Return to Transcripts main page
The Situation Room
Help On The Way To Iraq; Saddam Hussein Testifies In His Own Defense; California Denny's Restaurant Shooting; Bernard Trainor and Michael Gordon Interview; Eliot Spitzer Suing H&R Block; New Orleans College Students Help Rebuild During Spring Break
Aired March 15, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, it's 1:00 a.m. in Baghdad. More U.S. troops are on the way to Iraq right now to try to beef up security as sectarian violence rages.
A combative Saddam Hussein urges Iraqis to stop fighting among themselves and to start fighting what he calls the invaders.
What went wrong in Iraq?
It's 5:00 p.m. here in Washington, and we'll get the inside story of the invasion, the military occupation from the authors of an important new book, "Cobra II."
And it's 4:00 p.m. in New Orleans, where college students are spending spring break. Instead of going wild, they are helping a city trying to get going once again.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
They are battling insurgents and they are caught in the middle as Iraqis battle among themselves. Today, help, though, is on the way for hard-pressed U.S. troops in Iraq.
As we first reported here in THE SITUATION ROOM yesterday, reinforcements are being sent to the war zone. But is Iraq right now on the verge of a civil war?
We have a report, but we must warn you it contains some very graphic images of violence.
Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Pentagon officials insist that this dispatch of a small number of additional troops does not mean Iraq is spinning out of control.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): In the Sunni Muslim stronghold of Ramadi, 60 miles west of Baghdad, U.S. troops engage in a fierce firefight that underscores Iraq's stubborn insurgency is not close to being defeated. In fact, the U.S. is moving some 700 additional troops from Kuwait into Iraq to beef up security during upcoming Muslim holy days.
But U.S. commanders insist the small increase is only temporary, for about 30 days, and doesn't preclude cuts in U.S. troop levels later this year.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: I believe that we are not on the verge of a civil war. I believe that the sectarian issues are controllable. I believe that the government of national unity will emerge, and I believe that the Iraqi security forces will continue to improve.
MCINTYRE: The U.S. is facing a difficult mission, hunting al Qaeda terrorists while trying to win Iraqi hearts and minds. This house near Balad, north of Baghdad, was flattened in a raid and air strike that netted one suspect. But the assault also killed a number of civilians, including children.
Worried about how things are going, Congress has created a bipartisan study group to review the exit strategy led by former secretary of state James Baker and former Congressman and 9/11 Commission Co-Chairman Lee Hamilton.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The White House says it welcomes the independent review of Iraq's strategy and looks forward to the advice and insight of the panel. It's promising to facilitate travel if necessary for the group, as well as access to key people and documents -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie, thanks very much.
Back in Baghdad, Saddam Hussein took the stand at his trial today, calling the proceedings a comedy and urging Iraqis to fight the invaders, instead of one another.
Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, has the story from the Iraqi capital -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this was the 17th day in Saddam Hussein's trial. When it started off, there were no indications as to how unruly it was about to get.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON (voice-over): As he came into court, Saddam Hussein appeared down, less confident than in the past, answering questions from the judge curtly and quickly. Then the trouble began.
Hussein insisting he is still the president. The judge didn't see it that way. RAOUF ABDEL RAHMAN, CHIEF JUDGE (through translator): Listen, here you are facing criminal charges. This role has ended. Your role has ended. You are a defendant in a criminal case.
ROBERTSON: Reading from a prepared statement, the former dictator began calling on Iraqis to unite and to fight U.S. forces. The judge cut him off.
RAHMAN (through translator): What is this? How can you talk to me like this? You are here for a criminal case, killing innocent people. That is what you are here for.
SADDAM HUSSEIN, FMR. IRAQI PRESIDENT (through translator): Yesterday, 80 people were found dead in Baghdad. Aren't they innocent? Aren't they Iraqi?
RAHMAN (through translator): This is an Iraqi court. You are not here to deal with political issues.
ROBERTSON: After barely half an hour of Hussein's testimony, the judge ordered journalists out.
(on camera): This was supposed to be the day where Saddam Hussein laid out his defense, a defense much effort had gone into making public. But the trial continued for an hour and 40 minutes under a media blackout.
(voice-over): So his American lawyer, former U.S. attorney general Ramsey Clark, gave his account of what happened inside.
RAMSEY CLARK, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, his right to a public trial is being denied. He made a very powerful and effective statement about the context in which the trial was taking place.
ROBERTSON: When the trial became public again, Hussein's defense team listed 16 demands, including a response to their claim the court is illegal.
KHALIL DULAIMI, DEFENSE LAWYER (through translator): We have challenged the legality, independence and integrity of the court.
ROBERTSON: In contrast with his brother, Saddam Hussein's half- brother did offer a public defense, saying documents with his signature that indicate he was involved in executing Iraqis are forgeries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I would like to meet one person that said I arrested anyone or interrogated anyone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: When the trial reconvenes on the 5th of April, a handwriting expert will be called and Hussein and his half-brother will get more tough questioning from the prosecution -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Nic Robertson in Baghdad. Thank you very much.
What drama unfolding there today.
The U.S. military says an American soldier died today in a mortar attack southwest of Baghdad. That brings the number of U.S. fatalities in the war, almost three years now, to 2,312.
We have a developing story this hour, a shooting at a busy Denny's restaurant in Pismo Beach in the central California coast.
Let's go live to CNN's Chris Lawrence. He's watching this story for us from our L.A. bureau.
What's going on, Chris?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this has just happened within the last two hours or so. And we've now confirmed with the Pismo beach Police Department that three people were killed in that shooting. Investigators also tell us that one of those people who is dead may be the man who started shooting in the restaurant.
Two other people were injured in that shooting. They have both been taken to the hospital. The rest of the folks who work there, were eating lunch, have all been taken out of the restaurant.
Pismo Beach is about three hours north of Los Angeles. We've got a crew on the way. So we may be able to get some more information once they get on the ground there -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Chris. Thanks very much. You'll update us as we get more information.
Let's go to CNN's Zain Verjee now over at the CNN Center with a closer look at some other stories making news -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, in California today, the assassin of Robert F. Kennedy goes up for parole. Sirhan Sirhan appears before a two-member panel of the state parole board for the 13th time. If he were to be freed, it could be awkward Governor Schwarzenegger, whose wife is RFK's niece.
Sirhan gunned down the Democratic presidential frontrunner in 1968. Kennedy had just declared victory in the all-important California primary.
The west Virginia coal mine where 12 miners lost their lives in early January is back in business. Crews of the ill-fated Sago Mine began reporting for shifts at midnight. Thirteen miners became trapped after an explosion on the 2nd of January. Only one survived.
ICG, which owns the mine, says its investigation of the blast determined that it was triggered by a bolt of lightning.
Dubai Ports World is offering new details about the sale of its operations of U.S. ports to an American entity. DPW issued a statement today indicating that it's still fielding offers and hopes to have the deal wrapped up within four to six months.
Some American lawmakers have been grumbling about wanting to see specific plans to ward off any loopholes in the transfer -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Zain, very much.
Zain Verjee reporting.
Let's go back to New York. Jack Cafferty has got another question this hour -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Time flies, doesn't it, Wolf?
BLITZER: It certainly does.
CAFFERTY: "We all serve at the pleasure of the president." That was White House press secretary Scott McClellan, who may have the toughest job in the country these days, rejecting suggestions that it might be time for a staff shakeup at the White House.
Republican Senator Norm Coleman of Minnesota said yesterday that the president needs to look at making some staff changes. Coleman said the administration has developed a tin ear in working with Congress, citing the handling of Katrina, the failed Harriet Miers nomination to the Supreme Court and the collapsed Dubai ports deal.
CNN has also learned that some veteran Republicans have been trying to persuade chief of staff Andy Card to bring in at least one "adult," like a former senator, to help him reach out to leaders in Congress. But McClellan says Bush has a smart and experienced team that is fully capable.
Many of the president's top staffers have been working for him since day one when he took office more than five years ago.
So here's the question for this hour: Does the Bush White House need new blood?
E-mail us your thoughts, CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- Mr. Blitzer.
BLITZER: Thank you, Jack, very much. I'm anxious to hear what our viewers think.
Up ahead, more U.S. troops heading toward Iraq right now. Can they keep the country from descending into civil war? We're going to talk about it with "New York Times" military correspondent Michael Gordon and a retired U.S. Marine Corps lieutenant general, Bernard Trainor. They've got a powerful new book that has just come out.
Also, college students on spring break in New Orleans doing what FEMA apparently didn't do. Details of their mission of mercy to a devastated city.
Plus, she's the government lawyer whose action has thrown a key terror trial into turmoil. We're going to show you who she is and what she's done.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
In our CNN "Security Watch," government prosecutors are considering dropping efforts to seek the death penalty for confessed al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui. The case was thrown into turmoil when the judge barred key witnesses on aviation security after a government lawyer sent them transcripts of testimony.
Our senior national correspondent, John Roberts, has been looking a little bit closely at this lawyer and is joining us now live.
What's going on?
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SR. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'll tell you, Wolf, Carla Martin has got to feel like the most lonely person in the world right now. The Justice Department is livid with her. A federal judge may seek to throw her in jail. And families of 9/11 victims are feeling robbed of justice.
This once obscure government attorney has suddenly found herself in a very uncomfortable spotlight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you do it, ma'am?
ROBERTS (voice-over): She is alternately described as articulate and smart, opinionated and overbearing. So who is Carla Martin, and why did she violate a judge's order to not give witnesses prior testimony?
The attorney general was baffled.
ALBERTO GONZALES, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: You'll have to ask Carla Martin what motivated her.
ROBERTS: Here's what we know. Martin joined the Transportation Security Administration's legal department in April of 2002, following 14 years at the FAA. It was a second career. She had been a flight attendant for World Airways before getting her law degree in 1989 from American University.
The bulk of her work was litigation, representing the FAA in several lawsuits, including the Pan Am 103 case.
James Kreindler, an attorney for the Pan Am plaintiffs, remembers Martin as easy to deal with, not a bad person or a monster. Others paint a less flattering picture.
A.P. Pishevar went up against Martin in a security discrimination case. A.P. PISHEVAR, ATTORNEY: Aggressive, perhaps overzealous.
ROBERTS: Was he surprised about her conduct in the Moussaoui case?
PISHEVAR: I would have to say that I was not surprised because of my background with her.
ROBERTS: A former colleague who requested anonymity recalls Martin had "good attorney skills, but her shortcoming was she was very opinionated, very passionate, with a strong personality. People weren't sad to see her leave."
And Claudio Manmo, one of the FAA witnesses now barred from testifying told the court Martin "had a tendency to go off on tangents that really were not all that relevant and was taking up a lot of time."
According to her mother, who spoke with CNN today, Martin is "totally distraught" over what happened, "as if it were the end of the world." Jean Martin Lay (ph) says her daughter would never disobeys the court's order, though Carla Martin could not explain to her how she missed Judge Brinkema's explicit rules on witnesses.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Some people who know Martin speculate that it might have been her inexperience in criminal law that was to blame for all of this. It appears as though Martin may try to convince Judge Brinkema that she meant no harm, that she just didn't know about the order on witnesses.
But Attorneys I talked to today said not coaching witnesses is just basic law school 101 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: What a blunder. What a blunder. Terrible.
Thanks very much, John, for that report.
The Justice Department says it's shut down a child pornography Web site that featured live video of children as young as 18 months being molested. The attorney general, Alberto Gonzales, says 27 people are charged, including 13 in this country and 14 others in Canada, Australia and Britain. The arrests followed an undercover sting operation.
At the same time, efforts are now under way to try to cut off financial support for child pornography. The Center for Missing and Exploited Children is forming a coalition to crack down on credit card transactions on Web sites featuring child pornography.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERNIE ALLEN, CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: The process here is first to identify, as John Lebanoti (ph) indicated, then to give law enforcement the opportunity to initiate an investigation.
And then, thirdly, what we're going to do is alert the payment mechanism that their system is being used inappropriately, and hopefully then go -- we're developing mechanism to then reach to the merchant bank to stop the payment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton, is checking the situation online. She's joining us now live with more -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Yes, Wolf.
This effort today, it's an effort to cut off the money to online child pornographers. The Center for Missing and Exploited Children, since 1998, has been operating this cyber tip line where members of the public and Internet companies report online child pornography.
They have seen a disturbing increase in these commercial sites, sites offering pictures in exchange for credit card transactions. This is something also the government has been interested in. The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, since 2003, has been looking at a company, an overseas company in Belarus that they say conducted 100,000 such credit card transactions.
Today, major credit card companies and financial institutions joined forces with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children to put a stop to this. But they are asking for the public's help. People should report any cases they come across online of these sites offering pictures for money -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much for that, Abbi Tatton.
Coming up, we're just getting reaction in from CBS to a massive fine proposed by the government for alleged indecency. It covers more than just Janet Jackson's famous wardrobe malfunction.
We're going to have details. Stay tuned for that.
Plus, can more U.S. troops stop the sectarian violence plaguing Iraq? I'm going to ask "The New York Times" military correspondent and a retired U.S. Marine Corps lieutenant general. They've just written a powerful new book on the war in Iraq.
Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
What went wrong in Iraq? How did a seemingly stunning victory turn into what many consider now chaos?
A powerful new book may offer some answers. It's called "Cobra II: The Inside Story, the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq" as Told by Bernard Trainor -- he's a retired U.S. Marine Corps lieutenant general-turned military correspondent -- and Michael Gordon, the chief military correspondent of "The New York Times."
They gained extraordinary access to documents and decision- makers. Both men joining us now her in THE SITUATION ROOM.
First of all, congratulations to both of you for writing this important new book. I've been waiting for it for almost three years, since you were embedded, Michael, right at the beginning. I knew you were working on a book from day one.
Three years later, General, 2,300-plus Americans dead, half a trillion dollars, thousands of people -- American troops injured. A lot of the problems that are facing the U.S. military today were seen in the early days, but ignored.
By whom?
LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR (RET.), CO-AUTHOR, "COBRA II": Well, you have to understand that there were a lot of assumptions made and a lot of judgments made that turned out to be wrong. And you can't call anybody that's involved a villain, but, I mean, the planning was inadequate for the circumstances based on erroneous judgments and bad intelligence.
BLITZER: But General Wallace, who was leading the charge, he warned of this insurgency. He said take out the Saddam loyalists, the Fedayeen, don't worry that much about the so-called elite Republican Guard. He was almost fired for that.
TRAINOR: Well, I think that's making it too simple a case. Wallace recognized what all the field commanders and all the privates and the sergeants recognized, that the enemy that we anticipated fighting, the Republican Guard, with tank on tank, was not the battle that we were fighting. That the real war was against irregulars who didn't show up on any of the computer screens or in any of the other battles.
BLITZER: They were warning, though, a lot of commanders, saying, take out these guys, but there was a rush, Michael, to get into Baghdad and be very dramatic, if you will, about the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.
MICHAEL GORDON, CO-AUTHOR, "COBRA II": Yes, Wolf, there's no one factor that explains the insurgency. There were a multitude of considerations.
One was the decision to disband the army, for example, poor nation-building planning. But another was a misreading of what was happening on the battlefield. And in the early days of the war, the U.S. forces had fierce battles. I'm not sure the American public really appreciates the extent of the fighting then in Nasiriyah, Samawa, Al-Najaf. And it was against an irregular enemy that was not under direct command and control from Baghdad.
And I think if this had been better realized in Franks' command post, by Don Rumsfeld, adjustments might have been made that would have made it easier to deal with the insurgency when it emerged in the summer of 2003.
BLITZER: Here's what you write on page 498. You write, "Instead of making plans to fight a counterinsurgency, the president and his team drew up plans to bring the troops home and all but declared the war won."
Was the president not getting the right information?
GORDON: Well, the president was operating on assumptions and what he was -- the president was getting his information from General Franks. And a rather stunning development.
I was in Baghdad at the very palace when this happened. It was on April 16, one week after the fall of Baghdad.
General Franks came to Baghdad and gave guidance to his commanders to draw plans to remove the bulk of their forces by September. He didn't give them orders to withdraw, but to think -- make preparations.
And it was on the basis of these sorts of inputs that President Bush later went on the aircraft carrier, remember, and said that major combat operations had come to an end. But this was a mindset in the White House, too, not just on the part of Central Command.
BLITZER: Some say they wanted to fight this war on the cheap, not have enough troops. A half a million troops were involved, as all of us remember, in liberating Kuwait back in 1991. There was talk that maybe 350,000 would be needed for Iraq, and they went in with, what, 150,000, 200,000 troops?
TRAINOR: Originally, the figure was 385,000. But at no point did they feel that we really were going to have difficulty with the Republican Guard or the Iraqi army.
So, getting to Baghdad was not a problem. The problem was, at the end of the day, what are we going to do with the occupation in Iraq? That's where you needed the numbers.
BLITZER: Well, they assumed that there would be -- there would be a welcoming by the overwhelming majority of the Iraqi people.
TRAINOR: That's right. And there may have been that welcoming if this irregular force called the Fedayeen hadn't been embedded through all the cities and villages in the south of Iraq to keep the Shias down, because Saddam Hussein's one main concern was not an American invasion. His main concern was survival of the regime against some sort of an uprising, which may have been triggered by American actions.
BLITZER: As occurred in '91, right after the liberation.
TRAINOR: Well, that's -- that was the thing that frightened him so much.
BLITZER: That was what motivated him. Here's, Michael, what you write on page 501: "The American war plan was never adjusted on high. General Tommy Franks, who was the overall commander, never acknowledged the enemy he faced, nor did he comprehend the nature of the war he was directing. He denigrated the Fedayeen as little more than a speed bump on the way to Baghdad and never appreciated their resilience and determination."
We called his office to get some comment. There's been no reaction, as far as I can tell, from General Franks yet, unless you have some reaction to those very, very sharp words.
GORDON: Well, I tried to discuss these issues with him before writing these words, but -- and he didn't want to talk about it at that point either. But, you know, look, I have talked to a lot of senior people who were involved in the planning.
Here's a -- it wasn't General Franks alone. I think Secretary Rumsfeld is also part of this decision-making process.
As U.S. forces are going to Baghdad, having encountered the Fedayeen, having experienced a very different fight than they had anticipated, Secretary Rumsfeld, General Franks did tell me on the record in 2004, pressed to off-ramp, as they put it, cancel the deployment of the 1st Cavalry Division.
We have not yet secured Baghdad, we haven't secured Iraq. And yet, the secretary of defense was pushing to cancel this division.
General Franks went along with it. And it was a very unwelcome development for the senior American commanders in Iraq.
BLITZER: Was it your opinion -- and I know this is hard for one general to criticize another general, but give us your honest assessment. General, was it your opinion that General Franks couldn't stand up to the defense secretary?
TRAINOR: The defense secretary had a unique management arrangement. He would just bear down on people, keep asking them questions. Sometimes unrelated to the issue at hand. And I think essentially he wore down General Franks. He wore down everybody that he dealt with.
Now, within the military, there is the culture, when you have an issue, it's out on the table, you discuss it, you debate it. But when your civilian master makes a decision, you salute and say, aye-aye. I'll do the best I can to make it work.
I think there was an awful lot involved with the relationship between Franks and the field commanders, including General Franks. But I will say this. I think the military, given their knowledge, should have pushed back harder against some of the decisions that Rumsfeld made.
BLITZER: OK. Let me read from another section of the book, Michael. "In their own way, Rumsfeld and the U.S. administrator, Paul Bremer, each contributed to the security problem. Rumsfeld limited the number of American troops in Iraq, and Bremer limited the number of Iraqi forces that were immediately available. The two decisions combined to produce a much larger security vacuum."
This is referring to Bremer's decision, in effect, to let the Iraqi army disband, even the so-called good guys.
GORDON: Right.
I mean, what happened was, Secretary Rumsfeld, he wanted, basically, an in-and-out war. He didn't want -- he was trying to avoid a prolonged occupation by limiting the number of American forces. Then, Ambassador Bremer came in and decided to disband the Iraqi army.
The army had gone to ground, but he wouldn't even let them come back. And the combination of these two separate decisions, combined, meant there simply weren't enough American troops and -- and Iraqi troops working with us to control the country.
That, plus the fact there was no electricity, no law and order, this was the environment in which the insurgency first began to grow. And, you know, Wolf, in the summer of 2003, when I was there, almost all the senior commanders that I spoke to thought there was a window of opportunity at that point in Iraq to put Iraq on a different course, an opportunity that was essentially lost, and we have been trying to dig ourselves out of this hole ever since.
BLITZER: General Trainor, a lot of Pentagon types have said to me over the years: You know what? We didn't disband the Iraqi army. They disbanded themselves. They simply melted away and -- as the U.S. and coalition forces were moving toward Baghdad.
TRAINOR: Well, that was the argument.
But we made no attempt to keep them together, although there was a working plan between some of the Iraqis, particularly those who had been -- left the country and come back -- we had the records of all the Iraqi military forces -- that there was a plan to reconstitute and de-Baathify the senior leadership of the Iraqi army and make use of them.
But that was undercut by the decision on the part of Bremer and others to disband the army. They said, well, they had disbanded themselves, that -- yes, to a certain degree, with the fighting going on. But they sure came back for their paychecks.
So, they were easily...
(LAUGHTER)
TRAINOR: ... to put back into uniform and put back to work. But that was not part of the idea. The -- part of the idea was to get rid of them all and reconstitute a brand new Iraqi army, de-Baathified, that it was going to take about three years to do it.
It totally -- was totally unrealistic, once again, another part of the misjudgments and presumptions that were wrong in planning for the war, and particularly the post-war period.
BLITZER: I'm going to have both of you gentlemen please stand by, because I have a lot more questions, including weapons of mass destruction, intelligence failures, and what happens from here. What about this prospect of a civil war three years into this war?
Gentlemen, stand with us -- more of our interview with Lieutenant General Bernard Trainor and Michael Gordon, as more U.S. troops are heading toward Iraq right now, 700 of them from Kuwait. Is this a good idea? We are going to get more of the inside story, the invasion, the occupation, from the authors of this important new book.
Plus, how they cooked the books at Enron -- an ex-executive testifies about what she saw and how she tried to blow the whistle on one of the biggest-ever scandals.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Back now to the inside story of the war in Iraq, from invasion through the occupation. My guests, the author of "Cobra II," Michael Gordon of "The New York Times" and retired U.S. Marine Corps Lieutenant General Bernard Trainor.
The intelligence failures on WMD were almost, what, eye-popping.
TRAINOR: Yes.
Well, you have to remember, Wolf, that most of the people, not only in the United States, but the intelligence communities worldwide, felt that this guy had -- did have WMD.
BLITZER: But they were relying on U.S. intelligence...
(CROSSTALK)
TRAINOR: Well, they also had their own sources.
But this fellow was so clever. I mean, he withstood 12 years of sanctions, for the -- for the purpose of having people doubt whether he had nuclear weapons or not. He called it deterrence by deception. And the name of the game was not the United States. It wasn't Israel. It was Iran.
BLITZER: He was trying to convince Iran he had...
TRAINOR: He was afraid of Iran.
BLITZER: ... weapons of mass destruction...
(CROSSTALK) BLITZER: ... to deter them. And, also, he was worried about his internal -- he never told his own generals, Michael...
TRAINOR: Exactly.
BLITZER: ... that he didn't have the WMD.
GORDON: Well, he finally had to break the news to them -- and it didn't go down very well -- in an episode that we have in the book, which is derived from the Iraq Survey Group, which was sponsored by the CIA, after-action report on the war.
He goes to see his generals in December 2002. He says: Well, we don't have any WMD.
They are, of course, quite upset to learn about this. They were, in fact, counting on it, in case they had to fight the Americans. And one of the funny episodes is that the Bush administration continues to insist they have it, and the Bush administration is so persistent in this that some of the Iraqis go, well, maybe we do have it. The Americans must know something.
BLITZER: We are almost out of time.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: What's going to happen in Iraq?
TRAINOR: Well, we don't know. Nobody can foretell.
I mean, whether it goes into a civil war or not, we have a sectarian war going on right now. Now, whether this tumbles into a full-scale civil war, I don't know. But...
BLITZER: Are you upbeat or pessimistic?
TRAINOR: I'm about 50/50 on the thing.
This is a little bit -- the U.S. is a little bit like the cop on the beat dealing with a domestic dispute, a very dangerous situation.
BLITZER: Were you -- are you upbeat or pessimistic?
GORDON: Well, you know, I have seen so many sacrifices made for this war during the five months I was embedded, I just want to hope that something positive comes out of this.
BLITZER: The book is called "Cobra II: The Inside Story of the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq."
Michael Gordon, Bernard Trainor, thanks very much for writing the book. And thanks for coming in to THE SITUATION ROOM.
TRAINOR: Thank you, Wolf.
GORDON: Thank you. BLITZER: Still to come, there's a brand-new poll out this hour on the president's job approval rating. Guess what? More bad news for the president. We are going to fill you in.
Also, she had the wardrobe malfunction seen around the world. But that's not all that is behind a proposed fine against CBS. We are going to show you what the federal government has planned right now.
And this note -- coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, the bird flu threat, we're going to talk about it with the health and human services secretary, Mike Leavitt. He will join us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: More evidence of President Bush's political troubles -- a new NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll just out this hour finds the president's approval rating at 35 percent. That's an all-time low. In that poll, 61 percent of those questioned disapproved of his job performance.
And Mr. Bush has hit another all-time low in another new poll out today -- his approval rating down in that one to 33 percent. That's in the just-released Pew survey.
Our CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll that came out earlier in the week had the president with a low in that poll of 36 percent. Numbers -- our numbers came out on Monday.
Lou Dobbs is here in Washington today, in THE SITUATION ROOM.
I know what you are working on. But give us your thoughts. You spent a lot of time on the ports controversy. You think that debacle contributed to these low numbers for the president?
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: I could not imagine, Wolf, them not contributing to these low numbers.
The administration is trying to deal with approval numbers, trying to come up with new messages and approaches. It's pretty clear -- and I'm going to upset every Republican watching us right now -- these are Nixonian numbers. These are numbers that are saying to this president, as clearly as it can be said, it is time to address policies and to begin communicating with the American people.
These are troubling numbers, not only for this White House, but for all of us.
BLITZER: Well, so, what does he need to do right now?
DOBBS: I -- he has to change policy, the issues of illegal immigration, which is one of the reasons that I'm here today, border security, port security, Iraq. This president and his top advisers have got to come together and put together policies that are working.
When you look at those numbers, and people -- I mean, our poll looks generous for the president, 36 percent. When a president reaches these levels, it is time not to talk, in my opinion, simply about changing the players at the periphery. This is a time to focus on policy and to reexamine that alignment between the American people, the people who put this man in office, their interests, and his performance.
BLITZER: Tell us what you are going to be doing on your show.
DOBBS: We're going to be focusing tonight on the latest on the Dubai ports deal. We are going to be focusing on the latest efforts by Congress to come to terms with border security and illegal immigration.
And we will be dealing with that, as well as political analysis by three of the country's best political analysts on what this president should be doing and what this Congress should be doing.
BLITZER: Good to have you in Washington, Lou.
DOBBS: Great to be with you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Come visit us more often.
DOBBS: Thank you for letting me in this...
BLITZER: And I will come visit you in New York.
DOBBS: You got a deal.
BLITZER: Lou Dobbs coming up at the top of the hour.
Zain Verjee is coming up right now. She's at the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at other stories making news.
Hi, Zain.
VERJEE: Hi. I want to come visit, too.
BLITZER: You can.
(LAUGHTER)
VERJEE: OK. Thank you.
More on a developing story out of California, Wolf -- a short while ago, in Pismo Beach, California, a man opened fire inside a Denny's restaurant crowded with lunch-hour customers. Police say two people were killed and two were wounded before the shooter turned the gun on himself and took his own life. Police say that they don't know the motive for the shooting.
Tensions are high at this hour in Serbia. The body of the former Serbian President and war crimes suspect Slobodan Milosevic arrived in Belgrade from the Netherlands today.
Milosevic supporters are now locked in a standoff with the government over plans for his funeral. Supporters want a large public ceremony, while the government has ruled out a state funeral and wants to downplay the event.
Now, do you remember this, Janet Jackson's -- this, right -- her infamous wardrobe malfunction? Well, yes, just a short while ago, the FCC upheld a fine of more than half-a-million dollars against 20 CBS stations for that Super Bowl halftime broadcast two years ago and also levied a record $3.6 million in new fines against the network and its affiliates for an episode of "Without a Trace," which it deemed indecent.
The FCC says it has received more than 300,000 complaints concerning almost 50 broadcasts by CBS between 2002 and 2005 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Who can forget that wardrobe malfunction?
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: Zain, thank you very much.
Let's go to New York. Ali Velshi is standing by with the "Bottom Line" -- Ali.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Wolf.
The nation's biggest tax preparation company is in hot water. New York's attorney general, Eliot Spitzer, is suing H&R block for $250 million. Spitzer says the company steered hundreds of thousands of its clients into something called the express IRA.
Now, that paid a very low interest rate. And Spitzer says that 85 percent of those clients ended up paying more in maintenance and other fees than they earned in interest. H&R block says that nearly 600,000 people opened these express IRAs as part of a tax-saving strategy, and that, when you include what they saved on their taxes, 78 percent of them did better than they would have if they hadn't opened an express IRA.
This is a civil suit. It's not a criminal indictment. Spitzer wants the money returned to the account-holders.
Now, accounting just -- the words are accounting just doesn't get that creative. That's the testimony of former Enron executive Sherron Watkins, on the stand at the Enron trial today in Houston. Back in 2001, she worked for then chief financial officer Andy Fastow.
Now, Fastow is thought of by some people as the mastermind behind many of those complicated financial transactions that led to Enron's undoing. He pled guilty long ago.
But Sherron Watkins didn't have her hand in the cookie jar. In fact, Watkins sent an anonymous memo to the then chairman of Enron, Ken Lay, warning him that Enron would implode in a wave of accounting scandals.
Then, she warned him in person, but said that Lay didn't seem to understand the gravity of the situation. Watkins, along with two other women, was named "TIME" magazine's 2002 person of the year. The fact that she's one of the few key government witnesses who isn't implicated in the collapse of Enron gives her some credibility.
So far, the court has heard from several former Enron executives, although many of them are testifying, in the hopes of getting reduced sentences for the roles they may have played in the collapse of Enron.
So, Sherron Watkins, as they say Wolf, is clean.
Tell you about markets. They closed higher, a new high for the year again. The Dow closed 58 points higher, to 11209, the NASDAQ about 16 points higher, to 2311 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ali, with the "Bottom Line" -- thanks, Ali. See you here at the 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour as well.
Just ahead, five years after the Bush team moved in, some -- moved in, some say it's time for a major shakeup over at the White House. Up next, Jack Cafferty is back with his question of the hour: Does the Bush White House need new blood? Your answers coming up.
Also coming up, spring break in the Big Easy -- students swing in for a little downtime. So, where is the party? Not happening. We are going to tell you what is.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: When we think of spring break, it typically conjures up images of college students on the beach, cruising the Miracle Mile, doing a lot of heavy-duty partying. In New Orleans, thousands of students are putting a new spin on their mid-semester downtime. They are going from hitting the books to trying to rebuild the city.
CNN's Susan Roesgen is joining us now live with more -- Susan.
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN GULF COAST CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Wolf.
I'm at the base camp for 2,000 spring-breakers who have decided to come here, instead of Cancun or the Miracle Mile, to go to work. Now, a lot of them have come back today from gutting houses. This is the line for the guys for the outdoor showers.
And then, over here, we have the line for the ladies for the outdoor showers. And then, tonight, everyone will eat here and stay here in a warehouse that they have turned into temporary housing.
Somehow, Wolf, this group of college students has managed to do something in just a few days that the government hasn't done here in six months.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROESGEN (voice-over): They could be lying on a Florida beach, but these kids are camped out on cots. It's a college church group that wouldn't take no for an answer. They wanted a base of operations to help rebuild the area.
And when FEMA offered to find room for 200 students, the students found this warehouse instead and made room for 2,000. They found a way to rig running water, brought in their own food, and, in a place where most people don't have electricity, let there be light.
Through sheer determination, this young group of aid workers has descended on New Orleans, more than 10,000 students over five weeks, and they are here to help. They may not be skilled workers, but they are hard workers. And for homeowner Kim David, that's what counts. Ripped off by contractors who took her money and never came back, Kim stood in awe watching a miracle.
KIM DAVID, NEW ORLEANS HOMEOWNER: As bad as Katrina was, this is how good it is, to make you feel like, yes, we still have Americans that love and care, complete strangers, and step up to the plate and help.
RUTH GILLIAM, STUDENT VOLUNTEER: I feel like we're only here for a couple days, and we're making like this much of a difference, but it's a huge difference to her.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROESGEN: And these kids are making a difference for a lot of people here, Wolf, who have been waiting for insurance money, for a FEMA trailer, for any kind of government loan, and really didn't have any help until these students got here. The lord works in mysterious ways, Wolf.
BLITZER: Well, thank them on -- on behalf of all of us.
Susan, thank you very much.
Up next, does the Bush White House need new blood? It's our question of the hour. Jack Cafferty is standing by with your e-mail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the "Hot Shots" coming in from our friends over at the AP, pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow.
Baghdad: Saddam Hussein takes the stand and argues with the judge. Instead of defending himself against charges of crimes against humanity, Saddam urges Iraqis to unite against Americans.
Jericho on the West Bank: An armed militant jumps through burning tires during a protest against the Israeli raid of a Palestinian jail.
In England: fallen horse. This jockey takes a tumble during the Coral Cup Handicap Hurdle. Bombay, India: Children play with colored water during celebrations, marking the arrival of spring -- today's "Hot Shots," pictures often worth 1,000 words.
Jack Cafferty's words are often powerful -- Jack.
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Wolf.
The White House today rejected suggestions that it might be time for a staff shakeup. Republican Senator Norm Coleman of Minnesota said yesterday the president needs to look at making some staff changes.
Many of Mr. Bush's top aides have been working for him since the day he took office five years ago.
So, the question we asked is, does the Bush White House need new blood?
Nancy writes from Idaho: "The new blood needed at the White House cannot be replaced by hiring new advisers, counselors, assistants, et cetera. The people who need to be replaced are the president and vice president. They were elected because the voters thought they could lead. They were not elected with the hope they could pick good advisers. If they have not shown great leadership so far, it will not happen."
Peter in Iowa: "These guys don't need any fresh blood. They get it every night when they fly out the White House windows to bite the necks of the American body politic."
Zach in Scarsdale: "Any change will be merely cosmetic. There's no way that Bush, Cheney and Rove would allow anyone other than themselves to call the shots."
Jennifer in Kansas City: "Yes, but, unfortunately, it won't handle soon enough or involve the right people. Everyone at the White House is out of touch with most of the rest of the country, and it's hard to find a good example of leadership there."
Jeremy writes: "A changing of the guard would be a great idea. Sports teams do it all the time when things are not going well."
And Jack in New York writes: "They should be replace by the 'Sesame Street' staff. Even better, bring in Tony Soprano's Uncle Junior. Even though Junior is in decline, he would be an improvement."
You watch "The Sopranos," don't you, Wolf?
BLITZER: Yes. Junior, he's in deep trouble.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: I saw what he did...
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: He's hiding in a closet.
BLITZER: Junior has got some serious problems.
I don't think that's the kind of new blood they need, though.
CAFFERTY: No, maybe not. You're right.
BLITZER: Not Junior.
CAFFERTY: OK.
BLITZER: Maybe Tony.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: Thanks, Jack.
CAFFERTY: If Tony makes it -- he may not make it.
BLITZER: Well, he will make it. He will make it -- got some more episodes to come.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: We are here in THE SITUATION ROOM, weekdays, 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern, back in one hour, 7:00 p.m. Eastern -- among my guests, the health secretary, Mike Leavitt. We will talk about bird flu.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
