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The Situation Room
Tom DeLay To Give Up Congress Seat; Democratic Colleagues Not Rushing to Support Representative Cynthia McKinney; Cardinal Vows To Ignore Laws Criminalizing Aid To Immigrants; Buzz About Katie Couric Moving To CBS
Aired April 04, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you very much, Ali.
And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's stop stories.
Happening now, it's 4:00 p.m. on Capitol Hill where Tom DeLay once ruled with an iron fist. But facing corruption charges and an uphill reelection fight, the former majority leader now says he will quit Congress. Are fellow Republicans really breathing sighs of relief?
Republicans want to bestow official praise on a Capitol Hill police officer after a confrontation with a Democratic Congresswoman. Cynthia McKinney has no trouble standing up for herself, but is she standing all alone?
And it's 4:00 p.m. in New York City. For years she has been getting up very early in the morning to anchor NBC's "Today Show." But is Katie Couric about to move to the evening shift over at CBS News?
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
There was fear and trembling on Capitol Hill when Tom DeLay was the House majority leader. They called him "The Hammer" but last year, corruption charges forced him to give up that post and now the Texas Republican says he'll give up his seat in the U.S. Congress. We have several reporters standing by, our senior political analyst Bill Schneider, our White House correspondent Ed Henry.
Let's go to the Hill first. Our Congressional correspondent Dana Bash standing by with the latest -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Tom DeLay just arrived back here on Capitol Hill within the last hour, and it was quite a scene. The -- his office certainly understands the power of a picture, the power of an image, and they had some young supporters lined up, you see along the side of the wall for Tom DeLay to come back.
Clearly the image there is set to show a political hero, not a disgraced politician. That is exactly what they set up there. And despite the very strong feelings, Wolf, about Tom DeLay on both sides of the aisle, it is very clear that there is a sense here today that this is the end of an era.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): In the end, he bowed to political reality but not without one more blast of trademark Tom DeLay defiance.
REP. TOM DELAY (R), TEXAS: I refuse to allow liberal Democrats an opportunity to steal this seat with a negative personal campaign.
BASH: His resignation was rooted in the vote counting skills that made him the legendary master of the House. A personal calculation this time, he could lose his own re-election and contribute to losing the 12-year-old GOP majority in a House he worked so hard to win and maintain.
DELAY: I started looking at it. We ran a poll. It showed that I had a 50/50 chance of winning.
BASH: DeLay was forced out of his leadership position seven months ago after being indicted in Texas for allegedly breaking state campaign finance laws. Since then, two former close aides pleaded guilty to corruption charges in the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal. Federal prosecutors have not charged DeLay with any wrongdoing in that case. He insist he'll be vindicated.
DELAY: I have no fear whatsoever about any investigation into me or my personal or professional activities.
BASH: But Democrats who have made him the poster child of their campaign against what they call the "GOP culture of corruption" are sticking with their message.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: So this isn't just about Tom DeLay, although he's the ringleader. It's about the Republicans in Congress who enabled and benefited from this corruption.
BASH: His nickname, "The Hammer," came from a bare knuckles demand for party loyalty, not only from lawmakers, but lobbyists and interest groups he forced to bend to his will.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: He had an uncanny ability to get things done.
BASH: He orchestrated his farewell with the organizational prowess that made him one of Washington's most powerful and feared men.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, no one denies the impact that Tom DeLay had here on Capitol Hill, especially when it came to trying to get some of the very tough parts of the Bush agenda through the Republican Congress, but privately even some of DeLay's Republican colleagues are relieved today, Wolf, some saying that fair or not, he did put a cloud of scandal over the Republicans here on the Hill that they hope now they can get out from under -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Dana, thanks very much. Solid reporting.
Tom DeLay bulldozed a path for the Bush administration's agenda on Capitol Hill, but is the president of the United States sad to see him go? Let's turn to our White House correspondent, Ed Henry.
What is the answer, Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the short answer is no. There are absolutely no tears being shed here at the White House. It's true that back in the president's first term perhaps no man was as responsible as Tom DeLay as the president's legislative victories in the first four years.
But, obviously, in the second term of this presidency, Tom DeLay's influence has been on a downward slide at a time when the president needs friends on Capitol Hill more than ever, but White House advisers point out Tom DeLay was in no position to help this president anymore.
He was radioactive politically. And, in fact, when the duo spoke yesterday by phone, when DeLay gave the president a head's up about this decision, there was no sign that the president tried to talk him out of it.
And when he was asked today for his reaction, the president offered some warm words for Tom DeLay but quickly tried to shift the subject to the rest of the agenda, clearly trying to show the Republican Party is ready to turn the page. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My reaction was it had to have been a very difficult decision for someone who loved representing his district in the state of Texas. I wished him all the very best and I know he's looking forward to -- he's looking to the future.
My own judgment is, is that our party will continue to succeed because we're the party of ideas. And one of the most important ideas is to make sure that healthcare is available and affordable for the citizens of this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: The president was speaking at an event touting his healthcare savings accounts. Scott McClellan, the spokesman, followed that up by saying the president is confident in the rest of the Republican Congressional leadership team. He's confident they can push through the president's agenda.
As for the question about these Democratic charges of a culture of corruption, Scott McClellan says the White House will not be distracted by what he called "side issues."
But the truth of the matter, Wolf, is that this White House is paying very close attention to how that ethics issue will play out in November if -- and that's a big if -- the Republicans were to lose control of Congress. The president's agenda would be even in more peril than it is right now, Wolf.
BLITZER: Any new word, anything going on on staff changes? I know the president was asked about that earlier today. Ed, what is the latest?
HENRY: The president was asked about the status specifically of Treasury Secretary John Snow. A lot of speculation swirling around his future. The president said that he's a, quote, "valuable member of the team." Also said he trusts his judgment.
But it was notable that the president did not make clear that he's going to stick around for a long time but were cautioned by various senior officials not to read too much into those comments, because the president added that Josh Bolten, the incoming chief of staff, is going to take his time.
He's going to do a top to bottom review of White House personnel, perhaps the cabinet and elsewhere. And senior officials say, look, Josh Bolten doesn't take over until April 14th. He's going to do a meticulous job. He's somebody who is known for keeping his cards close to the vest.
And while there's a lot of speculation out there, there are very few people -- maybe just the president and incoming chief of staff -- who really know who is going to wind up going or whether anyone is going to go, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Ed, thank you very much.
What's the fallout from Tom DeLay's fall? Who wins? Who loses? Let's turn to our senior political analyst Bill Schneider -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, Tom DeLay is leaving Congress. So who should be celebrating? Democrats or Republicans?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Democrats have reason to feel exultant over Tom DeLay's resignation. DeLay was the driving force behind the impeachment of President Clinton, the Terri Schiavo intervention, the Texas redistricting that expanded the Republican majority.
But Republicans are probably breathing a sigh of relief. DeLay had become a burden to his party. He would have had trouble holding on to his seat. DeLay read the tea leaves in last month's Republican primary.
DELAY: Yes, I got 62 percent of the vote, but for a 21-year incumbent, 62 percent isn't very good. SCHNEIDER: But that sigh of relief from Republicans may be premature, says a veteran Congress watcher.
STU ROTHENBERG, POLITICAL ANALYST: There are many shoes still to drop. We don't know how big the shoes will be or how loud the noise will be.
SCHNEIDER: Court documents allege that an illegal conspiracy to buy influence with members of Congress was being run by two former DeLay aides and Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff. All of them have pleaded guilty. They are all going to sing.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think that there are other aspects of the Abramoff scandal which will be unfolding in the weeks ahead. I'm sure of that.
SCHNEIDER: Ensuring a steady stream of sensational revelations between now and November 7th.
ROTHENBERG: There are going to be either members of Congress and/or Congressional staffers who are either going to be indicted or are going to have to arrive at some sort of plea bargain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: There's a key difference between Tom DeLay's troubles and those that sent former Congressman Duke Cunningham to jail. Cunningham was personally corrupt. Critics link DeLay to what they call a system of corruption that was more far-reaching and more partisan -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider, thank you very much.
Congressman DeLay is reaching out to his constituents online.
Let's go to our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, you can hear Tom DeLay in his own words in a video to his constituents. It's hosted on a local television Web site but linked through his official Congressional Web site, that one right here.
There's also a message that he e-mailed out to his constituents. That's also posted in full. You can go to the site and read the address to the constituents of the 22nd district of Texas.
A couple of little things to note. He says he has "no fear whatsoever" about any investigation into his personal or professional activities. The other thing he says is that there would be great speculation about this decision and its timing. He put this statement out to clear up any speculation there might be. The other thing he says is that he has no regrets today and no doubt about the future -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Jacki, for that. And this note to our viewers, coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour my interview, a live interview, with Tom DeLay, 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
And in the next hour I'll speak with the chairman of the Democratic Party, Howard Dean. That's coming up in the 5:00 p.m. Eastern hour.
Coming up right now is Jack Cafferty. He's joining us from New York. You're in good company, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: It's busy day. I also will have a couple of thoughts on the resignation of Mr. DeLay but that comes later. Right now we're going to focus on something else.
Some house Republicans are introducing a resolution to praise the Capitol Police. This follows that confrontation last week between a police officer and Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. The measure doesn't specifically mention McKinney or the confrontation, instead it commends the Capitol Police for the professionalism and recognizing the challenge of protecting the Capitol from terrorism while keeping it open to tourists.
McKinney says Capitol police officers have a history of not recognizing here. That's probably why the Congresspeople are supposed to wear the lapel pins that identify them. She wasn't wearing hers. She also didn't go through the metal detector. She chose instead to go around it. She was also told three times to stop and refused to do so according to witnesses who were there.
She also allegedly punched the officer who tried to stop her from entering the building. Now when asked if she hit the cop, her lawyers won't answer the question. But according to McKinney it's all a racial thing. Federal prosecutors are discussing whether to file criminal charges against McKinney.
Here's the question, should Capitol Police be commended after a confrontation with a Congresswoman. E-mail us at caffertyfile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile.
BLITZER: Thank you, Jack. Jack Cafferty, thanks very much. Coming up, we'll have more on the McKinney case. Some of her fellow Democrats are now weighing in on the controversy, but are they backing their colleague? we're going to have the latest developments.
Will Katie Couric become the first woman to solo anchor a nightly newscast on the broadcast networks? We're going to take a closer look at the buzz, the latest buzz, about her possible move to CBS.
Plus, what does Tom DeLay's departure mean for Republican this is November. James Carville and Bay Buchanan, they are standing by for our "Strategy Session." Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Zain Verjee is off today. Betty Nguyen is filling in. She's joining us from the CNN Center with some other news making headlines. BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Wolf. At least a million protesters too to the streets across France today to demonstrate against a new jobs law that makes it easier to fire younger workers. French president Jacques Chirac signed the measure into law on Sunday, but says it won't go into effect until it is amended to reduce the firing period.
Even so though, protesters turned out and it turned violent. They tore down street signs, they threw rocks. You're seeing some of it right now. Riot police responded with tear gas and paint balls. Several hundred people were arrested. We're going to have more on this story next hour right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
For the first time ever Saddam Hussein faces genocide charges. An Iraqi tribunal announced new charges against the former Iraqi leader today. They stem from the killing of thousands of Iraqi Kurds in the 1980s. Iraqi officials say Hussein will be prosecuted separately for the 1988 gassing of 5,000 Kurds.
His current trial for alleged crimes against humanity resumes tomorrow after a three-week recess.
A string of violent attacks in Baghdad to tell you about. Ten people were killed when a suicide bomber blew up a truck outside a city mosque yesterday. It happened as worshipers were leaving evening prayers. Bombings and shootings in the Iraqi capital and in Samarra today killed 18 people. Officials say they also found 16 bodies in Baghdad. The victims were shot to death.
Tennessee's governor is vowing The Volunteer State will rebuild after damaging tornadoes this week. Governor Phil Bredesen got a first-hand look at the destruction today on a helicopter tour. He said he has never seen anything like it. At least 28 people were killed when violent storms tore across eight states Sunday. Dozens of people were injured. Hundreds of homes and businesses are in ruins. A lot of cleanup to do, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much. There are new developments in that scuffle between Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney and a Capitol Hill police officer. McKinney talked about it with us yesterday in an exclusive interview.
Now some Democratic lawmakers are weighing in and not necessarily in support of their colleague. Let's bring in our Brian Todd. He has the latest fall-out. Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, federal law enforcement officials tell CNN, prosecutors are still reviewing the case involving Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney and have not decided yet whether to bring criminal charge against her. This stemming from the altercation last week with the Capitol Hill police officer.
While that decision is pending there are serious questions being raised about support for McKinney on Capitol Hill, especially among the leadership of her own party. House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, who could be a crucial ally on McKinney's behalf, first sought to downplay the incident last week. A short time ago, this was Pelosi's response when she was asked if she thought McKinney should resign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: I think what happened last week was a very unfortunate incident. I think that all members of Congress like to be recognized. That's for sure. And this was a case in which she wasn't. I don't think any of it justifies hitting a police officer. I don't know if that happened. But I'm just saying if it did happen, I don't think it was justified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Now Pelosi does not appear to be alone here. Democratic Congressman Stenny Hoyer of Maryland, he's the minority whip, told CNN radio reporter Lisa Goddard today, it's the responsibility of anyone who visits the Capitol, whether they are members of Congress or visitors to fully cooperate with the Capitol Police.
Hoyer says the police, quote, "Can't possibly know every member and can't possibly know every person who comes through that door." Now it also looks like the Congressional Black Caucus isn't exactly rushing to McKinney's side.
Remember, refresh your memory here, what McKinney said on THE SITUATION ROOM last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CYNTHIA MCKINNEY (D), GEORGIA: The bottom line on this is that it doesn't matter if you're in the United States Capitol or the Georgia Capitol, the issue is racial profiling. And that is something that we're going to have to deal with as a country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Now, contacted by CNN, a top official at the Black Caucus said its chairman, Congressman Mel Watt of North Carolina, would not have any comment on this case because the facts are not established yet.
That black caucus official also had praise for the Capitol Hill Police. We called the Congresswoman's McKinney's office for comment on all of this. Her press aide said he would not remark directly on the Pelosi, Hoyer or comments from the black caucus. He would only say that at the end of the day, they believe it will be proven that she did nothing wrong -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian, thank you very much. Lots more on this story coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour as well.
Still ahead, Democrats take delight as Tom DeLay calls it quit. But Republicans may be resting easier a little bit as well. Who will benefit from DeLay's departure? I'll ask James Carville and Bay Buchanan, that's coming up in our "Strategy Session." And a California cardinal calls on five million Catholics to show solidarity with illegal immigrants. Is he looking for prayers or something more? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony raised some eyebrows when he said he'd break any law against helping illegal immigrants. But right or wrong, Mahony's feelings on the issue are deep and very personal. CNN's Chris Lawrence is joining us now live from Los Angeles with more. Chris?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Cardinal Roger Mahony presides over the largest archdiocese in the country, close to five million Catholics. He's asking all of them to fast and pray tomorrow to show solidarity with illegal immigrants.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice-over): Cardinal Roger Mahony is putting the weight of his Catholic diocese squarely on the side of more liberal immigration policy.
ROGER MAHONY, CARDINAL, LOS ANGELES: This a very important week.
LAWRENCE: His friendship with the United Farm Workers Union is nothing new to this California native.
MAHONY: My father had a poultry processing plant here in Los Angeles area. And in fact, were all Mexican Americans working there.
LAWRENCE: Mahony says his views on immigration started to take shape when he was 12-years-old.
MAHONY: So I was there one day when we had this raid by the border patrol. And these guys come flying in the doors with guns out. I had no idea what was happening, and terrified all of us, something awful. And I just never got that feeling or that image or that day out of my mind ever.
LAWRENCE: He studied for the priesthood in the San Joaquin Valley and practiced his Spanish with the immigrant farm workers. Mahony has said publicly he'll ignore any law that criminalizes assistance to illegal immigrants.
MAHONY: The church has to follow the law like everybody else. But that's not a law now. And I said if it became law, it certainly would be superseded by a higher law.
LAWRENCE: Mahony says strict anti-immigration policies won't work, especially those that try to deport illegals already in the country.
MAHONY: The federal government, the state government and the city government, could not evacuate New Orleans with 250,000 people. And we're now expecting them to pick up 11 million people and deport them? Hello, I don't think so.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: And Cardinal Mahony is by no means a maverick. I spoke with the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and they say many bishops around the country agree with Cardinal Mahony's views and they say that they do support the McCain-Kennedy bill, but very much oppose some of the stricter, harsher punishment in other legislation.
BLITZER: That would be the legislation in the House of Representatives that's already passed that body. Chris, thank you very much for that.
Up next, for Katie Couric, it's been early to bed, early to rise as the long-time anchor of NBC's "Today Show." But is she getting ready to move to the evening shift at the CBS "Evening News?"
Tom DeLay's departure? Are Republicans breathing sighs of relief? Would Democrats really like to see him stick around? I'll ask James Carville and Bay Buchanan. That's coming up in our "Strategy Session."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: And this is just coming into CNN. Democratic Senator Mary Landrieu of Louisiana has just gone on the Senate floor to declare that she is going to block all of the president's appointments unless he moves quickly, expeditiously, to provide billions of dollars for Hurricane Katrina relief in Louisiana and to improve the levee system. She was in the Senate gallery just moments ago. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARY LANDRIEU (D), LOUISIANA: Until significant progress is made I will be compelled to use the power of my office as a senator to hold all executive nominations until we can get a response from the administration. The people of Louisiana have waited so long for accurate numbers, for construction of levees and for adequate funding for housing rebuilding. We simply cannot wait much longer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: No word yet from the White House on this threat from Mary Landrieu to hold up all, all presidential nominations, all presidential appointments until she gets what she wants as far as Hurricane Katrina relief is concerned. We'll watch the story and bring you more as we get it.
In today's "Strategy Session" Congressman Tom DeLay is leaving the Congress. Will the move help Republicans in November elections? Joining us now are CNN political analysts Democratic strategist James Carville and Bay Buchanan the president of American Cause. Thanks very much guys for joining us.
What do you think, is this good, James, is this good for the Democrats that Tom DeLay is leaving? Or is it bad for the Democrats because, as you know he was a lightning rod, a whipping boy, if you will, for a lot of Democrats. And they thought he had an issue exactly where he was.
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Let's start with the obvious, out of Tom DeLay's office was running the greatest criminal enterprise in the history of the United States Congress. His deputy chief of staff and communication director have already pleaded guilty. It is highly likely that his chief of staff will plead guilty.
Whether this goes to DeLay or not let's let the legal system work its way through the process. But that we already know. Now, you could argue that it might help them win one seat in the Texas 22nd if everything stopped now. I don't know if that's the case. I suspect we're just at the beginning point. It is already an enormous scandal. It's got nothing to do but get bigger.
BLITZER: Listen to how he explained his decision in part, Bay. Listen to this.
BAY BUCHANAN, AMERICAN CAUSE: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DELAY: The voters of 22nd District of Texas deserve a campaign about the vital national issues that they care most about and that affect their lives everyday and not a campaign focused solely as a referendum on me
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We heard from our Ed Henry, our White House earlier that they are sort of relieved at the White House. No one is crying about this decision that Tom DeLay has decided to step down.
BUCHANAN: I think that's exactly right I don't think anybody in the Republican leadership over at the Hill is really upset. They recognized what happened. They recognize he could be a focus, a whipping boy. The poster boy for Republicans which might be harmful in November.
BLITZER: So is this good for Republicans?
BUCHANAN: It is good for Republicans. It's not good for DeLay. He the did the right thing. He did recognize it was going to be a referendum. He knew he was going to have to use his campaign funds for his campaign rather than legal funds and he needs it for the legal fees coming up here. He's going lose. It's plus-plus for Tom DeLay. And I think it helps Republicans. Moves us on one step further past the investigation.
CARVILLE: I think the big difference here is that he thinks society should have criminal enterprise run out of his office. Think the Randy "Duke" Cunningham thing is a side issue. They think the Abramoff thing is a side issue. I think Democrats ought to say this goes to the very heart. This is not a side issue. This goes to the very heart of what the Congress is about. I think that's the case to make. Again as I point out this is the largest criminal enterprise in the history of the Congress run out of Tom DeLay's office. That says a lot about the culture of that Congress.
BLITZER: His indictment involves charges in Texas, money laundering.
CARVILLE: But Mr. Scanlon's plea.
BLITZER: Michael Scanlon.
CARVILLE: Already pled guilty. We're not talking about allegations here. We're talking about two guilty pleas. And it's very likely going to be Mr. Buckham is going to plea, more charge to come. Already there's been nothing of this magnitude. So in essence at this point it's a grievously serious thing that shouldn't be a central issue in the campaign.
BUCHANAN: What James is suggesting is that Tom DeLay is guilty by association. And we in this country know that's not the case. Nothing that's come out so far suggests that Tom DeLay is even a target of the investigation. Sure, I would not like all those around me to be being indicted or pleading guilty. It'd make me a little nervous but it doesn't mean Tom DeLay did anything wrong and that's something we should remember.
And secondly, if the Democrats want to make this the case, going to try to make corruption this overreaching issue in this campaign and certainly a legitimate effort, it would be smart politics if indeed none of the indictments fall on Democratic heads which we also do not know is going to happen.
CARVILLE: Wolf, what find amazing here is not one Republican has sort of expressed -- DeLay has not expressed anger -- I can't believe I had crooks to two people closest to me were out and out felons. That nobody in the Republican Party has said, you know what, I'm embarrassed that in the majority leader's office, an elected position within the republican caucus that a criminal enterprise is being run in opposition to what is good for this country.
Every Republican has come and said, oh, this is nothing. This doesn't do this. It doesn't do that. You know what? That is going to be a losing strategy.
BLITZER: He's referring to those of our viewers that aren't familiar with what has happened in recent days. Tony Rudy and Michael Scanlon, two former top aides to Tom DeLay, they have now both decided to plea not guilty and cooperate with federal prosecutors in their investigation. We don't know where that investigation is going to lead but it certainly involves the Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff who himself pleaded guilty and is cooperating with federal prosecutors right now as well.
BUCHANAN: And there has been a number of congressman and senator whose took money from Abramoff who have been very out raged in the kind of activity he was. These guilty pleas are very recent. And I think you will see others expressing that.
I as a Republican will tell you right now. I think it is outrageous that this was going on. If Tom DeLay did not know about it, as he did, I don't understand how that could happen. A certainly hope other people in Congress and the Senate become a little closer - become more aware of what's going on in their own offices.
BLITZER: He told our sister publication "Time Magazine," Tom DeLay, he said, "I just felt I didn't want to risk the seat and that I can do more on the outside of the House than I can on the inside right now." Howard Dean the chairman of the Democratic Party said this, listen to what he said --
Let me read it to you. "Delay is a symptom of a larger disease. A sick Republican culture of corruption that touches everyone who took his dirty money, voted for his corrupt leadership or sat silently while their party has sold our government to the highest bidder." Bay, those are strong words from Howard Dean.
BUCHANAN: There's no question they are strong words. There is -- there is cultural corruption is a legitimate charge to be made. We'll see how far it reaches. Wherever it reaches, it is an outrage and those people should be thrown out and policy should change. I think the rules and regulations of the Senate and House should be changed dramatically. I don't see it happening. I think that's a mistake.
But the bottom line, if the Democrats think they are somehow removed from any corruption charges, the American people don't buy that for a minute. And secondly you have to win and you have to beat people as vulnerable as Republicans might be with somebody and with some ideas. And they don't have either.
BLITZER: And that's a good point because you yourself write in your book with Paul Begala that the Democrats need to come up with some ideas, come up with a strategy to deal with. Can't just talk about Tom DeLay.
CARVILLE: Let me give you an example. The national security paper the Democrats came out with was an outstanding thing. I've gone through it. They had a lot of outstanding things there. At some point -- and no one has been more critical than Paul and I.
At some point when something is starting to change, I think there's real effort and evidence that is starting to change, that the Democrats are starting to do that. So we got to acknowledge the fact that they are moving on some pretty specific things in specific areas. And I suspect there's going to be more to come.
BLITZER: Let me ask you on the subject I mentioned at the top of this segment, Mary Landrieu the Democratic senator from your home state of Louisiana saying I'm going to block all these presidential appointments until I get some satisfaction on money that the president can fund to rebuild the levees and deal with Hurricane Katrina she says in a much more robust manner. Is this smart?
CARVILLE: You know what? I'm going out on to New Orleans tomorrow to talk to a -- my cousin, is part of and I think that the frustration down there is so deep after six times being told we'll do whatever it takes. Now we see the Corps of Engineers said this, it's going to be 30 billion and whatever.
And I think Senator Landrieu is doing what any passionate senator would do at a point like this. I'm going to get some attention to this. We've listened and listened and nothing's happened. Every time we get a different story. You know what? I'm going to get somebody's attention. I think she's a pretty good thing. She's a lot feistier and tougher than people give her credit for. And I would say, like you say, you go girl!
BUCHANAN: I think as a senator she is using her power to help her people, her constituents. I think there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's very smart. If she hangs in there and does it we have major appointments that get held up because of this. I think the American people will turn on her and on the Democratic Party. Because they will feel that enough is enough. We should be doing -- spending our money wisely and carefully not throwing it down there.
CARVILLE: Again, we're almost at hurricane season now and everybody has gotten jacked around in this deal to some extent or another. And I think she is sitting down there -- a lot of people said, fine, we keep getting a different story. They said come up with a plan, we came up with a plan. Representative Baker came with his housing plan and they rejected that. I think that people in Louisiana want some attention drawn to this. This could be the first shot.
BLITZER: James and Bay, we've got to leave it there. Thanks to both of you.
BUCHANAN: Sure.
CARVILLE: Thank you.
BLITZER: And coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM, he was one of the most powerful republicans in congress but is Tom DeLay's resignation good or bad for the Democrats? We're going to have more on that. I'll speak live with the Democratic Party chairman Howard Dean. I'll get his reaction to DeLay's stunning announcement. That's coming up in the next hour right here live in THE SITUATION ROOM.
And is Katie Couric really leaving NBC's early shift for evenings over at CBS? We're checking out the scoop on Katie's possible career move. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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BLITZER: The bigger they are the harder they fall. Tom DeLay was known as "The Hammer" when he was the House majority leader. Now plagued by corruption charges he says he will quit Congress altogether. But DeLay is only the latest leader to take a tumble. Let's bring in our senior analyst Jeff Greenfield. He is joining us from New York -- Jeff.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN ANALYST: Well, Wolf, one of the most powerful leaders of Congress, as you say, is leaving under fire. That's not only a big story in itself but also a sign of a striking change in our political process. Once upon a time the most powerful members of Congress were relatively immune to challenge but in more recent years the watchword has come from Mr. Shakespeare, "Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD (voice-over): This is Joe Cannon, Uncle Joe they called him. As speaker of the house at the start of the 20th century he used and abused so much power that the House revolted in 1910, stripping him of much of his clout.
But it took 79 years for another House Speaker, Jim Wright to be brought down. He resigned his post and his House seat after Republican back benchers led by Newt Gingrich leveled a series of ethic charge against him. And house majority whip Tony Coelho, whose finances became the target of inquiry, also left the House.
Wright's successor, Tom Foley, fared no better. Not only did he lose the speaker's post when Republicans won the House in 1994, he lost his own House seat. The first speak tower suffer such an indignity since 1862. Foley's successor was Newt Gingrich, a congressman who led the ethics attacks against Democrats.
But Gingrich himself was the target of an ethics investigation over fundraising. He was forced to pay a large fine. Was almost ousted by his fellow Republicans in a coup and after Republicans suffered losses in the 1998 midterms, Gingrich resigned.
His successor was supposed to be Bob Livingston, chair of the Appropriations Committee. But in late 1998 in the midst of impeachment proceedings against President Clinton, Livingston, accused of his own sexual misconduct, dramatically announced to the House that he will resign.
BOB LIVINGSTON, FORMER REPRESENTATIVE: I have hurt you deeply and I beg your forgiveness.
GREENFIELD: And the Senate hasn't provided security for its leaders lately. Trent Lott was forced from his post-in 2002 after suggesting the country might had been better off had it elected segregationist Strom Thurmond as president.
SEN. TRENT LOTT (R), MISSISSIPPI: And if the rest of the country followed our lead we wouldn't have had all of the problems.
GREENFIELD: And in 2004 Tom Daschle became the first party leader in the Senate in more than 50 years to lose a reelection effort.
(END VIDEOTAPE) GREENFIELD: It really is a measure of how Washington changed. The one-time assumption of civility, of political adversaries of remaining friends and colleagues after hours is pretty much gone. If the other side thinks you can bring you down it just doesn't matter how high up you are -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jeff, thank you very much.
Up next in THE SITUATION ROOM. Tom DeLay dropped political bombshell. He's leaving Congress. Why is he doing it? I'll talk with the former House majority leader himself. That's coming up at 7:00 p.m. Eastern live right here in THE SITUATION ROOM. My conversation with Tom DeLay.
And is Katie Couric now ready to change channels? We're checking out whether she really may be quitting her long-time gig over at NBC's "Today" show to anchor the "CBS Evening News."
Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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BLITZER: There's lots buzz about NBC's Katie Couric possibly taking over Dan Rather's old job at "CBS Evening News." She would be the first woman ever to solo anchor a flagship network newscast on one of the three broadcast networks. The "Washington Post" media critic and the host of CNN's RELIABLE SOURCES Howard Kurtz has been working his sources on this story.
Howie, a lot of people simply assume it's a done deal, that Katie Couric becomes the new anchor of the "CBS Evening News" replacing Bob Schieffer, who has been anchoring for the past year. Is it a done deal?
HOWARD KURTZ, "WASHINGTON POST": It's now a done deal, Wolf. I reported all the pieces were in place. Katie is leaving NBC which is a big deal because of her role on the morning show. "Today" show has been in first place for ten years with her as the co-anchor and it's a very big deal for CBS because their evening newscast has been mired in third place for a long time. So they're not only getting the first woman solo anchor but probably the most famous woman in television to try to reinvigorate that newscast.
BLITZER: Although the CBS evening newscast has done a lot better over the past year with Bob Schieffer at the helm.
KURTZ: Absolutely. And there are people at CBS who wish that Bob Schieffer would stay at the helm. They like the way he has spotlighted the correspondents. They like the conversational style he has brought to it. But he's 69. Says doesn't want to do it forever. He's graciously going to make way for Ms. Couric.
BLITZER: Katie has been fabulous as a morning host as the co- anchor of the "Today" show. Do those skills necessarily translate into an evening newscast. KURTZ: That's a $20 million question, $20 million being about the amount of money she will make on average each year. It's an open question. I mean, obviously she is not going to sing and dance and go out and do the weather in Times Square at 6:30 at night.
I think what will happen is, if CBS is smart, they will change the newscast just as they changed it from Rather's style to Schieffer's to accommodate her talent. Probably more live interviews. Probably take the show on the road more so that she can bring some of that personality that people like in the morning to an evening newscast. But there are others that think once the curiosity factor fades that maybe it won't be as big a smash success as some people are betting.
BLITZER: What are you hearing about the "Today" show? Who takes over for Katie?
KURTZ: That is really important because of the ratings was between "Today" and "Good Morning America" on ABC which is making progress. NBC, this is how I knew that NBC was prepared to say goodbye to Katie. They offered her job to Meredith Vieira, who once worked at "60 Minutes," now the co-host of ABC's "The View" as well as "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire."
I don't think she'll be giving away any money on the "Today Show" if she does this but she has not made up her mind. She is agonizing over this. In part for family reasons. And that's going to be the other big piece here.
Because for you and I, Wolf, whoever is the evening news anchor, that's the "It" job. That's the really prestigious job in television. Almost as big a deal as being in THE SITUATION ROOM. But morning television is where the networks now make their money. Those are the big gold mines. So from a financial point of view NBC probably as worried as anything else about keeping "Today" on top of the ratings heap.
BLITZER: We want to wish Katie only the best. Bob Schieffer only the best. Meredith Vieira, if she takes that job, only the best as well. Of course to you, Howie, we always wish you only the best. Howie Kurtz, thanks very much for joining us.
And if you don't know should know Howie anchors our RELIABLE SOURCES every Sunday morning. Our excellent program on the news media 10:00 a.m. Eastern every Sunday right here on CNN. Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Tom DeLay says Democrats may have a tougher time recapturing Congress without him as a target. Is he right? The chairman of the Democratic Party, Howard Dean is standing by. I'll ask him what he thinks. That live interview coming up in our next hour.
And do you think Capitol Hill police deserve praise after an officer's alleged confrontation with Georgia Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney? Jack Cafferty has been going through your email. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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BLITZER: Let's check in with Betty Nguyen at the CNN global headquarters once again for a closer look at some other stories making news. Hi, Betty.
NGUYEN: Hi there, Wolf. Seven current and former Colombian law enforcement officers have been indicted in an alleged scene to allegedly smuggle millions of dollars of cocaine from Bogota into Mexico and the U.S. on airplane flights. U.S. officials say the police officers are in custody in Colombia.
A Colombian airline employee is also under arrest. A Colombian drug cartel allegedly recruited the officers. Now the arrests are part of the joint investigation by the Drug Enforcement Administration and Colombian and Mexican officials.
Well, Delta Airline pilots have voted overwhelmingly to authorize a strike against the carrier. There's no date set yet on any walk- out. Cash strapped Delta wants to throw-out the pilot's contract and impose pay and benefit cuts. The pilot's union says it will strike if that happens. An arbitration panel must decide by April 15, tax day, whether to avoid the pilot's contract.
How much information should sexual partners be required to tell each other about their past sexual history? Pretty interesting. That is the issue of a key case before the California Supreme Court today. A woman claims that her apparently healthy husband infected her with the AIDS virus. She is seeking damages. Her husband says requiring an infected partner to disclose details of his sexual history would step on privacy rights.
And this just in to CNN, singer Hank Williams Jr.'s publicist says the entertainer surrendered today in Memphis on arrest warrant accusing him of assaulting a waitress. There's a mug shot right there. Williams turned himself into the Shelby County Sheriff's Office today. Williams is accused of calling the waitress names, asking to kiss her and then lifted her off the ground in a choke hold. That's according to the Associated Press. The singer denies it -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Betty, thank you very much. Right now top officials over at the Departments of Defense and State are testifying on Capitol Hill. The hearing is addressing how the government can improve coordination among its agencies in the war on terror. In a new report this very same issue is being raised in the area of port security. Get some more from our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, this report has just been issued from the Department of Justice's Office of the Inspector General. This is the office that conducts internal audits. This one is specifically on the FBI's efforts to protect the nation's seaports and what it states in the report is that in the result of a maritime incident it may result in confusion and interagency conflict.
The report looks at the overlap between the FBI and also the Coast Guard. It cites a training example last year when the two agencies were training together and the Coast Guard said the FBI repeatedly blocked their efforts. The FBI has responded to this report saying they are actively working with the U.S. Coast Guard to resolve potential cooperation issues -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Abbi, for that. Let's go back to New York and Jack with the "Cafferty File."
CAFFERTY: I thought the homeland security thing was supposed -- the Department of Homeland Security was supposed to solve all the programs. Wasn't that your understanding?
BLITZER: It was supposed to but guess what, Jack. Didn't do it.
CAFFERTY: Government at work. House Republicans, Wolf, introducing a resolution to praise the Capitol Police in Washington following the confrontation between an officer and the Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. The measure doesn't specifically mention the confrontation but it commends the Capitol Police for the professionalism.
The question is, Should the Capitol Police be commended after the confrontation with the congresswoman. Howard in Elyria, Ohio is how I think you say it.
"Yes, Jack, the Capitol Police should be highly commended for their action pertaining to this congressional, publicity-seeking twit who knows very well what she was doing."
John in Manassas, Virginia. "If it had been a terrorist that slipped by security, the officer would have lost his job. As is frequently the case, our pompous politicians feel as though they are above the law. Look closely at Cynthia McKinney and Tom DeLay. This is your Congress, America.
Mark in Milwaukee. "Jack, I think it's sad the U.S. Capitol Police can fail still to recognize a U.S. Representative who has been in office since 1992. Not to say our elected representatives are above the law, but they are not threats to our security. They are on our side. McKinney has expressed her regret over the situation. It's done."
Shawn in California: "McKinney cannot solve a problem without injected race into it. McKinney states there's a problem with Capitol security. If there is, where's the outrage from the other 41 black Congress members? Where's the outrage from the rest of Congress? The only people who came to her defense are lawyers and activists like Harry Belafonte and Danny Glover. You can only cry wolf so many times before people ignore you."
And, finally, Paul in Bloomington, Indiana: "Maintaining the security of a government building should be more important than making sure nobody gets their feelings hurt" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, thank you very much.
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