories, watches and warnings posted from Arkansas, extending all the way up through the northeastern corridor, including you there in Maine. We think the brunt of this storm will be coming together tomorrow afternoon across the mid-Atlantic states. The snow has already been coming down quite heavy across parts of Tennessee, into the Memphis area. There you can see that live picture. Should be tapering off over the next couple of hours, but a good three inches is already on the ground. The snow east of there, along I-40, tough travel going as you head towards Nashville, and that's finally beginning to change over to some snowfall here.
The big snowfall totals are going to come into play for tomorrow. Cold air in place across much of the North. In fact, as it advances, we see a few flurries here across parts of the Northeast. Temperatures in the single digits and teens across parts of New England at this hour. The two meet for tomorrow.
The spine of this storm, along the I-95 corridor, and eastward, where we'll see the heaviest amounts. Blizzard watch is in effect for New York City, including Long Island. More than 12 inches of snow will be possible in eastern Long Island, and as you head on up towards Boston, Wolf, make sure you stop by the movie store before you head home tonight.
BLITZER: All right, thanks, Jacqui. I'm not heading up to Boston. I'll probably get a little snow here in Washington. Thanks very much.
Up next, an undercover sting called Operation Slapshot. We're going to show you how hockey legend Wayne Gretzky's wife could be caught up in a gambling ring. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
The wife of the hockey legend Wayne Gretzky is caught up in a probe into an alleged illegal gambling ring. The nationwide undercover sting is called Operation Slapshot.
CNN's Mary Snow is covering this story. She is joining us live from New York -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this sting was uncovered in New Jersey, and police in New Jersey say unnamed athletes and celebrities placed more than $1.7 million in illegal sports bets over a 40 day period.
One person facing charges is a coach for Wayne Gretzky's team, and it has thrown the hockey legend and his wife in the spotlight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): With a nickname like the great one and four Stanley Cup titles, Wayne Gretzky has always enjoyed royalty status in the hockey world. His actress and model wife Janet Jones Gretzky added to his fame. With questions about an alleged gambling ring involving one of his coaches and headlines like "Betzky," the hockey star is facing the sort of attention he's never had in his career.
WAYNE GRETZKY, PHOENIX COYOTES HEAD COACH: I didn't bet. It didn't happen. It's not going to happen. It hasn't happened. It's not something that I've done.
SNOW: Gretzky and his wife, Janet, have not been accused of any wrongdoing in what New Jersey police dubbed Operation Slapshot, an illegal sports gambling ring.
Gretzky's wife spokesman says she is a possible witness in the illegal betting investigation. The Associated Press reported, but CNN has not independently confirmed, that police obtained a wiretap where Gretzky asks about how his wife can avoid being implicated in the probe.
Gretzky did not answer questions about the wiretaps Thursday and spoke about his future plans.
GRETZKY: I am not going anywhere. I'm still going to coach the Phoenix Coyotes. I've done nothing wrong or nothing that has to do with any sort of along the lines of betting.
SNOW: Gretzky's wife came to her husband's defense Thursday. She released a statement saying, "At no time did I ever place a wager on my husband's behalf." She says other than the occasional horse race, her husband doesn't bet on any sports.
Among three people facing charges, including promoting gambling and money laundering, is Gretzky's assistant coach of the Phoenix Coyotes, Rick Tocchet. His lawyer says the charges are categorically false. Lawyers for all three men say they will fight the charges.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And CNN was unable to reach a representative for Wayne Gretzky today for further comment.
Now, as police continue to investigate Operation Slapshot, the National Hockey League says it's hired a former prosecutor to conduct its own investigation -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mary Snow, thank you very much for that.
Let's find out what's coming up at the top of the hour on "PAULA ZAHN NOW." That means Paula is standing by.
Hi Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf. Thanks so much.
We're going to have much more on those dramatic FEMA hearings today. I will ask Senator Norm Coleman about his very intense exchanges with FEMA's former boss, Michael Brown, as he defended his actions.
We're also going to take you beyond the headlines. What do folks in New Orleans think about Washington's endless finger pointing?
Also, using hidden cameras we're going to take you deep inside the seedy world of counterfeits and knockoffs. What's so bad about a $1500 purse that costs $20? An eye-opening report at the top of the hour.
And much to the dismay of many people who have done this unknowingly, they are helping underworld bosses and perhaps by extension even terrorists in that chain.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Paula. We'll be watching.
"PAULA ZAHN NOW" right at the top of the hour.
Still ahead, government officials keep passing the buck over Hurricane Katrina. Jack Cafferty going through your e-mail. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go right to Jack in New York -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: The first report the levees had failed in New Orleans and the city was being flooded came in at 8:30 the morning of Hurricane Katrina. That was a Monday.
The president and head of Homeland of Security said they were unaware of flooding in New Orleans until the day after the storm, Tuesday.
The question we're asking is how does the new information about the government's failure after Katrina make you feel?
Skip in Naples writes, "Hey Jack, what new information? Dub-ya was on top of everything at the ranch in Texas while his buddy Brownie was doing a heck of a job in New Orleans. Is there anything else we need to know?"
Rachel in Sacramento writes, "The new facts I have learned about what was occurring while Katrina was approaching New Orleans and Mississippi make me sick. It is sad a country so rich and powerful in so many other ways can't even prepare its people for a storm and protect them once it hits."
Irv in Kankakee, Illinois, "I don't believe it was a failure at all any longer. I think they just could not have cared less."
Janice in Philadelphia, "Embarrassed by our government, worried for our Katrina and Rita citizens and thankful that this story is kept out there by the media. Thank you."
Ivory in Salt Lake City, "Confident. We're right on the fault line here so it is good to know that if a heavily-populated area is in a potential disaster zone our government is capable of responding to and helping victims effectively months later."
And Tom in Monument, Colorado, "There is no better justification for freedom of the press than this administration. This is better than primetime" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, thanks very much. Have a great weekend. I will see you Monday.
And to our viewers, don't forget we are in THE SITUATION ROOM weekdays 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern as well as 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
Sunday on "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talk, among my guests, an exclusive with the Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen on the cartoon controversy. All of that coming up. Until then thanks very much for joining us.
Let's head over to Paula Zahn now she is in New York -- Paula.
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