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The Situation Room
Andy Card, White House Chief Of Staff, Hands In Resignation; Josh Bolten To replace Andy Card; President Bush Interview; Ari Fleischer Interview; Supreme Court Hears Case Of Bin Laden's Driver; Dick Durbin Interview; A Look Back At The Life Of Former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger
Aired March 28, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where news and information from around the world arrive at one place at the same time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world ready to bring you today's top stories.
Happening right now, it's 5:00 p.m. here in Washington, where we have an exclusive interview with the president of the United States. He speaks his mind about the situation in Iraq, immigration, and a White House under siege from fellow Republicans.
A big change at the White House. The president's chief of staff steps down as worried Republicans step up calls for a shakeup. Can new blood pump life into the president's poll numbers?
And at the Supreme Court, the man said to be bin Laden's bodyguard challenges the president's wartime powers. Are some justices inclined to agree with him?
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
We're going to get to our exclusive interview, our CNN interview with the president, momentarily. But you also have to know we're following an important story over at the White House; namely, a shakeup. A new White House chief of staff is in, the old chief of staff is out.
Let's go to the White House. Our Suzanne Malveaux is standing by with today's details -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was three weeks ago that Andy Card approached the president saying he wanted to leave, but the president did not accept his resignation. He had made his views known some time ago around 2004. After the reelection, President Bush wanted him to stay, but it was this weekend at Camp David the president finally accepted his resignation.
These two men are very close. You may recall that it was Andy Card who whispered in the president's ear on September 11 that the country was under attack. It was Andy Card today who shed some tears.
The big question, of course, Wolf, is whether or not this is really going to be able to jump-start the administration's ability to move forward on the agenda.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice over): A turnover at the highest levels in the West Wing.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Andy Card has served me and our country in historic times.
MALVEAUX: Chief of Staff Andy Card out.
ANDY CARD, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: And there is a new season.
MALVEAUX: Budget chief Josh Bolten in.
JOSH BOLTEN, BUDGET DIRECTOR: Andy cannot be replaced.
MALVEAUX: A shakeup at the White house? Hardly.
CHARLIE BLACK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think what's occurred today is a very fine public servant decided to retire and was replaced by another Bush insider.
MALVEAUX: And that's the way the president likes it.
Despite strikes by terrorists and hurricanes, bruising legislative battles, war and sagging poll numbers, President Bush's team continues to defy history by remaining almost entirely intact five years after the president first took office.
BLACK: This White House staff has been more unified and had less infighting and less freelancing than any White House in modern history.
MALVEAUX: But critics, now including some top Republicans on the Hill, believe the president's leadership style has ultimately hurt him, isolating him from fresh ideas and bad news.
RON BROWNSTEIN, POLITICAL ANALYST: The president leaves himself very little margin for error.
MALVEAUX: The president's inner circle remains small. Aides say his Oval Office door is open to just a handful who have been with him since he came to Washington in 2001. Among those, Vice President Dick Cheney, political guru Karl Rove, White House counsel Harriet Miers and others.
BLACK: If he has no suspicion whatsoever that they have their own agenda, then it allows him to trust them and become completely comfortable with them.
MALVEAUX: And those who have departed generally have not.
BLACK: If there is a common denominator, it seems to me that this sense of loyalty and team work that the president demands, that folks who left might not have adhered to that, or at least he didn't perceive them to be complete team players.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And Wolf, of course Bush aides say that that was not the case when it came to Andy Card. The big question is whether or not they're going to be able to turn things around, the struggling agenda.
And the president and this White House, there are many Republican strategists who we've been speaking with who are somewhat skeptical about this. They believe that perhaps someone who is a little bit more removed from the White House would be more effective.
As one person put it, they said that "Changing the staff will not bring about victory in Iraq anytime sooner" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Suzanne, thanks very much.
And just a little while ago, the president gave an exclusive interview to CNN en Espanol's Juan Carlos Lopez. They discussed immigration and lots of other issues as well. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN EN ESPANOL: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
Thank you for the interview. Very busy day at the White House. So I have to ask, you accepted the resignation of Andrew Card today. Is this a sign of a major shakeup at the White House?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, it's a sign of fellow who's worked five -- five and a quarter years. He's here every morning early in the morning and stays late, and he put his heart and soul in the job. And came to me about two and a half weeks ago, or two weeks ago, and said, "I think it may be time for me to go on." You know, "I've given it my all."
And I thank him for his service. I consider him an incredibly close friend.
And obviously, I have picked Joshua Bolten to take his place. And now Josh's job is to design a White House staff that meets the needs of the president, which is one of the key -- the most important needs is to make sure I get information in a timely fashion so I can make decisions.
LOPEZ: Any more changes coming up?
BUSH: Well, Josh has just begun to take a look at the White House structure. And I haven't had a chance to talk to him about the future yet. But right now I'm honoring and celebrating the service of Andy Card.
LOPEZ: Let's talk about Cancun. You will meet with President Fox, the prime minister -- the prime minister of Canada. What do you expect to accomplish? BUSH: Well, I think it's very important for the three of us to continue to commit ourselves to a relationship that -- that -- a commercial relationship based upon trade, free and fair trade, a security relationship based upon a kind of mutual understanding of how we can cooperate. And we're going to have a cultural event. We're going to go to the ruins, which will be fantastic, the Mayan ruins.
And the point is, is that the three of us need to be interconnected and work closely together for the good of our respective peoples. I will remind people that -- that we're not starting anything new. We're really building on what our predecessors left behind.
In 2005, there was, you know, enormous trade between Mexico and the United States, much more significant than it was, you know, 10 years ago. And I believe both countries benefit from that trade.
But it is also not a given that people in both our countries accept trade. And therefore, one of the jobs of leadership is to remind people about the benefits, that trade equals jobs and jobs makes people have a chance to realize, you know, hopeful dreams.
LOPEZ: The government of Mexico recently placed ads in U.S. papers...
BUSH: Yes.
LOPEZ: Acknowledging their responsibility on the border problem and saying they should have a role in the way the guest worker program is shaped. Should Mexico have that role? Is that appropriate?
BUSH: Well, I think, first of all, the fact that they put those ads in the papers talking about joint responsibility and the border makes it easier for those of us who believe in comprehensive migration or immigration reform to get something done. And I appreciate the government's stand there.
The truth of the matter is, the laws of the United States will be written inside the Congress. Of course, you know -- you know, thoughtful suggestions may help, but the job is really to get a bill out of -- out of the Senate and eventually out of the House, out of a conference committee that I can sign.
And I'm interested in comprehensive immigration reform that includes not only border security but also a temporary worker plan that recognizes there are hard-working people here doing jobs Americans won't do and they ought to be here in such a way so they don't have to hide in the shadows of our society. And the fundamental issue, by the way, it seems like to me on the guest worker plan, is somebody gets ahead of the line when it comes to citizenship.
And my answer is, no, they ought to -- they ought to get in line, but they don't get to get to the head of the line. And that's where some of the tension about the debate is taking place right now.
LOPEZ: The debate is taking place in the Senate. They are discussing a plan and they're including your guest worker program that you've requested. But the House said no. The Sensenbrenner bill doesn't include...
BUSH: Well, I wouldn't give up on it yet. We're just starting. It's a -- for your listeners, this is a process.
The House has passed a bill, the Senate hopefully will pass a bill. And then they'll get to conference and work something out in conference.
And I've called upon both the House and the Senate to pass a comprehensive bill. And a comprehensive bill means to make sure you include a guest worker program as part of the comprehensive bill.
I happen to believe a guest worker program recognizes reality here -- what's taking place in our economy today. But it also -- a guest worker program is part of border security.
I mean, rather than have people sneaking across the border to come and do jobs that Americans won't do, it seems like it makes sense for people to be given an identification card that they can come and use to do a job on a temporary basis so they can go back and forth freely with this tamper-proof ID card and not have to sneak across, so that our border patrol agents on both sides of the border are really dealing with, you know, drug smuggling or gun smuggling or terrorists trying to sneak into the country.
LOPEZ: So the question is, after those six years, if they get the six years in this program, how will you enforce sending people back who have to go back who have been living here?
BUSH: Well, you will have to have a tamper-proof card in order to work. In other words, there will be -- it will make it much easier to have employer enforcement in place when there is a card that you know is tamper-proof. In other words, one that can't be forged.
Right now there's a whole, you know, document forging industry that has evolved. There are people sneaking across in 18-wheelers, there are people risking their lives. And the system is inhumane, as far as I'm concerned. And it needs to be reformed.
LOPEZ: The White House supported (ph) the Sensenbrenner bill in the House, making the exception that you were going to pursue a temporary guest worker program. Now, that bill includes the construction of 700 miles of border, and that is seen not only in Mexico but in many Latin America countries as a sign that the U.S. wants to isolate itself from the region.
Is that...
(CROSSTALK)
BUSH: No. I don't think people ought to read that into it. I think people -- first of all, the House is the beginning of the process, as you know. But people shouldn't -- it's impractical to fence off the border. But it is also realistic to give our border patrol agents tools to be able to do their job.
We ought to enforce our borders. That's what the American people expect.
You know, I have talked to President Fox about Mexico enforcing our southern border. And he agrees there ought to be border enforcement down there. But he, like I understand, it's difficult to enforce large borders. And I don't think anybody believes that you could totally fence off the border and be effective, but I do think we ought to be in a position to give our border patrol agents, you know, better tools, more effective ways to prevent people from something people and/or drugs across our border.
LOPEZ: I want to ask you about Venezuela. President Chavez, he refers to you in very strong terms. He does the same about Secretary Rice.
What is your reaction to that, and where do you see -- how do you see that affecting the relationship between the two countries?
BUSH: I judge the president based upon his honoring of the institutions that make democracy sound in Venezuela. I think it's very important for leaders to honor the freedom to worship, the freedom of the press, contracts, legal -- to honor legal contracts, to allow people to express their opinion without fear. And it's very important for leaders throughout the hemisphere, whether they agree with America or not, to honor the -- you know, the tenets of democracy. And to the extent he doesn't do that, I believe he should be subject to criticism.
LOPEZ: The president -- Iraq, you've been telling people the U.S. is going the right way. But the polls -- and you've said you don't follow the polls -- the polls say people don't agree with you. Could it be that they're right and you're wrong?
BUSH: You know, history will prove whether I'm right. I think I'll be right because I do believe freedom is universal.
I remember it wasn't all that long ago that 11 million Iraqis went to the polls in the face of terrorist threats, in the face of potential assassination, and said, we want to be free. That was last December. That sentiment still exists in Iraq.
The enemy has -- those who want to stop democracy, they've got one weapon, and that is the ability to kill innocent live to get on the TV to shake our will. And my will's not going to be shaken.
You cannot have a president make decisions based upon yesterday's polls. You must have a president who believes in certain principles and is willing to lead based upon a vision for a better future. And I believe my vision for a better future entails having a democratic Iraq as a friend and an ally, and to prevent the stated goals of the enemy from taking place.
They want us to leave Iraq so they can establish a safe haven from which to launch attacks on our -- on our people again. And I take their -- I take their goals seriously, and I will use all resources at my disposal in order to protect the American people.
LOPEZ: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
BUSH: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The president speaking with CNN en Espanol's Juan Carlos Lopez over at the White House earlier today.
Let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty is standing by again with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: "If the White House it looking to change course, they picked the wrong person to toss overboard." That's a quote from Senate Minority Whip Richard Durbin on staff changes at the White House earlier today.
Chief of Staff Andy Card is leaving. He will be replaced by Budget Director Josh Bolten. Bolten isn't exactly new blood. He's been with the president for all five years, serving as deputy chief of staff before becoming director of the Office of Management and Budget.
Some Republicans say it's not nearly enough and they want the president to bring in someone from the outside to serve as a sort of unofficial ambassador to the Congress.
So here's the question: If White House Chief of Staff Andy Card isn't the only one to go, who should be next?
E-mail your thoughts to caffertyfile@cnn.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile.
BLITZER: Jack, thanks very much.
Senator Durbin, by the way, is going to be here live in THE SITUATION ROOM coming up this hour.
Also coming up, police using water cannons, tear gas as hundreds of thousands of people protest across France. We're going to have details of what's going on, the unrest in Paris.
Also, he was allegedly Osama bin Laden's driver. Now his case is before the U.S. Supreme Court. We'll show you why it could affect the course of the war on terror.
And this note. Coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, Justice Scalia unplugged. We're going to show you the recent speech he gave that's raising lots of controversy.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Our Zain Verjee joining us once again from the CNN global headquarters with a closer look at some other stories making news -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, exit polls project the new centrist Kadima party will come out on top in today's Israeli elections. Ailing Prime Minister Ariel Sharon founded Kadima after breaking with the conservative Likud party shortly before suffering a stroke that left him incapacitated. According to an Israeli TV exit poll, Kadima is projected to take at least 29 seats in the Israeli parliament and will likely form a coalition with the projected second place Labor party.
Italy is considering granting asylum to an Afghan man who was facing the death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity. Abdul Rahman was released from an Afghan prison yesterday after charges of abandoning his faith were dropped. Officials cited a lack of evidence and questions about Rahman's competency. He is now said to be in hiding in Kabul.
Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators filled the streets of cities right across France. They were protesting a controversial new labor law.
In Paris, the capital, police used water cannons and tear gas to disperse the crowds. The law is essentially designed to make it easy to fire workers in their first two years on the job. Supporters say it would encourage employers to hire more young people.
And it's among many Americans' worst nightmare, breaches in national security that could allow terrorists to smuggle in dangerous weapons. Now, today, that was the subject of a Senate hearing.
Congressional investigators warned of today gaps in security at the nation's ports after they were able to smuggle in to the United States enough nuclear material to make two dirty bombs.
Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, thank you very much for that.
And coming up, the U.S. Supreme Court takes up the case of an alleged former top aide to Osama bin Laden. Why this decision could affect all of us. We're going to watch what's going on.
And real-life drama in the real West Wing. We're going to get an insider's perspective. The former White House press secretary, Ari Fleischer, he's standing by to join us live right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's check in with our Ali Velshi. He's got "The Bottom Line."
(BUSINESS REPORT)
BLITZER: Coming up, shuffling cards. Now that the White House chief of staff, Andy Card, has resigned, should more staffers inside the White House go? We're going to talk live with one of the first White House insiders to leave the Bush White House. That would be the former White House press secretary, Ari Fleischer. He's standing by live.
And he was one of the president's men. We'll take a look back at the colorful life of former Reagan defense secretary Caspar Weinberger.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
More now on our top story, the White House shakeup. The current White House chief of staff, Andy card, is stepping aside. The president has named his longtime aide, the current budget director, Josh Bolten, to become the next chief of staff.
Joining us now to offer some unique insight, the former Bush White House press secretary, Ari Fleischer. He's joining us from Pound Ridge in New York State.
Ari, thanks very much for joining us.
A lot of pundits out there are suggesting this is too little, too late, he should have done this a while back and it should have been more robust, the staff shakeup.
What do you think?
ARI FLEISCHER, FMR. WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, you know, I think you don't have to look very far back to know how Governor Bush operated and how President Bush operates. Remember after we lost the New Hampshire primary everybody was shouting you need to fire people. Governor Bush never did, kept the same team in place and went on to win the presidency.
So I understand Washington. There are often those types of calls. But that's not this president's personality.
BLITZER: You, yourself, were quoted the other day as saying this team in the White House, they've been there since day one, including Andy Card. They work really, really hard, as we all know. In your words, they are tired. Is this a problem?
FLEISCHER: Well, I think I said in that interview, it's a very pronounced double-edged sword.
They are experienced. They are seasoned. They know how to get things done. They are certainly comfortable with the president, and he's comfortable with them, but they are tired. Many people have been there since I started, which was back in the campaign in Austin in 1999. And, so, there's always an element in this business where you have to make a good decision about the gain from being seasoned and experienced, vs. the need for fresh legs and for people who are tired. And that is a factor in all White Houses, Wolf. Burnout is always an issue.
BLITZER: But did the fact that these guys are tired, did that affect some of the recent blunders that we have all reported on so extensively?
For example, you were even critical of the way they handled the vice president's shooting incident down in Texas.
FLEISCHER: Well, I don't think I don't attribute that to anybody being tired. And, certainly, that was not a staff decision. That was a decision that was made, in terms of how to handle it, by the vice president. So, that's not a reflection on...
BLITZER: But let me...
FLEISCHER: ... the staff.
BLITZER: Let me interrupt you on that point.
FLEISCHER: And...
BLITZER: The chief of staff knew about this, almost immediately, knew what was going on.
FLEISCHER: But I think the decision as to how to handle it was the vice president's call.
I think that it's probably likely that Andy Card had a little bit of a different view on how it should have been handled. But, ultimately, in that case, the vice president made that decision. My only point is, I don't think that's a question of fatigue.
Same thing, Dubai torts, where, I think, if that had been brought to the attention of people at the White House, it might have been handled differently. Nevertheless, I think the point is, this president will empower Josh Bolten with all the full authority of that job.
Josh will be able to make whatever changes Josh thinks are in the president's interests. That, to me, is where the story lies, Wolf. Josh replacing Andy is not a shakeup. It's really a continuation of a White House Bush insider. It's the next step that I find intriguing, because Josh will have that authority. That is how the president operates.
And, so, I do think there's more to be written. We will just have to see exactly how Josh and the president decide to proceed.
BLITZER: Earlier...
(CROSSTALK) FLEISCHER: The other issue to keep in mind...
BLITZER: I was going to say, earlier this month...
(CROSSTALK)
FLEISCHER: ... the other issue...
BLITZER: The former White House chief of staff during the Clinton administration, Leon Panetta, a man you know, he said this about the way this president operates. "He is a loyal guy, likes his comfort zone, and doesn't like to make changes, but it doesn't give the president any new ideas."
By moving Andy Card out, bringing Josh Bolten in, where are the new, fresh ideas that this president might need?
FLEISCHER: Well, I don't think this change, in and of itself, is that.
But that's why I said, the next story is, in my judgment, the most intriguing one. Josh will have full that authority to make changes at the White House. This is the open question from this move. As a result of this, what changes will be made down the road? I think that's where people should keep their eyes focused.
And one factor, too: I think, after the 2006 elections, there will be a tendency for a lot of people to leave. And I think it will be important for people to leave in a staggered fashion, not all at once, right after the election. I think that's going to be in Josh's mind as well, as he proceeds.
BLITZER: Republican Senator Norm Coleman of Minnesota said this earlier in the month. He said: "All of a sudden, we are hearing the phrase tin ear. That's a phrase you shouldn't hear. The fact that you're hearing it says that the kind of political sensitivity, the ear-to-the-ground that you need in the White House, isn't there at the level that it needs to be."
Is that fair criticism?
FLEISCHER: Well, I -- I think it's a criticism of the symptom, but not the problem.
Look, the real problem is, the president's poll numbers are down. Things are not going well in Iraq as we would have hoped. The economy is going gangbusters and creating a lot of jobs, but the president is not given the credit for it.
So, I think that what you see now is a lot of criticism, because times don't feel right. I think they're listening. They don't have a tin ear. I think they are doing their best to listen. It's just, they are going through a very tough period, with bad poll numbers and bad times, because of Iraq, largely.
BLITZER: Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota echoed in. And he said -- the other day, he said: "An ingredient that is missing right now in the White House is that sense of urgency, that passion, that intensity. When you have had horses there that you have been riding for a long time, you kind of need to change them once in a while."
You keep hearing -- these are Republicans who are making...
FLEISCHER: Yes.
BLITZER: ... who are offering these criticisms.
FLEISCHER: No. And I think Andy was aware of that. And I think Andy, one thing you have to say about him, Andy is a selfless machine. I believe that Andy made this decision because he heard those criticisms. He also legitimately can be tired. He has been there for so long. He has done, I think, a wonderful job with this president.
Obviously, the president thought it. But I think Andy was aware of that. And I think that's something that Andy probably conveyed to the president and said to him, "If, as a result of what you are hearing, you think change is helpful, I am willing to help you make that change, Mr. President." I think there's a lot of that going on here as well. And that's to Andy's credit.
BLITZER: Ari Fleischer is the former White House press secretary.
Ari, thanks very much for joining us.
FLEISCHER: Wolf, my pleasure. Thank you.
And coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM, we will hear from a Democrat, the Democratic whip, Dick Durbin. He will join us live here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Also, more on today's White House shakeup.
And we will also get into U.S. troops in Iraq. What's going on right now?
And, later, a Supreme Court justice speaks out. He was out of court, but was he out of order? That's coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour -- right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The man said to be Osama bin Laden's former bodyguard is at the heart of an issue taken up today over at the U.S. Supreme Court. It could turn out to be a landmark case challenging the president's power to authorize military trials for terror suspects.
Let's go live to our CNN Pentagon correspondent, Jaime McIntyre -- Jaime.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it -- the justices will decide the case this summer, but it does have all the earmarks of a case that could be a landmark case, deciding on whether President Bush, how far he can go in exercising his powers in the war against terror.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): The case was brought on behalf of Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a Yemeni man alleged to have been Osama bin Laden's bodyguard and driver, and now held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
His lawyers argue, President Bush exceeded his authority by setting up military commissions that don't give terror suspects full protection of military law.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NEAL KATYAL, ATTORNEY FOR SALIM AHMED HAMDAN: This is a military commission that is literally unbounded by the laws, Constitution, and treaties of the United States.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: The Bush administration countered that military commissions are nothing new, and not inherently unfair.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PAUL CLEMENT, U.S. SOLICITOR GENERAL: That authority was part and parcel of George Washington's authority as commander in chief of the revolutionary forces.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: That argument drew highly skeptical questions from several of the justices, including David Souter.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DAVID SOUTER, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: You say the -- the president is operating under the laws of war recognized by Congress. But, for purposes of a claim to status, and, hence, the -- the -- the procedural rights that go with that status, you're saying the laws of war don't apply. And -- and I don't see how you can have it both ways.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: But at least two of the justices, Antonin Scalia and newly appointed Justice Samuel Alito, seemed sympathetic to the government's argument that the commissions were clearly constitutional.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ANTONIN SCALIA, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: This is not a -- you know, a necktie party, where it parades as a court and it has been constituted as a court. (END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Wolf, the oral arguments were 90 minutes, and, interestingly, a lot of that time was spent on the question of whether a new law passed by Congress just three months ago, which takes some of the jurisdiction for detainees away from some lower courts, was, in fact, something that would take the jurisdiction away from the Supreme Court.
I got to tell you, at least four, maybe five of the justices took umbrage at that. So, it seemed like they weren't giving that argument a very sympathetic ear.
BLITZER: Jamie, thanks very much.
And the case has been riddled with controversy, almost since its inception. Now there's a brand new twist. We are learning, a group of retired U.S. generals and admirals wants the Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia to recuse himself from even hearing the case.
Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, is joining us now with details -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, those generals and admirals have a lot of military and legal experience.
You can read their letter online at the popular SCOTUSblog.com. They want Justice Antonin Scalia to recuse himself from the case, saying that he has already pre-judged it -- this information coming via "Newsweek," via a report that says Scalia gave a speech, rather, in Switzerland that said that Guantanamo detainees should not enjoy rights under the U.S. Constitution and the Geneva Convention.
It also says, according to "Newsweek," he talked about his son who is serving in the Army in Iraq, and that anyone caught shooting at his son, he would not afford them a full jury trial.
Now, these admirals and generals also say that Hamdan should have the right of the Geneva Convention, and that this would, conversely, then apply to U.S. soldiers abroad, this being very important.
It should also be noted that his counsel has not asked that Scalia recuse himself from the case. Chief Justice -- Chief Justice John Roberts, Wolf, has already recused himself from the case. He ruled on this in a lower appellate court.
BLITZER: Jacki, thank you very much.
Lou Dobbs getting ready for his program -- that begins right at the top of the hour. And Lou is telling us right now what he has got in store here -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf. Coming up at 6:00 p.m. here on CNN, outrage across the country tonight over the Senate Judiciary Committee's vote in favor of illegal aliens, granting, effectively, amnesty, and what is perceived to be a vote against American middle-class working men and women and their families. We will be live on Capitol Hill tonight, where a deep Republican divide remains in the Senate over immigration reform and border security. I will be talking with Senator Jon Kyl, Senator Jeff Sessions.
Also tonight, special-interest groups and organized labor, big business, showing strong support for amnesty for illegal aliens -- we will tell you about their agenda and why this is so important to those groups, that they would support legislation that could well be called destructive to the American dream.
And I will talk with three of the country's most prominent talk show hosts about what they are hearing from their radio listeners on the immigration reform debate and border security, and a great deal more.
We hope you will be with us -- Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Lou.
And this note to our viewers: only one day remaining before Lou will be broadcasting live from Cancun, Mexico. That's where President Bush will be meeting for a summit with his Mexican and Canadian counterparts.
That starts tomorrow -- among the items on the agenda, immigration and trade -- "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" tomorrow live from Mexico, Thursday and Friday as well.
Up next, much more on our top story -- the shakeup over at the White House. I will speak with one of the top Democrats in the Senate, in fact, the second-ranking Democrats, Dick Durbin, the minority whip.
And he was a central figure in the Iran-Contra scandal, one of President Reagan's most trusted loyalists. At his death, we will look back at Caspar Weinberger's life.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: More now on our top story: the resignation of the president's chief of staff.
You just heard our exclusive interview with the president of the United States. Let's get some Democratic reaction right now.
The Illinois Senator Dick Durbin is joining us from Capitol Hill. He's the minority whip, the number-two Senate Democrat.
Senator, the president is not ruling out more staff changes in -- in that interview. What -- first of all, what's your reaction to the decision by Andy Card to resign?
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: Well, he worked hard. He was a great public servant. And I think, if this was a personal decision, that he wanted to spend a little more time with his family, a little less hectic lifestyle, that is understandable.
But he's one of the most reasonable, professional people in this White House, a person whose word is very good. And if this is the beginning of cleaning house, they tossed the wrong guy overboard.
BLITZER: Because the White House chief of staff has to deal with members of Congress, especially the leadership, Republicans and Democrats.
From your perspective, as a Democratic leader, you are saying you had a good relationship.
DURBIN: Oh, I did.
BLITZER: You could trust Andy Card.
DURBIN: Absolutely.
BLITZER: Well, what about Josh Bolten, the budget director, who is going to be the new White House chief of staff?
DURBIN: I can't speak to Josh Bolten on a personal basis.
I will tell you that, with the budget deficit out of control, I don't think he comes to this job with a great set of credentials. But I want to give him a chance. You know, the bottom line is, if the president of the United States is going to lead this country in a new direction, which they are begging for, then he needs a new approach, a new team, maybe a new set of political values.
BLITZER: Like -- well, so, what else are you recommending? Clearly, the president has got his own advisers. You are not necessarily one of his advisers. But what else would you like to see?
DURBIN: I think there are people in the Cabinet who should leave. I won't go through names. But I will tell you that some of the policies that they have been pushing are just total failures.
BLITZER: Well, give us a few examples.
DURBIN: Well, take Iraq, for a starter.
In this situation now, we have a president counseling patience, saying wait for the next president of the United States to remove the American troops. What kind of message is that to send to the Iraqis? We ought to tell them there's a sense of urgency. They need to take control of their own country. They need to defend their own country. They need Iraqi soldiers ready to stand and fight, so American soldiers can come home.
BLITZER: Would you like to see Donald Rumsfeld resign? DURBIN: I am not a big fan of Secretary Rumsfeld.
I think this policy in Iraq has been a disastrous policy. And I think his leadership on many issues, whether it's sending enough troops, arming our troops with what they need to come home safely, preparing Iraq, so that it can take care of its own defense future, I think there have been a lot of failures in this Department of Defense.
BLITZER: That sounds like a yes to me.
DURBIN: It's close.
BLITZER: OK.
Listen to what the president said about Iraq in the exclusive interview he gave to CNN en Espanol on the eve of his summit. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I believe my vision for a better future entails having a democratic Iraq as a friend and an ally, and to prevent the stated goals of the enemy from taking place.
They want us to leave Iraq, so they can establish a safe haven from which to launch attacks on our -- on our people again. And I take their -- I take their goal seriously. And I will use all resources at my disposal in order to protect the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: What's wrong with that?
DURBIN: Nothing. In fact, it's a great goal.
For two years, they have promised, though, that the Iraqi soldiers would stand up and fight for their own country. I will believe it when the first Iraqi soldier replaces an American soldier.
And now we have the president saying, well, maybe it's another two-and-a-half years before that day comes. I just think that that's a timetable that evidences no plan, no real view of the future that -- with any kind of certainty that our troops are going to return.
BLITZER: Senator McCain, a Republican, an independent Republican, if you will, just back from Iraq, he said this earlier today.
I want your reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think we have got some tough sledding ahead, and I would be very much opposed to any troop withdrawals at this time, in my assessment of the situation.
Clearly, a calendar should not dictate in war troop strengths or any other battlefield tactics or strategy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Do you have a problem with that?
DURBIN: If Iraq is descending into a civil war, if that's the suggestion I hear from my colleague, what is the end of this story?
How will it end? Can we bring these people together, so they can govern their own country, protect themselves? Many of us said it's a lot easier to get in a war than it is to get out. And we are being proven right. I hope that this administration is making it clear, at least behind the scenes, to the Iraqis, that this kind of government fumbling that we are seeing now is unacceptable.
BLITZER: Senator, there's a lot of pundits out there who think the Democrats have a shot at capturing the majority in the House.
But what about the Senate? As you look at the various races that are open, a third of the Senate up for reelection, what do you think? Do the Democrats have a shot of actually becoming the majority in the Senate?
DURBIN: I have sensed, as I have traveled around Illinois and around this country, that there is a real mood for change.
People want to see a new direction. They are tired of the Bush direction for this country. They just don't think we are really addressing the major issues.
They don't feel more secure, when we have a country with a Dubai ports deal. They don't feel more secure, when we don't provide the necessary resources to our police and our firefighters, not checking on ports for security, not dealing with chemical and nuclear plant security. They want real security in this country. They want leadership that is dedicated to health insurance that is affordable and accessible for all Americans and their businesses. There's just no leadership coming from this administration.
BLITZER: All right, Senator Durbin, we will leave it there.
Thanks very much for joining us.
DURBIN: Thank you.
BLITZER: Dick Durbin, the number-two Senate Democrat.
Let's go up to Jack Cafferty. He's standing by with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: White House Chief of Staff Andy Card out -- he will be replaced by Budget Director Josh Bolten.
Some Republicans, though, say it's not enough. They want the president to bring in someone from the outside to serve as a sort of an unofficial ambassador to Congress. So, the question we asked this hour is: If White House Chief of Staff Andy Card is not the only one to go, who should be next?
Lora writes from Tucson, Arizona: "John Ashcroft was replaced by the man who brought us torture of prisoners of war. And now the president's chief of staff has been replaced by the man who brought us record national debts. not sure if we can afford to replace anybody else."
Sonya in Oregon: "Changing the doorman doesn't change what is going on behind the door."
Betty in Calhoun, Georgia, writes: "The one who should have been replaced, the first to go, was Karl Rove."
Eileen in Alexandria, Virginia: "Rumsfeld should be next. He has done enough damage. And since he's arrogant enough to believe he hasn't made any mistakes in our policy in Iraq, it's not likely he's going to make any changes in the right direction."
Mark in Boxborough, Massachusetts: "The only way for things to improve is for Bush to go. But that would just leave us with Dick Cheney, who, if you will, has been pretty much confirmed as a one-man weapon of mass destruction. So, Cheney needs to be next to go."
There is precedent for this. Before Nixon was forced to resign, they got Spiro Agnew first. And he never shot anyone.
And, finally Eric writes from Dallas, Texas, about the crossword puzzle. First, he says: "The next person to go should be the first -- the next one who says Americans don't want to do those jobs, or there are jobs that Americans won't do."
And, then, on the subject of the crossword puzzle, he says: "I agree, it is a shameless promotion. However, up the ante to a dinner with Jacki Schechner, and I'm in."
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: I don't know if Jacki would go for that.
BLITZER: Well, we will consult with Jacki, see if she's in...
CAFFERTY: There's an offer on the table.
BLITZER: ... as well, but a challenge for Jacki Schechner. We will ask her.
Jack, thanks very much.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Up next, a long political career, much of it at the side of Ronald Reagan -- we are going to look back at the life of the former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Two key players from the Reagan administration have died. Lyn Nofziger as President Reagan's press secretary. He had a style all his own. He was often described, variously, as rumpled, irrelevant, unorthodox, and fiercely loyal. Lyn Nofziger died of cancer. He was 81 years old.
And former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger also has died. Like Nofziger, he -- he, too, was tied to Ronald Reagan for decades. But Weinberger's legacy of public service was marred at the very end.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONALD REAGAN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are here today to say Godspeed to an old friend, the finest secretary of defense in the history of our nation, Cap Weinberger.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER (voice-over): Caspar Weinberger was best known as secretary of defense in the Reagan administration from 1981 to 1987, the chief architect of Ronald Reagan's military buildup.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASPAR WEINBERGER, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We have made very considerable progress and strides in -- in regaining for America what I think was a -- vitally needed, new, renewed military strength.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Born in San Francisco in 1917, Weinberger served in the California State Assembly. Then California Governor Reagan appointed Weinberger to a variety of posts that eventually led to his position as U.S. secretary of defense.
Weinberger presided over a trillion-dollar defense buildup that tripled the national debt. He doggedly fought against those in Congress looking for places to cut costs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you come back up and...
WEINBERGER: If the...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... give us the benefit of your judgment.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... conform to the budget resolution.
(CROSSTALK)
WEINBERGER: What we have to bear in mind is that the Congress didn't conform to the budget resolution last year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Weinberger shared President Reagan's obsession with the Soviet Union.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAGAN: They are the focus of evil in the modern world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He was the point man for the president's Strategic Defense Initiative, popularly known as Star Wars. Eventually costing more than $30 billion, Star Wars became redundant with the end of the Cold War and was abandoned by the Clinton administration.
Weinberger was caught up in one of the more prominent scandals of the Reagan era, the Iran-Contra affair. Weinberger was charged with lying about whether he knew about a secret Reagan administration plot authorizing the sale of U.S. missiles to Iran, an avowed enemy, and using the money to fund Contra rebels fighting the Nicaraguan government.
After leaving public service, Weinberger became chairman and publisher of "Forbes" magazine, where he wrote frequently on defense and national security issues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAGAN: Courage, constancy, loyalty, together with uncommon brilliance, decisiveness, and determination -- these are the qualities that Cap Weinberger has brought, not only to the Defense Department, but to all the positions that he's held in service to our nation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Caspar Weinberger was 88 years old. His daughter says he died of pneumonia, with his wife of 63 years, Jane, at his side -- Caspar Weinberger, dead.
We are here every weekday afternoon, 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern -- back in one hour, at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. We will have more of the interview, the CNN en Espanol interview, with the president.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
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