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The Situation Room
Undercover Federal Investigators Test Border Security; Senate Panel Approves Bill With Guest Worker Program
Aired March 27, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, it's 7:00 p.m. here in Washington, where we have breaking news on a national security lapse involving nuclear terrorism. Word at this hour that undercover federal investigators smuggled into this country enough radio active material to make two dirty bombs just as the Congress and the White House debate how to protect America's borders.
It's 7:00 p.m. in Alexandria, Virginia, where confessed al Qaeda terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui makes some stunning new admissions. What did he know about the 9/11 plot and what was his own role in a plot to strike the White House?
It's 4:00 p.m. in Los Angeles, one of many American cities where they're in the streets right now over illegal immigration as calls for a crackdown have Republican lawmakers facing a family feud.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
We begin with breaking news, a startling breach of the nation's security. If a terrorist wanted to smuggle in radioactive materials to build a dirty bomb, how difficult would it be? There's a new disturbing report that is just out that says it would not be hard at all.
Let's go get details.
Brian Todd standing by in the newsroom -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, one congressional staffer says this report shows that it's easier to get radiological material than it is to get cold medicine. We have just gotten a copy of it and there's one finding in here that is especially disturbing.
The report from the Government Accountability Office says two teams of federal investigators were able to smuggle across the U.S. border enough radioactive sources to make two dirty bombs. According to this GAO report, the investigators posed as employees of a fictitious company. They brought what's characterized as a small quantity of radioactive material from an unnamed commercial source, and they used fake documents to get it across the border.
Congressional sources say this happened sometime between July and December of last year. The investigators entered the U.S. at two checkpoints on what we are told are the northern and southern borders, but neither the report nor congressional sources we spoke to say exactly where.
This report was given to reporters ahead of congressional hearings set to begin tomorrow on what the federal government has done to protect the country against nuclear terrorism. We have tried to reach a spokesman for Department of Homeland Security tonight. We were unable to reach him.
We did contact, however, a spokesman for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, whose documents were faked in this operation. He said their agency disagree with the GAO about the risks posed by the operation.
The NRC spokesman said the materials smuggled in were "way down the ladder in terms of their risk." But he did say they are concerned about the ability to counterfeit an NRC document. And the agency is taking steps to address that -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian, thank you very much.
Let's talk a little bit more about these disturbing findings in this new report.
Joining us is our CNN security analyst, Clark Kent Ervin. He's a former inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security.
How big of a deal potentially, Clark, is this?
CLARK KENT ERVIN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, this is the ultimate nightmare, Wolf. And of course this report tonight comes against a backdrop of years of reports of government investigators being able to sneak guns and knives and conventional bombs past airport screeners. But this is the first report I'm aware of, of where materials for a dirty bomb were sneaked into the United States, and it couldn't be more troubling and disturbing. It just goes to show how little has been accomplished since 9/11 in terms of securing our borders against the ultimate catastrophe.
BLITZER: It looks as if they were smuggled in this -- in this report from Canada, as well as from Mexico.
ERVIN: That's exactly right. Now, of course in the context of this immigration debate that we're having now, our attention has been turned largely to the southern border, the border with Mexico. But this points off that we're equally vulnerable to penetration from the northern border.
If anything, because less attention tends to be paid with our border with Canada, there is arguably a greater risk there. After all, in 1999, you'll recall Ahmed Ressam attempted to sneak into the United States, did attempt to sneak in to the United States from the Canadian border, and he was planning to blow up the Los Angeles airport. Fortunately, he was caught by very -- very good border inspectors there.
BLITZER: What's worrying about this, Clark, is that this happens now, what, almost five years after 9/11. You would think that the borders would be much better protected for this kind of a smuggling operation.
ERVIN: That's exactly right, and it show that it -- there is a long, long way to go before we are as secure as we can be. The one thing that President Bush and Senator Kerry agreed on, you'll recall, in the 2004 election is that the number one threat to this country is nuclear terrorism.
Generally, we think that the greatest risk is nuclear materials smuggled in to our seaports. But the fact that this report is out shows that we're very vulnerable at our land borders as well.
BLITZER: Is there a structural problem here, Clark? What needs to be done?
ERVIN: Well, there are a number of things.
First of all, the Department of Homeland Security has been under- funded from day one. I say that as a conservative who typically does not argue for more government spending. But we need significantly more money to harden the borders, to get the kind of nuclear radiation detection equipment at land borders, sea borders and airports that we need to detect this kind of activity.
Furthermore, as this manifestly shows, the department has been very, very lax in getting to the bottom of fictitious documents. Fictitious documents apparently were used here to enter the country. So there's a lot more work to be done.
BLITZER: Clark Kent Ervin, our security analyst, former inspector general at the Department of Homeland Security.
Clark, thank you very much.
Once again, a new GAO report, a Government Accountability Office report, suggesting that they managed, federal investigators, to smuggle in radiological material into the United States from Canada and Mexico, enough material potentially to build two -- two dirty bombs.
We're going to have a lot more discussion on this. Lou Dobbs is standing by, as well as the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson.
Let's move on, though, to another developing story, a related story we're following tonight. A story that hits at the heart of America's security fears.
Thousands of Americans in the border states and beyond are outraged by immigration measures now before Congress. On Capitol Hill just a short while ago, the Senate Judiciary Committee approved an immigration reform bill ad set the stage for tomorrow's historic floor debate.
The panel voted to include a controversial guest worker program promoted by President Bush and opposed by many Republicans. Mr. Bush tried today to put a friendlier face on the immigration battle that's dividing the public. It's also dividing his own party.
CNN's Peter Viles is standing by in Los Angeles. Suzanne Malveaux is over at the White House. But Dana Bash's is following all the latest developments on Capitol Hill.
What is the very latest, Dana?
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the very latest is just as you described, Wolf. The Senate Judiciary Committee approved a bill and will send it to the Senate floor. And they will take it up as early as tomorrow. And the headline there is that this bill does allow about 11 million illegal workers to go on a path that could lead to permanent citizenship in the United States.
And what was interesting is that it was four Republicans who joined eight Democrats to get this through the committee. So must of the Republicans on the committee voted against this. This is not something that happens very often in the Republican-led Congress, but it certainly is -- illustrates what kind of divisive issue this is, particularly when it comes to Republicans.
As we've been talking about all day, Wolf, the fact that many conservatives are outraged about the fact that they think that this particular bill that passed the Senate Judiciary Committee is nothing short of amnesty.
Now, on the other hand, you have the Republicans who support this, and, of course, Democrats, saying that it is not that at all, that people will -- involved in this will have to go to back of the line and work their way towards citizenship, and that they are simply giving a nod to the reality that there are a lot of jobs in this country that Americans simply will not do.
But this is just the beginning of a very long debate, Wolf, and it will start on the Senate floor tomorrow. And it very well could end up that what we see now won't -- won't end up coming out of the full Senate. And even more importantly, it is a big question mark whether anything will get to the president's desk, especially in this election year.
BLITZER: Dana, thanks very much.
And we'll have extensive coverage here in THE SITUATION ROOM of this debate that begins tomorrow on the Senate floor.
Let's go over to the White House right now. The political stakes for President Bush with the immigration battle raging significant, very significant.
Let's bring in our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne. SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, of course this is critical for the president. Republican strategists saying, on the one hand, this is a good deal, it offers, of course, a guest worker program the president wants. But it goes one step too far for the president's comfort, offering perhaps amnesty.
And the president really walking a fine line there. A big risk for this president, who either may isolate his conservative base or a more important or equally important group, that is the Hispanic community.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On oath...
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: On oath...
MALVEAUX (voice over): Veronica Pacheco, mother, caterer, now U.S. citizen.
VERONICA PACHECO, NEW AMERICAN CITIZEN: And my mom came to the United States 20 years ago. And she came with one dream, seeing us all together in the United States.
MALVEAUX: A dream that's now come true, with the president of the United States telling her story.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Veronica first came to the United States from Bolivia 15 years ago.
MALVEAUX: Now she and her mother cater special events at the White House. Today, Veronica and several dozen other immigrants were used as a backdrop for President Bush's push for Congress to support his controversial guest worker program, a program which would allow illegal immigrants to temporarily work in jobs Americans refuse.
BUSH: Nobody benefits when the illegal immigrants live in the shadows of society.
MALVEAUX: But facing strong opposition to the program from his own party, the president has recently changed tactics, putting more emphasis on measures aimed at beefing up border security. But some Republican proposals have outraged a key voting bloc Mr. Bush has been porting, Hispanics.
BUSH: Vamos a ganar en Noviembre.
MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush recaptured the White House in 2004 with a 25 percent increase in the Latino vote.
RON BROWNSTEIN, POLITICAL ANALYST: What many Republicans fear is that if the party consolidates around an enforcement-only approach that is seen as harsh, it will undo the gains that he has made in the last few years.
MALVEAUX: Particularly in key battleground States where Hispanics have become a strong political force, like Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Texas and California.
For Veronica the immigration debate is very personal.
PACHECO: Because my mom came many years ago. And I know she was illegal at the beginning.
MALVEAUX: And now with citizenship Veronica will become a voter. But she is uncertain her loyalties lie with the Republicans.
PACHECO: I plan to vote, but I don't follow politics yet. You know, I have to learn more and see which is going to be my party.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And President Bush certainly hopes that it will be his party, the Republican Party. GOP strategists say that they learned an important lesson back in California's governor race in 1994. Governor Pete Wilson, he supported Proposition 187, denying services to illegal immigrants. He won that election, that reelection, but Wolf, many people believe that it ultimately crippled the party -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Suzanne, thank you very much.
There were protests across the country against some of the proposed immigration plans. A group including clergy members took part in the demonstration on Capitol Hill. Thousands of people took part in a march in Detroit. It followed a route from the city's southwest side, home to many Latin immigrants, to the downtown area.
And in Los Angeles, thousands of students walked out of class to join protests, including some that blocked the city's notoriously clogged freeway.
CNN's Peter Viles is joining us now from L.A. with more.
We see a lot of people behind you, Peter. Where are you?
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are just on the steps -- or just near the steps, Wolf, of city hall. And still a developing situation here. I'll take you back to the beginning of the day.
Roughly 20,000 kids boycotted classes today and took to the streets in a series of impromptu marches against the Sensenbrenner bill and for amnesty for illegal -- illegal aliens.
Now, about 4,000 or to 5,000 of those kids ended up here at city hall, in many cases marching several miles to get here. And through the afternoon the crowd had dwindled and appeared to be running out of steam about a half an hour ago, and then the tenor here changed. A little more ominous in the last half-hour.
The mayor came out and tried to give these kids a pat on their back and said (INAUDIBLE) -- and said you've done a wonderful thing now, you've made your point, it's time for you all to go home and go back to school tomorrow. This is the mayor speaking to the kids about a half hour ago. That fired the kids up, as you can see. This is firing the kids up.
(INAUDIBLE) rally here, Wolf. I think I'm going to throw it back to you, Wolf, because we have some uninvited guests here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
BLITZER: All right. Thanks very much, Peter, for that. We could hear you, but barely.
Let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty, we can certainly hear him.
We always hear you, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, I don't know how you mean that, Wolf. You want to explain that?
BLITZER: We hear you loud and clear.
CAFFERTY: I like Peter's line, we have uninvited guests in THE SITUATION ROOM.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair says the anti-Americanism in parts of Europe is "madness." Mr. Blair spoke to Australia's parliament today, pledging to keep British troops in Iraq and Afghanistan until both those countries are stabilized.
He also said, "I do not always agree with the United States. Sometimes they can be difficult friends to have. But the strain of, frankly, anti-American feeling in parts of European and world politics is madness when set against the long-term interests of the world we believe in. We need them involved. We want them engaged."
So, here's the question: Is the United States a difficult friend for other nations to have? E-mail us at caffertyfile@cnn.com, or go to cnn.com/caffertyfile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much.
We're following breaking news we reported at the top of the hour. A federal investigation has managed to come up with two -- two dirty bombs in the United States, smuggled potentially from both Canada and Mexico. They conducted this exercise, a very disturbing report.
Lou Dobbs is standing by for some analysis, as well as the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson.
Also coming up, a plot to fly a fifth plane on September 11 right into the White House. A man on trial for those attacks stuns the courtroom, the country, perhaps even his own lawyers. We're going to have details.
Also, secret war memo. How far was President Bush willing to go to start a war in Iraq? There are some explosion new allegations.
All of that coming up right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're following a breaking news story that we reported right at the top of the hour. Two teams of federal investigators managed to smuggle in radioactive radiological material into the United States from the border with Canada, the border with Mexico, enough material they say -- they say, to build two dirty bombs right here in the United States.
The immigration debate coming at this time. It's certainly raging on Capitol Hill. It's also raging in protests on the streets of the country.
Joining us now in THE SITUATION ROOM to discuss this late- breaking development, as well as the overall immigration debate are two guests, Lou Dobbs and the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson.
Governor Richardson, I assume you can hear me OK. Are you there?
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: Yes, I can hear you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Governor.
First of all, what do you make of this investigation? Fake documents were used to smuggle in radioactive radiological sources, as they're called, to build two dirty bombs from Mexico and Canada.
RICHARDSON: Well, it shows that dirty bombs are just as big a problem as loose nukes in Russia, that the key message here is that we have to ensure that our border is secure. And this is why we need more Border Patrol agents, more detection equipment, more radioactive detection equipment, aerial monitors.
This is very serious. And it's not just Mexico, it's Canada. So it shows that dirty bombs, terrorists can move beyond borders. And just the security expenses that we need at the border for this detection equipment is crucial, especially now during this immigration debate.
BLITZER: There was a report commissioned by Senator Norm Coleman. And it was done by the Government Accountability Office, the GAO.
Lou, are you surprised that they managed to smuggle this kind of material in from both the north and the south?
LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT:" Well, we do call the reporting that we've been doing for some number of years now, Wolf, "Broken Borders." We say borders, advisedly, because it is two borders that are broken.
They're absolutely porous. Of course most of the illegal immigration takes place on the southern border, 97 percent of it, in point of fact. But, both borders. And it's important to note that they came through ports of entry on those borders. They did not cross the border where we had no protection, which is the vast majority of both borders.
We're looking at a Homeland Security Department, Wolf, Governor, that is in every respect nothing more than a sham. We're talking about four and a half years after 9/11, we're not checking for radiological materials in our ports. We are not sealing our borders and controlling our borders.
This is a sham being perpetrated on the American people. And I pray -- I pray that we don't have another terrorist attack, because what we have done in creating vulnerability for the American people here is inexcusable. It is, in my judgment, criminal.
BLITZER: All right. Let's move on and talk about what's being debated on Capitol Hill right now.
The Senate Judiciary Committee, Governor, just passed some legislation that would include guest workers, a program for guest workers in the United States. There's been criticism, including Tom Tancredo, a Republican of Colorado, who says this: "When you reward millions and millions of people for coming across the border the wrong way, doing it illegally, then you -- it's a slap in the face to every single person who's done it the right way. It's bad policy."
You support this guest worker program, which many argue would simply be another form of amnesty.
RICHARDSON: Well, I don't believe it's amnesty. I think there are a lot of benchmarks that require, for instance, the illegal worker to show paying back taxes, civic responsibility, paying fines, learning English, participating in civic responsibility. It's not going to be perfect. But the alternative really is, what are we going to do?
Are we going to deport them? There's 11 million of them. And I believe the best solution is one that includes very strong border enforcement. I think that's critical.
And just to support Lou in what he said, I was promised 265 Border Patrol agents in the New Mexico border after I declared a border emergency and I'm still waiting. So we really need the Homeland Security Department to be more active.
I believe what the Senate did, the committee, is realistic. It's along the lines of what the president supported. Whether it survives, I'm concerned that it won't.
BLITZER: All right.
RICHARDSON: One new element that I believe needs to happen is Mexico needs to step up. Mexico needs to do a lot more in terms of...
BLITZER: All right. Let me let Lou -- Governor, let me Lou weigh in on this whole guest worker provision that's now been supported not only by the president, by the Senate Judiciary Committee.
What do you make of this, Lou?
DOBBS: Well, again, this is more about obfuscation than it is about resolution of a crisis. The fact is we have visa programs that are already in place that could be expanded appropriately for whatever corporate America wants. But corporate America has chosen through its absolute sway over both the Republican and the Democratic Party to continue to export illegal labor.
We do not have secure -- border security isn't even on the table in the judiciary committee. In point of fact, this is nothing more than a pay for citizenship program for guest workers. We don't need guest workers.
BLITZER: But what would you do, Lou -- what would you do with those 11 or 12 million illegal immigrants here in the country?
DOBBS: Well, I think that the answers could come very fast and -- fast and furious, Wolf. I don't think you need to do much of anything, in point of fact.
You heavily penalize and punish illegal employers. Secondly, you begin to deal with the issue where it rests. And that is with a Congress and a president who have chosen to ignore the middle class working people in this country and their families and those -- the Pew Hispanic Center reported what Cesar Chavez -- and I want to repeat this -- on Cesar Chavez Day, Cesar Chavez fought against illegal immigration because he understood that the first people to pay for illegal immigration were the Hispanic workers at the lowest level of the wage chain in this country.
It continues to this day. And it's unconscionable.
And first, we have to have border security before we can even talk about controlling immigration. And we have to control immigration before we can talk about reforming. This is a joke.
BLITZER: Do you believe -- Governor, do you believe that children of illegal immigrants in the United States should automatically be granted citizenship since they're born here in the United States?
RICHARDSON: Not necessarily. I think you can set up a bunch of benchmarks that deal with, what do you do with the 11 million? I think you have to be practical. You also have to be compassionate.
Many of these workers are paying taxes. They're doing jobs Americans don't want to do. They're participating in civic responsibilities.
And my view is, you just have to be realistic. It is a little messy. But at the same time, the alternative of deportation is going to be enormously costly. It's most likely unworkable.
And I believe that it's important that you separate those who have been civically-minded, that are behaving properly, that are paying taxes, that will pay fines, that are learning English, that are participating in civic responsibilities. And then you make the best of it. That's about the only alternative.
BLITZER: Are you have suggesting, Lou, that these 11 million or 12 million be deported?
DOBBS: Well, I hope I was very clear about what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting very simply that we secure the borders first, because you cannot control immigration without secure borders.
And if you can't control immigration, you sure as hell can't reform it. So I think it's about time that Washington and everyone else in this debate got honest about that.
The second part of this is, you don't have to deport anyone. You can deport people all day. We can deport all 11 million -- or numbers go up as high as 20 million -- today. We can deport every one of them.
Our borders are so insecure, they would be right back within a week. So talk of deportation is idiotic.
BLITZER: What about your border in New Mexico, Governor?
RICHARDSON: Well, I can tell you that I declared a border emergency about a little less than a year ago because there was illegal flow of people, of drugs, of violence. I wasn't getting any federal support from the Border Patrol.
They promised me help, but it's yet to come. And so the situation continues in New Mexico, it continues in Arizona. It continues in Texas.
Now, the point is, let's have enhanced border security. There's no question about it, there's new technology, more people will help.
But you can't just have border security. You have to have a plan that involves the 11 million that are here, a workable path to legalization.
Not citizenship. Not amnesty. But legalization.
DOBBS: Right.
RICHARDSON: After a certain of amount of years, they work in certain industries, they return after they complete their work. But some process that is workable.
BLITZER: We only have a few seconds, Lou. Go ahead.
DOBBS: May I say, Governor -- and I've got the greatest respect for Governor Richardson -- the fact is that we must secure those borders for reasons of national security. And irrespective of the illegal immigration crisis, which we need to solve otherwise, for the safety, the security and the well-being of Americans citizens, we need to secure those borders first.
The illegal immigration debate can follow. All other debates can follow. But until we remove a sham being perpetrated on the American people and truly control those borders, we're going have extraordinary, extraordinary problems in this country.
BLITZER: All right.
Governor, thanks very much for joining us.
Lou, thanks to you as well.
An important note to our viewers. Lou's going be reporting from Mexico Wednesday, Thursday and Friday at the summit. The president will be meeting with leaders of Canada and Mexico.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" coming from Cancun, Mexico, later this week.
Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM tonight, that developing story we're following in the war on terror, a plot to attack the White House revealed in open court.
And how far was President Bush prepared to go to invade Iraq in the months, weeks prior to the war? There's a memo that's out, it captures some of the suggestions, including, get this, before the war the assassination of Saddam Hussein.
David Ensor on this story.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer. In Washington, we want you to update now you on the breaking news that we reported at the top of the hour that involves a startling vulnerability in the nation's defenses. Government investigators now say they were able to smuggle into the United States enough radioactive material to build two dirty bombs.
Let's bring back Brian Todd. He's all over this story.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, just moments ago, I spoke to an official with Customs and Border Protection, that is a division of the Department of Homeland Security.
In reaction to GAO report, she said the following. At check points on the northern and southern borders, where the GAO investigators were disguised, alarms were sounded when they tried to get the radioactive material across. In both instances, she said, GAO investigators presented documents which appeared to be valid Nuclear Regulatory Commission documents on that material.
The investigators were then allowed to proceed. That Customs and Border Protection spokesperson said, one positive development coming out of this investigation, officials from Customs and Borders Protection immediately began discussions with their NRC counterparts to come up with ways to verify NRC documents in these situations. She said They hope have those mechanisms in place within 30 to 45 days, Wolf.
BLITZER: Let's hope they do Brian. Thank you very much. Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
There is another developing story we're following night. He admits he lied so he could rejoice seeing Americans die. 9/11 co- conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui gives a calm but chilling account of lying to investigators before 9/11 so the plot could go on as planned.
Let's go straight to our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, she's standing by outside the courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia, with the latest.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Zacarias Moussaoui says he not only knew about the 9/11 plot, but he was supposed to be a part of it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): As a stunned courtroom listened to his testimony, Moussaoui admitted for the first time that he knew about al Qaeda's plot to hijack planes and turn them into weapons aimed at the World Trade Center. Saying, "I had knowledge that the two towers would be hit, but I did not have the details."
He says he was supposed to pilot a fifth plane on that fateful day. And fly it into White House. He named infamous shoe bomber Richard Reid as one of his team members.
PAUL CALLAN, FORMER N.Y. STATE PROSECUTOR: I think his testimony today was suicide on the witness stand. Here, the prosecutors had a very uphill battle in getting the death penalty. I think Zacarias Moussaoui has sealed his own fate by testifying today.
ARENA: Defense attorney's did everything they could to keep him off the stand, but the judge let Moussaoui have his say. Prosecutors say Moussaoui deserves to die. Arguing that if he hadn't lied to investigators in 2001, they would have uncovered the 9/11 conspiracy.
Playing right into their hands, Moussaoui told jurors, "You're allowed to lie for jihad. You're allowed any technique to defeat your enemy."
STEPHEN SALTZBURG, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIV. LAW SCHOOL: I think, it's probably a 50/50 call. As to weather the jury, if they believe him, is going to say wow, if he hadn't lied about this, there might have been a chance to save the World Trade Center.
ARENA: Moussaoui's defense team tried to undo some of the damage, getting him to admit he never had any contact with Richard Reid while in the United States. In fact, Reid was not in the United States at the time. (END VIDEOTAPE)
Now Moussaoui's statement contradict previous claims that he made that he was meant for a follow-up attack. And that claim was reinforced today by al Qaeda operative and 9/11 planner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Notes from his interrogation, Wolf, were read to the jury today. Muhammad said Moussaoui was never meant to be part of 9/11. That he was meant for a follow-on attack that had been put, in his words, on the back burner, Wolf.
BLITZER: Kelli, thank you very much. Kelli Arena reporting.
Coming up -- secret war memo. How far was President Bush willing to go to start a war in Iraq? There are some explosive new allegations.
Hillary Clinton's challenger calls it a joke about the senator but why aren't so many people laughing in New York right now. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's check in with CNN's Zain Verjee for a quick check of some other headlines making news
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: He's not yet free, but he is said to be seeking asylum. Abdul Rahman, the Afghan man who could die for converting from Islam to Christianity wants asylum out of Afghanistan. That is according to a statement from the United Nations representative.
Meanwhile, the U.S. State Department saying that Afghanistan will free Rahman. He faces the death penalty for his religious conversion, but some Afghan officials are saying that he could be released soon from custody.
Louis Farrakhan says that he wants regime change in United States. During a visit to Cuba today, the Nation of Islam leader called U.S. policy wicked and says American foreign policy has turned the world against the U.S. The controversial leader also defends Iran's rights to have a nuclear program
Today, a federal judge in Chicago dismissed two jurors in the trial of former Illinois governor George Ryan. With the dismissals the judge says that she is trying to decide if the trial can go forward and that she'd like to avoid a mistrial. If the trial does proceed, deliberations would have to start all over again, which could add weeks to the trial. Former governor Ryan faces racketeering and fraud charges, Wolf?
BLITZER: Did President Bush look for ways to make sure that war against Saddam Hussein was a certainty. Stunning new allegations about A secret memo know in the weeks leading up to the war. For that, let's bring in our national security correspondent, David Ensor. David? DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the secret memo written by now British ambassador in Washington, Sir David Manning, describes the closed-door meeting between President Bush and Prime Minister Blair less two months before the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUSH: Saddam Hussein is not disarming. He is a danger to the world.
ENSOR (voice over): The memo describes the two men talking privately on that day as if they assumed war was inevitable, according to The New York Times," and we're looking for ways to provoke it.
PHILIPPE SANDS, AUTHOR: One of the provocations that was raised by the U.S. president was the idea he put to the prime minister of taking U.S. spy planes, American spy planes, painting them in United Nations colors, putting them in the air above Iraq, and, when Saddam Hussein shot at them, he would bring himself into material breach of various U.N. resolutions, so as to justify the use of force.
ENSOR: British lawyer Philippe Sands referred to the memo in his book "Lawless World." "The New York Times," however, quotes from it and says the two leaders even discussed the possibility Saddam Hussein might be assassinated.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Did the president really contemplate that as an option, since it would be breaking...
(CROSSTALK)
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This was a meeting that took place back in January of 2003. Even if I knew exactly what was said in that meeting, I wouldn't get into discussing private conversations between world leaders.
SANDS: I'm not sure from the material that I have had sight of that it was necessarily a question of the United States or the United Kingdom assassinating, or a mere expression of the hope that he might be assassinated. But the topic of assassination certainly came up.
ENSOR: "The New York Times" quotes Manning writing, Mr. Bush predicted that in post-war Iraq, it was, quote, "unlikely there would be internecine warfare between the different religious and ethnic groups," and that Mr. Blair agreed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: U.S. and British officials declined to confirm the memo's content. But one knowledgeable source noted that there had been no denials. If they could deny, he said, they would. Wolf?
BLITZER: David Ensor, thank you very much.
And up ahead here tonight in THE SITUATION ROOM, there are more strange twists in the New York Senate race. We'll have the details of a comment that landed Senator Hillary Clinton's challenger on the front page of the tabloids in New York City.
And from behind the bench to caught on camera, some very controversial cameras from the Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia that have some calling for his recusal in a blockbuster case. We're going to tell you what he said and where he said it. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Tonight a new embarrassment for a Republican rival of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. K.T. McFarland says she was just joking when she said Senator Clinton was spying on her. Some New York Republicans aren't amused at all. Let's bring in our Mary Snow, she's following this new twist from New York. Mary?
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, K.T. McFarland's campaign is just a few weeks old, and already she's had some rough spots. Now she finds herself having to explain spying claims.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): Republican Senate hopeful K.T. McFarland says it was a joke, but her crack about a conspiracy waged by Senator Hillary Clinton landed her in the spotlight, with the "New York Post" headline, "Kooky K.T.'s Spy Tale." This after McFarland told Republican fundraisers Senator Clinton is so worried about being challenged that she's spying on McFarland and had helicopters photographing her two homes.
BETH FOUHY, POLITICAL WRITER, "ASSOCIATED PRESS": She's in the glare of the New York media, the New York tabloid media, which is typically prepared to jump on anything odd or strange or new. That's what happened in this case.
SNOW: Senator Clinton's camp couldn't resist a response saying, quote, "Some campaigns hand out buttons. The McFarland campaign hands out tinfoil hats with antennas. We wish Ms. McFarland the best and hope she gets the rest she needs."
Fellow Republican, John Spencer, McFarland's conservative opponent, was present when McFarland made the comments and expressed disbelief at the conspiracy crack. McFarland responded, saying, quote, "This is a perfect example of what is happening in American politics. One misinterpreted joke, and your opponents are smearing you in the press.
FOUHY: Evidently, it was just a big thud, and it was just one more piece of backlash against her already fairly-troubled candidacy.
SNOW: That candidacy took a new twist with an attack on her political adviser, Ed Rollins, of Ross Perot campaign fate. New York's Republican chairman is urging McFarland to dump Rollins, saying in a letter, quoted by the "Associated Press," that Rollins is "the man who helped bring Mrs. Clinton into all of our lives," reasoning that, had Rollins not backed Perot in 1992, Bill Clinton would not have been elected president.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Ed Rollins called the GOP letter absurd. K.T. McFarland says she's not firing him and intends to press ahead in challenging Senator Clinton. Wolf?
BLITZER: Mary Snow, thanks very much. And remember, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where political news is arriving all the time. CNN, American's campaign headquarters.
And this we're getting into THE SITUATION ROOM as well. Senator John Kerry hates celery, likes creamy peanut butter, and orders in- room movies when he travels. That according to documents just released online. Last week, we told you about Dick Cheney, the vice president, and what his hotel preferences were. Now we have John Kerry's. Let's bring in our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton. Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Yes, Wolf, last week it was Dick Cheney and Diet Sprite. Now on the Smoking Gun Web site, we have documents that speak to what Senator Kerry likes to have on the road.
And it talks to breakfast, lunch and dinner. For breakfast, it's vitamin waters and also Wheaties. They also talk about creamy peanut butter, even the brand is specified. More, it speaks to what things not to order for John Kerry. He hates celery and something that is definitely out is any tomato-based food.
It was also interesting things about exercise. John Kerry likes to have a recumbent bike. That's an exercise bike that reclines. We spoke to a member of Senator Kerry's traveling road show who confirms these documents are authentic. Points out they're from the spring of 2003, from after when Senator Kerry was recovering from cancer surgery, hence all the healthy options on the site there, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Abbi, for that. Up ahead, he made some controversial comments. Now some are calling for Justice Antonin Scalia to sit out a huge case that's coming before the Supreme Court tomorrow. We're going to tell you what's going on. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The bottom line, a mixed day on Wall Street today. The Dow and the S&P were down with investors apparently anxious about tomorrow's Fed meeting and an expected hike in interest rates. The Nasdaq, though, was up.
Tonight the Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia at the center of a new controversy just hours before a major case in the war on terror. This time Scalia's under fire for dismissing the idea that detainees at Guantanamo Bay Prison Camp have constitutional rights.
Once again, let's bring back Brian Todd. He's got this story -- Brian.
TODD: Wolf, some detainee advocates and legal scholars want Justice Scalia to step away from the case that's will be heard at the Supreme Court tomorrow. But it is still not clear whether his comments about detainees pertain to this particular care.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice over): Friends call this, vintage Antonin Scalia.
JUSTICE ANTONIN SCALIA, SUPREME COURT: I mean, give me a break.
TODD: CNN obtained this video of the Supreme Court Justice taking questions at a Swiss law school three weeks ago. Here, Scalia sounds off on what legal rights Guantanamo detainees should have.
SCALIA: If he was captured by my army on a battlefield that is where he belongs. I had a son on that battlefield, and they shooting at my son, and I'm not about to give this man, who was captured in a war, a full jury trial. I mean it is crazy.
TODD: The comments lead some detainee advocates and legal scholars to call for Scalia's recusal from the blockbuster case the court hears tomorrow. Osama bin Laden's driver, now captured detainee Salim Hamdan, is challenging his pending military tribunal.
JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIV.: A justice cannot ethically sit on a case, if he has previously held forth on the merits and also stated a personal reason why he would rule one way or another. That is enormously improper. It would bring discredit to the court.
TODD: Hamdan's attorney's don't plan to call for recusal.
LT. CMDR. CHARLES SWIFT, HAMDAN'S MILITARY ATTORNEY: Maybe I am naive, but I have a great faith in the courts on weighty issues to give it the full and fair consideration.
TODD: But others argue that Scalia didn't mention Hamdan by name. And they say the justice was in fact criticizing a case decided two years ago, when the Supreme Court ruled detainees could challenge their detention in federal court.
DAVID RIVKIN, FORMER JUSTICE DEPT. ATTORNEY: So for a Supreme Court justice to talk about a decision that is already made where he's has taken position in a form of a dissent, absolutely doesn't violate any ethical norms and absolutely doesn't disqualify him in this case.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: In the end, it's up to Justice Scalia to decide if he will recuse himself. A court spokeswoman says the justice will not comment about that. If he does recuse, only seven justices will hear his Hamdan's case. Chief Justice John Roberts has already recused himself because he ruled against Hamdan last year in federal appeals court -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian, thank you very much. Brian Todd reporting. Still ahead, is the U.S. a difficult friend for other nations to have? It's our question of the hour. Jack Cafferty's going through your e-mail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's head up to New York. Once again, Jack's standing by with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Wolf.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair, the says the anti-Americanism in parts of Europe is madness. Mr. Blair said in a speech to Australia's parliament, I don't always agree with the United States. Sometimes they can be difficult friends to have." That's a quote.
So the question this hour is, "Is the United States a 'difficult friend' for other nations to have?"
Paul writes from Chattanooga, Tennessee, "We are and will remain a 'difficult friend' as long as we are guided by a national policy that implicitly states that only this country has a self interest that must be protected. To hell with the self interests of others."
Tim in Alabama, "America is very close to becoming that poor friend sitting against the wall at the prom who nobody really wants to dance with, but sooner or later someone finally asks. And then we have the audacity to decline because, you know, we got standards."
Adam writes, "Jack, not every international government will agree with the U.S. on everything. But ask any of our allies and I'm certain they will tell you the benefits of their alliance with the United States far exceed the costs."
Kara writes from Smithtown, New York, "Well, from the way it looks we are Mexico's best friend."
Scott in Syracuse, New York, "We used to be the friend everybody wanted to hang out with. Since Mr. Bush took office, we are the kid nobody wants to play with, the kid nobody picks to be on their team. Who wants to hang out with a bully, who thinks every idea he has and every rule he believes in is the only way to live worldwide?"
And finally Silvio in San Antonio, Texas, "Yes, Jack, the United States is a difficult friend to have. Many nations fear the spread of mad cowboy disease. They look at how it has infected Tony Blair and fear it may spread to other leaders of state" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Very interesting letters. We have some very creative writers out there. I love those guys, Jack.
CAFFERTY: They make this job a lot easier than it probably would be otherwise.
BLITZER: And I can honestly say I pay attention to those letters you read and I always learn something thanks to you and our viewers. CAFFERTY: Do you know you called me Lou in the last segment?
BLITZER: I am sorry. Do you want to forgive me?
CAFFERTY: Absolutely. It's not a big deal.
BLITZER: No, but it was to you. Thanks Jack.
Paula standing by to pick up our coverage. She is in New York -- Paula.
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